Al Qaeda and the Left agree on war strategy!

[Yonivore]

"In a letter to his top deputy in Iraq, al-Qaeda's No. 2 leader said the United States 'ran and left their agents' in Vietnam and the jihadists must have a plan ready to fill the void if the Americans suddenly leave Iraq," the Associated Press reports (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-10-12-qaeda-letter_x.htm) from Washington:


"Things may develop faster than we imagine," Ayman al-Zawahri wrote in a letter to his top deputy in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. "The aftermath of the collapse of American power in Vietnam--and how they ran and left their agents--is noteworthy. . . . We must be ready starting now." . . .

"More than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media," he wrote.
The translation of the letter, in PDF, is here (http://www.dni.gov/letter_in_english.pdf).

Is Iraq another Vietnam? Zarqawi thinks so, as do "antiwar" politicians here in America and many in the media. And in this respect, at least, Iraq does resemble Vietnam: America's enemies and domestic opponents of the war, acting in sync if not in concert, are attempting to defeat the war effort "in the battlefield of the media."

But there the similarity ends. For one thing, the media are nowhere near as monolithic, or as powerful, as they were during the Vietnam era. Arguably the war in Vietnam was lost when Walter Cronkite declared as much after the Tet Offensive. Cronkite's lapse into advocacy was, as Newsweek's Howard Fineman (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6813945/) argued in January, the beginning of the end of "the notion of a neutral, non-partisan mainstream press." Cronkite and his successors squandered the public trust they had earned, with the result that no journalist today comes anywhere close to wearing the mantle of "most trusted man in America."

For another, there is no serious antiwar movement today. Antiwar protests in 2005 consist of the same crackpot rent-a-mobs who long before 9/11 were disrupting meetings of groups like the World Trade Organization and the International Monetary Fund. Cindy Sheehan is a case in point: Sold by the media as a grieving Everymom, she turned out to be an America-hating lunatic. Thus, there is no move among American politicians, outside the Angry Left fringe, to withdraw from Iraq or defund the effort there.

But what about those public opinion polls that show a majority of Americans think liberating Iraq was "a mistake"? The same polls show a majority opposing a precipitous pullout. This seems to be a contradiction, but it really isn't. The idea that Iraq was a "mistake" reflects anxiety about another Vietnam-like defeat; the opposition to withdrawal reflects a determination not to let that happen.

In short, those who hope for another Vietnam appear to have succeeded, for the moment, in persuading most Americans to fear another Vietnam. But that is a far cry from persuading them to accept another Vietnam.

[xrayzebra]

Yep Yoni, our left wing group here really don't like to be reminded that they caused the death of several million people in VN after they caused the pull-out of our troops from over there. Especially since we were winning and had almost won that war. They will argue that point also. But the people who lived thru that period do know the truth and hang our head in shame that we had Americans that did what they did to our Country and Troops. Now we have some on this forum who would do the same, except this time, I for one will remind them what a bunch of losers they are. Not our Country or Troops (troops they claim to support). Like everything else, they want only one thing: humiliate our country. They can take an aeronautical Intercourse at a revolving pastry. For the young libs out there who don't know what that means, figure it out for yourself, I have no time for you.

[JoeChalupa]

WTF!? So Iraq only resembles Vietnam when it suits the right?

Boy Yoni you are really putting the spin on this.

[xrayzebra]

WTF!? So Iraq only resembles Vietnam when it suits the right?

Boy Yoni you are really putting the spin on this.

Hey dummy, read the friggn letter. They refer to VN. Sheeeesh!

[Yonivore]

Hey dummy, read the friggn letter. They refer to VN. Sheeeesh!
What he said.

[JoeChalupa]

And for you young conservatives...figure it out on your own!!!!

[JoeChalupa]

Hey dummy, read the friggn letter. They refer to VN. Sheeeesh!

No shit wise one!! But the left did NOT write that letter.

Did you read the friggin letter! Sheeeeeesh!!!!!

[xrayzebra]

And for you young conservatives...figure it out on your own!!!!

What ever.

[JoeChalupa]

That's what I thought.

[Yonivore]

No shit wise one!! But the left did NOT write that letter.

Did you read the friggin letter! Sheeeeeesh!!!!!
No, but the left is calling the war in Iraq another Vietnam...so, on that point, they agree with al Qaeda.

[xrayzebra]

No, but the left is calling the war in Iraq another Vietnam...so, on that point, they agree with al Qaeda.

He can't figure out one answer from the other. I think he was correcting my english, which really isn't a problem. About correlating the letter with lefties in our coutry, heck, who knows. Maybe he can't figure that out. But they do refer to what our country did in VN with what they are doing over there and say "they must be ready" to step in and fill the void. They just don't like to be reminded that they lost the war and caused the death of many, many people. Of course they still have the Hollywood left to go to for solace.

[JoeChalupa]

No, but the left is calling the war in Iraq another Vietnam...so, on that point, they agree with al Qaeda.

So some on the left agree on the word "Vietnam" for this war and that is your basis for your spin?

Come on Yoni...I know you can do better than that.

[JoeChalupa]

He can't figure out one answer from the other. I think he was correcting my english, which really isn't a problem. About correlating the letter with lefties in our coutry, heck, who knows. Maybe he can't figure that out. But they do refer to what our country did in VN with what they are doing over there and say "they must be ready" to step in and fill the void. They just don't like to be reminded that they lost the war and caused the death of many, many people. Of course they still have the Hollywood left to go to for solace.

And just because Yoni "correlates" this to the left doesn't make it true.

And besides, the letter refers to when the US pulls out...and isn't that that the plan this administration has...to eventually pull out of Iraq?
So I guess the right agrees with Al Queda too.

[gtownspur]

Wrong Tostada. The left have used terms like "quagmire" to draw similarities with Vietnam and at times calling IRaq another Vietnam. The difference between a Republican Pullout and a Liberal Pullout is that the republicans will pull out after iraq can defend itself. THe left on the other hand want to withdraw early thus intentionally losing the war.

[Yonivore]

So some on the left agree on the word "Vietnam" for this war and that is your basis for your spin?

Come on Yoni...I know you can do better than that.
You're missing the point hombre.

al Qaeda is COUNTING on the left to make their "Vietnam" case for them so they can step in when America abandons Iraq -- as the North Vietnamese did when America abandoned the South after people like John Kerry fought the war vicariously, for the Communist, on the battlefield of public opinion.

If you'd read the rest of my post, you'd realize that I stated that's where the similarity ends...

[JoeChalupa]

Wrong O-Town. Even some republicans have called Iraq a mess that needs an exit strategy. Most democrats know the job must be finished but want a more detailed plan than "just winging" it and none want to intentionally lose the war. You are believing what the right-wing media is spewing.

Get it straight damnit!! Open at least one eye and look at things with an open mind.


Walter Jones (R-NC) has called for an exit strategy.
Representative Ron Paul (R-TX) co-sponsored the the Homeward Bound Act with Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) and Neil Abercrombie (D-HI).
Another Republican, Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD) has joined in co-sponsoring the Homeward Bound Resolution.

So you see..it is not only the left.

[Yonivore]

Wrong O-Town. Even some republicans have called Iraq a mess that needs an exit strategy. Most democrats know the job must be finished but want a more detailed plan than "just winging" it and none want to intentionally lose the war. You are believing what the right-wing media is spewing.

Get it straight damnit!! Open at least one eye and look at things with an open mind.


Walter Jones (R-NC) has called for an exit strategy.
Representative Ron Paul (R-TX) co-sponsored the the Homeward Bound Act with Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) and Neil Abercrombie (D-HI).
Another Republican, Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD) has joined in co-sponsoring the Homeward Bound Resolution.

So you see..it is not only the left.
We're not talking about an "exit strategy," We're talking about the Howard Deans, the Cindy Sheehans, the Nbadans, who want us to drop everything and leave...now.

That's the left we're talking about.

Hell, I think we need an exit strategy...but, I also believe we have one. And, Saturday's election is just another step in that direction.

And, I think you're wrong. There are elements of the extreme left that would like nothing better than for this administration to be defeated in Iraq -- even at the expense of the soldiers and our security.

[JoeChalupa]

We're not talking about an "exit strategy," We're talking about the Howard Deans, the Cindy Sheehans, the Nbadans, who want us to drop everything and leave...now.

That's the left we're talking about.

Hell, I think we need an exit strategy...but, I also believe we have one. And, Saturday's election is just another step in that direction.

And, I think you're wrong. There are elements of the extreme left that would like nothing better than for this administration to be defeated in Iraq -- even at the expense of the soldiers and our security.

I won't argue that some on the extreme left feel that way but when you say, "the left",and don't designate then I have to disagree with you.

Most opponents of the war now argue that we must occupy Iraq indefinitely until a democratic government takes hold, no matter what the costs and I agree.

[boutons]

"al Qaeda is COUNTING on the left"

GMAFB.

Whether the Americans "win" or "lose" in Iraq, al Quaida will be there, along with Iran and Syria, etc, to erase all US influence.

The left was hardly alone in turning against the VN war. Lying right-wing revisionism at its best.

Just as the Arabs and Persians in/around Iraq will do, the VN would have out-waited and out-lasted the US. But with 50K US dead, 250K injured and 10's of 1000's of head-fucked VN vets was just too much to lose in a game of dominoes (only the US was playing dominoes in VN).

dubya/Repubs' HUGE mistake was "thinking" that 9/11 would give them carte blanche and 100% of US public's support forever to do any old fucking war. HUGE mistake, 2000 US dead under dubya's command, wasted US/Iraqi blood on dubya's hands.

dubya/Repubs NEVER EVEN SUPPORTED the Iraq war completely themselves, as seen by their refusal to spend enogh $$$ (cheap bastards) to put a Shinsheki-level of troops into Iraq.

[xrayzebra]

"al Qaeda is COUNTING on the left"

GMAFB.

Whether the Americans "win" or "lose" in Iraq, al Quaida will be there, along with Iran and Syria, etc, to erase all US influence.

The left was hardly alone in turning against the VN war. Lying right-wing revisionism at its best.

Just as the Arabs and Persians in/around Iraq will do, the VN would have out-waited and out-lasted the US. But with 50K US dead, 250K injured and 10's of 1000's of head-fucked VN vets was just too much to lose in a game of dominoes (only the US was playing dominoes in VN).

dubya/Repubs' HUGE mistake was "thinking" that 9/11 would give them carte blanche and 100% of US public's support forever to do any old fucking war. HUGE mistake, 2000 US dead under dubya's command, wasted US/Iraqi blood on dubya's hands.

dubya/Repubs NEVER EVEN SUPPORTED the Iraq war completely themselves, as seen by their refusal to spend enogh $$$ (cheap bastards) to put a Shinsheki-level of troops into Iraq.

What in the world are you talking about? You only prove my point each and every post you make. Just think B U S H. Now take you right hand and put it on your right ear, now take you left hand and put it on your left ear pull you head from you rear end.

[ChumpDumper]

So how long are we going to be there?

[Duff McCartney]

No, but the left is calling the war in Iraq another Vietnam...so, on that point, they agree with al Qaeda.

That's a pretty stupid connection you're making. Reaching much.

[Yonivore]

So how long are we going to be there?
Wouldn't Zarqawi like to know.

[gtownspur]

Wrong O-Town. Even some republicans have called Iraq a mess that needs an exit strategy. Most democrats know the job must be finished but want a more detailed plan than "just winging" it and none want to intentionally lose the war. You are believing what the right-wing media is spewing.

Get it straight damnit!! Open at least one eye and look at things with an open mind.


Walter Jones (R-NC) has called for an exit strategy.
Representative Ron Paul (R-TX) co-sponsored the the Homeward Bound Act with Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) and Neil Abercrombie (D-HI).
Another Republican, Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD) has joined in co-sponsoring the Homeward Bound Resolution.

So you see..it is not only the left.

Okay so you have 3 repubs out of 300 in the House and senate. All the other ones are pro war. Joe what you have missed is the blindness of the Network Media and your own ignorance to see that the democrats that do support the war only support it by name and not by action. Voting to go to war and then turning around and not approving the money and means while at the same time trying to capitalize on this president doing horrible is not supporting the war effort. I mean dont call me blind w/o removing the wooden spike from your own eye. Who said the administration does not have an exit strategy. What you hear about them not having one is not that they dont have one but that the admin's exit strategy is not in lockstep w/ theirs. You need to learn to read between the lines.

THis post was about the left. Yoni blankly stated that. The majority of the Left is against this war.

[gtownspur]

That's a pretty stupid connection you're making. Reaching much.
WhAT'S SO stupid about that since thats exactly what alqueda have admitted to relying on.. THe left to propagandize this war.

[Nbadan]

We're not talking about an "exit strategy," We're talking about the Howard Deans, the Cindy Sheehans, the Nbadans, who want us to drop everything and leave...now.

That's the left we're talking about.

Hell, I think we need an exit strategy...but, I also believe we have one. And, Saturday's election is just another step in that direction.

And, I think you're wrong. There are elements of the extreme left that would like nothing better than for this administration to be defeated in Iraq -- even at the expense of the soldiers and our security.

It's always another step in the right direction for Bush apologist, another corner turned, another mountain climbed, but yet the security situation in Iraq always seems to get worse with each of their ideological hurdles cleared. The latest bid to 'wait till the constitution is approved' will be no different.

No one wants the U.S. to lose in Iraq, but only Progressives want to bring our boys home as soon as possible. Like the election of Talibani, the constitution may be approved simply because it will lead to a much quicker withdrawal of foreign troops from Iraq than not approving it, but there continues to be widespread opposition to the document even among Shiite.

The Bush administration has shown that it is unwilling to make the difficult political choices to win In Iraq. We saw in Vietnam what happens when politicians in Washington tie the hands of military leaders on the field, denying them the troop levels and heavy armour they desperately need to curb the insurgency in Iraq and secure the borders is no different.

[Nbadan]

Wrong Tostada. The left have used terms like "quagmire" to draw similarities with Vietnam and at times calling IRaq another Vietnam. The difference between a Republican Pullout and a Liberal Pullout is that the republicans will pull out after iraq can defend itself. THe left on the other hand want to withdraw early thus intentionally losing the war.

I thought we won the war when we deposed Saddam. Isn't that what invading Iraq was about? When did the U.S. get into the business of nation-building?

What's gonna happen in Iraq is gonna happen whether the U.S. has 150K troops there or not. Already we don't control much outside of Baghdad, and even portions of the Iraqi capital have come under the control of roving insurgents at times. A recent headcount of fighter captured in Fallujah showed that less than 5% were foreign fighters. Most of those captured were native Iraqis fighting for the freedom of their country against a foreign invader.

Progressives want the administration to stop the bleeding of daily losses of American troops because each death represents the loss of a mother, father, daughter or son. There are only two real alternatives in Iraq and neither of them are very pretty, either the administration increases the level of troops securing Iraq and it's borders, and thus the security situation, or we bring our boys home - now!

[boutons]

"The left to propagandize this war"

The war was "propagandized", connotation of lying, by dubya, dickhead, wolfy, rummy, condi, powell with all the completely false "justifications", not a single one of which has played out.

The Repubs are fucked if they stay, they're fucked if they leave. But I think they should stay to get fucked some more, at least until this weekend's Constitutional election. If the Const gets voted down, GAMEOVER. wolfie's Impossible Dream (which was at best only 3rd lie behind WMD and Saddam = threat) of democracy flowering in the ME in a US-destroyed basket case of Iraq will be shown to be nothing but the nightmare is alwasy was, has been proven to be.

[ChumpDumper]

Wouldn't Zarqawi like to know.It's going to happen anyway, right? It's not like they won't announce it qonce they actually decide.