Officially on the lol Today's NBA crew

[midnightpulp]

Today's game really is trash. And it's all due to the obsession with the 3 point shot, which forces teams to adopt a very binary and simplistic strategy of shooting a 3 or driving to the rim, all generated from some pick-and-roll variation.

Casuals like it because it's "fast paced," since all those missed 3s are sure to produce more fast break situations and yet another Steph Curry Vine loop, but in reality, it's monotonous and ugly to watch. Post play is all but dead and the dribble-drive game is less interesting because attackers have an ocean of space to work with.

No, I'm not nostalgic for the 80's or 90's. I think 2011-2014 was the best basketball the NBA as a whole played. You had the 2011 Mavs with Carlisle's great passing offense (the 2011 Mavs averaged 21.6 3PA), Spoelstra's pace-and-space (averaged only 15.6 3PA in 2012), and the Spurs' Beautiful Game offense (21.4 3PA). We'll even go back to 09 and 10. Those Lakers could pass the ball when Kobe wasn't chucking.

Today, the top teams average over 30 3PA, with Moreyball leading the way at fucking 40.

I don't blame NBA teams. The 3 point shot is too efficient. Hopefully there's a paradigm shift, but I doubt it. Shooters are just going to get better and better.

[Clipper Nation]

You do realize most of the yesterday's NBA krew are soccer fans trying to distract from how pussified their "sport" actually is, right?

[midnightpulp]

You do realize most of the yesterday's NBA krew are soccer fans trying to distract from how pussified their "sport" actually is, right?

:lol

They're "nostalgic" for the wrong era, though. 90's isoball was equally as painful as Hardenball.

[lefty]

:lol

They're "nostalgic" for the wrong era, though. 90's isoball was equally as painful as Hardenball.

What are your favorite eras tbh?

[lefty]

And welcome by the way

:bobo

[midnightpulp]

What are your favorite eras tbh?

Early 90's (90's basketball didn't yet devolve into "isoball") and 2008-2014. I also don't mind the 1999-2007 "grit and grind" era, because the Spurs and Lakers, who were obviously the NBA trendsetters during that time, could adapt to any style. Could play up-tempo, grind games out, etc.

[Down Under]

Not as big a fan of the Warriors style as you said (shoot a 3 with a crack of daylight as first option) but the ball movement and cutting is better in the league as a whole than at any time in the game's history and I think that makes it the best era to watch.

[midnightpulp]

Not as big a fan of the Warriors style as you said (shoot a 3 with a crack of daylight as first option) but the ball movement and cutting is better in the league as a whole than at any time in the game's history and I think that makes it the best era to watch.

To be fair, I should say "Today's NBA top teams are trash" (aside from the Spurs. Not homering. We only take 21 3PA with an offense centered around the post).

Movement and cutting being better is something of an illusion. The reason, as I said, is because so much attention is paid to defending the 3, players have acres of space to work with. Basketball used to be about a war of attrition inside the paint, with shooters simply acting as last resorts for bigs who were double teamed or for penetrators met by shotblockers.

The 3 point shot is also broken from a math perspective. It makes no sense to award 50% more points to a shot that is not 50% more difficult. Why it analytically makes sense to chuck more 3s.

[UZER]

Eliminate the corner 3. Don't run the parallel lines down each sideline. Make it 23'9" from sideline to sideline. That way, you only have to defend three the point line out towards the top.

[midnightpulp]

Eliminate the corner 3. Don't run the parallel lines down each sideline. Make it 23'9" from sideline to sideline. That way, you only have to defend three the point line out towards the top.

Yeah. The corner three is also ludicrous. Shorter distance but worth the same.

[lefty]

Early 90's (90's basketball didn't yet devolve into "isoball") and 2008-2014. I also don't mind the 1999-2007 "grit and grind" era, because the Spurs and Lakers, who were obviously the NBA trendsetters during that time, could adapt to any style. Could play up-tempo, grind games out, etc.

:cry u don't like the 80s

[midnightpulp]

:cry u don't like the 80s

Sure. But not my favorite era. Team defense was a bit too lax. I think early 90's struck a nice balance between the uptempo 80's and the grittier early 90's, which the Bad Boys ushered in.

[Down Under]

To be fair, I should say "Today's NBA top teams are trash" (aside from the Spurs. Not homering. We only take 21 3PA with an offense centered around the post).

Movement and cutting being better is something of an illusion. The reason, as I said, is because so much attention is paid to defending the 3, players have acres of space to work with. Basketball used to be about a war of attrition inside the paint, with shooters simply acting as last resorts for bigs who were double teamed or for penetrators met by shotblockers.

The 3 point shot is also broken from a math perspective. It makes no sense to award 50% more points to a shot that is not 50% more difficult. Why it analytically makes sense to chuck more 3s.
Depends whether they are 'chucking' 3's off the dribble or it is a result of of having more emphasis on the shot as you said. I enjoy watching good ball and player movement that is facilitated by so many good 3 point shooters in the league today (Probably a result of so many more international players). It is easier for the players today because of spacing but again, so many role players are much more skilled passers than in the past (again being a result of more international role players). I do miss post play though, watching Olajuwon and prime Duncan school guys in the post 1 on 1.

[Down Under]

Yeah. The corner three is also ludicrous. Shorter distance but worth the same.

Or you could shorten the 3 point line and make it easier to recover to shooters

[DMC]

Today's game is just fine. It's not the game that's the problem, since folks are basically META gaming like everything else. It's the fact that the older generation has created a false mold of what real NBA ball should be, because that's what they remember when they were young and getting excited about the game.

I think today's NBA is at least as exciting as yesterday's game. It just isn't exciting to me, because I don't hold any reverence for Curry, Durant, Harden or Westbrook and only some for Lebron and probably interested most in the development of Kawhi over the years. That's on me, nothing to do with those guys other than the stat padding and lack of defense makes the game feel too much like something Vince McMahon would be running. Westbrook is the Texas Tech QB of the NBA, 400 passing yards a game but nothing to show for it (that could date me a bit, not watched them in years).

Because fans flock to stats now, thinking that makes them analysts, guys like Russ have found a marketable businesses model without competing for a championship. They just play to the player fans. Today's player fans are worse than yesterday's, because they don't require rings.

[UZER]

In the old days (not that long ago), you take the wide open layup over a 3pt shot 10/10 times. The offenses were constructed to work for / create the best open closest shot.

Today, even if you have a layup, but someone is open for 3, you pass up the layup and kick it out to them for the 3.

Completely different game.

[snickles]

Today, even if you have a layup, but someone is open for 3, you pass up the layup and kick it out to them for the 3.



this.

a few days ago i was channel surfing and came across (i think it was) the rockets/ OKC game. houston had a 4 on 1. all 3 trailers ran to the 3 point line. they came away with nothing. i went back to channel surfing.

seriously, how is that considered good basketball?

[Killakobe81]

this.

a few days ago i was channel surfing and came across (i think it was) the rockets/ OKC game. houston had a 4 on 1. all 3 trailers ran to the 3 point line. they came away with nothing. i went back to channel surfing.

seriously, how is that considered good basketball?

I agree with you I get that 3s are worth more than 2s but how is a 3 pointer even an open one ...better than a wide open layup?
People blame Steph or even Mike D but i blame 2K ...and i like 2k...
But i play it sim style not 3 and dunk style ...

[TD 21]

Today's game really is trash. And it's all due to the obsession with the 3 point shot, which forces teams to adopt a very binary and simplistic strategy of shooting a 3 or driving to the rim, all generated from some pick-and-roll variation.

Casuals like it because it's "fast paced," since all those missed 3s are sure to produce more fast break situations and yet another Steph Curry Vine loop, but in reality, it's monotonous and ugly to watch. Post play is all but dead and the dribble-drive game is less interesting because attackers have an ocean of space to work with.

No, I'm not nostalgic for the 80's or 90's. I think 2011-2014 was the best basketball the NBA as a whole played. You had the 2011 Mavs with Carlisle's great passing offense (the 2011 Mavs averaged 21.6 3PA), Spoelstra's pace-and-space (averaged only 15.6 3PA in 2012), and the Spurs' Beautiful Game offense (21.4 3PA). We'll even go back to 09 and 10. Those Lakers could pass the ball when Kobe wasn't chucking.

Today, the top teams average over 30 3PA, with Moreyball leading the way at fucking 40.

I don't blame NBA teams. The 3 point shot is too efficient. Hopefully there's a paradigm shift, but I doubt it. Shooters are just going to get better and better.

:tu

It's not even Spurs fan bias, the pendulum has just swung too far to one extreme, to the point that the game has become homogenized.

The great thing about that era is, you still had remnants of previous eras mixed with what the game has become now.

[SpursforSix]

Or you could shorten the 3 point line and make it easier to recover to shooters

:lol

[Down Under]

:lol

:lmao

[SpursforSix]

:lmao

Man...I was seriously thinking "wtf" and about to debate you on that.

[lefty]

this.

a few days ago i was channel surfing and came across (i think it was) the rockets/ OKC game. houston had a 4 on 1. all 3 trailers ran to the 3 point line. they came away with nothing. i went back to channel surfing.

seriously, how is that considered good basketball?

[Down Under]

Man...I was seriously thinking "wtf" and about to debate you on that.

Nar no one took the bait :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

in the 90s if u pulled a NVE dribbling down the court with plenty of time still left on the clock, yet you pull up for a 3 with a man in ur face u be chewed out by the coach for a poor % shot

in todays league? that's not the case

[Arcadian]

I agree with you I get that 3s are worth more than 2s but how is a 3 pointer even an open one ...better than a wide open layup?
People blame Steph or even Mike D but i blame 2K ...and i like 2k...
But i play it sim style not 3 and dunk style ...

Me too, but the problem is that "sim style" actually IS "3 and dunk style" now that many NBA teams really play this way... But fuck it, I'm bringing 2005 back with my play style :lol

[ambchang]

in the 90s if u pulled a NVE dribbling down the court with plenty of time still left on the clock, yet you pull up for a 3 with a man in ur face u be chewed out by the coach for a poor % shot

in todays league? that's not the case

Unless you were Drazen Petrovic.

Drazen would average 70 points in :lol today's NBA.