One of the few with a GOAT claim ... Kareem turns 70 Happy b-day Cap!

[Killakobe81]

Happy b-day to an all-time great no doubt top 5 arguably the GOAT especially when you factor HS/College/Pro

This nerd makes his case


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgwxLCBvfU

[Clipper Nation]

LeGOAT is the only player with a GOAT claim, but Kareem was still way better than DK at least.

[LkrFan]

LeGOAT is the only player with a GOAT claim, but Kareem was still way better than DK at least.

LeHype > KAJ? Wow! :lol

[LkrFan]

Happy b-day to an all-time great no doubt top 5 arguably the GOAT especially when you factor HS/College/Pro

This nerd makes his case


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgwxLCBvfU

Can you imagine Cap in today's NBA?

[Chris]

Is that his real name?

[ambchang]

LeGOAT is the only player with a GOAT claim, but Kareem was still way better than DK at least.

I know you are trolling and this is your shtick, but come on man, there are really three players who can realistically claim the GOAT title, each with fore and against arguments.

DK: Greatest individual scorer to ever play the game, dominant on offense and defense, will to win was legendary, indisputably the best player on 6 championship teams, greatest prime along with Kareem, Lebron, Shaq and Bir, and his prime lasted a very long time.. However, he had to have a very specific type of team to win, and no doubt the league changed the rules to make it easier for him on the perimeter. Some very questionable reffing, especially late in his career.

KAJ: Dominant offensively (all time leader), and very good on defense, amazing longevity, one of the best primes. While his peak prime wasn't as long as Jordan, he was an NBA MVP candidate for way more than a decade. However, his defense and rebounding late in his career was average at best, got bullied bad by Malone consistently (didn't dominate all of his competition in his prime), missed playoffs twice in his prime.

Lebron: Dominant not just through scoring, but with his vision, can be one of the best defensively players, went to finals 7 straight years (but in the historically weak East), rare combination of size, vision and skill, one of greatest championship runs of all time (last year). However, his title teams have always been loaded, played in an era where rules basically caters to perimeter players, can coast, questions exists about his heart (2011 will forever be a black mark on his resume).

You can argue for Bird (prime way too short), Duncan (absolute prime not as high as the others, but just an amazing ability to lead teams to success), Magic (Defense, facilitator more than dominant player), Wilt (questionable competition, choker), and Russell (loaded teams, role player on steroids), but overall those three stands out.

If I want to vote for greatest individual player of all time, I'd go Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, Magic, Russell, but if I were to build a team from nothing, I would seriously pick Duncan, he is the easiest to build around.

[Killakobe81]

I know you are trolling and this is your shtick, but come on man, there are really three players who can realistically claim the GOAT title, each with fore and against arguments.

DK: Greatest individual scorer to ever play the game, dominant on offense and defense, will to win was legendary, indisputably the best player on 6 championship teams, greatest prime along with Kareem, Lebron, Shaq and Bir, and his prime lasted a very long time.. However, he had to have a very specific type of team to win, and no doubt the league changed the rules to make it easier for him on the perimeter. Some very questionable reffing, especially late in his career.

KAJ: Dominant offensively (all time leader), and very good on defense, amazing longevity, one of the best primes. While his peak prime wasn't as long as Jordan, he was an NBA MVP candidate for way more than a decade. However, his defense and rebounding late in his career was average at best, got bullied bad by Malone consistently (didn't dominate all of his competition in his prime), missed playoffs twice in his prime.

Lebron: Dominant not just through scoring, but with his vision, can be one of the best defensively players, went to finals 7 straight years (but in the historically weak East), rare combination of size, vision and skill, one of greatest championship runs of all time (last year). However, his title teams have always been loaded, played in an era where rules basically caters to perimeter players, can coast, questions exists about his heart (2011 will forever be a black mark on his resume).

You can argue for Bird (prime way too short), Duncan (absolute prime not as high as the others, but just an amazing ability to lead teams to success), Magic (Defense, facilitator more than dominant player), Wilt (questionable competition, choker), and Russell (loaded teams, role player on steroids), but overall those three stands out.

If I want to vote for greatest individual player of all time, I'd go Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, Magic, Russell, but if I were to build a team from nothing, I would seriously pick Duncan, he is the easiest to build around.

Had me on your side until that last line ...
I am taking Kareem over Duncan ...
They are similar though by all accounts Duncan appears to be the better lockeroom leader.
But Kareem in his prime was a much better athlete with a similar elite skillset.
A Duncan type with more athleticism and a unstoppable mid post hook shot?!

Kareem and its closer than some would think but clearly Kareem

[Chris]

I know you are trolling and this is your shtick, but come on man, there are really three players who can realistically claim the GOAT title, each with fore and against arguments.

DK: Greatest individual scorer to ever play the game, dominant on offense and defense, will to win was legendary, indisputably the best player on 6 championship teams, greatest prime along with Kareem, Lebron, Shaq and Bir, and his prime lasted a very long time.. However, he had to have a very specific type of team to win, and no doubt the league changed the rules to make it easier for him on the perimeter. Some very questionable reffing, especially late in his career.

KAJ: Dominant offensively (all time leader), and very good on defense, amazing longevity, one of the best primes. While his peak prime wasn't as long as Jordan, he was an NBA MVP candidate for way more than a decade. However, his defense and rebounding late in his career was average at best, got bullied bad by Malone consistently (didn't dominate all of his competition in his prime), missed playoffs twice in his prime.

Lebron: Dominant not just through scoring, but with his vision, can be one of the best defensively players, went to finals 7 straight years (but in the historically weak East), rare combination of size, vision and skill, one of greatest championship runs of all time (last year). However, his title teams have always been loaded, played in an era where rules basically caters to perimeter players, can coast, questions exists about his heart (2011 will forever be a black mark on his resume).

You can argue for Bird (prime way too short), Duncan (absolute prime not as high as the others, but just an amazing ability to lead teams to success), Magic (Defense, facilitator more than dominant player), Wilt (questionable competition, choker), and Russell (loaded teams, role player on steroids), but overall those three stands out.

If I want to vote for greatest individual player of all time, I'd go Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, Magic, Russell, but if I were to build a team from nothing, I would seriously pick Duncan, he is the easiest to build around.

Amb

[ambchang]

Had me on your side until that last line ...
I am taking Kareem over Duncan ...
They are similar though by all accounts Duncan appears to be the better lockeroom leader.
But Kareem in his prime was a much better athlete with a similar elite skillset.

Duncan was the better defender, and better at little things like screens and stuff. Two, can't see a young Kareem taking a tongue lashing and play on. Three, Kareem will only play for LA or NY, all fine and good if I am in those cities, but if I am one of the other 28, then forget it.

[Clipper Nation]

I'd take Timmy over Cap. Nobody could ever punk Duncan like Wilt and Thurmond used to do to Kareem.

[Killakobe81]

I'd take Timmy over Cap. Nobody could ever punk Duncan like Wilt and Thurmond used to do to Kareem.

You first post in this thread automatically disqualifies this one ...

Trollin or not ...

[Spurtacular]

Kareem was a specialist; not GOAT.

[Killakobe81]

Outside this forum I have not heard one credible argument for Duncan as GOAT or over Kareem ...

I have heard both for Kareem on places outside of LG ...

[DMC]

Outside this forum I have not heard one credible argument for Duncan as GOAT or over Kareem ...

I have heard both for Kareem on places outside of LG ...

A credible argument is credible regardless the source.

So what you said makes no sense. No surprise there.

[ambchang]

Outside this forum I have not heard one credible argument for Duncan as GOAT or over Kareem ...

I have heard both for Kareem on places outside of LG ...

It's hard to top Kareem from an accomplishment point of view but from a team building perspective Duncan I s extremely tough to top.

[Killakobe81]

It's hard to top Kareem from an accomplishment point of view but from a team building perspective Duncan I s extremely tough to top.

I dont want to make it sound as I am disrespectful of all Tim has done. He is a great player, GOAT PF, etc.
But even with your easier to build around bullshit...still would take Kareem...

[Mark Celibate]

I know you are trolling and this is your shtick, but come on man, there are really three players who can realistically claim the GOAT title, each with fore and against arguments.

DK: Greatest individual scorer to ever play the game, dominant on offense and defense, will to win was legendary, indisputably the best player on 6 championship teams, greatest prime along with Kareem, Lebron, Shaq and Bir, and his prime lasted a very long time.. However, he had to have a very specific type of team to win, and no doubt the league changed the rules to make it easier for him on the perimeter. Some very questionable reffing, especially late in his career.

KAJ: Dominant offensively (all time leader), and very good on defense, amazing longevity, one of the best primes. While his peak prime wasn't as long as Jordan, he was an NBA MVP candidate for way more than a decade. However, his defense and rebounding late in his career was average at best, got bullied bad by Malone consistently (didn't dominate all of his competition in his prime), missed playoffs twice in his prime.

Lebron: Dominant not just through scoring, but with his vision, can be one of the best defensively players, went to finals 7 straight years (but in the historically weak East), rare combination of size, vision and skill, one of greatest championship runs of all time (last year). However, his title teams have always been loaded, played in an era where rules basically caters to perimeter players, can coast, questions exists about his heart (2011 will forever be a black mark on his resume).

You can argue for Bird (prime way too short), Duncan (absolute prime not as high as the others, but just an amazing ability to lead teams to success), Magic (Defense, facilitator more than dominant player), Wilt (questionable competition, choker), and Russell (loaded teams, role player on steroids), but overall those three stands out.

If I want to vote for greatest individual player of all time, I'd go Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, Magic, Russell, but if I were to build a team from nothing, I would seriously pick Duncan, he is the easiest to build around.

rofl c'mon amb, don't waste such a well thought out post on CN. Does anybody here really think CN is old enough to have watched KAJ play? :lol

[ambchang]

I dont want to make it sound as I am disrespectful of all Tim has done. He is a great player, GOAT PF, etc.
But even with your easier to build around bullshit...still would take Kareem...

Not sure how that is bullshit. Duncan has proven to be a championship winning centrepiece for 3 very different types of teams (99,03,05/07), as well as a defensive anchor and offensive coordinator of an all time great team (14). Duncan transitioned the Spurs through the most tumultuous era in the NBA, going from a defensive dominant inside centric league to a perimeter ISO friendly league to a free flowing offensive league to a 3 or layup league.

Kareem only won with one of two top 3 of all time on all 6 of his championships, and all those teams are pretty similar. Besides Kareem was a mere role player on the 87-88 teams and he missed two playoffs in his prime in one of the weakest eras in the NBA (granted the playoff qualifier was a lot tougher).

[Killakobe81]

Not sure how that is bullshit. Duncan has proven to be a championship winning centrepiece for 3 very different types of teams (99,03,05/07), as well as a defensive anchor and offensive coordinator of an all time great team (14). Duncan transitioned the Spurs through the most tumultuous era in the NBA, going from a defensive dominant inside centric league to a perimeter ISO friendly league to a free flowing offensive league to a 3 or layup league.

Kareem only won with one of two top 3 of all time on all 6 of his championships, and all those teams are pretty similar. Besides Kareem was a mere role player on the 87-88 teams and he missed two playoffs in his prime in one of the weakest eras in the NBA (granted the playoff qualifier was a lot tougher).

Of course you are not sure ...you are biased.

[140]

Of course you are not sure ...you are biased.
And you're not :lol

[140]

Outside this forum I have not heard one credible argument for Duncan as GOAT or over Kareem ...

I have heard both for Kareem on places outside of LG ...
That's because the Kareem argument is vanilla as fuck and ST is not your run of the mill vanilla ass basketball forum tbh

[Will Hunting]

Can someone explain the purpose of making a happy birthday thread for an athlete on a message board? The fact you know his birthday is a strange enough as it is, but making a thread that he's never going to see takes it too a new level.

[spurraider21]

rofl c'mon amb, don't waste such a well thought out post on CN. Does anybody here really think CN is old enough to have watched KAJ play? :lolbased on his posting it's unlikely he saw jordan on the bulls

[TDMVPDPOY]

u cant stop kareem, but can kareem stop the other player?....why one rule for him and not for the rest

as regards to ambchang sentence about lebron can be one of the best defensive players...chasing guys down from behind to block them, needs more then that to be considered a defensive player

[Killakobe81]

Can someone explain the purpose of making a happy birthday thread for an athlete on a message board? The fact you know his birthday is a strange enough as it is, but making a thread that he's never going to see takes it too a new level.

I dont marked on my phone's calwndar ... i opened up twitter and one of the sports journalists I follow mentioned it. You dont like it? Gtfo my thread ...
The point was he had a GOAT case in case you missed it.

[Killakobe81]

And you're not :lol

Kareem was never my favorite Laker found him brutally effective but dull tbh. Shaq was more fun .. Kareem the greater player. The lists that everyone here enjoyed so much have Kareem 2nd easily over Duncan but those lists only matter on this non vanilla forum when it suits the argument...

[140]

Kareem was never my favorite Laker found him brutally effective but dull tbh. Shaq was more fun .. Kareem the greater player. The lists that everyone here enjoyed so much have Kareem 2nd easily over Duncan but those lists only matter on this non vanilla forum when it suits the argument...
Amb did say KAJ was the best individual player between the 2 though

[ambchang]

Of course you are not sure ...you are biased.

Any points to make? I already said Kareem had a much better career. But if I were to buil a team from scratch and my only goal is to win a championship, regardless of where the franchise is, Duncan is the one. It's much easier finding players of tony and manus caliber than to find players of oscar and magics caliber.

[Sportcamper]

If I want to vote for greatest individual player of all time, I'd go Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, Magic, Russell, but if I were to build a team from nothing, I would seriously pick Duncan, he is the easiest to build around.

Great BB take…IMO Wilt is so underrated…A powerful gentle giant who never fouled out off a game… If Wilt bashed & thumped opponents like Shaq was allowed to he would be regarded as the most dominant player ever…

[apalisoc_9]

Can someone explain the purpose of making a happy birthday thread for an athlete on a message board? The fact you know his birthday is a strange enough as it is, but making a thread that he's never going to see takes it too a new level.

:lol

[Jenks]

I know you are trolling and this is your shtick, but come on man, there are really three players who can realistically claim the GOAT title, each with fore and against arguments.

DK: Greatest individual scorer to ever play the game, dominant on offense and defense, will to win was legendary, indisputably the best player on 6 championship teams, greatest prime along with Kareem, Lebron, Shaq and Bir, and his prime lasted a very long time.. However, he had to have a very specific type of team to win, and no doubt the league changed the rules to make it easier for him on the perimeter. Some very questionable reffing, especially late in his career.

KAJ: Dominant offensively (all time leader), and very good on defense, amazing longevity, one of the best primes. While his peak prime wasn't as long as Jordan, he was an NBA MVP candidate for way more than a decade. However, his defense and rebounding late in his career was average at best, got bullied bad by Malone consistently (didn't dominate all of his competition in his prime), missed playoffs twice in his prime.

Lebron: Dominant not just through scoring, but with his vision, can be one of the best defensively players, went to finals 7 straight years (but in the historically weak East), rare combination of size, vision and skill, one of greatest championship runs of all time (last year). However, his title teams have always been loaded, played in an era where rules basically caters to perimeter players, can coast, questions exists about his heart (2011 will forever be a black mark on his resume).

You can argue for Bird (prime way too short), Duncan (absolute prime not as high as the others, but just an amazing ability to lead teams to success), Magic (Defense, facilitator more than dominant player), Wilt (questionable competition, choker), and Russell (loaded teams, role player on steroids), but overall those three stands out.

If I want to vote for greatest individual player of all time, I'd go Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, Magic, Russell, but if I were to build a team from nothing, I would seriously pick Duncan, he is the easiest to build around. I check in to this place a few times a year and somehow every time the bar gets lowered even further. Yeah here's the 3 greatest players of all time: Jordan, Kareem, and a fucking mercenary who colluded twice to build superteams around himself in the weakest conference in NBA history and is still somehow only 3-4 in the finals. No wonder google started giving me a warning when I try to come here, I think I just got fucking aids.

[ambchang]

I check in to this place a few times a year and somehow every time the bar gets lowered even further. Yeah here's the 3 greatest players of all time: Jordan, Kareem, and a fucking mercenary who colluded twice to build superteams around himself in the weakest conference in NBA history and is still somehow only 3-4 in the finals. No wonder google started giving me a warning when I try to come here, I think I just got fucking aids.

So why is Kareem one of the top 3?

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Is that his real name?

lewis al-sindar.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I check in to this place a few times a year and somehow every time the bar gets lowered even further. Yeah here's the 3 greatest players of all time: Jordan, Kareem, and a fucking mercenary who colluded twice to build superteams around himself in the weakest conference in NBA history and is still somehow only 3-4 in the finals. No wonder google started giving me a warning when I try to come here, I think I just got fucking aids.

So you picked Magic, I presume?

[Mitch]

Better than zero-repeat Duncan, tbh

[cd98]

Much respect to Kareem. But what's up with Magic and Isaiah both having gay sons? AIDS conspiracy? Apparently Isaiah's son was raped.

[snickles]

I think he's the greatest, but my dad says he doest work hard enough on defense. And he says that lots of times, he doesn't even run down court. And that he doesn't really try. Except during the playoffs.

[lefty]

I think he's the greatest, but my dad says he doest work hard enough on defense. And he says that lots of times, he doesn't even run down court. And that he doesn't really try. Except during the playoffs.

Airplane!