Moving Mohammed

[Marcus Bryant]

With Oberto's price at $2.5 mil per season, Radoslav on the books for $30 mil over the next four seasons and Scola in the wings it is apparent that this will be Mohammed's last season (or half-season, for that matter) with the Spurs. With an expiring contract and at a relatively low salary in the final year of his contract Mohammed should be an attractive player on the trade block. So what can they hope to get for him?

A few potential suitors...


Atlanta Hawks

They are in dire need of quality bigs. Collier or Pachulia as a starting center? Yikes.


Memphis Grizzlies

Things have apparently soured with Lorenzen Wright, whose contract also ends after the 2005-06 season. After him they have Jake Tsakalidis.


Golden State Warriors

They always seem to be looking to deal.


Portland Trailblazers

They've endured declining production out of Ratliff and after him there's Pryzbilia.


New York Knicks

Zeke is at the helm.


Boston Celtics

Ainge might be amenable to an upgrade over LaFrentz.

[ChumpDumper]

Memphis seems like the only likely candidate out of that bunch.

[baseline bum]

No Mohammed, no title last year. No way I move this guy to let a rookie replace him.

[T Park]

^^^^ Stop with the common sense bum.

You'll get the "But the Spurs are cheap" bullshit soon though.

[Trainwreck2100]

^^^^ Stop with the common sense bum.

You'll get the "But the Spurs are cheap" bullshit soon though.


It's not that much of bullshit, unless they can move Rasho I doubt they will pay for another big.

[ZStomp]

For some reason, I don't see Scola coming over to SA at all.

[Brutalis]

I'd move Rasho before I moved Nazr.

[Kori Ellis]

I'd move Rasho before I moved Nazr.

Obviously the Spurs would too. They tried to move Rasho for Tariq Abdul-Wahid this summer. If that's not desperation to move someone, I don't know what is.

My guess is that Rasho will play decent this season and they'll find a way to package him with another player and move him.

[GoSpurs21]

the combination of Narz Rasho gets us into the Finals this year...so FO everyone that is overracting to preseason BS

its preseason everyone get a fucking grip

the Spurs and Miami gave everyone a great show on monday night but preseason is exactly what it says...a good chance to see what fridge players can do

[Kori Ellis]

No one is saying that they should trade one of them based on preseason performances.

They are basing it on the fact they can't afford to pay both Rasho and Nazr and one of them won't get much playing time with Oberto here.

[E20]

I don't think Oberto has proven anything yet. It's only been one game -- a preseason game. And why is everybody jumping to the conclusion that Oberto will get heavy mintues? Is Scola a lock for next summer? What about his inflated buy-out?

[GoSpurs21]

No one is saying that they should trade one of them based on preseason performances.

They are basing it on the fact they can't afford to pay both Rasho and Nazr and one of them won't get much playing time with Oberto here.Nazr, Rasho and Oberto will be here this year, next year whom ever matches up with defending WCF or Finals will stay all others will fall by trades or FA. Its only NBA not rocket science. After all the Spurs only reload for finals not for the Lakers like in years past.

[Kori Ellis]

Is Scola a lock for next summer? What about his inflated buy-out?

Far from a lock. I doubt he'll ever be a Spur.

[GoSpurs21]

Far from a lock. I doubt he'll ever be a Spur.I gotta agree Scola may have missed his window. Spurs now reload for championship, that means finals not western conference foe

[Marcus Bryant]

Nazr, Rasho and Oberto will be here this year, next year whom ever matches up with defending WCF or Finals will stay all others will fall by trades or FA. Its only NBA not rocket science. After all the Spurs only reload for finals not for the Lakers like in years past.


Again, the Spurs already have three guys under contract long-term at the 5: Radoslav, TD and Oberto. They are not going to add a long-term commitment to Mohammed on top of that.

Spurs fans seem to forget that TD sees about 15 to 18 minutes a night at the 5.

You're right, this isn't "rocket science", though apparently you would like to make it so.

[batman2883]

They are trying to move Rasho so that we could pick up Nazr....thats why moving Rasho is more important...Nazr is a much better center than Rasho is, and Oberto is too. I dont see the Spurs actually keeping an overpriced benchwarmer over more productive center's.

[Marcus Bryant]

They couldn't get the rotting corpse of Tariq Abdul-Wahad's career for Radoslav. Granted, some of the difficulty in trying to move him this summer was the speculation that he would be an amnesty victim. The only way that Radoslav is going to be moved is if he gets the PT and shows a marked improvement in his play in the paint.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Kip Fanatic]

Rasho will be a good fit for a team that is need of a center due to an injury or due to free agency. Someone like Seattle who is losing are their free agents next season. Look for someone like Brent Barry or Beno to be packaged.

[DesiSpur_21]

We need a vbookie -

Who goes first - Rasho or Nazr?

[Jimcs50]

This is ludicrous. The Spurs are not going to get rid of Nazr this year.....

[Marcus Bryant]

Nazr's unfettered trade value ends at the trade deadline. Sure, the Spurs could end up with some value back in a sign and trade next summer, but that's not a sure thing.

They're stuck with Radoslav and Oberto is certainly capable of starting long-term in SA. The clock will be running down to get something for Mohammed by the trade deadline. Otherwise the Spurs could end up letting him walk next summer. No matter how much Spurs fans want to spin it, losing talent for nothing is not a good idea.

[ChumpDumper]

No matter how much Spurs fans want to spin it, losing talent for nothing is not a good idea.What makes you think they wouldn't?

Wishful thinking?

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs fans or the front office?

[ChumpDumper]

Since they are the only ones who can actually trade him, the FO.

[picnroll]

Just as Manu, while in Europe, figured into the personell decisions of the Spurs, Mahinimi, unless he's proving to be much less than expected, is figuring into the relatively near term decisions of the Spurs regarding big men. I'd be surprised, with or without Spurs trading Rasho, that they'd be willing to shell out for a relatively long term and relatively expensive contract for Nazr.

Nazr's simply not that exceptional or irreplaceable. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in a S&T next summer or just go without compensation.

[angel_luv]

My guess is that Rasho will play decent this season and they'll find a way to package him with another player and move him.


It would really suck to get traded no matter how you do.

[Marcus Bryant]

Since they are the only ones who can actually trade him, the FO.

Well, the quote was referring to "Spurs fans".

Anyways, yeah, I can definitely see them letting Mohammed walk. Does that make it a wise decision? I don't think so.

[coopdogg3]

I say keep Nazr, win the NBA Championship, and then try a S&T in the summer. If we end up losing him for nothing, then I will let the warm glow of the Spurs NBA Championship 2005-2006 DVD dry my tears. :)

coopdogg3

[ducks]

spurs will trade rasho or barry atleast if they keep nazr
bank on it

[wildbill2u]

With Oberto's price at $2.5 mil per season, Radoslav on the books for $30 mil over the next four seasons and Scola in the wings it is apparent that this will be Mohammed's last season (or half-season, for that matter) with the Spurs. With an expiring contract and at a relatively low salary in the final year of his contract Mohammed should be an attractive player on the trade block. So what can they hope to get for him?

A few potential suitors...


Atlanta Hawks

They are in dire need of quality bigs. Collier or Pachulia as a starting center? Yikes.

Let's stop right here. Atlanta has a passel of SFs and I've heard we've been talking to them right along, offering Rasho for trade, but without any interest. I wonder if they might go for NASR?

You normally don't trade a good center for a good SF even up, but it might be a good way to get something for NASR. He's gonna be too high-priced for us since the market on even average centers has escalated.

[coopdogg3]

I don't know why Atlanta would trade for Nazr this year. The Spurs won't trade a center until the Spurs are sure Oberto can make the transition. Why would you give up a young, talented SF for a half-season with a decent C? They wouldn't have any real leverage in re-signing him next season. The only way I can see a team trading for Nazr this year is if they are in a title run and got hit by injuries (Phoenix??). Otherwise the only real possibility I see is with a S&T next off-season because the Spurs will have some leverage by holding his Early Bird Rights (ala SAR this off-season - hopefully the Spurs won't botch it like the Trailblazers did). Guess we'll see though.

coopdogg3

[picnroll]

Would anyone trade Nazr for Diaw, particulaly if it looked like Rasho was unmoveable?

[ducks]

I would not trade with the suns unless it was for amare

[picnroll]

Well I'm not sure Nazr would get you Amare. (laughing thingy)

[ducks]

suns have no one that I want except amare
jj is gone now
marion is ok a little expensive though

[coopdogg3]

What about for draft picks? Do the Suns have a 1st rounder next year?

coopdogg3

[picnroll]

Biggest problem I see with trading Nazr to the Sns would be, if Amare comes back effectively this year, it would give the Suns the adequate quality center to make them a handful to the Spurs. Diaw is a nice piece though, he looked very impressive in the Fiba Europe games.

[DesiSpur_21]

IMO, Nazr will gone by the trade deadline or worst case end of season. Rasho is still the better of 2 when it comes to defending Shaq - Against other centers it really doesn't matter.

I'd say letting Nazr walk away is a better option than "taking another long term contract". Just for the heck of gaining spurs should not do S&T. I say this because unless we get a small forward (by moving Nazr+Brent), there is no point doing a trade - And for Nazr+Brent contract you don't get a decent center.

[ChumpDumper]

Otherwise the only real possibility I see is with a S&T next off-season because the Spurs will have some leverage by holding his Early Bird RightsWe'll actually have full Bird rights as Nazr will be finishing up a five year deal.
(ala SAR this off-season - hopefully the Spurs won't botch it like the Trailblazers did).Well, they really didn't want to take back any salary either, so....

[easjer]

I think they'll test all three before deciding which to trade, but if they can't get rid of Nazr or Rasho in a trade by the deadline, they'll let Nazr go. There is no money, Oberto is cheaper, assuming he makes the transition. Nazr still has downsides, which may be cured by a full training camp and season with the system (but it seems butterfingers and pumpfakes may be a perennial problem for him). Rasho was doing well last season, with improvements in offense before his injury moved Nazr into the starter position, and I think he's the better defensive player.

Shrug. I'd rather let Nazr go than Rasho. Especially if Fabri works out.

[coopdogg3]

How does doing a S&T for draft picks work? I honestly don't know. Couldn't the Blazers have traded SAR for picks or maybe a trade exemption? I thought I remember reading how the Blazers were trying to get too much for a trade with the Nets and ended up just getting nothing (due to the physical) when SAR signed with the Kings. Granted the failed physical wasn't the Blazers fault.

I say the same type of trade for Nazr next off-season if we can. Trade exemption won't help (unless we off-load Barry and Rash and get below the salary cap again) but picks are always nice. Again the CBA is not my strong suit so I would appreciate any info.

coopdogg3

[ChumpDumper]

How does doing a S&T for draft picks work? I honestly don't know. Couldn't the Blazers have traded SAR for picks or maybe a trade exemption?Right, that's what they were trying with NJ -- picks and a trade exception. Cap space could also be used if a team is under it.
I say the same type of trade for Nazr next off-season if we can.Yeah, it's not the easiest thing to do; if a team is able to do that, they're usually also able to sign that player outright as well. I'm still not sure how much Nazr would get on the open market right now.

[coopdogg3]

Shrug. I'd rather let Nazr go than Rasho. Especially if Fabri works out.[/QUOTE]

I haven't seen Oberto play yet, but I envisioned him as having a similar game to Rasho. In which case I would favor trading Rash allowing the Spurs to have 2 different types of centers able to do 2 different things on the court. Could provide some match-up advatages. But again, this is coming from someone who hasn't seen Oberto play a lick of NBA ball.

coopdogg3

[Horry For 3!]

Portland Trailblazers

They've endured declining production out of Ratliff and after him there's Pryzbilia.
Przybilla is good, he tore it up when he started last year.

[thispego]

typical marcus bryant thread

[Marcus Bryant]

Absolutely.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's going to bring out the haters in full force when Rasho and Scola's rights are packaged next summer for a wing.

Nazr ain't going anywhere this season. Nor is Rasho.

If you trade Rasho, you give Nazr and his agent bargaining power next summer. If you try and trade him teams won't be willing to deal knowing that the Spurs are "desperate" to get rid of a player.

What will happen is they will keep both through the playoffs, and deal with it next summer.

Then they have bargaining power over Nazr (we already have Rasho, why should we pay you so much). And then if they can't reach an agreement, they can turn around and accomodate him with a sign and trade to some team hard up for a center and get draft picks/the proverbial long three out of the deal.

[Marcus Bryant]

Bargaining power next summer is going to be tied to who is interested in him then.

In addition, even with Radoslav gone, the Spurs will still have Oberto.

[ploto]

I haven't seen Oberto play yet, but I envisioned him as having a similar game to Rasho. In which case I would favor trading Rash allowing the Spurs to have 2 different types of centers able to do 2 different things on the court. Could provide some match-up advatages. But again, this is coming from someone who hasn't seen Oberto play a lick of NBA ball.

coopdogg3

If anything, I think Oberto more replicates what Nazr can bring than what Rasho can bring to the team because defensively, neither Nazr nor Oberto can do what Rasho does. If you want two types of defensive centers one needs to be Rasho- for Shaq, Yao, Ilgauskas, etc...

[Arragontigo]

Rasho will be gone, simple as that, Rasho just doesnt seem like a good fit with the Spurs due to his over paid contract....especially since he will be riding the bench. I hope they do play him more then trade him this summer or before this summer to lift that money off the salary cap.

[ducks]

is rasho really overpaid considering the big contracts now though?

[strangeweather]

is rasho really overpaid considering the big contracts now though?

As a solid NBA starting center, not at all. But he played himself out of that spot last year. As a guy who notched DNPs throughout the playoffs, his contract is pretty steep.

[Bo Malette]

Wow what a horrible thread.


typical marcus bryant thread

[Marcus Bryant]

Yet another who foolishly believes the Spurs will retain Mohammed. Sorry for having burst your bubble.

[ducks]

why is the thread horrible

what do you want to talk about

how spurs are going to keep everyone

it is fun to discuss what you think the spurs will do

[Spurs košarka kultura]

Oberto is certainly capable of starting long-term in SA.

Yeah too bad he's 30.

[E20]

Marcus Byrant has to get over the fact:
That since Oberto is from Argentina he is going to be like Manu -- who knows? We will wait and see how good Oberto is before claiming he is starting material.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm the last guy to accuse of assuming a player is going to be great because he is from Argentina. Oberto is capable of starting in the NBA and when you look at his contract, you know that is much more attractive to the Spurs than paying someone $7.5 mil+ to do the same thing. The Spurs already have their big 3. After that they are going to be looking to keep the payroll cost down.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If the Spurs go into the playoffs this year with Oberto and Rasho at the center position, then we will not make it, pure and simple.

I am saying that based on 1 game of Oberto, with no 'garuntee'. Naturally if we're lucky and Oberto gets the job done, then it makes sense to trade our most tradeable asset to get something back before he leaves for nothing.

But at this point, everything is speculation.


Oberto is capable of starting in the NBA
The season hasn't even started fah crayin aut laud!
Oh, boy Corso!

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Im with you this time Marcus Bryant, I posted before the end of last season that Nazr will be traded this year at the trade deadline especially if Oberto works out which I think he is. Pop threw him at Shaq to see how he would match up cause Pop is intrigued by Oberto. Pop believes he can play in this league.

Spurs will try to push up Nazr's value and trade him like they traded Malik Rose. Please dont tell me that some of you guys believe that the Spurs are going to start overspending from this season on. They will trade Nazr off cause they believe he aint going to be worth what he could get on the open market.

Anyone who says that Nazr is a better fit than Rasho in the Spurs system is dreaming. What are we now? A high octane offense like last year's Suns? NO WAY! Spurs are always defence first. Nazr is a liability on defense. Rasho is much better defensively. and Nazr gives up too many fouls.

And I agree with Ducks. Rasho is not overpaid comparing what idiots like Foyle and Evans have got.

[SenorSpur]

Im with you this time Marcus Bryant, I posted before the end of last season that Nazr will be traded this year at the trade deadline especially if Oberto works out which I think he is. Pop threw him at Shaq to see how he would match up cause Pop is intrigued by Oberto. Pop believes he can play in this league.

Spurs will try to push up Nazr's value and trade him like they traded Malik Rose. Please dont tell me that some of you guys believe that the Spurs are going to start overspending from this season on. They will trade Nazr off cause they believe he aint going to be worth what he could get on the open market.

Anyone who says that Nazr is a better fit than Rasho in the Spurs system is dreaming. What are we now? A high octane offense like last year's Suns? NO WAY! Spurs are always defence first. Nazr is a liability on defense. Rasho is much better defensively. and Nazr gives up too many fouls.

And I agree with Ducks. Rasho is not overpaid comparing what idiots like Foyle and Evans have got.

While I agree that the Spurs probably will shop Nazr, don't give them that shit about Rasho being better than him. If Rasho is the "bomb", why the hell did the Spurs go after another center in the first place. C'mon. Everyone knows how "soft" Rasho is. Say what you want about Nazr - from his bad hands to his foul trouble - but he was the starting center during the last half of the season. He DOES defend the rim and he attacks the offensive glass in a way that no one on that roster does. Besides, Rasho is just as foul prone - check your numbers.

Granted, his numbers were only slightly better than Rasho's (during his best season) but do you really think we could've beaten Detroit without Nazr's contributions? Hell no. I know Tim plays the 5 spot during late stages of games, but if the Spurs had to rely solely on Rasho as their primary BIG, they never would have gotten as far as they did. With the way the Eastern teams have loaded up on size, I wouldn't be so quick as to run this guy out of town.

Anyway, I'd rather they keep the guy through this season and do a sign and trade in the offseason. Besides, we need to see how well Oberto works out first. Who knows? The Spurs may find it easier to unload Rasho's contract on some team prior to dealing with Nazr's situation. After all, it's his contract that has the organization frowning at the moment.

[Nikos]

I'm the last guy to accuse of assuming a player is going to be great because he is from Argentina. Oberto is capable of starting in the NBA and when you look at his contract, you know that is much more attractive to the Spurs than paying someone $7.5 mil+ to do the same thing. The Spurs already have their big 3. After that they are going to be looking to keep the payroll cost down.

What makes you think Oberto is good enough to start?

[Brutalis]

Obviously the Spurs would too. They tried to move Rasho for Tariq Abdul-Wahid this summer. If that's not desperation to move someone, I don't know what is.

My guess is that Rasho will play decent this season and they'll find a way to package him with another player and move him.

Now, what did everyone not know already? lol.



I think they'll test all three before deciding which to trade, but if they can't get rid of Nazr or Rasho in a trade by the deadline, they'll let Nazr go. There is no money, Oberto is cheaper, assuming he makes the transition. Nazr still has downsides, which may be cured by a full training camp and season with the system (but it seems butterfingers and pumpfakes may be a perennial problem for him). Rasho was doing well last season, with improvements in offense before his injury moved Nazr into the starter position, and I think he's the better defensive player.

You're right, there isn't any money. Mainly because we have been building some winning teams lately. I honestly think Pop and the shotcallers are trying to round-out this franchise by staying under the cap and dominating the the same, (we hope).

Oberto right now to me is like... a box of matches sitting next to a child. Either he sucks it up and we are known for the team with two white lumps or he owns it and Argentina officially takes over Brazil.

Nazr is a baller. I've watched him since his days at Kentucky vrs Arkansas at Bud Walton Arena. He has always been the way he is now, with each year getting better.... very very slowly. I think he's still on the SEC or college level in his head refectling his decisions on the court. They're sometimes raw, then just rough. I just think is has less downside to him than Rasho, and a huge a contract. Rasho to me is just exactly what we tried to rid ourselves of. "Soft".

[E20]

OH MY GOD NIKOS, THAT AVATAR IS COOLER THAN YOUR LAST ONE!!!!!!!

STALLONE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fro :fro

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

While I agree that the Spurs probably will shop Nazr, don't give them that shit about Rasho being better than him. If Rasho is the "bomb", why the hell did the Spurs go after another center in the first place. C'mon. Everyone knows how "soft" Rasho is. Say what you want about Nazr - from his bad hands to his foul trouble - but he was the starting center during the last half of the season. He DOES defend the rim and he attacks the offensive glass in a way that no one on that roster does. Besides, Rasho is just as foul prone - check your numbers.

Granted, his numbers were only slightly better than Rasho's (during his best season) but do you really think we could've beaten Detroit without Nazr's contributions? Hell no. I know Tim plays the 5 spot during late stages of games, but if the Spurs had to rely solely on Rasho as their primary BIG, they never would have gotten as far as they did. With the way the Eastern teams have loaded up on size, I wouldn't be so quick as to run this guy out of town.

Anyway, I'd rather they keep the guy through this season and do a sign and trade in the offseason. Besides, we need to see how well Oberto works out first. Who knows? The Spurs may find it easier to unload Rasho's contract on some team prior to dealing with Nazr's situation. After all, it's his contract that has the organization frowning at the moment.

I dont think they really went after another center in that trade. They wanted to get rid of Rose's contract and getting Nazr was the best deal they had available. Now that Nazr's value is sky high. Its time to trade him for a couple of projects.

The Spurs system doesnt need a scoring center. We need someone who can play defense and take the heat off Duncan. Duncan cannot risk guarding the big and get into foul trouble. Thats what Rasho and Nazr and Oberto are here for. Pick up the fouls so that Duncan can continue to stay in the game and let the offense run through him and get the opposing big into foul trouble.

[Man In Black]

I dont think they really went after another center in that trade. They wanted to get rid of Rose's contract and getting Nazr was the best deal they had available. Now that Nazr's value is sky high. Its time to trade him for a couple of projects.

The Spurs system doesnt need a scoring center. We need someone who can play defense and take the heat off Duncan. Duncan cannot risk guarding the big and get into foul trouble. Thats what Rasho and Nazr and Oberto are here for. Pick up the fouls so that Duncan can continue to stay in the game and let the offense run through him and get the opposing big into foul trouble.

BINGO!!!

There are so many parrots on Spurs Boards. Talking about contracts like they really understand them. I know MB knows how the cap works. He's done the math. The way it is, if Crappy scrubs like Jerome James & Adonal Foyle get paid for their meager contributions, what do you think that does for the market setting for Centers?

Yeah, Rasho's contract actually might be more fiscally responsible if Nazr opts to play hard ball and go for the big payout.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

While I agree that the Spurs probably will shop Nazr, don't give them that shit about Rasho being better than him. If Rasho is the "bomb", why the hell did the Spurs go after another center in the first place. C'mon.

Irrefutably Owned.

[Man In Black]

Irrefutably Owned.

It can't be that easy that the Spurs wanted to protect their number 1 option after a long time of playing with Team USA commitments and such. Having 2 solid backups made Pop's substitution patterns more effective than if he was just going to use Rasho & Mailk. But it can't be that easy...can it?

[Marcus Bryant]

I think it's more a case of the Spurs wanting to drop Rose's contract and finding a taker. Maybe they will surprise us all and re-up Mohammed at a market rate, but I'm not counting on it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

We need someone who can play defense and take the heat off Duncan.


Dude, honestly.

How many times have you seen the opposing team's point guard and shooting guard LAY IT UP OR DUNK right in Rasho's no-hops having face?
Compare that number, per game, to Nazr's.

All I know is, once Nazr started, I stopped saying the all-to-familar phrase:

":cuss ON OUR CENTER!!!?!!???!!! :bang :bang :cuss "


He may play good Team/Preventive defense, but once that guard is in the lane he's as worthless as a dying, suffocing, fish.

(that's just defense, his no-hops havin ass doesn't even konw how to pick up garbage duncan points)

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Plus, although it is granted and evident that this statistic is based on very small sample size, noone can deny that history shows the Spurs lose like little bitches with Rasho being the starting Center, and wreck shop like they roll on dubs with Nazr starting Center, in the playoffs.

[ChumpDumper]

We're lucky we didn't meet Shaq in the playoffs.

[zeleni]

Plus, although it is granted and evident that this statistic is based on very small sample size, noone can deny that history shows the Spurs lose like little bitches with Rasho being the starting Center, and wreck shop like they roll on dubs with Nazr starting Center, in the playoffs.

I would like just one of you blabbering idiot to say: Rasho is to blame on .4 loss. Then I would die happy and smart.

[Man In Black]

and wreck shop like they roll on dubs with Nazr starting Center, in the playoffs.

Wreck shop like they roll don dubs? Please. Statistically Nazr didn't do that much more that what Rasho did the year before except this past year, Ginobili rose his game to whole nother level. In effect, the Spurs benefitted more from that than any contribution that either Rasho or Nazr provided.

It really doesn't matter who starts or whatever because if Oberto plays like he is capable of playing, he'll be able to match either of those guys' stats at less the price but with the added bonus of being able to pass better.

[ChumpDumper]

Statistically Nazr didn't do that much more that what Rasho did the year before except this past year, Ginobili rose his game to whole nother level.And Horry showed up after the first round.

[SpursIndonesia]

I've always longed for a good, young, potential Long SF as Bruce's future replacement rather than worrying about keeping a big who's service can be covered by other bigs that we have.

Nazr is a luxury that's not always the most rightful thing to have for this franchise's long term sake.

Rasho might not be the perfect answer, but i do believe that he's workable in our team system. And Oberto is molded the same way of Manu's, so the probability of him being successfull in this league is quite promising IMHO.

I think Nazr will still start for the going season, but if the FO can't get some sort of commitment from him for a financially responsible extension, and others showing some sort of interest in him & willing to trade with decent bargain, he'll be gone in the midseason.

Not bad for a first post, huh :angel

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Dude, honestly.

How many times have you seen the opposing team's point guard and shooting guard LAY IT UP OR DUNK right in Rasho's no-hops having face?
Compare that number, per game, to Nazr's.

All I know is, once Nazr started, I stopped saying the all-to-familar phrase:

":cuss ON OUR CENTER!!!?!!???!!! :bang :bang :cuss "


He may play good Team/Preventive defense, but once that guard is in the lane he's as worthless as a dying, suffocing, fish.

(that's just defense, his no-hops havin ass doesn't even konw how to pick up garbage duncan points)

What would you have Rasho do in those situations? Foul the guy? Act like he is Dikembe Mutombo and block him and wave his finger?

A lot of other centers also get caught out when they have to decide on whether to foul the damn guy or just give up on the play. If the opposing point guard or shooting guard is blowing by our perimeter defense, is it Rasho's fault? Rasho isnt a blocking stud. Nazr only gets ur blood pumping cause he goes up and challenges. Most of the time he gives up the foul. Sometimes he gets lucky and blocks a couple. Does it mean hes better on defense?

Shaq also has problems when quick guards get into the lane all his career. Does it mean Shaq's D is sucky?

Oh and I think I remember a play when Rasho blocked the living daylights out of a lousy ass of a shooting guard called Kobe Bryant. Kobe was left so stunned after that block that he didnt know whether to scream at the refs for not calling a foul or find a garbage bag to put over his head.

On the offense part. Has it occured to you why Nazr gets garbage points? Cause where would you put him if you were Pop? On the baseline to knock down a short jumper? Nazr doesnt have a jump shot. He aint a threat outside the paint. You gotta put him in the paint to be effective. Thats why he gets garbage points. Rasho on the other hand can hit the short mid range jumper and can thus pull the center out of place. This then allows Duncan and our slashers more space inside to score easier baskets. Thus less garbage points.

Lastly, if Duncan were to go down injured, who would you want as your center? Rasho who has shown that he can get a double double most nights without Duncan or your super hero Nazr?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I would like just one of you blabbering idiot to say: Rasho is to blame on .4 loss. Then I would die happy and smart.


If your boy Astro-Slovenian did not allow at least 2 layups in his face that game, then the point four shot would not have mattered.


Wreck shop like they roll don dubs? Please. Statistically Nazr didn't do that much more that what Rasho did the year before except this past year, Ginobili rose his game to whole nother level. In effect, the Spurs benefitted more from that than any contribution that either Rasho or Nazr provided.


Statisically, if you are talking player averages, those numbers are entirely irrelevant to anything that could be said in any legitimate Spurs thread.


Ginobili rising his game is partially irrelevant.

And Horry showed up after the first round.




---------
{all of the following is in reply to dalamar_the_dark..I don't mean to scoff him personally, cuz i respect his screenname}




If the opposing point guard or shooting guard is blowing by our perimeter defense, is it Rasho's fault?
No.


Rasho isnt a blocking stud.
Exactly.


Nazr only gets ur blood pumping cause he goes up and challenges.
Exactly. If it gets my blood pumping, guess how much it gets THE PLAYERS ON THE FLOOR pumping. Just think.


Most of the time he gives up the foul.
So does Astro-Slovenian Rasho just by putting his hands up. Would you rather give up a foul by holding your hands up like a little bitch or jumping and challenging? hmmm (stop and think of the number of and-one's rasho gives up...)


Sometimes he gets lucky and blocks a couple. Does it mean hes better on defense?
Granted, so does rasho. And, yes, I would consider who gets more blocks to be a better defender.


Shaq also has problems when quick guards get into the lane all his career. Does it mean Shaq's D is sucky?
No...he doesnt...you're thinking of parker too much..


Oh and I think I remember a play when Rasho blocked the living daylights out of a lousy ass of a shooting guard called Kobe Bryant. Kobe was left so stunned after that block that he didnt know whether to scream at the refs for not calling a foul or find a garbage bag to put over his head.
Yes. A PLAY (as in, ONE play. I have it on video as well.)


On the offense part. Has it occured to you why Nazr gets garbage points?
Yes. Because he can jump at decent level for his height.


Cause where would you put him if you were Pop? On the baseline to knock down a short jumper? Nazr doesnt have a jump shot.

Neither does Rasho. (at least not when it matters)


He aint a threat outside the paint.
And rasho does? rofl


You gotta put him in the paint to be effective.

ehhhhhh you're trying to defend rasho, right?


Thats why he gets garbage points.
And the fact is Rasho gets 1 out of 3 or 4 possible garbage points.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhh


Rasho on the other hand can hit the short mid range jumper and can thus pull the center out of place.
Yes, when we're already up by at least 12 or 14 points. Point out this upcoming season when Rasho hits a clutch jumper. I'll give you credit.


Lastly, if Duncan were to go down injured, who would you want as your center?
Nazr.

Rasho who has shown that he can get a double double most nights without Duncan or your super hero Nazr?
Technically this point is moot cuz we don't have enough games of Nazr solo like we do Rasho. But I'd still say Nazr.


------
Rasho has hit one clutch shot the entire previous season.

It was the christmas-ish-time Timerwolves game. I took pego, mookie, and I to the game for a christmas gift. Rasho grabbed a lose ball and actually dunked it.

Honestly, I am not bullshitting here: The entire SBC Center got so fucking pumped that Astro-Slovenian actually had the balls to dunk it that they erupted thunderously. This was in the 4th quarter while the game was NECK AND NECK. After this crowd eruption the spurs proceeded to overcome the Twolves.

Why would the entire SBC Center erupt at an all time night-high if Rasho were so good?
They were fucking begging for him to finish all fucking game that's why.


(in a partial counter-point, olowakandi was having a bad ass game, and mostly against duncan, not rasho)

[bigzak25]

With Oberto's price at $2.5 mil per season, Radoslav on the books for $30 mil over the next four seasons and Scola in the wings it is apparent that this will be Mohammed's last season (or half-season, for that matter) with the Spurs. With an expiring contract and at a relatively low salary in the final year of his contract Mohammed should be an attractive player on the trade block. So what can they hope to get for him?

A few potential suitors...

Atlanta Hawks

They are in dire need of quality bigs. Collier or Pachulia as a starting center? Yikes.


Memphis Grizzlies

Things have apparently soured with Lorenzen Wright, whose contract also ends after the 2005-06 season. After him they have Jake Tsakalidis.


Golden State Warriors

They always seem to be looking to deal.


Portland Trailblazers

They've endured declining production out of Ratliff and after him there's Pryzbilia.


New York Knicks

Zeke is at the helm.


Boston Celtics

Ainge might be amenable to an upgrade over LaFrentz.


I'd rather keep Naz til the end of the season. Seeing as how he was our main bigman in the playoffs after TD with Rasho picking splinters out of his tail, and seeing as how Oberto, while I have very high hopes, has yet to play vs NBA bigmen on a night in night out basis, i believe it is simply too early to make plans to let Naz go.

and he might suprise and settle for a lesser contract to stay with the Champs.

as many have said, it all depends on Rasho's progress or lack thereof. :tu

at least our FO has options. they've set themselves up well.

[ploto]

It's going to be funny next summer to see all the people flip-flop who wanted Rasho traded for financial- contract reasons when Nazr is the one whose gone for that very same reason. By then it will be obvious that the more prudent financial choice will be Rasho's contract over what Nazr is demanding and the Spurs will go with the cheaper option at that time- which ironically by then will be Rasho.

[Man In Black]

Statisically, if you are talking player averages, those numbers are entirely irrelevant to anything that could be said in any legitimate Spurs thread.


Okay statistically the Spurs holding opponents to 40% shooting is irrlevant as well. Hell them scoring 96 per is irrelevalt right?


Ginobili rising his game is partially irrelevant.

Riiiiggggggghhhhhhttttt!!!!

Like the Spurs could win the title without the uptick in Manu's partially irrelevant stats. Yeah :idiot

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Okay statistically the Spurs holding opponents to 40% shooting is irrlevant as well. Hell them scoring 96 per is irrelevalt right?



Riiiiggggggghhhhhhttttt!!!!

Like the Spurs could win the title without the uptick in Manu's partially irrelevant stats. Yeah :idiot


I was talking about individual statistics.

And manu ginobili having a bad ass post season has absolutely no effect on Rasho sucking ass at Defense or Nazr being better at defense. I never said it was irrelevant to winning a title. Check the name of the thread.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's going to be funny next summer to see all the people flip-flop who wanted Rasho traded for financial- contract reasons when Nazr is the one whose gone for that very same reason. By then it will be obvious that the more prudent financial choice will be Rasho's contract over what Nazr is demanding and the Spurs will go with the cheaper option at that time- which ironically by then will be Rasho.


It's not a matter of Rasho's price being less than Nazr's. It's a matter of the Spurs already being on the hook for 4 years and $30 mil to Radoslav.

Honestly, I think that if Oberto shows that he is capable of starting in this league, and the Spurs are able to, they'll move out both Nazr and Radoslav within the year.

The thing to remember is that Duncan functions as the backup center in SA. So with a starting center and Duncan there are already two centers on the roster.

[ducks]

I tend to agree with mb especially if they have to trade for bowen's replacement

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's not a matter of Rasho's price being less than Nazr's. It's a matter of the Spurs already being on the hook for 4 years and $30 mil to Radoslav.

Honestly, I think that if Oberto shows that he is capable of starting in this league, and the Spurs are able to, they'll move out both Nazr and Radoslav within the year.

The thing to remember is that Duncan functions as the backup center in SA. So with a starting center and Duncan there are already two centers on the roster.


Naturally.
Hopefully we get Desagna Diop.

[Buenos Hairys]

OBERTO MAMMOTH PENIS DOMINATE NBA

[baseline bum]

I'd rather get nothing for Nazr and have him for the postseason than trade him just to get something that won't be good enough to crack our main rotation. The prospects of resigning him do look grim though when the only other decent bigs on the market will be Ben Wallace, Tony Battie, Kelvin Cato, and possibly Jamaal Magloire.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd rather get nothing for Nazr and have him for the postseason than trade him just to get something that won't be good enough to crack our main rotation. The prospects of resigning him do look grim though when the only other decent bigs on the market will be Ben Wallace, Tony Battie, Kelvin Cato, and possibly Jamaal Magloire.
Exactly. Getting rid of Malik's salary and having a center that can contribute to two championships isn't bad. It's not like there's a real need at the center position for this team anyway. A healthy Nazr or a healthy Rasho...does it really make a difference? Anyone that answers yes is fooling themselves.

[ploto]

The thing, though, Marcus, is that it is much easier to get rid of Nazr. His contract will be over and his demands will be higher than Rasho's deal, so you can just let him go. To get rid of Rasho you have to work out a trade. Remember, the Spurs took almost 2 years to trade Malik and that took Isaiah Thomas and 2 first round picks to do it.

[Obstructed_View]

The thing to remember is that Duncan functions as the backup center in SA. So with a starting center and Duncan there are already two centers on the roster.
Sorry, but in that scenario you are going to have both centers on the bench at the same time. So who plays center? Horry? Then who plays the 4? You need at least two bigs that you can call fives in addition to Duncan. That means you need to pay either Rasho or Nazr. If Nazr is going to want more money than Rasho is currently getting you have to decide if that's a good deal, because the only reason people are bagging on Rasho is because the Spurs are paying him. The honeymoon will end as soon as Nazr signs a big contract.

[Dre_7]

Exactly. Getting rid of Malik's salary and having a center that can contribute to two championships isn't bad. It's not like there's a real need at the center position for this team anyway. A healthy Nazr or a healthy Rasho...does it really make a difference? Anyone that answers yes is fooling themselves.

Yes there is a difference cuz Nazr is better than Rasho!

[Obstructed_View]

Yes there is a difference cuz Nazr is better than Rasho!Nope. The only difference is your opinion of him, which means as much as nothing.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Nope. The only difference is your opinion of him, which means as much as nothing.


You cannot honestly tell me that there is no difference between nazr and rasho.

Yes Rasho positions himself better on defense, at least last season he did, but this new season we'll see if nazr gets the schemes better.

Nazr doesn't allow little bitch ass point guards to lay it up in his face, and if he fouls the slasher, he fouls them. He doesn't just hold his arms straight up in the air and push them with his body to give them an easy and-1.

If nazr shows this season he gets the defensive schemes better then he is heads and shoulders above Rasho.

Also, Rasho cannot go up strong and finish once he's got a rebound. Nazr can do this. Yes nazr has that shitty pump fake business, but he also has the ability to go up blogloads stronger and finish more than Rasho.

It's sad watching our center grab a rebound half a foot from the basket and try to float it in.

If nazr gets the defensive schemes better this year, keep him.
If Rasho somehow increases his athleticism then definitely keep rasho.

[Obstructed_View]

I can honestly (in my opinion) tell you that on this team, with Tim Duncan in the low post, there is no difference between the two, no matter how much you want to think so. Both of them have their problems on follow ups, Rasho goes weak half the time, Nazr walks or gets 3 sec. violations half the time. Both play good defense, decent offense, get rebounds, pass well, have decent hands, are big and understand the game plan, can score on occasion, have good days and bad days...

I can go on and on. For the same money, when both are healthy, there is no difference. I'd say "pick one" but you already have. That's fine, but you won't be able to convince me that there's a real difference. If this team gets to a point where they need the center to do more than he has been doing for the last couple of titles, the team has no chance anyway.

Without Duncan, Rasho is probably a better low post scorer. He's also a better shot blocker, but he doesn't seem to be as tough or as timely. I'd be inclined to agree with you that Nazr might be a better fit just because you don't have to worry about him getting that slapped-puppy-dog face and suddenly melting out of a game or a series. Rasho has a tendency to be a little pink sno-ball. Nazr might be able to develop with some time in this system, but you've possibly either let him go or paid him more than Rasho money before you find that out for sure.

Again, it's a crap shoot and mostly a matter of opinion at this point. We should at least let them fight it out for the starting spot. I've been dying to see if Rasho will get his ass in gear for a friendly competition for the minutes at the five. Let's give it a couple of weeks before we ship one of them off.

And you have to admit, what a great problem it is to have. Remember when the Spurs didn't have a real point guard and couldn't get rebounds?

[Marcus Bryant]

Sorry, but in that scenario you are going to have both centers on the bench at the same time. So who plays center? Horry? Then who plays the 4? You need at least two bigs that you can call fives in addition to Duncan. That means you need to pay either Rasho or Nazr. If Nazr is going to want more money than Rasho is currently getting you have to decide if that's a good deal, because the only reason people are bagging on Rasho is because the Spurs are paying him. The honeymoon will end as soon as Nazr signs a big contract.

TD sees about 20 minutes a night at the 4 and 20 at the 5 in the playoffs. If you have the starting center giving you about 28 a night as he should then there's no need for another 5.


Who sees the other minutes at the 4?

http://www.nba.com/media/spurs/horry_140_050619.jpg

Sure, I'd like to see the Spurs carry more bigman depth, but with an ownership that is spazzing out about paying a rounding error on total payroll for lux tax, it's not hard to see them both letting Mohammed walk and moving Radoslav.

[spurster]

To save money, the Spurs can simply let Nazr walk. As already mentioned, the Spurs have TD, Oberto, Rasho, Horry, and maybe next year Scola. Trading Nazr doesn't reduce salary.

[ducks]

spurs have scola next year when he wants to make the full mle before walking on a nba court and has a 15 million dollar buyout?

[Marcus Bryant]

To save money, the Spurs can simply let Nazr walk. As already mentioned, the Spurs have TD, Oberto, Rasho, Horry, and maybe next year Scola. Trading Nazr doesn't reduce salary.

Trading Mohammed could bring in a young 3.