Tony Parker - The Phoenix - In Memorium

[SpursforSix]

So as much as I hate on Parker and his contract, he showed up big in these playoffs. Made huge shots and made some great drives. No matter how much quickness he's lost, it's almost impossible to defend his spin move. Huge loss for the Spurs. I guess the only upside is that it throws Murray into the fire and maybe...just maybe he'll deliver.

But to Tony Parker...oh Great Phoenix...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoOhnrjdYOc

[sammy]

LOL!

[SupremeGuy]

:cry:cry:cry

[SAGirl]

Team missing the Phoenix right now...

[duncan2k5]

Team missing the Phoenix right now...

No we are not...didnt u see him last year?

[Play Boban]

He was utter crap in the playoffs. How can he be good when his ass is pinned to the bench because he’s afraid to play because of a bruised ego? He was scared of going up against Curry so he faked an injury that get out of that series. :nope

[bklynspursfan]

Team missing the Phoenix right now...

Most definitely

[rjv]

No we are not...didnt u see him last year? parker is not what he was but he is better than any of the PGs we have at this time. I am not saying potentially because we have some (namely murray) that have the potential to be better even by the end of this season, but there are aspects to tony's game that provide stability to the offense (and defense) that are clearly missing at this time.

[Stabula]

If we had Tony at point instead of 50 we'd probably have 3 less L's right now.

[dabom]

If we had Tony at point instead of 50 we'd probably have 3 less L's right now.

:lmao

[Seventyniner]

If we had Tony at point instead of 50 we'd probably have 3 less L's right now.

I'd go with two: Indiana and Milwaukee. Maybe last night too because so much damage was done by stupid turnovers.

[dabom]

Tony has been a fucking cancer the last couple of years. Probably down 10 by the first quarter. :lmao

[Stabula]

I'd go with two: Indiana and Milwaukee. Maybe last night too because so much damage was done by stupid turnovers.

That's what I'm saying

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Tony can run the offense better than the other PGs we've got. Start Parker, backup with Murray, and let Mills pick up spot minutes at the 1, and the 2 when we're going ultra small ball.

[MaNu4Tres]

parker is not what he was but he is better than any of the PGs we have at this time. I am not saying potentially because we have some (namely murray) that have the potential to be better even by the end of this season, but there are aspects to tony's game that provide stability to the offense (and defense) that are clearly missing at this time.

Better at what exactly?

There's areas of the PG position (on this team) WITH Kawhi that are more valuable than others. What areas are Parkers strengths and how valuable are those areas when Kawhi is playing?

There's reasons why the Spurs won 3.5/4 games without Parker out of the 5 games vs. Houston.

[MaNu4Tres]

Tony can run the offense better than the other PGs we've got. Start Parker, backup with Murray, and let Mills pick up spot minutes at the 1, and the 2 when we're going ultra small ball.

What is the definition of running an offense? People act like Parker controls what his teammates do, like they are clueless. As if everyone but Parker are just chess pieces on a board and Parker is the brain behind moving all the pieces. That couldn't further from reality. Every player on the floor is aware of whats going on and where to be ( its their equal responsibility).

These days, Parker is used the same way as any other wing/guard not named Kawhi, except he brings the ball up the floor like Patty and Murray.

The same sets Patty, Manu, Murray are running, are the same sets Parker will be running when he returns. Parker doesn't have it in him anymore to be anymore creative -- hasn't been the case for 3 years now. But yes, he did shoot out of his mind vs. the Grizzlies in 6 games last year ( shot over 58% from 3 -- that is not sustainable). I'm not going to sit here and value that performance over the small 6 game sample over his game the past 3 years. You can be that delusional fan, but I'm certainly not.

[dabom]

Manu4tres with the sauce.

[dabom]

Tony has been a fucking cancer the last couple of years. Probably down 10 by the first quarter. :lmao

and that's with him playing with Kawhi. Imagine him not. :lol

Even fucking worse. Might have way way way more losses. FACTS. :lmao

[rjv]

Better at what exactly?

There's areas of the PG position (on this team) WITH Kawhi that are more valuable than others. What areas are Parkers strengths and how valuable are those areas when Kawhi is playing?

There's reasons why the Spurs won 3.5/4 games without Parker out of the 5 games vs. Houston. quite frankly, TP is a better ball handler. that has always been one of his greater strengths. that is why he was always so damn fast at getting the ball from baseline to baseline. he also has far more experience and is more of a coach on the floor. he is not great on one on one defense but he knows how to move the player he is defending towards the shot blockers and is a big reason players such as green get their blocked shots. he also has the most reliable in between game so defenders have to honor his shot which helps tremendously on pick and rolls. in the context of leonard being out, our instability at the PG position is a glaring issue. when leonard comes back, unless we want to become an iso offense again, the PG position will still need to be addressed. and this is not an indictment against murray; i want murray to be the starter eventually but he too is suffering from the loss of leonard and a lack of experience. also, murray will get better as his ball handling skills and shooting improve, which i expect them to. it also doesn't help that mills has been so awful.

[dabom]

Anyone who disagrees doesn't watch the fucking Spurs. FACTS. :lol

[dabom]

Porker has been a CANCER even with a healthy team. WTF are people smoking? :lol

[MaNu4Tres]

quite frankly, TP is a better ball handler. that has always been one of his greater strengths. that is why he was always so damn fast at getting the ball from baseline to baseline. he also has far more experience and is more of a coach on the floor. he is not great on one on one defense but he knows how to move the player he is defending towards the shot blockers and is a big reason players such as green get their blocked shots. he also has the most reliable in between game so defenders have to honor his shot which helps tremendously on pick and rolls. in the context of leonard being out, our instability at the PG position is a glaring issue. when leonard comes back, unless we want to become an iso offense again, the PG position will still need to be addressed. and this is not an indictment against murray; i want murray to be the starter eventually but he too is suffering from the loss of leonard and a lack of experience. also, murray will get better as his ball handling skills and shooting improve, which i expect them to. it also doesn't help that mills has been so awful.

Our instability at the PG position even existed WITH Parker for the past 3 years due to his regression and his inability to make consistent positive impact in games from, not only an eye test perspective, but from an advanced statistics perspective. . Acting like its because Parker is out is somewhat foolish. These days, along with the past 3 years, his greatest strength ( speed, quickness) has been zapped and he's no longer a one man fast break getting easy points in transition. Or no longer than PnR torpedo getting into the paint and finishing (he hardly ever does this anymore). He may be a better ball handler, but these days he can't utilize that strength to get to the areas of the floor he used to because of his inability to turn corners and get inside the defense. If you want him utilizing his ball handling strength by dribbling out on the perimeter in PnRs getting stonewalled or taking contested 18-20 footers then you're not being very wise.

[dabom]

Our instability at the PG position even existed WITH Parker for the past 3 years due to his regression and his inability to make consistent positive impact in games from, not only an eye test perspective, but from an advanced statistics perspective. . Acting like its because Parker is out is somewhat foolish. These days, along with the past 3 years, his greatest strength ( speed, quickness) has been zapped and he's no longer a one man fast break getting easy points in transition. Or no longer than PnR torpedo getting into the paint and finishing (he hardly ever does this anymore). He may be a better ball handler, but these days he can't utilize that strength to get to the areas of the floor he used to because of his inability to turn corners and get inside the defense. If you want him utilizing his ball handling strength by dribbling out on the perimeter in PnRs getting stonewalled or taking contested 18-20 footers then you're not being very wise.

Reality.

[dabom]

Too many fucking posters live in fantasy world. I loved Parker at one point as our PG in 2012/2013 seasons. He hasn't brought anything to the table these past couple of years besides an injury plagued POS player.

[dabom]

I even predicted Tony would get injured last year. I'm always right on that bastard. :lol

[dabom]

I now know which porker fluffer mods used to delete all those porker threads. :lmao rjv

[dabom]

You outed yourself brah. :tu

[rjv]

Our instability at the PG position even existed WITH Parker for the past 3 years due to his regression and his inability to make consistent positive impact in games from, not only an eye test perspective, but from an advanced statistics perspective. . Acting like its because Parker is out is somewhat foolish. These days, along with the past 3 years, his greatest strength ( speed, quickness) has been zapped and he's no longer a one man fast break getting easy points in transition. Or no longer than PnR torpedo getting into the paint and finishing (he hardly ever does this anymore). He may be a better ball handler, but these days he can't utilize that strength to get to the areas of the floor he used to because of his inability to turn corners and get inside the defense. If you want him utilizing his ball handling strength by dribbling out on the perimeter in PnRs getting stonewalled or taking contested 18-20 footers then you're not being very wise. i think you are inferring way too much here. it's not my thread so i can't post for the others, but my original post was just to express my opinion that parker's absence hurt us because there are some things he brings to the table that others do not. yes, he is no longer quick physically but he is still the best ball-handler of the bunch. we are currently getting killed by turnovers as a result of the current crop of PG's ball-handlers as well as their poor shooting although forbes has been more consistent as of late. your first statement basically agrees with the assertion that there is instability. i haven't made any statements equating parker's return to games won or lost. i simply stated he adds some dimensions to the position that are absent. as to my posts, that is not implying he is the panacea to our woes at this position.

[dabom]

parker is not what he was but he is better than any of the PGs we have at this time. I am not saying potentially because we have some (namely murray) that have the potential to be better even by the end of this season, but there are aspects to tony's game that provide stability to the offense (and defense) that are clearly missing at this time.

:lmao :lmao

[dabom]

This dude is moving the fucking goal post. :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

Damidget melting down :lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

i think you are inferring way too much here. it's not my thread so i can't post for the others, but my original post was just to express my opinion that parker's absence hurt us because there are some things he brings to the table that others do not. yes, he is no longer quick physically but he is still the best ball-handler of the bunch. we are currently getting killed by turnovers as a result of the current crop of PG's ball-handlers as well as their poor shooting although forbes has been more consistent as of late. your first statement basically agrees with the assertion that there is instability. i haven't made any statements equating parker's return to games won or lost. i simply stated he adds some dimensions to the position that are absent. as to my posts, that is not implying he is the panacea to our woes at this position.

In regards to the turnovers, yes Spurs are turning it over way too much. But that's not because of the point guards ball handling. Actually, over the past few years, Parker averaged around the same amount of TO's as Murray/Mills. So there wouldn't be anymore reduction of turnovers with Parker over them two. Spurs turnover problems are happening because they are forcing high low passes over the top or forcing passes in the interior after waiting too long ( Pau, LA, Rudy). Pau has been terrible. All of the front court players have been pretty pathetic passing the ball in the interior-- that's not a PG turnover issue.

[rjv]

:lmao :lmao yeah, that does read worse than intended to. parker is not going to be a savior in any way shape or form and his better days are way behind him. but mills sucks, white is out, forbes and paul are more tweeners than traditional PGs and that leaves murray who is similar to what parker was when he first came in to the league. will parker stay healthy? who the hell knows? is he better than murray. athletically, hell no. but he has experience and he is more of a consistently stable presence on the floor. now, i will be pissed if murray gets a very diminished role by virtue of parker's return as it is my hope that parker comes off the bench and gets minutes similar to manu's. but we have a big problem at the PG position and in my opinion there are still some aspects to that position that parker can bring which the others currently lack.

[rjv]

In regards to the turnovers, yes Spurs are turning it over way too much. But that's not because of the point guards ball handling. Actually, over the past few years, Parker averaged around the same amount of TO's as Murray/Mills. So there wouldn't be anymore reduction of turnovers with Parker over them two. Spurs turnover problems are happening because they are forcing high low passes over the top or forcing passes in the interior after waiting too long ( Pau, LA, Rudy). Pau has been terrible. All of the front court players have been pretty pathetic passing the ball in the interior-- that's not a PG turnover issue. i was thinking more of the times where murray gets his pocket picked because he still hasn't learned how to keep the ball down. he almost seems clumsy with his dribble and overexcited. sometimes, he just flat out loses control of the dribble. and some turnovers are an indirect result of the other not-so-traditional-PG's having to give up the ball to another player because they can't dribble out of a trap, read a defense or they get themselves pinned in.

[dabom]

yeah, that does read worse than intended to. parker is not going to be a savior in any way shape or form and his better days are way behind him. but mills sucks, white is out, forbes and paul are more tweeners than traditional PGs and that leaves murray who is similar to what parker was when he first came in to the league. will parker stay healthy? who the hell knows? is he better than murray. athletically, hell no. but he has experience and he is more of a consistently stable presence on the floor. now, i will be pissed if murray gets a very diminished role by virtue of parker's return as it is my hope that parker comes off the bench and gets minutes similar to manu's. but we have a big problem at the PG position and in my opinion there are still some aspects to that position that parker can bring which the others currently lack.

You keep writing a lot of white noise. Ok so he plays different. Does it translate to wins. Not one bit.

[rjv]

You keep writing a lot of white noise. Ok so he plays different. Does it translate to wins. Not one bit. it may not. i don't want to put a number to it because he is not the same parker of 2013 or so. but for as many guards as we have, we are so vulnerable there. and murray is not going to become an all-star overnight.

[dabom]

it may not. i don't want to put a number to it because he is not the same parker of 2013 or so. but for as many guards as we have, we are so vulnerable there. and murray is not going to become an all-star overnight.

Only consistent players are stars. He isn't one yet. I don't think anyone has said that. It's a learning process that will cost games. I've said that already. But he has flashes of greatness. He will be a good PG in the future.

[rjv]

Only consistent players are stars. He isn't one yet. I don't think anyone has said that. It's a learning process that will cost games. I've said that already. But he has flashes of greatness. He will be a good PG in the future. i completely agree on murray.

[MaNu4Tres]

i was thinking more of the times where murray gets his pocket picked because he still hasn't learned how to keep the ball down. he almost seems clumsy with his dribble and overexcited. sometimes, he just flat out loses control of the dribble. and some turnovers are an indirect result of the other not-so-traditional-PG's having to give up the ball to another player because they can't dribble out of a trap, read a defense or they get themselves pinned in.

Which has happened maybe 3 times in 15 games ( not a huge issue). Murray has actually has done a great job on tightening his game up on both ends. He's no longer forcing it inside in transition when the numbers are against him. He's pulling it back and getting everyone into a half court set.

The PGs on this team don't have a big enough responsibility on offense for ball handling to be a trait that moves the needle. Even when TP comes back, if you want his ball handling to be an edge then he has to have the ball a lot and that's not a good thing.

[rjv]

Which has happened maybe 3 times in 15 games ( not a huge issue). Murray has actually has done a great job on tightening his game up on both ends. He's no longer forcing it inside in transition when the numbers are against him. He's pulling it back and getting everyone into a half court set.

The PGs on this team don't have a big enough responsibility on offense for ball handling to be a trait that moves the needle. Even when TP comes back, if you want his ball handling to be an edge then he has to have the ball a lot and that's not a good thing. i still want to see murray get a better handle on the ball. i agree that we are seeing some gradual growth from murray as well. he's not as hyper coming up the floor on a break and he has learned to reel it back in when he has to. he's even attempted more jump shots even if less than half are falling. as they start to drop for him his confidence will continue to grow as well. as to the possession of the ball in one player's hands, that's more of an issue as to when leonard returns.

[MaNu4Tres]

i still want to see murray get a better handle on the ball. i agree that we are seeing some gradual growth from murray as well. he's not as hyper coming up the floor on a break and he has learned to reel it back in when he has to. he's even attempted more jump shots even if less than half are falling. as they start to drop for him his confidence will continue to grow as well. as to the possession of the ball in one player's hands, that's more of an issue as to when leonard returns.

And all this back and forth comes back to my thoughts that the PG position on this Spurs team does not possess an edge offensively. The point guards are too inconsistent on offense, across the board.

Murray holds the only edge the Spurs have at the position and thats on the defensive end. Parker and Mills dont and cant provide that.

Spurs will be better off and have a higher ceiling playing their strengths and edges.

[rjv]

And all this back and forth comes back to my thoughts that the PG position on this Spurs team does not possess an edge offensively. The point guards are too inconsistent on offense, across the board.

Murray holds the only edge the Spurs have at the position and thats on the defensive end. Parker and Mills dont and cant provide that.

Spurs will be better off and have a higher ceiling playing their strengths and edges.

[Brazil]

my nigg' dabom in panic mode... he knows that TP starting is coming

no need to be stressed out bro, dat sig won't be that bad tbh... :lol

[SAGirl]

my nigg' dabom in panic mode... he knows that TP starting is coming

no need to be stressed out bro, dat sig won't be that bad tbh... :lol
:lmao
But seriously, I am hoping your Boy the Phoenix comes back soon and playing at the level he did last season... I am tempering expectations, it's a huge deal the injury he suffered. He probably will be brought along very carefully.

[TD 21]

And all this back and forth comes back to my thoughts that the PG position on this Spurs team does not possess an edge offensively. The point guards are too inconsistent on offense, across the board.

Murray holds the only edge the Spurs have at the position and thats on the defensive end. Parker and Mills dont and cant provide that.

Spurs will be better off and have a higher ceiling playing their strengths and edges.

Would rather see Parker for an extended stretch (which is happening anyway) when he returns before determining this. He's had a lot of nagging injuries in recent seasons. This extended absence has allowed him to rest, recover and train like never before. There's probably something like a 1% chance that he returns better than the previous 3 seasons, but they need to know unequivocally. As long a shot as it is, it's their hope of having someone who can run an offense.

[Stabula]

No one knows what Parker we'll get but based on his speedy recovery and confidence in interviews I have a good feeling that we'll get a starting caliber point guard.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

In regards to the turnovers, yes Spurs are turning it over way too much. But that's not because of the point guards ball handling. Actually, over the past few years, Parker averaged around the same amount of TO's as Murray/Mills. So there wouldn't be anymore reduction of turnovers with Parker over them two. Spurs turnover problems are happening because they are forcing high low passes over the top or forcing passes in the interior after waiting too long ( Pau, LA, Rudy). Pau has been terrible. All of the front court players have been pretty pathetic passing the ball in the interior-- that's not a PG turnover issue.

This is pretty shallow analysis here. Sure the TO generated from the PG position itself are about the same but there is much more that the PG does than protect the ball directly.

First Patty does not penetrate and kick to the level that Parker does. He is not as proficient in his timing or ball handling. too often you see him slow to initiate the play or dribble it off his leg or the like initiating the play. What results is a pass back to the top and a broken play. You end up with some basic iso or pnr where the weakside defense can easily play off and deflect passes because there is no weakside play beyond spacing. Rotations solve that defensive dilemma.

Patty also does not have mastery of the plays in the offense. Patty is at his best on the two man pnr game where he finds his own shot. Danny has gotten better but without Parker and Kawhi the starters are a bunch of cogs and very few starters.

DM struggles mightily in both of the above regards and cannot shoot. His m2m defense is better but his grasp of the offense and defense still has a ways to go.

It is interesting that you bash Pau in particular given that he turns it over at the same rate as the PG and has a better assist ratio. They are running the offense through him a lot because of the lack of playmakers when Manu is not on the court. This is a new role for him this season whereas last season he was just getting his feet wet. He is assisting at a much better rate than Boris did in the role. As it develops, we could easily see Gasol take advantage of players playing off similar to what Diaw was able to do. Pau can still finish with both hands.

REally though you are missing the point of what is going on. The PG flub the play on the pnr and pass it back to the high post you then criticize the high post for trying to make something happen when things went wrong when the PG scuttled the play. Youre like a chess player that can only see one move ahead.

[dabom]

This is pretty shallow analysis here. Sure the TO generated from the PG position itself are about the same but there is much more that the PG does than protect the ball directly.

First Patty does not penetrate and kick to the level that Parker does. He is not as proficient in his timing or ball handling. too often you see him slow to initiate the play or dribble it off his leg or the like initiating the play. What results is a pass back to the top and a broken play. You end up with some basic iso or pnr where the weakside defense can easily play off and deflect passes because there is no weakside play beyond spacing. Rotations solve that defensive dilemma.

Patty also does not have mastery of the plays in the offense. Patty is at his best on the two man pnr game where he finds his own shot. Danny has gotten better but without Parker and Kawhi the starters are a bunch of cogs and very few starters.

DM struggles mightily in both of the above regards and cannot shoot. His m2m defense is better but his grasp of the offense and defense still has a ways to go.

It is interesting that you bash Pau in particular given that he turns it over at the same rate as the PG and has a better assist ratio. They are running the offense through him a lot because of the lack of playmakers when Manu is not on the court. This is a new role for him this season whereas last season he was just getting his feet wet. He is assisting at a much better rate than Boris did in the role. As it develops, we could easily see Gasol take advantage of players playing off similar to what Diaw was able to do. Pau can still finish with both hands.

REally though you are missing the point of what is going on. The PG flub the play on the pnr and pass it back to the high post you then criticize the high post for trying to make something happen when things went wrong when the PG scuttled the play. Youre like a chess player that can only see one move ahead.

All of that porker fluffling and he is still a fucking CANCER. :lmao

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And all this back and forth comes back to my thoughts that the PG position on this Spurs team does not possess an edge offensively. The point guards are too inconsistent on offense, across the board.

Murray holds the only edge the Spurs have at the position and thats on the defensive end. Parker and Mills dont and cant provide that.

Spurs will be better off and have a higher ceiling playing their strengths and edges.

Our PG don't have an edge but the 3 and 4 certainly do as well as the bench. What we need are competence from the other 3 spots given how much those two are used.

DM is incompetent on offense. He struggles to run sets which breaks plays and he cannot shoot. That becomes an issue as teams play off of him and muck up passing lanes and double team postups and drives which results in turnovers and bad shots.

Further DM is better at m2m defense but his rotations and team defense is still very much a work in progress. I like him a lot but he needs to continue to develop as anointing him now helps no one but the other team.

[dabom]

PGs on the Spurs MVP>DM>Broken down Enrique Porker. :lol

Facts.

[dabom]

Porker getting injured for the playoffs per par. Meanwhile Patty true warrior is not an injury prone pussy. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Never got into the tribalism surrounding Parker; rooting against a guy returning from injury I simply cannot do. He was playing at a very high level before getting injured. I have no experience with the tendon he ruptured but it was only a rupture and the surgery appears to have been a success.

Patty and DM have their place. DM's ceiling is very high but he is extremely raw and still needs to develop. Patty is always going to need penetrators to assist him as he is not a threat at the rim unless he is wide open. Teams still pack the paint.