Bill Simmons and Zache Lowe on the Spurs

[Amuseddaysleeper]

https://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/ep-187-zach-lowe-on-the-nbas-wild-wild-west

Start from the 50 minute mark.


Some great points brought up by Simmons. Who on the Spurs outside of Kawhi is better than they were 3 years ago? And he also says what I and some other posters have been saying all season. Outside of Kawhi, who can they rely on consistently? Zach feels the Spurs are the team to beat assuming GS still has healthy issues come playoff time. Simmons thinks Houston will beat the Spurs.

Simmons also says Kawhi is the greatest perimeter defender he's ever seen.


Great conversation :tu

[rjv]

how can simmons claim an H-town victory? Who can they rely on outside of the three point shot? What happens when the game slows down to a half-court set? When the whistles stop? When they have to get three or four defensive stops in the last few minutes of the game?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

how can simmons claim an H-town victory? Who can they rely on outside of the three point shot? What happens when the game slows down to a half-court set? When the whistles stop? When they have to get three or four defensive stops in the last few minutes of the game?

Houston has the ability to get the shots they want, a majority of the Spurs wins were nail biters and one of them took one of the most miraculous comebacks we have seen all season. Spurs have no answer for Harden and while I liked their defense in the fourth quarter against Houston in the last game, they eeked it out with a superhuman performance from Kawhi. Harden is a tough cover and while they're sketchy defensively at times, their offense is incredible.

I absolutely think Houston can beat the Spurs in a series, as the Spurs will need several players to step up. It's nice to see our outside shot falling lately, but if only Kawhi shows up we will be screwed.

[TheGreatYacht]

Spurs need to go all out for the first seed. Houston will be an annoying team for sure

Houston has a Top-2 MVP candidate and Spurs killer Harden. Three microwaves coming off the bench in Lou, Gordon, and Nene. Two defensive specialists in Beverley and Ariza. Manu killer Ryan Anderson....

Spurs fans should know that a team can get hot for a whole series (OKC)

[will_spurs]

how can simmons claim an H-town victory?

Simmons = Celtics fan = hates the Spurs since they drafted Duncan = will pick whichever team to win it all as long as it's not the Spurs.

[BillMc]

Am I an idiot (ok, yes) but is there no way to skip ahead to the 50 minute mark. Not listening to almost an hour of this just for one Spurs part

[spursistan]

The high variance of the 3 point shot, upon which they are relying at a historical rate, makes predicting Houston playoffs campaign a tricky exercise..they could literally beat and lose to anyone outside the 8th seed in the West..

I hope Spurfans aren't reading too much in 3-1 regular season series..that cold have gone their way, too..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Am I an idiot (ok, yes) but is there no way to skip ahead to the 50 minute mark. Not listening to almost an hour of this just for one Spurs part

Yes you can, if you move your mouse over the soundwave thing you will see the timer adjust. Eventually you hover the mouse over the 50 minute mark and click it. Starts there instantly :tu

Hope that makes sense

[TheGreatYacht]

The high variance of the 3 point shot, upon which they are relying at a historical rate, makes predicting Houston playoffs campaign a tricky exercise..they could literally beat and lose to anyone outside the 8th seed in the West..

I hope Spurfans aren't reading too much in 3-1 regular season series..that cold have gone their way, too..
They lead the league in 3PA and FTA. Not sure that's ever happened before, but that's not a good sight if foul machine Deadman is your starting Center :lol He was -12 in 9 minutes against them. Was unplayable.

[BillMc]

Yes you can, if you move your mouse over the soundwave thing you will see the timer adjust. Eventually you hover the mouse over the 50 minute mark and click it. Starts there instantly :tu

Hope that makes sense

It does but it doesn't work for me. I click and nothing happens.

[Dex]

The high variance of the 3 point shot, upon which they are relying at a historical rate, makes predicting Houston playoffs campaign a tricky exercise..they could literally beat and lose to anyone outside the 8th seed in the West..

I hope Spurfans aren't reading too much in 3-1 regular season series..that cold have gone their way, too..

Exactly. A series with Houston will come down to two things: how well the Spurs control the pace, and how well they defend the three point line.

If Houston goes cold, the Spurs probably win pretty handily in 5.

If Houston is able to get production from deep...it probably goes to 6 or 7, and could really go either way.

[Dex]

It does but it doesn't work for me. I click and nothing happens.

Maybe try a different browser? I was able to skip ahead in Firefox without issue.

[BillMc]

Maybe try a different browser? I was able to skip ahead in Firefox without issue.


Good call. I went from Chrome to Explorer and now it works. Many thanks!:toast

[Chews]

Good call. I went from Chrome to Explorer and now it works. Many thanks!:toast

Bill. Get your shit together, man.

[BillMc]

Bill. Get your shit together, man.
I'll do my best. This world frightens and confuses me, you've machines that fly, but one thing I do know is Kawhi is MVP.

[Chews]

I'll do my best. This world frightens and confuses me, you've machines that fly, but one thing I do know is Kawhi is MVP.

:claw

[james evans]

mfs in here worried about houston. Damn we got some of the most paranoid fan base in all of basketball.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

It does but it doesn't work for me. I click and nothing happens.

Maybe the podcast is on iTunes? Not worth all the trouble but an interesting listen.

[cd98]

Houston is the media's shiny new toy now that GSW and Cavs have become a little stale. But they'll get bored quick when yet another D'Antoni team overachieved in the regular season only to be kicked around in the playoffs.

[BatManu20]

mfs in here worried about houston. Damn we got some of the most paranoid fan base in all of basketball.

Houston is a legit threat tbh.

[gospursgojas]

We beat Hou in 5. Not even close.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not sure what Rockets you can count on outside of Harden. I'm not sure what Thunder you can count on outside of Westbrook. This is an easy game to play.

Anderson is better than he was three years ago. Dedmon is better than he was three years ago. David Lee is actually better than he was three years ago.

The Rockets look like a big threat. Their problem is D'Antoni problems. They can only win in one way. If a team figures them out, all they can do is the same thing, harder. They depend utterly on one player to stir the drink. They cannot be counted on defensively. They depend on outside shooting and when sphincters start clenching late in playoff series, the shots can stop falling.

[phxspurfan]

https://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/ep-187-zach-lowe-on-the-nbas-wild-wild-west

Start from the 50 minute mark.


Some great points brought up by Simmons. Who on the Spurs outside of Kawhi is better than they were 3 years ago? And he also says what I and some other posters have been saying all season. Outside of Kawhi, who can they rely on consistently? Zach feels the Spurs are the team to beat assuming GS still has healthy issues come playoff time. Simmons thinks Houston will beat the Spurs.

Simmons also says Kawhi is the greatest perimeter defender he's ever seen.


Great conversation :tu

We will need to go back to 2014 ball movement. I think Pop is starting to realize that as well, if you re-watch the ATL game from last night he is now focusing on finding your teammate, skip passes, ball movement and crisp shooting. Pop probably knows after last year that we can't rely on iso-ing Kawhi and LMA all game, even if LMA is healthy. But down the stretch you know who we are working the offense through.

[TheGreatYacht]

Lol casual fans that haven't watched the Rockets play

[TDomination]

I believe the spurs would beat Houston in the playoffs. 6 games. All close games except game 6...which would be a blowout.

And it would seem to make sense to end up matching up with Houston this year, the year after Duncan retires, since Houston was the only WC Team Duncan never beat in the playoffs since he never played them.

[GSH]

Houston can beat anybody in the league. I just don't think they can beat everybody in the league. They will have a series where the 3's are falling like rain, and win it. They will have one where they aren't, and go fishing. It's the Spurs' job, if they meet, to make sure they aren't raining 3's.

[rjv]

Houston can beat anybody in the league. I just don't think they can beat everybody in the league. They will have a series where the 3's are falling like rain, and win it. They will have one where they aren't, and go fishing. It's the Spurs' job, if they meet, to make sure they aren't raining 3's. well, i any team could do it, you would have to think it would be one that leads the league in three point FG %.

[CosmicCowboy]

Fuck the rockets. Designated assassin slams Hardin into the scorers table suns déjà vu.

[coachmac87]

Houston is the media's shiny new toy now that GSW and Cavs have become a little stale. But they'll get bored quick when yet another D'Antoni team overachieved in the regular season only to be kicked around in the playoffs.

Hits nail on head....:

[DAF86]

Fuck Simmons and his "I thought Harden was going to be the next Ginobili but he ended up being much, much better" comment, tbh.

How do you know Harden "ended up being much, much better"? Just because he got traded and went from being a 6th man to having the chance of getting all those 1st option gaudy stats? What does Harden do "much, much better" than prime Manu? Attack the basket, shoot the 3, pass the ball, rebound, defend? :lol

[SPURt]

Fuck Simmons and his "I thought Harden was going to be the next Ginobili but he ended up being much, much better" comment, tbh.

How do you know Harden "ended up being much, much better"? Just because he got traded and went from being a 6th man to having the chance of getting all those 1st option gaudy stats? What does Harden do "much, much better" than prime Manu? Attack the basket, shoot the 3, pass the ball, rebound, defend? :lol
I was surprised Zach, a self proclaimed fan of Ginobili, didn't push back on that.

[Keepin' it real]

Ginobili never put up these numbers and was never an MVP candidate. Easy call.

[tmtcsc]

Simmons also says Kawhi is the greatest perimeter defender he's ever seen.


What a bunch of bullshit. Kawhi's terrific, one of the best, but I'd take Bowen over him on defense - especially when it came to defending point guards.

[DAF86]

Ginobili never put up these numbers and was never an MVP candidate. Easy call.

Neither would be Harden if he stayed on OKC to be their 6th man. He could probably have a championship or two by now though.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don't think it's so blasphemous to say Harden is better than Ginobili. And this coming from someone who has Ginobili as his #1 athlete of all time.

[spurraider21]

Neither would be Harden if he stayed on OKC to be their 6th man. He could probably have a championship or two by now though.harden has put up the numbers. i think manu could have, but it's pure speculation

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Neither would be Harden if he stayed on OKC to be their 6th man. He could probably have a championship or two by now though.

Exactly

Ask Manu which he would rather have... Hollow, meaningless numbers or 4 titles, lol

[coachmac87]

There's no James Harden without Manu Ginobili tbh...

What he did in the Olympics is probably one of the best things in sports history...

[TheGreatYacht]

Harden in Houston (Age 23-27):
27.3ppg, 5.8rpg, 7.4apg, 60.7TS%, 25.1PER, .228 WS/48, 7.2 BPM

Per-36 Ginobili's first 5 seasons (Age 25-29):
18.1ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.5apg, 58.4TS%, 20.7PER, .215 WS/48, 5.8 BPM

I know some of you are hardcore Manu fanboys, but c'mon :lol this isn't even close. Not only would Manu not be able to match those numbers, he wouldn't even be able to play 36 minutes a game without tearing a hammy lmfao.

[lilbthebasedgod]

Harden is way better than Ginobili this isn't a debate and I love Ginobili.

[dabom]

Harden in Houston (Age 23-27):
27.3ppg, 5.8rpg, 7.4apg, 60.7TS%, 25.1PER, .228 WS/48, 7.2 BPM

Per-36 Ginobili's first 5 seasons (Age 25-29):
18.1ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.5apg, 58.4TS%, 20.7PER, .215 WS/48, 5.8 BPM

I know some of you are hardcore Manu fanboys, but c'mon :lol this isn't even close. Not only would Manu not be able to match those numbers, he wouldn't even be able to play 36 minutes a game with tearing a hammy lmfao.

Dude was getting cucked in the Finals instead. :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

What he did in the Olympics is probably one of the best things in sports history...
That 2004 Team USA squad was a world juggernaut. Only Argentina could've beaten that dream team, oh wait.....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YyP05nWq9fg/hqdefault.jpg

Future HOF, Carlos Arroyo, did it :wow

[ElNono]

That 2004 Team USA squad was a world juggernaut. Only Argentina could've beaten that dream team, oh wait.....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YyP05nWq9fg/hqdefault.jpg

Future HOF, Carlos Arroyo, did it :wow

tbf, Argentina was the only team to beat them twice. Obviously, that Argentina generation is long gone....

[ElNono]

About Houston, not that it matters, but IIRC, the Rockets have never lost a playoff series against the Spurs...

[SPURt]

About Houston, not that it matters, but IIRC, the Rockets have never lost a playoff series against the Spurs...
It'd be shades of 95 if Kawhi becomes MVP, hopefully it ends differently

[Seventyniner]

About Houston, not that it matters, but IIRC, the Rockets have never lost a playoff series against the Spurs...

The closest it got was 2014, the Rockets would have played the Spurs in round 2 if they hadn't gotten upset by Portland.

I still wish that Phoenix had gotten the 8th seed instead of Dallas and that Houston had beaten Portland. Then after the Spurs won the title they would have won the most recent playoff series they played against every other Western conference team (plus the Heat, Cavs, Pistons, Nets, and Knicks, and perhaps some others from when the Spurs were in the East).

[DAF86]

I don't think it's so blasphemous to say Harden is better than Ginobili. And this coming from someone who has Ginobili as his #1 athlete of all time.

I'm not saying is blasphemous to say Harden > Ginobili. I just don't think it's fair to have as a foregone conclusion that Harden is without a doubt a "much, much better" player than Manu ever was.

Do you think Simmons would be saying this if Harden was still the 6th man in OKC? Of course he wouldn't. And I'm sure the same shit would happen if Manu would have had the chance to prove himself as a number one option on an NBA team.

Take the stats out of the window for a moment and just think about Manu's and Harden's games. What does Harden do that prime Manu wasn't able to do?

-Elite rim attack and finishing? Check.
-Getting to the line? Check.
-Elite passing and playmaking? Check.
-3pt shooting? Check.
-3pt shooting off the dribble? Check.

If anything, the big difference I can find between the two is on defense and is in favour of Manu, tbrh.

The only knock on Manu could be the stamina/durability thing, but imho that shit has always been overblown.

[Chinook]

Being a better player does not mean that you're putting up better stats. I'd argue that Patty and Danny are better than they were three years ago because their IQs have gone up while they haven't physically declined. LMA is iffy, because he hasn't really shown any signs that he can still explode for more than one game in a stretch. Obviously, Anderson/Simmons are better, and Lee will likely play his current role better than he played his old one.

More importantly, I don't get why this is a standard to measure anything. The Medium Three era Spurs would have beaten any team in a series today. They had everything but a consistently dominant front-court player. They don't have to beat at that level to beat Houston. They're going to struggle to find reliable scoring in the playoffs, and Harden's been the only "reliable" one against the Spurs so far -- and that's with Pop often putting Simmons and Manu on him for long stretches. They aren't built for playoff dominance.

[spursgu]

mfs in here worried about houston. Damn we got some of the most paranoid fan base in all of basketball.

Chickenshit faggots in here are worried about every team in the West minus possibly the Grizzlies.

[sasaint]

Being a better player does not mean that you're putting up better stats. I'd argue that Patty and Danny are better than they were three years ago because their IQs have gone up while they haven't physically declined. LMA is iffy, because he hasn't really shown any signs that he can still explode for more than one game in a stretch. Obviously, Anderson/Simmons are better, and Lee will likely play his current role better than he played his old one.

More importantly, I don't get why this is a standard to measure anything. The Medium Three era Spurs would have beaten any team in a series today. They had everything but a consistently dominant front-court player. They don't have to beat at that level to beat Houston. They're going to struggle to find reliable scoring in the playoffs, and Harden's been the only "reliable" one against the Spurs so far -- and that's with Pop often putting Simmons and Manu on him for long stretches. They aren't built for playoff dominance.

Nope. Built by D'Antoni.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Good listen, thanks for posting.

[diego]

That 2004 Team USA squad was a world juggernaut. Only Argentina could've beaten that dream team, oh wait.....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YyP05nWq9fg/hqdefault.jpg

Future HOF, Carlos Arroyo, did it :wow

That team had two former mvps, all NBA and all Stars in Marbury and marion, a couple roys in amaré and Lebron, coys in brown and pop... You're comparing regular season with playoffs, Arroyo has never eliminated the US from a gold medal, Argentina did it twice, at home in Indianapolis (a team that also had a bunch of all Stars and all NBA players like j. O'Neal, Ben Wallace, Paul Pierce), then at the Olympics where the "real" team was gonna show. Roster wise, that 04 team would be a contender in just about any season, nevermind in the Olympics playing against athletically inferior opponents. It could have been better but it's a huge exaggeration to imply they were terrible rosters either in 04 or 02.

[Vic Petro]

The Rockets are damn good, but they want no part of the Spurs.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I'm not saying is blasphemous to say Harden > Ginobili. I just don't think it's fair to have as a foregone conclusion that Harden is without a doubt a "much, much better" player than Manu ever was.

Do you think Simmons would be saying this if Harden was still the 6th man in OKC? Of course he wouldn't. And I'm sure the same shit would happen if Manu would have had the chance to prove himself as a number one option on an NBA team.

Take the stats out of the window for a moment and just think about Manu's and Harden's games. What does Harden do that prime Manu wasn't able to do?

-Elite rim attack and finishing? Check.
-Getting to the line? Check.
-Elite passing and playmaking? Check.
-3pt shooting? Check.
-3pt shooting off the dribble? Check.

If anything, the big difference I can find between the two is on defense and is in favour of Manu, tbrh.

The only knock on Manu could be the stamina/durability thing, but imho that shit has always been overblown.

Great points :tu

I wouldn't say much much better, I just meant better.

Ginobili was also much more of a wizard on the court than Harden is. Harden is a good playmaker but some of the passes Ginobili I still can't wrap my head around to this day.

[spurs10]

I'll do my best. This world frightens and confuses me, you've machines that fly, but one thing I do know is Kawhi is MVP. You are so right Bill, this world is relentlessly cruel, but Kawhi is indeed MVP. :claw

[FkLA]

Harden has yet to perform on the big stage like Prime Manu did. He choked in the Finals with OKC and Houston's best playoff run since he joined them was ignited by Josh Smith and with Harden off the floor.

Its definitely dumb to already call him much much better than Ginobili.

[rjv]

Being a better player does not mean that you're putting up better stats. I'd argue that Patty and Danny are better than they were three years ago because their IQs have gone up while they haven't physically declined. LMA is iffy, because he hasn't really shown any signs that he can still explode for more than one game in a stretch. Obviously, Anderson/Simmons are better, and Lee will likely play his current role better than he played his old one.

More importantly, I don't get why this is a standard to measure anything. The Medium Three era Spurs would have beaten any team in a series today. They had everything but a consistently dominant front-court player. They don't have to beat at that level to beat Houston. They're going to struggle to find reliable scoring in the playoffs, and Harden's been the only "reliable" one against the Spurs so far -- and that's with Pop often putting Simmons and Manu on him for long stretches. They aren't built for playoff dominance. hell, this Houston team is no where near as talented as the suns teams D'Antonio couldn't win with a decade ago. And just like that Suns team, this Rockets team can't get stops when they need them.

[Budkin]

Fuck Simmons and his "I thought Harden was going to be the next Ginobili but he ended up being much, much better" comment, tbh.

How do you know Harden "ended up being much, much better"? Just because he got traded and went from being a 6th man to having the chance of getting all those 1st option gaudy stats? What does Harden do "much, much better" than prime Manu? Attack the basket, shoot the 3, pass the ball, rebound, defend? :lol

This. I think it's because he does the cooking thing.

[rjv]

This. I think it's because he does the cooking thing.:lol not to mention Harden would have been a bitch about coming off the bench.

[100%duncan]

Doesn't take a genius mind to come to a take that this year's lma is nowhere near being a #2 for a championship team

[NameLess Scrub]

That team had two former mvps, all NBA and all Stars in Marbury and marion, a couple roys in amaré and Lebron, coys in brown and pop... You're comparing regular season with playoffs, Arroyo has never eliminated the US from a gold medal, Argentina did it twice, at home in Indianapolis (a team that also had a bunch of all Stars and all NBA players like j. O'Neal, Ben Wallace, Paul Pierce), then at the Olympics where the "real" team was gonna show. Roster wise, that 04 team would be a contender in just about any season, nevermind in the Olympics playing against athletically inferior opponents. It could have been better but it's a huge exaggeration to imply they were terrible rosters either in 04 or 02.

Arroyo couldn't get going in the NBA, but he was always a good international player.
Also, PR's team had some good years from 2002-2004. They just ended up choking later in the tournaments, and then went back down the next cycle.

For me it has always been about exploitable weaknesses. USA's 2004 lacked shooting (like a team of Lebricks). Once they balanced the team again, they started ruining FIBA again.

[Horse]

Our last game against Houston was a perfect microcosm of how their season will end.

[diego]

Arroyo couldn't get going in the NBA, but he was always a good international player.
Also, PR's team had some good years from 2002-2004. They just ended up choking later in the tournaments, and then went back down the next cycle.

For me it has always been about exploitable weaknesses. USA's 2004 lacked shooting (like a team of Lebricks). Once they balanced the team again, they started ruining FIBA again.

Yeah that PR team had enough size to not get obliterated on the boards / in the paint and Arroyo was an NBA caliber player. Just pointing out that winning the first game of the regular season isn't anywhere near the same as an elimination game.

Americans love to dismiss those rosters, but from 2000-2006 most of those players were all NBA, all Stars, all defensive, important players for their teams etc. Like Rj, boozer, Odom, all not good enough for the 04 team, but when rj came to the Spurs fans were busting a nut, boozer and Odom both played big roles on playoff teams that made deep runs, etc. Even Marbury who is so easy to laugh at and dismiss now, once upon a time he was a 2x all NBA, 2x all star. The 06 team too. Any one of those teams, 02, 04, 06, if they were NBA franchises they would be favorites to win in just about any NBA season, they came up short because of poor chemistry / fit and heroic performances in single game elimination from Argentina and Greece who in terms of talent, size, athleticism were thoroughly outclassed. The US always has a size / athletic advantage over other teams but 02-06 it wasn't enough, they weren't smart enough / played hard enough to make it count, add shaky shooting and single elimination and upsets happened.

[NameLess Scrub]

Yeah that PR team had enough size to not get obliterated on the boards / in the paint and Arroyo was an NBA caliber player. Just pointing out that winning the first game of the regular season isn't anywhere near the same as an elimination game.

Americans love to dismiss those rosters, but from 2000-2006 most of those players were all NBA, all Stars, all defensive, important players for their teams etc. Like Rj, boozer, Odom, all not good enough for the 04 team, but when rj came to the Spurs fans were busting a nut, boozer and Odom both played big roles on playoff teams that made deep runs, etc. Even Marbury who is so easy to laugh at and dismiss now, once upon a time he was a 2x all NBA, 2x all star. The 06 team too. Any one of those teams, 02, 04, 06, if they were NBA franchises they would be favorites to win in just about any NBA season, they came up short because of poor chemistry / fit and heroic performances in single game elimination from Argentina and Greece who in terms of talent, size, athleticism were thoroughly outclassed. The US always has a size / athletic advantage over other teams but 02-06 it wasn't enough, they weren't smart enough / played hard enough to make it count, add shaky shooting and single elimination and upsets happened.

Completely agree :toast