If Fat Lever played in :lol today's NBA

[ambchang]

He would be able to average a triple double.

Just look at his 88-89 season:
19.8ppg, 9.3 rpg, 7.9apg, .457/.348/.785, 2.7 steals.

Per 100 possessions:
23.2/11.8/8.3/2.7, 111 ORtg, 104DRtg

Advanced stats:
20.6 PER, .161 ws/48, 5.7BPM, 5.3VORP

If he played in :lol today's NBA, with the lax perimeter defensive rules, assists for everything scorekeeping, and faster pace, he would easily average a triple double. The difference he would have with Westbrook though is that Lever would actually lead his team to wins.

[lefty]

Fat lever owuld have been a better RW tbh

[Clipper Nation]

Fat Lever couldn't even average a triple-double in the '80s, when teams played at a faster pace on average than they do today, zone defenses were still illegal and he played in Doug Moe's gimmick system that inflated the stats of everyone on those Nuggets teams. There's no chance in hell he would average one today.

[Killakobe81]

Fat Lever couldn't even average a triple-double in the '80s, when teams played at a faster pace on average than they do today, zone defenses were still illegal and he played in Doug Moe's gimmick system that inflated the stats of everyone on those Nuggets teams. There's no chance in hell he would average one today.

What the fuck?!
I love and defend the 80s but this is at least the third time today CN has made a statement i agree with ...change in the world . Maybe Trump can make the NBA forum great again, along with America.

Me? Im still gonna grab em by the pussy.

[313]

Fat Lever couldn't even average a triple-double in the '80s, when teams played at a faster pace on average than they do today, zone defenses were still illegal and he played in Doug Moe's gimmick system that inflated the stats of everyone on those Nuggets teams. There's no chance in hell he would average one today.
This. If he couldn't average a triple double in the 80s, then he damn sure isn't doing it today.

:lol yesterday's nba

also doesn't Westbrook have a 30 PER right now?

[ambchang]

:lol today's NBA fans. The nuggets and thunder play at a very similar pace and the league and those respective teams average similar rebounds a game. If the nuggets were to get out of the way to feed lever rebounds like what the thunder are doing to feed Westbrook, there's no doubt he would have made up that 0.7 rebounds.

Zone defense also promote ball movement and would have helped lever get more assists. Today's stat keeping would most definitely helped lever get more assists. Not to mention the crazy OKC system of Westbrook dominating the ball just artificially inflates his numbers.

As for scoring, lever would probably score less due to the zone and not being a ball hogging stat padder. But would still have double digit scoring.

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lol yesterday's asians

[Clipper Nation]

:lol today's NBA fans. The nuggets and thunder play at a very similar pace
This year's Thunder play at a pace of 97.5. That's the ninth-highest pace in today's league.

The Nuggets never dipped below triple digits in pace during Lever's six seasons there. In an era where the league-average pace hovered around 100 (unlike this year, where the league-average pace is only 96.3), the Nuggets were always the fastest-paced team.


Zone defense also promote ball movement and would have helped lever get more assists.
Doug Moe's gimmick system promoted ball movement, too. Players were given up to two seconds to hold the ball and shoot or else they had to pass. Lever still never averaged double-digit assists, even in a faster-paced era and a system that inflated the players' offensive numbers as much as possible by design.


Today's stat keeping would most definitely helped lever get more assists.
Yesterday's stat-keepers would inflate players' stats on purpose all the time. Just ask Nick Van Exel:

http://deadspin.com/5336974/an-assist-for-nick-van-exel-how-an-nba-scorekeeper-cooked-the-books

:lol Yesterday's NBA
:lol Yesterday's NBA fan

[Clipper Nation]

The real question is, if Russ is averaging a triple double in today's league, what kind of stats would he be putting up in yesterday's NBA with no zone defense and a much faster pace of play? Especially in Doug Moe's gimmick system. His statlines would make Wilt's look pedestrian.

[DAF86]

He would be able to average a triple double.

Just look at his 88-89 season:
19.8ppg, 9.3 rpg, 7.9apg, .457/.348/.785, 2.7 steals.

Per 100 possessions:
23.2/11.8/8.3/2.7, 111 ORtg, 104DRtg

Advanced stats:
20.6 PER, .161 ws/48, 5.7BPM, 5.3VORP

If he played in :lol today's NBA, with the lax perimeter defensive rules, assists for everything scorekeeping, and faster pace, he would easily average a triple double. The difference he would have with Westbrook though is that Lever would actually lead his team to wins.

You shitted on your own thread with that bit. I mean, the whole premise of the thread is very shaky in itself but that ignorant shit right there just made it absolutely impossible for you to save face. Just take the L and live to fight another day, tbh.

[Kawhitstorm]

Fat Lever = '13-'14 Lance Stephenson :wakeup

[ambchang]

This year's Thunder play at a pace of 97.5. That's the ninth-highest pace in today's league.

The Nuggets never dipped below triple digits in pace during Lever's six seasons there. In an era where the league-average pace hovered around 100 (unlike this year, where the league-average pace is only 96.3), the Nuggets were always the fastest-paced team.[/quote]

My bad on that one, read the wrong number.

Regardless, the point is around rebounds. The share of available rebounds are about the same, and if the Nuggets were to just space out and let Fat get his rebounds, like what OKC is doing, he would make up that 0.7 difference easily.



Doug Moe's gimmick system promoted ball movement, too. Players were given up to two seconds to hold the ball and shoot or else they had to pass. Lever still never averaged double-digit assists, even in a faster-paced era and a system that inflated the players' offensive numbers as much as possible by design.

If the ball don't stick, then Fat ain't getting the assists. With that usage rate Westbrook is getting in which every single possession goes through his hands, Fat would make up that 2.1 assists.



Yesterday's stat-keepers would inflate players' stats on purpose all the time. Just ask Nick Van Exel:

http://deadspin.com/5336974/an-assist-for-nick-van-exel-how-an-nba-scorekeeper-cooked-the-books

:lol Yesterday's NBA
:lol Yesterday's NBA fan

That actually started the trend, and it became the norm now. Only problem, Nick Van Quick wasn't playing in 88-89.


The real question is, if Russ is averaging a triple double in today's league, what kind of stats would he be putting up in yesterday's NBA with no zone defense and a much faster pace of play? Especially in Doug Moe's gimmick system. His statlines would make Wilt's look pedestrian.

He'd be a rich man's Dennis Hopson. Athletic player with no brains, but he does have more mental toughness though. Perhaps he could be a Clyde Drexler type player or something. Speaking of which, Drexler would also average a triple-double, or close to one, in :today's NBA. He averages 20+ multiple seasons, he once averaged 8 apg as a shooting guard, and routinely gets 6+ as a SG with Terry Porter being the point, he gets 6 to 8 rebounds playing with a frontcourt that actually rebounds instead of box out the opponents for their guards to stat-pad.


You shitted on your own thread with that bit. I mean, the whole premise of the thread is very shaky in itself but that ignorant shit right there just made it absolutely impossible for you to save face. Just take the L and live to fight another day, tbh.

My bad on that one, but that one. But still doesn't change the fact that Fat would make up that 0.7 rebounds with that OKC system.

[Killakobe81]

These dudes don't know Amb very well he ain't never taking a L and living to fight another day ... my ninja goes down with the ship always...I may not always agree with my boy but I would absolutely want him in my fox hole there is no quit or bitch to him even though he did have some feminine takes a few years back

Even when he loses he still wins.

[ambchang]

These dudes don't know Amb very well he ain't never taking a L and living to fight another day ... my ninja goes down with the ship always...I may not always agree with my boy but I would absolutely want him in my fox hole there is no quit or bitch to him even though he did have some feminine takes a few years back

Even when he loses he still wins.

Right back at you my pal. These guys don't know the glorious 80s like we do.

[100%duncan]

These dudes don't know Amb very well he ain't never taking a L and living to fight another day ... my ninja goes down with the ship always...I may not always agree with my boy but I would absolutely want him in my fox hole there is no quit or bitch to him even though he did have some feminine takes a few years back

Even when he loses he still wins.

:lol

[jeebus]

Avery Johnson would average 20/10/10/5 in today's NBA. God help the rest of the league if he learned how to shoot too.

[Killakobe81]

Right back at you my pal. These guys don't know the glorious 80s like we do.

No doubt ...fat lever outside of bird and magic was the triple double guy ...to me it seemed When bird and magic did it was more organic but they also had the better teams. Good player though...

[140]

These dudes don't know Amb very well he ain't never taking a L and living to fight another day ... my ninja goes down with the ship always...I may not always agree with my boy but I would absolutely want him in my fox hole there is no quit or bitch to him even though he did have some feminine takes a few years back

Even when he loses he still wins.
EDIT: nah too easy

[Killakobe81]

EDIT: nah too easy

Funny I figured someone would take that out-of context but good 2 see you display some restraint...

[Clipper Nation]

Regardless, the point is around rebounds. The share of available rebounds are about the same, and if the Nuggets were to just space out and let Fat get his rebounds, like what OKC is doing, he would make up that 0.7 difference easily.
Fat was a good rebounder for a guard, but his rebounding numbers were still a little inflated by the fast pace at which the Nuggets played as well as the fact that his teammates were all soft on the boards.

For the record, OKC isn't just "letting" Westbrook get his rebounds in order to pad his stats. It's a purposeful strategy that a lot of teams use with their guards now. The goal is to get the ball in Westbrook's hands as quickly as possible so he can initiate the offense. If you're going to lodge that against Russ, then you have to be consistent and lodge Moe's gimmick system against Fat.



If the ball don't stick, then Fat ain't getting the assists. With that usage rate Westbrook is getting in which every single possession goes through his hands, Fat would make up that 2.1 assists.
Fat didn't have Westbrook's usage rate, but he had the benefit of a lot more possessions every game than Russ has and still couldn't ever average double-digit assists.


That actually started the trend
If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.


He'd be a rich man's Dennis Hopson. Athletic player with no brains, but he does have more mental toughness though.
:lmao


Perhaps he could be a Clyde Drexler type player or something.
You say that like being a champion, a Hall of Famer and one of the greatest to ever play your position is a bad thing.

[ambchang]

Fat was a good rebounder for a guard, but his rebounding numbers were still a little inflated by the fast pace at which the Nuggets played as well as the fact that his teammates were all soft on the boards.

:lol Fat once put up 11.8 rebounds per 100 possessions. Westbrook was putting up 11.3 last year, and 15.1 this year simply because the entire OKC philosophy was to let him get rebounds. Not to mention that is more than Harden is getting this year. That's the fourth highest rebounds/100 possessions by a pure guard in NBA history. :lol good.


For the record, OKC isn't just "letting" Westbrook get his rebounds in order to pad his stats. It's a purposeful strategy that a lot of teams use with their guards now. The goal is to get the ball in Westbrook's hands as quickly as possible so he can initiate the offense. If you're going to lodge that against Russ, then you have to be consistent and lodge Moe's gimmick system against Fat.

Because :lol today's NBA bigs can't even throw a simple outlet pass. How in the world can Moe's up tempo game lead to Fat being the 4th best rebounding guard in NBA history?


Fat didn't have Westbrook's usage rate, but he had the benefit of a lot more possessions every game than Russ has and still couldn't ever average double-digit assists.

Because the ball is not always with Fat, it is always with Westbrook.



If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Show it otherwise.



:lmao


You say that like being a champion, a Hall of Famer and one of the greatest to ever play your position is a bad thing.

No insult intended. Westbrook is a great guard putting up a historical season. But all this MVP talk is hilarious. Drexler was great, one of my favourite players of all time and it pains me to see him as a commentator, but Westbrook is at best as good as the second best SG in the 80s/90s.

[DMC]

We don't need Fat Lever. We have Fat Parker.

[poeticism707]

What the fuck?!
I love and defend the 80s but this is at least the third time today CN has made a statement i agree with ...change in the world . Maybe Trump can make the NBA forum great again, along with America.

Me? Im still gonna grab em by the pussy.

:rollin :rollin :rollin

[djohn2oo8]

Avery Johnson would average 20/10/10/5 in today's NBA. God help the rest of the league if he learned how to shoot too.
:lol:wow