Which player loss would have the biggest impact on Team Defensive Rating

[dabom]

Which player loss would have the biggest impact on Team Defensive Rating?

It seems like some posters are dumbasses. :lol

[lilbthebasedgod]

Per possession they are on the floor, Dedmon. Then Aldridge and Kawhi are probably at a tie. Danny is last.

[dabom]

Per possession they are on the floor, Dedmon. Then Aldridge and Kawhi are probably at a tie. Danny is last.

That's not the question faggot. Can you fucking read? :lmao

[Chinook]

Dedmon, easy. First, because he's the best defender on the team this year, and second because Kawhi would be replaced by Anderson, who's having the best defensive year of his career. So in a world where you could separate offense from defense (because the O would abysmal with Anderson starting at the three -- as we know), the Spurs would be pretty good defensively. Dedmon doesn't have a suitable replacement.

[dabom]

Dedmon, easy. First, because he's the best defender on the team this year, and second because Kawhi would be replaced by Anderson, who's having the best defensive year of his career. So in a world where you could separate offense from defense (because the O would abysmal with Anderson starting at the three -- as we know), the Spurs would be pretty good defensively. Dedmon doesn't have a suitable replacement.

That's where you fucked up already. :lmao

I'm talking about real basketball here. Some other people will have to score. Those other players can't conserve their energy on just defense. :lol

[Chinook]

That's where you fucked up already. :lmao

I'm talking about real basketball here. Some other people will have to score. Those other players can't conserve their energy on just defense. :lol

Not really. I think the Spurs' DRtg would be just fine with Anderson starting, which is your question. They're offense would suck so bad, though.

Believe me, you don't want to go down the rabbit hole of connecting D to O. That looks worse for Kawhi.

[dabom]

Not really. I think the Spurs' DRtg would be just fine with Anderson starting, which is your question. They're offense would suck so bad, though.

Believe me, you don't want to go down the rabbit hole of connecting D to O. That looks worse for Kawhi.

And that's why you don't know shit about basketball. Someone needs to score. This is the real world. You do need to expend energy on offense. That is a FACT. :lmao

[Chinook]

And that's why you don't know shit about basketball. Someone needs to score. This is the real world. You do need to expend energy on offense. That is a FACT. :lmao

No one said anything about not spending energy. If you're trying to push the argument that Kawhi's D has fallen off given his offensively load, I won't argue. But you should go ahead and do that instead of acting like the D hasn't fallen off.

[BillMc]

No one said anything about not spending energy. If you're trying to push the argument that Kawhi's D has fallen off given his offensively load, I won't argue. But you should go ahead and do that instead of acting like the D hasn't fallen off.

Can a legit argument be made for LMA? He plays a lot more minutes than Dedmon. He's the opposite of Kawhi, his O has fallen off as his D has risen.

[dabom]

No one said anything about not spending energy. If you're trying to push the argument that Kawhi's D has fallen off given his offensively load, I won't argue. But you should go ahead and do that instead of acting like the D hasn't fallen off.

I'm talking about the totality of the game. :lol

Where we would be without Kawhi or Dedmon defensively.

[Chinook]

Can a legit argument be made for LMA? He plays a lot more minutes than Dedmon. He's the opposite of Kawhi, his O has fallen off as his D has risen.

I think you can make a pretty good argument that he's been great for the team defensively. But like Kawhi, he's sporting a negative on-off, so I'm not sure. It's possible that Kawhi is dragging LMA's rating down, though. It's can't be overstated how poorly Kawhi's grading out right now. So I'm not sure it tracks with the stats too well.

[dabom]

Does LMA become a more offensive player? Does he play less defense?

Does Porker become a more offensive player? Does he play less defense?

Does having 2 even worse defensive players than they are now impact the team defensive rating?

You see how this shit goes. :lol

[Chinook]

I'm talking about the totality of the game. :lol

Where we would be without Kawhi or Dedmon defensively.

I think the Spurs would be pretty good defensively without Kawhi and pretty shaky without Dedmon. Without both, it would be a struggle.

Also, pretty sure you were vehement in your assertion that we were talking about defense only just a little while ago.

[BillMc]

I think you can make a pretty good argument that he's been great for the team defensively. But like Kawhi, he's sporting a negative on-off, so I'm not sure. It's possible that Kawhi is dragging LMA's rating down, though. It's can't be overstated how poorly Kawhi's grading out right now. So I'm not sure it tracks with the stats too well.

That's interesting, thanks. I'm surprised that LMA is a negative. The eye-test says his defense is improved.

[Chinook]

Does LMA become a more offensive player? Does he play less defense?

He probably does, though his touches don't track with Kawhi's very well. My guess is more Tony, Green and Simmons.


Does Porker become a more offensive player? Does he play less defense?

I don't think Parker plays much less defense, and I especially don't think it matters.


Does having 2 even worse defensive players than they are now impact the team defensive rating?

It does, but not as much as having no anchor.


You see how this shit goes. :lol

I do. You still seem to be trying to figure it out.

[dabom]

I think the Spurs would be pretty good defensively without Kawhi and pretty shaky without Dedmon. Without both, it would be a struggle.

Also, pretty sure you were vehement in your assertion that we were talking about defense only just a little while ago.

I have always talked about leading his team defensively. Does dedmon get a boost playing vs scrubs during garbage time, or playing a significant time playing vs bench players or that he would have to play with a SF that is defensively challenged player like pau gasol to see how his actual rating would be. :lol

A ton of white noise. :lmao

[Chinook]

That's interesting, thanks. I'm surprised that LMA is a negative. The eye-test says his defense is improved.

Every starter is a negative, though most are positives without Kawhi. Kawhi's defensive on-offs are the worst on the team by an order of magnitude. I don't think people understand it.

[Strategic]

Since you don't say better or worse impact, losing TP might have the biggest effect.

[dabom]

That's interesting, thanks. I'm surprised that LMA is a negative. The eye-test says his defense is improved.

His defense has improved.

[dabom]

Since you don't say better or worse impact, losing TP might have the biggest effect.

:lol

this team would be historically good on defense without Porker. :lol

[dabom]

I have always talked about leading his team defensively. Does dedmon get a boost playing vs scrubs during garbage time, or playing a significant time playing vs bench players or that he would have to play with a SF that is defensively challenged player like pau gasol to see how his actual rating would be. :lol

A ton of white noise. :lmao

Or resting vs shit teams. :lmao

[SASdynasty!]

No option for Parker...biased poll.

[spurraider21]

Thread title specifically says defensive raring and OP later acts like he's talking about "totality"

[dabom]

Thread title specifically says defensive raring and OP later acts like he's talking about "totality"

You still have to play offense dumbass. :lmao

[dabom]

Shifting roles has an impact on defensive rating. :lol

But you low IQ cucks don't realize that. :lol

[Benoit]

hahahaha this guy is melting down hard hahahaha

[dabom]

Laker fans. :lmao

[Benoit]

lmao it looks like your own fellow Spur fans dont even respect you

[dabom]

lmao it looks like your own fellow Spur fans dont even respect you

What do you know about respect? :lmao

[Chinook]

Thread title specifically says defensive raring and OP later acts like he's talking about "totality"

He's not wrong that someone has to score and that the DRtgs might fall when the load is redistributed. There are just two issues. The first is that the Spurs had little problem being a top offense without Kawhi so far this season, so it's not even clear that the ORtg wouldn't bump up. The second is that with less Kawhi and no star, the team still have a strong offense and elite D.

It's just not clear that other guys scoring more would drop the D. Of course, they would lose more games without Kawhi, so something would have to give somewhere.

[RD2191]

Every starter is a negative, though most are positives without Kawhi. Kawhi's defensive on-offs are the worst on the team by an order of magnitude. I don't think people understand it.
:lolunderstand what? Are you saying the spurs are better defensively without kawhi?

[dabom]

:lol

[RD2191]

You're basically saying this the spurs would be better without kawhi. Wow, just wow. Have you been hacked by Matt Moore?

[Chinook]

:lolunderstand what? Are you saying the spurs are better defensively without kawhi?

I'm saying they have played better D without Kawhi on the court this season. I'm sure for a given possession where they need a stop, Kawhi's as great as ever. But as dabom said, when you factor in both sides of the ball, the Spurs have a harder time locking guys down with Kawhi on the court.

[dabom]

I'm saying they have played better D without Kawhi on the court this season. I'm sure for a given possession where they need a stop, Kawhi's as great as ever. But as dabom said, when you factor in both sides of the ball, the Spurs have a harder time locking guys down with Kawhi on the court.

i never said that. I've said Kawhi should be the DPOY all year. :lmao

[Chinook]

You're basically saying this the spurs would be better without kawhi. Wow, just wow. Have you been hacked by Matt Moore?

People misunderstand Moore's article. They think he was attacking Kawhi. But he wasn't. He was trying to excuse Kawhi's numbers by attacking everyone else on the team.

There's this independent fact that Kawhi's stats are horrible right now. Moore tried to say that's because teams where playing four-on-four and exploiting Parker and Pau. Others (RealGM people for example) think it's because Kawhi's finally getting exposed. My argument was completely different than either of those.

[RD2191]

You're talking about the regular season. Let me know when slomo can go toe to toe with the likes of KD and Lebron in the playoffs. You're insinuating that the Spurs are a better team without Kawhi.

[dabom]

:lolunderstand what? Are you saying the spurs are better defensively without kawhi?

Motherfucker just said that. :lmao

[dabom]

You're talking about the regular season. Let me know when slomo can go toe to toe with the likes of KD and Lebron in the playoffs. You're insinuating that the Spurs are a better team without Kawhi.

:lmao

[dabom]

Spurs would get exposed with SLOMO on defense in the playoffs. :lmao

Saying saying dedmon is a better defender than Kawhi. :lmao

[RD2191]

I'm not going to pretend that I know even half of what you know about analytics and all that stuff but I know a stupid claim when I see one.

[Chinook]

You're talking about the regular season. Let me know when slomo can go toe to toe with the likes of KD and Lebron in the playoffs. You're insinuating that the Spurs are a better team without Kawhi.

Fucker, I'm not insinuating shit. I'm straight-up saying that the Spurs haven't been as good defensively when Kawhi's on the court. I'm not implying anything by that, and I'm not trying to say it a different way. That's just obvious from looking at the stats. In the playoffs, that will only change if the actual performance of the players change.

If Kawhi starts getting more steals and blocks and rebounds, and his man stops scoring as much on him, then yes, his number will get better. Then you can say that Kawhi started playing better D like the star he is, blah blah blah. That what happens with Lebron every year. But that won't change these numbers now, or what they mean for a DPOY race.

And no, I have said, explicitly and multiple times in this thread that the Spurs would be a worse team without Kawhi -- on both ends even. Stop trying to interpret an agenda when I actually wrote down the opposite of that.

[Mnky]

LMA. He's the anchor of the system. kawhi is the best defensive player on the planet, but that's not the question.

[lilbthebasedgod]

That's not the question faggot. Can you fucking read? :lmao

Ok in totality LMA or Kawhi because they play more minutes.

[DAF86]

Not really. I think the Spurs' DRtg would be just fine with Anderson starting, which is your question. They're offense would suck so bad, though.

Believe me, you don't want to go down the rabbit hole of connecting D to O. That looks worse for Kawhi.

Offense would be so awful that it would translate to the D in a negative way, imho.

[Chinook]

Offense would be so awful that it would translate to the D in a negative way, imho.

It could, but probably not enough to really hurt it. There are multiple teams that have good defenses and bad offenses.

[daledondale]

Chinook you know about hoops, but really surprise me your effort to negate the reality. Kawhi is our best defender and KA isn't good as you say (even defensively).

[daledondale]

No option for Parker...biased poll.http://i.imgur.com/QASOJat.gif

[TheGreatYacht]

You're talking about the regular season. Let me know when slomo can go toe to toe with the likes of KD and Lebron in the playoffs. You're insinuating that the Spurs are a better team without Kawhi.
Of course Kyle can't do that. No one on this team can.

[TheGreatYacht]

hahahaha this guy is melting down hard hahahaha
:lol

[Chinook]

Chinook you know about hoops, but really surprise me your effort to negate the reality. Kawhi is our best defender and KA isn't good as you say (even defensively).

Kawhi "being our best defender" and Kawhi playing the best defense on the team are two different things. There simply is no argument that Kawhi isn't having a down year defensively. Absolutely none. Not a bit. Not even a half-assed argument. Not even a homer argument. None. This is by far the least-impactful year he's had on that end since he was a rookie, probably ever. That isn't to say that when you need a stop Kawhi isn't your man. It is to say that there is something going on.

This isn't a case of some random stat being used to make a case against reality. This is a case where EVERY FUCKING STAT shows Kawhi hasn't been as good. That's the reality that's being denied. There are plenty of reasons and excuses for it, but none of them start off without accepting the reality that Kawhi hasn't been as good defensively this season.

What you call reality I call an assumption based on expectations. That's the same reason why Moore's article irrationally blamed everyone else for Kawhi's numbers. When you go in assuming a result, you're going to get skewed data or be inclined to jump through hoops to explain away the data you get.

[NameLess Scrub]

Kawhi "being our best defender" and Kawhi playing the best defense on the team are two different things. There simply is no argument that Kawhi isn't having a down year defensively. Absolutely none. Not a bit. Not even a half-assed argument. Not even a homer argument. None. This is by far the least-impactful year he's had on that end since he was a rookie, probably ever. That isn't to say that when you need a stop Kawhi isn't your man. It is to say that there is something going on.

This isn't a case of some random stat being used to make a case against reality. This is a case where EVERY FUCKING STAT shows Kawhi hasn't been as good. That's the reality that's being denied. There are plenty of reasons and excuses for it, but none of them start off without accepting the reality that Kawhi hasn't been as good defensively this season.

What you call reality I call an assumption based on expectations. That's the same reason why Moore's article irrationally blamed everyone else for Kawhi's numbers. When you go in assuming a result, you're going to get skewed data or be inclined to jump through hoops to explain away the data you get.

I guess everyone would assume if Kawhi's defense is worse relative to recent season, then it must be due to the increase in his offensive load; but what would be the other factors?

[Chinook]

I guess everyone would assume if Kawhi's defense is worse relative to recent season, then it must be due to the increase in his offensive load; but what would be the other factors?

The numbers don't really reflect it, but I feel like he's played more minutes this season. That would have an effect as far as fatigue goes. Also, if he plays his minutes almost exclusively against other teams' starters this year (but didn't really do so last year), then that could explain. A lot of it.

I've said before that the starters don't seem to play very good offense. Kawhi has a good ORtg but I've long hated his shot-selection precisely because it tends to hurt the team's defense. It's not a matter of Kawhi not being good enough to hit those shots. It's more about where he is on the floor when he shoots them and where everyone else is as they watch him shoot. Even if those shots go in, the Spurs aren't in ideal defensive position. Sometimes, Gasol is one of the only two people above the FTLE. That's just not going to work defensively. Wing-led offenses are tricky to run for a lot of reasons, and the Kawhi-led one isn't an exception.

Then there could be other things like if he's complaining about calls or if he's getting easier assignments but straying off them. Or maybe he hasn't adjusted to the new players as fast as everyone else has. I don't know. I bet there is data to examine some of these factors. But I don't know where to get it.

[TheDoctor]

No option for Parker...biased poll.

I agree. The HOTS loss would have the biggest impact on the team.

The Spurs would exponentially improve without Enrique in the lineup tbh.

[dabom]

:lol