Our Dear Leader thinks insurance can cost $15 a month for life

[baseline bum]

Are you fucking kidding me? We basically have a low information voter running the nation. Or even worse an angry old man who is going completely senile. How can anyone in his right mind think health insurance could ever cost $15 a month?

http://www.economist.com/Trumptranscript


Insurance is, you’re 20 years old, you just graduated from college, and you start paying $15 a month for the rest of your life and by the time you’re 70, and you really need it, you’re still paying the same amount and that’s really insurance.

[DMC]

Pretty sure Trump never saw a medical bill in his life. Let them eat cake if they are starving.

[Reck]

By getting one of those trusty Christian healthcare plan like rmt. It can be done.

[spurraider21]

silly baseline bum he's just following through on his promise to cover EVERYBODY with cheaper and better care than they're getting now

[baseline bum]

Please rmt, defend this. Tell me how Trump is going to make health insurance $15 a month.

[Adam Lambert]

worst president ever

[Spurminator]

If $15, why not $0?

[rmt]

By getting one of those trusty Christian healthcare plan like rmt. It can be done.

Is this not a message board to share ideas? I guess you guys who mock the health sharing plans used by over half a million people also mock Amish people who don't use insurance at all. What a concept - if my barn burns down, my fellow Amish help me rebuild my barn - same as I would for them. What exactly is wrong with a group of people pooling together their resources for a specific purpose? Whatever problems they had at the beginning have probably been resolved by safeguards and yes, it's a whole lot cheaper than insurance - no middleman, no profit, and a pool of non-smoking, non-drinking, non-druggies, non-promiscuous members. Or is it that some of you just can't stand the thought that others have ideas opposing theirs - maybe you think that your way is the best/only way? Well, have fun with those thousands of dollars in premiums per month.

[clambake]

Please rmt, defend this. Tell me how Trump is going to make health insurance $15 a month.

you haven't heard about the new wing and a prayer........with a dash of negotiating insurance?

[baseline bum]

Is this not a message board to share ideas? I guess you guys who mock the health sharing plans used by over half a million people also mock Amish people who don't use insurance at all. What a concept - if my barn burns down, my fellow Amish help me rebuild my barn - same as I would for them. What exactly is wrong with a group of people pooling together their resources for a specific purpose? Whatever problems they had at the beginning have probably been resolved by safeguards and yes, it's a whole lot cheaper than insurance - no middleman, no profit, and a pool of non-smoking, non-drinking, non-druggies, non-promiscuous members. Or is it that some of you just can't stand the thought that others have ideas opposing theirs - maybe you think that your way is the best/only way? Well, have fun with those thousands of dollars in premiums per month.

What do you think of Trump's idea that healthcare can cost $15 a month, fixed over a person's lifetime?

[clambake]

why would the amish re-build your asian barn?

[rmt]

Please rmt, defend this. Tell me how Trump is going to make health insurance $15 a month.

I'm not wasting my time defending or making myself crazy over every word that comes out of Trump's mouth. I'll leave that last part to so many of you on this board.

[baseline bum]

I'm not wasting my time defending or making myself crazy over every word that comes out of Trump's mouth. I'll leave that last part to so many of you on this board.

Is Donald Trump stupid? Is Donald Trump senile? Or is Donald Trump a conman? Donald Trump says health insurance can cost $15 a month so it has to be one of these choices. Which one is it?

[Spurminator]

I'm not wasting my time defending or making myself crazy over every word that comes out of Trump's mouth.

So basically you're going to just ignore the things he says that don't compute with the reasons you voted for him.

[rmt]

You guys want transparency don't you? Forgive me if every thought that comes out of Trump's mouth is stupid, senile, meant to con you out of something. At least, it's not hidden on some 30,000 deleted emails for me to guess what was on those emails or why she felt the need to set up her own private server.

[baseline bum]

You guys want transparency don't you? Forgive me if every thought that comes out of Trump's mouth is stupid, senile, meant to con you out of something. At least, it's not hidden on some 30,000 deleted emails for me to guess what was on those emails or why she felt the need to set up her own private server.

Is Donald Trump stupid? Is Donald Trump senile? Or is Donald Trump a conman? Donald Trump says health insurance can cost $15 a month so it has to be one of these choices. Which one is it?

[clambake]

hillary is dead. why is that your "go to" defense?

[Adam Lambert]

lmao "but her emails"

[clambake]

wild cobra has probably got his eyes on you already.

are you single?

[baseline bum]

rmt pussing out here when it's crystal clear that either (1) Donald Trump is mentally unable to comprehend any policy or (2) he's just a crook telling boldfaced lies that Trumptards like her will swallow because of the magic (R) by Trump's name.

[Adam Lambert]

trump admits to firing an fbi director because he was investigating the trump campaign
trump lets russian media into the oval office but not american media
trump lies about voter fraud
trump lies about being wiretapped
trump refuses to release tax returns
trump family offers visas in exchange for real estate investments
trump on pace to outspend 8 years of obama personal expenses in less than a year
trump tries to pass healthcare legislation he didnt read
trump says health insurance can cost $15 per month


"but hillarys emails"

[rmt]

rmt pussing out here when it's crystal clear that either (1) Donald Trump is mentally unable to comprehend any policy or (2) he's just a crook telling boldfaced lies that Trumptards like her will swallow because of the magic (R) by Trump's name.

Didn't you think that he was mentally unstable, unfit, inexperienced, etc, etc long ago? Why should this surprise you now? And he's barely, if, a Republican as the establishment, Bushes, Ryan, McConnell have said from way back in the campaign. But maybe only a crazy, egotistic, billionaire would have the guts to withstand all this criticism, insults, etc. Any other sane person would have caved a long time ago.

[baseline bum]

Didn't you think that he was mentally unstable, unfit, inexperienced, etc, etc long ago? Why should this surprise you now? And he's barely, if, a Republican as the establishment, Bushes, Ryan, McConnell have said from way back in the campaign. But maybe only a crazy, egotistic, billionaire would have the guts to withstand all this criticism, insults, etc. Any other sane person would have caved a long time ago.

Instead of answering the fucking question I keep asking you you start whining about the media.

Is Donald Trump stupid? Is Donald Trump senile? Or is Donald Trump a conman? Donald Trump says health insurance can cost $15 a month so it has to be one of these choices. Which one is it?

[rmt]

Instead of answering the fucking question I keep asking you you start whining about the media.

Is Donald Trump stupid? Is Donald Trump senile? Or is Donald Trump a conman? Donald Trump says health insurance can cost $15 a month so it has to be one of these choices. Which one is it?

Where exactly did I even mention the media - much less whine about them?

This man was stupid enough, senile enough and so much of a con man as to get what 60+million people to vote for him and become POTUS? Not so stupid or so senile I guess.

[Adam Lambert]

yeah smart donald did that all by himself

[baseline bum]

Where exactly did I even mention the media - much less whine about them?

This man was stupid enough, senile enough and so much of a con man as to get what 60+million people to vote for him and become POTUS? Not so stupid or so senile I guess.

You were referring to the media when talking about all the criticism and insults thrown Trump's way. So this time instead of answering the question you pull out the electoral map. :lmao

Is Donald Trump stupid? Is Donald Trump senile? Or is Donald Trump a conman? Donald Trump says health insurance can cost $15 a month so it has to be one of these choices. Which one is it?

[Adam Lambert]

hes an idiot who appealed to idiots because he "tells it like it is" and doesnt sound all smart about it. retarded people love that shit. makes them believe they can amount to something some day.

[florige]

hes an idiot who appealed to idiots because he "tells it like it is" and doesnt sound all smart about it. retarded people love that shit. makes them believe they can amount to something some day.



This. He talks like a retard but because he keeps it "real" that makes him ok and someone I am proud to have voted for. Wow....:bang

[Adam Lambert]

its also hilarious that his "telling it like it is" usually involves telling an actual lie.

[baseline bum]

:lol rmt refusing to answer the question even though one of the biggest things Trump campaigned on was how great and how cheap the healthcare he was going to provide for everyone in America was going to be.

[Monostradamus]

hes an idiot who appealed to idiots because he "tells it like it is" and doesnt sound all smart about it. retarded people love that shit. makes them believe they can amount to something some day.
It's the largest example of the Dunning Kruger effect the world has seen.

[Trainwreck2100]

Is Donald Trump stupid? Is Donald Trump senile? Or is Donald Trump a conman? Donald Trump says health insurance can cost $15 a month so it has to be one of these choices. Which one is it?

stupid

[TeyshaBlue]

$500 on con man, Alex.

[TeyshaBlue]

Although with single payer/universal, it absolutely could.

[resistanze]

:lol

[Will Hunting]

hes an idiot who appealed to idiots because he "tells it like it is" and doesnt sound all smart about it. retarded people love that shit. makes them believe they can amount to something some day.
This tbh.

"He sounds like someone I'd wanna have a beer with!!"

[spurraider21]

This tbh.

"He sounds like someone I'd wanna have a beer with!!"
He was definitely the candidate i most wanted to throw a beer at.

[SnakeBoy]

Most people on this board think healthcare should/could be free

[baseline bum]

Most people on this board think healthcare should/could be free

Oh fuck off with your strawman.

[SnakeBoy]

Oh fuck off with your strawman.

Free college too

[baseline bum]

Free college too

So is Donald Trump stupid? Is Donald Trump senile? Or is Donald Trump a conman? Donald Trump says health insurance can cost $15 a month so it has to be one of these choices. Which one is it?

[TeyshaBlue]

Most people on this board think healthcare should/could be free

Should be? Arguably.
Could be? Not a fucking doubt.

[SnakeBoy]

Should be? Arguably.
Could be? Not a fucking doubt.

Not possible. Sorry TB, it isn't free anywhere in the world.

[SnakeBoy]

So is Donald Trump stupid? Is Donald Trump senile? Or is Donald Trump a conman? Donald Trump says health insurance can cost $15 a month so it has to be one of these choices. Which one is it?

Stupid?...well that's what Democrats always say about the person who beats them.
Senile?...I haven't heard anything to make me think that.
Conman?...fuck yeah, a really good one.

[Will Hunting]

Not possible. Sorry TB, it isn't free anywhere in the world.

It's a lot cheaper on a per capita basis in every other modern country than it is in America though.

[baseline bum]

Conman?...fuck yeah, a really good one.

Thank you for not dancing around the question like rmt. I agree.

[baseline bum]

It's a lot cheaper on a per capita basis in every other modern country than it is in America though.

True, but what other country do you see shit like this?

http://i.imgur.com/lPxbaq2.jpg

[Will Hunting]

True, but what other country do you see shit like this?

https://teamlean.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/scooter-in-a-drive-thru.jpg

:lol I was in Florida a few weeks ago and the amount of rascal scooters people were driving up and down the street was frightening, there was even a couple driving side-by-side :lmao

[Will Hunting]

I still don't understand why Republicans think medicare is a good program but for whatever reason providing the same fucking service to younger people who actually still contribute to society would be the death of America.

[baseline bum]

I still don't understand why Republicans think medicare is a good program but for whatever reason providing the same fucking service to younger people who actually still contribute to society would be the death of America.

Do Republicans think Medicare is a good program? I don't think they do. Ryan just wanted to keep it for seniors who skew heavily Republican while ripping it from all the younger generations.

[TeyshaBlue]

Not possible. Sorry TB, it isn't free anywhere in the world.

Not free anywhere else? Big whoop.
There are a few things we can do that others cannot. This should be one of them.
And to put a fine point on it, nothing of value is truly free. There will always be funding on the backside (taxes). But up front should be free. Period.

[TeyshaBlue]

True, but what other country do you see shit like this?

http://i.imgur.com/lPxbaq2.jpg

That's a sweet ride.

[TeyshaBlue]

In short, Trump could be correct.


Stranger things have happened (Hello Mavs 2011)

[Will Hunting]

Do Republicans think Medicare is a good program? I don't think they do. Ryan just wanted to keep it for seniors who skew heavily Republican while ripping it from all the younger generations.

Yes but the average Republican doesn't have a fucking clue that's what he was trying to do and if they did they wouldn't support it.

Exhibit god-knows-what showing how fucked up our healthcare system is: I just found out since my uncle is in the hospital that they catheterize all old people with limited mobility, regardless of whether or not there's an actual medical reason for the catheter, since that way they don't need to help them go to the bathroom and can staff fewer nurses. Is this something everyone knows and if so, why am I the only one who thinks that's really fucked up?

[rmt]

I still don't understand why Republicans think medicare is a good program but for whatever reason providing the same fucking service to younger people who actually still contribute to society would be the death of America.

If people pay into Medicare all their working years, receive benefits when they turn 65 (in traditional Medicare, there are no limits to the Part B 20% co-pays so they still have to buy Medigap or Medicare Advantage) and the program is in trouble, what do you think it would cost to cover everyone from birth to death 100% and it be sustainable? Much more than anyone in America (except those with really serious conditions like brain tumor or cancer) would be willing to pay.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/medicare-guide-original-medicare-covers-80-part-b-article-1.2436004

[baseline bum]

Yes but the average Republican doesn't have a fucking clue that's what he was trying to do and if they did they wouldn't support it.


Not sure I agree. Older Republican voters seem to hate the younger generations.

[Will Hunting]

If people pay into Medicare all their working years, receive benefits when they turn 65 (in traditional Medicare, there are no limits to the Part B 20% co-pays so they still have to buy Medigap or Medicare Advantage) and the program is in trouble, what do you think it would cost to cover everyone from birth to death 100% and it be sustainable? Much more than anyone in America (except those with really serious conditions like brain tumor or cancer) would be willing to pay.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/medicare-guide-original-medicare-covers-80-part-b-article-1.2436004

Then why is healthcare significantly cheaper in every country that uses a single payer system than it is here? Shouldn't your beloved private pay system be resulting in cheaper overall costs?

[TeyshaBlue]

Not sure I agree. Older Republican voters seem to hate the younger generations.
Not all young 'uns. Just you.:lol

[rmt]

Remember now, a significant portion of the population is under 18 and not working plus college students not contributing.

[Will Hunting]

Remember now, a significant portion of the population is under 18 and not working plus college students not contributing.

You think it's different in the single payer countries that have a more affordable and solvent healthcare system?

Fuck, Sweden provides healthcare and a fucking stipend for living expenses to its college students.

[baseline bum]

Not all young 'uns. Just you.:lol

:cry you're still mad at me for my boutons troll? :cry

gfy tb

[TeyshaBlue]

Consider myself fucked and unfuckable.:ihit

[Will Hunting]

Talk to anyone from Western Europe or Canada and conservative or liberal, regardless of where their other political views stand, they'll say the thing about America they understand the least is that we actually think letting a few insurance companies that have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders control our costs and premiums somehow makes healthcare cheaper.

[TeyshaBlue]

Insurance companies are just the tip of the iceberg. GPOs, hewing to the same "shareholder value" principals, are fucking cabals.

[rmt]

So who pays for new drugs and medical devices? Do we copy from whom (like the rest of the world)? And what happens to all these European countries when they invite in hundreds of thousands of refugees into their countries. Will they be able to maintain all these "free" services? Is Germany gonna contribute their fair share to NATO or continue with their 1.19% of GDP?

[TeyshaBlue]

The drug companies seem to be able to handle their R&D budgets just fine while burning shit tons of cash on advertising and Dr. subsidies. Were we able to scale their activities back to developing good meds and selling them on a truly open market (fuck borders), you will see them doing just fine.

[AaronY]

Not free anywhere else? Big whoop.
There are a few things we can do that others cannot. This should be one of them.
And to put a fine point on it, nothing of value is truly free. There will always be funding on the backside (taxes). But up front should be free. Period.
It's harder here because the military and defense is like 15-20% of our budget iirc. If you look at percents European countries and Canada for example have more money to go around since they don't go around jerking off to and idolizing their military. It's like a fetish people have for us having a strong military and that being a defining American characteristic. For whatever reason it gives some people a hardon to know America has the most powerful military. Even if dems get in and shrink it Rs will just jack it back up again when they retake office so well never have defense spending be comparable to other developed countries imo

[TeyshaBlue]

Funny you should mention the military. Those bastards choke the pharma contracts mercilessly.

[rmt]

And brain and orthopedic surgeons are gonna accept US$95K (before taxes) like those in Sweden? Good luck with that. You guys are talking about upending not only the entire healthcare system but the educational system. After taxation, those specialists are making US$61k. Who would want to be a primary care physician much less a specialist (and I'm assuming you still want that brain surgeon to go through 15 years of school)?

How much does a doctor earn in Sweden?
Junior doctors earn gross 25-28000 SEK per month. Experienced resident doctors earn monthly 35-40000 SEK and salary of specialists begins from 55k SEK and rises to 70k SEK per month. After taxation, this last sum remains around 45000 SEK.

http://www.overseasdoctorjobs.com/sv/what-do-doctors-get-paid/

[TeyshaBlue]

Hey, either they do or they don't. Free country. We underpay teachers as well. Somehow they still teach.

[TeyshaBlue]

And yeah. We probably need to completely trash the current med Ed system.

[rmt]

Hey, either they do or they don't. Free country. We underpay teachers as well. Somehow they still teach.

And we wonder about the sad state of our educational system.

Why would anyone become a doctor when they could go to college for 4 years and get paid:

Facebook

Annual base salary: $107,000

Stock/stipend per year: $37,500

Signing bonus: $75,000 to $100,000

Google

Annual base salary: $112,000

Stock/stipend per year: $25,000 to $55,000

Signing bonus: $10,000 to $60,000

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-much-grads-companies-facebook-205254557.html

And what then would a nurse or a physician's assistant be making if a primary care doctor or specialist is making so little? Let's just adjust all the salaries we're used to in the US down - we'll all make minimum wage.

[TeyshaBlue]

So you pick two complete outliers to showcase? Think before you post. You're comparing apples to parachute pants.

[TeyshaBlue]

Incidentally, some people work a job because it's important to them and others. This usually doesn't have much to do with money. When I taught, I sure as hell didn't do it for the fucking money.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

WE should just amend the constitution to make health care and education and health care a right of all citizens and get it over with.

Education is so shitty because of how it is funded. You can get a pretty good education at Reagan HS. If you go to East Central then you are fucked.

It's a similar issue with health care metrics where the poor getting the shaft skews the result.

[D_Admiral]

It's bullshit anytime we are forced to buy-in to any govt funded/subsidized social service/program

enforced by imprisonment..


Education and healthcare suck dick because the government is already so highly involved. Why do so many people think more government intervention will help raise the standard. What a joke.

Healthcare is a commodity, not a right

[rmt]

It isn't lack of money that's to blame for the woes of the educational system - maybe more like the allocation of it - toward pensions, healthcare and expensive textbooks. I could educate an elementary age child (no visual, developmental or mental delay/disability) for less than $100 a year (with my computer, internet access, printer and card to a decent library system). It shouldn't cost over $12k per public school student (2012-13) for the outcomes we're getting.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's bullshit anytime we are forced to buy-in to any govt funded/subsidized social service/program

enforced by imprisonment..


Education and healthcare suck dick because the government is already so highly involved. Why do so many people think more government intervention will help raise the standard. What a joke.

Healthcare is a commodity, not a right

I always find this argument amusing. If the the government is so inefficient then why are ideologues like yourself so afraid to put your money where your mouth is and allow a public option? If the free market is so much more efficient then it should have no issue competing.

[rmt]

I always find this argument amusing. If the the government is so inefficient then why are ideologues like yourself so afraid to put your money where your mouth is and allow a public option? If the free market is so much more efficient then it should have no issue competing.

I know you didn't bring it up but on the other side of the argument, why are we spending over $12k per public school student with not very good results and (from your comment above, "with health care metrics where the poor getting the shaft skews the result") assuming these poor are on Medicaid (a government-run program), why are they getting the shaft? And what about the VA - another government-run healthcare program? - not exactly shining examples these of government-run programs.

[Will Hunting]

Teysha won this thread, imo tbh.

[Will Hunting]

:lmao using google and Facebook as typical examples of what people get paid right out of school.

[rmt]

Incidentally, some people work a job because it's important to them and others. This usually doesn't have much to do with money. When I taught, I sure as hell didn't do it for the fucking money.

I did not mean to undermine the love of teaching some have - it's a different situation though with a 4 year degree and teaching (one doesn't have to teach the major they took in college - a BS/BA and passing the particular subject exam is sufficient). IMO, it would be a very foolish person who knowingly took on hundreds of thousands of dollars debt and over 12 years of schooling to earn $95k.

I still waiting to hear from those who support a single payer system how we get from where we are now (both education-wise and health-care salary-wise) to single payor and it be sustainable. And these certifying agencies aren't helping - before one needed only a BS to be a pharmacist - now you need a Doctor of Pharmacy degree. Do we lower our medical standards (not going to happen), lower the cost of educating these health care professionals, lower their salaries and do we change our legal system so that these lower-salaried, high-debt individuals can't get sued should they make mistakes?

[D_Admiral]

I always find this argument amusing. If the the government is so inefficient then why are ideologues like yourself so afraid to put your money where your mouth is and allow a public option? If the free market is so much more efficient then it should have no issue competing.


What's amusing to me is people that say the government sucks, yet want to expand the power of govt.
You sort of answreed your own question, "if im weary of government inefficieny, " why the hell would i want to increase the flow of money into the public sector of healthcare?

Increasing power to the government means weakening the citizen.

You can have a public option, just dont force me to buy into it.

Innovation comes from the private sector, we have the best healthcare in the world because of the private sector

Capitalism works .

[rmt]

Teysha won this thread, imo tbh.

What is this - a pissing contest? (in which, I would lose everyday and twice on Sunday). It's not a matter of who won this thread - these are real concerns about getting to single payor from the system we have in place - major overhauls to the medical, educational and legal (judgements? - is that the right word for what you get when you win?) systems.

Happy Mother's Day! I am fortunate to have my 3 with me today - not many more of those occasions.

[rmt]

:lmao using google and Facebook as typical examples of what people get paid right out of school.

I'll just say that it's typical in my dd's world. And those smart, hard-working med students would be paying close attending to those salaries should their end salary be cut to $95k (like in Sweden). Don't you think the majority of them will be looking elsewhere for career choice?

[baseline bum]

I'll just say that it's typical in my dd's world. And those smart, hard-working med students would be paying close attending to those salaries should their end salary be cut to $95k (like in Sweden). Don't you think the majority of them will be looking elsewhere for career choice?

Stop bullshitting, everyone knows your daughter is pregnant in a trailer.

[Will Hunting]

I'll just say that it's typical in my dd's world. And those smart, hard-working med students would be paying close attending to those salaries should their end salary be cut to $95k (like in Sweden). Don't you think the majority of them will be looking elsewhere for career choice?
You and I are in full agreement that the educational process for med students is completely fucked up.

[rmt]

Stop bullshitting, everyone knows your daughter is pregnant in a trailer.

Believe what you want.

[Xevious]

I don't know why anybody needs insurance anyway. Just get you some of this shit:

GGuawSq6zDA

[TeyshaBlue]

I know you didn't bring it up but on the other side of the argument, why are we spending over $12k per public school student with not very good results and (from your comment above, "with health care metrics where the poor getting the shaft skews the result") assuming these poor are on Medicaid (a government-run program), why are they getting the shaft? And what about the VA - another government-run healthcare program? - not exactly shining examples these of government-run programs.

You probably ought to know more about the VA system than your FOX masters tell you to think. I administered their contacts with the pharmaceutical companies for about 5 years. 40 or so billion....and the VA was ruthless in their pricing. This is one of the shining examples of what a central government can do. They got the best pricing on pharmaceuticals period...and shit all over the GPO's in the process. I loved enforcing their contacts. If Novartis didn't honor a negotiated price on a drug, the VA would pick a ridiculously expensive product and put it out for $1 until Novartis got their act together. It was gloriously effective. :lol

[RandomGuy]

Is this not a message board to share ideas? I guess you guys who mock the health sharing plans used by over half a million people also mock Amish people who don't use insurance at all. What a concept - if my barn burns down, my fellow Amish help me rebuild my barn - same as I would for them. What exactly is wrong with a group of people pooling together their resources for a specific purpose? Whatever problems they had at the beginning have probably been resolved by safeguards and yes, it's a whole lot cheaper than insurance - no middleman, no profit, and a pool of non-smoking, non-drinking, non-druggies, non-promiscuous members. Or is it that some of you just can't stand the thought that others have ideas opposing theirs - maybe you think that your way is the best/only way? Well, have fun with those thousands of dollars in premiums per month.

"a group of people pooling together their resources for a specific purpose"= definition of insurance.

Most primitive insurance companies before the advent of modern capital systems were precisely that, i.e. a group of farmers banding together. There are still a few types of that company around.

The Amish have collectivized their risk. That meets the definition of insurance. I would guess that their "coverage" doesn't include things like modern surgeries, hip replacements, and so forth.

Ration care stringently enough, and you can make "insurance" as cheap as you want to.

[diego]

IMO, it would be a very foolish person who knowingly took on hundreds of thousands of dollars debt and over 12 years of schooling to earn $95k.

funny you mention that, because swedish doctors dont graduate with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and having a child doesnt quadruple their health insurance cost, unless you can find their disposable incomes gross salary is meaningless

[rmt]

funny you mention that, because swedish doctors dont graduate with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and having a child doesnt quadruple their health insurance cost, unless you can find their disposable incomes gross salary is meaningless

Isn't that exactly the point? That here in the US, our salary scale, our educational costs, our ability to get sued - all factor into health care costs. That saying, "x country can do it for y fraction of the price here in the US," why can't we? Are the doctors, physician's assistants, nurses gonna accept the low pay that European doctors are willing to work for? Do we change our medical (salary-wise), educational (expensive) and legal (litigious) systems to become like Europe's? What do you mean about having a child doesn't quadruple their health insurance cost? The blurb does list after-tax salary (US$65k) - "After taxation, this last sum remains around 45000 SEK."

[RandomGuy]

Isn't that exactly the point? That here in the US, our salary scale, our educational costs, our ability to get sued - all factor into health care costs. That saying, "x country can do it for y fraction of the price here in the US," why can't we? Are the doctors, physician's assistants, nurses gonna accept the low pay that European doctors are willing to work for? Do we change our medical (salary-wise), educational (expensive) and legal (litigious) systems to become like Europe's? What do you mean about having a child doesn't quadruple their health insurance cost? The blurb does list after-tax salary (US$65k) - "After taxation, this last sum remains around 45000 SEK."

Pay for the doctors/nurses college, and they can easily take a pay cut.

Those big, bad socialist countries subsidize the creation of doctors and nurses, and shockingly enough, get more doctors and nurses.

Pay for doctors in this country has to be high to pay back the "free market" student loans. Make medical school cost less with subsidies, and, yes, those doctors and nurses could easily take pay cuts and still have more money in the long run.

[CosmicCowboy]

Pay for the doctors/nurses college, and they can easily take a pay cut.

Those big, bad socialist countries subsidize the creation of doctors and nurses, and shockingly enough, get more doctors and nurses.

Pay for doctors in this country has to be high to pay back the "free market" student loans. Make medical school cost less with subsidies, and, yes, those doctors and nurses could easily take pay cuts and still have more money in the long run.

I would agree with this and even go a step further. Pay for Doctors schooling if they agree to work for 10 or 15 years at government run clinics (similar to the private med clinics sprouting up everywhere) for a living wage but modest compared to docs now. The clinics would handle routine stuff for all on a walk-in basis...colds, cuts, infections, pre-natal care, etc. combination minor emergency and general practitioner.

Then buy the insurance you want to handle other stuff...a catastrophic policy to cover only the expensive stuff you can't predict (heart, cancer, etc.) would be one price. Want to add elective surgery (knee replacements, etc.) it's another price. Don't want insurance but want a health savings account? Fine...All would be massively cheaper than we have now.

They need to limit patents on drugs and get more generics. Drug costs in the US are ridiculous.

Break the stranglehold the AMA has on medical schools. More graduates equals more competition equals lower prices.

[CosmicCowboy]

And yeah, sucks but you can't have cheap health care without rationing.

The drunk or methhead on the corner holding a sign shouldn't get a free liver when he burns the first one out.

[clambake]

And yeah, sucks but you can't have cheap health care without rationing.

The drunk or methhead on the corner holding a sign shouldn't get a free liver when he burns the first one out.

#blackliversmatter

[CosmicCowboy]

#blackliversmatter

:lmao

[rmt]

I would agree with this and even go a step further. Pay for Doctors schooling if they agree to work for 10 or 15 years at government run clinics (similar to the private med clinics sprouting up everywhere) for a living wage but modest compared to docs now. The clinics would handle routine stuff for all on a walk-in basis...colds, cuts, infections, pre-natal care, etc. combination minor emergency and general practitioner.

Then buy the insurance you want to handle other stuff...a catastrophic policy to cover only the expensive stuff you can't predict (heart, cancer, etc.) would be one price. Want to add elective surgery (knee replacements, etc.) it's another price. Don't want insurance but want a health savings account? Fine...All would be massively cheaper than we have now.

They need to limit patents on drugs and get more generics. Drug costs in the US are ridiculous.

Break the stranglehold the AMA has on medical schools. More graduates equals more competition equals lower prices.

Don't think it's the AMA - I think it's Medicare that determines/caps the funding/number of residents.

[CosmicCowboy]

Don't think it's the AMA - I think it's Medicare that determines/caps the funding/number of residents.

How does medicare do that?

[rmt]

How does medicare do that?

https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/gme/71178/gme_gme0012.html

[rmt]

Sorry, that's kinda old but I don't think it's changed.

[rmt]

The article is old, I mean. Not being able to edit sucks.

[CosmicCowboy]

How does medicare do that?

Interesting. I checked it out. Medicare funds residency slots and limits them to 100,000. Hasn't changed since '97. Seems like a short sighted policy.

The AMA does limit med schools and is part of the problem but basically what happens is immigrant doctors fill the slots created by the shortage of US med students.