2017 > 1990s ball..

[HarlemHeat37]

Quick team shooting 1000 3s per game, no prioritizing of a post game, no mid-range jump shots vs. a slow, mid-range shooting team that decided to build around their frontcourt..

It's much more fun to watch, too, tbh..

Spurs can certainty still win the series since Houston's high variance offense is hit or miss in every respective game(they shot poorly vs. OKC in 4 of the 5 games IIRC), but it might be time to re-consider the Spurs' approach when you see how teams like the Warriors, Cavs and Rockets are building their rosters..

[Spurs9]

:lol Todays 3s, almost sickening. Imagine the Rockets and Warriors series, we may have a level of chucking never seen before in a series.

[dabom]

You hedged. You didn't say anything.

[HarlemHeat37]

You hedged. You didn't say anything.

I didn't say that I did:lol I'm making an observation based on how painfully slow the Spurs look..I can still see the Spurs winning the series..

[DAF86]

How much time will it take to the most overrated coach of all time to understand he needs to go small?

[SuperCam]

Poop thought he could zig while everone else zag'd :lol

[ElNono]

The bigs idea isn't terrible if your big is actually dominant, instead of a soft ass piece of shit...

[HarlemHeat37]

It was actually the correct move for the Spurs, considering the circumstances..they had already signed Aldridge to a max deal, Parker was never going to be traded and Pau was the only notable big-name FA..

The 3>2 argument has obviously altered the direction of the league, though..Warriors, Cavs and Rockets..

[testies]

we play dinosaur basketball

today you can just double the bigs much easier, and make them pay on the other end

[Floyd Pacquiao]

It worked when the spurs had prime Duncan against the ssol suns, we just have soft shitty bigs. (Not like they were gonna beat the warriors or anything) but no doubt they can take the rockets & Cavs with a dominant big next to kawhi

[DPG21920]

The bigs idea isn't terrible if your big is actually dominant, instead of a soft ass piece of shit...

This is it. If you replaced LMA with a Cousins, SA would be tremendous.

[apalisoc_9]

Get rid of aldridge...

If the FO listened to me and not sign that loser..We'd have a penetrating Guard instead.

[DPG21920]

It was actually the correct move for the Spurs, considering the circumstances..they had already signed Aldridge to a max deal, Parker was never going to be traded and Pau was the only notable big-name FA..

The 3>2 argument has obviously altered the direction of the league, though..Warriors, Cavs and Rockets..

Spurs have the highest 3PT% in the league this year even with the go big strategy. :lol

It's a well built team playing poorly this game.

[HarlemHeat37]

Spurs have the highest 3PT% in the league this year even with the go big strategy. :lol

It's a well built team playing poorly this game.

25th in attempts

Houston 1st, Cleveland 2nd, Warriors 5th

[DPG21920]

25th in attempts

Houston 1st, Cleveland 2nd, Warriors 5th

I know that. But SA still has an elite shooting team where it matters. The problem is the bigs that were supposed to dominate have both come up duds. Sure, SA could get more attempts, but no one has the balance SA has but guys are just not playing well.

[Blackjack]

I just saw Harden being guarded by Aldridge and then taking a pick to get the switch to Gasol. :rollin

[UZER]

It's rec league basketball. It's garbage.

[midnightpulp]

Sorry, bro. I know you're all for "modernity," but today's NBA is total trash. It's turned into a binary game of chuck 3s/drive, with no other strategy being viable with how broken the 3 point line is.

NBA won't change things, though, because it's "fun to watch." Never mind the fact they changed the rules to make post-play obsolete.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And Pop did it willingly. :rolleyes

[HarlemHeat37]

Sorry, bro. I know you're all for "modernity," but today's NBA is total trash. It's turned into a binary game of chuck 3s/drive, with no other strategy being viable with how broken the 3 point line is.

NBA won't change things, though, because it's "fun to watch." Never mind the fact they changed the rules to make post-play obsolete.

Whether you enjoy it or not is irrelevant, though..it's 2017, they will need to adapt to modernity..

The Spurs used to be the franchise that was ahead of the curve..

[midnightpulp]

Whether you enjoy it or not is irrelevant, though..it's 2017, they will need to adapt to modernity..

The Spurs used to be the franchise that was ahead of the curve..

I've endorsed such. See my Kawhi-Antiquated thread, where I want him taking less midrange shots in favor of more 3s/penetration.

But I'm not going to endorse the NBA product overall so I can sit here and feel contemporary while turning my nose up at "nostalgia."

2011-2014 pace-and-space :tu

This post-Curry era shit, though, is unwatchable and broken. In no other sport are you going to see 50% more points awarded for a shot or play that isn't any harder to perform than regular scoring actions.

[TD 21]

Sorry, bro. I know you're all for "modernity," but today's NBA is total trash. It's turned into a binary game of chuck 3s/drive, with no other strategy being viable with how broken the 3 point line is.

NBA won't change things, though, because it's "fun to watch." Never mind the fact they changed the rules to make post-play obsolete.



I've endorsed such. See my Kawhi-Antiquated thread, where I want him taking less midrange shots in favor of more 3s/penetration.

But I'm not going to endorse the NBA product overall so I can sit here and feel contemporary while turning my nose up at "nostalgia."

2011-2014 pace-and-space :tu

This post-Curry era shit, though, is unwatchable and broken. In no other sport are you going to see 50% more points awarded for a shot or play that isn't any harder to perform than regular scoring actions.

:lol :tu

Couldn't agree more and this is coming from a guy who's been in the mold of Curry damn near since I picked up a ball. It's just gone too far though; those 3 teams have ruined the game and though it isn't currently reflected in ratings and other ways, it eventually will be once casual fan inevitably gets sick of watching a style that's not guardable and a team that's unbeatable.

It's not sour grapes either because I enjoyed watching the Warriors specifically play as recently as '15, but it was the Cavs-Hawks series that year that my mindset began to shift. It was alarming how helpless an elite defense was against the 3-point onslaught and we're going to see it to an even greater extent in this series.

Something is wrong with a league, when the #1 defense has no chance at slowing down a top 3 offense, when a big as skilled as Gasol is unplayable against said teams and when everyone is forced to have the same type of personnel and and play the same style.

It's time to equalize this shit: Move the 3 point line back from 23.9 at the top of the circle to 26 or 27 feet and have the line be straight across.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol :tu

Couldn't agree more and this is coming from a guy who's been in the mold of Curry damn near since I picked up a ball. It's just gone too far though; those 3 teams have ruined the game and though it isn't currently reflected in ratings and other ways, it eventually will be once casual fan inevitably gets sick of watching a style that's not guardable and a team that's unbeatable.

It's not sour grapes either because I enjoyed watching the Warriors specifically play as recently as '15, but it was the Cavs-Hawks series that year that my mindset began to shift. It was alarming how helpless an elite defense was against the 3-point onslaught and we're going to see it to an even greater extent in this series.

Something is wrong with a league, when the #1 defense has no chance at slowing down a top 3 offense, when a big as skilled as Gasol is unplayable against said teams and when everyone is forced to have the same type of personnel and and play the same style.

It's time to equalize this shit: Move the 3 point line back from 23.9 at the top of the circle to 26 or 27 feet and have the line be straight across.

I understand the dislike for the game, but I strongly disagree with this, tbh..unlike other leagues, the "dominant NBA team" has always drawn high ratings, historically..

The NBA is more popular than any time since DK retired..can't see Silver stepping in and making any changes while the Finals ratings are as high as they have been the past few years..

[NameLess Scrub]

NBA Jam, ball always on fire basketball. Super Nintendo basketball. Cheesy basketball.
Button Mashing basketball.

[Hoops Czar]

Sorry, bro. I know you're all for "modernity," but today's NBA is total trash. It's turned into a binary game of chuck 3s/drive, with no other strategy being viable with how broken the 3 point line is.

NBA won't change things, though, because it's "fun to watch." Never mind the fact they changed the rules to make post-play obsolete.

Why don't we bring back 70's basketball while were at it. :lol The Spurs used to be one of those teams that penetrated, slung the ball around and shot 3-pointers and I don't recall anyone in here calling for changes during that time (2012-14). Now, you want them to make changes to the league so the Spurs can keep up with it's competitors? :lol The Spurs invented the wheel and then went in another direction while teams like Houston and GS copied the Spurs style of play and stayed the course.

The reason the Spurs defense is struggling to stop Houston is because the help defense is so poor. One guy drives causing the entire Spurs defense to collapse leaving two or three wide open 3-point shooters. This just in.... Duncan was good, Lee :lmao, Dedmon :lol, Aldridge - meh, not so much.

[313]

"(they shot poorly vs. OKC in 4 of the 5 games IIRC)"

Same way they shot poorly in 4 out of 5 games vs OKC, they'll shoot lights out 4 out of 5 games vs SA.

[313]

Why don't we bring back 70's basketball while were at it. :lol The Spurs used to be one of those teams that penetrated, slung the ball around and shot 3-pointers and I don't recall anyone in here calling for changes during that time (2012-14). Now, you want them to make changes to the league so the Spurs can keep up with it's competitors? :lol
:lol SFs

[TD 21]

I understand the dislike for the game, but I strongly disagree with this, tbh..unlike other leagues, the "dominant NBA team" has always drawn high ratings, historically..

The NBA is more popular than any time since DK retired..can't see Silver stepping in and making any changes while the Finals ratings are as high as they have been the past few years..

Dominance is one thing, but even the 90s Bulls and early 00s Lakers, I'm pretty sure no one ever said on July 4th that no one has a snowball's chance in hell at beating them. What's worse, it's unlikely to change in the near future and that can only hold casual fan's attention so long.

Also, it's trending towards everybody looking and playing the same. Too much of anything is not good.

[midnightpulp]

Why don't we bring back 70's basketball while were at it. :lol The Spurs used to be one of those teams that penetrated, slung the ball around and shot 3-pointers and I don't recall anyone in here calling for changes during that time (2012-14). Now, you want them to make changes to the league so the Spurs can keep up with it's competitors? :lol The Spurs invented the wheel and then went in another direction while teams like Houston and GS copied the Spurs style of play and stayed the course.

The reason the Spurs defense is struggling to stop Houston is because the help defense is so poor. One guy drives causing the entire Spurs defense to collapse leaving two or three wide open 3-point shooters. This just in.... Duncan was good, Lee :lmao, Dedmon :lol, Aldridge - meh, not so much.

"The Beautiful Game" wasn't anything like the modern game strategically nor stylistically. Key phrase there is: Slung the ball around. Those Spurs were a great 3 point shooting team, but the difference is they manufactured those shots through an inside-out gameplan that involved a lot of cutting and ball movement to produce open looks. Teams like Houston and the Warriors do everything off the pick and dribble, i.e. chucking.

Furthermore, those Spurs averaged about 21 three point attempts per game. The Rockets average fuckin' 40. The Cavs 34. The Warriors 31.

[midnightpulp]

I understand the dislike for the game, but I strongly disagree with this, tbh..unlike other leagues, the "dominant NBA team" has always drawn high ratings, historically..

The NBA is more popular than any time since DK retired..can't see Silver stepping in and making any changes while the Finals ratings are as high as they have been the past few years..

We'll get a true gauge of the NBA's popularity once we get something like a Spurs/Bucks matchup. I always felt that NBA "fans" follow players more than they do the league. When Jordan retired, the NBA Finals ratings fell from 30 million to 15 million, and the 1999 Finals featured the Knicks (big market team) and the Spurs (who didn't have their boring rep yet and had a close-to-prime David Robinson, who was one of the more marketable 90's stars).

I think Curry, Lebron, and to an extent, Westbrook and Harden are popular more-so than the league as a whole.

Silver can't be short-sighted here. Their obsession with "superstars" is what led to the ratings doldrums in the early-to-mid 00s before Lebron (Miami Heat and Prodigal Son versions) kind of rescued the concept of NBA superstar. Kobe was on his way, but the rape case derailed things.

See here:

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/briangoff/files/2015/06/nba-finals.jpg

[coachmac87]

Spurs need a consistent/dominant PNR player..Pop has always had one in his systems (Parker,Manu)in other words they need a damn good point guard...or Chris Paul.

[midnightpulp]

:lol :tu

Couldn't agree more and this is coming from a guy who's been in the mold of Curry damn near since I picked up a ball. It's just gone too far though; those 3 teams have ruined the game and though it isn't currently reflected in ratings and other ways, it eventually will be once casual fan inevitably gets sick of watching a style that's not guardable and a team that's unbeatable.

It's not sour grapes either because I enjoyed watching the Warriors specifically play as recently as '15, but it was the Cavs-Hawks series that year that my mindset began to shift. It was alarming how helpless an elite defense was against the 3-point onslaught and we're going to see it to an even greater extent in this series.

Something is wrong with a league, when the #1 defense has no chance at slowing down a top 3 offense, when a big as skilled as Gasol is unplayable against said teams and when everyone is forced to have the same type of personnel and and play the same style.

It's time to equalize this shit: Move the 3 point line back from 23.9 at the top of the circle to 26 or 27 feet and have the line be straight across.

Yeah, a lot of basketball fans don't see the end-game here. Post-play (basketball's most intriguing and "beautiful" skill) is pretty much obsolete, which means that in due time big men will be obsolete, on both the offense and defensive ends since switching is required more than ever. Eventually, we'll just see a bunch of 6'7" players on the floor, aka "positionless" basketball. This sucks, because one of the unique things about basketball is it's the only sport human beings who are 6'11 and taller can play consistently at the highest levels. Yeah, you have your Randy Johnsons and I think Aussie Rules has some 7 footers, but basketball is the one sport where being that tall is considered an advantage. Most other sports it's considered a detriment.

The modern game is cool for vine loops, though. I guess that's all that matters.

[140]

Quick team shooting 1000 3s per game, no prioritizing of a post game, no mid-range jump shots vs. a slow, mid-range shooting team that decided to build around their frontcourt..

It's much more fun to watch, too, tbh..
lmao no it isn't, it gets old pretty quick to watch dudes chucking 3 pointers generated by a high pnr every time down the floor tbh because that shit takes no skill other than, well, shooting 3 pointers :lol

[SpursforSix]

lmao no it isn't, it gets old pretty quick to watch dudes chucking 3 pointers generated by a high pnr every time down the floor tbh because that shit takes no skill other than, well, shooting 3 pointers :lol

It makes me wonder what the future holds. Players will continue to get better and better at shooting the 3. And it's not that damn hard of a shot. It's easier than a 15 footer for most players because you don't have to do much adjustment to your shot or control the power of it.

[Strategic]

Not so long ago TD and Shaq prevented drives to the bucket which allowed perimeter defenders to stick to their man. Good times

[DMC]

I didn't say that I did:lol I'm making an observation based on how painfully slow the Spurs look..I can still see the Spurs winning the series..

If this was the Spurs from a couple years ago with guys you know can get hot and get the ball around the horn, I'd have that viewpoint. Right now though, with a group of career losers (mostly) signed in the past 2 years, I cannot imagine them stepping up and beating a team that has the green light and the energy to use it.

[DAF86]

We need a prime Manu, tbh. Imagine how big of a superstar he would be in today's NBA. :wow:

[apalisoc_9]

We need a prime Manu, tbh. Imagine how big of a superstar he would be in today's NBA. :wow:

I love manu but he never had that constant aggression needed for superstar numbers. Even When playing with Argentina.

I think today, he'd be viewed as one of the top 15 nba players because of his ability to pass and create spaces but I very much doubt he'd average even 25 in today's game.

He always seemed to pick his spots.

[apalisoc_9]

But if the Spurs had Green-Manu-Kawhi today with a 58 year old pop..Not this current Pop.

My God that's a Killer lineup. It's going to negate Greens inability dribble.

[TD 21]

Yeah, a lot of basketball fans don't see the end-game here. Post-play (basketball's most intriguing and "beautiful" skill) is pretty much obsolete, which means that in due time big men will be obsolete, on both the offense and defensive ends since switching is required more than ever. Eventually, we'll just see a bunch of 6'7" players on the floor, aka "positionless" basketball. This sucks, because one of the unique things about basketball is it's the only sport human beings who are 6'11 and taller can play consistently at the highest levels. Yeah, you have your Randy Johnsons and I think Aussie Rules has some 7 footers, but basketball is the one sport where being that tall is considered an advantage. Most other sports it's considered a detriment.

The modern game is cool for vine loops, though. I guess that's all that matters.

Bigs will never be obsolete, but traditional ones will get closer to that with each passing generation. Size and length will always be important in this sport though, it'll just be utilized differently. They'll be more guard like, but that's already the case with the best young or youngish bigs.

I agree that the phasing out of the traditional big man sucks though. I don't want to watch the heaps of limited bigs or ISO ball of the 90s either, but anyone who really appreciates the game should enjoy watching guys like prime Olajuwon, Duncan, etc., in the low post. Variety, in general, is good. I don't want to watch a bunch of Warriors imitators pretending they're "progressive", when in reality they're just following the trend.

[DAF86]

I love manu but he never had that constant aggression needed for superstar numbers. Even When playing with Argentina.

I think today, he'd be viewed as one of the top 15 nba players because of his ability to pass and create spaces but I very much doubt he'd average even 25 in today's game.

He always seemed to pick his spots.

I don't know how many pts he would score, what I do know is that he will kill it on today's NBA and he would easily, but eeeeasily, be regarded as a top 10 player. 'Cause he would make any team he played for a good team and he would post some monsters advanced stats. He would be very Harden like + defense, tbh.

[sasaint]

Bigs will never be obsolete, but traditional ones will get closer to that with each passing generation. Size and length will always be important in this sport though, it'll just be utilized differently. They'll be more guard like, but that's already the case with the best young or youngish bigs.

I agree that the phasing out of the traditional big man sucks though. I don't want to watch the heaps of limited bigs or ISO ball of the 90s either, but anyone who really appreciates the game should enjoy watching guys like prime Olajuwon, Duncan, etc., in the low post. Variety, in general, is good. I don't want to watch a bunch of Warriors imitators pretending they're "progressive", when in reality they're just following the trend.

:tu X 1000

[apalisoc_9]

I don't know how many pts he would score, what I do know is that he will kill it on today's NBA and he would easily, but eeeeasily, be regarded as a top 10 player. 'Cause he would make any team he played for a good team and he would post some monsters advanced stats. He would be very Harden like + defense, tbh.

Top 10 is hard to argue. Easily is homerish.

Maybe a slight case...but he's probably in the 3rd tier of star players...

[apalisoc_9]

Not to bring soccer into this, but man this is why i love that sport so much. It's impossible to have a winning "trend" in soccer. Nor can you count on Statsitical trends ala baseball.

It's just impossible.

[DAF86]

Top 10 is hard to argue. Easily is homerish.

Maybe a slight case...but he's probably in the 3rd tier of star players...

Tell me who are the borderline top 10 players? Antetowahteverhisnameisspelled, Paul George, Cousins, Blake, Isiah Thomas, Wall, Irving? A number one option Manu (or 1B), in today's NBA, is easily on that tier.

[313]

We'll get a true gauge of the NBA's popularity once we get something like a Spurs/Bucks matchup. I always felt that NBA "fans" follow players more than they do the league. When Jordan retired, the NBA Finals ratings fell from 30 million to 15 million, and the 1999 Finals featured the Knicks (big market team) and the Spurs (who didn't have their boring rep yet and had a close-to-prime David Robinson, who was one of the more marketable 90's stars).

I think Curry, Lebron, and to an extent, Westbrook and Harden are popular more-so than the league as a whole.

Silver can't be short-sighted here. Their obsession with "superstars" is what led to the ratings doldrums in the early-to-mid 00s before Lebron (Miami Heat and Prodigal Son versions) kind of rescued the concept of NBA superstar. Kobe was on his way, but the rape case derailed things.

See here:

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/briangoff/files/2015/06/nba-finals.jpgWhen it comes to TV ratings, I think KD signing to the Dubs will be awful for the league. Now sure why Silver didn't call him and tell him to sign to the Celtics or Wizards for some wink wink money.

[r0drig0lac]

I don't know how many pts he would score, what I do know is that he will kill it on today's NBA and he would easily, but eeeeasily, be regarded as a top 10 player. 'Cause he would make any team he played for a good team and he would post some monsters advanced stats. He would be very Harden like + defense, tbh.

true

[midnightpulp]

Not to bring soccer into this, but man this is why i love that sport so much. It's impossible to have a winning "trend" in soccer. Nor can you count on Statsitical trends ala baseball.

It's just impossible.

Soccer is about 20 years behind on analytics. Statistical trends will emerge. Soccer isn't exempt from math and science. Furthermore, the fact the same few teams win the EPL. La Liga, and Bundesliga every year tells me there is indeed a formula that works, whether it's talent=winning or a special strategy or a combination of both, there's still an underlying formula at work that increases a team's odds of winning.

[apalisoc_9]

Soccer is about 20 years behind on analytics. Statistical trends will emerge. Soccer isn't exempt from math and science. Furthermore, the fact the same few teams win the EPL. La Liga, and Bundesliga every year tells me there is indeed a formula that works, whether it's talent=winning or a special strategy or a combination of both, there's still an underlying formula at work that increases a team's odds of winning.

No. The fact that few teams are winning is all about lack of cap.

Rich teams win. Period.

[midnightpulp]

No. The fact that few teams are winning is all about lack of cap.

Rich teams win. Period.

Then the game can reduced to a "trend." Talent=winning.

That's true for all sports. Fans overrate the value of tactics and strategy in every sport. End of the day, skill, talent, and athleticism win out over fancy playbooks.


Wormuth concluded that tactical variations in a match are "overrated" and added that he thinks coaches these days can get lost in tactical thinking.

Borussia Monchengladbach coach Dieter Hecking also said recently that it is difficult for him to understand what some experts concluded about his tactics when watching matches he coached.

He said: "I read one of those pieces following a Wolfsburg match [where he coached until late 2016], and asked myself, 'They say I came up with those highly complex things?'"

http://www.espnfc.us/germany/story/3066461/tactics-are-overrated-quality-of-players-more-important-dfb-director