Was Duncan really that much better than Robinson?

[DAF86]

Or did he benefit from the circumstances? Had Duncan been the one that had to battle it up on the 90's with subpar supporting casts and Robinson the young stud that joined an already very good team, would we see these two in a different way?

[RD2191]

Yes, he was really better.

[BatManu20]

He was better.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Much better, yes.

[Seventyniner]

David was a better pure scorer, Duncan has the edge basically everywhere else. Especially in leadership.

[TXstbobcat]

Timmy had more of a killer instinct in big playoff moments.

[Solid D]

Robinson was athletically gifted to a level rarely seen before or during his playing days. Some of his plays were breathtaking. On one occasion against Dallas, David blocked a shot and then beat everyone down the floor for a dunk. It was extremely fast and athletic or someone 7'-1". The quadruple double was not a fluke, nor was his NBA scoring title in 1994.

With that said, David was more of a finesse player than was Timmy. He had a thin waist and a much narrower base than Duncan and could be dislodged from an established position in the post moreso than Timmy. Although Hall of Famer Robinson hit many clutch shots, including a huge three against Houston on a Sunday game; by and large, Duncan was a master at executing during the last two minutes of a game. Robinson competed but not with quite the steely-eyed intensity and focus of Timmy.

[DocDoc]

Robinson was athletically gifted to a level rarely seen before or during his playing days. Some of his plays were breathtaking. On one occasion against Dallas, David blocked a shot and then beat everyone down the floor for a dunk. It was extremely fast and athletic or someone 7'-1". The quadruple double was not a fluke, nor was his NBA scoring title in 1994.

With that said, David was more of a finesse player than was Timmy. He had a thin waist and a much narrower base than Duncan and could be dislodged from an established position in the post moreso than Timmy. Although Hall of Famer Robinson hit many clutch shots, including a huge three against Houston on a Sunday game; by and large, Duncan was a master at executing during the last two minutes of a game. Robinson competed but not with quite the steely-eyed intensity and focus of Timmy.


I wonder what position he would play in today's NBA and Spur's team on offense. PF? SF? Could he develop a reliable 3ptr? PG?

[TXstbobcat]

I wonder what position he would play in today's NBA and Spur's team on offense. PF? SF? Could he develop a reliable 3ptr? PG?

Robinson would play center like he did his whole career.

[Spur|n|Austin]

I wonder what position he would play in today's NBA and Spur's team on offense. PF? SF? Could he develop a reliable 3ptr? PG?

huh?

[lefty]

Or did he benefit from the circumstances? Had Duncan been the one that had to battle it up on the 90's with subpar supporting casts and Robinson the young stud that joined an already very good team, would we see these two in a different way?
Good point tbh


What if TD came before Robinson an couldnt win with scrubs like AJ and VDN , then Robinson is drafted and the Spurms win ?

Does Robby takes all the credit?

Good point tbh

[DAF86]

Robinson was athletically gifted to a level rarely seen before or during his playing days. Some of his plays were breathtaking. On one occasion against Dallas, David blocked a shot and then beat everyone down the floor for a dunk. It was extremely fast and athletic or someone 7'-1". The quadruple double was not a fluke, nor was his NBA scoring title in 1994.

With that said, David was more of a finesse player than was Timmy. He had a thin waist and a much narrower base than Duncan and could be dislodged from an established position in the post moreso than Timmy. Although Hall of Famer Robinson hit many clutch shots, including a huge three against Houston on a Sunday game; by and large, Duncan was a master at executing during the last two minutes of a game. Robinson competed but not with quite the steely-eyed intensity and focus of Timmy.

Do you see Duncan ringing in the mid '90s with David's supporting cast?

[apalisoc_9]

Good point tbh


What if TD came before Robinson an couldnt win with scrubs like AJ and VDN , then Robinson is drafted and the Spurms win ?

Does Robby takes all the credit?

Good point tbh

:lol

[tmtcsc]

Yes, without even thinking twice about it. That's no slight on DRob who was a great player...but Timmy was the GOAT at his position and for the team. You never hear about DRob being in anyone's Top 5 of all time or being on the Mt. Rushmore of NBA players.

[apalisoc_9]

Do you see Duncan ringing in the mid '90s with David's supporting cast?

Probably not...The Bulls was stacked. Great role players, two top 10 players one of them was the best.

I suppose you look at 94 - 95.

I could see Duncan winning in 94.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan was better, but Robinson was more genetically gifted(skills + athleticism), tbh..

However, Duncan would have never won with those 90s supporting casts..it isn't a knock on Tim to say that circumstance plays a major role in regards to legacy..whether it's Duncan, Kobe, Dad Killer, Tom Brady, Manning, etc, there's usually a ton of luck involved in being perceived as an all-time great on the highest tier..

The way sports fans and media rank players is extremely flawed:lol

[boutons_deux]

David was EASILY much more athletic, better jumper, better shooter, better shot blocker, but was hampered by a bad back and, for most of his prime career, no Popovich/RCB organization building around him.

[313]

He was the better winner and that's all that matters.

[313]

Yes, without even thinking twice about it. That's no slight on DRob who was a great player...but Timmy was the GOAT at his position and for the team. You never hear about DRob being in anyone's Top 5 of all time or being on the Mt. Rushmore of NBA players.
If Tim got compared to other centers he wouldn't be in many top 3s, maybe top 5

[SnakeBoy]

Prime DRob > Prime TD

[HarlemHeat37]

To be fair, though, Robinson played in an era where nearly 30% of the players were white Americans:lol

It would be like adding a bunch of D1 college players into today's league..

[ambchang]

The one flaw Robinson had was his lack of post game, he was just too light and can easily be dislodged. That didn't work in 90s basketball. He was like a rich man's Garnett. If Robinson played in :lol today's NBA, he'd be a monster for sure against scrubs like Davis and Cousins, Robinson will be schooling them and make them look like puke.

Duncan's offensive game work much better in the era in which he played. He also had a much better supporting cast. Robinson never had a perimeter defender like Bowen or Kawhi, he never had creators like Ginobili or Parker. Speedy Claxton was probably better than Avery Johnson.

Robinson probably wouldn't have won 5 titles in Duncan's situation, he just didn't have the longevity as his game was based much more on athleticism. Robinson couldn't carry a team offensively in a playoff run, but he can certainly do it on the defensive end.'

That said, Duncan probably wouldn't win a single ring in Robinson's shoes. Those 90s Spurs sucked, and they were only "contenders' because of Robinson.

[DJR210]

Fundamentally better, and better post game. It's just my opinion, but Duncan wouldn't have allowed Hakeem to run wild like he did, not taking away anything from Hakeem.

[Jenks]

No he wasn't. Duncan never played on anything less than a championship contender, Robinson played on shit tier teams with shit tier coaching prior to Duncan.

People who say Duncan was a better leader are also ridiculous, Duncan learned how to be a leader from Robinson.

The only thing that would have helped Duncan if you put him on Robinson's early 90s spurs is that he was a much better back to the basket player and a much better passer. Robinson was double and tripled so his numbers went down in the playoffs, so retards called him soft. If Robinson had Ginobili and Parker his postseason numbers would look a lot more like his absurd regular season numbers. Instead he had Avery Johnson and (criminally overrated by spurfan) Sean Elliott.

Robinson's entire legacy got shit on by 1 series where he was hung out to dry 1 on 1 vs Hakeem, but played 1 on 3 on the other end and still managed to put up decent numbers. Really sad that even Spurs fans buy into that shit. Guy has the 4th highest PER of all time with garbage teammates and garbage coaching, while being an incredible leader and role model.

[elbamba]

Who can say? When Robinson played, the center position was stacked in the NBA. Most teams had a quality center. When Duncan played, it seemed for most of his career PF was the most stacked position in the NBA. Not until the latter part did it change to the PG position. David was a top 3-5 center during his prime. There was never a question who the best PF was during Duncan's prime.

One more thing about Duncan. He certainly made his teammates better. Not just Parker and Manu. Tim made role players better, he made Avery a quality PG in 1999. Perhaps guys like Willie Anderson, VDN, and Terry Cummings play better with Duncan. Sean might have had 5 all star seasons with Tim. There is no way to know how good Duncan would have made the Spurs. It is just nonsense to say that the teams from 1993 - 1996 sucked. They were some damn solid teams that just lacked leadership.

[SupremeGuy]

Better athlete? Robinson. Better basketball player? Duncan.

Put Duncan's skill in Robinson's body and you basically get Wilt 2.0. He would have been dropping 50 a night.

[Old School 44]

Robinson was the superior athlete, Duncan was the much better basketball player. Overall Duncan was much better.

[pgardn]

Robinson was the superior athlete, Duncan was the much better basketball player. Overall Duncan was much better.

Yep.

And Duncan mastered the post game, Robinson did not. They were very different types of players with a very different skill set.

[skulls138]

Duncan was better, but Robinson was more genetically gifted(skills + athleticism), tbh..

However, Duncan would have never won with those 90s supporting casts..it isn't a knock on Tim to say that circumstance plays a major role in regards to legacy..whether it's Duncan, Kobe, Dad Killer, Tom Brady, Manning, etc, there's usually a ton of luck involved in being perceived as an all-time great on the highest tier..

The way sports fans and media rank players is extremely flawed:lolYes, any, at least three, championship team has more than one great player. They usually have another great player and great coach. I think thats why someone like Manning didnt fair better, never a great coach, or defense tbh (excuse me, except last year, which may be the best all-time)

[cd98]

I actually think David was a better defender than Tim, but Duncan had a full package of offensive moves, including his ability to score with his back to the basket, where Robinson was stuck with mostly face up drives and elbow jumpers. Duncan was a superior passer, but both were probably more or less equal rebounders. No question Robinson had the more ESPN highlight game. Robinson was a superb finisher and could block a shot to the 8th row.

[skulls138]

Better athlete? Robinson. Better basketball player? Duncan.

Put Duncan's skill in Robinson's body and you basically get Wilt 2.0. He would have been dropping 50 a night.Meh, Duncan was always one of the best players but never got close to scoring titles, unlike Robinson who had better stats. I would say Robinson was Wilt and Duncan, Russell, and not because Duncan had better players, because he didnt, early on, but because Duncan was better leader, better IQ, better clutch and nobody says this but if the scoring gets spread around instead of one dominant player, then its harder to defend.

[Silver&Black Warrior]

No he wasn't. Duncan never played on anything less than a championship contender, Robinson played on shit tier teams with shit tier coaching prior to Duncan.

People who say Duncan was a better leader are also ridiculous, Duncan learned how to be a leader from Robinson.

The only thing that would have helped Duncan if you put him on Robinson's early 90s spurs is that he was a much better back to the basket player and a much better passer. Robinson was double and tripled so his numbers went down in the playoffs, so retards called him soft. If Robinson had Ginobili and Parker his postseason numbers would look a lot more like his absurd regular season numbers. Instead he had Avery Johnson and (criminally overrated by spurfan) Sean Elliott.

Robinson's entire legacy got shit on by 1 series where he was hung out to dry 1 on 1 vs Hakeem, but played 1 on 3 on the other end and still managed to put up decent numbers. Really sad that even Spurs fans buy into that shit. Guy has the 4th highest PER of all time with garbage teammates and garbage coaching, while being an incredible leader and role model.

OH MY GOD PREACH IT MY BROTHA!!!!!!!!!!!! PREACH!!!!!!!!!!! TESTIFY!!!!!!!!!!!! ... HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!! ... AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!! ...*GOSPEL MUSIC PLAYS*

[Phenomanul]

I think Robinson is severely underrated by Spurs fans in general... but especially by millennial Spurs fans who only remember the post-back problems, past-his prime player that David ended up becoming when handing the reigns to Duncan...

Teammates matter. Jordan averaged 37 ppg in 1987 but that Bulls team wasn't even a pretender. It wasn't til' they drafted Pippen and later BJ Armstrong, and obtained Horace Grant that they became a balanced team - one that could actually contend.

[TD 21]

Not that there was a massive gap, but :lmao at this fan base constantly trying to downplay their all-time greatest player.

Robinson scored more, but that was primarily because he had a higher usage rate in their respective prime and was a better free throw shooter. Other than that, the only thing he did better was block shots, but he also played in an era where there was significantly more of them and Duncan was the rare shot blocker who didn't seek them out.

Robinson also didn't come to the league until he was 24 and left it at 37, avoiding what's typically the worst years of a players career, which obviously would have affected all of his averages, both counting and advanced. Also, like Nowitzki, while never playing with a fellow star through his first 8 seasons hurt him as far as team success in the playoffs, it helped in those areas too.

Duncan "benefitted from circumstances" relative to a typical 1st overall or high pick, but the circumstances were overrated. That was an aging team, devoid of anything resembling a go to perimeter creator and from '01-'04, they had no 2nd star period, yet remained perennially elite and won a title in '03 almost entirely because of Duncan.

[coachmac87]

To be fair, though, Robinson played in an era where nearly 30% of the players were white Americans:lol

It would be like adding a bunch of D1 college players into today's league..


Seriously why the fuck are you so racist?

[Phenomanul]

Not that there was a massive gap, but :lmao at this fan base constantly trying to downplay their all-time greatest player.

Robinson scored more, but that was primarily because he had a higher usage rate in their respective prime and was a better free throw shooter. Other than that, the only thing he did better was block shots, but he also played in an era where there was significantly more of them and Duncan was the rare shot blocker who didn't seek them out.

Robinson also didn't come to the league until he was 24 and left it at 37, avoiding what's typically the worst years of a players career, which obviously would have affected all of his averages, both counting and advanced. Also, like Nowitzki, while never playing with a fellow star through his first 8 seasons hurt him as far as team success in the playoffs, it helped in those areas too.

Duncan "benefitted from circumstances" relative to a typical 1st overall or high pick, but the circumstances were overrated. That was an aging team, devoid of anything resembling a go to perimeter creator and from '01-'04, they had no 2nd star period, yet remained perennially elite and won a title in '03 almost entirely because of Duncan.

I tend to agree with what you have stated here.

That said, there is no way Duncan wins with any of Robinson's teams given that the shooters around him still had to knock down their shots... Prior to the MDM by Elliott, all such clutch shots had been clanked by Spurs' shooters.

[TD 21]

I tend to agree with what you have stated here.

That said, there is no way Duncan wins with any of Robinson's teams given that the shooters around him still had to knock down their shots... Prior to the MDM by Elliott, all such clutch shots had been clanked by Spurs' shooters.

Maybe so, but that doesn't obscure the fact that Robinson's play generally worsened in the playoffs and there's no way he wins playing Duncan's role in '03.

[Stand]

Robinson was a monster and it was a pleasure getting to watch him in his prime, but with that said Timmy D was a far superior competitor. There is no way Timmy would have been okay being the Kevin Garnett of that generation and spending his career with a subpar roster. The Spurs would have had to upgrade the roster or he would have bounced.

[Phenomanul]

Maybe so, but that doesn't obscure the fact that Robinson's play generally worsened in the playoffs and there's no way he wins playing Duncan's role in '03.

The real Finals in 2003 were the series against the Lakers and against the Mavericks...

Duncan needed every bit of help (not undermining his greatness) to get by the Mavs (with that three point barrage by Kerr and Stephen Jackson in Game 6). Robinson NEVER had any such help prior to Duncan's arrival.

Prime Robinson routinely dominated Shaquille. And Parker's performance against the Lakers that post-season is still better than any provided by any of Robinson's teammates (again, prior to Duncan's arrival).

His playoff numbers worsened because other teams would strategize to triple team him and force the rest of the cast to beat them... something which unfortunately for Spurs' fans never transpired.

[Phenomanul]

TBH I'm glad we had both...

It's just silly to undermine the greatness of Robinson simply because he didn't have any help - all while failing to acknowledge that Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Kawhi, Bowen were far better teammates than any Robinson ever played with in the post-season. Not to mention the Pop factor.

Other than Bowen, all of those other players outrank Elliott - the second best Spur to play alongside Robinson pre-1997.

[TD 21]

The real Finals in 2003 were the series against the Lakers and against the Mavericks...

Duncan needed every bit of help (not undermining his greatness) to get by the Mavs (with that three point barrage by Kerr and Stephen Jackson in Game 6). Robinson NEVER had any such help prior to Duncan's arrival.

Prime Robinson routinely dominated Shaquille. And Parker's performance against the Lakers that post-season is still better than any provided by any of Robinson's teammates (again, prior to Duncan's arrival).

His playoff numbers worsened because other teams would strategize to triple team him and force the rest of the cast to beat them... something which unfortunately for Spurs' fans never transpired.

Even if Kerr didn't catch fire, they still would have had game 7, at home, to potentially advance to the Finals.

:lmao Every great player needs their teammates to do myriad things in order to win. It's impossible otherwise.

Robinson's and O'Neal's respective prime didn't really parallel. Unlike Robinson and Olajuwon, Duncan had to deal with O'Neal in his prime, with another borderline top 5 player on his team and from '01-'04, he had no second star to combat them, yet they were the 2nd best team in the league during that time.

Robinson is underrated, but I actually think there's a bigger gap between Duncan and him than there appears to be on the surface.

[ajh18]

Robinson was the more dominant athlete, better scorer, fairly equal defender and better shot blocker. I always thought David was basically what you'd get if you combined the physical gifts of a Anthony Davis and Dwight Howard into one package.

He was a bit easier to gameplan for than Tim though. His face-up game could be disrupted more easily over a series by double and triple teams and good game planning. It's very hard to do that with a guy like Tim though who is that skilled out of the low block. Tims superior post game and passing out of the double team led to better open shots than David, whose lighter base and preference for facing up created less advantageous angles.

All that said Admiral would destroy today's NBA. Just savage it. So would prime Duncan. But David's combo of speed and athleticism would make him completely unguardable under today's rules. There is no current center even close to either of our great big men. Boogie or DeAndre Jordan are considered top centers now when they likely wouldn't be top five in the era of Robinson, Shaq, Zo, Ewing, and Hakeem.

[lefty]

To be fair, though, Robinson played in an era where nearly 30% of the players were white Americans:lol

It would be like adding a bunch of D1 college players into today's league..

He also played in the great centers era

Dream, Ewing, Shaq, Zo , Dikembe, etc etc

[Joseph Kony]

it's sad that most NBA fans will only remember Big Dave as the guy who get shit on by Hakeem, he was such an athletic beast and a monster on both ends of the court in his time

[cd98]

it's sad that most NBA fans will only remember Big Dave as the guy who get shit on by Hakeem, he was such an athletic beast and a monster on both ends of the court in his time I think the Hakeem thing was just icing on the cake. David had subpar playoff performances against the Jazz that earned him a reputation for being soft. Sure some of that was not having other stars, but too often he disappeared against Malone. Robinson was a great talent, but he didn't bleed playoff basketball. I don't think he would've sweated never winning a title. That may be the difference between him and Duncan. David was a renaissance man and Duncan was singularly passionate about basketball.

[Solid D]

I wonder what position he would play in today's NBA and Spur's team on offense. PF? SF? Could he develop a reliable 3ptr? PG?

IMO...Center

[daledondale]

With all the respect to the admiral.

The moment of truth, The Finals, game 7.

You need to choose 1 player between Duncan and Robinson, who do you choose?. I have no doubts, i choose Duncan.

When it really really matters, you want a Duncan in your team.

[barbacoataco]

I have often thought that if you change Vinny del Negro for 2005 era Ginobili the 1995 Spurs would have been champions. Robinson would have really benefitted from Manu's passing, slashing to the rim, and overall competitiveness. Robinson had a bunch of chokers around him in the mid 90's. I love Sean Eliott but for most of his career he was a soft when it mattered. (Until 1999).

[Solid D]

Do you see Duncan ringing in the mid '90s with David's supporting cast?

Tough to judge. I think the best chances would have been in 1989-90 (Finals won by Detroit) and in 1994-95 (Finals won by Houston).

[UZER]

I think the Hakeem thing was just icing on the cake. David had subpar playoff performances against the Jazz that earned him a reputation for being soft. Sure some of that was not having other stars, but too often he disappeared against Malone. Robinson was a great talent, but he didn't bleed playoff basketball. I don't think he would've sweated never winning a title. That may be the difference between him and Duncan. David was a renaissance man and Duncan was singularly passionate about basketball.

In the playoffs, the game got way more physical, especially in the late 80s and 90s. Unfortunately, as great as David was, he had a waist an thin as a high school freshman. He beefed up his arms, but without a solid base, he couldn't bang down low for 40+ min series after series and would end up getting pushed around. Couple that with his b team teammates allowing him to get double and triple teamed, and you end up with David's playoff failures before Duncan.

[100%duncan]

Duncan with "better circumstances" :lol thing is there would be no circumstances if the stars didnt align and Duncan didnt fall into SA's lap.

There would be no san antonio today if there was no timmy after drob. You cant go with if's on debates because no one would win. I might not have watched drob in this prime but what I stated
Is all that matters

[lefty]

One of them kept his wife

[tholdren]

Do you see Duncan ringing in the mid '90s with David's supporting cast?

No

[midnightpulp]

No, he wasn't. David Robinson is arguably the most gifted physical specimen the NBA has ever seen. Basically a 7'1" Lebron. David really did have GOAT potential coming out of college, but his Naval commitments took two years from his prime.

But Duncan's basketball IQ and mental fortitude was much higher (which I find puzzling considering David scored like 1320 on his SATs, was a math wiz, and a military man), qualities that prove to be much more important in the post-season than regular season.

Also could be David just had shitty teammates. I would love to rewatch David's post-season "chokejobs" and see if they were a result of him being "soft" or if the lack of a "Pippen" (Sean wasn't that great of a number two) and top role players on those Spurs were the actual culprit. I don't vividly remember the particulars of the 95 WCF, but many who do say that Houston was triple-teaming David constantly while Bob Hill refused to double Hakeem.

[unleashbaynes]

Do you see Duncan ringing in the mid '90s with David's supporting cast?

Yes.

[Thomas82]

Do you see Duncan ringing in the mid '90s with David's supporting cast?

I could see him getting at least one.

[Phenomanul]

The people suggesting Duncan could've rang with any of David's casts either don't understand just how crappy those casts were or didn't see any of those games at all... SMDH at the you tube generation.

[lefty]

The people suggesting Duncan could've rang with any of David's casts either don't understand just how crappy those casts were or didn't see any of those games at all... SMDH at the you tube generation.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't care about the opinions of former players(obvious reasons), but I find it interesting that Robinson is such an afterthought with them, tbh..

I remember watching one of those NBA Old Timers shows(where former players sit around and talk with Ernie Johnson hosting), a few years ago, and Robinson's name was scoffed at when he received an honorable mention for the C position in the 90s, IIRC..

[UZER]

I don't care about the opinions of former players(obvious reasons), but I find it interesting that Robinson is such an afterthought with them, tbh..

I remember watching one of those NBA Old Timers shows(where former players sit around and talk with Ernie Johnson hosting), a few years ago, and Robinson's name was scoffed at when he received an honorable mention for the C position in the 90s, IIRC..

One series did him in. Fair or not, there is no recovering from it.

[lefty]

During the mid 90s a lot of players/coaches were mad when asked by reposrters if Robby was a choker

:lol Cotton Fitzsimmons said that was fucking BS and pretty much said Robby had shitty teammates

As for 1995 this one is on Bob Hill tbh. .... and Hakeem had better teammates tbh ,,,,,

[TampaDude]

DRob was awesome, but Timmy is an all-time Top 5 NBA player.

[Thomas82]

I'm just glad we had both of them on our team.