Is 25 y/o Kawhi better than 25 y/o LeBron James tbh ?

[Brazil]

In the Manu being a bad teammate thread, I was making a parallel of what Kawhi is being asked to carry at 25 y/o compared to what LeBron carried at same age. Doing so it got me wondering if Kawhi has a case of being a better player than 25 y/o LeBron tbh ?

Obviously looking at raw RS season stat would be a mistake but during those 8 PO games, kawhi basically did it all with the help of a 34 old PG, in this configuration both player are having comparable load and responsability

[BSfromTX]

In some aspects yes, but Kawi doesn't see the floor as well and has to think more when setting up teammates. He just doesn't have a natural passing ability. That and size/strength difference keeps James slightly ahead

[Kool Bob Love]

:rollin

[SPURt]

It's too early to tell but so far it's pretty even. The Cavs were starting The Big Zombie in Shaquille O'Neal and lost in the conference semis to Boston. That Cavs team also won 61 RS games and Lebron and Kawhi look similar statistically. The biggest difference between the two seasons will be what happens this round.

I'd argue Kawhi is sporting a better team than the 2010 Cavs against a worse opponent than the 2010 Celtics. Lebron had an up and down series but his Game 5 at home with the series tied 2-2 the King turned into the Queen. Celtics closed out at home in game 6. To deem this a better season than Lebron he'd need to split the series in Houston then take Game 5 at home.

So far, I'd take 25 yr old Kawhi over 25 yr old Lebron. Lebron would've been a better creator and passer but in this NBA I value Kawhi's slight edge on perimeter D and his ability to shoot the three more. Fun fact, Danny Green was briefly a teammate of 25 yr old Lebron.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Gotta go with 25 year old LeBron for now

[BSfromTX]

Another question to ask, is how would Kawi do with that calves team from the start of his career to that point?

I love kawi, but he has had the benefit of a lot of great mentoring and coaching. Give the Spurs rooky lebron instead of Kawi, and Spurs would have made lebron better

[SpursFan86]

LeBron at 24 carried the shitty Cavs to the ECF while putting up 35/9/7 on great efficiency while posting absurd advanced numbers (37.4 PER, .399 WS/48, 18.2 BPM). Granted, Kawhi is putting up similarly dominant numbers this postseason, but 1) Kawhi has played 3 less games, and I imagine his numbers will drop a bit, and 2) LeBron was noticeably better in the regular season. Yeah - postseason is where it counts...but you can only put so much stock in a 8-10 game sample size.

Sorry, but no. Kawhi is absolutely incredible, but I think it'd be pretty foolish to say that right now he's better than LeBron was in '09 or '10. That's not an insult to Kawhi at all though - just a testament to how freakish LeBron was.

I mean, put it this way: most people now still put current LeBron ahead of Kawhi, no? LeBron in '09 or '10 was better than LeBron is now.

[SpursforSix]

Leonard isn't an assclown. Give me Leonard.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz7RhqYho90

[SPURt]

Another question to ask, is how would Kawi do with that calves team from the start of his career to that point?

I love kawi, but he has had the benefit of a lot of great mentoring and coaching. Give the Spurs rooky lebron instead of Kawi, and Spurs would have made lebron better
So hard to say. I think Lebron would've become a better shooter without question but would've had worse statistical seasons. Both players obviously have that drive to be great that isn't limited to a system.

[r0drig0lac]

no imo

[Joseph Kony]

No way, I love Kawhi but c'mon, LeBron dropped 29 on the 4th/OT on the pistons in the playoffs at 21 and led his garbage team to the Finals by himself. Kawhi is a great player, 2nd best in the league imo, but to eclipse lebron at any point is a bit much to ask as imo Lebron is a top 3 all time player at this point... at 25 he was at 29/8.6/7/1.6/1 shooting 50% with a 31 PER :wow I wish Kawhi was averaging those numbers tbh

[dabom]

At 22 Kawhi had FMVP. :lmao

[SpursforSix]

No way, I love Kawhi but c'mon, LeBron dropped 29 on the 4th/OT on the pistons in the playoffs at 21 and led his garbage team to the Finals by himself. Kawhi is a great player, 2nd best in the league imo, but to eclipse lebron at any point is a bit much to ask as imo Lebron is a top 3 all time player at this point... at 25 he was at 29/8.6/7/1.6/1 shooting 50% with a 31 PER :wow I wish Kawhi was averaging those numbers tbh

Yeah...good points...but fuck Lebron.

[BSfromTX]

So hard to say. I think Lebron would've become a better shooter without question but would've had worse statistical seasons. Both players obviously have that drive to be great that isn't limited to a system.

Tim would have taught him mental strength and how to take advantage on the block (something lebron lacked early on)
pop would have gotten more defense out of him

But I do agree it's hard to say. It's not apples to apples really

[Brazil]

In some aspects yes, but Kawi doesn't see the floor as well and has to think more when setting up teammates. He just doesn't have a natural passing ability. That and size/strength difference keeps James slightly ahead

I hear you but he never had to be the ball handler, now and surprisingly he is avering near 5 assists per game this PO and already had a 8 assists game. With Parker out he will do that more, he may surprise us on that regard.

[Brazil]

No way, I love Kawhi but c'mon, LeBron dropped 29 on the 4th/OT on the pistons in the playoffs at 21 and led his garbage team to the Finals by himself. Kawhi is a great player, 2nd best in the league imo, but to eclipse lebron at any point is a bit much to ask as imo Lebron is a top 3 all time player at this point... at 25 he was at 29/8.6/7/1.6/1 shooting 50% with a 31 PER :wow I wish Kawhi was averaging those numbers tbh

But again Kawhi never had neither usage neither green light from Pop to do so tbh...Those 8 games he is at 30/7/5/2 shooting 56% with a PER of 37!!

Sample size is small but this is the first time he is being asked to carry as much as LeBron the leat we can say is that he is amazing so far

[Joseph Kony]

But again Kawhi never had neither usage neither green light from Pop to do so tbh...Those 8 games he is at 30/7/5/2 shooting 56% with a PER of 37!!

Sample size is small but this is the first time he is being asked to carry as much as LeBron the leat we can say is that he is amazing so farof course, i dont think saying he isnt as good as one of the top 3 players in league history is a slight to him. its a compliment that the comparison can even be made imo. lebron is a massive faggot but one cannot deny his greatness tbh. Kawhi has been incredible though, cant wait to see how he responds w/o parker tonight

[RD2191]

But again Kawhi never had neither usage neither green light from Pop to do so tbh...Those 8 games he is at 30/7/5/2 shooting 56% with a PER of 37!!

Sample size is small but this is the first time he is being asked to carry as much as LeBron the leat we can say is that he is amazing so far

TBH. LeBron has always been a point forward. Kawhi bot so much.

[dabom]

Kawhi is a jordan player. He needs a pippen type player.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

NOOOOO! And it's not even ckose.

[SpursFan86]

At 22 Kawhi had FMVP. :lmao

Serious question - if you put 22 year-old LeBron on the Spurs in 2014, do they still ring? Does LeBron win FMVP?

[dabom]

Serious question - if you put 22 year-old LeBron on the Spurs in 2014, do they still ring? Does LeBron win FMVP?

22 year old lebrony vs Peak Almost-3-peat lebron. Dude would get destroyed by peak Lebron. :lmao

[Brazil]

of course, i dont think saying he isnt as good as one of the top 3 players in league history is a slight to him. its a compliment that the comparison can even be made imo. lebron is a massive faggot but one cannot deny his greatness tbh. Kawhi has been incredible though, cant wait to see how he responds w/o parker tonight

fair enough

[Brazil]

Thing is today I see both comparable in terms of scoring efficiency, Kawhi is more of a SF type of scorer and LeBron is playing like a PF with a solid 3 points but at the end their efficiency is pretty comparable tbh... kawhi is a better FT shooter but I believe LeBron is harder to defend.

LeBron is for sure the better ball handler of both, dude is a PF playing PG so yeah. Now I believe Kawhi is a better defender imho don't get me wrong LeBron when on is a great defender but more unconsistent again imho

Kawhi is a fucking amazing, I never thought he could dominate POs games like he is today with a superstar kind of load and responsability tbh

[dabom]

If only Kawhi could collude with another top 5 talent and top 10 talent at the time in their primes. :lol

[Brazil]

Parker injury sucks big time now there is nothing we can do about it... What Manu meant is now that Parker is out this is the opportunity to see of what Kawhi is made with a roster worst than 2005 cavs and a tougher opponent.

Like Parker would say:

https://assets.macysassets.com/navapp/dyn_img/cat_splash/0302116_CC_WATCH_VP_TISSOT_BRAND_SHOP_feat_bnr_2_1 226381.png

[Brazil]

This is Kawhi time baby... get your seatbelts fastened

[Galileo]

LeBron at 24 carried the shitty Cavs to the ECF while putting up 35/9/7 on great efficiency while posting absurd advanced numbers (37.4 PER, .399 WS/48, 18.2 BPM). Granted, Kawhi is putting up similarly dominant numbers this postseason, but 1) Kawhi has played 3 less games, and I imagine his numbers will drop a bit, and 2) LeBron was noticeably better in the regular season. Yeah - postseason is where it counts...but you can only put so much stock in a 8-10 game sample size.

Sorry, but no. Kawhi is absolutely incredible, but I think it'd be pretty foolish to say that right now he's better than LeBron was in '09 or '10. That's not an insult to Kawhi at all though - just a testament to how freakish LeBron was.

I mean, put it this way: most people now still put current LeBron ahead of Kawhi, no? LeBron in '09 or '10 was better than LeBron is now.

The eastern conference sucks and has sucked for 20 years. It has inflated Lebron's stats for his entire career.

[dabom]

The numbers guy telling it how it is. :wow

[RD2191]

The eastern conference sucks and has sucked for 20 years. It has inflated Lebron's stats for his entire career.

TBFH

[hitmanyr2k]

No way, I love Kawhi but c'mon, LeBron dropped 29 on the 4th/OT on the pistons in the playoffs at 21 and led his garbage team to the Finals by himself. Kawhi is a great player, 2nd best in the league imo, but to eclipse lebron at any point is a bit much to ask as imo Lebron is a top 3 all time player at this point... at 25 he was at 29/8.6/7/1.6/1 shooting 50% with a 31 PER :wow I wish Kawhi was averaging those numbers tbh

That's a myth lol. The Cavs were playing in one of the shittiest Eastern conferences of all-time. Lebron shot terribly for most of the playoffs and his teammates chipped in at key moments. That Game 5 in the ECF was epic though.

[bic50]

Eh I don't know about that.

[99 Problems]

This is Kawhi time baby... get your seatbelts fastened

This is the Captain, clear the runway, Kawa is taking off.

[SpursforSix]

This is the Captain, clear the runway, Kawa is taking off.

Black this mother fucker.

[Brazil]

26/10 and 7 assists... damn... yeah give the freaking ball to kawhi lebron Jordan pippen Leonard tbh

[dabom]

26/10 and 7 assists... damn... yeah give the freaking ball to kawhi lebron Jordan pippen Leonard tbh

Top 10 poster. :cry :tu

[skulls138]

Lets not forget that Kawhi has Pops. If you want to have a serious discussion about it, you cant discount that. Having said that, Lebron can be manipulative which could be counterproductive to a potential good coach. Skill on skill I think Lebrons got it physically and easily but Kawhis got the three pointer and the Kobe-esque midrange. Temperamentally is weird because Kawhi seems on one hand to be more coachable yet more focused, while Lebron is, to me, manipulative but positive and friendly. I think they are equal in IQ

Altogether I feel it comes down to Kawhis focus vs Lebrons physical skill.

[dabom]

Kawhi has Pops. :lmao

[skulls138]

Making sense :lmao

[mudyez]

I still can't get over Larry Bird winning Executive Of The Year Honors, the same season he traded away Kawhi Leonard (+Bertans).

[buttsR4rebounding]

I still can't get over Larry Bird winning Executive Of The Year Honors, the same season he traded away Kawhi Leonard (+Bertans).

Just shows that the majority of the league's execs would have done the same thing. :claw

[Vito Corleone]

Tim Duncan at 25 was better than LeBron at 25

Kawhi at 25 is a better defender than LeBron is at any time in his career. Lebron however at 25 is a much better assist man, and passer. LeBron also was a slightly better scorer at 25 than Kawhi is now. Kawhi is a better 3pt shooter and free throw shooter than LeBron has ever been.

I still give LeBron the edge as a rebounder while Kawhi better at getting steals.

It's a lot closer than I thought but I still give LeBron the edge.

[Horse]

How about Fuck Lebron I'm tired of that cramped up cry baby pussy faggot.

[Thomas82]

Tim Duncan at 25 was better than LeBron at 25

Kawhi at 25 is a better defender than LeBron is at any time in his career. Lebron however at 25 is a much better assist man, and passer. LeBron also was a slightly better scorer at 25 than Kawhi is now. Kawhi is a better 3pt shooter and free throw shooter than LeBron has ever been.

I still give LeBron the edge as a rebounder while Kawhi better at getting steals.

It's a lot closer than I thought but I still give LeBron the edge.

Good post!! I agree with all of it. Oh, and people forget just how good Tim Duncan was at 25.

[Arcadian]

Tim Duncan at 25 was better than LeBron at 25

YES. Duncan was probably the best 25-yo player ever. He was already the equivalent of most veterans at 21, so by 25 he was a perfectly polished, complete player. He even got his FT% up to 80 in '02.

For me it's a tossup between Kawhi and Lebron. If I need more defense it's Kawhi, and if I need more assists it's Lebron. But I'd definitely take Duncan over both.

[313]

YES. Duncan was probably the best 25-yo player ever.
25 y/o MJ averaged 32-8-8-2.9, 31 PER, 19.8 WS, 12.6 BPM

crazy that's not even his best season :lol

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kawhi+Leonard&player_id1_select=Kawhi+Leonard&y1=2017&player_id1=leonaka01&player_id2_hint=Tim+Duncan&player_id2_select=Tim+Duncan&y2=2002&player_id2=duncati01&player_id3_hint=LeBron+James&player_id3_select=LeBron+James&y3=2010&player_id3=jamesle01&player_id4_hint=Michael+Jordan&player_id4_select=Michael+Jordan&y4=1989&player_id4=jordami01&player_id5_hint=Kevin+Durant&player_id5_select=Kevin+Durant&y5=2014&player_id5=duranke01&player_id6_hint=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id6_select=Shaquille+O%27Neal&y6=1998&player_id6=onealsh01

comparing Kawhi, Tim, Shaq, MJ, LeBron, Kevin Durant all at 25

[jermaine]

Fuck Labron!!! This bitch has always cried for help an continue to... Kawhi just tried to get better...

[Brazil]

Tim Duncan at 25 was better than LeBron at 25

Kawhi at 25 is a better defender than LeBron is at any time in his career. Lebron however at 25 is a much better assist man, and passer. LeBron also was a slightly better scorer at 25 than Kawhi is now. Kawhi is a better 3pt shooter and free throw shooter than LeBron has ever been.

I still give LeBron the edge as a rebounder while Kawhi better at getting steals.

It's a lot closer than I thought but I still give LeBron the edge.

:tu

[Proxy]

KL 1 Ring 1 FMVP
LBJ 0 Ring 0 FMVP

tee hee

[PopTheGOAT]

To Lebron's credit, if he came up in the Spurs system with big 3 and Pop to guide him, he might be considered the GOAT already. When comparing Kawhi and Lebron's natural ability, it's Lebron by a wide margin. But you also have to credit Kawhi for taking advantage of the situation and becoming great. Kawhi definitely had more help getting to where he is at 25. Only considering their abilities at 25, and ignoring how they got there, the difference between the two actually isn't too much. LeBron still gets the edge imo, but for Kawhi to even be close is very impressive.

[jimbo]

Lebron was 25 7 years ago? So last year he was on the cavs/first year in miami. Bron was only 22 when he shit on the Pistons and got to the finals.

No, Kawhi was not better than that. Kiwi is actually in a weird place offense-wise right now. For all the years we shit on Kobe, Kiwi is just a lesser version of Kobe on offense. So it's hard for Spurfan to shit on Kobe while praising Kiwi's offense.

[tholdren]

I hate LeBron but no. James would be the best player ever if his bb iq wasn't so low.

[UZER]

I hate LeBron but no. James would be the best player ever if his bb iq wasn't so low.

He's never faced consistent double teams. LeBron has been facing them his whole life. Now that he is, he has to learn how to use that to an advantage.

[DMC]

:lol no

[DMC]

Lebron was 25 7 years ago? So last year he was on the cavs/first year in miami. Bron was only 22 when he shit on the Pistons and got to the finals.

No, Kawhi was not better than that. Kiwi is actually in a weird place offense-wise right now. For all the years we shit on Kobe, Kiwi is just a lesser version of Kobe on offense. So it's hard for Spurfan to shit on Kobe while praising Kiwi's offense.

Shut your filthy whore mouth