Official 2017 Offseason Thread

[Robz4000]

Series isn't over (yet) obviously, but might as well get this warmed up.

Poo needs to diaf.
-LMA should be dangled to see what can be had for him, but otherwise keep him.
-Parker needs to be moved to the bench, but still has something.
-Manu needs to be taken out back and shot.
-Green will be fine as long as the Spurs get a new penetrating PG. Not sure you can move him anyway since his D is so important.
-Kawhi needs to work a bit on his handles and handling physical defenders
-Mills, Dedmon, Simmons, and Lee can leave
-Get Bertans and Murray some consistent damn playing time

Everyone's thoughts?

[timtonymanu]

Agree with all that. And before people come in and talk shit, even if Spurs win this series you know Rockets will beat them in 6 so good thread, Robz.

[mexicanjunior]

No need for the opening sentence...this season is over...

[Darius Bieber]

Yeah, off season starts now honestly. This series is done.

Mills will be gone. Kawhi will book it as soon as his contract is up. He should be tired as fuck with the shit team he has around him. Hopefully he goes to an actual contender.

[Splits]

If there is another Mod out there::::

1) Pink OP
2) Move this to the Think Tank

thxkthx

[noles1983]

Green, Manu, Mills, Simmons and Dedmon can get the fuck off the team immediately. Useless sacks of shit, all of them.

[TD 21]

Series isn't over (yet) obviously, but might as well get this warmed up.

Poo needs to diaf.
-LMA should be dangled to see what can be had for him, but otherwise keep him.
-Parker needs to be moved to the bench, but still has something.
-Manu needs to be taken out back and shot.
-Green will be fine as long as the Spurs get a new penetrating PG. Not sure you can move him anyway since his D is so important.
-Kawhi needs to work a bit on his handles and handling physical defenders
-Mills, Dedmon, Simmons, and Lee can leave
-Get Bertans and Murray some consistent damn playing time

Everyone's thoughts?

You beat me to it. Truth be told, I was close to pulling the trigger on this a few days ago, but knew the thread would be inundated with shit that essentially amounted to "you're giving up already?" and "can't this wait?", so I figured I'd wait until they were on the verge of flaming out against the Rockets.

- I'm done with Aldridge. Too limited and soft to be the 2nd best player on a championship team and doesn't time particularly well with Leonard
- The return for Aldridge would dictate the level of interest I'd have in bringing back Mills and Dedmon

I agree with the rest, though I'd be open to moving anyone not named Leonard, Murray and Bertans.

I don't care whether they do one of their patented piss away a series they were in control of or save the inevitable embarrassing exit for the next round, they can't bring the majority of this team back if they're serious about winning a championship. They had no business finishing with the record/point differential they did and in reality, are much closer to the bottom four playoff seeds in the West than they are the Warriors.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Aldridge needs touches to be effective.
Spurs have gone Kawhi Bean Bryant offense as this season has progressed.

It's on Pop for not finding a happy balance, and on LMA for screwing up his opportunities thus far

[TheGreatYacht]

McGee/Gasol
Aldridge/Bertans
Leonard/Anderson
Redick/Green
Murray/Parker

Dont want Anderson getting minutes, so Buford will have to draft a wing with potential. Maybe go after Stanley Johnson again....

[SAGirl]

I agree with OP pretty much.
Lamarcus as good as he has been on defense, has not been offensively what he's supposed to be for the team. Also, only 2 rebounds in 42 minutes... Grizz bigs were a beast, for a big like him just 2 rebounds in a playoff game it's almost ridiculous. Randolph had an off game offensively and still got 11 boards for example.
Also, when Pop tried to run the offense through Lamarcus he was a disaster, bc when he gets doubled he doesn't make the right reads or he gets the ball and doesn't want to shoot, or he's otherwise uncomfortable with his shot opportunities. He's been too passive a scorer and the team needs him. If they underachieve, aside of the guard situation with Manu having fallen off a cliff b4 our eyes, it's bc Lamarcus is not stepping up more.
As good as Pau is offensively it was telling that Pop closed the game with Lee (and he's a poor choice for defense, specially with his proclivity to give up and 1)... anyways, Pau was benched more or less. In a game that went OT he only played 21 minutes.

Agree Murray and Bertans should play more.
I am ambivalent on Mills. I think if you start Murray and move on to the next generation (even if he struggles and is up and down, team needs to push him)... anyways, that means Tony and him will be the guys for the most part and signing Mills in that situation is a waste of team resources, I am with MaNu4Tres (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5714) on that one.

If I have another thought I will add or comment later.
Manu will retire that is a given.

[Russ]

Yeah, off season starts now honestly. This series is done.

2014 -- Spurs struggle to get by 8 seed Dallas in 7 games. Win title.

2016 -- Spurs sweep 7 seed Memphis in 4. Lose in 2d round to OKC.

Based on history, I'll take the tough 1st round series.

[SAGirl]

2014 -- Spurs struggle to get by 8 seed Dallas in 7 games. Win title.

2016 -- Spurs sweep 7 seed Memphis in 4. Lose in 2d round to OKC.

Based on history, I'll take the tough 1st round series.
Yea... I am hoping this is more similar to 2014 as the team has a lot of new players, and Pop is probably going to have to make adjustments that incorporate players that he has not relied on b4 and to move on from some that he has. Probably the team's identity is a little bit in flux.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Yea... I am hoping this is more similar to 2014 as the team has a lot of new players, and Pop is probably going to have to make adjustments that incorporate players that he has not relied on b4 and to move on from some that he has. Probably the team's identity is a little bit in flux.

The latter for sure. The only hope this team has of succeeding is finding a unique identity and staying in a rhythm to maximize itself. Still time to do that, but its gotta happen soon.

[TD 21]

Aldridge needs touches to be effective.
Spurs have gone Kawhi Bean Bryant offense as this season has progressed.

It's on Pop for not finding a happy balance, and on LMA for screwing up his opportunities thus far

I was saying the same thing earlier in the season and I still maintain that he did at the time. But not counting preseason, we're now 86 games into the season and there's been no progression to the mean. He needs to do more with the touches he does get for them to entrust him with more possessions. He's been abysmal at attempting to create his own shot all season. They labor enough offensively as is; they can't afford more possessions watching his low percentage attempts and grenades to others up against a shot clock about to detonate.

[sasaint]

The latter for sure. The only hope this team has of succeeding is finding a unique identity and staying in a rhythm to maximize itself. Still time to do that, but its gotta happen soon.

The only hope this team has is to figure out a way to pull a 2011 all over again at this season's draft, except the guy they draft this season will have to take off faster than Kawhi. We are stuck with erratic role players and very little cap space to make any big splashes. Even if we were to hit another draft day home run, though, Pop would sit him on the bench and play him in Austin next season.

[MaNu4Tres]

I was saying the same thing earlier in the season and I still maintain that he did at the time. But not counting preseason, we're now 86 games into the season and there's been no progression to the mean. He needs to do more with the touches he does get for them to entrust him with more possessions. He's been abysmal at attempting to create his own shot all season. They labor enough offensively as is; they can't afford more possessions watching his low percentage attempts and grenades to others up against a shot clock about to detonate.

Spurs simply don't have good shot creators ( they have a really good one, but he has a rookie disease and is glued to the bench because its not fair yet) .

Everyone outside of Kawhi is constantly being stonewalled by their man when they make any move towards the rim. When they are being stone walled by their own defender, it's depressing. Passes are being made to guarded players. It means the weakside defense doesn't have to work or move or bend. That is why we are seeing so many last second grenades being thrown up from Anderson, Manu, Patty, Green. We are so fortunate Parker has been decent to even still be in this series. Fact of the matter is, this is a perimeter oriented league. Patty can't get off anything, unless he cheats the D in transition, Manu is done, Anderson was crap tonight, Green looks like a PE All Star when he has to try to make a move. Even for the bigs, Aldridge has been a mess all year, he can't get by his guy or put any pressure at the rim with any moves. He's as predictable as they come on offense.

I would have liked to see Gasol, Bertans more.

Lee and Manu need to sit forever.

[Mnky]

Aldridge earns his money. He does exactly what he is told to. He got it Going in thw third, and no one was looking for him. He cant help that the team has no legitimate creators. Gasol is likely the best creator the spurs have, thats sad. Team needa a real pg, someone who can attack. The wntire team is jump shooters, everyone haz to stay home. The pg should be destroying Memphis right now, not having a good quarter here oe there.

Manu is hard to watch. No defense, no offense amd bad decisions.

Bertans and simmons need to play. Dedmon oa showing why he wasnt getting big offers. All three should be retained relatively cheap. Of course bertans will be. Pop needs to give simmons the keys to the secons unit and sit manu already. Kid has earned it. Spmeone will next year. Hope he doesnt turn into another jamaaaaiiyyykal.

Anderson role is easy against this team, rebound and create, and he has been good in that role. He looks in better shape than he ever has. Woulsnt be the worse retaining him for depth.

Mills has beem off and so has Danny. I expect them to play well next game.

As far as coaching, pop is keeping everyone's price down in the offseason tbh. Always playing chess. Series isnt in jeopardy at all.
Nees to move on from baggage players and lwt these young guys develop already. Experience is where theyll grow.
Pick up a slasher and creator, and this team is eazily a contender. They need more competitive spirit though.

Grizzlies are playing better than all the other bottom 4 teams. Hats off to them.

[MaNu4Tres]

LA will have little value this summer. Spurs are better off keeping him, and letting him walk when he opts out. For the first time as a Spur, he may finally get off his ass and put in work this summer since it will essentially be his contract year. But what team would give up nice assets for a 1 yr rental w/out clarity on his intentions to re-sign or opt in? Even if LA commits to a team and tells them he'll re-sign, that ONE team will have leverage to drive down the price since that's the only place LA is willing to go.

Spurs will have to improve internally.

What I think will happen:

They will probably keep LA bc his value has dropped as I explained why above.
There's a small chance Pau opts out.
I think the market for a vet PF like Lee is very small to non existent ( he'll probably opt in).
Parker will start the season as the starting PG next yr.
Spurs will be getting their play-maker off the bench with Murray as their back up PG.
Manu will retire.
Let Patty get paid elsewhere.
Simmons will likely be elsewhere, or he may be back on a 1+1 cheap deal.
Hanga will be brought over.
Spurs should explore the market with Anderson. I'd consider trading him for a high 2nd rounder ( ORL) and get a prospect for cheap for the next 4 yrs vs. having Anderson for 1 more year before Restricted Free Agency ( not that think he will get paid -- I just rather have the 800K prospect for 4 years than pay Anderson 5-6 million. Andersons' 5-6 million + Mills 15 million can be used more efficiently at more relevant spots in the rotation.

Spurs really need to find a way to get another quality 3 and D player. Much better than Anderson/Simmons, they need this player to be the 3rd wing behind Kawhi/Green. Through trade, through the draft, through FA, it has to happen.

Murray, Bertans will have bigger roles. Forbes may have a role as well.

Dedmon has a huge question mark, not sure where his market sits with his disappointing end of the season. Unless SVG falls in love w/ him like he has all of the centers Spurs have to let go.

Parker/Murray/ Forbes/ vet PG
Green/Simmons?/ Hanga/ rookie?
Kawhi/ Bertans ( I know he played 4 this yr but Pop has to make this move next yr)/ Rookie?Trade?
LA/ Lee/ Rookie? Jordan Bell please? Lessort?
Pau?/Dedmon?/ Milutinov?

[TampaDude]

Manu is done. No matter what happens in this playoffs, he's gonna retire.

BTW I still think VC is on PEDs. He's way too athletic for his age.

[apalisoc_9]

LA will have little value this summer. Spurs are better off keeping him, and letting him walk when he opts out. For the first time as a Spur, he may finally get off his ass and put in work this summer since it will essentially be his contract year. But what team would give up nice assets for a 1 yr rental w/out clarity on his intentions to re-sign or opt in? Even if LA commits to a team and tells them he'll re-sign, that ONE team will have leverage to drive down the price since that's the only place LA is willing to go.

Spurs will have to improve internally.

What I think will happen:

They will probably keep LA bc his value has dropped as I explained why above.
There's a small chance Pau opts out.
I think the market for a vet PF like Lee is very small to non existent ( he'll probably opt in).
Parker will start the season as the starting PG next yr.
Spurs will be getting their play-maker off the bench with Murray as their back up PG.
Manu will retire.
Let Patty get paid elsewhere.
Simmons will likely be elsewhere, or he may be back on a 1+1 cheap deal.
Hanga will be brought over.
Spurs should explore the market with Anderson. I'd consider trading him for a high 2nd rounder ( ORL) and get a prospect for cheap for the next 4 yrs vs. having Anderson for 1 more year before Restricted Free Agency ( not that think he will get paid -- I just rather have the 800K prospect for 4 years than pay Anderson 5-6 million. Andersons' 5-6 million + Mills 15 million can be used more efficiently at more relevant spots in the rotation.

Spurs really need to find a way to get another quality 3 and D player. Much better than Anderson/Simmons, they need this player to be the 3rd wing behind Kawhi/Green. Through trade, through the draft, through FA, it has to happen.

Murray, Bertans will have bigger roles. Forbes may have a role as well.

Dedmon has a huge question mark, not sure where his market sits with his disappointing end of the season. Unless SVG falls in love w/ him like he has all of the centers Spurs have to let go.

Parker/Murray/ Forbes/ vet PG
Green/Simmons?/ Hanga/ rookie?
Kawhi/ Bertans ( I know he played 4 this yr but Pop has to make this move next yr)/ Rookie?Trade?
LA/ Lee/ Rookie? Jordan Bell please? Lessort?
Pau?/Dedmon?/ Milutinov?

Heard the Spurs are intersted with Stanley Johnson.

Man, I was screaming Evan Fournier two-three years ago before he became an expensive player.

I think there's interest with Simmons and Possibly Anderson. I doubt FO resigns Simmons. I expect him to get a 4+ deal.

[SAGirl]

as for the guys they would reup.. its very uncertain bc the market dictates prices and guys all of a sudden get interest from some team and poof... it happened with Cojo, Baynes, etc. Even roleplayers that we think are marginal have value. spursfan tends to underrate their own guys.

Thus I have stated from the very beginning I don't see Simmons doing a 1 and 1. He's 28 this summer and no way is that a good deal for him. I also think elsewhere he would get a better chance to play, even more usage. Guys at the spot in his career he's at are not going to care about being in the winning team and culture etc. He's already done that for 2 seasons on the cheap. He will look for a contract with guaranteed years from whoever, wherever he can get minutes.

This playoffs are still running and with Manu having fallen off a cliff and retiring, Simmons has a chance. Depending how he does with the chances he's about to get is the contract offer the Spurs are going to be prepared to make. No matter what Hanga is coming over to compete for minutes, Anderson is still in the team (IMO unlikely to be traded, with as much change as the team is going to suffer Spurs will hold on to Anderson for the length of his rook contract at least) and Murray and Bertans will for sure play more next season. Spurs may even draft a wing.... so If Simmons doesn't get market value and guaranteed years he will bolt and that is probably for the best for his personal interest like CoJo, unless Spurs were to commit to him. So far he hasn't earned that contract from the Spurs, but he still has time.

Spurs will need to reevaluate the whole team and maybe keeping Simmons at market value is worth it, might even be a better choice than paying Mills a big contract, depending on playoff performance.

I agree won't get much for Aldridge and the way contracts for even second tier stars have ballooned (like al Horford for example), Aldridge is in a good contract. Pau off the bench with as much personnel change as the spurs are likely to see is not a bad idea.

They will need internal growth from their young players.

[Robz4000]

My main hope is that the Spurs don't go signing players to pretend to contend like this past season. Just embrace taking a step back to develop younger players/preserve cap space for 2018. Let Kawhi go wild and win an MVP ala Westchimp.

[objective]

Agreed on taking a step back, forcing Pop to only have young players for any roster changes, and they have to PLAY YOUNG unlike Anderson.

Why bring Lee back? Blocking Bertans is what he does. Why bring Mills back? To watch him plump back into an Aussie Porker in his 30s and see his defense get even worse?

Maybe without having these vets around​ as easy crutches for Pop to put unreasonable faith in he'll have to exercise his mind again and innovate again.

[vander]

Spurs can't get much better this offseason, where's the 2018 offseason thread?

[tbdog]

TBH we are contending for the title, it is just that Warriors got Durant. If Warriors weren't around, I would say we are west favourites, and I like our chances against the Cavs.

[Play Boban]

Sign JJ Reddick tbh

[cjw]

- Those who want to chase Green out of town, I'm so glad you have zero decision making power. You literally have no clue how basketball works.

- Aldridge probably won't be moved, but will have value on the market contrary to what some of you say. His defense is actually very good for a big (huge improvement from where he was a few years ago), still can get buckets as a second offensive option, and is under a reasonable contract now that we've had a year of huge contract inflation.

- Manu had a very good season but is in the worst stretch I've seen a player go through in some time. Part of it has to be attributed to matchup (similarly don't expect Parker to do anything against Beverley like he is this series) so the tune will change if the Spurs advance to Houston. If he's back at the minimum, I'll happily take him.

- Didn't think it would happen a few months ago, but Dedmon could opt in knowing he needs to develop his game to cash in in FA. Teams may be wary of picking up guys who only spent a year in the Spurs system only to find they're far from a finished product. If he opts in, it's a team friendly deal that may allow him to reap a lot more in FA in 2018. Any chance Milunitov comes over?

- Natural improvement from Murray, Bertans and (gulp) Anderson will dictate what parts of the bench need to be focused on.

[RD2191]

I'd move LMA first, has always been a loser and will continue to be a loser.

[UZER]

I am one to be super critical of Pop and his dumb lineups and persistence on playing old guys like Manu without giving the young guys like Bertans more minutes.

With that said, he has got to be super frustrated with LMA. Dude is as soft as tissue and has 0 heart. He's being paid like a first option, but producing like a role player. He's supposed to be carrying the other side of the heavy load with Kawhi. Instead Kawhi is dragging the load with LMA sitting on it.

I know the spacing, play calling issues etc, but at some point you've just got to say fuck it, I'm getting this shit done, like Kawhi. But he just doesn't have it in him. He's mentally weak.

[gambit1990]

do not keep tony as a starter. i'd argue don't keep him on the roster at all.

only untouchable is kawhi, of course.

[TD 21]

LA will have little value this summer. Spurs are better off keeping him, and letting him walk when he opts out. For the first time as a Spur, he may finally get off his ass and put in work this summer since it will essentially be his contract year. But what team would give up nice assets for a 1 yr rental w/out clarity on his intentions to re-sign or opt in? Even if LA commits to a team and tells them he'll re-sign, that ONE team will have leverage to drive down the price since that's the only place LA is willing to go.

I think the market for a vet PF like Lee is very small to non existent ( he'll probably opt in).

Spurs really need to find a way to get another quality 3 and D player. Much better than Anderson/Simmons, they need this player to be the 3rd wing behind Kawhi/Green. Through trade, through the draft, through FA, it has to happen.

Dedmon has a huge question mark, not sure where his market sits with his disappointing end of the season. Unless SVG falls in love w/ him like he has all of the centers Spurs have to let go.

I don't think Aldridge will have the value many would probably like to think, either, but who knows?

If the Suns stay in the top 2, Bledsoe will be expendable. If medical staff are confident in Favors making a full recovery, I'd try them and the Jazz on a 3 teamer, with something like Favors/Hood to Spurs, Bledsoe/Bender to Jazz, Aldridge to Suns. Jazz lessen cap issues and get younger, slightly better and far cheaper Hill replacement.

If the Timberwolves stay at 6, I'd try them on something like Dieng and 6 for Aldridge and 29. They supposedly want win now veteran leaders. Aldridge may not be the latter and probably wouldn't be happy playing in Minnesota or playing 3rd or 4th fiddle on offense, but Thibodeau is old school and loves size, so they might take a flier anyway and hope to convince him to stay long term or failing that, re-route him at the deadline, a la Ibaka.


- Why would Lee opt in? Even if he can't do better, there's no risk in opting out. He's guaranteed another job somewhere, so he'll either get the minimum again or more.

- Can't have too many 3 and D wings, but another wing who can create is of greater importance. Parker will be another year older and there's no assurance that Murray will be ready for a semi-prominent role.

- Hard to pinpoint range with Dedmon, but MLE might get it done. Celtics and Nets are only teams that spring to mind with both the need and cap space for this type of center, though the former has bigger fish to fry.

[gambit1990]

phil jackson would still take la this summer. they'll be looking for a PG too.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't think Aldridge will have the value many would probably like to think, either, but who knows?

If the Suns stay in the top 2, Bledsoe will be expendable. If medical staff are confident in Favors making a full recovery, I'd try them and the Jazz on a 3 teamer, with something like Favors/Hood to Spurs, Bledsoe/Bender to Jazz, Aldridge to Suns. Jazz lessen cap issues and get younger, slightly better and far cheaper Hill replacement.

If the Timberwolves stay at 6, I'd try them on something like Dieng and 6 for Aldridge and 29. They supposedly want win now veteran leaders. Aldridge may not be the latter and probably wouldn't be happy playing in Minnesota or playing 3rd or 4th fiddle on offense, but Thibodeau is old school and loves size, so they might take a flier anyway and hope to convince him to stay long term or failing that, re-route him at the deadline, a la Ibaka.


- Why would Lee opt in? Even if he can't do better, there's no risk in opting out. He's guaranteed another job somewhere, so he'll either get the minimum again or more.

- Can't have too many 3 and D wings, but another wing who can create is of greater importance. Parker will be another year older and there's no assurance that Murray will be ready for a semi-prominent role.

- Hard to pinpoint range with Dedmon, but MLE might get it done. Celtics and Nets are only teams that spring to mind with both the need and cap space for this type of center, though the former has bigger fish to fry.

I hope you're right about LA having decent trade value. I just don't see it because of him having 1 yr left essentially.

Since last summer, I've been saying LAs' offense was overrated because he is not a shot creator and that Spurs should have traded him this past season. But maybe they tried? And couldn't find an offer they liked -- we do not know. I do not see a future for LA in SA. He's not a good long term fit and him coming into the off-season two years in a row out of shape speaks volumes. That laziness in the off-season is the reason why he's regressed from an All-Star to an inconsistent, but solid role player in a matter of 14-20 months. His play is not anyone's fault but his. He was the one who decided to use to season to try to get back in shape two years in a row now. Not working on your game in the offseason, when you're a "leader" for a team with championship aspirations is inexcusable and not the Spurs way. Even Pop had a quote in late December after a good stretch of games he had.. " He's getting into shape and feeling better". As I said before, I have a pretty good source mentioning how he regretting not going to PHX before last seasons trade deadline and last summer. I hope Spurs can find a way to get back decent value, even if its 50 cents on the dollar, I'd take it if its assets that can help Kawhi, Murray and co moving forward.

Lee will have nothing to lose to opt out, you're right. I just don't think any team will offer more than the minimum.. that will be his market from now til he retires and he seems to really enjoy being in San Antonio. I can see him being back for the vet min again.

Spurs need another quality two way wing -- better than Anderson/Simmons. One that has more versatility than Green on offense is ideal. But the player has to have size and has to be able to defend. I'd kick tires with Brett Brown and the Sixers.. I'd really like Covington on the Spurs. Not sure what it would take as the assets I'd be willing to part with the Sixers probably wouldn't find enticing.

I agree, it is hard to pinpoint Dedmons market right now.

As for Murray, there's no assurance for sure, but he's the best and most realistic option as the play-maker off the bench and he is a play-maker. How good is he? It's hard to tell because of the very small opportunity Pop gave him this year. But with what we DO know, and with what we HAVE to go off of, Murray performed damn well in relevant opportunities and the kid has a very strong work ethic. Pop glows about him in every chance he gets to talk about it. -- t he same way he talked about Kawhi.

The eight games he started, when he played 22mpg with the starters and against opposing starters accounted for over half of his total minutes on the SEASON. His Per 36 numbers this year are very comparable to Parkers' rookie year. The kid performed and did well in those opportunities. The only reason why Pop didn't continue going with him was because seniority with TP coming back from injury. No matter how good Murray was -- he wasn't going to play over Parker or Mills. There's no other quality play-makers that Spurs can realistically attain via Free Agency. It will be Murray's job.

[SAGirl]

I am one to be super critical of Pop and his dumb lineups and persistence on playing old guys like Manu without giving the young guys like Bertans more minutes.

With that said, he has got to be super frustrated with LMA. Dude is as soft as tissue and has 0 heart. He's being paid like a first option, but producing like a role player. He's supposed to be carrying the other side of the heavy load with Kawhi. Instead Kawhi is dragging the load with LMA sitting on it.

I know the spacing, play calling issues etc, but at some point you've just got to say fuck it, I'm getting this shit done, like Kawhi. But he just doesn't have it in him. He's mentally weak.
I agree with this statement about Lamarcus. He is not holding up his end of the bargain. He's playing like a good role player and that's not enough. the Spurs needed a second star next to Kawhi, specially during the minutes Kawhi sits briefly. I don't think Spurs will be championship contenders while they rely this heavily on Lamarcus but I think it's not that he's untradeable, but the haul for him might not be worth it... still we saw some trades this past season that maybe give hope. How about the Nurkic trade for example?

[objective]

I could see Lee opting out if only to get another 1+1 deal, guaranteeing himself more money in case of catastrophic career ending injury next year.

[TD 21]

I hope you're right about LA having decent trade value. I just don't see it because of him having 1 yr left essentially.

Since last summer, I've been saying LAs' offense was overrated because he is not a shot creator and that Spurs should have traded him this past season. But maybe they tried? And couldn't find an offer they liked -- we do not know. I do not see a future for LA in SA. He's not a good long term fit and him coming into the off-season two years in a row out of shape speaks volumes. That laziness in the off-season is the reason why he's regressed from an All-Star to an inconsistent, but solid role player in a matter of 14-20 months. His play is not anyone's fault but his. He was the one who decided to use to season to try to get back in shape two years in a row now. Not working on your game in the offseason, when you're a "leader" for a team with championship aspirations is inexcusable and not the Spurs way. Even Pop had a quote in late December after a good stretch of games he had.. " He's getting into shape and feeling better". As I said before, I have a pretty good source mentioning how he regretting not going to PHX before last seasons trade deadline and last summer. I hope Spurs can find a way to get back decent value, even if its 50 cents on the dollar, I'd take it if its assets that can help Kawhi, Murray and co moving forward.

Lee will have nothing to lose to opt out, you're right. I just don't think any team will offer more than the minimum.. that will be his market from now til he retires and he seems to really enjoy being in San Antonio. I can see him being back for the vet min again.

Spurs need another quality two way wing -- better than Anderson/Simmons. One that has more versatility than Green on offense is ideal. But the player has to have size and has to be able to defend. I'd kick tires with Brett Brown and the Sixers.. I'd really like Covington on the Spurs. Not sure what it would take as the assets I'd be willing to part with the Sixers probably wouldn't find enticing.

I agree, it is hard to pinpoint Dedmons market right now.

As for Murray, there's no assurance for sure, but he's the best and most realistic option as the play-maker off the bench and he is a play-maker. How good is he? It's hard to tell because of the very small opportunity Pop gave him this year. But with what we DO know, and with what we HAVE to go off of, Murray performed damn well in relevant opportunities and the kid has a very strong work ethic. Pop glows about him in every chance he gets to talk about it. -- t he same way he talked about Kawhi.

The eight games he started, when he played 22mpg with the starters and against opposing starters accounted for over half of his total minutes on the SEASON. His Per 36 numbers this year are very comparable to Parkers' rookie year. The kid performed and did well in those opportunities. The only reason why Pop didn't continue going with him was because seniority with TP coming back from injury. No matter how good Murray was -- he wasn't going to play over Parker or Mills. There's no other quality play-makers that Spurs can realistically attain via Free Agency. It will be Murray's job.

I don't know that Aldridge would be able to fetch either of those packages, I just think they're realistic enough to try and would make sense (again, with the caveats that the Suns stay in the top 2 and the Spurs medical staff is confident in Favors making a full recovery).

Regarding the Timberwolves' one, they could go one of two ways. If they're really high on Murray, they could go with whichever of Monk, Markkanen or Isaac is available. If not, they could pick whichever of Fox, Smith or Ntilikina is available at 6 and shop Murray for a late 1st. Hawks, Thunder, Nets, pick 20-22 and all have a need at backup point guard. Granted, they all passed on him a year ago, but things can change fast.


- I don't think Covington is attainable for what the Spurs can offer and there's no reason for them to want to give him up

- I suspect that Murray will have a clearer path to a rotation spot, but will still have to beat out a rotation caliber player

[Nathan89]

Priority number 1 is getting rid of LMA. We can't give him another contract so the best offer needs to be taken.

[spurraider21]

PG - tony will be in his contract year. he definitely has trade value as an expiring contract, but i doubt the spurs would look to do that. i think you let mills go. forbes will be the new mills. murray needs to be given every chance to earn a role, and hopefully a starting role

SG - green is a keeper. his main problem with his shooting the last couple of years has been tony. he's solely a catch-and-shoot player, and can't do anything off the dribble ( dabom (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=47543) you can PM me if you don't know what off the dribble means). normally that would be fine, but when parker suddenly is unable to penetrate, it then leaves green in a bad spot where he camps out and his defender never has to leave him as the D is never collapsing. i think Danny's shooting will recover if we have a penetrating point guard again... hopefully that can be murray.

as for the bench... manu probably retires, and not quite sure simmons showed anything this year outside of the season opener that makes me feel confident he can be a 20 minute guy. hanga can be a good answer. he can handle the ball, finish with athleticism, pass decently, and play good defense. a more proven version of what we hope simmons can be.

SF - not much to say about kawhi. but what about reserve SF? anderson isn't trustworthy and there isn't much depth past that unless pop plays bertans at the 3.

PF - i think you keep LMA and hope for a bounce back. i'm not really worried about age as his defense has been fine, and his offense is predicated on the jumpshot, which isn't really something he'd lose with age. his trade value wont be worth looking in that direction. lee was surprisingly good for most of the year, but his defensive deficiencies mean you cant trust him for big or crucial minutes. still, he's a good minutes eater that can help keep others fresh. but i really think bertans needs to have the more regular role going forward. his defense ins't consistent but he'll get that with experience. offensively he does a lot for a team that likes having kawhi operate in the midrange

C - dedmon had flashes, but overall was good not great. depends on what kind of contract he's expecting to land. he's good but not worth breaking the bank for. gasol will be back, but he's shown to be a great fit in the 2nd unit. starting C is a big concern

[weeks]

i was all in favor of LMA for a long time but i agree, it's time for him to go. i'd rather have someone with less talent and twice the fire.
pop needs to go.
kawhi, murray, bertans, green, parker, pau, dedmon depending on price
work from there

[coachmac87]

It's pretty obvious the Spurs need CP3 and CP3 needs the Spurs....

It's gonna happen

[gambit1990]

It's pretty obvious the Spurs need CP3 and CP3 needs the Spurs....

It's gonna happen
:hungry:

[apalisoc_9]

- Covington in an unrealistic target, specially with what San Antonio can offer. I'm sure the spurs will do their due a d right his name on a whiteboard or something. Maybe even call brett brown..but The Sixers can fetch more for a decent a 3 and D player like Covington

- It's going to be extremely difficult to convince the Suns to give up Bledsoe so they can get Aldridge. What direction are they trying to take? There's better three-team deals out there that can give them a valuable expeiring. Plus, their terrible. The only way I can see the suns trading for Aldridge is if they're delusional enough to think they have a shot at the 8th seed. What I am confident with is, they're going to try to desperatlt trade Bledsoe and Knight..so who knows.

- The Wovles deal presented is realistic, but the spurs are going to be worse next season. I very much doubt the PATFO would make a move that makes their team even worse.

[apalisoc_9]

-The Idea of Trading Rubio has floated around in Minnesota for a few months now. I think, there's potential negotiation for a Bledsoe-Rubio-Aldridge deal that gives the Suns the Wolves 2nd round pick. Or best, if The wolves somehow end up with a top 3 pick that they can swap with the Suns to get Aldridge in a three way trade.

- I think its comical to get rid of Rubio and hand the PG reigns to lavine, but Rubio has been in trade rumors for a while now and he's been super up and down.

- The Suns are looking for a more Pass PG first. Maybe they're convinced wit Booker. If so, Blessoe would have to go.

- The Suns get more picks or a better pick and they get a PG that can get Booker some buckets. The Spurs get a penetrating Guard in Bledsoe and keep their picks and the Wolves get that Veteran Player they really really need for a playoff push.

- Aldridge Rim Protection numbers is enticing and the Wolves badly need a rim protector.

[objective]

If Pop can ever get over himself and be willing to trade Parker, maybe it could happen.

Maybe Parker and a first would be enough to get Lin who is likely to opt out next summer. Maybe not enough , but I can dream. Lin could come off the bench in the Ginobili role, and Parker could be in New York having fun sticking his face in the way of the trajectory of glassware in nightclubs.

[ceperez]

I agree with this statement about Lamarcus. He is not holding up his end of the bargain. He's playing like a good role player and that's not enough. the Spurs needed a second star next to Kawhi, specially during the minutes Kawhi sits briefly. I don't think Spurs will be championship contenders while they rely this heavily on Lamarcus but I think it's not that he's untradeable, but the haul for him might not be worth it... still we saw some trades this past season that maybe give hope. How about the Nurkic trade for example?

I was demanding that they make a trade for Ibaka prior to the deadline. At least Ibaka can defend. Can't say the same for Aldridge.

[objective]

- It's going to be extremely difficult to convince the Suns to give up Bledsoe so they can get Aldridge. What direction are they trying to take? There's better three-team deals out there that can give them a valuable expeiring. Plus, their terrible. The only way I can see the suns trading for Aldridge is if they're delusional enough to think they have a shot at the 8th seed. What I am confident with is, they're going to try to desperatlt trade Bledsoe and Knight..so who knows.

I think it is possible only because bad GMs who know their jobs are on the line make dumb "win-now" moves to try and save their jobs, like when Hennigan traded for Ibaka and blew money on Biyombo and Green. McDunnough is in the same same boat now, and Sarver is missing that playoff money.

[cjw]

I was demanding that they make a trade for Ibaka prior to the deadline. At least Ibaka can defend. Can't say the same for Aldridge.

Ibaka is a good help defender and that creates all the highlights, but Aldridge is as good an overall defender and better man defender. Neither is an elite rebounder but Aldridge is better there.

That said, the two would make an interesting fit and spread the floor nicely. Dedmon doesn't have any green light to shoot even though he's not horrible (see his FT% and past season's midrange shooting) so teams sag.

Ibaka is also going to get paid a stupid amount this offseason, just wait.



If Pop can ever get over himself and be willing to trade Parker, maybe it could happen.

Maybe Parker and a first would be enough to get Lin who is likely to opt out next summer. Maybe not enough , but I can dream. Lin could come off the bench in the Ginobili role, and Parker could be in New York having fun sticking his face in the way of the trajectory of glassware in nightclubs.

I like Lin, but this team is not trading a first rounder plus a career Spur in Parker for a guy who saves them only $2 million, has been hurt all year and has another year on his deal after this one to come off the bench. They need to reload with cheap draft help.

[UZER]

Parker is not getting traded. Stop it.

Unless he informs the spurs he's retiring, and wants to help them work a deal on the way out, he's not going anywhere.

[CGD]

If there was ever a time to trade LMA it's during the window between this draft and first weeks of next season. As fickle as LA was during his last free agency, who would want to take the gamble at the trade deadline without having the benefit of selling him on your team for a full season?

I really think they at least have to explore the idea with PHX given the courtship history, and the fact PHX already has a glut of youngsters (especially PGs).

If PHX says the deal is: LMA for #2 but you have to take Knight's shitty deal back (and filler like Dudley/Len), I think you do that if you're the Spurs.

[ceperez]

The biggest problem of the Spurs is that they heavily invested in the low post game with Aldridge and Pau.

Unfortunately, as shown by Memphis, that kind of a game is totally inept give how soft these two players have become.

The Spurs should have invested like the Rockets, a more dynamic shoot the lights out approach.

Leonard cannot operate with the lanes that are clogged with big men. Leonard uses his length a lot to beat his man, but you can't beat players that are much longer (i.e. Marc Gasol).

[TheDoctor]

Guys, 2014 was a VERY different team and those guys were on a mission after what happened in 2013. We need to stop comparing that year and the possible similarities that we could have with this season. Not near the same circumstances, not near the same team's structure.

[gambit1990]

Parker is not getting traded. Stop it.
spurs would trade him to get cp3 imo.

for less than that i mostly agree with you.

[palangi]

I would use our two trade pieces this offseason. Lamarcus Aldridge and Danny Green. This team needs new blood. Trade LA to Phoenix and see if we can get Marquis Chriss or Alex Len back in the trade.
Then see if we can trade Green to Orlando and get their first round pick and Hezonja back.
Then in free agency bring in either Kentavious Caldwell-Pope or Tyreke Evans.

[Brazil]

You keep kawhi and Parker you trade all the rest tbh... except those two the rest is a massive disappointment those POs tbh...

[gambit1990]

You keep kawhi and Parker you trade all the rest tbh... except those two the rest is a massive disappointment those POs tbh...
:lmao

no, you don't keep parker.

[TheGreatYacht]

You keep kawhi and Parker you trade all the rest tbh... except those two the rest is a massive disappointment those POs tbh...
Agreed. Also Manure can go play in Philly (really doubt Brett Brown would even offer the vet min at this point....)

[Brazil]

:lmao

no, you don't keep parker.

:lol oh look the idiot village who cannot refrain himself talking about Parker

:lol must suck for you...basically except Parker and kawhi all the rest is playing worst than RS so yeah you keep kawhi and parkr for the reliable vet off the bench and trade what you can starting by mills and fathead

[dabom]

:lol oh look the idiot village who cannot refrain himself talking about Parker

:lol must suck for you...basically except Parker and kawhi all the rest is playing worst than RS so yeah you keep kawhi and parkr for the reliable vet off the bench and trade what you can starting by mills and fathead

Porker has played ok. Certainly not even good as 2014 POS porker yet. He is liable to go 2-7 tomorrow. :lol

Mills hasn't lost us any games faggot. :lmao

[dabom]

And we all know porker has a durability issue. I wouldn't expect him to be part of any core for the Spurs going forward. We're getting past the grizz and I expect porker to flame out and get bailed out like his usual self. :lmao

[palangi]

:lol oh look the idiot village who cannot refrain himself talking about Parker

:lol must suck for you...basically except Parker and kawhi all the rest is playing worst than RS so yeah you keep kawhi and parkr for the reliable vet off the bench and trade what you can starting by mills and fatheadIs that the "idiot village" or village idiot"? hmmm...someone doesn't look to smart trying to call someone else an idiot.

[gambit1990]

:lol oh look the idiot village who cannot refrain himself talking about Parker

:lol must suck for you...basically except Parker and kawhi all the rest is playing worst than RS so yeah you keep kawhi and parkr for the reliable vet off the bench and trade what you can starting by mills and fathead
umm... i've never been kyle fan. see the thread i posted about tony.

[cjw]

I would use our two trade pieces this offseason. Lamarcus Aldridge and Danny Green. This team needs new blood. Trade LA to Phoenix and see if we can get Marquis Chriss or Alex Len back in the trade.
Then see if we can trade Green to Orlando and get their first round pick and Hezonja back.
Then in free agency bring in either Kentavious Caldwell-Pope or Tyreke Evans.

You really are trying to turn this into a lottery team but as long as Kawhi is around they're at least an 8 seed. You don't trade LA or Green for pennies on the dollar. Just because Len and Hezonja were drafted high doesn't mean they should have been.

KCP is a restricted FA so unlikely unless you go crazy with the offer (and how are you going to have cap space to make the offer)? Evans will never play for the Spurs.

[palangi]

You really are trying to turn this into a lottery team but as long as Kawhi is around they're at least an 8 seed. You don't trade LA or Green for pennies on the dollar. Just because Len and Hezonja were drafted high doesn't mean they should have been.

KCP is a restricted FA so unlikely unless you go crazy with the offer (and how are you going to have cap space to make the offer)? Evans will never play for the Spurs.

Well I guess that is your opinion. I'm obviously not as high on LA and Green as you are.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs shouldn't just try to keep the boat afloat by applying temporary old band aids.

I said it last off-season, they need to start making moves towards the Warriors on a timeline that is 2-3 years out. There's no moves Spurs can make that can put them as equals to the Warriors for next year. There were none last summer either. That's why I didn't want to utilize the resources they did have on Gasol. They need to start building a young versatile/athletic roster to grow with Kawhi. Use resources to attain as many young two-way players as possible who are not defensive liabilities.

The next 3 years belong to Warriors, but if Spurs can build up to where they hit their peak while Warriors' level of play inevitably descends, Spurs may be right there again as Kawhi hits 28-30 years old. Kawhi's game should age well and Spurs should still win 50+ games going this route instead of the route they went last summer. It's time for change.

By no means does this mean, I"m suggesting they blow it up and be a lottery team. Spurs can still easily be a 50 win team going through this 2-3 year process.

[ducks]

Spending 14 million on Manu was stupid should have let him be a sixer

[TD 21]

- It's going to be extremely difficult to convince the Suns to give up Bledsoe so they can get Aldridge. What direction are they trying to take? There's better three-team deals out there that can give them a valuable expeiring. Plus, their terrible. The only way I can see the suns trading for Aldridge is if they're delusional enough to think they have a shot at the 8th seed. What I am confident with is, they're going to try to desperatlt trade Bledsoe and Knight..so who knows.

- The Wovles deal presented is realistic, but the spurs are going to be worse next season. I very much doubt the PATFO would make a move that makes their team even worse.

Again, if the Suns stay in the top 2 and end up with Fultz or Ball, thereby making Bledsoe expendable. Here's why they'd potentially have interest . . .


I think it is possible only because bad GMs who know their jobs are on the line make dumb "win-now" moves to try and save their jobs, like when Hennigan traded for Ibaka and blew money on Biyombo and Green. McDunnough is in the same same boat now, and Sarver is missing that playoff money.

Also, they were close with Aldridge 2 years ago, so they probably feel there's a good chance he'd re-sign and they've got to be realistic: they've been terrible from '11 on and no one with as much or more cache as Aldridge is signing with them.

As far as the Timberwolves deal and how much worse the Spurs would be next season, it would obviously depend mostly on how much the draft pick(s) are able to contribute, but I actually think it would hurt more in the regular season than playoffs. That team would probably win 50 instead of 60, but it's pretty obvious that this team would have struggled with any of the bottom four playoff seeds in the West anyway.



-The Idea of Trading Rubio has floated around in Minnesota for a few months now. I think, there's potential negotiation for a Bledsoe-Rubio-Aldridge deal that gives the Suns the Wolves 2nd round pick. Or best, if The wolves somehow end up with a top 3 pick that they can swap with the Suns to get Aldridge in a three way trade.

- I think its comical to get rid of Rubio and hand the PG reigns to lavine, but Rubio has been in trade rumors for a while now and he's been super up and down.

- The Suns are looking for a more Pass PG first. Maybe they're convinced wit Booker. If so, Blessoe would have to go.

Rubio will be traded sooner than later and despite his terrible rookie season, the reigns will be handed to Dunn, with Jones backing him up. LaVine is strictly a shooting guard.

Not a chance the Suns move Booker to point guard. They purposely tanked for top 2 odds and should the lottery balls bounce their way, they will select either Fultz or Ball, with Ulis backing whichever up.


KCP is a restricted FA so unlikely unless you go crazy with the offer (and how are you going to have cap space to make the offer)? Evans will never play for the Spurs.

According to a rumor from a few weeks ago, the Pistons suspect the Nets might offer Cadlwell-Pope the max and are prepared to match it.

Why so definitive on Evans? Not saying it'll happen, but he doesn't strike me as not Spurs material and would fill an obvious need.

[MaNu4Tres]

Again, if the Suns stay in the top 2 and end up with Fultz or Ball, thereby making Bledsoe expendable. Here's why they'd potentially have interest . . .



Also, they were close with Aldridge 2 years ago, so they probably feel there's a good chance he'd re-sign and they've got to be realistic: they've been terrible from '11 on and no one with as much or more cache as Aldridge is signing with them.

As far as the Timberwolves deal and how much worse the Spurs would be next season, it would obviously depend mostly on how much the draft pick(s) are able to contribute, but I actually think it would hurt more in the regular season than playoffs. That team would probably win 50 instead of 60, but it's pretty obvious that this team would have struggled with any of the bottom four playoff seeds in the West anyway.

I can definitely see PHX in the cards as a potential trade partner. Esp if Suns get a top 2 pick, as you said. Sarver is desperate, LA loves PHX. I can def see him signing there long term. PIf that's the case, I'd try to find a third team like Sacramento or maybe New York ( both are desperate for a PG).

LA to PHX
Bledsoe to SAC
WCS, Afflalo ( Spurs can opt out his team option and have 12 million to work with in FA), the 8th pick of the draft, and a top 10 protected future 1st.

[TD 21]

I can definitely see PHX in the cards as a potential trade partner. Esp if Suns get a top 2 pick, as you said. Sarver is desperate, LA loves PHX. I can def see him signing there long term. PIf that's the case, I'd try to find a third team like Sacramento or maybe New York ( both are desperate for a PG).

LA to PHX
Bledsoe to SAC
WCS, Afflalo ( Spurs can opt out his team option and have 12 million to work with in FA), the 8th pick of the draft, and a top 10 protected future 1st.

It seems the Kings have finally accepted re-building, so giving up Cauley-Stein and the 8th pick wouldn't make sense, especially when between said pick and probably the Pelicans (top 3 protected) one, they'll be in position to draft one of Fox, Smith or Ntilikina anyway. Throwing in a top 10 protected future 1st would be a flat out overpay.

That would be a no brainer for the Spurs though.

[MaNu4Tres]

It seems the Kings have finally accepted re-building, so giving up Cauley-Stein and the 8th pick wouldn't make sense, especially when between said pick and probably the Pelicans (top 3 protected) one, they'll be in position to draft one of Fox, Smith or Ntilikina anyway. Throwing in a top 10 protected future 1st would be a flat out overpay.

That would be a no brainer for the Spurs though.

Don't put anything past Vivek and Vlade.

[SAGirl]

I have a hard time envisioning any move that would make the Spurs worse even in the short term with a long view in mind. Unless Kawhi is injured like Drob way back, Spurs aren't going to tank and I would rather Lawhi not get injured. I don't think Kawhi would like or support any move that's not to improve the team and the Spurs have younger players they need to develop with a winning mentality and habits.
I am not replying to anyone in particular with this. Just a general statement at that thought. I think this season in particular they chose to stand pat on purpose and weren't aggressive with any trade outside due diligence.
I don't expect them to want to move anybody bc they knew going into this season where the weak links were and chose to not address them or simply went a different direction.

I guess in a way what I am saying is that I wish they were a bit more radical but I don't expect it.
I think they will address the guard situation bc they have to, 2 of their current guards are FA and one is retiring so that's where I expect some improvement/change in personnel.

[tbdog]

LMA won't get traded, unless he wants out. It is that simple. It is not like the Spurs to trade him. And defiantly not for WCS

[Brazil]

Porker has played ok.

Fact


Certainly not even good as 2014 POS porker yet.

Fact but nobody was expecting that from him anyway


He is liable to go 2-7 tomorrow. :lol

Opinion.


Mills hasn't lost us any games faggot. :lmao

Never said otherwise

[Brazil]

Is that the "idiot village" or village idiot"? hmmm...someone doesn't look to smart trying to call someone else an idiot.

hmmm someone is acting like an idiot

idiot brings a notion of lack of intelligence, idiot village or village idiot kind of mistake is lack of attention which is quite ok when English is your third language anyway

if you want to call out someone do it properly faggot

[Brazil]

umm... i've never been kyle fan. see the thread i posted about tony.

with the "trade what you can starting by..." I liaise my post with the thread, never said you were a fathead fan

just threw 2 names of players with some tradable value, quite random tbh

[coachmac87]

Spurs shouldn't just try to keep the boat afloat by applying temporary old band aids.

I said it last off-season, they need to start making moves towards the Warriors on a timeline that is 2-3 years out. There's no moves Spurs can make that can put them as equals to the Warriors for next year. There were none last summer either. That's why I didn't want to utilize the resources they did have on Gasol. They need to start building a young versatile/athletic roster to grow with Kawhi. Use resources to attain as many young two-way players as possible who are not defensive liabilities.

The next 3 years belong to Warriors, but if Spurs can build up to where they hit their peak while Warriors' level of play inevitably descends, Spurs may be right there again as Kawhi hits 28-30 years old. Kawhi's game should age well and Spurs should still win 50+ games going this route instead of the route they went last summer. It's time for change.

By no means does this mean, I"m suggesting they blow it up and be a lottery team. Spurs can still easily be a 50 win team going through this 2-3 year process.


But what if the Warriors don't win it all this year? People need to stop assuming things tbh..season is far from over.

Spurs offseason boils down to 3 players. 1. LMA 2.Gasol 3. Manu

Regardless what happens this year the Spurs need a plan in place for these players..

LMA- Are they going to move on from him or nah? He's gotta be the first domino to fall in what direction they go. I had sources saying the trade rumors earlier this year were true. I don't think it's gone away tbh and I think he could get moved..

Gasol- Will he opt in or nah? I'm sure his role going forward determines a lot tbh. I think he's opting out regardless if he comes back or not. Spurs will offer him lead bench big man role and a chance to retire a Spur...make him resign a 3 yr deal for 27-30M range..but Spurs must stick with him on bench and Pau has to take it or leave it

Manu- I'm 75% sure he's retiring. But no matter what he does he needs to get replaced. Is Simmons that guy?? I'm uncomfortable with that idea unless Simmons takes discount


Now with all this said...Spurs need to go after and kick the tires on CP3. I don't care what BS reports are out CP3 will not resign with Clippers. Expect the unexpected and if he wants to contend for a title his time is NOW.

I also think it's literally impossible to dictate how this offseason will go..so many moving parts Melo, Griffin, CP3, and what do the Warriors do?

[SAGirl]

But what if the Warriors don't win it all this year? People need to stop assuming things tbh..season is far from over.

Spurs offseason boils down to 3 players. 1. LMA 2.Gasol 3. Manu

Regardless what happens this year the Spurs need a plan in place for these players..

LMA- Are they going to move on from him or nah? He's gotta be the first domino to fall in what direction they go. I had sources saying the trade rumors earlier this year were true. I don't think it's gone away tbh and I think he could get moved..

Gasol- Will he opt in or nah? I'm sure his role going forward determines a lot tbh. I think he's opting out regardless if he comes back or not. Spurs will offer him lead bench big man role and a chance to retire a Spur...make him resign a 3 yr deal for 27-30M range..but Spurs must stick with him on bench and Pau has to take it or leave it

Manu- I'm 75% sure he's retiring. But no matter what he does he needs to get replaced. Is Simmons that guy?? I'm uncomfortable with that idea unless Simmons takes discount


Now with all this said...Spurs need to go after and kick the tires on CP3. I don't care what BS reports are out CP3 will not resign with Clippers. Expect the unexpected and if he wants to contend for a title his time is NOW.

I also think it's literally impossible to dictate how this offseason will go..so many moving parts Melo, Griffin, CP3, and what do the Warriors do?
Good points.
I am not a fan of the way Lamarcus if flaming out in the playoffs. I get that he's been solid on defense, but he's not playing like a star. I would only move him if the players coming back make sense. Despite him underachieving, if they don't get back someone who will make sense and improve the team.. I don't think spurs trade him... as I said, I doubt they take a gamble and make a move that will not clearly improve the team... unless Memphis backdoor sweeps them while Lamarcus is helpless to help Kawhi out there, I guess.
Pau... he's been disappointing when you consider he is being paid 15 mill and has been sent to the bench and is getting further benched/minutes cut in playoff games bc he doesn't play defense.
Manu needs to retire.. god bless him but I wouldn't take him back even for the vet minimum. He's clearly done and unplayable in the playoffs and will be worse at 40, meantime he serves as Pop's security blanket during the regular season, taking playing time younger players need to develop and grow. I think JSimms is gone. He should not take a discounted or less than market deal to stay a Spur. As I detailed in a post I made in the first page, it's true he got all the opportunities to develop this season, and yet turned out a very inconsistent performance all season and if he stays he's going to get further competition with other prospects... so it doesn't make sense for him to stay. We shall see, it's possible he doesn't get much interest elsewhere, but I doubt it. Some team will give him a good deal and he should bolt for his own good... he should leave if he gets a better than 1 and 1 deal or discounted deal from the Spurs.

what do you think of Mills? I think they move on from him too.

[coachmac87]

Good points.
I am not a fan of the way Lamarcus if flaming out in the playoffs. I get that he's been solid on defense, but he's not playing like a star. I would only move him if the players coming back make sense. Despite him underachieving, if they don't get back someone who will make sense and improve the team.. I don't think spurs trade him... as I said, I doubt they take a gamble and make a move that will not clearly improve the team... unless Memphis backdoor sweeps them while Lamarcus is helpless to help Kawhi out there, I guess.
Pau... he's been disappointing when you consider he is being paid 15 mill and has been sent to the bench and is getting further benched/minutes cut in playoff games bc he doesn't play defense.
Manu needs to retire.. god bless him but I wouldn't take him back even for the vet minimum. He's clearly done and unplayable in the playoffs and will be worse at 40, meantime he serves as Pop's security blanket during the regular season, taking playing time younger players need to develop and grow. I think JSimms is gone. He should not take a discounted or less than market deal to stay a Spur. As I detailed in a post I made in the first page, it's true he got all the opportunities to develop this season, and yet turned out a very inconsistent performance all season and if he stays he's going to get further competition with other prospects... so it doesn't make sense for him to stay. We shall see, it's possible he doesn't get much interest elsewhere, but I doubt it. Some team will give him a good deal and he should bolt for his own good... he should leave if he gets a better than 1 and 1 deal or discounted deal from the Spurs.

what do you think of Mills? I think they move on from him too.


Mills is gone...

Again the offseason evolves around the 3 players I listed in that order. Also the CP3 to SA possibility is also a factor in what they do with Pau/LMA. The Spurs have to approach CP3 just like they did KD..you have to kick the tires and adjust accordingly. I think if you're an expiring on the Spurs and not willing to sign for a discount they're gone. Quick roster breakdown

Parker- Back up PG to CP3 and on the Manu restrictions (Off days, minutes etc)

Murray- Combo guard off bench, plays the 1/2 depending on Parker, plays combination of Simmons, Mills, Manu role and truly learns behind CP3

Mills- Gone

Forbes- Keep and develop into a Patty 14' role once Parker leaves following year etc

Green- Look to keep but willing to move if necessary

Kawhi-Keep

Anderson- Keep. Spurs will need all the cheap decent bodies they can get..

Bertans- Keep.

LMA-Like to Keep, but I'd move him if it allows me to get Paul

Pau- Must opt out and sign cheaper/longer deal. Lead big off bench

Dedmon- Gone or sign 1/2 year discount deal. Starting C who can hopefully increase value with CP3.

Lee- Keep on minimum deal. If not gone

Simmons- Gone or sign 1/2 similar deal like Dedmon

Spurs gotta 2 yr window to maximize with Pop being around and Kawhi contract..that's why I'm so adamant on going after CP3. Both are in similar windows etc. people wanting to go young and pretty much rebuild are missing the fact that Kawhi will be gone once his deal is up....

Go all in

[palangi]

hmmm someone is acting like an idiot

idiot brings a notion of lack of intelligence, idiot village or village idiot kind of mistake is lack of attention which is quite ok when English is your third language anyway

if you want to call out someone do it properly faggotStill not used properly. You should be proper if you are about to insult someone else intelligence. But keep calling others idiots when you can even get a phrase right.

And your homophobic ass is sensative. I think we all know why too..........:rollin

[MaNu4Tres]

Good points.
I am not a fan of the way Lamarcus if flaming out in the playoffs. I get that he's been solid on defense, but he's not playing like a star. I would only move him if the players coming back make sense. Despite him underachieving, if they don't get back someone who will make sense and improve the team.. I don't think spurs trade him... as I said, I doubt they take a gamble and make a move that will not clearly improve the team... unless Memphis backdoor sweeps them while Lamarcus is helpless to help Kawhi out there, I guess.
.

Improve the team in what time frame? What kind of time frame do you think Spurs must improve on in order to trade Aldridge?

Spurs are going to struggle in the 1st two rounds next year anyway and have no chance as is, even with internal improvement. Aldridge will likely opt out and sign elsewhere and Spurs won't have any assets besides cap space to show for.

Hypothetical of three way trade featuring Aldridge to PHX, Bledsoe to SAC for WCS, Afflalo dump, and the 8th pick would improve the team in the long run. How much and how soon? We don't know. It depends on who they pick and how much they can get out of the Afflalo 12 million in cap space this summer, WCS and the 8th pick. Would it improve the Spurs chances next year? Probably not, but they'd go from 61 games to maybe 53. Spurs would still be good enough to win 50 games and be in the same situation they are in now -- struggling vs. a 7th seed that's missing two starters. And Spurs would be a lot better situation by summer of 2018 by making this type of deal compared to having no 8th pick in the pipeline, no WCS and just having the cap space -- which they could have 75% of the anticipated cap space a summer early by making this type deal. Sometimes you have to take 1 step back and make a gamble or sacrifice for one year in order to take two steps forward down the line. You sound like fans who didn't understand why they made the Hill for the 15th pick trade.

No offense but you're thinking very short term.

[SAGirl]

coachmac87 That plan looks good to me. I'd hope they can make something work as you said. :tu

[Leetonidas]

Now that Tim is gone idc about who they get rid of. Only keeper is obviously Kawhi. I'd hang onto Murray. Everyone else can gtfo tbh

[DPG21920]

People are making a lot of assumptions. Sure, SA is playing poorly currently but what if they make it to a WCF? Doesn't that change what people are saying? Or does it shift from "2nd round ceiling" to "no REAl shot at a title" argument?

We have to see how things play out is all I'm saying.

[SAGirl]

Improve the team in what time frame? What kind of time frame do you think Spurs must improve on in order to trade Aldridge?

Spurs are going to struggle in the 1st two rounds next year anyway and have no chance as is, even with internal improvement. Aldridge will likely opt out and sign elsewhere and Spurs won't have any assets besides cap space to show for.

Hypothetical of three way trade featuring Aldridge to PHX, Bledsoe to SAC for WCS, Afflalo dump, and the 8th pick would improve the team in the long run. How much and how soon? We don't know. It depends on who they pick and how much they can get out of the Afflalo 12 million in cap space this summer, WCS and the 8th pick. Would it improve the Spurs chances next year? Probably not, but they'd go from 61 games to maybe 53. Spurs would still be good enough to win 50 games and be in the same situation they are in now -- struggling vs. a 7th seed that's missing two starters. And Spurs would be a lot better situation by summer of 2018 by making this type of deal compared to having no 8th pick in the pipeline, no WCS and just having the cap space -- which they could have 75% of the anticipated cap space a summer early by making this type deal. Sometimes you have to take 1 step back and make a gamble or sacrifice for one year in order to take two steps forward down the line. You sound like fans who didn't understand why they made the Hill for the 15th pick trade.

No offense but you're thinking very short term.
I am keeping it realistic. In reality, it's not even about what I have in mind, or what I'd like to see. For me, I didn't even like the Pau signing. I haven't liked him most of the season, I was constantly criticizing his statue like lack of defense early in the season and he was largely to blame for the slow defensive starts, some unexplicable losses at home early in the season, etc. He was benched, let's make no mistake about that bc he was so bad on defense as to be unplayable sometimes. He came in late in the season off the bench and saved some games bc he was so hot from 3 and can be hidden somewhat on defense in the bench, but he's not built for current playoff basketball the way he's playing. I had always preferred the Spurs made a move for an elite guard.

I would have preferred Pop to play Murray, and Bertans more through the season. It's one of the reasons I never warmed up to Lee truth be told. He was ok in the regular season, but Bertans offered so much more and it is showing now. One of the reasons I am not hot on Lee is that he's blocking out Bertans from playing time. I can't warm up to him that way. I wanted to see Anderson.. I know you are not a fan.. and many aren't... but he was solid to end the season and really was deep benched most of the season and only got minutes the last 6 weeks more or less and now it seems like Pop probably needs some production from him and yet he wasn't played until the end of the season. I like the way the younger players play together. I like Bertans and Anderson together, with Murray actually... I suppose I am stating what I'd like to see... which was probably more development this season than we got to see with a pretend contender playing a lot of old dudes in the regular season while the younger players didn't get run sufficiently for Pop to be comfortable and confident about their play. I would have preferred a 50 win team that gave playing time to younger players (and maybe their growth/inconsistencies or mistakes cost you a few... but they learn)... anyways, that is not what Pop did and I doubt they will do it next season too...

So, I guess I am keeping my expectations for any changes down. I think the rumors about Lamarcus were true... but they likely didn't get any offers they liked. I doubt they trade him for someone who is not better... or some way that they see as a clear improvement. From my understanding in your scenario the Spurs end up with the 8th pick in the draft which would really be a nice prize if they have someone scouted like they did Kiwi. If there is someone they like in the draft like they liked Kawhi back in the day I will be excited. I actually thought, (you can look that up, and Chinook and the Danny Green church pls forgive me if they must) Danny could be traded this past summer for a lottery pick. Yea I was in that illusionist group. It didn't happen. So I guess I am just telling you what I think is likely not what I want to see.

[MaNu4Tres]

People are making a lot of assumptions. Sure, SA is playing poorly currently but what if they make it to a WCF? Doesn't that change what people are saying? Or does it shift from "2nd round ceiling" to "no REAl shot at a title" argument?

We have to see how things play out is all I'm saying.

Ahhh.. I love me some DPG wisdom to bring me back down.

In all seriousness, this team is struggling vs. a 7th seed that has BOTH of their starting wings out. I'm no Miss Cleo, but I don't see any reason for optimism right now. This team has been the most inconsistent 60 win team I've ever seen. It's been that way all season long and their inconsistency as individual players (outside of Kawhi)and as a group are disappointing.

I don't see them getting past Houston. I'm actually putting money on that too if the matchup happens. :smokin

[DPG21920]

Ahhh.. I love me some DPG wisdom to bring me back down.

In all seriousness, this team is struggling vs. a 7th seed that has BOTH of their starting wings out. I'm no Miss Cleo, but I don't see any reason for optimism right now. This team has been the most inconsistent 60 win team I've ever seen. It's been that way all season long and their inconsistency as individual players (outside of Kawhi)and as a group are disappointing.

I don't see them getting past Houston. I'm actually putting money on that too if the matchup happens. :smokin

I am all good discussing plans and what is likely, but when it comes to team building it's really tough. Spurs can go from cold to hot in a game or two (see games 1 & 2 where there were no struggles at all).

The struggles aren't due to anything but lack of shooting and some poor coaching decisions. The latter being easily masked if the team was just hitting at a normal rate.

I definitely think SA can get past HOU and that is what I would bet on tbh..not that it changes the overall discussion but it kind of does.

I look at it this way. Yes, SA has holes, but they are better than pretty much every other team with those holes. Let's say Murray really blossoms, that probably solves many of the problems we are discussing today so keeping this team together for one more year while adding some younger pieces next year could be a big boost.

[Brazil]

Still not used properly. You should be proper if you are about to insult someone else intelligence. But keep calling others idiots when you can even get a phrase right.

And your homophobic ass is sensative. I think we all know why too..........:rollin

you don't make any sense but it was expected :rollin

[palangi]

you don't make any sense but it was expected :rollin

I love when homophobics get all butt hurt. Hmmmm......

[Brazil]

I love when homophobics get all butt hurt. Hmmmm......

It seems you are getting excited and all wet suddenly...

[apalisoc_9]

People are making a lot of assumptions. Sure, SA is playing poorly currently but what if they make it to a WCF? Doesn't that change what people are saying? Or does it shift from "2nd round ceiling" to "no REAl shot at a title" argument?

We have to see how things play out is all I'm saying.

Always believed that if you have a shot at the WCF, you always have a shot.

Gotta roll the dice. So many things happen in the playoffs.

One Historic Spurs game in Golden State in the first two games might be enough. Who knows. Maybe Durant is bad for GSW. Maybe Mike Brown has a megative affect.

[TD 21]

Are they adverse to significant change, though? Keeping it mostly status quo was easy when they had an all time core, that was loyal and had proven they could win championships.

They'd probably be content with mostly status quo if they felt this team was close, but if they get ran off the floor by the Rockets in 6 or worse, find a way to lose this series, they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't re-evaluate. There's been too many series this decade where they blew a series lead and in most cases went on to lose to a team presumed to be inferior, to pretend it's not a disturbing trend and resort to myriad excuses/reasons.

Also, sometime soon, they won't be able to prevent significant decline because there's so little young talent in the pipeline. Relative health and rare late game luck prevented it from being reflected more in their record, but it's actually already began. Obviously, they're not going to bottom out and Leonard is probably too good to let them even if they did try, but that's why trading Aldridge makes sense because he's the one piece that might be able to fetch them something significant.

[Robz4000]

Something that needs to change, regardless of personnel moves, is the offensive system (or lack thereof). No more of this 90s style ISO offense; bring back more ball movement and driving and kicking. That should come with a change at PG hopefully, but Pop needs to realize being cute and zigging while the rest of the league is zagging will not get it done. A big part of the reason most of us predicted a postseason collapse was due to the predictability of the offense.

[palangi]

It seems you are getting excited and all wet suddenly...

Dry and bored. Your shit hole doesn't excite. But I'm sure your homophobic ass know some guys who will keep pumping your wishing well.

[tbdog]

If we can retain Lee, those 3 bigs are a nice rotation. Try and find a Splitter, Bogut, you know, something like that for a vet min. Those 4 to go with Bertans is a fine big rotation. The problem is the guard play. Manu is done. Parker is too inconsistent at his age. Same as Mills. Green, who knows who turns up but his D is great. What we need and everyone knows it, is a penetrating guard. Anderson can back up Leonard. Priority is a rotational sg who can contend for starting SG.

[sasaint]

Something that needs to change, regardless of personnel moves, is the offensive system (or lack thereof). No more of this 90s style ISO offense; bring back more ball movement and driving and kicking. That should come with a change at PG hopefully, but Pop needs to realize being cute and zigging while the rest of the league is zagging will not get it done. A big part of the reason most of us predicted a postseason collapse was due to the predictability of the offense.

The Spurs' current offense is a direct result of signing LMA. It will be the Spurs' offense as long as LMA wears a Spurs uniform. He has a very low BBIQ, and passing is a complete mystery to him.

[Robz4000]

The Spurs' current offense is a direct result of signing LMA. It will be the Spurs' offense as long as LMA wears a Spurs uniform. He has a very low BBIQ, and passing is a complete mystery to him.

They don't need to be an ISO offense to utilize him, nor does he need to be a great passer. They just need to use him as a spot up shooter more and get him to be a bit more of a roller. The entire team this season has a bad habit if standing around doing nothing on the offensive end; it's disgusting. Even if they come back with the same team next year that bad habit can't continue.

[apalisoc_9]

Something that needs to change, regardless of personnel moves, is the offensive system (or lack thereof). No more of this 90s style ISO offense; bring back more ball movement and driving and kicking. That should come with a change at PG hopefully, but Pop needs to realize being cute and zigging while the rest of the league is zagging will not get it done. A big part of the reason most of us predicted a postseason collapse was due to the predictability of the offense.

Pop knows this...Why do you think Kawhi has stopped doing post-ups and instead doing a lot of screen offense. :lol

They just dont have the personel. Plus Aldridge never rolls.

You need great roll men to creat an offense that generates a lot of corner threes.

Draymond-Deandre-Thomposon etc.

[Robz4000]

Pop knows this...Why do you think Kawhi has stopped doing post-ups and instead doing a lot of screen offense. :lol

They just dont have the personel. Plus Aldridge never rolls.

You need great roll men to creat an offense that generates a lot of corner threes.

Draymond-Deandre-Thomposon etc.

Dedmon/Lee are solid rollers, and while LMA/Gasol aren't good at it you can utilize them in the high post ala Duncan or just have them on the perimeter. Kawhi has shown a growing ability to penetrate and kick out over the season, so hopefully he works on that further in the off season. The offense of the past two years was built strictly to combat the Dubs, and clearly it hasn't taken into account that other teams can easily game plan to stop it. There needs to be more fluidity and unpredictability to make it good enough to work in the playoffs.

[apalisoc_9]

Dedmon/Lee are solid rollers, and while LMA/Gasol aren't good at it you can utilize them in the high post ala Duncan or just have them on the perimeter. Kawhi has shown a growing ability to penetrate and kick out over the season, so hopefully he works on that further in the off season. The offense of the past two years was built strictly to combat the Dubs, and clearly it hasn't taken into account that other teams can easily game plan to stop it. There needs to be more fluidity and unpredictability to make it good enough to work in the playoffs.

Lee is a solid Rollee but hes.mever going to play 20+ minutes. Dedman Rolls to the basket but he doesn't have the gravity that opens up opportunities for the ball handler.

- Gasol is a brilliant Hand-off player and a passer, but hos rolls are pretty mediocre. He doesn't have the right timing most of the tielme.

- Aldridhe never rolls.

- Utilizing a player in the high post to generate ball movement requires aggrssive rim attackers and a defense that will respect both the Guard and the Perimter guy. The only combination we have for that is Leonard-Gasol.

You're never going to be able to change the offensive system with this personel. You need another big man and another dymamic Guard.

For now, Leonard and Parker needs to continue attacking the pick and roll.

The problem is, when the ball swings...The only two guys that can attack a closeout is Parker and Leonard. They dont play together all the time, and for the right reasons...

[Robz4000]

Lee is a solid Rollee but hes.mever going to play 20+ minutes. Dedman Rolls to the basket but he doesn't have the gravity that opens up opportunities for the ball handler.

- Gasol is a brilliant Hand-off player and a passer, but hos rolls are pretty mediocre. He doesn't have the right timing most of the tielme.

- Aldridhe never rolls.

- Utilizing a player in the high post to generate ball movement requires aggrssive rim attackers and a defense that will respect both the Guard and the Perimter guy. The only combination we have for that is Leonard-Gasol.

You're never going to be able to change the offensive system with this personel. You need another big man and another dymamic Guard.

For now, Leonard and Parker needs to continue attacking the pick and roll.

The problem is, when the ball swings...The only two guys that can attack a closeout is Parker and Leonard. They dont play together all the time, and for the right reasons...

That's why we need to see more minutes for Murray/Bertans. Murray is that guard that teams will need to respect attacking the rim while Bertans can roll/slash/pop/etc. Teams would also have to respect LMA/Gasol on the perimeter since they can knock down outside shots; they'd keep the opposing defense honest opening things up for Kawhi/Parker/Murray alongside Bertans being a threat to shoot or drive.

[ceperez]

I blame Messina. Ever since he came in, we lost all ball movement.

[sasaint]

I blame Messina. Ever since he came in, we lost all ball movement.

I blame LMA. We went to an iso-heavy offense to accommodate him. He is a black hole with a low BBIQ and no passing skill.

[DPG21920]

Always believed that if you have a shot at the WCF, you always have a shot.

Gotta roll the dice. So many things happen in the playoffs.

One Historic Spurs game in Golden State in the first two games might be enough. Who knows. Maybe Durant is bad for GSW. Maybe Mike Brown has a megative affect.

I agree. Plus injuries. Injuries happen as we have seen with Curry and Durant. Lot's of variables. If you are a team with a ceiling of playing equaling a trip to a conference finals, you don't tamper too much IMO.

[DPG21920]

It's not changing now as we all know. SA is getting good looks even vs a MEM defense that is very solid. The Spurs simply have to hit, especially from 3. In this offense, like they have done all season to the tune of the best 3PT% in the league, the have to hit a high percentage of 3's to make up for the other deficiencies.

Luckily the offense is still manufacturing those looks. Just have to hit now.

[sasaint]

They don't need to be an ISO offense to utilize him, nor does he need to be a great passer. They just need to use him as a spot up shooter more and get him to be a bit more of a roller. The entire team this season has a bad habit if standing around doing nothing on the offensive end; it's disgusting. Even if they come back with the same team next year that bad habit can't continue.

You are right about all the inert bodies this season. But you are mistaken about LMA. He always wants to shoot that damn fadeaway jumper even against shorter guys on switches! He avoids contact as if the entire defensive team has leprosy. And we do need him to be at least a decent passer. Now he is simply a black hole. When he touches the ball, he is going to shoot it if at all possible before passing. And then it is just a pass back out to whoever fed him the ball. When the ball goes to LMA it sticks. You can't include him in the offense if you want a passing game.

[MaNu4Tres]

You are right about all the inert bodies this season. But you are mistaken about LMA. He always wants to shoot that damn fadeaway jumper even against shorter guys on switches! He avoids contact as if the entire defensive team has leprosy. And we do need him to be at least a decent passer. Now he is simply a black hole. When he touches the ball, he is going to shoot it if at all possible before passing. And then it is just a pass back out to whoever fed him the ball. When the ball goes to LMA it sticks. You can't include him in the offense if you want a passing game.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, when Aldridge has the ball, the only option that comes out of it is an Aldridge tough 2.

He can't get by his man, and can't attract weakside defenders and even if he does attract a trap or a double team (which is rare), he's a terrible passer.

If you want to run a great offense, your second option has to be a dual threat with the ball, either scoring or creating an easier shot for someone else. Aldridge doesn't do that. He's like the new age Vin Baker -- not the 24 year old Vin Baker, but the 30 year old Vin Baker. Aldridge is on his same path of regression with the same type of overrated limited offensive skill-set.

That's why I prefer Murray over Patty even right now ( I know it won't happen ever), but I'd give it a look if I was the coach. Why? Murray is a dual threat. He's not an Eddie House. Plus, he has an edge over Mills defensively. Conley is eating this series...

[sasaint]

I've been saying it for 2 years now, when Aldridge has the ball, the only option that comes out of it is an Aldridge tough 2.

He can't get by his man, and can't attract weakside defenders and even if he does attract a trap or a double team (which is rare), he's a terrible passer.

If you want to run a great offense, your second option has to be a dual threat with the ball, either scoring or creating an easier shot for someone else. Aldridge doesn't do that. He's like the new age Vin Baker.

That's why I prefer Murray over Patty even right now ( I know it won't happen ever), but I'd give it a look if I was the coach. Why? Murray is a dual threat. He's not an Eddie House. Plus, he has an edge over Mills defensively. Conley is eating this series...

:toast I have been calling for Pop to give the keys to Murray since last fall and use Tony on the second unit and as Dijon's Speedy Claxton security blanket. In today's NBA we probably would have sacrificed some wins and ended up with a lower seed, but Murray would be game-ready at this point. Tony and Patty will not cut it - especially PAIRED as they were in crunch time of game 4. SMH! Murray right now may be a good gamble - even though you are right, Pop would never do it.

[apalisoc_9]

I've been saying it for 2 years now, when Aldridge has the ball, the only option that comes out of it is an Aldridge tough 2.

He can't get by his man, and can't attract weakside defenders and even if he does attract a trap or a double team (which is rare), he's a terrible passer.

If you want to run a great offense, your second option has to be a dual threat with the ball, either scoring or creating an easier shot for someone else. Aldridge doesn't do that. He's like the new age Vin Baker -- not the 24 year old Vin Baker, but the 30 year old Vin Baker. Aldridge is on his same path of regression with the same type of overrated limited offensive skill-set.

That's why I prefer Murray over Patty even right now ( I know it won't happen ever), but I'd give it a look if I was the coach. Why? Murray is a dual threat. He's not an Eddie House. Plus, he has an edge over Mills defensively. Conley is eating this series...

Imo, there's a slight remedy to Aldridge shitty shot attempts and that's quick possessions on his shots. Statistically speaking, if the spurs can defend they can afford to have him take those shots but its got to be fast trigger.

The longer the possession, the worse it is for the spurs as far as averaging between defenses and offenses. But thats also not happening.

[MaNu4Tres]

Imo, there's a slight remedy to Aldridge shitty shot attempts and that's quick possessions on his shots. Statistically speaking, if the spurs can defend they can afford to have him take those shots but its got to be fast trigger.

The longer the possession, the worse it is for the spurs as far as averaging between defenses and offenses. But thats also not happening.

I personally want to see more double screens for Kawhi and TP higher than usual to get both players going downhill a little bit more to put some pressure on the weakside defenders. I have yet to see this adjustment, but I'd like to see it.

[coachmac87]

What made Aldridge so good was his LETHAL midrange jumper..especially the turnaround over his left shoulder. He's ALWAYS been that player. He's never been anything else..PERIOD. He never could put the ball on the floor or create for others..


Things just got weird when the "original plan" in Aldridge eyes and even the Spurs didn't go like they thought when Parker fell off the map and Kawhi became a top MVP candidate over night..Aldridge is a rythym player who works outside in...meaning if his jumper falls early he gets confident on the block etc..

Aldridge needs a PG...and as we know Spurs don't have one.,but anybo

[apalisoc_9]

What made Aldridge so good was his LETHAL midrange jumper..especially the turnaround over his left shoulder. He's ALWAYS been that player. He's never been anything else..PERIOD. He never could put the ball on the floor or create for others..


Things just got weird when the "original plan" in Aldridge eyes and even the Spurs didn't go like they thought when Parker fell off the map and Kawhi became a top MVP candidate over night..Aldridge is a rythym player who works outside in...meaning if his jumper falls early he gets confident on the block etc..

Aldridge needs a PG...and as we know Spurs don't have one.,but anybo

Another terrible analysis. The delusion of some idiots to try to talk ball in meaningful manner. Stick to shitty podcast and vanilla takes like the rest pf the casuals. You clearly havent learned enough basketball to talk beyond hype and vanilla talk.

[coachmac87]

Another terrible analysis. The delusion of some idiots to try to talk ball in meaningful manner. Stick to shitty podcast and vanilla takes like the rest pf the casuals. You clearly havent learned enough basketball to talk beyond hype and vanilla talk.


Please point out where I'm wrong or you disagree?

Actually don't lol..

How bout you go create another shitty thread or beg to be bolded. Or maybe you can continue searching for your purpose in life and stop being an internet nerd with fake friends..

[apalisoc_9]

Please point out where I'm wrong or you disagree?

Actually don't lol..

How bout you go create another shitty thread or beg to be bolded. Or maybe you can continue searching for your purpose in life and stop being an internet nerd with fake friends..

:lmao

Triggered

[szkorhetz]

I blame LMA. We went to an iso-heavy offense to accommodate him. He is a black hole with a low BBIQ and no passing skill.
We have an ISO offense because of Kawhi's emergence...

[BatManu20]

Too many people down on this team imo. We would have a really good chance (they'd likely be favorites) to win a championship this season if not for one Super-Team in Golden State. It sucks that they're so good cause that's really the only thing stopping us imo. I think we beat Memphis, beat Houston in a really competitive series, and then would beat the Cavs in 6 tbh, as we're a bad matchup for them. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get the chance.

That said, we can still improve, and I'm sure RC will cook something up, or at least try really hard to. Don't see CP3 coming here unfortunately though. He's made it pretty clear he wants to stay in LA.

[coachmac87]

:lmao

Triggered


Oh you can dish the heat but you can't take it?

Somebody bold this pussy so he can feel like he's accomplished..

[coachmac87]

Too many people down on this team imo. We would have a really good chance (they'd likely be favorites) to win a championship this season if not for one Super-Team in Golden State. It sucks that they're so good cause that's really the only thing stopping us imo. I think we'd beat the Cavs in 6 tbh, as we're a bad matchup for them. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get the chance.


+1,000,000

[ceperez]

Too many people down on this team imo. We would have a really good chance (they'd likely be favorites) to win a championship this season if not for one Super-Team in Golden State. It sucks that they're so good cause that's really the only thing stopping us imo. I think we beat Memphis, beat Houston in a really competitive series, and then would beat the Cavs in 6 tbh, as we're a bad matchup for them. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get the chance.

That said, we can still improve, and I'm sure RC will cook something up, or at least try really hard to. Don't see CP3 coming here unfortunately though. He's made it pretty clear he wants to stay in LA.

This is desperation time! Teams have figured out how to defend against the Spurs! What makes it worse, is that the current offense is so predictable!

The guy who made the offense unpredictable (that's Manu) is too old to be on the court!

The guy who used to be able to create his own offense (that's Parker) doesn't have the legs underhim to make the shots he usually makes.

Aldridge has always been a one dimensional player and now at he's too old to learn new tricks.

Leonard is playing out of his mind, but one allstar player isn't going to beat a team with two or four all-star players. Spurs are like the Indiana Pacers with Paul George or the Thunder with Westbrook. Just one all star with a much of old role players.

[sasaint]

We have an ISO offense because of Kawhi's emergence...

Just the other way around. Kawhi's "emergence" is due, in large part, to his being forced into a point forward role by the offense. No smart team adopts antiquated iso-offense over the more efficient ball-movement game the Spurs formerly played, out of preference. They were forced into it. LMA is worthless in a ball-movement offense. He has a low BBIQ and no passing skill. When the ball reaches him, it sticks. He will either shoot or turn the ball over.

[MaNu4Tres]

What made Aldridge so good was his LETHAL midrange jumper..especially the turnaround over his left shoulder. He's ALWAYS been that player. He's never been anything else..PERIOD. He never could put the ball on the floor or create for others..


Things just got weird when the "original plan" in Aldridge eyes and even the Spurs didn't go like they thought when Parker fell off the map and Kawhi became a top MVP candidate over night..Aldridge is a rythym player who works outside in...meaning if his jumper falls early he gets confident on the block etc..

Aldridge needs a PG...and as we know Spurs don't have one.,but anybo

Well you didn't watch much basketball of him because you're wrong.

In Portland, yes Aldridge had a great mid-range game, but he had a strong rebuttal to that. He was able to put pressure at the rim by being able to put the ball on the floor when his man would converge and close out hard on his mid-range opportunities. This aspect made the weakside defensive help a lot more than we have seen the past two years. And when the weakside D did have to rotate over to contest at the rim, he was athletic enough to finish OVER them or make the simple pass to a teammate who was open.

He was also more demonstrative in his post moves as he'd make moves that put pressure at the rim. This is when he would come into training camp IN shape and was more athletic or lighter on his feet.

Now he's a lumbering version of himself and can't move to certain spots with his post moves as quickly-- which makes his post moves very easy to defend. He also can't make a strong move around his man when they close out or converge on him on the perimeter.

So yes you are wrong, he hasn't ALWAYS been this player.

[coachmac87]

Well you didn't watch much basketball of him because you're wrong.

In Portland, yes Aldridge had a great mid-range game, but he had a strong rebuttal to that. He was able to put pressure at the rim by being able to put the ball on the floor when his man would converge and close out hard on his mid-range opportunities. This aspect made the weakside defensive help a lot more than we have seen the past two years. And when the weakside D did have to rotate over to contest at the rim, he was athletic enough to finish OVER them or make the simple pass to a teammate who was open.

He was also more demonstrative in his post moves as he'd make moves that put pressure at the rim. This is when he would come into training camp IN shape and was more athletic or lighter on his feet.

Now he's a lumbering version of himself and can't move to certain spots with his post moves as quickly-- which makes his post moves very easy to defend. He also can't make a strong move around his man when they close out or converge on him on the perimeter.

So yes you are wrong, he hasn't ALWAYS been this player.


Oh he's regressed for sure. He's never been a guy to put the ball on the ground and made consistent plays for others..he was a black hole then just like he is now. He doesn't rebound at the same rate anymore either..his defense has improved as we know but everything else about his game has regressed..especially his jumper.

I think his biggest issue or adjustment which he's acknowledged himself is he's been unsure when to let it fly or get a good to great look..the culture and system is totally different then in Portland..

Most thought LMA was a great fit at the signing because they assumed the "beautiful game" system would get him a lot of easy looks and with him being arguably one of the best shooting bigs he'd capitalize on the great looks..except like I said before things changed when Kawhi became an MVP caliber player and his offensive game went to another level..and the regress of others (Diaw, Manu, Parker, Duncan) who were all important pieces in the Spurs system.

[coachmac87]

Well you didn't watch much basketball of him because you're wrong.

In Portland, yes Aldridge had a great mid-range game, but he had a strong rebuttal to that. He was able to put pressure at the rim by being able to put the ball on the floor when his man would converge and close out hard on his mid-range opportunities. This aspect made the weakside defensive help a lot more than we have seen the past two years. And when the weakside D did have to rotate over to contest at the rim, he was athletic enough to finish OVER them or make the simple pass to a teammate who was open.

He was also more demonstrative in his post moves as he'd make moves that put pressure at the rim. This is when he would come into training camp IN shape and was more athletic or lighter on his feet.

Now he's a lumbering version of himself and can't move to certain spots with his post moves as quickly-- which makes his post moves very easy to defend. He also can't make a strong move around his man when they close out or converge on him on the perimeter.

So yes you are wrong, he hasn't ALWAYS been this player.


Oh he's regressed for sure. He's never been a guy to put the ball on the ground and made consistent plays for others..he was a black hole then just like he is now. He doesn't rebound at the same rate anymore either..his defense has improved as we know but everything else about his game has regressed..especially his bread and butter jumper.

I think his biggest issue or adjustment which he's acknowledged himself is he's been unsure when to let it fly or get a good to great look..the culture and system is totally different then in Portland..

[MaNu4Tres]

Oh he's regressed for sure. He's never been a guy to put the ball on the ground and made consistent plays for others..he was a black hole then just like he is now. He doesn't rebound at the same rate anymore either..his defense has improved as we know but everything else about his game has regressed..especially his bread and butter jumper.

I think his biggest issue or adjustment which he's acknowledged himself is he's been unsure when to let it fly or get a good to great look..the culture and system is totally different then in Portland..

I don't think you understand what I meant. He was never a perimeter player and put the ball on the ground like a wing and created. But he did put the ball on the ground more often than he does now when his man would converge and close out on his potential mid-range attempts. He had a very nice overall game where he had counters to different defensive looks -- including putting the ball on the ground from 12-15 out.. Now he's very limited and doesn't have the the counters he once had.

[coachmac87]

I don't think you understand what I meant. He was never a perimeter player and put the ball on the ground like a wing and created. But he did put the ball on the ground more often than he does now when his man would converge and close out on his potential mid-range attempts. He had a very nice overall game where he had counters to different defensive looks -- including putting the ball on the ground from 12-15 out.. Now he's very limited and doesn't have the the counters he once had.

So you're telling me LMA was more of a post guy and wasn't known as a midrange shooting big?? Cmon now LMA has made his name in this league on his shooting ability..

Why do you think he was labeled soft coming in? Because he preferred shooting turn around jumpers and popping not rolling or banging in the paint

[coachmac87]

All I said was he's always been a shooting big with extreme limited playmaking skills for others and yes that included the post.

And putting the ball on the floor has never been a term for post play....

[apalisoc_9]

I don't think you understand what I meant. He was never a perimeter player and put the ball on the ground like a wing and created. But he did put the ball on the ground more often than he does now when his man would converge and close out on his potential mid-range attempts. He had a very nice overall game where he had counters to different defensive looks -- including putting the ball on the ground from 12-15 out.. Now he's very limited and doesn't have the the counters he once had.

I think it's a very general mistake by most NBA fans. I don't think people in general realize how much a simple counter skill, despite being used at low %, can open up someone's game.

Like. .A simple straight drive for a 3 and D player etc.

Sure they're not "known" for it. But it completely diversifies their game.

[Fireball]

I am not a happy camper, but I think we will win against the grizzlies and even sneak by Houston ... but then its over. get rid of Mills, Aldridge, Simmons ... start Murray over Parker ... I do not know if I want to dump Danny though

[SAGirl]

I am not a happy camper, but I think we will win against the grizzlies and even sneak by Houston ... but then its over. get rid of Mills, Aldridge, Simmons ... start Murray over Parker ... I do not know if I want to dump Danny though
I have no problem with that. I even want Murray to play right now!
I am not a happy camper either.
I think Kawhi deserves a better coaching job from Pop and that his rigid schemes and lack of flexibility to adapt and play the guys that are having a good series is costing this team a whole lot.

[Spurs9]

So basically rebuild our team around Murrary/Bertans/Kawhi.

[MultiTroll]

So basically rebuild our team around Murrary/Bertans/Kawhi.
Reload, yes.
Stop giving fat contracts to the undeserved.
If some of them want to come back at reasonable rates, fine.

[TheGreatYacht]

Reload, yes.
Stop giving fat contracts to the undeserved.
If some of them want to come back at reasonable rates, fine.
Agreed. Stop giving contracts to unloyal Argies that would've played for Philly if you didn't match their offer

[cjw]

Spending 14 million on Manu was stupid should have let him be a sixer

It didn't matter if Manu made $14mm or $3mm based on how the cap math worked last summer. Though would have been awesome to make his deal non-guaranteed in a second year after until after FA started to - if he decided to retire - be used as a trade chip that could bring in salary and immediately be released.

[SAGirl]

I don't know this guys tweeting, but further confirmation Hanga has most definitely NBA aspirations:
Hanga rejected an extension offer from Baskonia:

857650852806500352

[playbonner15]

Sorry I forgot we have an offseason thread. Made a new thread for Paul George

[SAGirl]

"Pop has never focused our organization solely on, 'We've got to come up with the perfect team tonight.' He's always allowed us to plan. He's always been like, 'This is what's best for our team now. But let's not compromise what's best for the organization in the future.' So we live in that state all the time."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19154060/nba-san-antonio-spurs-miss-beat-losing-tim-duncan
I think that statement is encouraging in terms of hoping roleplayers don't get overpaid this summer and compromise flexibility moving forward.

[SAGirl]

Bump.

Since I was asked, here's a more-exact breakdown of what signing Paul would entail. According to this article by USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/07/07/nba-salary-cap-projections-lebron-james/86808464/), the cap is projected to be $102 Million and the max for a player with 10 or more years of experience is $33.5 Million. The Spurs won't have more than like $13 Million in cap space this summer naturally, but they could create quite a bit more by dumping Parker and Gasol and by letting everyone but Simmons (because they're really not saving money but not tendering him) walk.

This is what they'd be looking at:



Name
2017-18


LaMarcus Aldridge
$21,461,010


Kawhi Leonard
$18,868,625


Danny Green
$10,000,000


Tim Duncan (stretched)
$1,881,250


Kyle Anderson
$2,151,704


Dejounte Murray
$1,312,611


Livio Jean-Charles (waived)
$1,035,200


Jonathan Simmons (QO)
$1,676,735


Davis Bertans
$1,312,611


Bryn Forbes
$1,312,611


First-Rounder
$1,697,225


Milutinov
$1,832,075


Roster Charge
$815,615


Roster Charge
$815,615






Calculated Total
$66,172,887


Projected Cap
$102,000,000


Projected Cap Space
$35,827,113


Cap Space After Paul
$2,327,113



So they'd have enough money to maybe since someone half-decent and still have the room MLE, which due to the new CBA will be about the size of the current MLE. But they'd have a lot of holes, as this roster breakdown shows:

Paul, Murray
Green, Simmons, Forbes
Leonard, Anderson
Aldridge, Bertans
Milutinov

You'd have to hope Lee would come back for one of those two salary slots, while they could get a guard to take the other. Stashing Nikola for another year and moving on from Simmons would make like another $1.5 Million, which may or may not make a difference. But I think the key will be cheap labor, which is why I wouldn't really even think of stashing the pick. Ideally, you sign some guys then S&T Simmons for another rotation player, but that's a shit-ton of trading away for one summer.

tl;dr: It's possible to get Paul/Lowry/Hill depending on how easy it would be to move Pau and Tony, and how willing they are to start over (relatively speaking) for a third summer in a row. If Paul or Lowry were willing to give up enough money to have the Spurs re-sign Dedmon, that would go a long way toward making the move worth it.

Lowry, Murray, min guy, rookie
Green, cheap guard, Forbes
Leonard, Simmons, pick
Aldridge, Bertans, Anderson
Dedmon, Lee, Milutinov, rookie

Could see that as the basis for a contending roster.

I'd have to reconsider the fact that as we have always known Tony isn't getting traded.
HOwever, I think up to the current moment Pau is not necessarily providing value as 15 mill is way too much for a bench player who is at around 16 or so minutes in the first round of the playoffs and looking awful at times, but maybe PATFO is fine with that because it's only an additional season with this one is already coming to a close. When both him and Tony's contracts expire is when they likely make their move. That times with Anderson and Bertans becoming FA and maybe with LJC and Tim's contracts getting cleared?

So, that leads me to believe their next move is scheduled for 2018, with this offseason being quiet. What may not allow it to be completely marginal is the fact they need to address the SG spot somehow just bc it's inescapable with Manu ? unknown though I think he retires, and Simmons a FA... as well as Mills.

If they were to make a move that is not just reupping Simmons and Mills, I'd like for that player to substitute for Pau... but that's just a personal wish I guess.

Frankly sometimes I think they just reup Simmons and Mills, and call it an offseason... but it's just really uncertain bc the team does have issues.

[objective]

Might be a Longshot, but there's always the possibility of Dangubic being brought over.

His numbers won't wow you, but he's been a starting wing on a good euro team for awhile now, and his best attributes, perimeter defense and athletic finishing, would be fine for the end of the roster.

I think he's improved this year, but need to watch more to be sure if it's real or a small sample size of the games I watched. He *looked* like he was more comfortable as a ball handler in the pick and roll, and generally more assertive.

He still isn't a good 3 point shooter, and struggles guarding the post strength wise, but how much could he be making in Serbia? An NBA minimum or maybe even the extra roster spot flex salary might be good enough.

You want a guy to come in and guard ball handlers full court, switch between smaller wings, and play with athleticism, he's as good as most any summer league pick up to be and end of roster guy.

[CGD]

I tend to agree that this will be a modest 2017 off-season, though, I can see someone like Reddick coming here. No one should hold their breaths on Paul.

Spurs do have great value contracts though. I'd be curious to see if they flip them for an assets before it's too late.

[SAGirl]

I tend to agree that this will be a modest 2017 off-season, though, I can see someone like Reddick coming here. No one should hold their breaths on Paul.

Spurs do have great value contracts though. I'd be curious to see if they flip them for an assets before it's too late.
The story of CoJo and other recent younger players that have played for the Spurs sort of tells me that Pop and RC likes to hold on to them while they are in their initial cheap contracts and let them develop. I think they value depth above all and Pop relies on those players through the season a lot. They may even want to hold on to them after, but even if they don't they value the depth they provide while they are in the team. I doubt any of those younger/cheaper contracts are traded.
..
and actually just thinking about it right now... if they were to make a move for someone, say Pau opts out (unlikely but just saying hypothetical)... they would still need the cheap contracts to round out the roster.

[SAGirl]

It seems like Bird resigning was bc he didn't want to oversee a rebuild and Paul George is likely getting traded.
He wants LA and Spurs don't have the assets to get him.. (tradeable assets we are talking about here, not ridiculous ones)... anyways just thought I threw his name out there.

[Mr. Body]

It seems like Bird resigning was bc he didn't want to oversee a rebuild and Paul George is likely getting traded.
He wants LA and Spurs don't have the assets to get him.. (tradeable assets we are talking about here, not ridiculous ones)... anyways just thought I threw his name out there.

I don't know why we traded him in the first place.

[CGD]

The story of CoJo and other recent younger players that have played for the Spurs sort of tells me that Pop and RC likes to hold on to them while they are in their initial cheap contracts and let them develop. I think they value depth above all and Pop relies on those players through the season a lot. They may even want to hold on to them after, but even if they don't they value the depth they provide while they are in the team. I doubt any of those younger/cheaper contracts are traded.
..
and actually just thinking about it right now... if they were to make a move for someone, say Pau opts out (unlikely but just saying hypothetical)... they would still need the cheap contracts to round out the roster.

Agree on the need to have good value contracts to round out depth, but there is a timeline for those pieces. Near the end of that cycle, the team will have to decide to either pay fair market deals (e.g., Danny, in his day Bonner, etc.) or move on a replace them with peices earlier in the timeline (e.g., Bertans, Forbes, maybe Hanga next year).

Players like Patty, Kyle, and Jonathan have been good for the team, but for distinct and valid reasons may not get new contracts. Take Kyle, who is a RFA next summer and has now had several years to develop with the team. Do the Spurs really want to match anything north of 7M for him even though that may be a "fair market" deal? If you're like me, who is not so sure, why not flip him now when his value is highest for a player/pick that would be earlier in their role player lifecycle?

[Snaq O'Meal]

I don't know why we traded him in the first place.

But it'll be great to get him back. This place will explode if that happens.

[SAGirl]

Agree on the need to have good value contracts to round out depth, but there is a timeline for those pieces. Near the end of that cycle, the team will have to decide to either pay fair market deals (e.g., Danny, in his day Bonner, etc.) or move on a replace them with peices earlier in the timeline (e.g., Bertans, Forbes, maybe Hanga next year).

Players like Patty, Kyle, and Jonathan have been good for the team, but for distinct and valid reasons may not get new contracts. Take Kyle, who is a RFA next summer and has now had several years to develop with the team. Do the Spurs really want to match anything north of 7M for him even though that may be a "fair market" deal? If you're like me, who is not so sure, why not flip him now when his value is highest for a player/pick that would be earlier in their role player lifecycle?
Bc he likely only yields in exchange IMO an unplayable scrub or an "asset" you will never see in the NBA ever. Meanitime, he's played over 1000 minutes the past two seasons and has been healthy for all of them and is a good character "kid." He's outperformed a 1 million rook deal so he's given value. It's unlikely you get much in a trade for him bc he's precisely going to be a FA anyways and he is not a high upside guy. You likely get back for him a low 2nd round pick that doesn't yield an NBA player (odds are against it), someone Spurs stash and you will never see ever, or someone of that nature. Meantime you have a hole to fill and have to find it somewhere so you still have to pay somebody. I think for that reason Spurs would rather have the player for an additional season on the cheap than basically no playable body in the immediate present. They struggled to replace even CoJos production for example and got lucky with Murray.

I wouldn't dislike at all if he was traded for a player in a similar situation (in the 3rd season of his rook deal, if he was a guard). If he's let go bc they sign someone else that's fine. I just think they are happy with his production and would rather have the player while he's in this small deal than no one.

I think it would be different if some team was calling about him like Bird who wanted George Hill IMO and they could really covert him into a real asset at another spot or something, but just to trade him bc his contract is expiring next season? nah.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'd trade Kyle for an early 2nd ( Orlando) and target Wesley Iwundu or Jordan Bell ( if Spurs don't use the 29th on Jordan).

I'd then move Bertans to the back up SF to fill in SF minutes behind Kawhi ( he has the skillset) and then let Hanga, Iwundu, Simmons (1 +1 deal) compete for minutes at the SG position.

Flipping Anderson for a new rookie to replenish the system would be a win as Kyle's production can easily be replicated or improved on by Bertans, Simmons, Hanga, Iwundu options in 17'-18'. Spurs then get a valuable piece to develop the next 3-4 years in Iwundu for dirt cheap.

If Anderson showed consistency and significant improvement year after year the past 3 years, I'd feel different about Kyle -- but the guy just has a very limited ceiling as we've seen with his plateau over the past 3 years.

[ducks]

Clippers are 1st NBA team ever to blow a playoffs series lead in 5 straight years

[ducks]

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/4/30/15495160/clippers-curse-nba-playoffs-blown-lead?yptr=yahoo

[TheDoctor]

Stop w/ the spamming ducks. They paying you for those clicks huh?

[Darius Bieber]

Since this series will be a Rockets sweep, should pick up the conversation now.

[Robz4000]

If the same shit happens in game 2 it would be for the best if the Spurs were swept. No way Pop keeps the status quo, right?...:depressed

[RD2191]

I don't even care what happens, just get LMA and Danny Green the fuck off of this team.

[100%duncan]

LMA gone= win

[objective]

If the same shit happens in game 2 it would be for the best if the Spurs were swept. No way Pop keeps the status quo, right?...:depressed

Pop might double down if he's too embarrassed. Might need more Parker and Pau and Lee, getting the vets more reps in the season so they'll be fine tuned for the playoffs.

[Robz4000]

Would be best to completely rebuild the big man rotation as well. Only keep Bertans.

[FkLA]

Ive seen the light. Isolation dependent teams won't win in this era. I thought Kawhi's individual greatness would give them a shot but MJ himself wouldn't win in today's NBA. Guys like midnightpulp are right, the three point shot is just too much to overcome. I don't think its Kawhi's game being antiquated as much as it is the Spurs team in general being antiquated.

A couple guys that can penetrate, 4 shooters at all times, and a mobile, athletic center who can switch and is a lob threat is the new blueprint. Personnel wise, the Spurs are way behind the curve, unfortunately.

[DAF86]

This roster needs a major overhaul. Playing two stiff bigs lineups just isn't going to work anymore. Untill they fix that shit, they will be a cute little regular season team.

Bertans needs to be a starter next season, and we need to hire another stretch 4 guy just incase Davis doesn't pan out.

[Darius Bieber]

Troll posting aside, the new era of basketball is threes. Face it. Spurs NEED to get Reddick this offseason, and line up the perimeter with three point threats. Run with Bertans, Mills, Green, Reddick on the perimeter and just chuck it up, fuck it

[DAF86]

Also, draft wings, wings, wings and more wings. Then go out and sign wing free agents. Then go and look for wings on the d-league.

[HarlemHeat37]

There won't really be an easy fix, regardless..realistically, they need better production everywhere other than Kawhi, but it isn't possible to blow up the entire rotation..

While it's true that the Spurs need to alter their approach and fix the frontcourt, you can't win in today's NBA without a high-level PG(Houston being the only exception, but Harden is essentially their PG, since Beverley is a small 2-guard)..they also need more 2-way wings, which has been the case for years..

[313]

Ive seen the light. Isolation dependent teams won't win in this era. I thought Kawhi's individual greatness would give them a shot but MJ himself wouldn't win in today's NBA. Guys like midnightpulp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5430) are right, the three point shot is just too much to overcome. I don't think its Kawhi's game being antiquated as much as it is the Spurs team in general being antiquated.

A couple guys that can penetrate, 4 shooters at all times, and a mobile, athletic center who can switch and is a lob threat is the new blueprint. Personnel wise, the Spurs are way behind the curve, unfortunately.And at the center of all those shooters, you need someone like Harden, Curry, Draymond, Lebron to facilitate. Although Kawhi has shown flashes of being a playmaker, him passing to a guy out of post up is a lot more antiquated than these PnR Maestros on top teams. That's where the "antiquated" comes in imo. Kawhi is still great, though. Hope they figure out a way to build around him before it's too late.

[UZER]

If the same shit happens in game 2 it would be for the best if the Spurs were swept. No way Pop keeps the status quo, right?...:depressed

Pop was hamming it up in the post game press conference. At this rate, he might be going on a stand up comedy tour by the end of the series if they get swept.

[FkLA]

And at the center of all those shooters, you need someone like Harden, Curry, Draymond, Lebron to facilitate. Although Kawhi has shown flashes of being a playmaker, him passing to a guy out of post up is a lot more antiquated than these PnR Maestros on top teams. That's where the "antiquated" comes in imo. Kawhi is still great, though. Hope they figure out a way to build around him before it's too late.

Yep. I think Kawhi can help shoulder some of that facilitator load, I think he'll be a 5 APG guy next season but he won't ever be elite at it. Need someone else. His dominance in isolations could still be huge during late game situations/3PT shooting droughts but it can't be the basis of an offense in this era.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs simply don't have good shot creators ( they have a really good one, but he has a rookie disease and is glued to the bench because its not fair yet) .

Everyone outside of Kawhi is constantly being stonewalled by their man when they make any move towards the rim. When they are being stone walled by their own defender, it's depressing. Passes are being made to guarded players. It means the weakside defense doesn't have to work or move or bend. That is why we are seeing so many last second grenades being thrown up from Anderson, Manu, Patty, Green. We are so fortunate Parker has been decent to even still be in this series. Fact of the matter is, this is a perimeter oriented league. Patty can't get off anything, unless he cheats the D in transition, Manu is done, Anderson was crap tonight, Green looks like a PE All Star when he has to try to make a move. Even for the bigs, Aldridge has been a mess all year, he can't get by his guy or put any pressure at the rim with any moves. He's as predictable as they come on offense.

[timtonymanu]

Ive seen the light. Isolation dependent teams won't win in this era. I thought Kawhi's individual greatness would give them a shot but MJ himself wouldn't win in today's NBA. Guys like midnightpulp are right, the three point shot is just too much to overcome. I don't think its Kawhi's game being antiquated as much as it is the Spurs team in general being antiquated.

A couple guys that can penetrate, 4 shooters at all times, and a mobile, athletic center who can switch and is a lob threat is the new blueprint. Personnel wise, the Spurs are way behind the curve, unfortunately.

What's sad is that the Spurs were ahead of the curve just 3 years ago but let all that go to sign a soft choking big man

[BackHome]

Damn we need guys who can rebound and dribble the ball how hard is it to fine them?

Green Gone -Every year he has gotten worse he puts more of a burden on Kawhi as he can't dribble a ball for the life of him
Soft Ridge- Come On Man you should be taking Timmy place but your playing like a Bench player...GONE.
Simmon - You will be better off on another team..........FLY...
Manu - My favorite player but father time always gets his man
Deadman -????????????????????????????????????????????????
Pau - Read Manu...............


Keep Players who Play with Passion and show up.
Mills
Lee

[MaNu4Tres]

What's sad is that the Spurs were ahead of the curve just 3 years ago but let all that go to sign a soft choking big man

They had an opportunity start their progress towards the Warriors/Rockets last summer by moving LA at the 5 and utilizing their resources to find another competent 2 way wing, but they wrongly chose to utilize their resources to sign an old plodding Center who can't play or matchup with the best teams in the league. Gasol was such a terrible decision.

But he was a great matchup vs. the 7th seed though right?

[HarlemHeat37]

While I applaud how the Rockets are built, they'll obviously never win a title with that roster, tbh..

Looking at the Warriors, though, they're just a perfectly built team..obviously luck went a long way, but their team is full of 2-way players(if not 2-way, then at least not liabilities at 1 end of the floor)..they don't have to sacrifice offense for defense or vice-versa like the Spurs do..everybody can switch everything, they can play any style of play, etc..

[MaNu4Tres]

While I applaud how the Rockets are built, they'll obviously never win a title with that roster, tbh..

Looking at the Warriors, though, they're just a perfectly built team..obviously luck went a long way, but their team is full of 2-way players(if not 2-way, then at least not liabilities at 1 end of the floor)..they don't have to sacrifice offense for defense or vice-versa like the Spurs do..

Rockets are another two way wing away .. one with length. Spurs are so much further behind.

[Robz4000]

What's sad is that the Spurs were ahead of the curve just 3 years ago but let all that go to sign a soft choking big man

They let it go because that team aged and began rapidly declining. At the time signing LMA was 100% the right move but completely changing the team's offensive style to '90s ISO-ball was a big damn mistake. That is on Poo.

[Nathan89]

If we get rid of LMA the off season grade is "A+".

[FkLA]

They had an opportunity start their progress towards the Warriors/Rockets last summer by moving LA at the 5 and utilizing their resources to find another competent 2 way wing, but they wrongly chose to utilize their resources to sign an old plodding Center who can't play or matchup with the best teams in the league. Gasol was such a terrible decision.

But he was a great matchup vs. the 7th seed though right?

Just to rub salt in the wound, other than KD what other guys were available this past offseason to fill that role?

[Robz4000]

Rockets are another two way wing away .. one with length. Spurs are so much further behind.

Rockets can't play any style basketball, nor are they even close to an elite defense. Tonight's rape has more to do with the Spurs being exposed than Houston being good. They might beat the Spurs but they'll be lucky to take a game from.the Dubs unless they go ballistic from three (better than even tonight).

[DAF86]

There won't really be an easy fix, regardless..realistically, they need better production everywhere other than Kawhi, but it isn't possible to blow up the entire rotation..

While it's true that the Spurs need to alter their approach and fix the frontcourt, you can't win in today's NBA without a high-level PG(Houston being the only exception, but Harden is essentially their PG, since Beverley is a small 2-guard)..they also need more 2-way wings, which has been the case for years..

At this point, trading LA might be the quickest fix. He's damaged goods right now, so I don't know how much we could get for him.

Paul forcing a sign and trade scenario with the Clippers would be great (even with the awful contract Paul is probably going to command). If not, trading him to a desperate team for a combination of young wing/PG prospects could be good too.

At this point, I'm on the "addition by subtraction" stage with Aldridge and his mandatory low post touches. I know he's has been great on defense, but let's face it, Spurs are always going to be elite on defense as long as Pop is there.

Pau optiong out might be a blessing in desguise, and trading Tony's expiring would awesome too, but we all know that isn't going to happen so, depending on what the Spurs could get on a potential LA trade the roster could look like this:

Pipe dream:

Paul, Tony, Murray
Green, Free agent, Forbes
Kawhi, Free agent, drafted rookie
Bertans, Free agent/drafted rookie, Anderson
Dedmon, Free agent/drafted rookie, Lee

I don't know how much cap space not signing Mills, Simmons and Pau would make but it would be awesome if it was enough to sign someone like Reddick. If not, just try to get by with the MLE, vet min and rookies.

More realistic scenario:

Tony, Murray, Free agent
Green, Free agent, Forbes
Kawhi, player from the aldridge trade, drafted rookie
Bertans, player from the Aldridge trade, Anderson
Dedmon, Free agent/Pau, Lee.

In any scenario, the two bigs traditional line-up needs to go. If they don't trade Aldridge go:

Tony, Murray, Free agent
Green, Free agent, Forbes
Kawhi, Free agent, drafted rookie
Bertans, Free agent/drafted rookie, Anderson
LMA, Free agent/Pau, Lee.

On this scenario you let Dedmon go (unfortunately, 'cause he's the prototypical center you need on a successful team in today's NBA. Long, athletic and doesn't demand touches).

[timtonymanu]

They let it go because that team aged and began rapidly declining. At the time signing LMA was 100% the right move but completely changing the team's offensive style to '90s ISO-ball was a big damn mistake. That is on Poo.

Very true. The decline of Parker and Manu was evident and to this day Pop is still treating them like they're in 2007 form. Agree with Manu4tres that Gasol was just a horrible and useless signing as well. This roster was just horribly constructed since 2014 ended.

[HarlemHeat37]

Rockets are another two way wing away .. one with length. Spurs are so much further behind.

Maybe, but it would be extremely difficult to match GS if they can keep their core..

As I've been saying for years, though, the number of 2-way players they have is overwhelming, especially compared to the Spurs..

Kawhi is the only consistent 2-way player on the roster, unfortunately..Spurs' ceiling is 3, and that's only if Green is making his 3s(which just isn't a reliable option anymore) and Aldridge shows up on offense(which is rare, nowadays)..

Warriors have at least 6 players in their rotation who aren't liabilities on either end of the floor(not even including the apparent improvement of Javale McGee), which is very impressive roster-building..

[sasaint]

While I applaud how the Rockets are built, they'll obviously never win a title with that roster, tbh..

Looking at the Warriors, though, they're just a perfectly built team..obviously luck went a long way, but their team is full of 2-way players(if not 2-way, then at least not liabilities at 1 end of the floor)..they don't have to sacrifice offense for defense or vice-versa like the Spurs do..everybody can switch everything, they can play any style of play, etc..

More than luck, it was signing Curry to a very friendly deal after his ankle injury.

[Robz4000]

Very true. The decline of Parker and Manu was evident and to this day Pop is still treating them like they're in 2007 form. Agree with Manu4tres that Gasol was just a horrible and useless signing as well. This roster was just horribly constructed since 2014 ended.

Yeah, I've been against the Gasol signing from the beginning as well for the same reasons. A lot of the moves last offseason were made to keep butts in the AT&T Center (which failed) and to pretend to contend by signing names. Just hope they don't do the same this off season.

[HarlemHeat37]

More than luck, it was signing Curry to a very friendly deal after his ankle injury.

I think they also lucked out by losing Bogut in the 1st round of 2014, tbh..if he stays healthy, there's a good chance they beat the Clippers in game 7..if that was the case, maybe Mark Jackson keeps his job and they're still playing antiquated 90s ball with David Lee at PF:lol what kind of team starts David Lee in 2017?

[sasaint]

I think they also lucked out by losing Bogut in the 1st round of 2014, tbh..if he stays healthy, there's a good chance they beat the Clippers in game 7..if that was the case, maybe Mark Jackson keeps his job and they're still playing antiquated 90s ball with David Lee at PF:lol what kind of team starts David Lee in 2017?

:lmao

[apalisoc_9]

:lmao

People are making subtle comments about David Lee and Pop :lol

[MaNu4Tres]

Just to rub salt in the wound, other than KD what other guys were available this past offseason to fill that role?

For FA -- I wanted them to try to pry Harkless when POR committed to Evan Turner. James Ennis was another option that was cheaper that I wanted them to explore.

As for trade, Wilson Chandler was on the trade market. Spurs could have used the space to soak up his deal w/ other small parts included ( Kyle, rights to Nikola)

They could have traded LA to a team like Boston for Amir, Crowder and a pick. ( Crowder being that guy).

Just a few on top of my head. Not saying all these were slam dunks, but it would have been nice if the effort was there to try to go this route instead of agreeing w/ Gasol before FA even started ( not giving thought at any other option).

There's ways to get creative. You don't have to use the space for a FA, you can use it in a trade as well.

[spursistan]

I think they also lucked out by losing Bogut in the 1st round of 2014, tbh..if he stays healthy, there's a good chance they beat the Clippers in game 7..if that was the case, maybe Mark Jackson keeps his job and they're still playing antiquated 90s ball with David Lee at PF:lol what kind of team starts David Lee in 2017?


:lmao...

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't want a big name in return for Aldridge, tbh, not that the Spurs would get one, anyways..I wouldn't expect major value, at this point, his stock is pretty low, especially if he doesn't step up in this series in a relatively favorable matchup..

I wonder if a team with limited assets like the Nets would still value his name..I'd take a RHJ/Levert/Booker package for him, for instance(sounds underwhelming, but I think the Spurs would benefit from just getting rid of him, similar to Jefferson)..

[DAF86]

I don't want a big name in return for Aldridge, tbh, not that the Spurs would get one, anyways..I wouldn't expect major value, at this point, his stock is pretty low, especially if he doesn't step up in this series in a relatively favorable matchup..

I wonder if a team with limited assets like the Nets would still value his name..I'd take a RHJ/Levert/Booker package for him, for instance(sounds underwhelming, but I think the Spurs would benefit from just getting rid of him, similar to Jefferson)..

Remember when I said exactly this during the regular season and you laughed at me son? :(

[HarlemHeat37]

Remember when I said exactly this during the regular season and you laughed at me son? :(

Maybe..I still had hope for Aldridge's offense to turn around, never thought it would get this bad..

He had a great defensive season, tbh..too bad the Spurs need him to be a star, not a role player..

[spursistan]

They should have pulled the trigger if they had an enticing offer last summer after those rumors emerged..Agree with DAF: we are at "addition by subtraction" stage with Aldridge..Any major roster re-configuration will have to start by moving him.

Limited talent, poor intangibles, health concerns, and questionable work ethics make it hard to see him age well enough to be part of a future Spurs title contender, and he won't be alone from current team..

[objective]

I don't want a big name in return for Aldridge, tbh, not that the Spurs would get one, anyways..I wouldn't expect major value, at this point, his stock is pretty low, especially if he doesn't step up in this series in a relatively favorable matchup..

I wonder if a team with limited assets like the Nets would still value his name..I'd take a RHJ/Levert/Booker package for him, for instance(sounds underwhelming, but I think the Spurs would benefit from just getting rid of him, similar to Jefferson)..

I don't think Marks would do that. I think he likes Levert too much.

If you want Mozgov and Randle, maybe that. No thanks for me.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't think Marks would do that. I think he likes Levert too much.

If you want Mozgov and Randle, maybe that. No thanks for me.

Damn, forgot Marks was running BK now..doesn't seem like a clown that would get robbed, tbh:lol

And no, I would also pass on that Lakers package:lol

[MaNu4Tres]

They should have pulled the trigger if they had an enticing offer last summer after those rumors emerged..Agree with DAF: we are at "addition by subtraction" stage with Aldridge..Any major roster re-configuration will have to start by moving him.

Limited talent, poor intangibles, health concerns, and questionable work ethics make it hard to see him age well enough to be part of a future Spurs title contender, and he won't be alone from current team..

Hes traded this summer or he walks next summer when he opts-out. No way RC/ Pop extend him after his atrocious tenure here. Lazy ass has no winning aspect in his DNA. Sat on his lazy ass the past two offseasons.

[MaNu4Tres]

Three way deal: If Suns get Fultz or Ball in draft.

LA to PHX
Bledsoe to SAC
WCS, Afflalo ( SA can waive him b4 FA), 8th pick to SA.


Or find a third team that needs a PG and has assets SA wld entertain.

[timtonymanu]

Can't wait for the inevitable "stand pat and bring everyone back" moves when Chris Paul and George Hill say no to the Spurs

[Robz4000]

Why do people think LMA is going to opt out after next season? With the way he's played the past two years outside part of last season and the OKC series he hasn't played anywhere near max contract level. No reason to expect him to get a deal North of $20mil. Hell, he might not even get $15mil. I think he opts in to get that $20mil then gets something like a 3/$42mil kinda deal. He knows his level of play with the Spurs has kinda fucked him on any future contract, so he might play nice with a potential Spurs trade partner if he's promised a prominant role on offense (or at least gets to play with guards that will set him up/spoonfeed him on the regular).

[SAGirl]

Ive seen the light. Isolation dependent teams won't win in this era. I thought Kawhi's individual greatness would give them a shot but MJ himself wouldn't win in today's NBA. Guys like midnightpulp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5430) are right, the three point shot is just too much to overcome. I don't think its Kawhi's game being antiquated as much as it is the Spurs team in general being antiquated.

A couple guys that can penetrate, 4 shooters at all times, and a mobile, athletic center who can switch and is a lob threat is the new blueprint. Personnel wise, the Spurs are way behind the curve, unfortunately.
It sucks... it kills variety and with as many talented bigs as there are in the league they can't get into the postseason Anthony Davis, KAT, Porzingis etc. Meantime you have some players below them like Paul George and he gets in. Game favors 3 pts shooting and perimeter play.

[objective]

Why do people think LMA is going to opt out after next season? With the way he's played the past two years outside part of last season and the OKC series he hasn't played anywhere near max contract level. No reason to expect him to get a deal North of $20mil. Hell, he might not even get $15mil. I think he opts in to get that $20mil then gets something like a 3/$42mil kinda deal. He knows his level of play with the Spurs has kinda fucked him on any future contract, so he might play nice with a potential Spurs trade partner if he's promised a prominant role on offense (or at least gets to play with guards that will set him up/spoonfeed him on the regular).

I expect because of his personality.

He left Portland because he was jealous over Lillard. He also refuses to be a center, which is why he nearly signed with a crap PHX team because they signed a washed up Chandler. Also why the Spurs had to grab Pau. But that same personality that refuses to be center is the same personality that makes him too good to work out in the summer and keep the weight off.

The kind of guy to blame others instead of himself and opt out.

[Robz4000]

I expect because of his personality.

He left Portland because he was jealous over Lillard. He also refuses to be a center, which is why he nearly signed with a crap PHX team because they signed a washed up Chandler. Also why the Spurs had to grab Pau. But that same personality that refuses to be center is the same personality that makes him too good to work out in the summer and keep the weight off.

The kind of guy to blame others instead of himself and opt out.

He might be those things (don't believe it myself, just think he's a soft, finesse big) but he isn't stupid; if he opts out he won't get that kinda money ever again. If he makes it clear he wants out (or the Spurs make it clear they wanna move him) he'll prolly agree to help facilitate a trade as long as whatever team he goes to will help demonstrate his strengths so he can show off and entice some team to give him a large contract. Suns, Kings, Lakers, etc could be those teams and would prolly be willing to take that risk due to desperation.

[DAF86]

Maybe Portland will take him back. They have a redundance of talent on the wings.

[SAGirl]

I don't know if they can get interest for Paul George trade.

[TheGreatYacht]

32yr old 6'11 shooting guard with heart issues.

We're fucked. Not even Magic Johnson the GM would bite.

[BillMc]

32yr old 6'11 shooting guard with heart issues.

We're fucked. Not even Magic Johnson the GM would bite.

1. Get Bud drunk (not hard to do apparently)

2. Sign and trade for Milsap. Guys wanted to be a Spur like his whole career.

[szkorhetz]

Clarkson +Randle for LMA and a first, TBH.

[ceperez]

I don't want a big name in return for Aldridge, tbh, not that the Spurs would get one, anyways..I wouldn't expect major value, at this point, his stock is pretty low, especially if he doesn't step up in this series in a relatively favorable matchup..

I wonder if a team with limited assets like the Nets would still value his name..I'd take a RHJ/Levert/Booker package for him, for instance(sounds underwhelming, but I think the Spurs would benefit from just getting rid of him, similar to Jefferson)..

I've been saying that he was RJ 2.0 since last years regular season. Just too bad. This time he doesn't have social media accounts to shut down.

[ceperez]

I expect because of his personality.

He left Portland because he was jealous over Lillard. He also refuses to be a center, which is why he nearly signed with a crap PHX team because they signed a washed up Chandler. Also why the Spurs had to grab Pau. But that same personality that refuses to be center is the same personality that makes him too good to work out in the summer and keep the weight off.

The kind of guy to blame others instead of himself and opt out.

PATFO has dug itself in a big hole with two massive contracts for bigs who are too slow for today's game. Spurs blew it big time with Aldridge signing. They invented the beautiful game but regressed while the rest of the league went into the other direction. Spurs discovered the 3-ball to learn how to win against a superior talented team, but now other teams are beating the Spurs with the same game.

[r0drig0lac]

I don't want a big name in return for Aldridge, tbh, not that the Spurs would get one, anyways..I wouldn't expect major value, at this point, his stock is pretty low, especially if he doesn't step up in this series in a relatively favorable matchup..

I wonder if a team with limited assets like the Nets would still value his name..I'd take a RHJ/Levert/Booker package for him, for instance(sounds underwhelming, but I think the Spurs would benefit from just getting rid of him, similar to Jefferson)..

wtf, Nets gm is sean marks, not billy king

[coachmac87]

LMA will be moved in order to get CP3 and other players

[MaNu4Tres]

LMA will be moved in order to get CP3 and other players

Cementing the Spurs into a 2nd round out again.

CP3 is a lazy/not thoroughly thought out addition that won't move the needle if Spurs allocate all of its resources to the PG position. Spurs need so much more than a CP3. And Spurs can't get " other players" if they give CP3 the max, even with LA traded.

If Spurs trade LA, Spurs need cap space, a prospect and I'll take a late 1st at this point. With the cap space I'd use it for other picks, and other young promising two-way players via trade or FA. I wouldn't spend 35 million per for a 32 yr old point guard. Spurs need to start making moves to grow with Kawhi's timeframe.

[Jdspur20]

If Spurs were to trade LMA on draft day, realistically what would be his worth? An 8-10 range pick???

[MaNu4Tres]

If Spurs were to trade LMA on draft day, realistically what would be his worth? An 8-10 range pick???

I'd be content with a top 20 pick, a decent young prospect w/ role player ceiling, and space.

[Jdspur20]

I'd be content with a top 20 pick, a decent young prospect w/ role player ceiling, and space.

At this point I agree. Regardless of what happens in this series.

[coachmac87]

Cementing the Spurs into a 2nd round out again.

CP3 is a lazy/not thoroughly thought out addition that won't move the needle if Spurs allocate all of its resources to the PG position. Spurs need so much more than a CP3. And Spurs can't get " other players" if they give CP3 the max, even with LA traded.

If Spurs trade LA, Spurs need cap space, a prospect and I'll take a late 1st at this point. With the cap space I'd use it for other picks, and other young promising two-way players via trade or FA. I wouldn't spend 35 million per for a 32 yr old point guard. Spurs need to start making moves to grow with Kawhi's timeframe.


Grow withi Kawhi time frame?? You assume he's locked in for the next 5-6 years and the Spurs can just build younger talent around him...

He can be gone in TWO years tops. It's about winning and yeah CP3 isn't ideal for the next 5-6 years like a Murray "plan" would be but getting Paul extends "competitive culture" a couple years while you're rebuilding or shaping the other half of the roster.

I dunno what's your ideal plan is without going full rebuild mode...I hope it's not giving Hill or Holiday 100M like some have suggested..

And about your LMA return package of WCS, Affalo and 8th pick?? REBUILDING. LOL

[Jdspur20]

Wonder if Portland would be interested in having LMA back. They have 3 draft picks.

[MaNu4Tres]

Grow withi Kawhi time frame?? You assume he's locked in for the next 5-6 years and the Spurs can just build younger talent around him...

He can be gone in TWO years tops. It's about winning and yeah CP3 isn't ideal for the next 5-6 years like a Murray "plan" would be but getting Paul extends "competitive culture" a couple years while you're rebuilding or shaping the other half of the roster.

I dunno what's your ideal plan is without going full rebuild mode...I hope it's not giving Hill or Holiday 100M like some have suggested..

And about your LMA return package of WCS, Affalo and 8th pick?? REBUILDING. LOL

Kawhi has stated in numerous interviews he wants to retire a Spur, not only that -- but Spurs can offer him more money than any other team when his contract is up. Parts of the new CBA gave players a much bigger incentive to re-sign with their current teams.

And yes, I'd trade LA for WCS, Afflalos unguaranteed contract (Spurs can opt against it before FA -- thus creating space), and the 8th pick.

Sometimes you have to take risks and sacrifice a few regular season wins to have a better future. There's no quick recipe, this isn't NBA2K "coach", even with CP3, that's going to make the Spurs the favorite over W's or Houston. And with a Kawhi led Spurs, Spurs will always be a 50 win team in todays NBA regardless -- he's a top 5 player that plays both ends. Just like Spurs were w/ Duncan when he carried the corpse of Ferry, Porter, David to the WCF. He won't be like Melo's Knicks because Melo is a cancer, a chucker that plays no defense. Spurs will be fine transitioning the next 2 years.

Keep jacking off to CP3 like he's the answer. He's not, and for him to come to SA makes very little sense, but you can't get that through your brain.

[coachmac87]

Kawhi has stated in numerous interviews he wants to retire a Spur, not only that -- but Spurs can offer him more money than any other team when his contract is up. Parts of the new CBA gave players a much bigger incentive to re-sign with their current teams.

And yes, I'd trade LA for WCS, Afflalos unguaranteed contract (Spurs can opt against it before FA -- thus creating space), and the 8th pick.

Sometimes you have to take risks and sacrifice a few regular season wins to have a better future. There's no quick recipe, even with CP3, that's going to make the Spurs the favorite over W's or Houston. And with a Kawhi led Spurs, Spurs will always be a 50 win team in todays NBA regardless -- he's a top 5 player that plays both ends. Just like Spurs were w/ Duncan when he carried the corpse of Ferry, Porter, David to the WCF. He won't be like Melo's Knicks because Melo is a cancer, a chucker that plays no defense. Spurs will be fine transitioning the next 2 years.

Keep jacking off to CP3 like he's the answer. He's not, and for him to come to SA makes very little sense, but you can't get that through your brain.


I'm not jacking anything off...but go ahead and just assume shit. Players control their destinations in this league especially if you're a top 5 like Kawhi. If he wants out of SA and still wants his mega max he will get it. You're really gonna go off his statements from the past? With your plan this team will get worst and fall behind the balance of the league.

I didn't start this whole CP3 to SA deal..Woj did and it hasn't died tbh..unless you want to believe the verbal agreement story..in which is still odd that so much speculation is going on.

Do you truly believe CP3 won't help this team? What have you been watching tbh? This team needs someone to consistently create offense...controls pace...and defend. Paul controlled one of the most efficient offenses in LAC. The Spurs breathe efficientcy and Paul would make any big that's rolling or popping better AND maybe just possibly get Green in a rhythm.

Bringing CP3 would allow Parker to go to the bench where he belongs and Murray can be the combo guard off the bench who can play Simmons, Manu role..while learning from HOF players.


But hey good luck with your rebuilding plan...and going from a 2 seed to a 7th with Murray/Parker (Guards), WSG and
Afflao getting significant minutes :lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm not jacking anything off...but go ahead and just assume shit. Players control their destinations in this league especially if you're a top 5 like Kawhi. If he wants out of SA and still wants his mega max he will get it. You're really gonna go off his statements from the past? With your plan this team will get worst and fall behind the balance of the league.

That's not how it works. Spurs can offer Kawhi the 5th year with 8% annual raises which equals out to over 50 million overall if he stays vs. goes. But you didn't know that.




But hey good luck with your rebuilding plan...and going from a 2 seed to a 7th with Murray/Parker (Guards), WSG and
Afflao getting significant minutes :lmao

You obviously can't read, because I said Afflalo would be waived before FA begins since his deal for next year is a team option -- Spurs would have his space this summer.

Stick to your podcast.

This forum deserves better.

[coachmac87]

That's not how it works. Spurs can offer Kawhi the 5th year with 8% annual raises which equals out to over 50 million overall if he stays vs. goes. But you didn't know that.


You obviously can't read, because I said Afflalo would be waived before FA begins since his deal for next year is a team option -- Spurs would have his space this summer.

Stick to your podcast.

This forum deserves better.

Kawhi can ask for a trade and can dictate wherever he wants..just like LeBron, Curry, etc.

Ok they waive Afflalo your plan still asks the Spurs to rebuild and if you think this year is tough to watch just wait for the following...

I'm assuming you were also against trying to sign KD too??

Like you do realize your plan probably shoots the Spurs possibly from 3rd-4th best team to arguably out of the top 10. Kawhi wants to compete for championships. You're fuckin rebuilding idea doesn't do that bud...If Spurs become average he's gone man..and it's naive of you to think he's gonna retire a Spur

[MaNu4Tres]

Kawhi can ask for a trade and can dictate wherever he wants..just like LeBron, Curry, etc.

Ok they waive Afflalo your plan still asks the Spurs to rebuild and if you think this year is tough to watch just wait for the following...

I'm assuming you were also against trying to sign KD too??

Like you do realize your plan probably shoots the Spurs possibly from 3rd-4th best team to arguably out of the top 10. Kawhi wants to compete for championships. You're fuckin rebuilding idea doesn't do that bud...If Spurs become average he's gone man..and it's naive of you to think he's gonna retire a Spur

Yes, I wanted KD because his age is on the same timeline as Kawhi, and he's a long, versatile, two way wing which is more valuable and scarce commodity.

As for your CP3 crybaby tirade -- Allocating all of your resources to one position, when Spurs have so many damn holes, won't help you compete for a championship either. Especially when that player is 7 years older than Kawhi, and plays in the most saturated position in the NBA. Yes CP3 is great, but his spot a the top w/ Westbrook and Curry won't last much longer and the position is the deepest position in the league.

Spurs can still be a top 5-7 team in the NBA not opting for CP3, promoting Murray, trading LA for assets. And in 2-3 yrs, with the right moves around Kawhi, Murray -- Spurs can be right there again ascending to the top of the league while Warriors are on their descend. Kawhi and CP3 the next 2-3 yrs while signing vet minimum fillers to fill other positions is a terrible plan.

Spurs need to start building a roster around Kawhi that can shoot, that is versatile, long, athletic, and that can defend 1-5 in space. Much like how the Bucks are doing.

[apalisoc_9]

That's not how it works. Spurs can offer Kawhi the 5th year with 8% annual raises which equals out to over 50 million overall if he stays vs. goes. But you didn't know that.





You obviously can't read, because I said Afflalo would be waived before FA begins since his deal for next year is a team option -- Spurs would have his space this summer.

Stick to your podcast.

This forum deserves better.

:lmao

I've never seen a least knowlegable poster talk like he knows everything as much as the podcast guy :lol

[SpursFan86]

Get. A. Fucking. Mobile. Big.

I'd almost place as much important on a mobile 4 who can defend the PnR as I would on a quality guard. So tired of running these 2-big lineups that can't defend the PnR for shit. It's fine in the regular season, but when you're going up against guys like Curry/Durant/Harden/Westbrook/CP3/LeBron in the playoffs, you NEED to be able to defend the PnR well.

[TheGreatYacht]

Celtics are DESPERATE for a power forward and they'll most likely draft a guard at the top of the draft. They're going to need to clear up some minutes for that rookie with IT, Bradley, Smart, Brown taking up that majority of them....

Celtics get:
Lamarcus Aldridge

Spurs get:
Avery Bradley
2017 #37 2nd round pick

Celtics get their PF in return for an expiring contract. Spurs clear $13M off the books and get the perfect player to have next to Kawhi.

[TheGreatYacht]

PJ Tucker and Bogdanovic can get you first round picks in today's NBA. No doubt Danny Green can too. Trade him for the best pick possible and shed that $10M off the books.

[apalisoc_9]

PJ Tucker and Bogdanovic can get you first round picks in today's NBA. No doubt Danny Green can too. Trade him for the best pick possible and shed that $10M off the books.

No one would want Green. Maybe the timberwolves, but its is shitty lottery pick.

They can get rid of green and Aldridge for Bledsoe and a mid teen pick though.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Kawhi can ask for a trade and can dictate wherever he wants..just like LeBron, Curry, etc.


Not if he wants the super max he can't be traded for a year.

[MaNu4Tres]

Get. A. Fucking. Mobile. Big.

I'd almost place as much important on a mobile 4 who can defend the PnR as I would on a quality guard. So tired of running these 2-big lineups that can't defend the PnR for shit. It's fine in the regular season, but when you're going up against guys like Curry/Durant/Harden/Westbrook/CP3/LeBron in the playoffs, you NEED to be able to defend the PnR well.

Trade Kyle for the 35th pick in the draft.

Jordan Bell and DJ Wilson. I'd love if Spurs could work some magic to get both of them. One at 29, one at 35.

[coachmac87]

Yes, I wanted KD because his age is on the same timeline as Kawhi, and he's a long, versatile, two way wing which is more valuable and scarce commodity.

As for your CP3 crybaby tirade -- Allocating all of your resources to one position, when Spurs have so many damn holes, won't help you compete for a championship either. Especially when that player is 7 years older than Kawhi, and plays in the most saturated position in the NBA. Yes CP3 is great, but his spot a the top w/ Westbrook and Curry won't last much longer and the position is the deepest position in the league.

Spurs can still be a top 5-7 team in the NBA not opting for CP3, promoting Murray, trading LA for assets. And in 2-3 yrs, with the right moves around Kawhi, Murray -- Spurs can be right there again ascending to the top of the league while Warriors are on their descend. Kawhi and CP3 the next 2-3 yrs while signing vet minimum fillers to fill other positions is a terrible plan.

Spurs need to start building a roster around Kawhi that can shoot, that is versatile, long, athletic, and that can defend 1-5 in space. Much like how the Bucks are doing.


Its about capitalizing on Kawhi's prime and Pop window. Say what ya about Pop but players respect him and want to play with him. I'm all for getting younger and longer and athletic..I mean Fuck it's the NBA that's what you'd like out of basketball players.

I'm not saying CP3 is ideal or even locks to win championships but the reality is that PATFO are going to kick the tires on CP3 him.

Again if you came up with another plan or solution I'd be interested in going another direction. But trading LMA for 8th pick, WCS and 8th pick plus Afflao cap space isn't gonna cut it tbh. The Spurs wouldn't contend in a prime Kawhi year and will be turning into the Lakers when Shaq-Kobe broke up..

Again sell me on a plan..

I don't find anything wrong for going after a top 5 player at his position...which is a HUGE need...not so much the position but Paul's strengths are the Spurs weaknesses right now. Playmaking. Yeah he's "older" but Spurs aren't asking him to be what he is in LAC.

[coachmac87]

:lmao

I've never seen a least knowlegable poster talk like he knows everything as much as the podcast guy :lol


Maybe you should make a thread about it

[MaNu4Tres]

Its about capitalizing on Kawhi's prime and Pop window. Say what ya about Pop but players respect him and want to play with him. I'm all for getting younger and longer and athletic..I mean Fuck it's the NBA that's what you'd like out of basketball players.

I'm not saying CP3 is ideal or even locks to win championships but the reality is that PATFO are going to kick the tires on CP3 him.

Again if you came up with another plan or solution I'd be interested in going another direction. But trading LMA for 8th pick, WCS and 8th pick plus Afflao cap space isn't gonna cut it tbh. The Spurs wouldn't contend in a prime Kawhi year and will be turning into the Lakers when Shaq-Kobe broke up..

Again sell me on a plan..

I don't find anything wrong for going after a top 5 player at his position...which is a HUGE need...not so much the position but Paul's strengths are the Spurs weaknesses right now. Playmaking. Yeah he's "older" but Spurs aren't asking him to be what he is in LAC.

Kawhi's prime is going to be a lot longer than the next 2-3 years. His game should age really well as his elite length and elite work ethic overlap his average athletic ability. His game doesn't rely on athletic ability. which is huge. His length, hard work and IQ will always be elite.. that should keep his prime window open for another 10 years.

I can't predict the future. All I'm saying is I'd start moving pieces around to get athletic, long, two way players, that are not liabilities defensively 1-5. Spurs have their PG of the future w/ Murray that checks those boxes. They have Green for another 2 years.

I wouldn't even mind it if Spurs did trade LA to PHX, Bledsoe to SAC, WCS, 12 million in space ( Afflalo) and the 8th pick to SA. Use that 8th pick on the best player available or if Spurs don't see the value in the 8th pick, trade the 8th for a 1st next year + a player like Wilson Chandler or a younger two way player w/ similar skill set and size.

Pray to god Gasol opts out and use the remaining space to go after Nerlens Noel.

Use the 29th pick on DJ Wilson or Jordan Bell.

Trade Kyle for the 35th pick and use that pick on Wesley Iwundu or Josh Hart.

There's so many small moves that can be made that can expedite the path this team needs to take in order to contend 2-3 years down the line and Kawhi's huge window allows for some patience in the next 1-2 years. There's no reason to be in panic mode and imply CP3 is the only answer for this franchise to keep Kawhi or is the only answer to ever contend again w/ Kawhi.

Your takes and your way of thinking I simply don't agree with.

[SpursBig3s]

Rockets are another two way wing away .. one with length. Spurs are so much further behind.


Ehh... are they? Nene was pretty awful all year, he's just having a reincarnation in the playoffs that probably won't happen again next year. And Ryan Anderson is essentially unplayable if he's not hitting his 3s. He is pretty awful on defense

[gambit1990]

do not keep tony as a starter. i'd argue don't keep him on the roster at all.

only untouchable is kawhi, of course.

[coachmac87]

Kawhi's prime is going to be a lot longer than the next 2-3 years. His game should age really well as his elite length and elite work ethic overlap his average athletic ability. His game doesn't rely on athletic ability. which is huge. His length, hard work and IQ will always be elite.. that should keep his prime window open for another 10 years.

I can't predict the future. All I'm saying is I'd start moving pieces around to get athletic, long, two way players, that are not liabilities defensively 1-5. Spurs have their PG of the future w/ Murray that checks those boxes. They have Green for another 2 years.

I wouldn't even mind it if Spurs did trade LA to PHX, Bledsoe to SAC, WCS, 12 million in space ( Afflalo) and the 8th pick to SA. Use that 8th pick on the best player available or if Spurs don't see the value in the 8th pick, trade the 8th for a 1st next year + a player like Wilson Chandler or a younger two way player w/ similar skill set and size.

Pray to god Gasol opts out and use the remaining space to go after Nerlens Noel.

Use the 29th pick on DJ Wilson or Jordan Bell.

Trade Kyle for the 35th pick and use that pick on Wesley Iwundu or Josh Hart.

There's so many small moves that can be made that can expedite the path this team needs to take in order to contend 2-3 years down the line and Kawhi's huge window allows for some patience in the next 1-2 years. There's no reason to be in panic mode and imply CP3 is the only answer for this franchise to keep Kawhi or is the only answer to ever contend again w/ Kawhi.

Your takes and your way of thinking I simply don't agree with.


I'd agree with most of what you said if Kawhi was locked in until he was 30. You think it's safe to say he's not going anywhere and he will extend or resign..

I just don't see how the Spurs can rebuild with a top 5 player entering their prime and expect that player to be cool with it..it's just a slippery slope IMO. Going after Paul allows the Spurs to compete yet help their young core (Murray, Bertans).

I will admit it can be difficult to predict or analyze a complete roster with Paul on it so I guess it's just easier to shrug it off. But we don't know what other dominos can fall..but Woj isn't the type to mention something to that extent for click bait...and this was said knowing the roster situation..and if you really think about it nothing has happened to change that..what's happened since has actually helped that scenario tbh.

And ask yourself this..Why would Woj say that?

[Nathan89]

Cut Pau and bring back Tiago. For the minimum why not?

[Nathan89]

Tiago has a 3pt shot now too.:toast

[NameLess Scrub]

Face it. Kawhi is going to lose his prime years drowning in his super-teaming, bad-shot-making, random-scrub-career-night opponents.

And every time he's close to MVP, they'll use the system excuse and give it to some 68% usage rate, 28% 3pt guy who wears potato bags to games.

Doom

[spursistan]

That's not how it works. Spurs can offer Kawhi the 5th year with 8% annual raises which equals out to over 50 million overall if he stays vs. goes. But you didn't know that.





You obviously can't read, because I said Afflalo would be waived before FA begins since his deal for next year is a team option -- Spurs would have his space this summer.

Stick to your podcast.

This forum deserves better.


:lmao

I've never seen a least knowlegable poster talk like he knows everything as much as the podcast guy :lol

:wow :lmao

[objective]

Bringing CP3 would allow Parker to go to the bench where he belongs and Murray can be the combo guard off the bench who can play Simmons, Manu role..while learning from HOF players.

But hey good luck with your rebuilding plan...and going from a 2 seed to a 7th with Murray/Parker (Guards), WSG and
Afflao getting significant minutes :lmao

How on Earth could the Spurs keep Parker and sign Paul?

Any plan that keeps Parker's 15% of the cap on the books basically guarantees no Paul.

[CGD]

I'd trade Kyle for an early 2nd ( Orlando) and target Wesley Iwundu or Jordan Bell ( if Spurs don't use the 29th on Jordan).

I'd then move Bertans to the back up SF to fill in SF minutes behind Kawhi ( he has the skillset) and then let Hanga, Iwundu, Simmons (1 +1 deal) compete for minutes at the SG position.

Flipping Anderson for a new rookie to replenish the system would be a win as Kyle's production can easily be replicated or improved on by Bertans, Simmons, Hanga, Iwundu options in 17'-18'. Spurs then get a valuable piece to develop the next 3-4 years in Iwundu for dirt cheap.

If Anderson showed consistency and significant improvement year after year the past 3 years, I'd feel different about Kyle -- but the guy just has a very limited ceiling as we've seen with his plateau over the past 3 years.

This is spot on. Plus, Bertans is going to (and needs to) take an increasing share of his already limited minutes.

[tbdog]

Yes or no, would you take Dwight and his 2 more years of 20mil dollar contact involving a sign and trade with Mils and Dedmon/Gasol?

[CGD]

Three way deal: If Suns get Fultz or Ball in draft.

LA to PHX
Bledsoe to SAC
WCS, Afflalo ( SA can waive him b4 FA), 8th pick to SA.


Or find a third team that needs a PG and has assets SA wld entertain.

Not that there have been many instances of this, but in my time as a Spurs fan the "big" free agents acquisitions we've made have just not planned out: D. Anderson, Jefferson and LMA. Finley might be the exception but Dallas was essentially paying him. I just think by the time these players reached the Spurs they were already set in their ways.

All that to say, we need to go the draft route. This is an interesting proposal for #8. If PHX falls out of the top 3 you have to make that call to see if there's something that can be worked out.

[gambit1990]

How on Earth could the Spurs keep Parker and sign Paul?

Any plan that keeps Parker's 15% of the cap on the books basically guarantees no Paul.

[GSH]

How on Earth could the Spurs keep Parker and sign Paul?

Any plan that keeps Parker's 15% of the cap on the books basically guarantees no Paul.


Once again, go back to preseason. The Spurs' FO made decisions that put them in cap hell next year. Pau isn't turning down his guarantee for next year. The Spurs have almost $32M tied up between those two guys next year. And nobody is going to give them a break by taking those salaries. Not unless the Spurs mortgage their future to make it happen.

[objective]

Kawhi's prime is going to be a lot longer than the next 2-3 years. His game should age really well as his elite length and elite work ethic overlap his average athletic ability. His game doesn't rely on athletic ability. which is huge. His length, hard work and IQ will always be elite.. that should keep his prime window open for another 10 years.

I can't predict the future. All I'm saying is I'd start moving pieces around to get athletic, long, two way players, that are not liabilities defensively 1-5. Spurs have their PG of the future w/ Murray that checks those boxes. They have Green for another 2 years.

I wouldn't even mind it if Spurs did trade LA to PHX, Bledsoe to SAC, WCS, 12 million in space ( Afflalo) and the 8th pick to SA. Use that 8th pick on the best player available or if Spurs don't see the value in the 8th pick, trade the 8th for a 1st next year + a player like Wilson Chandler or a younger two way player w/ similar skill set and size.

Pray to god Gasol opts out and use the remaining space to go after Nerlens Noel.

Use the 29th pick on DJ Wilson or Jordan Bell.

Trade Kyle for the 35th pick and use that pick on Wesley Iwundu or Josh Hart.

There's so many small moves that can be made that can expedite the path this team needs to take in order to contend 2-3 years down the line and Kawhi's huge window allows for some patience in the next 1-2 years. There's no reason to be in panic mode and imply CP3 is the only answer for this franchise to keep Kawhi or is the only answer to ever contend again w/ Kawhi.

Your takes and your way of thinking I simply don't agree with.

I don't think Kawhi's window is quite 10 years, but should be high enough for 5 years or so. Plenty of time if the Spurs do it right.

I don't know what the market will be for Aldridge, so I wouldn't mind them waiting it out until he opts out and just take the space. I'd hate to see them shoot for Bledsoe but settle for Knight and get saddled with his crap for 2 extra years.

If they can just be patient and take a year slow so they can free up massive space for summer 2018 with Aldridge and Green having opt outs and Parker's deal over, and of course Pau over if he opted in. And Anderson gone.

I doubt that Anderson can get much in return. Maybe a conditional second.

What I'd like to see is a development year. Bring over Hanga, Milutinov, hell, even Dangubic. Let Mills walk, and anyone else who opts out. The great thing about Hanga and Dangubic is that they are in the mold of good sized wings with enough athleticism to switch everything on the perimeter, which is key to the modern game. Bad news is they can't shoot 3s. But with enough luck, maybe they develop.

With the draft, I'd like to see the Spurs be aggressive and move up. Waiting their turn works sometimes like with Hill and hopefully Murray, but counting on other teams having doddering relics with enough sway to talk their team into passing on Parker for Joe Forte like Red Auerbach in Boston is just too passive these days.

I don't want to see another Utah jump the Spurs to take Gobert, or Houston a few picks before being able to snag Capela (whose advanced numbers were off the charts and showed extreme athleticism in his tape). Be active and go get the guy the want, not hope and pray. If they want Harry Giles for instance, don't wait around. If it takes a future protected first on top of the 2017, just do it if the player's rated that high on their board.

Kawhi has moved into that elite territory where in the regular season with a disciplined, well prepared system, they're going to be a playoff team. He has less to work with than Harden and the Spurs were able to rest their way to over 60 wins. Just adding a guard who can penetrate will open up a dynamism the offense hasn't had in years. Hopefully Murray is that guy.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't think Kawhi's window is quite 10 years, but should be high enough for 5 years or so. Plenty of time if the Spurs do it right.

I don't know what the market will be for Aldridge, so I wouldn't mind them waiting it out until he opts out and just take the space. I'd hate to see them shoot for Bledsoe but settle for Knight and get saddled with his crap for 2 extra years.

If they can just be patient and take a year slow so they can free up massive space for summer 2018 with Aldridge and Green having opt outs and Parker's deal over, and of course Pau over if he opted in. And Anderson gone.

I doubt that Anderson can get much in return. Maybe a conditional second.

What I'd like to see is a development year. Bring over Hanga, Milutinov, hell, even Dangubic. Let Mills walk, and anyone else who opts out. The great thing about Hanga and Dangubic is that they are in the mold of good sized wings with enough athleticism to switch everything on the perimeter, which is key to the modern game. Bad news is they can't shoot 3s. But with enough luck, maybe they develop.

With the draft, I'd like to see the Spurs be aggressive and move up. Waiting their turn works sometimes like with Hill and hopefully Murray, but counting on other teams having doddering relics with enough sway to talk their team into passing on Parker for Joe Forte like Red Auerbach in Boston is just too passive these days.

I don't want to see another Utah jump the Spurs to take Gobert, or Houston a few picks before being able to snag Capela (whose advanced numbers were off the charts and showed extreme athleticism in his tape). Be active and go get the guy the want, not hope and pray. If they want Harry Giles for instance, don't wait around. If it takes a future protected first on top of the 2017, just do it if the player's rated that high on their board.

Kawhi has moved into that elite territory where in the regular season with a disciplined, well prepared system, they're going to be a playoff team. He has less to work with than Harden and the Spurs were able to rest their way to over 60 wins. Just adding a guard who can penetrate will open up a dynamism the offense hasn't had in years. Hopefully Murray is that guy.

Regards to LA, I don't want them to get a Bledsoe either. Or a player of equal or less value. I want them to get space, a prospect that can defend and a pick. ( Hence the Three team trade proposal w/ Spurs getting WCS, Afflalo ( 12 mil in space), 8th pick).

The problem with the draft I'm having is I see a lot of balance from 15-40. There's no one from 10-25 that jumps out on me that would entice me to trade up. However there are guys like Jordan Bell and DJ Wilson who have strengths that matter in todays NBA ( mobile, versatile defenders that can defend in space in PnRs and the interior. They also have elite length. They also can finish well in PnRs). I actually think they have better defensive ceiling than a guy like Giles.

I also like the length and skillset of Wesely Iwundu. Draft Express has him getting picked in the late 40's -- he needs some development and fine tuning but the skill-set and ability is there. He can create in PnRs, has length, needs to get better shooting the ball, but he has that important two way skill set.

Orlando had it on their trade board that they were interested in trading for Kyle this summer lol. That's why I brought up Kyle + 59th for the 35th. In order to get a high 2nd. If that could be done, I'd be all over it and target Jordan Bell, DJ Wilson, Iwundu or Hart.

[objective]

However there are guys like Jordan Bell and DJ Wilson who have strengths that matter in todays NBA ( mobile, versatile defenders that can defend in space in PnRs and the interior. They also have elite length. They also can finish well in PnRs). I actually think they have better defensive ceiling than a guy like Giles.

I also like the length and skillset of Wesely Iwundu. Draft Express has him getting picked in the late 40's -- he needs some development and fine tuning but the skill-set and ability is there. He can create in PnRs, has length, needs to get better shooting the ball, but he has that important two way skill set.

Orlando had it on their trade board that they were interested in trading for Kyle this summer lol. That's why I brought up Kyle + 59th for the 35th. In order to get a high 2nd. If that could be done, I'd be all over it and target Jordan Bell, DJ Wilson, Iwundu or Hart.

Wilson and Bell both look very interesting, I have to check those two out more.

Re: Anderson and Orlando . . . Maybe that's what wrecked Hennigan, having that name on the list. Too bad he's gone, otherwise I could see it happening. :lol

[Strategic]

It's a few hours early to get involved in this thread. If the Spurs win game 2 vs the rockets then I look for a long series that can go either way. It's a good assumption Manu will retire. If Mills goes elsewhere for whatever reason I'm happy with keeping Murray and Forbes. Maybe try to add an Archie Goodwin who has experience in the league but is still young enough to advance his skills. He has skills but has been tied to shit systems. Be a cheap addition. If the Spurs fall in this round to the rockets I don't see Aldridge and the Spurs being cosher with each other. Unfortunately, I don't see a solution for turning LA into the next Timmy.

[sasaint]

I don't think Kawhi's window is quite 10 years, but should be high enough for 5 years or so. Plenty of time if the Spurs do it right.

I don't know what the market will be for Aldridge, so I wouldn't mind them waiting it out until he opts out and just take the space. I'd hate to see them shoot for Bledsoe but settle for Knight and get saddled with his crap for 2 extra years.

If they can just be patient and take a year slow so they can free up massive space for summer 2018 with Aldridge and Green having opt outs and Parker's deal over, and of course Pau over if he opted in. And Anderson gone.

I doubt that Anderson can get much in return. Maybe a conditional second.

What I'd like to see is a development year. Bring over Hanga, Milutinov, hell, even Dangubic. Let Mills walk, and anyone else who opts out. The great thing about Hanga and Dangubic is that they are in the mold of good sized wings with enough athleticism to switch everything on the perimeter, which is key to the modern game. Bad news is they can't shoot 3s. But with enough luck, maybe they develop.

With the draft, I'd like to see the Spurs be aggressive and move up. Waiting their turn works sometimes like with Hill and hopefully Murray, but counting on other teams having doddering relics with enough sway to talk their team into passing on Parker for Joe Forte like Red Auerbach in Boston is just too passive these days.

I don't want to see another Utah jump the Spurs to take Gobert, or Houston a few picks before being able to snag Capela (whose advanced numbers were off the charts and showed extreme athleticism in his tape). Be active and go get the guy the want, not hope and pray. If they want Harry Giles for instance, don't wait around. If it takes a future protected first on top of the 2017, just do it if the player's rated that high on their board.

Kawhi has moved into that elite territory where in the regular season with a disciplined, well prepared system, they're going to be a playoff team. He has less to work with than Harden and the Spurs were able to rest their way to over 60 wins. Just adding a guard who can penetrate will open up a dynamism the offense hasn't had in years. Hopefully Murray is that guy.

That may be PATFO's plan. However, I think it could be seriously flawed. I believe the odds are pretty high that a scrubby Danny and a washed-up Softridge would opt IN in the summer of 2018, so that your "massive" cap relief would be pushed to 2019 and be somewhat reduced by the (presumed) departure of Tony the year before, and therefore PATFO's consuming that $15MM in cap relief in 2018. In that scenario fans would need to be patient for 2 years instead of 1. Spurs would probably continue to be a solid RS team and first round playoff fodder.

[objective]

There's no way Aldridge doesn't opt out, even if he wants to stay with the Spurs. There's too much money around. Biyombo and Mahinmi had very few starts in their careers, and were sliding out of their primes and still got 16-18 to be bench centers in a league. Noah was totally washed up and missing huge number of games for 2 straight years with a massive stat collapse and still got 18 a year for 4 years.

A recent all star who can blame his struggles on a system built around Kawhi, he's getting PAID. it might not be more than 25 a year, but he's getting multiple years.

Green is not very different. He can get a 4 year deal somewhere at 10 a year because that's the new rate for rotation players.

It's in their best interests to opt out to get the last big guaranteed amounts of their career. It's not like either one will be in a Pau scenario in their late 30s and on the verge of retirement.

[NASpurs]

Get ready fellas, here's your backup SF next year

https://sports.yahoo.com/m/549089b6-7199-3d70-9237-5098b15ae711/butler-would-come-back-if-he.html

Butler would come back if he could play for Warriors, Cavs, or Spurs

[Robz4000]

:lmao

[Seventyniner]

Cap space in 2018 was the plan all along. I just hope the Spurs don't panic if they lose this series.

[Nathan89]

Just hoping LMA can get us a decent pg in return. Parker could be out next season as well. Not a big fan of overpaying Mills either. Tough position for the Spurs FO.

[Robz4000]

Tony being out next season isn't a huge deal because it opens things up for Murray. Also, if Patty steps up in Tony's absence and the team makes it to the WCF and is decently competitive I think the starting job is his.

[ducks]

If tp retires would spurs get cap space

[timtonymanu]

Get ready fellas, here's your backup SF next year

https://sports.yahoo.com/m/549089b6-7199-3d70-9237-5098b15ae711/butler-would-come-back-if-he.html

Butler would come back if he could play for Warriors, Cavs, or Spurs

I would rather bring back Rasual