Is Tony injured, tbh?

[ElNono]

This is not a Parker hater thread, tbh... chill.

Just wondering what's going on with him, is Pop forcefully moving him to a secondary role due to some injury? Anybody heard anything?

He just hasn't looked the same since 2013...

[dabom]

midnightpulp This shit happens every fucking year, and somehow people pretend like it isn't an issue. :lmao

[look_at_g_shred]

Iirc pop was asked this question after the game, and his response was no he just didn't have his legs tonight.

[GB20]

It seems Murray is going to take over next season with the way Tony is responding this year.

[Mikeanaro]

He is gassed, not a kid anymore.

[ElNono]

Iirc pop was asked this question after the game, and his response was no he just didn't have his legs tonight.

thank bro, good to hear it might just be that.

[tbdog]

I am secretly hoping that both Parker and Manu call it quits. You know, they have reputation of being great players, and there are too many times the are detriment.

[midnightpulp]

midnightpulp This shit happens every fucking year, and somehow people pretend like it isn't an issue. :lmao

Murray will have to be phased in as a probable starter if that's the case.

Major point is keep House's ass on the bench. I've told you before, I'm not so much as pro-Parker as anti-House starting.

[ElNono]

I am secretly hoping that both Parker and Manu call it quits. You know, they have reputation of being great players, and there are too many times the are detriment.

725746530867548160

4 more years, tbh... time flies...

[lefty20]

He just hasn't looked the same since 2013...

:lol

[vander]

not injured enough, tbh

[sasaint]

I am secretly hoping that both Parker and Manu call it quits. You know, they have reputation of being great players, and there are too many times the are detriment.

I will keep your secret, no problem.

[Solid D]

He sat out the Indiana game with a "quad contusion." He's not what he used to be, which is completely understandable. TP certainly wasn't contributing much in this game...nor in the game in New Orleans Friday.

[Brazil]

Wtf, I was about to ask the same about manu tbh

[duncan2k5]

He isn't injures...he's just not that good anymore...its been that way for years

[MaNu4Tres]

He isn't injures...he's just not that good anymore...its been that way for years

Im praying he retires after his deal is up.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

hopefully he shows up in the playoffs

[RD2191]

725746530867548160

4 more years, tbh... time flies...

I'll stop watching the spurs if this is true. I don't mind him off the bench in a limited role but this should be his last season as a starter.

[TheGreatYacht]

I'll stop watching the spurs if this is true. I don't mind him off the bench in a limited role but this should be his last season as a starter.
He'll take Mills role next year tbh.. No way Spurs pay him

[gambit1990]

He'll take Mills role next year tbh.. No way Spurs pay him
tony will really be able to spread the floor... he's shooting 36% from beyond the arc this season, good for 85th in the league :lol

[FkLA]

tony will really be able to spread the floor... he's shooting 36% from beyond the arc this season, good for 85th in the league :lol

His percentage is fine because he limits most of his attempts to wide open corner threes. He's only made 18 all year though. So he only makes one every four games or so. He's not a 3PT threat at all.

[DAF86]

He has been done for quite some time now, tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

tony will really be able to spread the floor... he's shooting 36% from beyond the arc this season, good for 85th in the league :lol
We were fine in 2014 when Manure shot 34.9% from three :lol

[gambit1990]

We were fine in 2014 when Manure shot 34.9% from three :lol
we were fine because patty's 3 point shooting was over 50%.

[dbreiden83080]

I am secretly hoping that both Parker and Manu call it quits. You know, they have reputation of being great players, and there are too many times the are detriment.

He should retire after next year IMO. Contract will be up. Spurs would only re-sign him in a secondary role for not a ton of money. In 2 years he won't be offered the starting job anywhere. Might not get it now outside of SA..

[DPG21920]

What really sucks is that the guy who is playing for his biggest contract is getting every opportunity to prove he's a starting PG on a playoff team and that he deserves money and he's worse than TP.

Mills is not a pG and it sucks that as bad as TP is he's still better as a starting PG than Mills. Mills can truly barely dribble for a PG at an NBA level, has no vision and cannot effectively get the team into fluid sets and he cannot setup the stars like LMA consistently either.

Mills cannot get into the paint and collapse a defense, cannot finish at the rim (especially in traffic) and struggles to get his own shot (needs to be assisted at a really high level) especially against starters. He competes his butt off and is a great teammate, but SA needed him to step up an replace TP and he cannot do it.

[Play Boban]

Porker is old and obese.

[DPG21920]

Spurs really needed to be able to rely less on Manu/TP and no one that had a chance has remotely stepped up enough to have them play a lesser role.

It was a gamble by the FO (also a part of players aging when they get bigger deals) but so far it's turned out as bad as possible (meaning TP/Manu aren't playing well and no one has stepped up - spurs were hoping either TP/Manu could play at a high enough level still and/or Simmons/Mills/Kyle/etc.. could truly take the next step and neither happened).

[jermaine]

TBH I was wondering this the last couple of games. I remember a time when no matter how good Mills was playing, Pop snatched him in favor of Parker. Now in the last gms or so, Parker rarely sees the floor in the 4th, an nun in overtime!!! I was like wooooow, how times have changed. No way the Spurs don't pay Mills next yr. I mean unless they plan to let Murray start an Parker comes off the bench an they sign a bet early in the off-season.

[DPG21920]

TBH I was wondering this the last couple of games. I remember a time when no matter how good Mills was playing, Pop snatched him in favor of Parker. Now in the last gms or so, Parker rarely sees the floor in the 4th, an nun in overtime!!! I was like wooooow, how times have changed. No way the Spurs don't pay Mills next yr. I mean unless they plan to let Murray start an Parker comes off the bench an they sign a bet early in the off-season.

I agree - Pop is giving the others (mainly Mills) the chance to step up and he's failing (predictable however). He's not a starting PG. I don't think they can pay Mills if he has proven he can't be a good starter (he can't). They may be forced into it with Manu maybe being gone and Simmons too and not much wiggle room to replace them, but I think this is part of the audition (playing him over TP in the 4th) and everyone is seeing the results.

[jermaine]

I agree - Pop is giving the others (mainly Mills) the chance to step up and he's failing (predictable however). He's not a starting PG. I don't think they can pay Mills if he has proven he can't be a good starter (he can't). They may be forced into it with Manu maybe being gone and Simmons too and not much wiggle room to replace them, but I think this is part of the audition (playing him over TP in the 4th) and everyone is seeing the results.

I wouldn't say he's failing... I just think he's struggles are him trying to be a true PG. It's not who he is. An basically Kawhi will be handling the ball anyways. But Mills stepped up an hit big shots, which is all he needs to do!

[DPG21920]

I wouldn't say he's failing... I just think he's struggles are him trying to be a true PG. It's not who he is. An basically Kawhi will be handling the ball anyways. But Mills stepped up an hit big shots, which is all he needs to do!

Mills has not been hitting big shots, has not been playing smart basketball and has not had the offense moving properly. He is failing at the role he himself said he wants: Starting NBA PG.

[TheGreatYacht]

Mills has not been hitting big shots, has not been playing smart basketball and has not had the offense moving properly. He is failing at the role he himself said he wants: Starting NBA PG.
Agreed.

[ElNono]

Spurs really needed to be able to rely less on Manu/TP and no one that had a chance has remotely stepped up enough to have them play a lesser role.

It was a gamble by the FO (also a part of players aging when they get bigger deals) but so far it's turned out as bad as possible (meaning TP/Manu aren't playing well and no one has stepped up - spurs were hoping either TP/Manu could play at a high enough level still and/or Simmons/Mills/Kyle/etc.. could truly take the next step and neither happened).

The Spurs can move on from Mills this offseason and look somewhere else, tbh. If they feel Murray is not ready, maybe they scavenge the league for a better suited PG.

Tony isn't going anywhere though (IMO)... we'll see what his role looks like going forward.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs can move on from Mills this offseason and look somewhere else, tbh. If they feel Murray is not ready, maybe they scavenge the league for a better suited PG.

Tony isn't going anywhere though (IMO)... we'll see what his role looks like going forward.

Ya TP is under contract so it is what it is - but I'm sure they were hoping Mills could step up and take that starting role.

I think SA keeps Mills bc there really isn't money to lose him and replace him, Manu and/or Simmmons too.

[bklynspursfan]

The post season will be telling for Patty. And the rest of this season tbh. He could get crazy hot to finish the season, which would of course be beneficial for him

[sasaint]

Mills has not been hitting big shots, has not been playing smart basketball and has not had the offense moving properly. He is failing at the role he himself said he wants: Starting NBA PG.

It is a pity, but this is absolutely true. But his failure may mean that he isn't pricing himself out of the Spurs' reach at all... :wow

[sasaint]

Spurs really needed to be able to rely less on Manu/TP and no one that had a chance has remotely stepped up enough to have them play a lesser role.

It was a gamble by the FO (also a part of players aging when they get bigger deals) but so far it's turned out as bad as possible (meaning TP/Manu aren't playing well and no one has stepped up - spurs were hoping either TP/Manu could play at a high enough level still and/or Simmons/Mills/Kyle/etc.. could truly take the next step and neither happened).

Yep, that is the unfortunate Spurs team I have been watching.

[SAGirl]

Good discussion in this thread. :toast

[DAF86]

Mills has not been hitting big shots, has not been playing smart basketball and has not had the offense moving properly. He is failing at the role he himself said he wants: Starting NBA PG.

If Tony had made the shots Patty made in OT the other day you would be all over his junk. :lol

I agree though, Mills isn't the answer going forward. At least not for the money he is going to demand. I actually like him at his current price coming off the bench (unlike Parker who provides one of the worst productions in the entire league considering the role he is asked to do and the contract he has. Backup Patty >> starting PG Tony, tbh), but it would make no sense to resign Mills for the money he is probably going to get just to have him as an expensive backup.

Then we have the Parker situation, which is pretty clearly the biggest handicap of this team. The day the Spurs get a starting caliber PG, that's the day they will probably be able to challenge the Warriors for real. And sadly, there isn't seem to be a quick fix for this. He still has one more year on that awful, awful contract he signed some years ago, the Spurs have no cap space, and there's no way Parker gets traded (rightfully so). I think that's why so many folks here are putting their hopes on Murray, he would be the easiest, quickest way of stop wasting Kawhi's prime years.

[DPG21920]

^ this is chock full of propaganda like "wasting Kawhi's prime".

[DAF86]

^ this is chock full of propaganda like "wasting Kawhi's prime".

What propaganda? I'm very straight forward regarding the fact that Tony is done and has been done for a while, tbh.

[DPG21920]

It's pointless to argue most what you said when at the end of the day everyone realizes TP is the best PG on this team still and that is a bad thing.

[dabom]

201
Jonas Valanciunas (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6477/jonas-valanciunas), C
TOR
61
26.1
-1.20
0.31
-0.89
2.16


202
Darren Collison (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3973/darren-collison), PG
SAC
53
30.9
0.76
-1.66
-0.90
2.20


203
Jeremy Lin (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4299/jeremy-lin), PG
BKN
17
22.8
-0.86
-0.07
-0.93
0.51


204
Corey Brewer (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3191/corey-brewer), SF
HOU/LAL
62
15.5
-1.64
0.70
-0.94
1.34


205
Mike Tobey (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2982337/mike-tobey), C
CHA
2
12.5
-1.90
0.96
-0.94
0.03


206
Chinanu Onuaku (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3147366/chinanu-onuaku), PF
HOU
2
5.0
-1.63
0.65
-0.98
0.02


207
Tony Parker (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1015/tony-parker), PG
SA
47
25.8
-0.46
-0.53
-0.99
1.55


208
Anthony Tolliver (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3276/anthony-tolliver), PF
SAC
49
23.3
-0.04
-0.96
-1.00
1.49


209
Damian Jones (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3064559/damian-jones), C
GS
8
5.6
-1.78
0.76
-1.02
0.06


210
Jordan Hill (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3994/jordan-hill), PF
MIN
5
8.0
-1.90
0.86
-1.04
0.05


211
Josh Huestis (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2531364/josh-huestis), SF
OKC
1
7.0
-1.68
0.63
-1.05
0.01


212
Devin Booker (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3136193/devin-booker), SG
PHX
61
34.5
1.08
-2.13
-1.05
2.70


213
Mirza Teletovic (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4385/mirza-teletovic), PF
MIL
51
15.6
-1.17
0.09
-1.08
1.00


214
Brice Johnson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2982330/brice-johnson), F
LAC
1
3.0
-1.92
0.84
-1.08
0.00


215
Skal Labissiere (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3936296/skal-labissiere), PF
SAC
12
9.8
-1.60
0.52
-1.08
0.13


216
Luis Scola (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1781/luis-scola), PF
BKN
36
12.8
-0.80
-0.29
-1.09
0.62


217
Anderson Varejao (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2419/anderson-varejao), C
GS
14
6.6
-1.74
0.65
-1.09
0.10


218
J.R. Smith (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2444/j.r.-smith), SG
CLE
21
28.9
-1.15
0.03
-1.12
0.79


219
Al Jefferson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2389/al-jefferson), C
IND
57
14.6
-0.57
-0.57
-1.14
1.04


220
Langston Galloway (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2530572/langston-galloway), SG
NO/SAC
57
19.9
0.63
-1.77
-1.14
1.41







52
Pau Gasol (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/996/pau-gasol), C
SA
44
26.4
-0.06
1.96
1.90
3.39


53
Al Horford (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3213/al-horford), C
BOS
50
32.8
1.09
0.79
1.88
5.00


54
Dwight Howard (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2384/dwight-howard), C
ATL
56
29.3
-0.60
2.46
1.86
4.99


55
Jrue Holiday (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3995/jrue-holiday), PG
NO
47
32.8
1.12
0.74
1.86
4.74


56
Damian Lillard (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6606/damian-lillard), PG
POR
56
36.0
3.85
-2.03
1.82
6.05


57
Rudy Gay (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3005/rudy-gay), SF
SAC
30
33.8
-0.04
1.83
1.79
3.12


58
Malcolm Brogdon (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2566769/malcolm-brogdon), SG
MIL
61
25.9
2.03
-0.27
1.76
4.57


59
Mason Plumlee (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2488653/mason-plumlee), C
DEN/POR
61
27.3
1.11
0.64
1.75
5.03


60
Patty Mills (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4004/patty-mills), PG
SA
60
21.6
2.82
-1.09
1.73
3.78





Where the fuck does porker get this benefit that he is the best PG on the team. Patty Mills is way better than Porker right now. :lmao

[dabom]

The guy is getting paid 17 mil to be a fucking injury prone cancer. :lmao

[gambit1990]

Mills has not been hitting big shots

If Tony had made the shots Patty made in OT the other day you would be all over his junk. :lol

[TD 21]

I'm not concerned with Parker saying he wants to play until he's 38. That's his ideal scenario, but athletes rarely get to decide when they retire. Even the rare ones who, if they want, can keep squeezing out deals out of an indebted organization get to the point where they know it's time.

He can't stay healthy for extended stretches and every minor ailment renders him unplayable. At some point, he'll probably get sick of that, the constant rehab/maintenance that comes with being an aging player and further decline in his skills/role and realize it's time.


Ya TP is under contract so it is what it is - but I'm sure they were hoping Mills could step up and take that starting role.

I think SA keeps Mills bc there really isn't money to lose him and replace him, Manu and/or Simmmons too.

They were never "hoping Mills could step up and take that starting role". Mills is what he is and pairing him with Green and Parker with Ginobili, would have been a recipe for disaster. The current guard rotation is the best internal one possible for the time being; it's just not good enough to win a championship.

If Mills is re-signed, then it's a sign that Parker is going to remain the starter beyond the duration of his contract because they won't pair him with Mills off the bench. That doesn't mean his minutes and his closing of close games won't continue to decrease though.

[DAF86]

It's pointless to argue most what you said when at the end of the day everyone realizes TP is the best PG on this team still and that is a bad thing.

TP might be the best PG on the team (pretty debatable, tbh) but Patty is way more effective on his role, than Tony is in his. Patty's production, for the money he's making and the role he has, is more than acceptable. Tony's production, for his contract and role, is team hindering, tbh.

[FkLA]

What really sucks is that the guy who is playing for his biggest contract is getting every opportunity to prove he's a starting PG on a playoff team and that he deserves money and he's worse than TP.

Mills is not a pG and it sucks that as bad as TP is he's still better as a starting PG than Mills. Mills can truly barely dribble for a PG at an NBA level, has no vision and cannot effectively get the team into fluid sets and he cannot setup the stars like LMA consistently either.

Mills cannot get into the paint and collapse a defense, cannot finish at the rim (especially in traffic) and struggles to get his own shot (needs to be assisted at a really high level) especially against starters. He competes his butt off and is a great teammate, but SA needed him to step up an replace TP and he cannot do it.

:lol Yeah, its such a shame that a guy making 1/5th of what Enrique makes can't consistently bail him out. Let's put that guy down instead of focusing on how worthless and overpaid the starting PG is.

[dabom]

:lol Yeah, its such a shame that a guy making 1/5th of what Enrique makes can't consistently bail him out. Let's put that guy down instead of focusing on how worthless and overpaid the starting PG is.

The deflection is unreal. :lmao

[dabom]

The whole Spurs starting lineup has a positive RPM except porker. How the fuck does that happen? tbh..?

Like the Spurs are so good and win on average and porker has a negative RPM still. :lmao

[DPG21920]

:lol Yeah, its such a shame that a guy making 1/5th of what Enrique makes can't consistently bail him out. Let's put that guy down instead of focusing on how worthless and overpaid the starting PG is.

Money is irrelevant. It's about on court play. And Mills will be making money soon enough.

[FkLA]

It's pointless to argue most what you said when at the end of the day everyone realizes TP is the best PG on this team still and that is a bad thing.

Who gives a shit if Paddy is more SG than PG. That doesn't automatically make Enrique a better option. Joel Anthony is more of a traditional big man than Bertans too but I'd much rather have Davis out there.

[DAF86]

Money is irrelevant. It's about on court play. And Mills will be making money soon enough.

On court play shows that Mills is an above average PG backup while Parker is the worst starting PG in the league.

[DPG21920]

Who gives a shit if Paddy is more SG than PG. That doesn't automatically make Enrique a better option. Joel Anthony is more of a traditional big man than Bertans too but I'd much rather have Davis out there.

It does matter that TP is easily the best PG when it comes to solutions. Patty is getting his chance and he's failing miserably at being PG. So now there are no solution. Couple that with the fact Patty said he wants a shot at being a starting PG and he's due a big pay day? Yah, it's an issue.

It does not make TP automatically better but the fact is that is the truth. It's not because Patty is more of a SG - it's because Patty lacks PG skills to be a competent starter at PG.

[DPG21920]

On court play shows that Mills is an above average PG backup while Parker is the worst starting PG in the league.

That is true. It's also true that money aside (because you don't win titles based on contract sizes but actual on court performance) that TP is better than Mills at PG and that is the issue.

[jermaine]

I'd love to see Murray start an Parker comes off the bench... But with everyone wanting Mills gone but bring back George Hill, Murray would definitely still be the 3rd man out! Summer league will really help Murray alot.

[FkLA]

On court play shows that Mills is an above average PG backup while Parker is the worst starting PG in the league.

Exactly. In general, despite the fact that most of us think hes capable of more, Paddy has done his job (back-up PG) well enough. It's hilarious that Porkerstans are trying to shit on him because he isnt also doing Porker's job.

[dabom]

Exactly. In general, despite the fact that most of us think hes capable of more, Paddy has done his job (back-up PG) well enough. It's hilarious that Porkerstans are trying to shit on him because he isnt also doing Porker's job.


:lol

[DPG21920]

People are shitting on Mills because people here think he's a better starting PG than TP and he's not. As bad as TP is, Mills is worse. Thats what you don't get and that is what you fail to realize when analyzing the current situation.

[dabom]

People are shitting on Mills because people here think he's a better starting PG than TP and he's not. As bad as TP is, Mills is worse. Thats what you don't get and that is what you fail to realize when analyzing the current situation.

Almost like he closes out games better. :lmao

[TheDoctor]

As bad as TP is...

Thank you.

[FkLA]

It does matter that TP is easily the best PG when it comes to solutions. Patty is getting his chance and he's failing miserably at being PG. So now there are no solution. Couple that with the fact Patty said he wants a shot at being a starting PG and he's due a big pay day? Yah, it's an issue.

It does not make TP automatically better but the fact is that is the truth. It's not because Patty is more of a SG - it's because Patty lacks PG skills to be a competent starter at PG.

Where was that truth these past two games when Pop went with Paddy in the 4th and OT? If Enrique truly was the clear cut better option like you're trying to make it sound that wouldn't be happening during such a crucial stretch of the season.

It's happened regularly throughout the season too.

[gambit1990]

if tony's so important then why is the spurs winning % ten points higher when tony doesn't play?

[dabom]

if tony's so important than why is the spurs winning % ten points higher when tony doesn't play?

He is getting Paid 17 mil for what a rookie can do. :lol

[DPG21920]

We've already seen Mills numbers with the same starters as TP and they are worse than TP's.

[Hoops Czar]

TP might be the best PG on the team (pretty debatable, tbh) but Patty is way more effective on his role, than Tony is in his. Patty's production, for the money he's making and the role he has, is more than acceptable. Tony's production, for his contract and role, is team hindering, tbh.

I don't see how it's debatable when Tony's only competition is Ginobili and Murray. While I agree that Parker's contract is hindering, it's not his fault, it's the PATFO's fault for giving him that extension. I'm not sure why people are blaming Parker for being old. Maybe if he came off the bench for his entire career, he'd have a lot more to give.

[TheGreatYacht]

Spurs are 7-1 when Manure doesn't play, tbh. Hope that $14,000,000 cancer tears an achilles

[TheGreatYacht]

I don't see how it's debatable when Tony's only competition is Ginobili and Murray. While I agree that Parker's contract is hindering, it's not his fault, it's the PATFO's fault for giving him that extension. I'm not sure why people are blaming Parker for being old. Maybe if he came off the bench for his entire career, he'd have a lot more to give.
:wow

True. Not everyone can face backup scrubs like Manure has had the privilege of doing

[Hoops Czar]

Almost like he closes out games better. :lmao

Yeah, he sure does. 1-9 FG, 1-6- 3-Pt FG, 0 assists, 5 personal fouls in 32 minutes. :lmao

[dabom]

Yeah, he sure does. 1-9 FG, 1-6- 3-Pt FG, 0 assists, 5 personal fouls in 32 minutes. :lmao

And Pop still thought he was the better player. :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

Yeah, he sure does. 1-9 FG, 1-6- 3-Pt FG, 0 assists, 5 personal fouls in 32 minutes. :lmao
:lmao

https://m.popkey.co/9334ef/AoXMm_f-thumbnail-100-0_s-600x0.jpg

[DPG21920]

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/traditional/#!?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=1

With both starting lineups we've seen: Danny/Kawhi/LMA/Pau & Danny/Kawhi/LMA/Dedmon

With TP: +2.7 & +2.4
With PM: +1.2 & n/a

In 3-man units with the two best players (kawhi/lma) so likely most important minutes vs other teams best players:

With TP: +3.6
With PM: +2.3

[TheGreatYacht]

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/traditional/#!?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=1

With both starting lineups we've seen: Danny/Kawhi/LMA/Pau & Danny/Kawhi/LMA/Dedmon

With TP: +2.7 & +2.4
With PM: +1.2 & n/a

In 3-man units with the two best players (kawhi/lma) so likely most important minutes vs other teams best players:

With TP: +3.6
With PM: +2.3
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/04/article-2213087-155A4FAB000005DC-675_634x484.jpg

[Cry Havoc]

Exactly. In general, despite the fact that most of us think hes capable of more, Paddy has done his job (back-up PG) well enough. It's hilarious that Porkerstans are trying to shit on him because he isnt also doing Porker's job.

Biggest backpedal in Spurstalk history from "Mills is the future of the Spurs at the PG position."

:lol Pretending like you never uttered that kind of stupidity.

:lol Hedging harder than a pick and roll.

[dabom]

Reddit poster alert. :lol

[Hoops Czar]

:lmao

https://m.popkey.co/9334ef/AoXMm_f-thumbnail-100-0_s-600x0.jpg

Ya know, ever since an elite poster (:lol) came in here and said he should be getting 30 minutes a game in the playoffs, he's been straight up trash.

Some more classics...


Mills is probably getting 50/55 in 4...

Also, dude should win sixth man of the year.

:lol


He's worth 55m in 4,

if that's what it takes...

:lol


Patty Mills’ market value works out to be roughly $18.6 million per season.

http://sportsagentblog.com/2016/12/12/what-could-patty-mills-earn-on-his-next-contract/

:lol


4/40 is a slap to the face tbh.

:lmao


Bayless and Dellevadova got 9 or 10 million/year IIRC..Patty's getting much more than that IMO:lol

Detroit maybe :lol

[Solid D]

He got kneed in the thigh vs. the Lakers. See list of his other dings in the link below:
Tony Parker out with quadriceps contusion; Dejounte Murray to start

http://es.pn/2lVqTHO

[ElNono]

I'd love to see Murray start an Parker comes off the bench... But with everyone wanting Mills gone but bring back George Hill, Murray would definitely still be the 3rd man out! Summer league will really help Murray alot.

summer league is garbage... Murray will have to earn his chops in the NBA, going against the best of the best, tbh.... hopefully next season, we'll see...

[ElNono]

Spurs are 7-1 when Manure doesn't play, tbh. Hope that $14,000,000 cancer tears an achilles

:lol why are you trying to crowbar Manu in this convo, tbh? dude is off the books at the end of the season, up to PATFO what they do with him. Same for Mills.

[ElNono]

Ya know, ever since an elite poster (:lol) came in here and said he should be getting 30 minutes a game in the playoffs, he's been straight up trash.

Some more classics...

:lol

:lol

:lol

:lmao

Detroit maybe :lol

Laugh all you want, but Paddy gonna get paid this summer, tbh... we'll see if it's from the Spurs or somewhere else...

[FkLA]

Biggest backpedal in Spurstalk history from "Mills is the future of the Spurs at the PG position."

:lol Pretending like you never uttered that kind of stupidity.

:lol Hedging harder than a pick and roll.

The fuck are you talking about? I've said he's a better option and still believe he is. I still think he can be a starter. This idea that you need to be dynamic and a good penetrator to be a starting PG on a good team is BS--look at Fisher or Chalmers.

People said the same shit about George Hill because they saw him as a threat to their beloved Enrique too. He ended up being a starting PG afterall despite ST insisting he wasn't a PG.

[DPG21920]

The fuck are you talking about? I've said he's a better option and still believe he is. I still think he can be a starter. This idea that you need to be dynamic and a good penetrator to be a starting PG on a good team is BS--look at Fisher or Chalmers.

People said the same shit about George Hill because they saw him as a threat to their beloved Enrique too. He ended up being a starting PG afterall despite ST insisting he wasn't a PG.

The difference in the guys you mentioned: All really good to above average defender (Mills is not) and all have the ability to handle the ball under pressure while also showing ability to get to the rim at a consistent level.

Mills cannot really create his own shot, cannot have a tight enough handle to dribble in traffic and has poor vision for a lead guard and despite him putting forth tremendous effort is a negative on defense usually (even within a system along with one-on-one).

[SpursIndonesia]

Biggest backpedal in Spurstalk history from "Mills is the future of the Spurs at the PG position."

:lol Pretending like you never uttered that kind of stupidity.

:lol Hedging harder than a pick and roll.

:lmao

People should refrain themselves from taking such an extreme & outrageous point of view. :bobo

[FkLA]

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/traditional/#!?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=1

With both starting lineups we've seen: Danny/Kawhi/LMA/Pau & Danny/Kawhi/LMA/Dedmon

With TP: +2.7 & +2.4
With PM: +1.2 & n/a

In 3-man units with the two best players (kawhi/lma) so likely most important minutes vs other teams best players:

With TP: +3.6
With PM: +2.3

Minutes played together aren't even close, obviously. Hard to imagine that with continuity and Pop developing sets for Paddy within the SL (like Enrique has) that we wouldn't see an uptick in Paddy's numbers.

I'll bring up Hill again, Spurs played their best ball of the year with a young Hill in the SL years ago. I'm aware Manu played out of his mind towards the end of that season but Kawhi is doing the same this year. Enrique has always been replaceable, moreso now that he absolutely sucks.

[FkLA]

The difference in the guys you mentioned: All really good to above average defender (Mills is not) and all have the ability to handle the ball under pressure while also showing ability to get to the rim at a consistent level.

Mills cannot really create his own shot, cannot have a tight enough handle to dribble in traffic and has poor vision for a lead guard and despite him putting forth tremendous effort is a negative on defense usually (even within a system along with one-on-one).

:lol When did Fisher or Chalmers show the ability to get to the rim consistently? I also wouldn't consider either of them as more than average defenders. Older Fisher especially was slow af. Not to mention the fact that Enrique is a terrible defender in his own right. You act like Paddy is stepping in for CP3 on defense or something.

[DPG21920]

Look, I agree TP is definitely replaceable at his current level. Unfortunately neither Mills no Murray are better than TP and those are the only options at this moment. Hopefully that gets addressed next year, but as of now, NOTHING points to Mills or Murray being better starters than TP and TP hasn't even been good.

[FkLA]

There's actually plenty of signs that would point to that. You just refuse to acknowledge them.

[DPG21920]

:lol When did Fisher or Chalmers show the ability to get to the rim consistently? I also wouldn't consider either of them as more than average defenders. Older Fisher especially was slow af.

Dude, you obviously dont watch much basketball outside of SA. Fisher & Chalmers are both better PG's than Mills. Mills is better than Chalmers overall in terms of impact, but in terms of being a PG? Fisher and Chalmers were both better defenders (and it's not close) and both had better control of running an offense vs starters including getting to the rim (neither are TP level, but butter than Mills for sure).

To highlight this if you look at Chalmers %2PTs and unassisted rates both of those highlight this. Mario was typically in the mid-40s% wise for 2PT and high 20's of 2PTFGM assisted. Mills is typically in the high 30's% wise for 2PT and high 40s to 50s of 2PTFGM assisted.

So Mills not only gets into the lane/2PT range less often but when he does? He basically is off a cut and pass half the time while Chalmers does it unassisted about 80% of the time.

Chalmers is nothing special and I"m not saying otherwise, but he and Fisher were both better PG's than Mills (Mills is a better impactful player than Chalmers overall though).

[DPG21920]

There's actually plenty of signs that would point to that. You just refuse to acknowledge them.

Nah - there is really not. I just showed you that with the same crews as TP (even you admitting he's been awful) Mills has been worse. Then when you just watch the games you see how the offense is so much more clunky with Mills truly running sets, how he can't handle the ball well and how his defense is a pretty big negative.

[Hoops Czar]

Laugh all you want, but Paddy gonna get paid this summer, tbh... we'll see if it's from the Spurs or somewhere else...

If a team wants to shoot themselves in the foot, they will. But shooters are a dime a dozen and Mills doesn't bring anything else to the table. He's basically a working man's Gary Neal. In a league where Seth Curry (much better player, tbh) is on a 2 yr(s) / $5,926,410 contract with Dallas, I'm pretty sure he won't see anywhere near the kind of dollar figures Spurstalk is claiming he'll get. And the Spurs would have to be born stupid to pay Paddy a large sum of money to shoot a basketball when there will be so many cheaper alternatives that can do the same job, only better. The Spurs also won't make a second mistake after the Parker extension..... pay a large sum of money and get diminishing returns on your investment.

[TheGreatYacht]

Man. I hope we trade for Seth Curry, tbh.. upgraded Mills.

[ElNono]

If a team wants to shoot themselves in the foot, they will. But shooters are a dime a dozen and Mills doesn't bring anything else to the table. He's basically a working man's Gary Neal. In a league where Seth Curry (much better player, tbh) is on a 2 yr(s) / $5,926,410 contract with Dallas, I'm pretty sure he won't see anywhere near the kind of dollar figures Spurstalk is claiming he'll get. And the Spurs would have to be born stupid to pay Paddy a large sum of money to shoot a basketball when there will be so many cheaper alternatives that can do the same job, only better. The Spurs also won't make a second mistake after the Parker extension..... pay a large sum of money and get diminishing returns on your investment.

We'll see... this is a league that paid 3/$21m to Boban to warm up the bench because "Pop coached him for a year" (can't really understand any other reason). Heck, bad contracts are the norm in the league, tbh... the Spurs are more or less an outlier on that, with guys like Green (and even Patty's current deal) being good value.

[DPG21920]

Mills is a good player too. So him getting paid, even if he's not "worth it" is going to get you a great teammate and solid production.

Mills is just not a starting PG. At least not on a good team.

[Cry Havoc]

Minutes played together aren't even close, obviously. Hard to imagine that with continuity and Pop developing sets for Paddy within the SL (like Enrique has) that we wouldn't see an uptick in Paddy's numbers.

Jesus Christ. I dread Patty bringing the ball up the court against starting PGs. He doesn't even run sets. He hands the ball off to Kawhi or Manu and then sticks himself in a corner. He's not a fucking point guard, dude. "Running sets" for him means he's hanging out on the arc waiting for someone to pass him the ball to shoot.

:lol Running sets for a PG that can't govern an offense.

I love Patty, he's one of my favorite Spurs of all-time, but he doesn't have it man. It's fucking pathetic that you've been banging the same drum for 5 years now and a top 3 coach of all-time is basically giving you every indication that you don't know a fucking thing about basketball, and you still think your knowledge and grasp of the game is superior.

I wait for the day for one of the helmet crew to get a DIII assistant coaching position to show they have the tiniest understanding of ball to prove me wrong. Not holding my breath, though, as I doubt a single one of them has ever even stepped on a court. :lol

[FkLA]

Nah - there is really not. I just showed you that with the same crews as TP (even you admitting he's been awful) Mills has been worse. Then when you just watch the games you see how the offense is so much more clunky with Mills truly running sets, how he can't handle the ball well and how his defense is a pretty big negative.

Why in the world would the GOAT coach roll with Paddy in the 4th and OT for two straight games? And on multiple occasions this seadon? It just makes no sense if Enrique truly is the clear cut better option.

[dabom]

Why in the world would the GOAT coach roll with Paddy in the 4th and OT for two straight games? And on multiple occasions this seadon? It just makes no sense if Enrique truly is the clear cut better option.

He clearly is trying to "avoid that at all costs". :lmao

[DPG21920]

Why in the world would the GOAT coach roll with Paddy in the 4th and OT for two straight games? And on multiple occasions this seadon? It just makes no sense if Enrique truly is the clear cut better option.

You have to understand that this is poor logic. First, it's very recent and TP is coming off an injury. Two, TP has played really bad since the injury (even missed a game). He's going with Mills because the only other option is Murray who is not going to play much.

[DPG21920]

If your only leg to stand on, after all the detailed info I just provided you is "why did Pop go with Mills the last two games" I think you know the truth. The fact Pop is going with Mills for two games with TP coming off an injury does not change the mounds of data I just shared with you.

No matter how much worse TP may get that doesn't by default make Patty a better than TP option as a starting PG on a good team. Now, if TP gets worse and worse sure there is some point where Mills becomes better. However, up until now even with TP being pretty bad, Mills has not been a better option. TP declining further does not change that fact.

[FkLA]

Jesus Christ. I dread Patty bringing the ball up the court against starting PGs. He doesn't even run sets. He hands the ball off to Kawhi or Manu and then sticks himself in a corner. He's not a fucking point guard, dude. "Running sets" for him means he's hanging out on the arc waiting for someone to pass him the ball to shoot.

:lol Running sets for a PG that can't govern an offense.

I love Patty, he's one of my favorite Spurs of all-time, but he doesn't have it man. It's fucking pathetic that you've been banging the same drum for 5 years now and a top 3 coach of all-time is basically giving you every indication that you don't know a fucking thing about basketball, and you still think your knowledge and grasp of the game is superior.

I wait for the day for one of the helmet crew to get a DIII assistant coaching position to show they have the tiniest understanding of ball to prove me wrong. Not holding my breath, though, as I doubt a single one of them has ever even stepped on a court. :lol

And you'd have no basis for that other than your undying loyalty for Enrique. Name me a game when Paddy blatantly struggled to bring the ball up the floor?

He's not a traditional PG. Noone is arguing otherwise. I'm arguing the suggestion that a PG has to be a good penetrator for the team to be good. I mean it's ironic, bc Enrique can't even get to the rim or break down defenses anymore but somehow it's a requirement for Paddy to start. He won't ever be prime Enrique, but with continuity in the SL I don't see why he wouldn't be a great fit with the spacing he brings and occasionally have nights like he does with his national team. Pop has never said or treated Paddy like he isn't a PG btw, just like he never did with Hill. There isn't just one kind of effective PG despite what ST thinks every time they see someone as a threat to their beloved hero Enrique.

[DPG21920]

And you'd have no basis for that other than your undying loyalty for Enrique. Name me a game when Paddy blatantly struggled to bring the ball up the floor?

He's not a traditional PG. Noone is arguing otherwise. I'm arguing the suggestion that a PG has to be a good penetrator for the team to be good. I mean it's ironic, bc Enrique can't even get to the rim or break down defenses anymore but somehow it's a requirement for Paddy to start. He won't ever be prime Enrique, but with continuity in the SL I don't see why he wouldn't be a great fit with the spacing he brings and occasionally have nights like he does with his national team. Pop has never said or treated Paddy like he isn't a PG btw, just like he never did with Hill. There isn't just one kind of effective PG despite what ST thinks every time they see someone as a threat to their beloved hero Enrique.

You keep using generic takes and ignoring all the data I shared. Actual evidence. Across multiple arguments. There is more than one type of good PG. Mills is none of them.

His defense isn't up to par. His ball handling isn't up to par. His vision isn't up to par. His ability to get into the paint is virtually non-existent. His ability to run an offense has not been good. And yes, there have been plenty of examples, especially in the playoffs where Mills is literally full court pressed like a college player because teams know he will cough up the ball.

I like Mills. He's a valuable player. He's NOT A PG.

[DPG21920]

And as an aside, if Pop wants to give Mills the starting job to see if with a bigger sample size it makes sense, I'm all for it. I just don't think anything we have seen to date has shown Mills is a better option, but I'm not against him getting more minutes to see.

[dabom]

You keep using generic takes and ignoring all the data I shared. Actual evidence. Across multiple arguments. There is more than one type of good PG. Mills is none of them.

His defense isn't up to par. His ball handling isn't up to par. His vision isn't up to par. His ability to get into the paint is virtually non-existent. His ability to run an offense has not been good. And yes, there have been plenty of examples, especially in the playoffs where Mills is literally full court pressed like a college player because teams know he will cough up the ball.

I like Mills. He's a valuable player. He's NOT A PG.

I guess Porker ain't an NBA player. :lmao

[DPG21920]

And if you're saying TP can't get into the paint anymore, then :lol at Mills. THIS YEAR:

TP's percentage of points in the paint: 48%. Half of his points basically are coming in the paint. Not only that, but only 25% of his are assisted. That means TP is still scoring half his points in the paint (and you said he can't get there anymore) and he's having to manufacture that by himself 75% of the time.

PM's percentage of points in the paint: 17%. 17. And of the 17% that Mills actuall gets into the paint? He's assisted on 58% of them. He not only can't get in there much (obviously some of that is role and where he spots up, but there is plenty of game tape that shows his struggles), but when he is in there, due to his lack of handles/strength he basically needs to be dished to in order for it to happen.

[FkLA]

You have to understand that this is poor logic. First, it's very recent and TP is coming off an injury. Two, TP has played really bad since the injury (even missed a game). He's going with Mills because the only other option is Murray who is not going to play much.

Except for the very simple fact that it's been a somewhat regular occurrence this season. If you've watched all the games this season, then you know just as well as I do that this past week hasn't been the first time Pop has gone with Paddy to end games.



If your only leg to stand on, after all the detailed info I just provided you is "why did Pop go with Mills the last two games" I think you know the truth. The fact Pop is going with Mills for two games with TP coming off an injury does not change the mounds of data I just shared with you.

No matter how much worse TP may get that doesn't by default make Patty a better than TP option as a starting PG on a good team. Now, if TP gets worse and worse sure there is some point where Mills becomes better. However, up until now even with TP being pretty bad, Mills has not been a better option. TP declining further does not change that fact.

It's debatable. Paddy isn't lighting things up by any means. My main issue is with the whole 'TP is clearly the best option' horeshit. No PG on the team stands out above the rest. Naturally, the guy getting paid $15 mill to play the position deserves the most criticism despite your constant attempts to put down the $3 mill back-up instead.

[DPG21920]

I guess Porker ain't an NBA player. :lmao

That literally makes no sense. Mills is a better overall player at this point than TP. He provides more value than TP at his current contract. He plays his role better than TP does. He is still worse as a starting PG than TP. All of these things are true.

[dabom]

That literally makes no sense. Mills is a better overall player at this point than TP. He provides more value than TP at his current contract. He plays his role better than TP does. He is still worse as a starting PG than TP. All of these things are true.

One of them has a small sample size. :lmao

[DPG21920]

Except for the very simple fact that it's been a somewhat regular occurrence this season. If you've watched all the games this season, then you know just as well as I do that this past week hasn't been the first time Pop has gone with Paddy to end games.




It's debatable. Paddy isn't lighting things up by any means. My main issue is with the whole 'TP is clearly the best option' horeshit. No PG on the team stands out above the rest. Naturally, the guy getting paid $15 mill to play the position deserves the most criticism despite your constant attempts to put down the $3 mill back-up instead.

My attempts to put down Patty are in regards to people saying he's a PG. He's not. He's still a valuable player.

[DPG21920]

I don't know why I even try anymore.

[FkLA]

My attempts to put down Patty are in regards to people saying he's a PG. He's not. He's still a valuable player.

That's fine if you don't want to call him a PG. Let him play off ball and let Kawhi handle things, I mean that's basically what the team does when Enrique is broken down anyway. Just like Hill did with Manu.

If he helps the team more than a broken down Enrique it shouldn't really matter if Paddy fits your definition of a PG or not.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't know why I even try anymore.

Wise man. :toast

[DPG21920]

You know what is funny as well - in pretty decent sample sizes (due to games missed by TP) in two-man units as much as people get mad at TP because of Kawhi TP/Kawhi pairing > Mills/Kawhi (for +/-)

[DPG21920]

That's fine if you don't want to call him a PG. Let him play off ball and let Kawhi handle things, I mean that's basically what the team does when Enrique is broken down anyway. Just like Hill did with Manu.

If he helps the team more than a broken down Enrique it shouldn't really matter if Paddy fits your definition of a PG or not.

I'm saying so far he hasn't given the same exact starting lineups that Tp plays with a boost. That's what you aren't grasping. Then in other moments beyond this year it's happened before too. Yes, TP playing with starters is a bigger sample, but that doesn't make all the data we have over the years with Mills statistically irrelevant.

[FkLA]

I mean all I see is people bringing up what Paddy doesn't bring to the table. I'd like to hear what it is exactly that a broken down Enrique brings? I'm not talking about the Enrique that plays well for a month or two either. The one that gets midnightpulp thinking he can be a third option. I'm talking about the one we've seen the past week.

[DPG21920]

I mean all I see is people bringing up what Paddy doesn't bring to the table. I'd like to hear what it is exactly that a broken down Enrique brings? I'm not talking about the Enrique that plays well for a month or two either. The one that gets midnightpulp thinking he can be a third option. I'm talking about the one we've seen the past week.

Even at a broken down level (this last week), TP's ability to quickly and efficiently get the team into offensive sets is better than Mills. Now, with TP not playing as good of defense and LMA/Danny going cold it's not enough. But the offense gets cleaner looks, especially lma with TP in over Mills.

[FkLA]

I'm saying so far he hasn't given the same exact starting lineups that Tp plays with a boost. That's what you aren't grasping. Then in other moments beyond this year it's happened before too. Yes, TP playing with starters is a bigger sample, but that doesn't make all the data we have over the years with Mills statistically irrelevant.

I'm not an idiot. Obviously I understand the numbers you posted. I just don't consider them the be all end all. One, they don't take into consideration the huge difference between Enrique when he's having his one or two good months of the year and the Enrique we see the rest of the year. Hey if Enrique could play like he does for those two months a year all the time we wouldn't be having this discussion bc that guy is clearly the best option. He always fall off a cliff though. Two, it doesn't account for continuity. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume continuity alone would help Paddy's numbers. He's still a net positive as is, even if his numbers aren't on par with Enrique's.

There's more to it than those numbers. It's dishonest to suggest otherwise. And yeah, I keep bringing up Pop going with Paddy to end games but it truly does speak volumes about Enrique when the coach is choosing to go with a guy whom you don't even consider a PG instead.

[MaNu4Tres]

That's fine if you don't want to call him a PG. Let him play off ball and let Kawhi handle things, I mean that's basically what the team does when Enrique is broken down anyway. Just like Hill did with Manu.

If he helps the team more than a broken down Enrique it shouldn't really matter if Paddy fits your definition of a PG or not.

Both players have different warts offensively, but both have the same warts on defense that get exposed in the playoffs.

Parker is the better point guard and better facilitator, and he allows Kawhi to take a damn breath here and there. Mills is the opposite, he's not a facilitator -- but he's a better spot up shooter than Parker. Both have different strengths, but each of their strengths are inconsistent from a game to game basis. Mills isn't money every game from the perimeter, he's actually off more often than he's on. When he's on, he's on and he'll go 4 for 6, but he'll be off the next game, two, or three or four.

Utilizing Mills more at PG, could mean a step back from Kawhi from an efficiency or defensive standpoint because of the the type of stamina that's exerted in the playoffs. He will need some playmaking help offensively in order for him to sustain the type of defense that's needed to win games -- Mills can't provide that.

All in all, both players will consistently be abused as pinatas defensively in the playoffs, while being inconsistent from game to game with their strengths on offense... its inevitable. We've seen it the last two playoff runs. And it's hard to choose one or the other, both have major flaws and both have skill sets on the offensive end that help Kawhi in different ways.

[DPG21920]

I'm not an idiot. Obviously I understand the numbers you posted. I just don't consider them the be all end all. One, they don't take into consideration the huge difference between Enrique when he's having his one or two good months of the year and the Enrique we see the rest of the year. Hey if Enrique could play like he does for those two months a year all the time we wouldn't be having this discussion bc that guy is clearly the best option. He always fall off a cliff though. Two, it doesn't account for continuity. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume continuity alone would help Paddy's numbers. He's still a net positive as is, even if his numbers aren't on par with Enrique's.

They do take TP's up's and down's into consideration. Those numbers are all-in net numbers for all the games played so far this year. Even with SO MANY more bad games than good, TP's numbers with the starters > Mills.

[DPG21920]

And to M4T point, that is why (in addition to TP health lately) why you see Mills over TP in the 4th. In the 4th, the ball is in Kawhi's hands more anyways, so you don't need TP to initiate - you need better shooting which Mills provides.

[FkLA]

They do take TP's up's and down's into consideration. Those numbers are all-in net numbers for all the games played so far this year. Even with SO MANY more bad games than good, TP's numbers with the starters > Mills.

:lol I get that, obviously. I'm saying going with an average when a broken down Enrique probably can't reach that average is a flawed way to look at things. I'd be interested to see what his numbers look like when we exclude that good month or two, as that'll probably be closer to what we can expect from here on out.

[DPG21920]

:lol I get that, obviously. I'm saying going with an average when a broken down Enrique probably can't reach that average is a flawed way to look at things. I'd be interested to see what his numbers look like when we exclude that good month or two, as that'll probably be closer to what we can expect from here on out.

:lol I get what you are saying, but if these numbers are all-in maybe he's not as bad as often as you think he is. But yes, the fact he looks terrible post ASB after getting that knee knocked is a bad sign. I'm all for giving Mills more run but the offense, despite him shooting better than TP, will suffer most likely if he were the lead guard the majority of the game.

[MaNu4Tres]

And to M4T point, that is why (in addition to TP health lately) why you see Mills over TP in the 4th. In the 4th, the ball is in Kawhi's hands more anyways, so you don't need TP to initiate - you need better shooting which Mills provides.

I would much rather Spurs opt to not pick between TP or Mills late against Warriors or Rockets.

I'd throw out an Dedmon, Aldridge, Green, Simmons or Manu, Kawhi line up. Yes you give up a shooter, but there's no holes on the defensive perimeter vs. those two teams where 100% of their offensive is initiated from. I value more stops, and trust Kawhi and the boys to get in enough buckets.

[FkLA]

Both players have different warts offensively, but both have the same warts on defense that get exposed in the playoffs.

Parker is the better point guard and better facilitator, and he allows Kawhi to take a damn breath here and there. Mills is the opposite, he's not a facilitator -- but he's a better spot up shooter than Parker. Both have different strengths, but each of their strengths are inconsistent from a game to game basis. Mills isn't money every game from the perimeter, he's actually off more often than he's on. When he's on, he's on and he'll go 4 for 6, but he'll be off the next game, two, or three or four.

Utilizing Mills more at PG, could mean a step back from Kawhi from an efficiency or defensive standpoint because of the the type of stamina that's exerted in the playoffs. He will need some playmaking help offensively in order for him to sustain the type of defense that's needed to win games -- Mills can't provide that.

All in all, both players will consistently be abused as pinatas defensively in the playoffs, while being inconsistent from game to game with their strengths on offense... its inevitable. We've seen it the last two playoff runs. And it's hard to choose one or the other, both have major flaws and both have skill sets on the offensive end that help Kawhi in different ways.

That's a fair analysis. It is indeed hard to choose the better option. Thats why I have an issue with automatically annointing Enrique as being better. Honestly, part of the reason I want to go with Paddy is bc I'm tired of the same movie with a decrepit Enrique the past couple of years, not necessarily bc Paddy has stood out. It can't get any worse that '15 Enrique vs LAC can it? And maybe there's a chance Paddy gets hot from 3 during the postseason.

[DPG21920]

That's a fair analysis. It is indeed hard to choose the better option. Thats why I have an issue with automatically annointing Enrique as being better. Honestly, part of the reason I want to go with Paddy is bc I'm tired of the same movie with a decrepit Enrique the past couple of years, not necessarily bc Paddy has stood out. It can't get any worse that '15 Enrique vs LAC can it? And maybe there's a chance Paddy gets hot from 3 during the postseason.

Buddy, it can definitely get worse. When Mills is bringing the ball up like he did vs OKC and they are full court pressing him because they don't respect him sh*t gets worse :lol

[dabom]

That 2016 second unit was garbage besides Patty. Hard to get anything done with that lineup. Even fathead was playing. Look at him now. :lmao

Porker would have done worse. Patty past 3 postseasons is way better than anything porker has done. :lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

Buddy, it can definitely get worse. When Mills is bringing the ball up like he did vs OKC and they are full court pressing him because they don't respect him sh*t gets worse :lol

Or when Mills gets the opportunity to initiate out of the PnR, and he elects to throw up rushed off the dribble, step back/contested 18-20 footers with 13 on the clock.

Against playoff defense, he's really bad with the ball.

[dabom]

Or when Mills gets the opportunity to initiate out of the PnR, and he elects to throw up rushed off the dribble, step back/contested 18-20 footers with 13 on the clock.

Against playoff defense, he's really bad with the ball.

He's been better with it than porker. Wtf are you smoking? :lmao

[spurraider21]

starting patty and danny together means you have a backcourt tandem that is unable to do anything off the dribble. except maybe patty can pull up for a long jumper if the defender goes behind the screen.

not that TP is a worldbeater by any stretch, his decline is obvious. but he can handle a full court press and run a damn set besides a pick and roll jumper

[dabom]

starting patty and danny together means you have a backcourt tandem that is unable to do anything off the dribble. except maybe patty can pull up for a long jumper if the defender goes behind the screen.

What do you mean off the dribble? Explain.

[spurraider21]

What do you mean off the dribble? Explain.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1e3ooc/what_does_it_mean_when_they_say_offthedribble/

[dabom]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1e3ooc/what_does_it_mean_when_they_say_offthedribble/

Does that include dribbling and using a pick?

[dabom]

Because I haven't seen porker "off the dribble" these past few years. Much less the playoffs. :lol

[spurraider21]

Does that include dribbling and using a pick?


starting patty and danny together means you have a backcourt tandem that is unable to do anything off the dribble. except maybe patty can pull up for a long jumper if the defender goes behind the screen.

not that TP is a worldbeater by any stretch, his decline is obvious. but he can handle a full court press and run a damn set besides a pick and roll jumper

[DPG21920]

What do you mean off the dribble? Explain.

Is this a joke? If you don't know what that is please refrain from talking basketball. If you do know what it is and have chosen to ignore the fact that Mills is assisted on damn near 70% of his scores (as I have posted) then you are purposely being obtuse.

[dabom]

You edited your comment. Glad you could add that. So they are both average off the dribble then. So porker has no advantage there. So your whole point is moot. :lmao

[dabom]

Is this a joke? If you don't know what that is please refrain from talking basketball. If you do know what it is and have chosen to ignore the fact that Mills is assisted on damn near 70% of his scores (as I have posted) then you are purposely being obtuse.

Dude edited his comment. I do know what off the dribble means. Are you a fucking dumbass? :lmao

[DPG21920]

^ :lmao asks for the definition then tries to act like he knows what he's talking about.

[spurraider21]

You edited your comment. Glad you could add that. So they are both average off the dribble then. So porker has no advantage there. So your whole point is moot. :lmao


Dude edited his comment. I do know what off the dribble means. Are you a fucking dumbass? :lmaoyou responded with that dumbass question before the edit, which STILL answered the question :lmao

https://i.gyazo.com/46ca903e2aeecf99b0d354e9763dec11.png

[spurraider21]

I do know what off the dribble means. Are you a fucking dumbass? :lmao


What do you mean off the dribble? Explain.
:lmao

[dabom]

^ :lmao asks for the definition then tries to act like he knows what he's talking about.

Are you implying I didn't? :lol

Do you know what a lead question is? :lol

[dabom]

I guess every porker Stan is a dumbass today. :lol

[DPG21920]

The funny thing is TP's patented move is that off the dribble jumper going to his left.

[spurraider21]

:lmao doesn't know what "off the dribble" means and wants to evaluate point guards

[spurraider21]

whats next, is he going to try to evaluate centers but then ask "what does back to the basket mean?" :lmao

[DPG21920]

Are you implying I didn't? :lol

Do you know what a lead question is? :lol

A lead question :lol. Then why the hell are you ignoring the fact that Mills/Green are the players on the team that are the most highly assisted?

That shows you what they can do off of the dribble and what he meant by his statement.

[dabom]

A lead question :lol. Then why the hell are you ignoring the fact that Mills/Green are the players on the team that are the most highly assisted?

That shows you what they can do off of the dribble and what he meant by his statement.

Do you know what a lead question is? :lol

[dabom]

I shit I just did it again. I hope you think I know what it is. :lol

[dabom]

whats next, is he going to try to evaluate centers but then ask "what does back to the basket mean?" :lmao

Porker stans. :lmao

[DPG21920]

You're ok with me Dabom

[ElNono]

I think everybody wants TP healthy and springy for a playoff run, tbh, but how realistic is that?

And why should Paddy bear the burden of the blame if Tony is gassed out/hurt again?

When Manu has no legs in the playoffs, people don't bitch about Simmons or even Danny...

And if you agree that's not realistic to have a close to 100% TP when the big dance starts, why aren't we trying something else right now, tbh?

[DPG21920]

Just read the thread for the answers ^

[dabom]

I think everybody wants TP healthy and springy for a playoff run, tbh, but how realistic is that?

And why should Paddy bear the burden of the blame if Tony is gassed out/hurt again?

When Manu has no legs in the playoffs, people don't bitch about Simmons or even Danny...

And if you agree that's not realistic to have a close to 100% TP when the big dance starts, why aren't we trying something else right now, tbh?

This is actually true. No one bitches or deflects as much as the porker stans. :lol

[dabom]

You're ok with me Dabom

I have no problem with you either.

[DAF86]

:lmao doesn't know what "off the dribble" means and wants to evaluate point guards

Dude, don't pull mavkrew or djohn2oo8's patented move of dishonestly changing someone's quotes or, in this case, of taking dabom's comment literally when everybody knows he wasn't being literal. It's lame and makes you look bad. Even DMC's goalposts moving is better, tbh.

[spurraider21]

oh i'm sorry, if i called parker fat and jerked off manu, would you forgive me :cry

[dabom]

oh i'm sorry, if i called parker fat and jerked off patty, would you forgive me :cry

That's pretty imaginative, faggot. :lmao

[DPG21920]

ElGOAT Thread accomplishes goal

[8FOR!3]

There's still a chance we go into next season with him as a starter. I think if Ginobili stays Parker definitely starts. If Ginobili retires I could see us bringing Parker off the bench and him actually being somewhat effective. I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but if Ginobili retires I'd actually consider resigning Patty and starting him until Murray is ready which I doubt he will be to start the season next year.. I'm expecting Kawhi to continue to progress into his superstardom and get better at having the ball in his hands as the main ball handler. I'd like to see advanced metrics of how the Spurs fair with Patty in Parker's role in the normal starting lineups and vice versa with the bench. I think Parker would be more effective as a backup PG main bench scorer similar to Manu. The starting lineup doesn't really need a main ball handler in Parker if Kawhi can do it and Patty would be an extra shooter. Idk if Parker/Simmons/Kyle/Lee/Gasol is gonna cut it bc of lack of shooting but if Bertans develops and we don't resign Kyle or Lee and we had another shooter/scorer (ehh idk if Hanga is the answer here btw, probably not) and bring that one European big we drafted recently for spot minutes, we might can make it work.

We'll also have another late first round pick. But usually these guys aren't ready if they ever amount to anything.

[ElNono]

ElGOAT Thread accomplishes goal

tbh, this thread shoulda been over 4-5 posts into it when the comment about Pop came around... they just devolve into these fanboys threads for some reason....

[Brazil]

Best quote of this thread by FkLA tbh "I'm not an idiot"

:lol

[140]

OP with the goods, tbh...porker stans are so fucking sensitive :lol

[UZER]

I think everybody wants TP healthy and springy for a playoff run, tbh, but how realistic is that?

And why should Paddy bear the burden of the blame if Tony is gassed out/hurt again?

When Manu has no legs in the playoffs, people don't bitch about Simmons or even Danny...

And if you agree that's not realistic to have a close to 100% TP when the big dance starts, why aren't we trying something else right now, tbh?

Exactly. Tony and Manu being old is not a sin. It happens. But still relying on those guys to carry heavy loads in the playoffs is just asking for trouble, and more unfair than fair to those guys.

[superbigtime]

The Spurs can move on from Mills this offseason and look somewhere else, tbh. If they feel Murray is not ready, maybe they scavenge the league for a better suited PG.

Tony isn't going anywhere though (IMO)... we'll see what his role looks like going forward.

exactly this. Mills will be too costly and just not worth it. Spurs can surely find a seasoned PG because giving Murray the keys is premature.

[duncan2k5]

hopefully he shows up in the playoffs

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 he hasn't even shown up in the playoffs when he was good

[GSH]

Tony has been in a long, steady decline since 2012. Same story even if you look at his Per-36 numbers, so it isn't just that his minutes have decreased. His numbers now are just barely better than his rookie season. That's something that can't be ignored.

Possibly the most telling thing of all is that his FTA/Game and /36 are by far the worst of his career. In his better years, Parker averaged around 5 FTA per game. For his career, he's averaged 3.8. This season, he's averaging 1.8. When a guy like Parker can't get some bonus trips to the FT line, it's a sure sign that defenders can contain him without having to foul him. What I see is that this year he isn't even challenging enough to get many trips to the line.

Even if Parker is injured, it's beside the point. A long steady decline like he's been on, down to basically his rookie output levels? There's no way around that. If Patty had stepped up like was hoped, he'd be starting. Parker started as a rookie because the team didn't have anyone better. That's the same reason he's starting now.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

 he hasn't even shown up in the playoffs when he was good

07, 14

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Tony has been in a long, steady decline since 2012. Same story even if you look at his Per-36 numbers, so it isn't just that his minutes have decreased. His numbers now are just barely better than his rookie season. That's something that can't be ignored.

Possibly the most telling thing of all is that his FTA/Game and /36 are by far the worst of his career. In his better years, Parker averaged around 5 FTA per game. For his career, he's averaged 3.8. This season, he's averaging 1.8. When a guy like Parker can't get some bonus trips to the FT line, it's a sure sign that defenders can contain him without having to foul him. What I see is that this year he isn't even challenging enough to get many trips to the line.

Even if Parker is injured, it's beside the point. A long steady decline like he's been on, down to basically his rookie output levels? There's no way around that. If Patty had stepped up like was hoped, he'd be starting. Parker started as a rookie because the team didn't have anyone better. That's the same reason he's starting now.
true, we had just finally let AJ go, Steve Kerr was in Portland that year, Claxton was in Philly, and Antonio Daniels was a combo guard, not a PG.

also, TP was always a mediocre at best free throw shooter

[GSH]

true, we had just finally let AJ go, Steve Kerr was in Portland that year, Claxton was in Philly, and Antonio Daniels was a combo guard, not a PG.

also, TP was always a mediocre at best free throw shooter


You're right. Parker was never a great FT shooter. But it's not just the points from the FT's that matter. The fact that defenders are forced to foul you is a damned good indicator of a top-tier offensive player (other than spot-up perimeter shooters). Tony is a scoring PG, who got a lot of his points driving the paint. So for him it's even more serious that he's no longer able to force defenders to foul him. Drive-and-kick players are just not very effective when defenders don't really have to respect the drive.

If anyone needs an objective measure of just how far down the road he is, they don't have to look any further than the steady decline in that FTA number, and how painfully low it's become.

[duncan2k5]

Tony Parker is so indefensible I sometimes wonder if some of the Stans are indeed parker logging in under different accounts

[duncan2k5]

07, 14

U do realize we have been to the playoffs every year of his career?

[duncan2k5]

07, 14

U do realize we have been to the playoffs every year of his career?

[DPG21920]

So nice you have to say it twice ^

[dabom]

Tony Parker is so indefensible I sometimes wonder if some of the Stans are indeed parker logging in under different accounts

The guuds. :lol. :tu

[kaji157]

There's still a chance we go into next season with him as a starter. I think if Ginobili stays Parker definitely starts. If Ginobili retires I could see us bringing Parker off the bench and him actually being somewhat effective. I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but if Ginobili retires I'd actually consider resigning Patty and starting him until Murray is ready which I doubt he will be to start the season next year.. I'm expecting Kawhi to continue to progress into his superstardom and get better at having the ball in his hands as the main ball handler. I'd like to see advanced metrics of how the Spurs fair with Patty in Parker's role in the normal starting lineups and vice versa with the bench. I think Parker would be more effective as a backup PG main bench scorer similar to Manu. The starting lineup doesn't really need a main ball handler in Parker if Kawhi can do it and Patty would be an extra shooter. Idk if Parker/Simmons/Kyle/Lee/Gasol is gonna cut it bc of lack of shooting but if Bertans develops and we don't resign Kyle or Lee and we had another shooter/scorer (ehh idk if Hanga is the answer here btw, probably not) and bring that one European big we drafted recently for spot minutes, we might can make it work.

We'll also have another late first round pick. But usually these guys aren't ready if they ever amount to anything.
Sorry but if Manu retires you have to go for the best SG you can. And in order to do that you either resign patty on the cheap very early or renounce him.
We have 93 millions committed as it is.

[gambit1990]

Tony Parker is so indefensible I sometimes wonder if some of the Stans are indeed parker logging in under different accounts

[gambit1990]

the ball belongs in kawhi's hands. has anyone mentioned how useless parker is in that situation? at least patty spaces the floor.

[SpursforSix]

has anyone mentioned how useless parker is in that situation?

Did you mean "any and every" situation?

[coachmac87]

Tony Parker is the true definition of coasting tbh. Is he washed up? Yes. Can he still be effective when needed? Yes.


Health should be his only thing to worry about going forward. Pop has made it very clear to him...

There's nothing for him to play for tbh..he's not getting accolades anymore and until just recently playoff seeding wasn't a thought either. Is he hurt? Sure but there's a difference from being hurt and being injured.

[DAF86]

oh i'm sorry, if i called parker fat and jerked off manu, would you forgive me :cry

That's neither funny nor clever. Almost as bad as wasting time pretending not to understand the meaning of a post you quoted, tbh.

[gambit1990]

Did you mean "any and every" situation?
:lol

[tonight...you]

tony will really be able to spread the floor... he's shooting 36% from beyond the arc this season, good for 85th in the league :lol
:lol ... true, but he can, alternatively, feed the ball a bit better to players like LMA, should they be on the court together.
I guess we should resign ourselves to hoping that is the best that we can hope for, the next few seasons...

[TheGreatYacht]

I think everybody wants TP healthy and springy for a playoff run, tbh, but how realistic is that?

And why should Paddy bear the burden of the blame if Tony is gassed out/hurt again?

When Manu has no legs in the playoffs, people don't bitch about Simmons or even Danny...

And if you agree that's not realistic to have a close to 100% TP when the big dance starts, why aren't we trying something else right now, tbh?
Get the fuck outta here :lol Manure is Teflon around here in LatinoTalk. No one ever mentions his putrid playoff performances he's had in his career, last year especially.

Imagine if Parker put up 6/2/2 on 41FG% against the Thunder last year or shot 34.9FG% against the Clippers two years ago or had 14 turnovers in Game 6 and 7 of an NBA finals :lol

[ElNono]

Get the fuck outta here :lol Manure is steflon around here in LatinoTalk. No one ever mentions his putrid playoff performances he's had in his career, last year especially.

Imagine if Parker put up 6/2/2 on 41FG% against the Thunder last year or shot 34.9FG% against the Clippers two years ago or had 14 turnovers in Game 6 and 7 of an NBA finals :lol

Manu is 5 years older, averaged 19 mins per game, he's not a starter, and in the Clippers series didn't even closed some games, IIRC...

Yet he posted better PER, VORP, pretty much any advanced metric than Tony, if we're going to compare (which really we shouldn't considering they have pretty different roles at this stage, and apparently Tony has been injured in those series, that's what I hear here all the time anyways).

But Manu will silently shoulder the blame because he's not SuperManu anymore, tbh, he can't come around pulling a 2014 and win you decisive games...

[TheGreatYacht]

Manu is 5 years older, averaged 19 mins per game, he's not a starter, and in the Clippers series didn't even closed some games, IIRC...

Yet he posted better PER, VORP, pretty much any advanced metric than Tony, if we're going to compare (which really we shouldn't considering they have pretty different roles at this stage, and apparently Tony has been injured in those series, that's what I hear here all the time anyways).

But Manu will silently shoulder the blame because he's not SuperManu anymore, tbh, he can't come around pulling a 2014 and win you decisive games...
The bench was solely responsible for the OKC loss, everyone in that unit was godawful, yet all the ST blame still fell on Parker per par. Even Pop on his exit interview said the bench problem was going to be addressed in the offseason :lol

16th year as a starting PG, continuesly deep playoff runs, made a career out of attacking the paint and taking falls, turns 35 when playoffs start.... and he's still the best guard on the team. RC should've addressed having a young playmaker years ago but he didn't and now here we are.

[8FOR!3]

Sorry but if Manu retires you have to go for the best SG you can. And in order to do that you either resign patty on the cheap very early or renounce him.
We have 93 millions committed as it is.

Yeah I don't necessarily disagree, especially not on overpaying Patty. But I'm only gonna go after the best SG if the right guy is available. If not I'd look the draft/trade route at least for one season. Isn't Fournier a free agent?

[ElNono]

The bench was solely responsible for the OKC loss, everyone in that unit was godawful, yet all the ST blame still fell on Parker per par. Even Pop on his exit interview said the bench problem was going to be addressed in the offseason :lol

16th year as a starting PG, continuesly deep playoff runs, made a career out of attacking the paint and taking falls, turns 35 when playoffs start.... and he's still the best guard on the team. RC should've addressed having a young playmaker years ago but he didn't and now here we are.

:lol why are you singling out Manu then? Pop went and re-hired him. Clearly pointing that wasn't the issue.

I have nothing against Tony, tbh, said it on the OP. It's clear he's not the same (same as Manu), just wondering if he was hurt or something. Somebody responded, then came the Patty/Murray fluffers, etc that we all know and love (or love to hate).

I think Tony earned all sorts of respect, but that won't change that apparently he's too banged up when the playoffs roll around (and that's not a critique of him, it's not his fault he has the miles he has). I don't think we have a plan B (like, if we're being frank, we don't really have a plan B if Manu gets hurt, tbh, Simms has been fairly mediocre if you look at the season at large).

[TD 21]

Manu is 5 years older, averaged 19 mins per game, he's not a starter, and in the Clippers series didn't even closed some games, IIRC...

Yet he posted better PER, VORP, pretty much any advanced metric than Tony, if we're going to compare (which really we shouldn't considering they have pretty different roles at this stage, and apparently Tony has been injured in those series, that's what I hear here all the time anyways).

But Manu will silently shoulder the blame because he's not SuperManu anymore, tbh, he can't come around pulling a 2014 and win you decisive games...

Cliché as it is, it's true: it's not the age, it's the mileage and they're far closer in the latter than they are the former.

Many also gloss over the fact that, for obvious reasons, Parker was more speed/quickness reliant, so he was always going to have the more difficult time aging.

:lmao At Ginobili shouldering blame, with the exception of '13.

[ElNono]

:lmao At Ginobili shouldering blame, with the exception of '13.

He was absolutely murdered in '13, tbh, (and rightly so, BTW)... but people that give him credit for '14 are rare, and every year you have people complaining about why he didn't do more...

The reality is that there's plenty of people that just hasn't adjusted expectations to the reality that he can't give you more right now, that's why he plays the minutes he plays and has the role he has...

But nobody is blaming Green because he couldn't make up for Manu getting old, that was my point.

[DPG21920]

He was absolutely murdered in '13, tbh, (and rightly so, BTW)... but people that give him credit for '14 are rare, and every year you have people complaining about why he didn't do more...

The reality is that there's plenty of people that just hasn't adjusted expectations to the reality that he can't give you more right now, that's why he plays the minutes he plays and has the role he has...

But nobody is blaming Green because he couldn't make up for Manu getting old, that was my point.

No one is pretending Green replace Manu like people are with Mills.

[gambit1990]

last night: tony had 3 assists, 3 turnovers. patty had 4 assists, no turnovers.

[Strategic]

Another sheepish thread from Manu's Do Dad champion, the goat of player haters. Just for kicks, I'm sure.

[MaNu4Tres]

Cliché as it is, it's true: it's not the age, it's the mileage and they're far closer in the latter than they are the former.

Many also gloss over the fact that, for obvious reasons, Parker was more speed/quickness reliant, so he was always going to have the more difficult time aging.

:lmao At Ginobili shouldering blame, with the exception of '13.

Parkers' effectiveness and value has always been exclusively tied to significant offensive production. Once his speed/quickness declined his overall value tanked because he brings nothing else to the table. Much like Kevin Johnson.

Manu and Tim were able to age well because of their superior overall game. On offense their games weren't reliant on speed/quickness. And they were always great defenders, even late in their careers.

[GSH]

No one is pretending Green replace Manu like people are with Mills.


Everybody knows that Anderson is Manu's replacement.

[sasaint]

Everybody knows that Anderson is Manu's replacement.

Oh boy, here we go...

[dabom]

Oh boy, here we go...

:lol

[gambit1990]

from december:



OBPM
DBPM
BPM
VORP


-1.0
-2.3
-3.3
-0.2



those numbers are probably gonna stay in the negative for the rest of the season.

to tony's credit, those numbers have improved. now they're: -0.7, -1.9, -2.6, his VORP is still -0.2.

patty's numbers in those categories are noticeablely better, e.g., his VORP is 1.1.

[TD 21]

He was absolutely murdered in '13, tbh, (and rightly so, BTW)... but people that give him credit for '14 are rare, and every year you have people complaining about why he didn't do more...

The reality is that there's plenty of people that just hasn't adjusted expectations to the reality that he can't give you more right now, that's why he plays the minutes he plays and has the role he has...

But nobody is blaming Green because he couldn't make up for Manu getting old, that was my point.

I specifically said, "with the exception of '13".

:lmao On this board, Leonard and Ginobili are given the most credit for '14 and on balance, Ginobili has probably been the least criticized and most beloved, of the big 3, by this fan base.



Parkers' effectiveness and value has always been exclusively tied to significant offensive production. Once his speed/quickness declined his overall value tanked because he brings nothing else to the table. Much like Kevin Johnson.

Manu and Tim were able to age well because of their superior overall game. On offense their games weren't reliant on speed/quickness. And they were always great defenders, even late in their careers.

I said as much, but people act as if there's something he could have done about that. Small guards, in general, age the worst, because they have the least margin for error. Stockton and Nash aged well and Paul probably will too into his mid-late 30's, but that's about it, at least in the modern era.

People complain about his 3-point shooting or lack thereof, but he's actually developed into a solid one in recent years and I suspect we'll see more of it with Leonard's continued ascent and the likelihood that teams trap him more, like the Rockets did last night.

[DAF86]

I specifically said, "with the exception of '13".

:lmao On this board, Leonard and Ginobili are given the most credit for '14 and on balance, Ginobili has probably been the least criticized and most beloved, of the big 3, by this fan base.




I said as much, but people act as if there's something he could have done about that. Small guards, in general, age the worst, because they have the least margin for error. Stockton and Nash aged well and Paul probably will too into his mid-late 30's, but that's about it, at least in the modern era.

People complain about his 3-point shooting or lack thereof, but he's actually developed into a solid one in recent years and I suspect we'll see more of it with Leonard's continued ascent and the likelihood that teams trap him more, like the Rockets did last night.

We can't seriously say Tony developed a solid 3 pt shot when he makes 1 every 5 games, tbh. What good does a 40% 3pt % does if you barely take 3's and can't keep a defense honest? I would prefer a 36% with a lot more attempts per game and between 1 and 2 makes per contest.

[SASdynasty!]

last night: tony had 3 assists, 3 turnovers. patty had 4 assists, no turnovers.
I'm glad you want to compare stats from last night:

Parker: 19/3/6 on 50%
Mills: 5/4/2 on 29%

[SASdynasty!]

We can't seriously say Tony developed a solid 3 pt shot when he makes 1 every 5 games, tbh. What good does a 40% 3pt % does if you barely take 3's and can't keep a defense honest? I would prefer a 36% with a lot more attempts per game and between 1 and 2 makes per contest.
1 every 5 games? I love how Parker haters have to exaggerate to make Parker seem ineffective.

[DAF86]

1 every 5 games? I love how Parker haters have to exaggerate to make Parker seem ineffective.

1 every 2, 3, 4. I don't know. My point is that if he could develop a consistent 3pt shot that allows him to hit at least 1 three per game and be a consistent 3pt threat out there, he would be a lot more serviceable. In today's NBA having only 2 guys (Leonard and Green) in your SL that can ptovide volume 3pt shooting is a major weakness.

[SASdynasty!]

1 every 2, 3, 4. I don't know. My point is that if he could develop a consistent 3pt shot that allows him to hit at least 1 three per game and be a consistent 3pt threat out there, he would be a lot more serviceable. In today's NBA having only 2 guys (Leonard and Green) in your SL that can ptovide volume 3pt shooting is a major weakness.
I've always agreed we need to increase Parker's shooting volume. Especially since we haven't made a deep playoff run since he took a backseat.

[DAF86]

I've always agreed we need to increase Parker's shooting volume. Especially since we haven't made a deep playoff run since he took a backseat.

I don't know about shooting volume in general, but he definitely needs to step up his three pts attempts. He needs to stop taking those spot up 20 footers and transform them into spot up three pointers.

[ElNono]

Everybody knows that Anderson is Manu's replacement.

oh shit

[UZER]

1 every 2, 3, 4. I don't know. My point is that if he could develop a consistent 3pt shot that allows him to hit at least 1 three per game and be a consistent 3pt threat out there, he would be a lot more serviceable. In today's NBA having only 2 guys (Leonard and Green) in your SL that can ptovide volume 3pt shooting is a major weakness.

Word. Players completely ignore him out there. They go way under screens creating horrible spacing issues if Tony is not going to shoot a threat to shoot threes.

Hell, the only reason he was open last night is because of that exact reason. Everyone was ignoring him.

[MultiTroll]

1 every 5 games? I love how Parker haters have to exaggerate to make Parker seem ineffective.
Great! Here is a little more love for you.
When it counts, that being in the playoffs:
0-9 vs Clippers in 2015.
4-15 vs Grizzles and OKC in 2016.
4-25 the last two playoff years.

When exactly in Kwas ascension is Parker going to "develop" that 3 point shot?"

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Frenchie McWonderbutt finally got old :sad

[tonight...you]

Frenchie McWonderbutt finally got old :sad

Lotta good shit he gave getting here, though. He'll have a retired jersey and a place in the HOF, before it's all said and done.

Not to mention a hot ass french wife, and some memories/stories most of us could only dream about.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Lotta good shit he gave getting here, though. He'll have a retired jersey and a place in the HOF, before it's all said and done.

Not to mention a hot ass french wife, and some memories/stories most of us could only dream about.

He was always the least appreciated member of the Big3, but as he came into his prime, he was the one who really turned the SA offense into something to be feared. Enjoyed his time as "head of the snake." People forget he was a legit top 5 player in this league, and damn near borderline MVP for stretches.

[DMC]

If it wasn't for nationalism in this forum, TP and Manu would be considered part and parcel of the Spurs instead of rivals.

[Brazil]

If it wasn't for Argentinean nationalism in this forum, TP and Manu would be considered part and parcel of the Spurs instead of rivals.

fify

[dabom]

fify

Again French people placing blame on Argentinians. :lmao

[Brazil]

Again French people placing blame on Argentinians. :lmao

give me a French of this board hating or having hated Manu...

[DMC]

fify

:lol

[dabom]

give me a French of this board hating or having hated Manu...

Changing the goal post. Not acknowledging what you clearly did. :lmao

[gambit1990]

Again French people placing blame on Argentinians. :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

fify
:lol Argies have an inferiority complex tbh

[ElNono]

:lol Argies largely hate Argentina, tbh... especially national sport icons...

Brazil should know, tbh, he's been around...

We had a French mod running this site for a while, pretty far from unbiased too if we're being honest...

[dabom]

:lol Argies largely hate Argentina, tbh... especially national sport icons...

Brazil should know, tbh, he's been around...

We had a French mod running this site for a while, pretty far from unbiased too if we're being honest...
Bruno. :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

The mods can be from the fucking Falkland Islands. I was wrongly pinked for not bowing down to Manure. Why are the mods trying to silence Parker fans tbh?

[DAF86]

give me a French of this board hating or having hated Manu...

To be completely fair, Tony is way more easy to hate than Manu. :lol

[Brazil]

To be completely fair, Tony is way more easy to hate than Manu. :lol

quod erat demonstrandum

:lol

[Brazil]

Bruno does not hate Manu, never did... not meaning he was unbiased or something.. nobody is

now I won't even start to list all Argies hating on Parker... too long... globally all with Manu or Diego in the name or Nono tbh

for the record, I don't think DAF is a Parker hater more a Manu homer that wants no harm to other players

But again if your only example of French hating on Manu is Bruno I'm in the right direction saying "If it wasn't for Argentinean nationalism in this forum, TP and Manu would be considered part and parcel of the Spurs instead of rivals."

[Brazil]

:lol Argies largely hate Argentina, tbh... especially national sport icons...



btw this is not true for Manu... you have argies hating on diego and messi but never on manu... manu is a beloved icon tbh

[ElNono]

btw this is not true for Manu... you have argies hating on diego and messi but never on manu... manu is a beloved icon tbh

Not true, tbh, when he didn't play for the NT on a WC or a qualified, they'll blast him as a greedy guy that only plays for money... :lol

Argies are neurotic, you know that by now, tbh... the live constantly shitting on their country until a foreigner does, then they're ultra nationalists... it's just weird.

No wonder they have the largest amounts of shrinks per capita in the world...

[Brazil]

Not true, tbh, when he didn't play for the NT on a WC or a qualified, they'll blast him as a greedy guy that only plays for money... :lol

Argies are neurotic, you know that by now, tbh... the live constantly shitting on their country until a foreigner does, then they're ultra nationalists... it's just weird.

No wonder they have the largest amounts of shrinks per capita in the world...

Ive never ever met an Argentinian hating manu tbh... not being happy because he is not playing for NT is quite different of hating him :lol

[gambit1990]

I think everybody wants TP healthy and springy for a playoff run, tbh, but how realistic is that?

And why should Paddy bear the burden of the blame if Tony is gassed out/hurt again?

When Manu has no legs in the playoffs, people don't bitch about Simmons or even Danny...

And if you agree that's not realistic to have a close to 100% TP when the big dance starts, why aren't we trying something else right now, tbh?
kings would be a perfect team for murray to start against.

[Mikeanaro]

When Spurs were sealing the game Manu was happy as a kid and Porker had a big ass face, almost farting, did anyone notice that?

[HarlemHeat37]

We'll see... this is a league that paid 3/$21m to Boban to warm up the bench because "Pop coached him for a year" (can't really understand any other reason). Heck, bad contracts are the norm in the league, tbh... the Spurs are more or less an outlier on that, with guys like Green (and even Patty's current deal) being good value.

Of course Patty is going to get paid, this is the NBA:lol

I've been skeptical about the Spurs' paying him(not whether they will, but rather whether they should, since they need a more conventional PG), but as I've been saying, he'll be starting somewhere next season IMO or 6th man, at least..



Gregg Popovich, who said that he was "pretty special" in tonight's game. Kings coach Dave Joerger agreed, saying, "Patty Mills is a heck of a player. He is a starter on a lot of teams, so he was a tough cover."

There are plenty of mid to bottom-tier teams that will pay for a 3-point shooter with championship experience and a great attitude..

[ElNono]

Of course Patty is going to get paid, this is the NBA:lol

I've been skeptical about the Spurs' paying him(not whether they will, but rather whether they should, since they need a more conventional PG), but as I've been saying, he'll be starting somewhere next season IMO or 6th man, at least..




There are plenty of mid to bottom-tier teams that will pay for a 3-point shooter with championship experience and a great attitude..

I agree. I think we'll lose him after some team throws idiotic money at him, tbh

[sasaint]

When Spurs were sealing the game Manu was happy as a kid and Porker had a big ass face, almost farting, did anyone notice that?

No, I wish I had. Tony has got to be chapped at having others play in crunch time of virtually every game while he warms the bench. If his attitude is starting to show, I doubt that PATFO will tolerate that - even from Pop's French pet. I am beginning to seriously wonder if Tony will be a Spur next season. That could have ramifications for Patty, too.

[DPG21920]

I really don't see why so many people think Mills is a starter. I mean I'm reading these statements from coaches and writers in the NBA so the view of Mills is indeed that.

[HarlemHeat37]

I really don't see why so many people think Mills is a starter. I mean I'm reading these statements from coaches and writers in the NBA so the view of Mills is indeed that.

I think he could fit as a starter on teams with ball-dominant wing players, such as Chicago or Milwaukee(although they're high on Brogdon), for example..I could also see dysfunctional franchises throwing money at him to get a competent player that could bring some of the "Spurs culture", like the Kings or Knicks(this may sound strange, but we've seen it the past few years, with teams making a play for even the Spurs' end of bench guys)..

[DPG21920]

^That is all correct - let me clarify what I meant. I meant playoff team starting PG. From things I've read GMs seem to REALLY value Mills in THAT regard. He's a good player but if you're a playoff team or hopeful playoff team and you need a truly competent PG (not a fake one like in CHI w/ Jimmy being the ball dominate guy) I don't see it.

[gambit1990]

would love if tony only played ~16 minutes like last night. it's closer to 0 than the ~25 minutes he usually plays.

[DAF86]

^That is all correct - let me clarify what I meant. I meant playoff team starting PG. From things I've read GMs seem to REALLY value Mills in THAT regard. He's a good player but if you're a playoff team or hopeful playoff team and you need a truly competent PG (not a fake one like in CHI w/ Jimmy being the ball dominate guy) I don't see it.

History shows that off ball PGs > "trully competent PGs" for teams with championship aspirations, tbh.

[BillMc]

Tony is out tonight according to ESPN

[DPG21920]

Smh

[gambit1990]

Tony is out tonight according to ESPN
awesome.

[HarlemHeat37]

awesome.

:lol

[Down Under]

^That is all correct - let me clarify what I meant. I meant playoff team starting PG. From things I've read GMs seem to REALLY value Mills in THAT regard. He's a good player but if you're a playoff team or hopeful playoff team and you need a truly competent PG (not a fake one like in CHI w/ Jimmy being the ball dominate guy) I don't see it.Still praying Dedmon takes the MLE (8.4 million IIRC) but I can't even see that happening. Both him and Mills are going to get 8 figures I would say.

[SpursIndonesia]

I've been in this forum since its early days, and i love both them Manu & TP equally. Being an Indonesian, i can claim some impartiality in this issue. This shit develops from the fact that Manu was the better perimeter player back in the day, but the ball spent much time in TP's hand as the team starting PG. He being a scoring PG made him toxic to a lot of Manu's faithful. Not to mention Pop's decision to make Manu the bench anchor, it was seen as a disrespect by the guy fans since the lesser player was getting all the glory in the starting line up. It is what it is.

[gambit1990]

played 16 minutes, sat out the next night against okc due to "back stiffness". manu's reason for sitting out was "rest".

no update on his condition? he's playing tomorrow?