Pop's retarding coaching and rest/substitution patterns

[Ice009]

Why does Pop always bench guys when they are hot?

Kawhi started off the game great, then Pop seems to bench him for half a quarter at a time. The he benches him at the end of the 3rd and waits until almost halfway through the 4th to bring him back in after the team gave up all the momentum. The other teams usually have their best players out there for the majority of the 4th quarter.

What other top flight coach in NBA history does this? How does it help his players by doing this?

Edit: fucking typo in the title.

[ace3g]

One of my biggest issues with Pop, he doesn't have a good understanding of on court momentum.

[spursistan]

Why does Pop always bench guys when they are hot?Kawhi started off the game great, then Pop seems to bench him for half a quarter at a time. The he benches him at the end of the 3rd and waits until almost halfway through the 4th to bring him back in after the team gave up all the momentum. The other teams usually have their best players out there for the majority of the 4th quarter.What other top flight coach in NBA history does this? How does it help his players by doing this?Edit: fucking typo in the title.
One of my biggest issues with Pop, he doesn't have a good understanding of on court momentum.:tu

[PopTheGOAT]

I'll reserve my bitching for when he does it in the playoffs

[Mikeanaro]

Its scary, also his Porker dependence is like a bad drug.

[Ice009]

I'll reserve my bitching for when he does it in the playoffs

WHAT?????? He rested Kawhi too long in the playoffs last year against OKC. He's done it already in the playoffs. Especially in those two home losses the Spurs got in the playoffs last year. The guy is a fucking retarded coach when it comes to resting players and when to and when not to sub them out.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He's been pretty consistent with Kawhi's playing time throughout the year, Kawhi would play the majority of the first quarters, then have his rest in the 2nd, then play until like 9/10th minute mark in the 3rd and comes back at around the 7/8th of the 4th. No idea if this is the best possible way but since they've been sticking with it regardless of the score, unless it's a blowout, there must be something they like.

[Ice009]

He's been pretty consistent with Kawhi's playing time throughout the year, Kawhi would play the majority of the first quarters, then have his rest in the 2nd, then play until like 9/10th minute mark in the 3rd and comes back at around the 7/8th of the 4th. No idea if this is the best possible way but since they've been sticking with it regardless of the score, unless it's a blowout, there must be something they like.

Some games he waits way too long to bring him back and doesn't ride his hot hand enough. Like tonight, there was no reason to sit him out with a few minutes left in the 3rd and then almost half of the 4th quarter. That is way too long in a road game against a decent team that had the momentum.

[PopTheGOAT]

WHAT?????? He rested Kawhi too long in the playoffs last year against OKC. He's done it already in the playoffs. Especially in those two home losses the Spurs got in the playoffs last year. The guy is a fucking retarded coach when it comes to resting players and when to and when not to sub them out.
I said when, not if :lol calm down bro

[PopTheGOAT]

Edit your title btw. "retarding coaching"...not a position you wanna be in tbh

[Ice009]

I said when, not if :lol calm down bro

I'm just hot after the game. He's done it too many times already and I've had enough of it.

Another big time example. The rotation at the end of the 3rd and start of the 4th quarter of game 6 in the 2013 finals. I don't need to see it anymore in the playoffs before I get on him about it. When you said you're going to wait until the playoffs, I had too many flashbacks of him doing it already. It's enough already.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Some games he waits way too long to bring him back and doesn't ride his hot hand enough. Like tonight, there was no reason to sit him out with a few minutes left in the 3rd and then almost half of the 4th quarter. That is way too long in a road game against a decent team that had the momentum.

Disagree about bringing him back too late. Kawhi was right on his way to his regular per game minutes, excluding blowouts, and it's a back to back.

[Ice009]

Edit your title btw. "retarding coaching"...not a position you wanna be in tbh

I don't think you can edit it, otherwise I would have. I edited the first post saying it's a typo.

[PopTheGOAT]

I'm just hot after the game. He's done it too many times already and I've had enough of it.

Another big time example. The rotation at the end of the 3rd and start of the 4th quarter of game 6 in the 2013 finals. I don't need to see it anymore in the playoffs before I get on him about it. When you said you're going to wait until the playoffs, I had too many flashbacks of him doing it already. It's enough already.
I'm with you, but I'm just saying I'm not gonna waste my energy on it. Wanna change my name tbh :lol

[Ice009]

I'm with you, but I'm just saying I'm not gonna waste my energy on it. Wanna change my name tbh :lol

OK man, thanks. You've actually cooled me off. I'm going to try and relax a bit - otherwise Pop will drive me insane. Nothing I can do about it I guess.

[PopTheGOAT]

OK man, thanks. You've actually cooled me off. I'm going to try and relax a bit - otherwise Pop will drive me insane. Nothing I can do about it I guess.
No prob lol.
remember, "it's just basketball" :pop:

[YGWHI]

He's been pretty consistent with Kawhi's playing time throughout the year, Kawhi would play the majority of the first quarters, then have his rest in the 2nd, then play until like 9/10th minute mark in the 3rd and comes back at around the 7/8th of the 4th. No idea if this is the best possible way but since they've been sticking with it regardless of the score, unless it's a blowout, there must be something they like.

But not every game is identical to the last... In some games a coach needs to ride the hot hand, or play some player more time with other as tandem.

Pop's reluctance to change his minute-management killed the Spurs in last postseasons.

[Ice009]

But not every game is identical to the last... In some games a coach needs to ride the hot hand, or play some player more time with other as tandem.

Pop's reluctance to change his minute-management killed the Spurs in last postseasons.

Exactly. He tried his rotation/sticking to the plan thing in game 6 when we were on the verge of blowing the Heat out. The Heat bring Lebron back early and make the comeback.

You don't have to follow the same set list/routine every game.

[tenbeersbold]

Pop believes his system and his later career habit of endlessly adapting it is what keeps the Spurs relevant

Pop has always tried to prove that coaching can overcome the hyper athletic ISO style of most NBA teams.

Its one of the few things that keeps it interesting for him
You just know he despises the NBA's whole promotional push on stars,super teams and monkey ball

[DenialTwist]

Pop has said in the past he doesn't believe in the "hot hand." And his substitutions are really odd. Parker having a starting role is also still baffling to me. He is invisible out there in terms of impact and always has a nagging injury no matter how long Pop rests him every season. It's the spurs front office refusal to inject the team with youth that is puzzling. If Manu comes back another year I don't know what to say. Spurs backcourt is really vulnerable.

[Ice009]

Pop has said in the past he doesn't believe in the "hot hand." And his substitutions are really odd. Parker having a starting role is also still baffling to me. He is invisible out there in terms of impact and always has a nagging injury no matter how long Pop rests him every season. It's the spurs front office refusal to inject the team with youth that is puzzling. If Manu comes back another year I don't know what to say. Spurs backcourt is really vulnerable.

Wow. I never heard him say that. That's mind blowing to me because I anytime I was hot, I wanted the ball and more shots to ride it. I guess Pop never was much of a shooter or scorer?

I won't discredit him, but I don't really agree with his stance on it.

[MultiTroll]

Pop has said in the past he doesn't believe in the "hot hand."
smh
Starting to wonder if Matt Bonners 2009 Playoff stats are in jeopardy.

5 games started
.217 and .231 fg%
Nearly swept by Dallas (4-1)
:pop:

[cutewizard]

When Pop retires, who will succeed him ??

[picnroll]

When Pop retires, who will succeed him ??
Apparently we have any number of Spurstalk posters who feel qualified for the job.

[sasaint]

Pop believes his system and his later career habit of endlessly adapting it is what keeps the Spurs relevant

Pop has always tried to prove that coaching can overcome the hyper athletic ISO style of most NBA teams.

Its one of the few things that keeps it interesting for him
You just know he despises the NBA's whole promotional push on stars,super teams and monkey ball

Exactly - which is what made the "beautiful game" the pinnacle of Pop's career. Pop personified.

[sasaint]

When Pop retires, who will succeed him ??

Good question - and, hopefully, not too premature. However, I do not believe his successor is on his current staff.

[UZER]

Good question - and, hopefully, not too premature. However, I do not believe his successor is on his current staff.

Udoka. It wouldn't be fair for anyone to just come in and take over when they dont know the system.

:pop:

[szkorhetz]

Udoka. It wouldn't be fair for anyone to just come in and take over when they dont know the system.

:pop:
This is why it will be either Brown or Bud.

[Blake]

Spurs being on a nice win streak with the 1 seed in sight is the perfect time to complain about Pop.

[MultiTroll]

Spurs being on a nice win streak with the 1 seed in sight is the perfect time to complain about Pop.
Postseason Blakey.
It's all about the postseason.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266460&p=8905838#post8905838

[dabom]

I'd take Bud back. Dude is working miracles with his Atlanta squad. Let's give him a real organization.

[Blake]

Postseason Blakey.
It's all about the postseason.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266460&p=8905838#post8905838

Popgriping is a year round activity for you, fabbsy

[MultiTroll]

Popgriping is a year round activity for you, fabbsy
No, I don't.
But...
Championship pursuit is a year round activity.
The regular season wins are nice, but no comparison to legit Championships.

You're Casual Fan and there is a place for you too.
Enjoy the regular season.

[Blake]

No, I don't.

:lol multI year griping

[Play Boban]

One of my biggest issues with Pop, he doesn't have a good understanding of on court momentum.
Oh, he understands it, he just a stealth operative working for the other team a lot of times. See the 2013 Finals, where Riley paid Poop a huge sum of money to blow games 6 and 7.

[Namundy]

Apparently we have any number of Spurstalk posters who feel qualified for the job.

Don't be retarding.

[YGWHI]

Pop believes his system and his later career habit of endlessly adapting it is what keeps the Spurs relevant

Pop has always tried to prove that coaching can overcome the hyper athletic ISO style of most NBA teams.

Its one of the few things that keeps it interesting for him
You just know he despises the NBA's whole promotional push on stars,super teams and monkey ball

All that's true but it doesn't make him perfect. He has made a lot of big mistakes in the last two playoffs and most of those mistakes were minute-managing related.

He refused to ride the hot hand with Patty in 2015 PO, didn't play him more minutes, and went to an injured Parker in crucial moments of the series, it didn't work well.

He refused to match Kawhi minutes with KD minutes, Spurs were outplayed by 40 pts per 100 possessions with Kawhi on the bench in the series.

He refused to play LMA more minutes C with one of Bobo/DWest, Spurs got outrebounded by a large margin in the series.

The list is extensive...

[YGWHI]

Spurs being on a nice win streak with the 1 seed in sight is the perfect time to complain about Pop.

Well, if he would have played Kawhi more minutes against Bucks and Suns, Spurs wouldn't have lost those close games.

But Pop thought it was a good idea playing him just 30' when he was shooting over .60 FG% in both games and scoring at will...

[Ice009]

All that's true but it doesn't make him perfect. He has made a lot of big mistakes in the last two playoffs and most of those mistakes were minute-managing related.

He refused to ride the hot hand with Patty in 2015 PO, didn't play him more minutes, and went to an injured Parker in crucial moments of the series, it didn't work well.

He refused to match Kawhi minutes with KD minutes, Spurs were outplayed by 40 pts per 100 possessions with Kawhi on the bench in the series.

He refused to play LMA more minutes C with one of Bobo/DWest, Spurs got outrebounded by a large margin in the series.

The list is extensive...

Kawhi's minutes were ridiculous in last season's OKC series. I have no idea what goes through Pop's mind. What the fuck was he resting him for when he needed to be on the court for 40 minutes plus. At the very least they needed him to match KD minute for minute. That shit is inexcusable. I mean, I thought he was resting them during the regular season so that they can play big minutes on the playoffs. Instead, this fucker costs his team the series by resting them in the playoffs too and following his minute regime. Pop is a poor improviser.

They also don't have the conditioning to perform because they got too much rest and aren't used to it. When Duncan was at his best, he played big minutes. He was used to it, and used to playing well with those minutes.

Game 6 against Miami, why in the fuck was he resting everyone to end and start the 4th quarter and playing a scrub regular season lineup (he trotted out a lineup that I wouldn't have even played in the regular season against the top teams if I were coach) when the Championship was on the line?? Resting players in these situations is retarded (see I can spell it right).

[YGWHI]

^^^^ :tu

Talking about Suns game again...

820483719286968320

[Play Boban]

Spurs being on a nice win streak with the 1 seed in sight is the perfect time to complain about Pop.
The Spurs win in spite of Poop. If Rick Carlisle was the coach of this team, they'd be up five games on the Warriors, believe me.

[Blake]

Well, if he would have played Kawhi more minutes against Bucks and Suns, Spurs wouldn't have lost those close games.

But Pop thought it was a good idea playing him just 30' when he was shooting over .60 FG% in both games and scoring at will...

Big picture.

[Blake]

The Spurs win in spite of Poop. If Rick Carlisle was the coach of this team, they'd be up five games on the Warriors, believe me.

Lol

[Namundy]

Could there possibly be an injury-analytics driven reasoning behind minute distribution? If you look around the league there are ACLs and MCLs popping left and right. You don't really see that happen very often with the Spurs. Most of the time the injuries are freak occurrences (broken hands seem to be the new norm). However, I can't remember the last time a Spurs player went down with a serious knee ligament injury. If Kawhi plays less minutes so I never see this happen, so be it. Those types of injuries are truly career altering.

[sasaint]

Could there possibly be an injury-analytics driven reasoning behind minute distribution? If you look around the league there are ACLs and MCLs popping left and right. You don't really see that happen very often with the Spurs. Most of the time the injuries are freak occurrences (broken hands seem to be the new norm). However, I can't remember the last time a Spurs player went down with a serious knee ligament injury. If Kawhi plays less minutes so I never see this happen, so be it. Those types of injuries are truly career altering.

Great question. Great thread contribution. Thanks! You don't post enough. :toast

[superbigtime]

He likes to mindfuck the team.

[Blake]

Could there possibly be an injury-analytics driven reasoning behind minute distribution? If you look around the league there are ACLs and MCLs popping left and right. You don't really see that happen very often with the Spurs. Most of the time the injuries are freak occurrences (broken hands seem to be the new norm). However, I can't remember the last time a Spurs player went down with a serious knee ligament injury. If Kawhi plays less minutes so I never see this happen, so be it. Those types of injuries are truly career altering.

:cry but they could've beat the Bucks if they went balls out :cry

[Play Boban]

Lol
Poop isn't worth the poop which come sout of Rick Carlisle.

[Blake]

Poop isn't worth the poop which come sout of Rick Carlisle.

Neither is your opinion

[MultiTroll]

Kind of The Beautiful Game going to bring us back from 13 down. Fantastic ball movement.
Oops, Cementhead has seen enough.
Stop the ball movement and throw it into Pau.

:lol Unreal we were able to win in spite of Popped.

[Ice009]

I really don't know what goes through Pop's mind. A lot of the time, it's like he's thought about what he wants to do and tries to stick with it even if it's not working. I'm glad he didn't wait too long to bring Kawhi back in this time. He also let him play out most of the 3rd quarter.

[Mikeanaro]

Dude is scratching the wound with a driller, whats wrong with him?

[YGWHI]

Big picture.
I guess the big picture is winning a playoffs series or making WCF again but Pop did these worrisome things in last two playoffs too



:cry but they could've beat the Bucks if they went balls out :cry
In 2015 Spurs could have avoided the Clips with just ONE win more in the regular season.

Like it or not, just one game can make all the difference ...


For the record, nobody says Kawhi should play 40 mpg in the season or exhaust him in a way that increases the possibilities of injuries. But in some close games in RS and PO, the Spurs needed a better minute-managing.

[YGWHI]

A lot of the time, it's like he's thought about what he wants to do and tries to stick with it even if it's not working.
Pau was 3-12 but Pop wanted him in the post in the 4th.. play after play

Even when Kawhi had Harden on him in the same possession..

The Spurs need Gasol/Lee/Dedmon on the floor to stay big against these teams to have a chance but why don't exploit the clear advantage in that Kawhi's matchup too?

[Blake]

I guess the big picture is winning a playoffs series or making WCF again but Pop did these worrisome things in last two playoffs too



In 2015 Spurs could have avoided the Clips with just ONE win more in the regular season.

Like it or not, just one game can make all the difference ...


For the record, nobody says Kawhi should play 40 mpg in the season or exhaust him in a way that increases the possibilities of injuries. But in some close games in RS and PO, the Spurs needed a better minute-managing.

Eh if they couldn't beat the Clips they weren't gonna win the title any way

[Blake]

Pau was 3-12 but Pop wanted him in the post in the 4th.. play after play

Even when Kawhi had Harden on him in the same possession..

The Spurs need Gasol/Lee/Dedmon on the floor to stay big against these teams to have a chance but why don't exploit the clear advantage in that Kawhi's matchup too?

Pau had the blatantly obvious mismatch. Other than the slam, he played like shit.

You guys are morons.

[bklynspursfan]

Pau had the blatantly obvious mismatch. Other than the slam, he played like shit.

You guys are morons.

Yea, Pau played terribly. He and LMA had advantages and couldn't take advantage enough. LMA at least played solid D, but Pau really didn't play well. He's also out there cause he can shoot the 3 ball, and the 3 ball is your best friend when you're trying to come from behind.

I get why Pau was out there, but he came back with Lee pretty quickly. Dedmon was not as sharp as hoped either. But he had to buy Lee a few minutes to rest.

[rjv]

Apparently we have any number of Spurstalk posters who feel qualified for the job.

they'll have to give up their jobs as full time trolls/arm chair GMs.

[pgardn]

The use of Lee instead of Dedmon last night was huge. We needed a big man who was good with the ball last night. Lee and KL got us the W.

Im sure the OP posted about this change.

[DesignatedT]

Yep Lee was and will be super important vs these smaller teams. I liked Pop playing Simmons a little more as well in this particular matchup.

[Blake]

The use of Lee instead of Dedmon last night was huge. We needed a big man who was good with the ball last night. Lee and KL got us the W.

Im sure the OP posted about this change.

And Parker