#freeforbes?

[midnightpulp]

I think his performance tonight earned him some more minutes. Like I've said, we're going to need a PG platoon to have a shot against Wardell and Co.

[dabom]

Dude can pull a kevin martin for us when we really need someone. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Dude can pull a kevin martin for us when we really need someone. :lmao

Forbes impressed tonight, unlike someone who was 1-7 getting starters minutes against a tanking team :downspin:

When Murray gets healthy, we'll have a variety options at backup PG :tu

[Robz4000]

It's one game after 77 to show something. Let's not pull out our dicks just yet...

[dabom]

Patty Mills has showed up in all the big games and just when you needed him. No one seriously gives a shit if he goes zero and 20 this game. Except people like you. :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Forbes impressed tonight, unlike someone who was 1-7 getting starters minutes against a tanking team :downspin:

When Murray gets healthy, we'll have a variety options at backup PG :tu
Start Mills helmet crew :lmao

http://citizenthymes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/2013-02-15-15.33.32.jpg

[apalisoc_9]

Too early to tell, mid. He hasn't show that consistent "confidence" that a Guy like Bertans has shown this year.

Bertans has surpassed Simmons and Anderson imo.

[SpursforSix]

It's one game after 77 to show something. Let's not pull out our dicks just yet...

Agree. But even aside from making some shots, he looks like he's got some legit NBA skills.

[TheGreatYacht]

Laprovittola is averaging 4 & 2 and shooting 32% in Europe right now

Thank god and my bible we let that scrub go over Forbes....

[midnightpulp]

It's one game after 77 to show something. Let's not pull out our dicks just yet...

We're gonna have to. We can get away with business as usual in the early rounds, but against Golden State, every PG needs to be on a short-leash.

[Robz4000]

Agree. But even aside from making some shots, he looks like he's got some legit NBA skills.

Showed them tonight. It is encouraging that even when he hasn't shot well he's had 4/5 assist games. He'll never be even below-average on defense though.

[midnightpulp]

Patty Mills has showed up in all the big games and just when you needed him. No one seriously gives a shit if he goes zero and 20 this game. Except people like you. :lol

http://oi63.tinypic.com/nfi87a.jpg

[Robz4000]

We're gonna have to. We can get away with business as usual in the early rounds, but against Golden State, every PG needs to be on a short-leash.

This team isn't getting past GS this season; not even confident they get past Memphis. At this point I'm just thinking about the future and who can be a contributor on a regular basis. Still more sold on Patty despite his struggles than Forbes.

[TheGreatYacht]

http://oi63.tinypic.com/nfi87a.jpg
LMFAOOOOOO :lmao

[marinoman]

Is Murray done for the season? Spurs should sue his girlfriend for overworking his groin

[Chinook]

He did the thing he has to do to stay in the league. He has to keep doing that. Lucky for him, this game may have bought him another year of NBA money by itself. For a guy like him, you have to start with things like that.

[marinoman]

Patty really is feast or famine and in last years playoffs he was famine

[dabom]

Patty helped us get 2104. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Patty helped us get 2104. :lol

We're in 2017 now, my friend.

I like the Microwave, but if he ain't cooking, Murray or Forbes it is. If Parker is Enriqu'ing, then we go Murray>Forbes/Microwave.

[dabom]

We're in 2017 now, my friend.

I like the Microwave, but if he ain't cooking, Murray or Forbes it is. If Parker is Enriqu'ing, then we go Murray>Forbes/Microwave.


Porker hasn't done shit in the last 10 years and you still putting your hand in his pocket. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Porker hasn't done shit in the last 10 years and you still putting your hand in his pocket. :lmao

You're just trolling now. He was essential in getting the Spurs to the finals in 2013 and going up 2-1 against Miami. Hit the big clutch shot in game 6, too. And he didn't "suck" in 2014 aside from the Finals.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2u88nd5.jpg

And he was serviceable last season. Need I remind you again :lol

http://oi63.tinypic.com/nfi87a.jpg

[dabom]

You're just trolling now. He was essential in getting the Spurs to the finals in 2013 and going up 2-1 against Miami. Hit the big clutch shot in game 6, too. And he didn't "suck" in 2014 aside from the Finals.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2u88nd5.jpg

And he was serviceable last season. Need I remind you again :lol

http://oi63.tinypic.com/nfi87a.jpg

:lol

[dabom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=965l29uLkq0

[midnightpulp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=965l29uLkq0

Was Game 5 the only important game in that run?

[dabom]

Was Game 5 the only important game in that run?

It's how you finish. Not how you start.

[midnightpulp]

It's how you finish. Not how you start.

You don't get to finish if you start like shit.

Spurs faced only one elimination game that whole run, guess who stepped up with 32 points :downspin:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201405040SAS.html

[dabom]

Worrying about the first round. :lmao

[dabom]

Comparing the Finals to the first round. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Worrying about the first round. :lmao

What happens if the Spurs lose that game?

Now you're really reeeeaching. Game 7s don't matter. :lol

Just admit you were wrong about Parker not contributing to the Spurs successes in the past 10 years, and we can move on.

[dabom]

Spurs were gonna win that series with porkers inefficient shooting or not. If it wasn't for Vince Carter, we finish that series in 5. :lol

[ElNono]

The only reason that Mavs series went 7 games is largely because Tony sucked in the first 6 games, tbh... some people need to go back and check out the games instead of boxscore reading... he was getting killed by freaking Calderon...

[dabom]

The only reason that Mavs series went 7 games is largely because Tony sucked in the first 6 games, tbh... some people need to go back and check out the games instead of boxscore reading... he was getting killed by freaking Calderon...

Dude sucked. Like always. :lmao

[ElNono]

(And I'm not defending Patty either on that series, he sucked too).

We don't even get to a game 7 if not for Manu and Tiago carrying us the first 6 games, and DeJuan Blair getting ejected for kicking Tiago.

[midnightpulp]

Spurs were gonna win that series with porkers inefficient shooting or not. If it wasn't for Vince Carter, we finish that series in 5. :lol

"If, would, could."

Who cares? The was a game 7. And Parker killed it.

How was Parker inefficient in that series? I think you got him confused with your boy Patty :lmao

http://oi63.tinypic.com/25rdwjo.jpg

Just admit defeat, bro. It's okay.

[ElNono]

Dude sucked. Like always. :lmao

He was injured too, though... remember he couldn't finish the next series against Portland nor the WCF against OKC...

[MultiTroll]

I think his performance tonight earned him some more minutes. Like I've said, we're going to need a PG platoon to have a shot against Wardell and Co.
Hey I remember this guy named Bonner man!
That dude could ball!
Lets bring back some of the same playoff memories the BonBon provided!

[dabom]

Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
34:09
11
19
.579
0
1
.000
10
13
.769
0
4
4
4
0
0
3
1
32
+13


Danny Green (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenda02.html)
32:09
5
7
.714
4
6
.667
2
2
1.000
0
3
3
1
1
1
0
4
16
+21


Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)
30:58
7
8
.875
0
0

1
2
.500
3
5
8
1
0
2
2
2
15
+23


Kawhi Leonard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html)
29:14
7
14
.500
1
5
.200
0
1
.000
1
5
6
1
0
0
0
2
15
+15


Tiago Splitter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/splitti01.html)
15:15
0
0

0
0

1
2
.500
1
1
2
0
1
1
0
4
1
+15


Reserves
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS
+/-


Boris Diaw (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diawbo01.html)
26:35
3
5
.600
0
1
.000
2
2
1.000
1
6
7
5
1
0
1
3
8
+16


Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
23:35
5
7
.714
2
3
.667
8
9
.889
0
3
3
5
6
0
3
2
20
+32


Patty Mills (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa02.html)
17:04
2
8
.250
2
6
.333
1
2
.500
0
3
3
2
1
0
0
3
7
+17


Marco Belinelli (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/belinma01.html)
9:46
2
4
.500
1
2
.500
0
0

0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
5
-11




:lmao

[dabom]

He was injured too, though... remember he couldn't finish the next series against Portland nor the WCF against OKC...

Thank god. :lol

[midnightpulp]

The only reason that Mavs series went 7 games is largely because Tony sucked in the first 6 games, tbh... some people need to go back and check out the games instead of boxscore reading... he was getting killed by freaking Calderon...

Tony was 9-16 for 21 points in Game 1 for a +20 box. Jose Calderon was a huge 3-9 for 7 points.

Game 2: Tony, 10 points 5-10, Calderon 5-10, 12 points. Lost the battle.

Game 3: Tony 19 points on 50%, Calderon 16 points on 70%. Adv: Calderon. Let's not forget the Client had 12 points on 4-14 shooting in a one point loss.

Game 4. Parker was definitely subpar. 10 points on 5-15. No debate here.

Game 5. 23 points on 9-23 shooting. Calderon a big 8 points on 3-9 shooting. Tony won the battle. Let's not forget Vince Carter's 28 points on 10-16 shooting off the bench. Guess who woulda been guarding Carter a lot? Client

Game 6. 22 points on 10-23 shooting with 5TOs. No debate Tony was a detriment that game.

Game 7. Clutch as a motherfucker.

So no, he didn't "suck" in the first 6 games. :lol Using selective memory to prop up the Client.

I would say Tony had a typical series for a fringe level all-star player, which he was at that point.

[FkLA]

Laprovittola is averaging 4 & 2 and shooting 32% in Europe right now

WTF. How does a guy like that even make an NBA roster smh.

[dabom]

Watch the games. Porker was trash. :lmao

Dude always stat pads in blowouts good though. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
34:09
11
19
.579
0
1
.000
10
13
.769
0
4
4
4
0
0
3
1
32
+13


Danny Green (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenda02.html)
32:09
5
7
.714
4
6
.667
2
2
1.000
0
3
3
1
1
1
0
4
16
+21


Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)
30:58
7
8
.875
0
0

1
2
.500
3
5
8
1
0
2
2
2
15
+23


Kawhi Leonard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html)
29:14
7
14
.500
1
5
.200
0
1
.000
1
5
6
1
0
0
0
2
15
+15


Tiago Splitter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/splitti01.html)
15:15
0
0

0
0

1
2
.500
1
1
2
0
1
1
0
4
1
+15


Reserves
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS
+/-


Boris Diaw (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diawbo01.html)
26:35
3
5
.600
0
1
.000
2
2
1.000
1
6
7
5
1
0
1
3
8
+16


Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
23:35
5
7
.714
2
3
.667
8
9
.889
0
3
3
5
6
0
3
2
20
+32


Patty Mills (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa02.html)
17:04
2
8
.250
2
6
.333
1
2
.500
0
3
3
2
1
0
0
3
7
+17


Marco Belinelli (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/belinma01.html)
9:46
2
4
.500
1
2
.500
0
0

0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
5
-11




:lmao

So Patty was better than Kawhi too that game.

Sure thing :lol

[midnightpulp]

Watch the games. Porker was trash. :lmao

Dude always stat pads in blowouts good though. :lol

Patty was the one who came in up 30 and hit a 3 to go from 1-7 to 2-8 :lol

And :lol at single game +/-.

[dabom]

So Patty was better than Kawhi too that game.

Sure thing :lol

I'm gonna let you pump the whole forbes thing dude. I'm done. :lol

[midnightpulp]

I'm gonna let you pump the whole forbes thing dude. I'm done. :lol

Of course you are :lol

[MaNu4Tres]

Murray and Forbes >> Paying Patty 40-50 mil.

Bye Patty, I wont miss your D. Thanks for the shots thst we probablydidnt need vs the Heat

[dabom]

Murray and Forbes >> Paying Patty 40-50 mil.

Bye Patty, I wont miss your D. Thanks for the shots thst we probablydidnt need vs the Heat

You're turning into a faggot now dude. :lmao

[dabom]

Make yourself look like an even bigger dumbass. It's your rep. :lol

[Hoops Czar]

Tony was 9-16 for 21 points in Game 1 for a +20 box. Jose Calderon was a huge 3-9 for 7 points.

Game 2: Tony, 10 points 5-10, Calderon 5-10, 12 points. Lost the battle.

Game 3: Tony 19 points on 50%, Calderon 16 points on 70%. Adv: Calderon. Let's not forget the Client had 12 points on 4-14 shooting in a one point loss.

Game 4. Parker was definitely subpar. 10 points on 5-15. No debate here.

Game 5. 23 points on 9-23 shooting. Calderon a big 8 points on 3-9 shooting. Tony won the battle. Let's not forget Vince Carter's 28 points on 10-16 shooting off the bench. Guess who woulda been guarding Carter a lot? Client

Game 6. 22 points on 10-23 shooting with 5TOs. No debate Tony was a detriment that game.

Game 7. Clutch as a motherfucker.

So no, he didn't "suck" in the first 6 games. :lol Using selective memory to prop up the Client.

I would say Tony had a typical series for a fringe level all-star player, which he was at that point.

He was confusing the 2014 playoffs with the 2010 playoffs.

[MaNu4Tres]

[QUOTE=dabom;8959448]Make yourself look like an even bigger dumbass.

Im glad. ��

[spursgu]

You know our guard depth is shit when people are saying Forbes needs minutes against the Dubs.

[ElNono]

Tony was 9-16 for 21 points in Game 1 for a +20 box. Jose Calderon was a huge 3-9 for 7 points.

Game 2: Tony, 10 points 5-10, Calderon 5-10, 12 points. Lost the battle.

Game 3: Tony 19 points on 50%, Calderon 16 points on 70%. Adv: Calderon. Let's not forget the Client had 12 points on 4-14 shooting in a one point loss.

Game 4. Parker was definitely subpar. 10 points on 5-15. No debate here.

Game 5. 23 points on 9-23 shooting. Calderon a big 8 points on 3-9 shooting. Tony won the battle. Let's not forget Vince Carter's 28 points on 10-16 shooting off the bench. Guess who woulda been guarding Carter a lot? Client

Game 6. 22 points on 10-23 shooting with 5TOs. No debate Tony was a detriment that game.

Game 7. Clutch as a motherfucker.

So no, he didn't "suck" in the first 6 games. :lol Using selective memory to prop up the Client.

I would say Tony had a typical series for a fringe level all-star player, which he was at that point.

So he sucked in Game 2 (at home), Game 4, Game 6 and we're talking fucking Calderon. And excuse me, but the basket that put us ahead on that game VC won with a 3? The Client. So yeah, no.

We're talking Tony coming out of a 'MVP' season (2013), right? HOTS? Calderon? really?

Look, I didn't say anything bad about Tony, just that the only reason that series went 7 was because he sucked against fucking Calderon. It's annoying people bringing up his Game 7, like he was some sort of savior, when he couldn't outplay easy competition in the first 6 games. We're talking Calderon, who's a PG that can't event shoot.

Now, if somebody wants to tell me TP was injured, ok. I can get that. But then, he was pretty good against Portland (until the closeout game).

[ElNono]

I still remember (I should go bump it up), that the consensus after that series is that the Manu/Tiago pick&roll against Dirk and DeJuan Blair's dumbassery won us that series.

You also gotta give Carlisle props, he really tested our team that series.

[Raven]

no, he's terrible defensively.

[BillMc]

We now have 3 rookies who have scored over twenty in a game. That's never happened for the Spurs before. Pop gives you your chances. As Chinook said, Forbes may just have bought himself another NBA season.

[SpursforSix]

Showed them tonight. It is encouraging that even when he hasn't shot well he's had 4/5 assist games. He'll never be even below-average on defense though.

Yeah. And some of those assists were pretty good looks. Not just throwing the ball to a wide open dude. Hope you're wrong about the D but I see it. But there's plenty of PG that suck at D. Unfortunately we have 3 of them.

[ceperez]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dAo4OkrQCE

[cd021]

(And I'm not defending Patty either on that series, he sucked too).

We don't even get to a game 7 if not for Manu and Tiago carrying us the first 6 games, and DeJuan Blair getting ejected for kicking Tiago.

Tiago was great in that series, also Diaw probably saved our season with that go ahead 3 in game 4 to keep us from going down 3-1

[diego]

Tony was 9-16 for 21 points in Game 1 for a +20 box. Jose Calderon was a huge 3-9 for 7 points.

Game 2: Tony, 10 points 5-10, Calderon 5-10, 12 points. Lost the battle.

Game 3: Tony 19 points on 50%, Calderon 16 points on 70%. Adv: Calderon. Let's not forget the Client had 12 points on 4-14 shooting in a one point loss.

Game 4. Parker was definitely subpar. 10 points on 5-15. No debate here.

Game 5. 23 points on 9-23 shooting. Calderon a big 8 points on 3-9 shooting. Tony won the battle. Let's not forget Vince Carter's 28 points on 10-16 shooting off the bench. Guess who woulda been guarding Carter a lot? Client

Game 6. 22 points on 10-23 shooting with 5TOs. No debate Tony was a detriment that game.

Game 7. Clutch as a motherfucker.

So no, he didn't "suck" in the first 6 games. :lol Using selective memory to prop up the Client.

I would say Tony had a typical series for a fringe level all-star player, which he was at that point.

Sorry but this post is some bullshit. You have Calderón vs Parker, then suddenly you stop giving Calderón numbers and deflecting with Manu..

Calderon obviously had good (for him) games in games 4 and 6, but regardless of the stupidity of comparing the two (unless you think theyre in the same tier?), the point with Parker that series was the usual critique of him (only great at scoring) that time it was actually valid because Parker didn't do what he usually does to undermine that critique (take care of the ball). Manu in less minutes had nearly the same total assist and turnovers, had more rebounds, 5x(!) the steals, +20 fta... He also scored 124 to vc's 88 over nearly the same minutes and thoroughly outplayed him overall, Parker with 40 more minutes than Calderón had 2 more assists and three times the turnovers, and that's including the game 7.

Calderón had less of an impact than Parker, but he did outplay him in numerous games despite Parker being a star player on the 1St seed and Calderón being a roleplayer on the 8th. Manu, splitter and diaw saved the Spurs from the worst embarrassment in franchise history. Cherry picking stats from certain games won't change that.

[Down Under]

He could play the Mills role off the bench. Someone is going to throw stupid money at Patty and it's going to be his only career payday.

[midnightpulp]

Sorry but this post is some bullshit. You have Calderón vs Parker, then suddenly you stop giving Calderón numbers and deflecting with Manu..

Calderon obviously had good (for him) games in games 4 and 6, but regardless of the stupidity of comparing the two (unless you think theyre in the same tier?), the point with Parker that series was the usual critique of him (only great at scoring) that time it was actually valid because Parker didn't do what he usually does to undermine that critique (take care of the ball). Manu in less minutes had nearly the same total assist and turnovers, had more rebounds, 5x(!) the steals, +20 fta... He also scored 124 to vc's 88 over nearly the same minutes and thoroughly outplayed him overall, Parker with 40 more minutes than Calderón had 2 more assists and three times the turnovers, and that's including the game 7.

Calderón had less of an impact than Parker, but he did outplay him in numerous games despite Parker being a star player on the 1St seed and Calderón being a roleplayer on the 8th. Manu, splitter and diaw saved the Spurs from the worst embarrassment in franchise history. Cherry picking stats from certain games won't change that.

There was no point to listing Calderon's stats in game's 4 and 6 because it doesn't matter. Tony was obviously inefficient and didn't take care of the ball. I'm not "crediting" him for those games.

Your also err in reducing the Calderon/Tony matchup to a one-on-one affair. As you said, Calderon was a roleplayer, so he wasn't going to draw any defensive attention nor schemes aside from man coverage. Parker was still the Spurs' best offensive player going into that series and would've faced much tougher team defenses than anything Calderon encountered from the Spurs.

I've joked about the Matt Barnes/Kawhi thing before, but it's the same dynamic. Clippers were focused on Kawhi while the Spurs didn't really give a shit about Matt Barnes.

"Parker couldn't take of the ball."

You realize Manu had more TOs in the series, right? Oh, but those don't "count" since it's Manu, a top 3 beloved Spur of all-time. Parker also averaged more assists, making his overall AST/TO ratio better.

The lengths Parker haters will go to discredit him :lol

End of the day, no one player for the Spurs in that series was consistent from Game 1 to 7. There were a variety of "culprits" responsible for the games the Spurs lost. It's not all on one player. But as I've said, Parker is the only Spur not allowed to make mistakes.

[midnightpulp]

BTW, here's Manu's combined stats in Games 3 and 6, which were swing/closeout games the Spurs lost by one and two points.

9ppg on 22% shooting, 4.5apg, 2.5TOs.

"Manu saved us that series."

:lmao

ElNono get in here and :downspin: this one for the Client.

[TheGreatYacht]

BTW, here's Manu's combined stats in Games 3 and 6, which were swing/closeout games the Spurs lost by one and two points.

9ppg on 22% shooting, 4.5apg, 2.5TOs.

"Manu saved us that series."

:lmao

ElNono (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8054) get in here and :downspin: this one for the Client.
You didn't know? Manure fans change history

[midnightpulp]

You didn't know? Manure fans change history

I love Manu, too, but wow are they biased.

[duncan2k5]

Forbes? You guys MUST be kidding...dude turns down ore shots than a kid's first time at the clinic...no way I'm throwing him in a playoff game over patty based on what they've shown all season

[diego]

There was no point to listing Calderon's stats in game's 4 and 6 because it doesn't matter. Tony was obviously inefficient and didn't take care of the ball. I'm not "crediting" him for those games.

Your also err in reducing the Calderon/Tony matchup to a one-on-one affair. As you said, Calderon was a roleplayer, so he wasn't going to draw any defensive attention nor schemes aside from man coverage. Parker was still the Spurs' best offensive player going into that series and would've faced much tougher team defenses than anything Calderon encountered from the Spurs.

I've joked about the Matt Barnes/Kawhi thing before, but it's the same dynamic. Clippers were focused on Kawhi while the Spurs didn't really give a shit about Matt Barnes.

"Parker couldn't take of the ball."

You realize Manu had more TOs in the series, right? Oh, but those don't "count" since it's Manu, a top 3 beloved Spur of all-time. Parker also averaged more assists, making his overall AST/TO ratio better.

The lengths Parker haters will go to discredit him :lol

End of the day, no one player for the Spurs in that series was consistent from Game 1 to 7. There were a variety of "culprits" responsible for the games the Spurs lost. It's not all on one player. But as I've said, Parker is the only Spur not allowed to make mistakes.

Of course Manu had more turnovers for the series, low turnovers is not manu's strength it's parkers. The fact that Tony had basically the same assists/turnovers as Manu should tell you that it was a poor series for Parker.

Manu brings other things to the table to make up for the turnovers and bad shooting, like 5x the steals, more rebounds, fta, charges drawn if you want to look them up, etc.

I wish Parker keeps playing till 37, 38, 39 just to see if you guys still want to compare his production to Manu at that age..

[TheGreatYacht]

Of course Manu had more turnovers for the series, low turnovers is not manu's strength it's parkers. The fact that Tony had basically the same assists/turnovers as Manu should tell you that it was a poor series for Parker.
Basically confirming what we knew all along. Parker gets held to a higher standard than Manure. Parker has the superior numbers all time (and it's not close) but Manure gets ranked above because of his :cry heart :cry ..... or in other words, he's Latino like most of you.
Brazil

[spurraider21]

He's been shitty all year, has one good game against a non playoff team when were resting half the squad and mid thinks he's earned playoff minutes? :lmao

[spurraider21]

The only reason that Mavs series went 7 games is largely because Tony sucked in the first 6 games, tbh... some people need to go back and check out the games instead of boxscore reading... he was getting killed by freaking Calderon...manu and splitter were the mvp's of that series, though duncan carried gamd 1 and parker killed it in game 7

[Hoops Czar]

Basically confirming what we knew all along. Parker gets held to a higher standard than Manure. Parker has the superior numbers all time (and it's not close) but Manure gets ranked above because of his :cry heart :cry ..... or in other words, he's Latino like most of you.
Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466)

We all know the only real reason that series was close in the first place was because of Mr. finals MVP's disappearing act for the vast majority of the series and Monta Ellis going ham sandwich on Ginobili's/Green's/Leonard's Swiss cheese defense. Who was guarding dat Vince carter buzzer again?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGyDSppRxg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AywYhaauS5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZcvsi_DV0U

[TheGreatYacht]

We all know the only real reason that series was close in the first place was because of Mr. finals MVP's disappearing act for the vast majority of the series and Monta Ellis going ham sandwich on Ginobili's/Green's/Leonard's Swiss cheese defense. Who was guarding dat Vince carter buzzer again?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGyDSppRxg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AywYhaauS5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZcvsi_DV0U
:wow holy shit.......

[Southwest Texas Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=965l29uLkq0

He needs to shave the beard.

[ElNono]

manu and splitter were the mvp's of that series, though duncan carried gamd 1 and parker killed it in game 7

Wow, ridiculous Manure fan!

Let me add some emoticons too... :downspin: :blah:nope:rolleyes:ihit

[ElNono]

We all know the only real reason that series was close in the first place was because of Mr. finals MVP's disappearing act for the vast majority of the series and Monta Ellis going ham sandwich on Ginobili's/Green's/Leonard's Swiss cheese defense. Who was guarding dat Vince carter buzzer again?

Who put us up with a clutch basket on the road before that VC3? Let's take a look...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p2EYXcR1uA

So yeah, Vince hit a hell of a shot, but let's not pretend Manu wasn't clutch as fuck at like 37 years old...

[ElNono]

Basically confirming what we knew all along. Parker gets held to a higher standard than Manure. Parker has the superior numbers all time (and it's not close) but Manure gets ranked above because of his :cry heart :cry ..... or in other words, he's Latino like most of you.
Brazil

Of course he's held to higher standard at that point in his career. Are you kidding me? Manu was like 37 already back then, and in that series he had to guard athletic freaks like Monta or even a guy like Vince Carter that even today is still schooling guys.

One of our mismatches that series was HOTS vs Calderon, and it didn't happen until Game 7...

I'm going back to what I said originally, that series went 7 because Tony wasn't HOTS until Game 7... that's factually accurate. Mid even put the numbers.

[spurraider21]

Who put us up with a clutch basket on the road before that VC3? Let's take a look...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p2EYXcR1uA

So yeah, Vince hit a hell of a shot, but let's not pretend Manu wasn't clutch as fuck at like 37 years old...shades of 2008 game winner against phoenix game 1

[ElNono]

shades of 2008 game winner against phoenix game 1

Notice Tony wasn't even on the floor in that play... he was, on paper, our best player... wasn't even out there in the clutch.

Now, it's completely fair to say he was injured... He eventually missed games in later rounds, so I would buy that explanation, but let's stop pretending he didn't suck until game 7...

[Hoops Czar]

Who put us up with a clutch basket on the road before that VC3? Let's take a look...
So yeah, Vince hit a hell of a shot, but let's not pretend Manu wasn't clutch as fuck at like 37 years old...

I'm not a player fan Nono. I'm responding to the heckling few who want to blame Tony for being the main reason why the Mavs/Spurs series went seven games and that simply couldn't be further from the truth. Feel free to continue putting that series on the spin cycle. Nice shot by Manu though.


Notice Tony wasn't even on the floor in that play... he was, on paper, our best player... wasn't even out there in the clutch.

Now, it's completely fair to say he was injured... He eventually missed games in later rounds, so I would buy that explanation, but let's stop pretending he didn't suck until game 7...

It's funny you say this... There were a few highly regarded posters saying all season that statistically speaking, Tony was one of the worst pgs in the league.... And his injuries weren't actually injuries but built-in excuses for his poor play and serious signs of regression.

[ElNono]

I'm not a player fan Nono. I'm responding to the heckling few who want to blame Tony for being the main reason why the Mavs/Spurs series went seven games and that simply couldn't be further from the truth. Feel free to continue putting that series on the spin cycle. Nice shot by Manu though.

I said it was 'largely' the reason, not the sole reason (I specifically mentioned Patty sucked too), and I don't think it's any horror to say that. Like I said, if somebody tells me he was injured, I wouldn't necessarily take it as an excuse, seeing he ended up missing games later down the road. But that Tony coming out of a blistering 2013 playoffs couldn't abuse Calderon? He wouldn't even finish games? I mean, I don't think it's unfair at all to say that. Just like it's completely fair to say he did show up in Game 7... (so did Manu and Tim, BTW)


It's funny you say this... There were a few highly regarded posters saying all season that statistically speaking, Tony was one of the worst pgs in the league.... And his injuries weren't actually injuries but built-in excuses for his poor play and serious signs of regression.

I don't think I was one of those posters, but, in hindsight, I think it's hard to argue that wasn't the beginning of his decline. Not that series particularly, but that whole playoff run. This was a team that, comes the Finals, moved away from him and went into team play to beat the Heat, and didn't need him to close the Blazers and the Thunder in the WCF. Pop telling him he needed to just lead and Tony saying he had to trust his teammates (there's video of that if you need it).

I'm not 'celebrating' that, I'm just being intellectually honest. I much rather have had explosive Tony than that version. Much like I wanted to have dominant Tim and Manu. But we had what we had.

People accuse me of doing revisionist history when they're doing it themselves... You want to credit Tony for a great series that season? That was the Portland series until he went down.

[Hoops Czar]

I said it was 'largely' the reason, not the sole reason (I specifically mentioned Patty sucked too), and I don't think it's any horror to say that. Like I said, if somebody tells me he was injured, I wouldn't necessarily take it as an excuse, seeing he ended up missing games later down the road. But that Tony coming out of a blistering 2013 playoffs couldn't abuse Calderon? He wouldn't even finish games? I mean, I don't think it's unfair at all to say that. Just like it's completely fair to say he did show up in Game 7... (so did Manu and Tim, BTW)



I don't think I was one of those posters, but, in hindsight, I think it's hard to argue that wasn't the beginning of his decline. Not that series particularly, but that whole playoff run. This was a team that, comes the Finals, moved away from him and went into team play to beat the Heat, and didn't need him to close the Blazers and the Thunder in the WCF. Pop telling him he needed to just lead and Tony saying he had to trust his teammates (there's video of that if you need it).

I'm not 'celebrating' that, I'm just being intellectually honest. I much rather have had explosive Tony than that version. Much like I wanted to have dominant Tim and Manu. But we had what we had.

People accuse me of doing revisionist history when they're doing it themselves... You want to credit Tony for a great series that season? That was the Portland series until he went down.

I was very careful not to use the word "solely". :lol "Largely", "Mostly", "Mainly".... let's not not get hung up on semantics. We both know what that implies. Not in one of my posts did I say Tony had a great series. There were many factors that led the series down the path to seven games. What tops my list is the lack of production from Kawhi Leonard (I know, I know, I'm Satan's baby for acknowledging it) and to a greater extent, the inability to slowdown Monta Ellis. We're talking about a five, possibly four game series if Monta Ellis doesn't go off and that's taking into account Tony Parker's production, or lack thereof, depending on your school of thought. Personally, based on expectation from the regular season, he had a realistically good series. He was plagued by the lack of overall consistency that was present in 2013 but, he was fairly decent and had his moments in nearly all the games but, stepped up big, in the clutch of a do or die game 7.

Not going to scrutinize Tony's defense anymore than it has to be because it's never been good, not even in his prime. If opposing players are putting up big numbers against Parker (more so now than in the past), it usually has to do with poor help defense. The defense struggled at times in that series. Speaking about Calderon, not sure what, if any specific plays from that series are lodged in your memory that makes you think he torched Parker. Outside of game three, he didn't do anything out of the ordinary. Also, Tony's defense was that bad at all, victim of some picks, had his hand in Calderon's face on some shots, ya know, all the good things we say about Leonard and Ginobili when they get beat on the defensive end. Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the offensive player even if that players name is Matt Barnes, I mean Alexey Shved, I mean Jose Calderon. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VeSCb2NcLs

[spurraider21]

Notice Tony wasn't even on the floor in that play... he was, on paper, our best player... wasn't even out there in the clutch.

Now, it's completely fair to say he was injured... He eventually missed games in later rounds, so I would buy that explanation, but let's stop pretending he didn't suck until game 7...where did i say otherwise? seems like you're going full "rent free" tbh...

[ginobilized]

Focus, my Spurs friends!

I'm psyched for Bryn Forbes big night. It's a positive thing. Nice way to end his rookie season and we might need a shooter in a situation or two. Doubt he plays in playoffs this year, though.

I have a feeling that Pop sees something in him and I trust that.

[ElNono]

where did i say otherwise? seems like you're going full "rent free" tbh...

comment wasn't directed at you, tbh... just saying, I keep hearing (not from you) that game 7 is apparently all that matters in that series...

[ElNono]

I was very careful not to use the word "solely". :lol "Largely", "Mostly", "Mainly".... let's not not get hung up on semantics. We both know what that implies. Not in one of my posts did I say Tony had a great series. There were many factors that led the series down the path to seven games. What tops my list is the lack of production from Kawhi Leonard (I know, I know, I'm Satan's baby for acknowledging it) and to a greater extent, the inability to slowdown Monta Ellis. We're talking about a five, possibly four game series if Monta Ellis doesn't go off and that's taking into account Tony Parker's production, or lack thereof, depending on your school of thought. Personally, based on expectation from the regular season, he had a realistically good series. He was plagued by the lack of overall consistency that was present in 2013 but, he was fairly decent and had his moments in nearly all the games but, stepped up big, in the clutch of a do or die game 7.

Not going to scrutinize Tony's defense anymore than it has to be because it's never been good, not even in his prime. If opposing players are putting up big numbers against Parker (more so now than in the past), it usually has to do with poor help defense. The defense struggled at times in that series. Speaking about Calderon, not sure what, if any specific plays from that series are lodged in your memory that makes you think he torched Parker. Outside of game three, he didn't do anything out of the ordinary. Also, Tony's defense was that bad at all, victim of some picks, had his hand in Calderon's face on some shots, ya know, all the good things we say about Leonard and Ginobili when they get beat on the defensive end. Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the offensive player even if that players name is Matt Barnes, I mean Alexey Shved, I mean Jose Calderon. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VeSCb2NcLs

:lol I'm not hating, tbh, I'm just shredding the notion there's some 'rewriting history' stuff going on here...

Kawhi that year didn't even get plays called for him, hard to make that argument. I won't. If you want to draw a parallel, then you can easily look at the Clippers series a year later, where Matt Barnes didn't score 20 a game, but on paper that was a matchup where we were supposed to have an advantage. That we didn't, at least completely, you can blame on the coach, the player, both, but it's not rewriting history to say it happened.

EDIT: About Calderon, he's a slow footed, bad defender, that couldn't shoot. But we couldn't exploit it. Like I said, you can blame it on whoever, but Game 7 wasn't an aberration, it should've been more or less the norm (you can have a bad game or two), considering the matchup, IMO.

[midnightpulp]

manu and splitter were the mvp's of that series, though duncan carried gamd 1 and parker killed it in game 7

The two games the spurs lost by 1 and 2, Manu averaged 9ppg on 22 percent. So no. He didn't carry shit.

[spurraider21]

The two games the spurs lost by 1 and 2, Manu averaged 9ppg on 22 percent. So no. He didn't carry shit.cherry pick 2 games. incredible analysis. especially when in one of those games (loss by 1) he hit the go ahead shot that was spoiled by carter's insane 3. so even in one of the 2 games you decided to cherry pick, he was THIS close to being the hero hitting the game winner.

[dabom]

cherry pick 2 games. incredible analysis
:lol

The guy is a cherry picker. :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

The two games the spurs lost by 1 and 2, Manu averaged 9ppg on 22 percent. So no. He didn't carry shit.

[spurraider21]

and in the 4 wins he averaged 19.8 points on 48% shooting, 4.5 assists, 2.8 steals in about 28 min per game

[apalisoc_9]

:lol

The guy is a cherry picker. :lol

Damn..reminds me of the fact that I havent had sex in two months. Been wanting to Pop a legal 17 year old cherry but his dad is intimidating. Wouldn't surprise me if he breaks a part of my body :lol

[apalisoc_9]

and in the 4 wins he averaged 19.8 points on 48% shooting, 4.5 assists, 2.8 steals in about 28 min per game

Porker:lmao

[spurraider21]

Porker:lmaopost about manu... replies about parker

rent free

do you check under your bed for tony parker before you sleep every night?

[Chinook]

post about manu... replies about parker

rent free

do you check under your bed for tony parker before you sleep every night?

I bet he will when he gets married.

[dabom]

Damn..reminds me of the fact that I havent had sex in two months. Been wanting to Pop a legal 17 year old cherry but his dad is intimidating. Wouldn't surprise me if he breaks a part of my body :lol

:lol

[spurraider21]

Damn..reminds me of the fact that I havent had sex in two months. Been wanting to Pop a legal 17 year old cherry but his dad is intimidating. Wouldn't surprise me if he breaks a part of my body :lol
:lmao

[midnightpulp]

cherry pick 2 games. incredible analysis. especially when in one of those games (loss by 1) he hit the go ahead shot that was spoiled by carter's insane 3. so even in one of the 2 games you decided to cherry pick, he was THIS close to being the hero hitting the game winner.

:lmao This level of Philo'ing.

I actually started out by posting the series stats, then Manu fans came in here and started referencing individual games and moments. "Well, if Manu didn't do this and that in this one and that other game, Spurs would've lost the series. He carried us!" And :lol at using the Kobe defense for Manu. ":cry I know he was inefficient the rest of the game, b-b-but, um, he hit a big shot!"

The argument against Parker that Manu fans countered with regarding this series was that if Parker played up to par, the series would've never gone 7. Guess what? Manu played well, well under par in 2 close losses (22% fuckin' shooting). So that exact same argument can be applied to him. But he probably dove for a loose ball or something and all was forgiven because "dat heart."

And about those stats in wins:

Parker 21.5ppg, 47%, 4.5apg.

All-star level stats by any measure.

Think before you Philo.

[ElNono]

:lmao This level of Philo'ing.

I actually started out by posting the series stats, then Manu fans came in here and started referencing individual games and moments. "Well, if Manu didn't do this and that in this one and that other game, Spurs would've lost the series. He carried us!" And :lol at using the Kobe defense for Manu. ":cry I know he was inefficient the rest of the game, b-b-but, um, he hit a big shot!"

The argument against Parker that Manu fans countered with regarding this series was that if Parker played up to par, the series would've never gone 7. Guess what? Manu played well, well under par in 2 close losses (22% fuckin' shooting). So that exact same argument can be applied to him. But he probably dove for a loose ball or something and all was forgiven because "dat heart."

And about those stats in wins:

Parker 21.5ppg, 47%, 4.5apg.

All-star level stats by any measure.

Think before you Philo.

Why are you comparing Manu's role and Tony's role in that team? Up to that season, it was Parker's team. HOTS. He had a favorable matchup in that series... he didn't even close out those 'close' games...

Why do you gloss over any of those arguments?

Look, that's not hating on Tony. Yes, much more was expected of him than Manu, and yes Manu and Tiago did deliver much more than anybody else that series.

Just like Tony was a whole lot better than Manu against Portland, in the following series. There's no shame in that, there's no hating on Manu for saying it, tbh...

[spurraider21]

:lmao This level of Philo'ing.

I actually started out by posting the series stats, then Manu fans came in here and started referencing individual games and moments. "Well, if Manu didn't do this and that in this one and that other game, Spurs would've lost the series. He carried us!" And :lol at using the Kobe defense for Manu. ":cry I know he was inefficient the rest of the game, b-b-but, um, he hit a big shot!"

The argument against Parker that Manu fans countered with regarding this series was that if Parker played up to par, the series would've never gone 7. Guess what? Manu played well, well under par in 2 close losses (22% fuckin' shooting). So that exact same argument can be applied to him. But he probably dove for a loose ball or something and all was forgiven because "dat heart."

And about those stats in wins:

Parker 21.5ppg, 47%, 4.5apg.

All-star level stats by any measure.

Think before you Philo.i'm not speaking for what other people said. i just lol'd at your 2 game sample size to show :cry how bad manu was :cry

and even in your stupid cherry picking, its a nice bonus that he hit a would be game winner in one of them

[midnightpulp]

i'm not speaking for what other people said. i just lol'd at your 2 game sample size to show :cry how bad manu was :cry

2 game sample size? :lol

You realize losing 2 games in a playoff series is a huge deal, right? Reminder: The Spurs lost 3 games in that series. Manu was far below his standards (moreso than Parker) in two of those games. Yet it was ":cry All Porker's fault it went to 7 :cry."

Again, think before you Philo.

[spurraider21]

2 game sample size? :lol

You realize losing 2 games in a playoff series is a huge deal, right? Reminder: The Spurs lost 3 games in that series. Manu was far below his standards (moreso than Parker) in two of those games. Yet it was ":cry All Porker's fault it went to 7 :cry."

Again, think before you Philo.you keep saying this. it's not a position i've taken. and you can keep saying philo all you want if you think it enhances your argument.

and yeah, a 2 game sample size is retarded. you can take any 7 game series and point to a player's 2 worst games. i mean just look at how shitty kawhi was in the '14 finals. or duncan against the pistons

[midnightpulp]

Manu in losses:

15ppg on 38% shooting, 4.6apg, 3.6TOs.

Parker in losses:

17.6ppg on 47% shooting, 5apg, 4TOs.

"It was Parker's fault it went to 7."

:lol

[midnightpulp]

you keep saying this. it's not a position i've taken. and you can keep saying philo all you want if you think it enhances your argument.

and yeah, a 2 game sample size is retarded. you can take any 7 game series and point to a player's 2 worst games. i mean just look at how shitty kawhi was in the '14 finals. or duncan against the pistons

Then why are you arguing?

[spurraider21]

Then why are you arguing?


i'm not speaking for what other people said. i just lol'd at your 2 game sample size to show :cry how bad manu was :cry

and even in your stupid cherry picking, its a nice bonus that he hit a would be game winner in one of them

[midnightpulp]

Why are you comparing Manu's role and Tony's role in that team? Up to that season, it was Parker's team. HOTS. He had a favorable matchup in that series... he didn't even close out those 'close' games...

Why do you gloss over any of those arguments?

Look, that's not hating on Tony. Yes, much more was expected of him than Manu, and yes Manu and Tiago did deliver much more than anybody else that series.

Just like Tony was a whole lot better than Manu against Portland, in the following series. There's no shame in that, there's no hating on Manu for saying it, tbh...

He doubled up Calderon in PPG and shot a better raw percentage than him. What more do you want? :lol

You're also acting like team defenses don't exist.

[ElNono]

:lol so 37 year old Manu playing limited mins more or less matches "MVP" Parker in losses and that's not a problem?

You just said 2 bad games is huge on a series after saying Tony, who had a much bigger role AND played more mins, had 3 bad games? Am I missing something? :lol

Would you at least agree Tony had a much bigger role on that team and a favorable matchup to boot?

[spurraider21]

Why are you comparing Manu's role and Tony's role in that team? Up to that season, it was Parker's team. HOTS. He had a favorable matchup in that series... he didn't even close out those 'close' games...

Why do you gloss over any of those arguments?

Look, that's not hating on Tony. Yes, much more was expected of him than Manu, and yes Manu and Tiago did deliver much more than anybody else that series.

Just like Tony was a whole lot better than Manu against Portland, in the following series. There's no shame in that, there's no hating on Manu for saying it, tbh...manu played against portland? had no idea tbh

[midnightpulp]

Follow the argument. The MAIN argument from Manu fanboys was that Parker was the primary culprit for the series going 7, acting like Manu was out there dropping an efficient 20ppg while Parker was killing the team. Manu was the PRIMARY culprit in 2 of those 3 losses. I don't give a shit what his role, age, etc was. He shot 22% in those losses. That's team killing no matter how many loose balls he dives for and selective memory Kobe shots he hits.

[ElNono]

He doubled up Calderon in PPG and shot a better raw percentage than him. What more do you want? :lol

You're also acting like team defenses don't exist.

I wanted him to actually abuse Calderon, and you just said yourself he shat the bed in 3 of the first 6 games... why is it an outrage to point that out?

If Kawhi shits the bed in 3 game against the Grizzlies right now, and can't drop 20 ppg on Chandler Parsons, you'll be rightly outraged and pointing fingers. That's all I'm saying.

[spurraider21]

Follow the argument. The MAIN argument from Manu fanboys was that Parker was the primary culprit for the series going 7, acting like Manu was out there dropping an efficient 20ppg while Parker was killing the team. Manu was the PRIMARY culprit in 2 of those 3 losses. I don't give a shit what his role, age, etc was. He shot 22% in those losses. That's team killing no matter how many loose balls he dives for and selective memory Kobe shots he hits.


i'm not speaking for what other people said. i just lol'd at your 2 game sample size to show :cry how bad manu was :cry

and even in your stupid cherry picking, its a nice bonus that he hit a would be game winner in one of them

[ElNono]

Follow the argument. The MAIN argument from Manu fanboys was that Parker was the primary culprit for the series going 7, acting like Manu was out there dropping an efficient 20ppg while Parker was killing the team. Manu was the PRIMARY culprit in 2 of those 3 losses. I don't give a shit what his role, age, etc was. He shot 22% in those losses. That's team killing no matter how many loose balls he dives for and selective memory Kobe shots he hits.

No, no, no... Manu was actually the reason you even had a chance in one of those 3 losses. (and Tony was watching from the bench). So don't tell me it's 'Manu fanboys' when Pop glued his ass to the bench in the clutch. Something was going on.

[midnightpulp]

:lol so 37 year old Manu playing limited mins more or less matches "MVP" Parker in losses and that's not a problem?

You just said 2 bad games is huge on a series after saying Tony, who had a much bigger role AND played more mins, had 3 bad games? Am I missing something? :lol

Would you at least agree Tony had a much bigger role on that team and a favorable matchup to boot?

Manu averaged 28 minutes. Not limited by any means.

Tony's games were "less bad" than Manu's bad games.

See here:

Manu in losses:

15ppg on 38% shooting, 4.6apg, 3.6TOs.

Parker in losses:

17.6ppg on 47% shooting, 5apg, 4TOs.

"It was Parker's fault it went to 7."

And the only reason Manu's stats look "okay" because he had a 9-12 27 point effort in a game the Spurs lost by 21 and were at one point down 30. Again, the close losses in that series, Manu averaged a big 9ppg on 22% shooting. But yeah, we'll gloss over it because he's old or something.

[ElNono]

Glossing over roles, age, etc is just like cherry-picking too... completely dishonest. Nobody was asking TD to be 2003 TD in that series either. It's unrealistic. Expectations are what they are, and are based on a player's capacity at the time.

And for the 10th time, that's not hating. Everybody expects Kawhi to be 'the man' right now. That's due to his age, role, talent, etc. There's nothing unrealistic about that, despite whether you give a shit about that or not.

[ElNono]

Manu averaged 28 minutes. Not limited by any means.

Manu played 27.5, and Tony 33. Manu had an ORtg 112 and a DRtg of 106 (only TD and Splitter were better).

He had better AST%, STL% (by a wide margin), TRB% than Tony when Tony was supposed to be the better player by a mile.

So if we want to cherry pick stats, we can do this all night. Numbers actually back me up, not you. But it's stupid to play this game. I can go back and bump the threads from back then. It's all there. There's no 'rewriting' anything. I didn't even made those posts, and it's not "Manu fans"...

[midnightpulp]

No, no, no... Manu was actually the reason you even had a chance in one of those 3 losses. (and Tony was watching from the bench). So don't tell me it's 'Manu fanboys' when Pop glued his ass to the bench in the clutch. Something was going on.

This is the Kobe defense. A basketball game just isn't the 4th quarter. What you do in previous quarters decides the game just as much as what you do late. Manu was an inefficient 12 points on 14 shots. Tony had 19 points on 18 shots. It probably wasn't fair to label him the main culprit, since D-League was 1-5 in a one point loss, but point is, he wasn't any more or less worse than Parker that game (he made up for his inefficiency with defense, but end of the day, basketball is about putting the ball in the hoop).

[ElNono]

This is the Kobe defense. A basketball game just isn't the 4th quarter. What you do in previous quarters decides the game just as much as what you do late. Manu was an inefficient 12 points on 14 shots. Tony had 19 points on 18 shots. It probably wasn't fair to label him the main culprit, since D-League was 1-5 in a one point loss, but point is, he wasn't any more or less worse than Parker that game (he made up for his inefficiency with defense, but end of the day, basketball is about putting the ball in the hoop).

This is not the Kobe defense. If Kawhi is glued to the bench to close a game this season, it's not the Kobe defense. Something is up. Either he's not playing well or he's hurt. You can pick one or the other.

Your best player is not out there to close the game, then something is going on. That's why I've been saying that somebody can bring up the injury card, because otherwise, we both know what's up.

[midnightpulp]

Glossing over roles, age, etc is just like cherry-picking too... completely dishonest. Nobody was asking TD to be 2003 TD in that series either. It's unrealistic. Expectations are what they are, and are based on a player's capacity at the time.

And for the 10th time, that's not hating. Everybody expects Kawhi to be 'the man' right now. That's due to his age, role, talent, etc. There's nothing unrealistic about that, despite whether you give a shit about that or not.

No. But think Manu could've been better than 9ppg on 22% shooting in those two 1 and 2 point losses.

:lol But he that one shot that one time.

The Kobe Defense.

[ElNono]

No. But think Manu could've been better than 9ppg on 22% shooting in those two 1 and 2 point losses.

:lol But he that one shot that one time.

The Kobe Defense.

You keep glossing over he was great on the wins, not in game 7 (he was on that one too), all the other ones. We don't even get to game 7 otherwise. Heck, he was WAY better than what you would expect from your old 6th man...

Like I said, we can play the cherry picked numbers all night, you're on the losing side of that argument.

[ElNono]

I wanted him to actually abuse Calderon, and you just said yourself he shat the bed in 3 of the first 6 games... why is it an outrage to point that out?

If Kawhi shits the bed in 3 game against the Grizzlies right now, and can't drop 20 ppg on Chandler Parsons, you'll be rightly outraged and pointing fingers. That's all I'm saying.

Can we agree on this, at least? I know you've hit on Kawhi before due to this...

[midnightpulp]

Manu played 27.5, and Tony 33. Manu had an ORtg 112 and a DRtg of 106 (only TD and Splitter were better).

He had better AST%, STL% (by a wide margin), TRB% than Tony when Tony was supposed to be the better player by a mile.

So if we want to cherry pick stats, we can do this all night. Numbers actually back me up, not you. But it's stupid to play this game. I can go back and bump the threads from back then. It's all there. There's no 'rewriting' anything. I didn't even made those posts, and it's not "Manu fans"...

:lmao Using those for a 7 game series. You realize they're extrapolative stats, right? If Calderon, who would be like 5th down the line in the pecking order on that team, scores 4 points on 2 offensive possessions against Parker, Tony will have a 200 defensive rating. Parker's usage was almost twice as high.

And no argument Manu is a better playmaker and defender. I'm countering your idea that it was Parker's fault the series went 7, when Manu was just as, if not more, below par to his standards (even per his role and age) vis a vis Parker's.

[midnightpulp]

You keep glossing over he was great on the wins, not in game 7 (he was on that one too), all the other ones. We don't even get to game 7 otherwise. Heck, he was WAY better than what you would expect from your old 6th man...

Like I said, we can play the cherry picked numbers all night, you're on the losing side of that argument.

We're not arguing about the games won. Again, your claim Parker was the reason it went 7.

And the numbers do not back that up.

[ElNono]

:lmao Using those for a 7 game series. You realize they're extrapolative stats, right? If Calderon, who would be like 5th down the line in the pecking order on that team, scores 4 points on 2 offensive possessions against Parker, Tony will have a 200 defensive rating. Parker's usage was almost twice as high.

And no argument Manu is a better playmaker and defender. I'm countering your idea that it was Parker's fault the series went 7, when Manu was just as, if not more, below par to his standards (even per his role and age) vis a vis Parker's.

:lmao you bring up a 2 game sample size, tell all of us how 2 games in a 7 game series is 'huge' but a 7 game sample size is not representative?

Talk about the Kobe defense. Pick a lane, mid... or at least if you're going to cherry pick stats and defend them, try to be a bit consistent, tbh... :lol

And what's that about twice the usage????? Are we looking at the same numbers? Tony had a 31.8 USG% for the series, Manu 30.1... how's that twice as high? If you don't understand stats, don't use them...

Lastly, your point about Manu being 'below par' is cherry picked on the losses. One of which he actually had the gamewinner, despite the fact that at that point Manu was old and had a much lesser role (which you said you don't give a shit about, but nonetheless, obviously matters).

[ElNono]

We're not arguing about the games won. Again, your claim Parker was the reason it went 7.

And the numbers do not back that up.

He is the reason we went 7 games, mid. He had a completely favorable matchup and he didn't make them pay until game 7.

Up to this day, I do honestly think he was hurt. It's the only reason he wouldn't be out there in the clutch either. I also said Patty sucked too, and I love Patty, and he did great in series later down the road, but that's the honest truth.

Just like Manu was MIA against Portland, huge against OKC and the Finals...

[midnightpulp]

:lmao you bring up a 2 game sample size, tell all of us how 2 games in a 7 game series is 'huge' but a 7 game sample size is not representative?

Talk about the Kobe defense. Pick a lane, mid... or at least if you're going to cherry pick stats and defend them, try to be a bit consistent, tbh... :lol

And what's that about twice the usage????? Are we looking at the same numbers? Tony had a 31.8 USG% for the series, Manu 30.1... how's that twice as high? If you don't understand stats, don't use them...

Lastly, your point about Manu being 'below par' is cherry picked on the losses. One of which he actually had the gamewinner, despite the fact that at that point Manu was old and had a much lesser role (which you said you don't give a shit about, but nonetheless, obviously matters).

I'm talking about relative to Calderon's. You don't understand that a limited usage player has greater odds of posting a nice OffRtg/DefRtg metric, since it's extrapolative.

And there is no "inconsistency." You're invoking a stat that takes a large sample size to iron out.

Also, I'm not even criticizing Manu. If you're bad in 2 games, you can redeem yourself in other games. And he did so in a key game 4 road win and a swing game 5. I'm arguing against this idea Manu carried us (not true) while Parker was floundering and killing the team in losses.

[apalisoc_9]

So underwheling in a game that the team clearly wanted to win.

In fairness, he didnt get that many looks.

[ElNono]

I'm talking about relative to Calderon's. You don't understand that a limited usage player has greater odds of posting a nice OffRtg/DefRtg metric, since it's extrapolative.

And there is no "inconsistency." You're invoking a stat that takes a large sample size to iron out.

Also, I'm not even criticizing Manu. If you're bad in 2 games, you can redeem yourself in other games. And he did so in a key game 4 road win and a swing game 5. I'm arguing against this idea Manu carried us (not true) while Parker was floundering and killing the team in losses.

I'm not even hating on Tony either. I'm just pointing out that he had a completely favorable matchup and he couldn't exploit it until Game 7.

It's not even you, mid. I heard somebody else bring up not long about "but Game 7!" that series, but Tony was hard to watch that series. Pop put him on Calderon and also on Devin Harris, and they were both killing us. I'm not making stuff up. Spursraider didn't make shit up, the posts at the time were 'thank god Dirk can't defend the P&R for shit', which is what we killed them with between Manu and Tiago. That was our weapon that series. It should've have been, but it was.

I also didn't say Tony was the sole reason either. I said 'largely'. Patty sucked balls that series. Boris, outside a super clutch shot, was also shit, and he had Dejuan Blair guarding him. The reality is that there's no game 7 without Manu and Tiago in that series (and TD in game 1), that's the actual truth, no fanboi BS. Was Tony great in Game 7? Absolutely. Was that what was kinda expected for the series, also true.

I still think he was hurt.

[midnightpulp]

He is the reason we went 7 games, mid. He had a completely favorable matchup and he didn't make them pay until game 7.

Up to this day, I do honestly think he was hurt. It's the only reason he wouldn't be out there in the clutch either. I also said Patty sucked too, and I love Patty, and he did great in series later down the road, but that's the honest truth.

Just like Manu was MIA against Portland, huge against OKC and the Finals...

You act like Calderon is some bitch off the street. He was about a 10ppg career scorer on 47% shooting and 40% shooting from 3. Chris Paul only averages about 17 per against him and his teams. The greatest scoring PG we've ever seen (Westbrook) only averages 23 per against him. Not sure what more you wanted out of a 31 year old Parker against a Rick Carlisle coached team?

[ElNono]

You act like Calderon is some bitch off the street. He was about a 10ppg career scorer on 47% shooting and 40% shooting from 3. Chris Paul only averages about 17 per against him and his teams. The greatest scoring PG we've ever seen (Westbrook) only averages 23 per against him. Not sure what more you wanted out of a 31 year old Parker against a Rick Carlisle coached team?

Now we're getting somewhere. Carlisle is good, we can agree on that. They were an #8 seed though, not magically. And Calderon is trash, sorry. Heck Rubio is all hype too.

[midnightpulp]

Now we're getting somewhere. Carlisle is good, we can agree on that. They were an #8 seed though, not magically. And Calderon is trash, sorry. Heck Rubio is all hype too.

He's not trash. He's an average NBA PG (in his prime) with a good 3 point shot. Tony doubled him in PPG. Trash is Marcelo Huertas. Not sure what more you want.

[ElNono]

He's not trash. He's an average NBA PG (in his prime) with a good 3 point shot. Tony doubled him in PPG. Trash is Marcelo Huertas. Not sure what more you want.

Tony was our best player, against an 'average PG'... that's a favorable matchup, right? Coming out of the 2013 Finals, you take Calderon or Parker? I mean, I take Tony hands down. That's why I'm saying, he had to be hurt.

[gambit1990]

mid getting destroyed.

[ElNono]

mid getting destroyed.

don't start this shit... mid and I go way back, tbh... he knows

[gambit1990]

don't start this shit... mid and I go way back, tbh... he knows
what, way back he was telling you that parker would be important this year? :lol

[ElNono]

Way back when we were trolling Lakerfan together, tbh...

I can troll about Tony, but this isn't about Manu fanboi, etc...

And you need a new schtick gambit... you're getting to Avante levels without the pedo angle, IMO... :lol

[gambit1990]

And you need a new schtick gambit... you're getting to Avante levels without the pedo angle, IMO... :lol
parker is the weakest link.

i appreciate what he's done for the franchise. i wish him the best success with an eastern conference team.

[gambit1990]

and it's not even schtick.

[midnightpulp]

Tony was our best player, against an 'average PG'... that's a favorable matchup, right? Coming out of the 2013 Finals, you take Calderon or Parker? I mean, I take Tony hands down. That's why I'm saying, he had to be hurt.

He doubled him up in PPG. Other elite PGs don't average much more against him. What more do you want?

[midnightpulp]

parker is the weakest link.

i appreciate what he's done for the franchise. i wish him the best success with an eastern conference team.

I told your retarded ass that I'd be in favor of Murray/Forbes (fuck your boy Patty, too. Garbage). But guess what? Ain't happening. So stop whining about roster decisions you have zero control over and just live with it. Parker/Patty it is.

[gambit1990]

So stop whining about roster decisions you have zero control over and just live with it. Parker/Patty it is.
:madrun:madrun:madrun:cry:cry:cry

[midnightpulp]

:madrun:madrun:madrun:cry:cry:cry

Still whining, I see.

[gambit1990]

Still whining, I see.
nope. you're just too stupid to interpret what're reading.

[midnightpulp]

nope. you're just too stupid to interpret what're reading.

No. You're whining.

I don't think you do anything else on here but whine about Parker.

[apalisoc_9]

Calderon was getting bounced by teams in 14. He was far from an average PG. :lol

[gambit1990]

No. You're whining.

I don't think you do anything else on here but whine about Parker.

Once again, like a poker player committed to a pot, we're priced in on him and just have to hope he holds up like a pair of Aces facing a draw heavy board.

[midnightpulp]

Calderon was getting bounced by teams in 14. He was far from an average PG. :lol

He's an average PG by every metric known to man.

[midnightpulp]

*whining*

Yeah dipshit. I'm a team fan. I root for players to do well. Especially when there's no chance of a rotation change.

Oh, the aces thing. Does your tiny brain understand what draw heavy means?

[apalisoc_9]

He's an average PG by every metric known to man.

Metrics are stupid sometimes. He was average because what of all the other shitty bench and third pgs. :lol

Calderon wasbthe worst starting pg in the playoffs.

[midnightpulp]

Metrics are stupid sometimes. He was average because what of all the other shitty bench and third pgs. :lol

Calderon wasbthe worst starting pg in the playoffs.

I'd actually kill for this production from one our PGs.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/2cranoy.jpg

Trash is the main PG rotation on the Spurs, or Marcelo Huertas. Calderon has always been serviceable.

[ElNono]

He doubled him up in PPG. Other elite PGs don't average much more against him. What more do you want?

Meh, if Kawhi 'doubles up' Matt Barnes in PPG, how do you feel about it? Either Matt Barnes turned 'elite' or Kawhi crapped the bed, tbh...

[SAGirl]

This is all old history TBH.
the league is about what have you done for me lately.
He's not adding much to the team right now, unfortunately others aren't either. It sucks.

I suppose one has to hope the team is just chilling and not with a sense of urgency and what we are seeing is not representative of the real potential of this team.

Just end of the season rest schticks and doldrums... hopefully.

[midnightpulp]

Meh, if Kawhi 'doubles up' Matt Barnes in PPG, how do you feel about it? Either Matt Barnes turned 'elite' or Kawhi crapped the bed, tbh...

Calderon is/was a better scorer than Matt Barnes. All Kawhi has to do to double up Barnes is score like 15. Tony has to score 20, which has always been Tony's scoring range (18-21ish ppg). Kawhi also wasn't the reason the Spurs lost (he's not totally blameless). Parker had an all-time historically bad series.

[ElNono]

Calderon is/was a better scorer than Matt Barnes. All Kawhi has to do to double up Barnes is score like 15. Tony has to score 20, which has always been Tony's scoring range (18-21ish ppg). Kawhi also wasn't the reason the Spurs lost (he's not totally blameless). Parker had an all-time historically bad series.

Come on mid... we're talking an average PG vs an All Star... you said it yourself. You can tell me it was an aberration, but you can't tell me it didn't happen.

It was the beginning of the end of the Parker's Spurs. And there's nothing wrong with that, tbh

[midnightpulp]

Come on mid... we're talking an average PG vs an All Star... you said it yourself. You can tell me it was an aberration, but you can't tell me it didn't happen.

It was the beginning of the end of the Parker's Spurs. And there's nothing wrong with that, tbh

Again, I don't know what more you want?

Tony's only had 3 playoff series where he's "gone off." 2007 against Gibson, 2009 against Dallas, and 2013 against Memphis. He's never been a dominating volume scoring guard. Efficient, yes. But Damian Lillard he ain't.

[diego]

sorry for the delay in replying to this because I didnt have access to a pc, but i couldnt let this slide.




I actually started out by posting the series stats, then Manu fans came in here and started referencing individual games and moments. "Well, if Manu didn't do this and that in this one and that other game, Spurs would've lost the series. He carried us!" And :lol at using the Kobe defense for Manu. ":cry I know he was inefficient the rest of the game, b-b-but, um, he hit a big shot!"

The argument against Parker that Manu fans countered with regarding this series was that if Parker played up to par, the series would've never gone 7. Guess what? Manu played well, well under par in 2 close losses (22% fuckin' shooting). So that exact same argument can be applied to him. But he probably dove for a loose ball or something and all was forgiven because "dat heart."

And about those stats in wins:
.

no dude you didnt do that. you posted the series stats, then when people brought up calderon you posted tony and calderons line game for game, except midway through you started deflecting to manu and not posting calderons line. then you started to cherry pick with parkers stats in wins, manus in losses, "swing games", putting tonys single game plus minus for one game, then chastising another poster who used single game plus minus to argue back (see posts 39 then 43). go back to the beginning, real basic:


Rk Player Age MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS FG% 3P% FT%
1 Tony Parker 31 231 58 123 3 9 20 27 1 17 18 33 3 1 21 139 .472 .333 .741
2 Manu Ginobili 36 192 36 80 14 37 38 47 3 23 26 32 16 1 22 124 .450 .378 .809

Tony played 39 more minutes, took 43 more shots (over 50% increase from manu's shot attempts), and produced 15 more points. He had one more assist, and one less turnover. he had 13 less steals, 8 less rebounds, and the same number of blocks. Are you really going to continue arguing that tony had an all star level series and that the spurs went 7 because manu wasnt up to par?

Ill even argue game 7.
Tony had 32 points, 4 reb 4 ast, 0 stl 0 blk 3 TO on 19 shots.
Manu had 20 points, 3 reb, 5 ast, 6 stl, 0 blk, 3 TO on 7 shots.

Who had the better game, 12 extra points + 1 rebound on 11 more shots, or an ungodly 2.85 points per shot for 20 points, +1 assist, +6 steals .

I'd rather not acknowledge a complete idiot like TGY, but:

Parker gets held to a higher standard than Manure. Parker has the superior numbers all time (and it's not close)


Rk Player Age MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS FG% 3P% FT%
1 Tony Parker 31 231 58 123 3 9 20 27 1 17 18 33 3 1 21 139 .472 .333 .741
2 Manu Ginobili 36 192 36 80 14 37 38 47 3 23 26 32 16 1 22 124 .450 .378 .809


look at those two lines again, and tell me what standard parker is held to where he can shoot way over anyone else on the team, contribute less every where else outside of assists, do no better of a job at it than the guy you call turnobili, and still say parker has superior numbers that arent close?? In my post that set you off, i said parkers great strengths are efficient scoring and taking care of the ball, and that the critique of him is that he doesnt contribue outside of those areas; this was a bad series for him because he wasnt efficient scoring the ball AND he had uncharacteristically bad ast/TO ratio. Tony's ast/to ratio for the 2014 playoff run is higher, as is his career ast/to ratio.

apparently for some parker fans, a good series for him is an inefficient version of 36 year old manu ginobili with less defense and rebounding (and floor spacing and freethrows). i think much higher of him, for whatever reason this was not a good series for him.

[diego]

damn it, couldnt figure out the formatting for the tables. im getting old, and too lazy to keep fiddling with. mid has a nice clean table posted on page 2

[dabom]

Tiago was the MVP of that series. Shut down Dirk. Manu and Tim get 2a 2a honors. Both Badass that series. Rick Carlisle was ahead of his time and knew he had to shut down a young kawhi. He basically game planned for kawhi as the number one priority. He gets 4. Everyone else was meh. That's really how it happened. I can't make this Shit up. :lol

[GSH]

Tony played 39 more minutes, took 43 more shots (over 50% increase from manu's shot attempts), and produced 15 more points. He had one more assist, and one less turnover. he had 13 less steals, 8 less rebounds, and the same number of blocks. Are you really going to continue arguing that tony had an all star level series and that the spurs went 7 because manu wasnt up to par?

All the rest of that is just some shit to argue about. Ultimately, your PG has to be judged by AST's, even if he's a "scoring PG". Hell, in the '14 Championship series, Boris Diaw led the team in AST's. Manu has always been a better playmaker than Tony, and arguably a better PG.

Ultimately, the only real knock on Manu is that he played high-variance ball, too much and too often. That's great when the Spurs are down by a couple, and need a miracle. He either creates one, or he doesn't. But when the Spurs are up by a few, and they need someone steady, Manu still plays high-variance ball, and he loses some that could be won.

I just said it in another thread, but Forbes is a damn deer in the headlights. In an important game, I'd take my chances on geriatric Manu over him every time. Every time. The idea of a FreeForbes thread just cracks me up. I don't know if he'll ever be ready, but holy shit he isn't ready for playoff basketball this year.