Trump signs executive order withdrawing US from TPP trade deal

[SnakeBoy]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/23/trump-signs-executive-order-withdrawing-us-from-tpp-trade-deal.html

Finally some real news

[Th'Pusher]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C234_wWWgAA0QWK.jpg

[SnakeBoy]

:toast Good for Bernie

[boutons_deux]

It was dead anyway. But BigCorp/BigPharma will bring similar back later.

[SnakeBoy]

Bernie Sanders supports Trump's TPP order while McCain criticizes opting out
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/23/tpp-trans-pacific-partnership-bernie-sanders-john-mccain

[mingus]

The parallel b/w both as far as trade agreements is why I would've been okay w/ Bernie at the helm. The corporate money mainly driving those interests has buttfucked this country for years. Glad to see shit is changing.

[baseline bum]

Nice move by Trump, fuck the TPP.

[Will Hunting]

:tu glad to see Trump follow through on this. I'm sure if Shillary was elected she would be backpedaling on her election TPP stance right about now.

[Reck]

Good news.

Now let's see if Trump doesn't actually make an even worse deal out of this to benefit his rich friends.

[rmt]

Good news.

Now let's see if Trump doesn't actually make an even worse deal out of this to benefit his rich friends.

How are his rich friends going to help him? It's the voters who'll get him re-elected if he does what he campaigned on and helps the forgotten man/woman.

[baseline bum]

How are his rich friends going to help him? It's the voters who'll get him re-elected if he does what he campaigned on and helps the forgotten man/woman.

:lmao A bunch of billionaires in his cabinet are working for the forgotten man

[z0sa]

:tu glad to see Trump follow through on this. I'm sure if Shillary was elected she would be backpedaling on her election TPP stance right about now.

Yup.

[Warlord23]

This might be an unpopular opinion here but IMO this was a lost opportunity for the US. Corporations are in any case going to try and move jobs to cheaper locations, with or without trade agreements. TPP would at least have set a few common standards for member countries such as minimum wages, occupational safety, patent protection, telecom tarrifs etc.

The relationship between free trade agreements and outsourcing is one of correlation, not causation. Example: the US doesn't have free trade agreements with either India or China, but US corporations outsource heavily to both countries. Populism, however, does not need to adhere to rational arguments.

[boutons_deux]

"set a few common standards" these have been ignored, unenforced in previous trade agreements, it's all bullshit, and BigCorp doesn't care.

BigCorp/capital doesn't give a shit about labor, it's all about exploiting labor

TPP was pushed for BigPharma, ISDS, BigFinance, not for protecting labor.

https://www.warren.senate.gov/files/documents/BrokenPromises.pdf

[hater]

Great news for China they can increase their influence in the Pacific and even make their own version of TPP.

Smart of them to celebrate quietly :lol

[Warlord23]

"set a few common standards" these have been ignored, unenforced in previous trade agreements, it's all bullshit, and BigCorp doesn't care.

BigCorp/capital doesn't give a shit about labor, it's all about exploiting labor

TPP was pushed for BigPharma, ISDS, BigFinance, not for protecting labor.

https://www.warren.senate.gov/files/documents/BrokenPromises.pdf

I like Elizabeth Warren's activism against corporate interests, but in this case she is making perfect the enemy of good. Yes, enforcement of standards is difficult, but the alternative is no standards. With no standards, you get the worst case scenario - like the fire in a Bangladesh garment factory that caused over 100 workers to die.

Corporations aren't going to adhere to standards if their competitors can get away with bad practices. And while there is a tendency to portray all firms as soulless vampires, in my experience many organizations have beefed up their compliance functions in the wake of legislation (E.g client money segregation for banks, labeling and product information standards for pharma etc).

[boutons_deux]

"alternative is no standards" which is just fine with BigCorp

standards, regulations, liveable wages cost money meaning BigCorp will lose profits so foreign factories, 1000s of miles away, have standards.

The whole point of BigCorp off-shoring is to avoid the domestic costs of USA having standards, worker/environmental protections, "somewhat" liveable wages.

BigCorp capitalists seek only more profit, and have no morals or ethics written into their corporate charters. BigCorp is immoral, or at best amoral.

[Chucho]

"alternative is no standards" which is just fine with BigCorp

standards, regulations, liveable wages cost money meaning BigCorp will lose profits so foreign factories, 1000s of miles away, have standards.

The whole point of BigCorp off-shoring is to avoid the domestic costs of USA having standards, worker/environmental protections, "somewhat" liveable wages.

BigCorp capitalists seek only more profit, and have no morals or ethics written into their corporate charters. BigCorp is immoral, or at best amoral.




He said while slurping his Starbucks coffee, listening to his iPod and wearing Jordan sneakers.

Liberals LOVE Blood on their products. Disgusting you are.

[spurraider21]

This might be an unpopular opinion here but IMO this was a lost opportunity for the US. Corporations are in any case going to try and move jobs to cheaper locations, with or without trade agreements. TPP would at least have set a few common standards for member countries such as minimum wages, occupational safety, patent protection, telecom tarrifs etc.

The relationship between free trade agreements and outsourcing is one of correlation, not causation. Example: the US doesn't have free trade agreements with either India or China, but US corporations outsource heavily to both countries. Populism, however, does not need to adhere to rational arguments.
setting up standards for wages, occupational safety, etc for a bunch of countries not including china does next to nothing tbh

different issue/same problem as the kyoto protocol. thats why paris accords were a big deal

[cheguevara]

US designed TPP as a counter balance to China’s economic might (China was excluded from TPP); now they pulled out, China designed RCEP to exclude US instead.

In 2016, prospective RCEP member states accounted for a population of 3.4 billion people with a total Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of $21.4 trillion, approximately 30 percent of the world's GDP.

So half of the world population and 30% of world’s economy will trade freely while American exporters must pay tariff to enter this market.

[cheguevara]

The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) is a so-called mega-regional economic agreement being negotiated between the 10 ASEAN (Association of South-East Asian Nations) governments and their six FTA partners: Australia, China, India, Japan, New Zealand and South Korea.

[boutons_deux]

"US designed TPP as a counter balance to China’s economic might"

That was the smokescreen, the "pivot" bullshit.

The real motivation was enhanced ISDS with more countries, and enhanced patent bullying in more countries.

It wasn't even about lower tariffs because tariffs are already low if existent between the TPP countries. And it certainly wasn't about "improved labor protections" in foreign countries.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/23/trump-signs-executive-order-withdrawing-us-from-tpp-trade-deal.html

Finally some real news


On the basis of size alone, TPP would have been important, the largest regional trade deal in history. It encompassed 12 Pacific countries, including America, Japan and Canada (see chart). Together, they account for two-fifths of the world economy. But what made it all the more significant was its strategic intent. Notably absent from the membership was China. Economically, this made little sense. Studies indicated that including China, the world’s biggest exporter, would have substantially expanded the benefits of TPP. But America wanted to show that it could set Asia’s economic agenda. China might eventually have been invited to join TPP, but only after America had written “the rules of the road”, as its negotiators liked to say.


Rather than a conventional focus on cutting tariffs, TPP emphasised stronger safeguards for intellectual property, the environment and labour rights (detractors felt it went too far on the first and not far enough on the other two). Matthew Goodman of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, a think-tank, considers its collapse a “body blow” to American economic policy in Asia.

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21647330-why-whiff-panic-has-entered-americas-pacific-trade-negotiations-whats-big-deal
http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21710287-big-free-trade-deals-demise-leaves-worrying-void-asia-trading-down

The prime beneficiary of this is China.


Over the years rich countries have cut tariffs to the point where the main obstacles to commerce now lie in regulations that discriminate against foreign companies. TPP took aim at barriers hidden in government-procurement guidelines and investment restrictions. It would have raised the bar for future trade deals, says Jayant Menon of the Asian Development Bank: “That’s where the biggest loss lies.”

Careful what you wish for, Snakeboy, because what will replace it will be even less to your liking, which will be a set of rules dictated by China, that benefit China. I am guessing you are largely ignorant of what the TPP actually is or does.

Trump is seeking to dismantle a lot of the international institutions built by our country over decades, that give us a very large say in what goes on.

Replacing that framework with "bilateral" agreements will mean that large groups getting together that can act as trade blocks will be able to out leverage the US. China is working to build that alternative framework, and Trumps alienation of allies and foes alike will drive other countries to join.

But hey, maybe Teleprompter Boy will surprise us.

[RandomGuy]

"US designed TPP as a counter balance to China’s economic might"

That was the smokescreen, the "pivot" bullshit.

The real motivation was enhanced ISDS with more countries, and enhanced patent bullying in more countries.

It wasn't even about lower tariffs because tariffs are already low if existent between the TPP countries. And it certainly wasn't about "improved labor protections" in foreign countries.




I see you agree with Snakeboy: the TPP is a bad, bad thing.

[Thread]

And that Haley woman, the new UN Ambassador laid the law down this morning. "And for those who do not have our back. We'll be taking notes."

[boutons_deux]

I see you agree with Snakeboy: the TPP is a bad, bad thing.

TPP was designed exclusively by and for BigCorp, BigPharma, BigFinance.

[spurraider21]

randomguy if bernie was elected and withdrew from TPP:

:cheer

[boutons_deux]

I see you agree with Snakeboy: the TPP is a bad, bad thing.

what was good, good, good about TPP?

[SnakeBoy]

I am guessing you are largely ignorant of what the TPP actually is or does.


I don't know nothin about it. All I knows is that Hillary Clinton, the most knowledgeable qualified candidate ever, said it was a bad deal for Murica. So I'm glad Donald Trump took Hillary's advice and cancelled the deal.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Hopefully we can start on getting the curry guzzling injuns and rice-shitting ching-chongers out of our high paying office jobs.

[Spurminator]

984489743005175808

:lol

[Isitjustme?]

It really was a good trade pact

[AaronY]

TPP was designed exclusively by and for BigCorp, BigPharma, BigFinance.
Your knowledge of finance and economy is so retarded

[Pavlov]

TPP good now.

[z0sa]

Fuck.

[AaronY]

Fuck.
You don't like paying less for economic and consumer goods?

[hater]

:lmao trumptards :lmao

Poor idiotic rednecks

[RandomGuy]

It really was a good trade pact

It was.

This reversal is an attempt to unfuck his standing among farmers that took a hit after his fucktarded trade war talk.

Obama negotiated a good deal.

[sickdsm]

It was.

This reversal is an attempt to unfuck his standing among farmers that took a hit after his fucktarded trade war talk.

Obama negotiated a good deal.

Markets were down hard one day. They rebounded fully two or three days later and have been hitting close if not new highs.

[RandomGuy]

Markets were down hard one day. They rebounded fully two or three days later and have been hitting close if not new highs.

Meh, up, down. Where they end up depends on where the trade talks go. Just wait until the Syria strikes, if any. My gut says the coward backs down on that, especially when Russia threatens him with their bookkeepers.

Trump finally realized that the TPP was a bargaining chip. Just took him a year.

His naïvetee and ignorance is appalling, and had led him to own goal after own goal. "America first" has meant "America alone", after alienating ally after ally after potential ally.

He has no clue where the real sources of American power are, and that leads him to view all his problems as nails.

[Spurminator]

:lmao trumptards :lmao

Poor idiotic rednecks

Those people don't understand or give a shit about the TPP.

The real :lmao is the Bernie Bros who voted for Trump over it.

[spurraider21]

Those people don't understand or give a shit about the TPP.

The real :lmao is the Bernie Bros who voted for Trump over it.
:lmao z0sa :lmao

[sickdsm]

Meh, up, down. Where they end up depends on where the trade talks go. Just wait until the Syria strikes, if any. My gut says the coward backs down on that, especially when Russia threatens him with their bookkeepers.

Trump finally realized that the TPP was a bargaining chip. Just took him a year.

His naïvetee and ignorance is appalling, and had led him to own goal after own goal. "America first" has meant "America alone", after alienating ally after ally after potential ally.

He has no clue where the real sources of American power are, and that leads him to view all his problems as nails.
I understand markets go up and down. But where is this hit that most farmers took? Guess I'd need details. The market hasn't responded like the news would like you to believe. If I remember right, November soybeans (number one export of the number one category, ag) at worst was down .56. It finished that day at. 34 down. That was pretty impressive.

[ElNono]

:lmao trumptards :lmao

Poor idiotic rednecks

The TPP was going to kill jobs! :lmao

I'll make a great deal with China :lmao

[z0sa]

You don't like paying less for economic and consumer goods?

So you still believe that lie? You think by and large Americans save money?

Such trade agreements exist only to further enrich businesses at the expense of their American labor force. Businesses love forcing Americans to compete with impoverished ignorant indoctrinated third world laborers. Rather than raise wages to meet the cost of paying Americans a fair wage based upon our standard of living, they “lower” prices by eliminating Westerners from the picture.

The reality is that many Americans see real losses of buying power despite a drop in prices.

Of course, such a system is fatally flawed in that it directly assaults consumers, and threatens the American “way of life.” Potential losses from lack of wages as well as insurmountable backlashes from the serfs are directly offset by the largest corporate (social) welfare system ever implemented.

Our best defense against globalism is refusing to take part. The reality is, we don’t need free trade agreements to acquire cheap labor. Undocumented migrant workers throughout the southern USA may attest to that (which is the primary reason seemingly common sense immigration reform remains impossible - illegal immigrants are very solidly a net positive economically).

[z0sa]

:lmao z0sa :lmao

Mr President:

You had one job.

[AaronY]

So you still believe that lie? You think by and large Americans save money?

Such trade agreements exist only to further enrich businesses at the expense of their American labor force. Businesses love forcing Americans to compete with impoverished ignorant indoctrinated third world laborers. Rather than raise wages to meet the cost of paying Americans a fair wage based upon our standard of living, they “lower” prices by eliminating Westerners from the picture.

The reality is that many Americans see real losses of buying power despite a drop in prices.

Of course, such a system is fatally flawed in that it directly assaults consumers, and threatens the American “way of life.” Potential losses from lack of wages as well as insurmountable backlashes from the serfs are directly offset by the largest corporate (social) welfare system ever implemented.

Our best defense against globalism is refusing to take part. The reality is, we don’t need free trade agreements to acquire cheap labor. Undocumented migrant workers throughout the southern USA may attest to that (which is the primary reason seemingly common sense immigration reform remains impossible - illegal immigrants are very solidly a net positive economically).
90% of manufacturing jobs lost since the 1950s are lost due to automation but no one talks about that because demonizing robots is not as much fun as demonizing China or immigrants. IPhones would cost like $2k if you made them over the same with some of these TVs.


https://www.marketplace.org/2014/05/20/business/ive-always-wondered/how-much-would-all-american-iphone-cost
https://www.ft.com/content/dec677c0-b7e6-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62

[AaronY]

Bringing all manufacturing back here would bring back like 100k jobs and only fuck over everyone who wants to buy a phone or a TV. Retarded

[z0sa]

Bringing all manufacturing back here would bring back like 100k jobs and only fuck over everyone who wants to buy a phone or a TV. Retarded

Automation will within a few decades replace most laborers. For instance, long haul truck drivers will no longer be needed by the end of the the next decade. This will substantially reduce prices and create a cheap labor force without any need for a free trade agreement which purposely fucks workers.

[AaronY]

Automation will within a few decades replace most laborers. For instance, long haul truck drivers will no longer be needed by the end of the the next decade. This will substantially reduce prices and create a cheap labor force without any need for a free trade agreement which purposely fucks workers.
Automation creates new kinds of jobs though. I have a job doing search engine evaluation which helps Google and Bing interpret and check their algorithms. This type of job didn't exist 20 years ago. It's time to move on from manufacturing see what jobs have good outlooks and go into those. Like these coal miners are being offered free training to become nurses which there is a huge demand for but many are refusing training because they think coal is coming back

[spurraider21]

Automation creates new kinds of jobs though. I have a job doing search engine evaluation which helps Google and Bing interpret and check their algorithms. This type of job didn't exist 20 years ago. It's time to move on from manufacturing see what jobs have good outlooks and go into those. Like these coal miners are being offered free training to become nurses which there is a huge demand for but many are refusing training because they think coal is coming back
automation tends to eliminate low skill jobs in favor of technical jobs that often requires degrees/certification. the thing is, the laborers that are getting replaced are often pretty old and aren't really in a position at that age to go back to school and adjust.

[AaronY]

automation tends to eliminate low skill jobs in favor of technical jobs that often requires degrees/certification. the thing is, the laborers that are getting replaced are often pretty old and aren't really in a position at that age to go back to school and adjust.
That's true somewhat but many of these are too proud or stubborn to even try

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-coal-retraining-insight/awaiting-trumps-coal-comeback-miners-reject-retraining-idUSKBN1D14G0 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-coal-retraining-insight/awaiting-trumps-coal-comeback-miners-reject-retraining-idUSKBN1D14G0)

As for long term any job involving computers didnt exist 50 years ago and not all of them are super highly skilled. Same with phones compared to 100 years ago. People were destroying cotton gins when they first came out for taking their jobs. Nobody knows what kinds of jobs will exist in 50 years so I'm not sold on this robot apocalypse. I mean unemployment is like 4% now

[TeyshaBlue]

Just wait until the Syria strikes, if any. My gut says the coward backs down on that, especially when Russia threatens him with their bookkeepers.

Trump finally realized that the TPP was a bargaining chip. Just took him a year..
Don't quit your day job.