Pau as the Release man when Kawhi is Double-Teamed

[BillMc]

Talking about how Pau can be our "Draymond" when the double team comes on Kawhi.

854181532457717760


Pau releases from his screen and gets into the middle of the floor. Kawhi moves the ball to him quickly, setting up a four-on-three. Tony Parker (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21781/tony-parker) and Manu Ginobili (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21775/manu-ginobili) are positioned in the corners, with Aldridge open on the wing. Aldridge and Ginobili are good 3-point shooters at 39 and 41 percent respectively, but Memphis decided they had to force someone besides Leonard to shoot. Parker was just a 33 percent 3-point shooter on the year, and despite hitting shots thus far in the playoffs, you have to give up something when you double.Pause the video at the three second mark. Randolph, Ennis and Andrew Harrison (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/255244/andrew-harrison) are all in the paint, ready for the Gasol drive and conceding the 3-pointer. Pau takes one dribble and fakes the pass to Aldridge to freeze Randolph. He then briefly turns his body back towards the basket and whips a pass to Parker before he bumps into Harrison (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/257560/andrew-harrison). Parker catches and knocks down the corner three. Gasol was close to being whistled for an offensive foul, but Harrison’s heels are in the restricted circle.
Unless the Grizzlies fell asleep, this play was telling. The Grizzlies first priority was Kawhi, followed by Gasol. They were going to live with Parker, Aldridge or Ginobili shooting. Parker was 3 of 5 on the night from long range, but that’s not something the Spurs can bank on every game. Ginobili was 0 of 3 and Aldridge is still hesitant to shoot 3-pointers. Moving forward, the Grizzlies may try to bait these three into shots and double Kawhi more.



It likely won’t matter in this series, but as the playoffs progress, especially when Dedmon and Parker are on the floor, the Spurs should expect teams to throw junk defenses at Leonard, much like the pre-Durant Warriors (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/golden-state-warriors) saw against Steph Curry. Ultimately, the Warriors found an antidote through Draymond Green’s passing to a plethora of shooters.
Gasol can definitely play that pressure release role. He’s a great passer and shot 54 percent from three this year. The question is, if teams double Kawhi, then sell out on Gasol, can Tony Parker and the supporting cast knock down open threes consistently enough to punish the strategy? They’ve made them all year, but the playoffs are a new season, and they’ll need Green and Parker to stay hot, and Mills and Ginobili to shoot better in order to beat Houston or Golden Stat

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/4/18/15340158/nba-playoffs-strategy-kawhi-leonard-double-teams

[KDKSpurs24]

This is exactly what we need! This is how Draymond does all of his work and a main part of why GS is so effective. :toast

[Chinook]

Reminds me of David West against the Heat in 2014 (http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2014/05/19/indy-short-rolls/). This will obviously only work when it's Pau's man that doubles. The Spurs can force that by having Kawhi run PnPs/PnRs with Pau instead of LMA, but likely it would only be one of a few counters the team will need to develop.

[lil'mo]

David west brah

[DPG21920]

The counter is pretty easy: you have Mills & Danny in there. It's all about knocking down shots. Spurs normally do but like the opposite strategy of baiting bad shooters to shoot and tipping your hat if they do, if Guys don't hit it won't force them to stop that.

[cd021]

David Lee can do this too, he had experience during the GSW-LAC 2013 Sterling Series.
CP3 and Blake would hard trap way behind the 3pt line and Lee would serve as the release valve. He could drive and kick to the corners well, IIRC.


He's more mobile when driving when compared to Gasol and I like the idea of Aldridge spotting up in the left corner, possibly as far as the corner 3 and force Draymond to have to choose between protecting the rim against an excellent finisher or leaving an excellent shooting big open outside of the paint.

Spurs have plenty of options. Mills would also be valuable on offensive possessions, he is shooting .455% on corner 3's this season :wow compared with Parker who is hitting .333 percent from the corners

Mills, Manu, Leonard, Lee/ Gasol & LMA on offensive only possessions (after timeouts or stoppages in play)

Manu, Green, Leonard, Lee/ Gasol & LMA for normal crunch time play

(BTW Green is shooting 43% on corner 3's)

[DAF86]

Reminds me of David West against the Heat in 2014 (http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2014/05/19/indy-short-rolls/). This will obviously only work when it's Pau's man that doubles. The Spurs can force that by having Kawhi run PnPs/PnRs with Pau instead of LMA, but likely it would only be one of a few counters the team will need to develop.

Boris Diaw, tbh.

[cd021]

Spurs could also try having whomever Curry is guarding ( Green if the Spurs go with the Manu and Green back court) set the screens to try and force a switch with Curry having to guard Kawhi, or dare GSW to leave Green to open for 3. Green can't drive but the threat of him getting an open look from 3 would likely keep Kerr from trying it.

[cd021]

The counter is pretty easy: you have Mills & Danny in there. It's all about knocking down shots. Spurs normally do but like the opposite strategy of baiting bad shooters to shoot and tipping your hat if they do, if Guys don't hit it won't force them to stop that.

Mills is shooting 45.5% on corner 3's, while Green is at 43% from 3. If Lee or Gasol are also on the floor as ball movers, I could see this being an option for offensive possessions late in games.

[Chinook]

Boris Diaw, tbh.

I mean David West against the Heat in the 2014 ECF. Check the link in my post.

[DAF86]

I mean David West against the Heat in the 2014 ECF. Check the link in my post.

That's a strange choice considering one of our guys did it, and much better, on the finals that same year, tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

Been saying this tbh. Gasol will have to start over Deadman eventually. A Center that's averaging 1 point per game and has no positioning awareness has no business on the floor when Kawhi is doubled

[cd021]

Been saying this tbh. Gasol will have to start over Deadman eventually. A Center that's averaging 1 point per game and has no positioning awareness has no business on the floor when Kawhi is doubled

Bertans or Anderson would be better options to start with Lee or Gasol closing the game. Dedmon probably shouldn't play against GSW. Team D is fine, Offense is really bad

[TheGreatYacht]

Bertans or Anderson would be better options to start with Lee or Gasol closing the game. Dedmon probably shouldn't play against GSW. Team D is fine, Offense is really bad
Bertans tbh. Anderson, like Deadman, will be left open and they won't make GS pay.

I can already picture Kyle passing up an open 3 only to do his slomo crossover that gets him nowhere and he passes out to Danny to do something

[8FOR!3]

Gasol is shooting the 3 ball so well people are biting every time and he has an open ticket to the lane and can always pass if the lane's clogged.

[TheGreatYacht]

Bertans starting against the Dubs actually makes too much sense now that I think about it.... big enough and versatile enough to guard Draymond or switch on KD.

Unfortunately Pop won't adjust until we're down 0-3 with 6:00 remaining just so he can say :pop: "I tried."

[TheDoctor]

The counter is pretty easy: you have Mills & Danny in there. It's all about knocking down shots. Spurs normally do but like the opposite strategy of baiting bad shooters to shoot and tipping your hat if they do, if Guys don't hit it won't force them to stop that.
"Mills... and knocking down shots" :lol

[Chinook]

That's a strange choice considering one of our guys did it, and much better, on the finals that same year, tbh.

Diaw didn't short-roll once in that series. He mostly PnP'd and posted up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxT10XO2Zfg

Duncan on the other hand, did short-roll once at the beginning of the vid (about the 1:00 mark). Regardless, even if Diaw had done what West did, David still did it first and did it in a way that better matches what Gasol did and what the purpose of Gasol's action is. Citing him makes way more sense.

[Chinook]

Bertans tbh. Anderson, like Deadman, will be left open and they won't make GS pay.

I can already picture Kyle passing up an open 3 only to do his slomo crossover that gets him nowhere and he passes out to Danny to do something

Kyle a least has a hope of guarding Draymond and switching. Bertans can do more in terms of spacing the floor, but you can't ignore defense either. Of course, it's up to Kyle to take advantage of his minutes and to actually be aggressive on offense. The good news is that the semis would likely give him a chance to get used to being a PF in the rotation, since he's the obvious counter to the Harden/Ryno PnF that hurt the Spurs so much when they played the Rockets.

[GSH]

The counter is pretty easy: you have Mills & Danny in there. It's all about knocking down shots. Spurs normally do but like the opposite strategy of baiting bad shooters to shoot and tipping your hat if they do, if Guys don't hit it won't force them to stop that.


The strategy is pretty much a no-brainer, IF Danny, Patty, and Tony are knocking down shots. All the passing in the world won't help if those guys are bricking open jumpers. So far, they're shooting well (two of them anyway). But I remember Danny being on a record-setting 3P pace, right up until Game 6 of the Finals. Those guys need 14 more good games.

And, of course, the elephant in the room is that Pau isn't in the game at the start. If/when teams come out blitzing Kawhi from the opening tip, the Spurs are going to find themselves in first quarter holes.

[Edit: For those who haven't noticed - Manu is 0-8 this post-season, and Dedmon has zero FGA's so far. Zero. :wow ]

[DAF86]

Diaw didn't short-roll once in that series. He mostly PnP'd and posted up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxT10XO2Zfg

Duncan on the other hand, did short-roll once at the beginning of the vid (about the 1:00 mark). Regardless, even if Diaw had done what West did, David still did it first and did it in a way that better matches what Gasol did and what the purpose of Gasol's action is. Citing him makes way more sense.

What would be a "short roll" and how is it different from setting a pick on the top of the key, getting the ball after the ball handler gets blitzed and creating from there on a 4 on 3?

I see what Gasol is doing as the same as what Boris did, what West did and what Draymond does for the Warriors, all with their different styles, of course. I don't really see the point in differentiating between a "short roll" and whatever you think Diaw did on the Heat series.

[TD 21]

Not concerned with this. Gasol will more than likely have to start sooner than later anyway and in addition to Lee and him being accomplished release valves/play makers, Parker and Aldridge are solid, if limited (low volume, strictly spot up, mostly corners for the former) three-point shooters. If teams are going to dare them to take wide open spot up ones, that's fine. Anderson/Simmons wouldn't be, except for the fact that they back up Leonard and almost never play alongside him.

[Chinook]

What would be a "short roll" and how is it different from setting a pick, getting the ball after the ball handler gets blitzed and creating from there on a 4 on 3?

Setting a screen and then slipping it diving toward the FT line to be a release outlet for a trap. Again, check the link in my post to see how West did it and see a version of that in the Diaw vid. Diaw did a pick-and-pop, which is a completely different action. And for the most part, he didn't have most of his success doing so. He worked primarily off post-ups (again, check his vid). It's a completely different type of action than any pick play.


I see what Gasol is doing as the same as what Boris did, what West did and what Draymond does for the Warriors, all with their different styles, of course. I don't really see the point in differentiating between a "short roll" and whatever you think Diaw did on the Heat series.

To be clear, you're the one who tried to correct me. I didn't tell you what level of specificity we needed to have. I saw Gasol's short-roll and compared it to what West did (which is what started this action being popular in the first place, really), and you wanted me to use the "better" example of Diaw when it not even the same thing.

Draymond does short-roll, though now that he's more confident in his shot, he pops more. What's also changed is that teams trap Curry a lot more than they did two years ago, so Green can't get as far away as he used to, and Steph doesn't score on his own as much as he used to.

[DAF86]

Setting a screen and then slipping it diving toward the FT line to be a release outlet for a trap. Again, check the link in my post to see how West did it and see a version of that in the Diaw vid. Diaw did a pick-and-pop, which is a completely different action. And for the most part, he didn't have most of his success doing so. He worked primarily off post-ups (again, check his vid). It's a completely different type of action than any pick play.,

Well, imho, Pau is doing more of pick and pops than "short rolls". Pau is getting the ball at the three point line, if nobody closes out on him he's letting it fly, if they do close out he's putting the ball on the floor and either get to the rim or pass it for an open shot.


To be clear, you're the one who tried to correct me. I didn't tell you what level of specificity we needed to have. I saw Gasol's short-roll and compared it to what West did (which is what started this action being popular in the first place, really), and you wanted me to use the "better" example of Diaw when it not even the same thing.

Draymond does short-roll, though now that he's more confident in his shot, he pops more. What's also changed is that teams trap Curry a lot more than they did two years ago, so Green can't get as far away as he used to, and Steph doesn't score on his own as much as he used to.

I wasn't trying to be a smartass, I corrected you 'cause I honestly thought you meant Boris.

[spursistan]

A little bit worried about the Spurs lack of ball movement in the first 2 games..We're only averaging 15 Apg in two blowouts--only 43% ast on FGs made-- a drop off from 60% in regular season..

[Chinook]

Well, imho, Pau is doing more of pick and pops than "short rolls". Pau is getting the ball at the three point line, if nobody closes out on him he's letting it fly, if they do close out he's putting the ball on the floor and either get to the rim or pass it for an open shot.

Pau definitely PnPs. That's not what I was saying. The vid in the OP is on him short-rolling, which is a possible adjustment for teams double Kawhi. Pau popping wouldn't be an adjustment, because a) he already does that and b) that doesn't really create a passing lane, since Gasol doesn't move that far away when he Pops.


I wasn't trying to be a smartass, I corrected you 'cause I honestly thought you meant Boris.

Fair enough. I was saying that Pau's action in the OP vid reminded me of West's action in 2014.

[cd021]

Bertans tbh. Anderson, like Deadman, will be left open and they won't make GS pay.

I can already picture Kyle passing up an open 3 only to do his slomo crossover that gets him nowhere and he passes out to Danny to do something

I'd lean toward Anderson better defender and the Spurs would be able to still rebound well him on the floor. He has to take and knock down his corner 3's at a decent clip but his court vision and passing should also help the offense that Dedmon seems to hurt.

Bertans spacing is an excellent shooter but I wonder if Kerr wouldn't just go small from jump and start Barnes for the first 6 minutes of each half to keep his bench intact while swapping out Zaza.

I would expect their defensive match ups would be:

Parker-Thompson
Green-Curry
Leonard-Barnes
Bertans-Durant
Aldridge-Green

Excellent floor spacing with Durant being forced out far away from the rim, leaving only Draymond to protect the rim from Leonard and ,hopefully, Parker drives.


I am doubtful this would happen but the Spurs could actually have Green set screens for Leonard in hopes of forcing a switch of Curry onto Leonard as opposed to just having LMA setting every screen.

[DPG21920]

Not totally related:

854819689473732609

[hater]

A little bit worried about the Spurs lack of ball movement in the first 2 games..We're only averaging 15 Apg in two blowouts--only 43% ast on FGs made-- a drop off from 60% in regular season..

Memphis D is top in the league tbqh

This is a good test for the ne t stage

[TheDoctor]

Not totally related:

854819689473732609
That the most rugged player in the League will shoot 25+ FTs tomorrow :lol

[Chinook]

Give Pau nobody at all to guard. Seems legit.

[Dex]

Oh, now we need Pau, huh?

After being called old and soft and washed-up all season, having his name dragged through the mud, his defense and his heart and his pedigree questioned...

NOW PAU IS THE GODDAMN SECRET WEAPON!?!?

.......just kidding. :toast

I loved the Gasol pick up when it happened, and I still love it. Especially now that he has accepted the bench role that I thought fit him best.

Glad to see SpursTalk starting to warm up to the big guy. He's no Tim Duncan, but he's a proven scorer who has carried a team to a championship before. His defense isn't great, but I still feel like that is overplayed considering he is still 7-feet tall and can clog the paint just by standing with his arms up. He can also post, pass, shoot the mid-range and is looking like Nowitzki from three. Perhaps most importantly, anybody who has watched him play in the playoffs or for Spain knows that he can turn it on in the big moments.

Believe you me....the Spurs may or may not go all the way. But if they do...Gasol will be a big part of it.

[Dex]

Not totally related:

854819689473732609

Worked in the third quarter...but only for a while.

Spurs will adjust...and Memphis' bench is gonna get fucking toasted.

[YGWHI]

Parker was 3 of 5 on the night from long range, but that’s not something the Spurs can bank on every game. Ginobili was 0 of 3 and Aldridge is still hesitant to shoot 3-pointers...

The question is, if teams double Kawhi, then sell out on Gasol, can Tony Parker and the supporting cast knock down open threes consistently enough to punish the strategy?

If LMA/Kyle/Simms arent taking those shots, Davis should see some minutes...Like Patty-Danny should see more minutes with Kawhi on the floor than Parker-Manu as combo.

[DPG21920]

Guys, when the Spurs are winning, especially now, guys like Bertans are not going to play IMO.

[YGWHI]

Guys, when the Spurs are winning, especially now, guys like Bertans are not going to play IMO.

Agree. Just when the Spurs were 1-3 in the series, they made a desperate move and started Boban...I mean, played Davis.

People said his 3's could have helped in the previous games but in the game 5/6 of the series, it was too late.

[cutewizard]

Oh, now we need Pau, huh?

After being called old and soft and washed-up all season, having his name dragged through the mud, his defense and his heart and his pedigree questioned...

NOW PAU IS THE GODDAMN SECRET WEAPON!?!?

.......just kidding. :toast

I loved the Gasol pick up when it happened, and I still love it. Especially now that he has accepted the bench role that I thought fit him best.

Glad to see SpursTalk starting to warm up to the big guy. He's no Tim Duncan, but he's a proven scorer who has carried a team to a championship before. His defense isn't great, but I still feel like that is overplayed considering he is still 7-feet tall and can clog the paint just by standing with his arms up. He can also post, pass, shoot the mid-range and is looking like Nowitzki from three. Perhaps most importantly, anybody who has watched him play in the playoffs or for Spain knows that he can turn it on in the big moments.

Believe you me....the Spurs may or may not go all the way. But if they do...Gasol will be a big part of it.


----------------------------------------------------------------

Agree.

This is one of the best posts in spurstalk in recent years.

May it be.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RugSclNY4y8

[cutewizard]

Fuck the Grizzlies, show them whos boss................