Looks like teodosic is no longer an option. Wants 25-30 milion in three year.

[apalisoc_9]

Groce.

Do not want.

[Chinook]

You fucking know full well how to spell gross.

[Robz4000]

You fucking know full well how to spell gross.

:lol

[NASpurs]

http://www.netsdaily.com/2017/5/16/15647140/milos-teodosic-looking-for-25-30-million-over-three-says-david-pick?utm_campaign=netsdaily&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Pick writes...
CSKA will soon engage in one the greatest decisions the franchise had in a long time. Milos Teodosic - NBA or Europe? Several NBA GMs and scouts are eye-balling the Serbian wizard floor general. With ex-CSKA assistant Quin Snyder leading Utah into the second round of the playoffs with loads of international flavor, sources tell me the Jazz are bound to shoot Teodosic an offer-sheet. The Brooklyn Nets are also in active pursuit. People close to Teodosic estimate that he'll push for a deal in 3-years $25-30 million range.

[TheDoctor]

You fucking know full well how to spell gross.
:lol Groce = grosser spelling of gross.

[benefactor]

You fucking know full well how to spell gross.
I'm pretty surprised he posted such a long thread title without intentionally fucking one of the letters up. Losing his touch, tbh.

[benefactor]

Nvm....he left an "l" out of million

[apalisoc_9]

http://www.netsdaily.com/2017/5/16/15647140/milos-teodosic-looking-for-25-30-million-over-three-says-david-pick?utm_campaign=netsdaily&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Pick writes...
CSKA will soon engage in one the greatest decisions the franchise had in a long time. Milos Teodosic - NBA or Europe? Several NBA GMs and scouts are eye-balling the Serbian wizard floor general. With ex-CSKA assistant Quin Snyder leading Utah into the second round of the playoffs with loads of international flavor, sources tell me the Jazz are bound to shoot Teodosic an offer-sheet. The Brooklyn Nets are also in active pursuit. People close to Teodosic estimate that he'll push for a deal in 3-years $25-30 million range.


No way he's worse than mack

[Chinook]

btb. the MLE for three years is like $24.4 Million for three years. I would not be again Adding him, reupping Mills and giving Murray more minutes to make up the back-court rotation with Danny while drafting and playing Anderson and Bertans to supplement the front court.

Teodosic, Mills, min guy, second-rounder
Green, Murray, Hanga
Leonard, Simmons, min guy
Aldridge, Bertans, Anderson
Gasol, LLE guy, first-rounder, UDFA or Cady.

[smaka]

Guy is an overrated choker. Pass. I've seen enough of him in Euroleague.

[DAF86]

Try to get Bogdanovic, imho.

[SAGirl]

btb. the MLE for three years is like $24.4 Million for three years. I would not be again Adding him, reupping Mills and giving Murray more minutes to make up the back-court rotation with Danny while drafting and playing Anderson and Bertans to supplement the front court.

Teodosic, Mills, min guy, second-rounder
Green, Murray, Hanga
Leonard, Simmons, min guy
Aldridge, Bertans, Anderson
Gasol, LLE guy, first-rounder, UDFA or Cady.

That's awful.
I don't even want Gasol tbqh with you.
they have nothing in the way of centers with that group when Gasol turns unplayable with another year in those bones.

[MaNu4Tres]

That's awful.
I don't even want Gasol tbqh with you.
they have nothing in the way of centers with that group when Gasol turns unplayable with another year in those bones.

Take it with a grain of salt. That's not Chinooks strength tbh... Apparently he still thinks Murrays future is at SG ( go figure).

His strength is in the CBA.

[apalisoc_9]

btb. the MLE for three years is like $24.4 Million for three years. I would not be again Adding him, reupping Mills and giving Murray more minutes to make up the back-court rotation with Danny while drafting and playing Anderson and Bertans to supplement the front court.

Teodosic, Mills, min guy, second-rounder
Green, Murray, Hanga
Leonard, Simmons, min guy
Aldridge, Bertans, Anderson
Gasol, LLE guy, first-rounder, UDFA or Cady.

Wow..You're really bad at talent evaluation. Sorry.

Not only do you have an awful track record of talent evaluation, you also never seem to learn.

[MaNu4Tres]

It will go something close to this imo:

Hill (if he takes substantial paycut) or Mack or Mills (if he takes substancial paycut)/ Murray/ Vet min/ Forbes
Green - Simmons - Hanga
Kawhi - Anderson - Hanga
LA - Lee - Bertans
Pau - Draft pick ( I.E Jordan Bell ) - vet min guy


Notes: Dedmon is as good as gone IMO, Pau will opt in (unfortunately), Spurs won't pay both Simmons and Mills -- it will be one or the other. With Manu retiring and Murray on the up and up, I think Simmons gets re-signed, not Mills). Hanga will be brought over and Spurs will draft a big w/ their 1st since that's where the value is where they are picking.

[TD 21]

That's awful.
I don't even want Gasol tbqh with you.
they have nothing in the way of centers with that group when Gasol turns unplayable with another year in those bones.

Yeah. In that scenario, they'd have to hope they could get Reed for the bi-annual exception or else resort to probably Lee for it and a center at the veteran's minimum, like Splitter.

Plus, locking up another rotation guard long term, would either leave no room for Parker when he returns (as much as many might want this, they're not doing that to him and he's likely to play at least one season beyond next) or no room for Murray.

The better play, would be attempting to re-sign Dedmon for the mid-level exception, then using the bi-annual exception on Williams, if he doesn't retire. Hopefully he would the following season though.

[apalisoc_9]

It will go something close to this imo:

Hill (if he takes substantial paycut) or Mack or Mills (if he takes substancial paycut)/ Murray/ Vet min/ Forbes
Green - Simmons - Hanga
Kawhi - Anderson - Hanga
LA - Lee - Bertans
Pau - Draft pick ( I.E Jordan Bell ) - vet min guy


Notes: Dedmon is as good as gone IMO, Pau will opt in (unfortunately), Spurs won't pay both Simmons and Mills -- it will be one or the other. With Manu retiring and Murray on the up and up, I think Simmons gets re-signed, not Mills). Hanga will be brought over and Spurs will draft a big w/ their 1st since that's where the value is where they are picking.

There's very little chance a draft pick center would even sniff playing time close to 5mpg next year. He's playing in Austin..Whoever they pick.

Bertans is going to get increased minutes.

Big Rotation next year probably goes

LA-Pau-Bertans-Lee-Vet

Can't say for certain they'd even draft a big specially if there's mutual understanding that the Spurs won't be able to afford Simmons.

[DMC]

You fucking know full well how to spell gross.

Classic try to hard ergo fail fallacy.

[SAGirl]

It will go something close to this imo:

Hill (if he takes substantial paycut) or Mack or Mills (if he takes substancial paycut)/ Murray/ Vet min/ Forbes
Green - Simmons - Hanga
Kawhi - Anderson - Hanga
LA - Lee - Bertans
Pau - Draft pick ( I.E Jordan Bell ) - vet min guy


Notes: Dedmon is as good as gone IMO, Pau will opt in (unfortunately), Spurs won't pay both Simmons and Mills -- it will be one or the other. With Manu retiring and Murray on the up and up, I think Simmons gets re-signed, not Mills). Hanga will be brought over and Spurs will draft a big w/ their 1st since that's where the value is where they are picking.
That's better as you said some guys are unpredictable marketwise but overall I do agree with you.
For me, I want Gasol to show something in this series, no matter the outcome.
I still can't believe he's getting 15-16 mill for 15-16 minutes of awful play in the playoffs. I know it's up to him to pick up his option but wow... I'd like the Spurs to explore a trade if he's going to be no better than Diaw/Dworst of last season... none of which was getting 15 mill....

[Chinook]

Wow..You're really bad at talent evaluation. Sorry.

Not only do you have an awful track record of talent evaluation, you also never seem to learn.

We can't all make our (board) living being caricatures of Harlem.

[spursistan]

That's better as you said some guys are unpredictable marketwise but overall I do agree with you.
For me, I want Gasol to show something in this series, no matter the outcome.
I still can't believe he's getting 15-16 mill for 15-16 minutes of awful play in the playoffs. I know it's up to him to pick up his option but wow... I'd like the Spurs to explore a trade if he's going to be no better than Diaw/Dworst of last season... none of which was getting 15 mill....

:tu

Yep..Salary-dumping Pau is my first off-season priority if I were PATFO..

[DAF86]

What's the deal with that Hanga guy? I haven't been keeping yo much with Euroball as much as in the past but he doesn't seem to be much of a shooter. And we need shooters, tbh.

[apalisoc_9]

We can't all make our (board) living being caricatures of Harlem.

You're too new of a poster, just like everyone else I suppose.

I was Harlem's Enemy in the Spurs Dark days 08-13

I made a thread about him a few years ago asking for him to get banned. He got banned for months thanks to my request of course.

[MaNu4Tres]

There's very little chance a draft pick center would even sniff playing time close to 5mpg next year. He's playing in Austin..Whoever they pick.

Bertans is going to get increased minutes.

Big Rotation next year probably goes

LA-Pau-Bertans-Lee-Vet

Can't say for certain they'd even draft a big specially if there's mutual understanding that the Spurs won't be able to afford Simmons.

I agree w/ Bertans getting a bigger role.

I do think Lee will be back and him and Bertans will back up Gasol/LA initially. However, I do think there's talent in the front court late in 1st that can play right away and there's a chance that can happen on the Spurs because of how thin the front-court will be if they just re-sign Lee -- since Dedmon will likely go elsewhere because of his late season demotion ( his agent has to hate the current situation - see Nazr).

[daledondale]

I have seen him playing for Serbia, he has talent but not heart.

[Chinook]

That's awful.
I don't even want Gasol tbqh with you.
they have nothing in the way of centers with that group when Gasol turns unplayable with another year in those bones.

Gasol's on the team. I'm not paying to move him if I'm the Spurs. And I don't even think I am inclined to use cap space on a PG. They simply need to stay over the cap from here on out. I can understand not wanting Teodosic (even though this was always going to be his contract range), but the team needs to realistically address its guard issues.

[Chinook]

You're too new of a poster, just like everyone else I suppose.

I was Harlem's Enemy in the Spurs Dark days 08-13

I made a thread about him a few years ago asking for him to get banned. He got banned for months thanks to my request of course.

I remember Harlem back when he was a Green hater. You have seniority on me for sure, but that only makes it sadder that you've become his schizophrenic twin.

[DAF86]

Dedmon=Mills >>>> Simmons on my "players to keep" list, tbh.

[coachmac87]

We can't all make our (board) living being caricatures of Harlem.


Lmao

[apalisoc_9]

What's the deal with that Hanga guy? I haven't been keeping yo much with Euroball as much as in the past but he doesn't seem to be much of a shooter. And we need shooters, tbh.

Hard to to tell. He seems like he has a decent understanding of positional defending and he won DPOY for his league this year..But who knows how good he is defensively. So many of his highlights are all blocks and steals...None of which tell the whole story. Maybe Europe is a bit behind in terms of awarding individual accolades.

He's not as good of a shooter as Green..Probably not even Manu's level.

Straight line driver..and hard to tell if his athleticism is NBA level.

I'm really not sold on him having a role at all, no one should...Summer league should paint a clearer picture.

[MaNu4Tres]

:tu

Yep..Salary-dumping Pau is my first off-season priority if I were PATFO..

I would too, but unfortunately we aren't PATFO. Plus, who's to say SA can utilize the 15-16 million for one year better than 1 yr of Gasol? Just because they could create the space, doesn't mean they could actually use it better than Gasol. Nothing is guaranteed in Free Agency. I'm just glad he just has 1 yr left.

[Chinook]

Dedmon=Mills >>>> Simmons on my "players to keep" list, tbh.

Dedmon's all about opportunity cost for me. It costs almost nothing to keep Simmons. It costs a shit ton to keep Dedmon.

[TD 21]

I agree w/ Bertans getting a bigger role.

I do think Lee will be back and him and Bertans will back up Gasol/LA initially. However, I do think there's talent in the front court late in 1st that can play right away and there's a chance that can happen on the Spurs because of how thin the front-court will be if they just re-sign Lee -- since Dedmon will likely go elsewhere because of his late season demotion ( his agent has to hate the current situation - see Nazr).

I think people are reading too much into Dedmon's demotion. With the need to up Aldridge's minutes and play small some against the Rockets/Warriors, either Lee or Dedmon was going to get squeezed and in typical Pop fashion, he went with the veteran over the playoff neophyte (to be fair, they needed as much offense as possible).

I think they want Dedmon to be the starting center going forward. Next season, if re-signed, he'll be in his second season as a Spur, be making the MLE and Lee will be gone, all of which will guarantee a rotation spot throughout.

[apalisoc_9]

I would too, but unfortunately we aren't PATFO. Plus, who's to say SA can utilize the 15-16 million for one year better than 1 yr of Gasol? Just because they could create the space, doesn't mean they could actually use it better than Gasol. Nothing is guaranteed in Free Agency. I'm just glad he just has 1 yr left.

I wonder if its at all possible to trade his expiring contract. He's going to opt in, but I am also fairly convinced that he's not happy with his role at all specially since there is a possibility they keep Dedmon for the MLE

Don't really know CBA enough to know if that's even legal.

[DAF86]

Hard to to tell. He seems like he has a decent understanding of positional defending and he won DPOY for his league this year..But who knows how good he is defensively. So many of his highlights are all blocks and steals...None of which tell the whole story. Maybe Europe is a bit behind in terms of awarding individual accolades.

He's not as good of a shooter as Green..Probably not even Manu's level.

Straight line driver..and hard to tell if his athleticism is NBA level.

I'm really not sold on him having a role at all, no one should...Summer league should paint a clearer picture.

"probably not Manu's level"? He shot like 30% from 3 on thr Euroleague with a FIBA three pt line. That would make him the worst 3 pt shooter on the Spurs. If that's his norm, I do not want, tbh.

[DAF86]

Dedmon's all about opportunity cost for me. It costs almost nothing to keep Simmons. It costs a shit ton to keep Dedmon.

Why do you think it will cost nothing to keep Simmons?

[MaNu4Tres]

I think people are reading too much into Dedmon's demotion. This is typical Pop, trusting the veteran Lee over the playoff neophyte. I think they want Dedmon to be the starting center going forward. Next season, if re-signed, he'll be in his second season as a Spur, be making the MLE and Lee will be gone, all of which will guarantee a rotation spot throughout.

I know Spurs value him. They like him. I know his minutes have decreased because of Pop going with the offensive option who is a proven vet over him as the 3rd big off the bench. I know Pop has chosen to go small a lot more than usual ( which is the right move). Going small gives LA minutes a lot of minutes at the 5, creating a circumstance where Dedmon has no real shot at getting minutes. I mean Pau started game 1 and only got 16 minutes.

I'm just looking at it through the lenses of Dedmon and his agent. You think they like this situation going into one of his most important summers of his life? You think they'd choose SA over another team offering the same deal? After this? Its exactly what happened with Nazr in 06', Spurs loved him but sat him going into the most important summer for him. Spurs offered the same as Detroit did, but Nazr chose Detroit because of his demotion at the end of the season.

Now do I know Dedmon is thinking this? Of course not. I'm just using common sense and some empathy towards this situation to come up with these thoughts.

[apalisoc_9]

"probably not Manu's level"? He shot like 30% from 3 on thr Euroleague with a FIBA three pt line. That would make him the worst 3 pt shooter on the Spurs. If that's his norm, I do not want, tbh.

I was speaking in terms of shooting potential. Manu's mechanics is suspect if he was rookie a today.

I'm saying his shooting mechanics makes it a bit more difficult to believe he can improve it to around 37% at a decent volume.

[Chinook]

Why do you think it will cost nothing to keep Simmons?

His cap hold is so small that pretty much any scenario can include keeping him. Mills is medium because the team has his Bird rights. Dedmon will likely take cap space, which means letting a lot of players go. Huge opportunity cost there.

[TD 21]

I know Spurs value him. They like him. I know his minutes have decreased because of Pop going with the offensive option who is a proven vet over him as the 3rd big off the bench. I know Pop has chosen to go small a lot more than usual ( which is the right move). Going small gives LA minutes a lot of minutes at the 5, creating a circumstance where Dedmon has no real shot at getting minutes. I mean Pau started game 1 and only got 16 minutes.

I'm just looking at it through the lenses of Dedmon and his agent. You think they like this situation going into one of his most important summers of his life? You think they'd choose SA over another team offering the same deal? After this? Its exactly what happened with Nazr in 06', Spurs loved him but sat him going into the most important summer for him. Spurs offered the same as Detroit did, but Nazr chose Detroit because of his demotion at the end of the season.

Now do I know Dedmon is thinking this? Of course not. I'm just using common sense and some empathy towards this situation to come up with these thoughts.

Yeah, I know and it's logical to do so. But I think if the reasoning is explained to him and the money is equal or relatively so, he re-signs. By spurning the Warriors, he made it clear he wanted to be a Spur and he seems to have really enjoyed his time as one. Plus, Gasol will be 37 and potentially gone in a season and depending on what happens with the draft, the only other center in the pipeline is Milutinov (though Aldridge will play more as he ages). Throw in that it's an elite team and they check every box.

[spurraider21]

You're too new of a poster, just like everyone else I suppose.

I was Harlem's Enemy in the Spurs Dark days 08-13

I made a thread about him a few years ago asking for him to get banned. He got banned for months thanks to my request of course.:lol and yet you only got on kawhi's wagon after the 2013 finals

[spurraider21]

His cap hold is so small that pretty much any scenario can include keeping him. Mills is medium because the team has his Bird rights. Dedmon will likely take cap space, which means letting a lot of players go. Huge opportunity cost there.but if he gets signed to an offer sheet elsewhere, it would force us to accelerate other moves...

[ex-moderator]

You're too new of a poster, just like everyone else I suppose.

I was Harlem's Enemy in the Spurs Dark days 08-13

I made a thread about him a few years ago asking for him to get banned. He got banned for months thanks to my request of course.no

[Chinook]

Yeah, I know and it's logical to do so. But I think if the reasoning is explained to him and the money is equal or relatively so, he re-signs. By spurning the Warriors, he made it clear he wanted to be a Spur and he seems to have really enjoyed his time as one. Plus, Gasol will be 37 and potentially gone in a season and depending on what happens with the draft, the only other center in the pipeline is Milutinov (though Aldridge will play more as he ages). Throw in that it's an elite team and they check every box.

Someone said that there was a tweet or article stating Dedmon was unhappy with the Spurs' culture earlier in the season. So I'm not sure. I think he'd really need a good plan to stay on. Dude's also going to be 28 and may only have this one contract to set himself up. I think the full MLE is more than fair (would like the third year to be partially guaranteed and the fourth completely non-guaranteed), but I could see a team offering $50M/3 easily trying to get their Moreyball center.

[Chinook]

but if he gets signed to an offer sheet elsewhere, it would force us to accelerate other moves...

Not really. The moratorium should give them all the time they need unless Jon just wants to be an asshole and sign at midnight just to make the Spurs weaker.

[spurraider21]

Not really. The moratorium should give them all the time they need unless Jon just wants to be an asshole and sign at midnight just to make the Spurs weaker.its also in his interest to sign earlier before market dries up/funds run out... especially if he plays himself into a good sized deal

[GSH]

That's awful.
I don't even want Gasol tbqh with you.
they have nothing in the way of centers with that group when Gasol turns unplayable with another year in those bones.


Gasol has been pretty damn good off the bench. That's too much to pay for a bench big, but the money is already committed. He's got at least another year at this level, playing against other bench bigs. I can't imagine the Spurs just dumping him, only to get another player of (hopefully) the same level. And if he's really as bad as you're saying, why would any team give full contract value for him?

I think he's pretty close to inevitable next year. The big question is whether the Spurs can score a C who is good enough to be a legit starter.

[GSH]

Not really. The moratorium should give them all the time they need unless Jon just wants to be an asshole and sign at midnight just to make the Spurs weaker.


Holding out is not the way to go, if you're a second-tier player who really needs to get paid to secure his future. If he was one of the most sought-after FA's of the season, sure. But you're right, he needs to jump on a good package early, and not chance having to settle for a 1-year deal somewhere.

[apalisoc_9]

no

troll account :lol

Can't you just hand this account to TDMVPDPOY. this board needs more unique personalities

[Chinook]

its also in his interest to sign earlier before market dries up/funds run out... especially if he plays himself into a good sized deal

Not really. Like the Spurs should know before the moratorium ends who they're getting and how they can fit them into the cap. Should only take a few minutes to fax in those transactions. Simmons (knowing he's going to be a Spur) would have to be camping out in front of his deal in order to obstruct that.

Yes, it's possible for teams to sign a guy to an offer sheet during the moratorium under the new CBA (and I hope I'm wrong about that, because it's a stupid rule change). In that case, the clock doesn't start until the moratorium is lifted, but there isn't a delay to get the transactions in, I'm pretty sure. I do think a Tyler Johnson--like deal sees Simmons in a different uniform. But if it's something that can be contained in the MLE, then he's definitely not signing anything, as the Spurs can offer him such a deal without the need to match.

I don't think the team will have to pick their way through too much strife to hold onto him, especially if they remain over the cap like I hope they do.

[ex-moderator]

troll account :lol

Can't you just hand this account to TDMVPDPOY. this board needs more unique personalitiesno

[turkish spurs fan]

sign hanga instead of danny (trade him).
never sign teodosic. he is loser.

[Chinook]

Holding out is not the way to go, if you're a second-tier player who really needs to get paid to secure his future. If he was one of the most sought-after FA's of the season, sure. But you're right, he needs to jump on a good package early, and not chance having to settle for a 1-year deal somewhere.

As I just said to SR21, I mean that Simmons would literally have to sign at midnight to screw the Spurs. If he signs at 12:30a.m., the team would likely be fine. I don't think it's normal at all for midnight signings for mid- to lower-tier guys. You expect them to fly in, get their physical and stuff first.

[kaji157]

You gotta go for Ginobili in a PG body.
Best winning mentality player on the market.
He could be had for 3-4 million year.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK-BbBxCtB4

[apalisoc_9]

You gotta go for Ginobili in a PG body.
Best winning mentality player on the market.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK-BbBxCtB4

nice..

let's populate our Guard Rotation with Players under 6'0

:lol

[Chinook]

Let's go for Campazzo so we can see another taqueria thread.

[SAGirl]

Gasol's on the team. I'm not paying to move him if I'm the Spurs. And I don't even think I am inclined to use cap space on a PG. They simply need to stay over the cap from here on out. I can understand not wanting Teodosic (even though this was always going to be his contract range), but the team needs to realistically address its guard issues.
I just don't see that your take makes the team better.
Maybe that is bc I don't know Teodosic much other than hype and I am not hyped about him at that price/3 years.
I have been disappointed on Gasol.
I don't see you acknowledge the possibility Millls and Simmons are not both affordable. Simmons has proven more valuable than Gasol in some series/games so to not acknowledge conflicts in retaining all these dudes $ doesn't paint a realistic picture to me.

[SAGirl]

I think people are reading too much into Dedmon's demotion. With the need to up Aldridge's minutes and play small some against the Rockets/Warriors, either Lee or Dedmon was going to get squeezed and in typical Pop fashion, he went with the veteran over the playoff neophyte (to be fair, they needed as much offense as possible).

I think they want Dedmon to be the starting center going forward. Next season, if re-signed, he'll be in his second season as a Spur, be making the MLE and Lee will be gone, all of which will guarantee a rotation spot throughout.
I'd like for this to be true.
Though this is probably wishful thinking... but I was hoping Dedmon bet on his improvement after an offseason and having spent time in the system.
Others here have said he's likely gone.
It's hard to tell. If he wanted to come back, I'd like him back for sure.

[GSH]

Yep. I don't think Simmons is going to be a high priority for many teams. There are a lot of big FA's this year, and quite a few of them are legitimately in play. I just can't see him getting a really fat offer sheet during the moratorium, or as a first move after it's lifted. I'm sure the Spurs would like to have him back at a reasonable price, and I expect they will offer him a reasonable price (but not fat) up front. The real question is whether him and/or his agent think it's a good idea to hold out and wait for something better. I think it would be really dumb for Simmons, given his place in the league pecking order. Maybe he could score a better deal by waiting. But he could wind up screwing himself really easily. He needs a three year deal now that sets him for the future. A 1-year deal could be a disaster if he has a bad year.

[kaji157]

nice..

let's populate our Guard Rotation with Players under 6'0

:lol

What population? Mills is as good as gone, Parker won´t be here, you have Murray and nothing else.

[kaji157]

Let's go for Campazzo so we can see another taqueria thread.

That´s the spirit.

[SAGirl]

its also in his interest to sign earlier before market dries up/funds run out... especially if he plays himself into a good sized deal
heh
Even Cory Joseph got a quick deal that summer that Aldridge was signed.

[TD 21]

Someone said that there was a tweet or article stating Dedmon was unhappy with the Spurs' culture earlier in the season. So I'm not sure. I think he'd really need a good plan to stay on. Dude's also going to be 28 and may only have this one contract to set himself up. I think the full MLE is more than fair (would like the third year to be partially guaranteed and the fourth completely non-guaranteed), but I could see a team offering $50M/3 easily trying to get their Moreyball center.

The only thing I could think of, would be that they might disapprove of his emotional outbursts and may have even went so far as to attempt to quell them. Despite that, he strikes me as more of a Spur than Simmons.

Even if true, they still check all boxes generally most important to players, so unless someone offers appreciably more than the MLE, I've got to think he'd be inclined to stay.

If not, then turn to Reed, who's of the same ilk and expected to come cheaper.



I'd like for this to be true.
Though this is probably wishful thinking... but I was hoping Dedmon bet on his improvement after an offseason and having spent time in the system.
Others here have said he's likely gone.
It's hard to tell. If he wanted to come back, I'd like him back for sure.

It's probably 50/50, but people pull this chicken little act with virtually every prospective Spurs free agent of any consequence.

[SAGirl]

Gasol has been pretty damn good off the bench. That's too much to pay for a bench big, but the money is already committed. He's got at least another year at this level, playing against other bench bigs. I can't imagine the Spurs just dumping him, only to get another player of (hopefully) the same level. And if he's really as bad as you're saying, why would any team give full contract value for him?

I think he's pretty close to inevitable next year. The big question is whether the Spurs can score a C who is good enough to be a legit starter.
He was paid that much to be a starter, not to be a 6th man so he's definitely overpaid. And now the Spurs have to pay others in addition to him so it gets crowded and difficult $-wise.

In the playoffs, when the Spurs have to play smaller lineups more he's not even giving full value. I wasn't in agreement with the singing initially bc I saw precisely the outcome we are having. Spurs cannot play all their "alleged" best players together at the same time. Also, in the Grizz series Pau was getting benched for Lee. In the Rockets series Pau had maybe 2 or 3 good games, the rest of the games JSimms was a lot more impactful and ate minutes. In the GSW game (the only one we have to go by) Pau was the worst player on the court the last game and for the season, he didn't play well against GSW in general. I have issues with that for sure. If he's going to be a good regular season player exclusively he's not worth that much to me.

Things being what they are though, Spurs may just have to live with it, but he has not lived up to his contract and his sizable contract may prevent other moves or potential improvements to the roster (or even reupping guys the team currently has).

[kaji157]

He was paid that much to be a starter, not to be a 6th man so he's definitely overpaid. And now the Spurs have to pay others in addition to him so it gets crowded and difficult $-wise.

In the playoffs, when the Spurs have to play smaller lineups more he's not even giving full value. I wasn't in agreement with the singing initially bc I saw precisely the outcome we are having. Spurs cannot play all their "alleged" best players together at the same time. Also, in the Grizz series Pau was getting benched for Lee. In the Rockets series Pau had maybe 2 or 3 good games, the rest of the games JSimms was a lot more impactful and ate minutes. In the GSW game (the only one we have to go by) Pau was the worst player on the court the last game and for the season, he didn't play well against GSW in general. I have issues with that for sure. If he's going to be a good regular season player exclusively he's not worth that much to me.

Things being what they are though, Spurs may just have to live with it, but he has not lived up to his contract and his sizable contract may prevent other moves or potential improvements to the roster (or even reupping guys the team currently has).

I think that Gasol isn´t such a bad contract, while he sucked in part, he was effective in a role for half the season, and his contract while overpaid, is not attrocious, he could be a very good trade bait in case he opts in. And is a contract that can get you some interesting players, a 16 million expiring contract of a serviceable player is usually a very, VERY, tradeable asset.

[SAGirl]

The only thing I could think of, would be that they might disapprove of his emotional outbursts and may have even went so far as to attempt to quell them. Despite that, he strikes me as more of a Spur than Simmons.

Even if true, they still check all boxes generally most important to players, so unless someone offers appreciably more than the MLE, I've got to think he'd be inclined to stay.

If not, then turn to Reed, who's of the same ilk and expected to come cheaper.




It's probably 50/50, but people pull this chicken little act with virtually every prospective Spurs free agent of any consequence.

I seem to remember Dedmon's comment was not about the Spurs organization or the players, but rather about the lifestyle in San Antonio not being to his prefernce.. maybe he needed to adjust.

[Raven]

he's no good.

[cjw]

Take it with a grain of salt. That's not Chinooks strength tbh... Apparently he still thinks Murrays future is at SG ( go figure).

His strength is in the CBA.

Mills isn't a PG. Murray isn't a SG. But Mills is smaller than Murray so may play okay together on crossmatches.

Gasol isn't going anywhere, and if he opts out the Spurs may be worse off. They'll be at the cap if not slightly over when taking into account Mills' cap hold (and Simmons' for that matter which is small). Even if Dedmon and Lee fall off the books by signing elsewhere (both have cheap holds) it'd be hard to create lots of cap space. Very likely they operate over the cap and only have the MLE. As I mentioned elsewhere, Spurs could still flip the Gasol salary to bring someone else back in.

Chinook, wouldn't the MLE need to be used on Simmons or does Early Bird obviate the need for this?

Only theoretical way would be if Gasol does opt out wanting a longer deal - though will be hard to find for that money. In that case, Spurs could open near max cap space by stretching/moving Parker (only happening if he's not playing next year).

[DAF86]

I was speaking in terms of shooting potential. Manu's mechanics is suspect if he was rookie a today.

I'm saying his shooting mechanics makes it a bit more difficult to believe he can improve it to around 37% at a decent volume.

Manu was already a good three pt shooter when he got to the Spurs, tbh.

[DAF86]

His cap hold is so small that pretty much any scenario can include keeping him. Mills is medium because the team has his Bird rights. Dedmon will likely take cap space, which means letting a lot of players go. Huge opportunity cost there.

No idea of what you just said, tbh. :lol

I'm just gonna say that I wouldn't commit to Simmons long term, dude has a pretty low ceiling, imho. His lack of shooting will get old very fast, tbh.

[objective]

I'd rather have Teodosic at 8 than Mills at 10

Start Murray, Teodosic as backup and third guard.

For those asking about Hanga, he'll be good as a wing that should be able to switch on anything, with length.

That's what they need in the new NBA

[MaNu4Tres]

I'd rather have Teodosic at 8 than Mills at 10

Start Murray, Teodosic as backup and third guard.

For those asking about Hanga, he'll be good as a wing that should be able to switch on anything, with length.

That's what they need in the new NBA

What if Hill wants to come back to SA so bad that he's willing to sign for the MLE?

[GSH]

He was paid that much to be a starter, not to be a 6th man so he's definitely overpaid. And now the Spurs have to pay others in addition to him so it gets crowded and difficult $-wise.


What you said was that you don't even want him on the team. He's a damn good backup C. The problem isn't whether to have him on the team, it's that he's getting paid too much for a backup big man. But... like I already said... the money is already spent. Try and ditch him, and you wind up in even worse shape.

And, yeah, it's going to be difficult $-wise. You guys are going to start to get a taste of exactly where I said they would be at this time, back in pre-season when I said they needed to take one year to re-build. Now they're in cap hell, with seriously aging assets and a big contract on a backup center.

[TheGreatYacht]

No more soft Euros or white Americans. We need players from the hood like Kawhi and Simmons, players that are tough and athletic. Not inferior races.

[SAGirl]

What you said was that you don't even want him on the team. He's a damn good backup C. The problem isn't whether to have him on the team, it's that he's getting paid too much for a backup big man. But... like I already said... the money is already spent. Try and ditch him, and you wind up in even worse shape.

And, yeah, it's going to be difficult $-wise. You guys are going to start to get a taste of exactly where I said they would be at this time, back in pre-season when I said they needed to take one year to re-build. Now they're in cap hell, with seriously aging assets and a big contract on a backup center.
A back up big is Davis and Dedmon. He's paid like a starter and a near star.
Anyways, as you said the money is spent, but it wasn't well spent.
... they may need to face reality in rebuilding bc I think Manu retires, Tony is doubtful and the rest of the guys they have are roleplayers and 4 of them need to get paid. (lee, Dedmon, Mills and JSimms.) To even bring this same crew back.. they can't afford them.
I will be here through thick and thin supporting the team. But I do dislike them making moves for guys well past their expiration date when Kawhi's supporting cast already included a lot of guys past their due date. ah well. I don't know what they can do at this point.

[objective]

What if Hill wants to come back to SA so bad that he's willing to sign for the MLE?

Not happening. Guy turned down 87 million to get 25 from the Spurs? No way.

Hill not being able to stay on the court in the second round during a contract year ... No reason to think he'd be healthy next season at what, 32?

As long as they don't bring back Mills, I think I'd be happy.

For such a sharpshooter his numbers in the second round and beyond this year and last is 24% from three if my quick math is right, and in the WCF he's at 10%.

[GSH]

A back up big is Davis and Dedmon. He's paid like a starter and a near star.
Anyways, as you said the money is spent, but it wasn't well spent.
... they may need to face reality in rebuilding bc I think Manu retires, Tony is doubtful and the rest of the guys they have are roleplayers and 4 of them need to get paid. (lee, Dedmon, Mills and JSimms.) To even bring this same crew back.. they can't afford them.
I will be here through thick and thin supporting the team. But I do dislike them making moves for guys well past their expiration date when Kawhi's supporting cast already included a lot of guys past their due date. ah well. I don't know what they can do at this point.


Do you understand what a sunk cost is? The money is spent. It doesn't matter what they intended him to do when they signed him. The money.is.spent. So if the money is spent no matter what, and nobody is going to take the contract off your hands, without you giving up something of value to sweeten the deal? You just figure you have the luxury of a top-notch backup C, and move on. That's what a sunk cost is all about.

If you ditch Pau, you still have to go out and get another C. Do you not see that? Even if you think Dedmon is the starter next year, you still need a backup. And, no, Bertans isn't an NBA Center - not even a backup. That's worse than forcing David West or David Lee to be a center. I don't care what you, or anybody else here says, Bertans is not a center. Period.

Ditch Pau, and you automatically have to go try and find a bargain-priced big man. It just keeps getting worse. There's nothing you can do about Pau's salary that doesn't weaken the team more. I can't see him opting out of that big paycheck. Do you remember what the Spurs had to do to get rid of Jackie Butler's contract? How did that work out? Say it with me... sunk cost.

There's a chance the Spurs will gain some cap flex with Parker's contract, if he's not on the team next year. Otherwise, they're stuck with that big contract as well. Because now there's really nobody who is going to pick it up, without the Spurs mortgaging the future to get it done.

This. This right here is what I was talking about in the preseason.

[SAGirl]

Do you understand what a sunk cost is? The money is spent. It doesn't matter what they intended him to do when they signed him. The money.is.spent. So if the money is spent no matter what, and nobody is going to take the contract off your hands, without you giving up something of value to sweeten the deal? You just figure you have the luxury of a top-notch backup C, and move on. That's what a sunk cost is all about.

If you ditch Pau, you still have to go out and get another C. Do you not see that? Even if you think Dedmon is the starter next year, you still need a backup. And, no, Bertans isn't an NBA Center - not even a backup. That's worse than forcing David West or David Lee to be a center. I don't care what you, or anybody else here says, Bertans is not a center. Period.

Ditch Pau, and you automatically have to go try and find a bargain-priced big man. It just keeps getting worse. There's nothing you can do about Pau's salary that doesn't weaken the team more. I can't see him opting out of that big paycheck. Do you remember what the Spurs had to do to get rid of Jackie Butler's contract? How did that work out? Say it with me... sunk cost.

There's a chance the Spurs will gain some cap flex with Parker's contract, if he's not on the team next year. Otherwise, they're stuck with that big contract as well. Because now there's really nobody who is going to pick it up, without the Spurs mortgaging the future to get it done.

This. This right here is what I was talking about in the preseason.
I know what sunk cost means. I do but it was spent for this past season. I am not sure nobody would take him off our hands. He had suitors in FA this past offseason and there are teams that could take him. We won't know though bc Spurs are tight-lipped about trades and such.

I don't know Jackie Butler by the way. But Pau is not done as if he was unplayable or injured at this point like Tony is. He has value and Lamarcus really should play center about half the time in the playoffs anyways. Him and Lamarcus being unplayable together is our big problem but other teams maybe won't have that problem.

[Texas_Ranger]

just choked in the game for the finals of the Euroleague.

[jyra]

Outplayed by Spanoulis in crunch time.

[MaNu4Tres]

Remember when some people on Spurstalk were complaining about the Pau signing because he couldn't stay on the floor vs. the best teams?

Remember how they were saying it would be a waste of the Spurs resources to utilize the 32 million over 2 years on Gasol?

I can't wait til the Spurs just do away with two bigs.

Go with 1 Center, 3 wings (preferably with size/length), 1 PG. Preferably all NOT being liabilities on the defensive end.

[Chinook]

Going with three starting wings would be awful. There are a number of PFs who can play the four in today's league. Would make much more sense to find one of those guys rather than worrying about going small. Cleveland and GS both have power-forwards start for them.

[Chinook]

Outplayed by Spanoulis in crunch time.

To be fair, who isn't?

[MaNu4Tres]

Going with three starting wings would be awful. There are a number of PFs who can play the four in today's league. Would make much more sense to find one of those guys rather than worrying about going small. Cleveland and GS both have power-forwards start for them.

Nah it wouldn't at all.

You just have a hard on for labeled positions. You did when you claimed Lee was brought in to be the back up CENTER over Dedmon. Which was wrong too.

As long they have the size to defend and rebound, they'd spread the floor offensively, set picks in PnRs like Love/Dray. Teams no longer go to Power Forwards in the post with volume so trying to get a great post defender at PF is a waste. You need all your guys to defend out on the perimeter. Get wings with size that can defend and play 3-4 positions. That's where its at from this day on forward.

Also, the Cavs and Warriors play with LeBron or Durant at the 4 more when it matters more so than Love or Draymond. Hell Cavs went in long stretches with LeBron at the 5 game 1 of the ECF.

[Rappin' V-Span]

To be fair, who isn't?

Chinook's is one of best posters on Internet! Unlike stupid Americans who only say stupids stuffs like "v-span is not nba levels".


NBA is like Goat sh*t, extra soft
When V-Span is on the court no games is lost
Teodosic over V-Span? You out of your mind?
V-Span clock is never broken durin' crunch time

[Chinook]

Nah it wouldn't at all.

It really would, especially if Kawhi is the four.


You just have a hard on for labeled positions.

There's something wrong with your memory. You're the one who claimed Murray HAD to be the PG, even though I kept saying he could play wherever and still have the ball in his hands.


You did when you claimed Lee was brought in to be the back up CENTER over Dedmon. Which was wrong too.

Actually, I didn't. I thought he was going to be the third-string center and fifth big. I got caught between Dedmon being the starter or the backup, but my big thing in the off-season was believing Kyle was going to be a full-time backup four. Didn't happen, obviously.

However, what has happened was Lee being the backup center over Dedmon. So had I said that, I would have been correct. But I didn't.


As long they have the size to defend and rebound, they'd spread the floor offensively, set picks in PnRs like Love/Dray. Teams no longer go to Power Forwards in the post with volume so trying to get a great post defender at PF is a waste. You need all your guys to defend out on the perimeter. Get wings with size that can defend and play 3-4 positions. That's where its at from this day on forward.

This is all fine, but those teams are still two-big teams. If your definition of a wing applies to a rebounder with power-forward size, well, sure. But two-big systems and post-centric offenses are two different things. The Rockets were a two-big system most of the year, and they hate the post.

[MaNu4Tres]

It really would, especially if Kawhi is the four.

Spurs actually do quite well with a one C, 3 wing, 1 PG lineup right now. They did vs. Miami in 13' and 14' too. Arguing whether who plays the 4 or 3 when 3 wings are on the court is dumb because Kawhi plays the 1 on offense at times and he defends the best perimeter player ( which could be the 1, 2, or 3). So saying, Spurs should go with 3 wings, with Kawhi playing the 4 doesn't imply he needs to guard power forwards -- since I know that is what your brain is thinking.




There's something wrong with your memory. You're the one who claimed Murray HAD to be the PG, even though I kept saying he could play wherever and still have the ball in his hands.

Nah something is wrong with your memory. You were clamoring about Murray defending SGs and saying Spurs must re-sign Eddie House. I said Murrays ceiling is at the highest at the PG position because he'd be defending the smallest guy on the other team ( which is usually the PG) -- that's where his edge would be for himself and the team. He'd have a physical advantage with his length being able to impede a lot of what back up PGs want to do. Having him guard bigger wings, like you suggested, would make the D worse since your plan had Spurs paying Mills 50 million to get exposed on defense every meaningful game and to hit shots once every four meaningful games.







This is all fine, but those teams are still two-big teams. If your definition of a wing applies to a rebounder with power-forward size, well, sure. But two-big systems and post-centric offenses are two different things. The Rockets were a two-big system most of the year, and they hate the post.

Did you not see my original post? I said wings preferably with size. I didn't say they need 2 6'4, 6'5" wings next to Kawhi. Read better next time.

I would rather the Spurs get a hybrid wing that has great size/length to play next to Kawhi at the 3/4 than get a traditional PF that can't defend in space and can't put the ball on floor to close outs when they're spreading the floor.

[GSH]

Chinook's is one of best posters on Internet! Unlike stupid Americans who only say stupids stuffs like "v-span is not nba levels".


NBA is like Goat sh*t, extra soft
When V-Span is on the court no games is lost
Teodosic over V-Span? You out of your mind?
V-Span clock is never broken durin' crunch time


Kill Bill Pana? Is that you?

I might not have known, if not for the goat reference.

[Chinook]

Spurs actually do quite well with a one C, 3 wing, 1 PG lineup right now. They did vs. Miami in 13' and 14' too. Arguing whether who plays the 4 or 3 when 3 wings are on the court is dumb because Kawhi plays the 1 on offense at times and he defends the best perimeter player ( which could be the 1, 2, or 3). So saying, Spurs should go with 3 wings, with Kawhi playing the 4 doesn't imply he needs to guard power forwards -- since I know that is what your brain is thinking.

The Spurs ran with Diaw in 2014. In 2013 they did go small because Miami went small. That was a desperation move that didn't really work out for them, and not something most teams do over the course of the season. Playing the four defensively is hard. None of Green, Kawhi or Simmons (for example) should do that for extended time. It wears you out.


Nah something is wrong with your memory. You were clamoring about Murray defending SGs and saying Spurs must re-sign Eddie House.

You need to go back and read what you wrote. You wanted them to let Mills walk specifically so they could make Murray the PG. No concern to getting back a better guard to put next to him. No pretense of playing the best five. Just making Murray the PG to make him the PG. And btb, the Spurs should STILL re-sign Mills.


I said Murrays ceiling is at the highest at the PG position because he'd be defending the smallest guy on the other team ( which is usually the PG) -- that's where his edge would be for himself and the team. He'd have a physical advantage with his length being able to impede a lot of what back up PGs want to do.

He could do this even if he played next to a smaller guard, and he could defend twos even if the played next to a bigger one. That's what positionless basketball actually is.


Having him guard bigger wings, like you suggested, would make the D worse since your plan had Spurs paying Mills 50 million to get exposed on defense every meaningful game and to hit shots once every four meaningful games.

I suggested that Murray learn to defend bigger guys. I've never stated that he'd be a two forever, or even all game. But the idea that he should only defend one position is such bullshit and again exactly flies in the face of positionless basketball.


Did you not see my original post? I said wings preferably with size. I didn't say they need 2 6'4, 6'5" wings next to Kawhi. Read better next time.

Love isn't a wing. Neither is Anderson or Green. All four of the top teams play two bigs. There's nothing to "read better" about. Who gives a flying fuck what Boston plays? You want a big burly 6-9, 6-10 rebounding wing next to Kawhi, I'm gonna say you want a power-forward. That's just all there is to it. Guys like the Morrises and James Johnson are power-forwards, not wings. So the pool of "wings with size" is very narrow.

[GSH]

I know what sunk cost means. I do but it was spent for this past season. I am not sure nobody would take him off our hands. He had suitors in FA this past offseason and there are teams that could take him. We won't know though bc Spurs are tight-lipped about trades and such.

I don't know Jackie Butler by the way. But Pau is not done as if he was unplayable or injured at this point like Tony is. He has value and Lamarcus really should play center about half the time in the playoffs anyways. Him and Lamarcus being unplayable together is our big problem but other teams maybe won't have that problem.


I don't understand you saying that it was spent for last season. He has a player option for $16M next season. I don't see any other team offering him that much to entice him to leave that behind. If he decides to opt out, to give the Spurs a break? I'd love to have him back at a lower price. But if he exercises his option, the only way the Spurs move him is to give up something to sweeten the deal.

Jackie Butler got a big contract from the Spurs. (People like to forget that there were national analysts who said that it was one of the shrewd pick-ups of that offseason.) Butler got his big payday, and then sat on his ass and got fat. He did nothing. I mean absolutely nothing. Shedding his contract essentially cost the team rights to Luis Scola. The ST meltdowns over losing Scola went on for years.

The Spurs don't get better by mortgaging their future to get out of one year of Pau's salary. Figure that he will exercise his option, and that money is as good as spent. He'll be a damn good backup C. Unless they can't come up with a good starting C, in which case he'll be a weak link in next year's SL.

But, no, it's not likely that anyone will take his $16M salary off the Spurs' hands, out of the goodness of their hearts.

[Chinook]

I don't understand you saying that it was spent for last season. He has a player option for $16M next season. I don't see any other team offering him that much to entice him to leave that behind. If he decides to opt out, to give the Spurs a break? I'd love to have him back at a lower price. But if he exercises his option, the only way the Spurs move him is to give up something to sweeten the deal.

Jackie Butler got a big contract from the Spurs. (People like to forget that there were national analysts who said that it was one of the shrewd pick-ups of that offseason.) Butler got his big payday, and then sat on his ass and got fat. He did nothing. I mean absolutely nothing. Shedding his contract essentially cost the team rights to Luis Scola. The ST meltdowns over losing Scola went on for years.

The Spurs don't get better by mortgaging their future to get out of one year of Pau's salary. Figure that he will exercise his option, and that money is as good as spent. He'll be a damn good backup C. Unless they can't come up with a good starting C, in which case he'll be a weak link in next year's SL.

But, no, it's not likely that anyone will take his $16M salary off the Spurs' hands, out of the goodness of their hearts.

I actually think Pau still has positive value. I think the Spurs could dump him with almost no pain. Even if they had to give up a pick like with Diaw, it's not a big deal if it lead to them acquiring a long-term fit. Like if you can get Paul or Lowry to join up just by moving Pau and a second, I think you do that and feel fine about it.

What I do agree with you about is that you don't get rid of Pau just for the sake of it. He's not a bad player, though he's not playing well at the most important time. I would like to be rid of his contract too, but it's not likely that his cap space will be used more efficiently by the next player, given the salary bubble we're in now.

[GSH]

It really would, especially if Kawhi is the four.


The Jazz didn't see fit to make Hayward an early offer. The GM has publicly apologized for "not believing in him" and offered him a max deal, but the rumor-mill says that he's pissed. Not likely that he would leave that deal, and the chance to play with Gobert. But I would love to see him on the court with Kawhi at the four, and a big man that is really good at the PnR.

Fantasy Island is that Murray develops into more of his potential, and Simmons is as good as he's looked in the playoffs. Hell, I'd offer Utah Aldridge on an S&T deal that would get Hayward the money he could have gotten in Utah. Hayward has to like the look of that Utah team, but the Spurs? And Kawhi? And the chance to do HEB commercials?

[MaNu4Tres]

The Jazz didn't see fit to make Hayward an early offer. The GM has publicly apologized for "not believing in him" and offered him a max deal, but the rumor-mill says that he's pissed. Not likely that he would leave that deal, and the chance to play with Gobert. But I would love to see him on the court with Kawhi at the four, and a big man that is really good at the PnR.

Fantasy Island is that Murray develops into more of his potential, and Simmons is as good as he's looked in the playoffs. Hell, I'd offer Utah Aldridge on an S&T deal that would get Hayward the money he could have gotten in Utah. Hayward has to like the look of that Utah team, but the Spurs? And Kawhi? And the chance to do HEB commercials?

I actually talked about this on twitter. This is the direction Spurs should go, even if it wasn't Hayward. But I hope SA kicks tires w/ Hayward over CP3 or Lowry if they intend on being players in FA.

[DPG21920]

The Jazz didn't see fit to make Hayward an early offer. The GM has publicly apologized for "not believing in him" and offered him a max deal, but the rumor-mill says that he's pissed. Not likely that he would leave that deal, and the chance to play with Gobert. But I would love to see him on the court with Kawhi at the four, and a big man that is really good at the PnR.

Fantasy Island is that Murray develops into more of his potential, and Simmons is as good as he's looked in the playoffs. Hell, I'd offer Utah Aldridge on an S&T deal that would get Hayward the money he could have gotten in Utah. Hayward has to like the look of that Utah team, but the Spurs? And Kawhi? And the chance to do HEB commercials?

Can't do S&T like that anymore.

[GSH]

I actually think Pau still has positive value. I think the Spurs could dump him with almost no pain. Even if they had to give up a pick like with Diaw, it's not a big deal if it lead to them acquiring a long-term fit. Like if you can get Paul or Lowry to join up just by moving Pau and a second, I think you do that and feel fine about it.

What I do agree with you about is that you don't get rid of Pau just for the sake of it. He's not a bad player, though he's not playing well at the most important time. I would like to be rid of his contract too, but it's not likely that his cap space will be used more efficiently by the next player, given the salary bubble we're in now.


I hope you're right about that first part. I hate the thought of giving up a pick right now, even though I know that 59 isn't very likely to bring in any real help. But it happens. And cheap role-players are getting to be a valuable commodity with this salary situation.

Mostly it's the second part about the money not being used more efficiently with whoever they would be bringing in. Then it's just a salary dump that weakens the team AND the loss of a pick. Pau was making just short of $8M before he came here, IIRC. Best case scenario is that he opts out with the intention of re-signing. I wouldn't exactly cheer over a 3 year, $22M deal. But I would love to have that extra cap space this next year. And $7M for him as a backup C next year would be just fine.

[TheGreatYacht]

No more American whites or soft choking Euros.....

[GSH]

Can't do S&T like that anymore.


New CBA? I've got to start getting out more.

No - Hayward may be pissed. But he's not so pissed that he'd give up that much money, I don't think.

[Chinook]

New CBA? I've got to start getting out more.

No - Hayward may be pissed. But he's not so pissed that he'd give up that much money, I don't think.

They haven't been able to do it since the this current one was signed (2011?). They did it to help small-market teams keep their free agents. But the result has just been guys walking and their former teams getting nothing.

[GSH]

Can't do S&T like that anymore.


They haven't been able to do it since the this current one was signed (2011?). They did it to help small-market teams keep their free agents. But the result has just been guys walking and their former teams getting nothing.

:worthy:


Well... I've still got my Fantasy Island scenario. You can't take that away from me. :lol

[objective]

I don't understand you saying that it was spent for last season. He has a player option for $16M next season. I don't see any other team offering him that much to entice him to leave that behind. If he decides to opt out, to give the Spurs a break? I'd love to have him back at a lower price. But if he exercises his option, the only way the Spurs move him is to give up something to sweeten the deal.

Jackie Butler got a big contract from the Spurs. (People like to forget that there were national analysts who said that it was one of the shrewd pick-ups of that offseason.) Butler got his big payday, and then sat on his ass and got fat. He did nothing. I mean absolutely nothing. Shedding his contract essentially cost the team rights to Luis Scola. The ST meltdowns over losing Scola went on for years.

The Spurs don't get better by mortgaging their future to get out of one year of Pau's salary. Figure that he will exercise his option, and that money is as good as spent. He'll be a damn good backup C. Unless they can't come up with a good starting C, in which case he'll be a weak link in next year's SL.

But, no, it's not likely that anyone will take his $16M salary off the Spurs' hands, out of the goodness of their hearts.


Jackie Butler was also accused of stealing a woman's coat.

[TD 21]

I would rather the Spurs get a hybrid wing that has great size/length to play next to Kawhi at the 3/4 than get a traditional PF that can't defend in space and can't put the ball on floor to close outs when they're spreading the floor.

You mean converted combo forwards, who started off as primarily small forwards, but are now almost strictly power forwards, like M. Williams, T. Young and J. Johnson? I didn't include Green, because he can also play small ball center.

I don't know if you include Aldridge in this scenario, but if so, he wouldn't be a great fit next to those types because they'd have no roll man on offense and a lack of rebounding and shot blocking. Even if, as expected, he ages into primarily playing center, he still needs to be paired with a power forward who has some elements more typically associated with centers. The third big should be more of the type you're describing, with their role dependant on match-up, like Splitter and Diaw.

Primarily playing one big lineups, on a full time basis, only make sense if you have a big similar to Duncan, that does traditional center things at a high level or if you have James or Green.

[objective]

Regarding Pau ....

I think they can offload him to Minnesota in a variety of scenarios. He and Thibs were good together, and he's gotten over his 'coming off the bench" issues.

Minnesota will probably have plenty of cap space to just absorb him considering how little of a free agent destination they are. Also, they signed Cole Aldrich and he was a disaster, less than 10 minutes a game in 62 games.

I could see a Pau for Rubio deal involving picks, or a Pau for Aldrich deal to shave off close to 9 million this coming year with only $2 guaranteed after that.

Getting the cap room this summer is looking much more desirable than waiting for next summer when the free agent class is even worse

[r0drig0lac]

Chinook's is one of best posters on Internet! Unlike stupid Americans who only say stupids stuffs like "v-span is not nba levels".


NBA is like Goat sh*t, extra soft
When V-Span is on the court no games is lost
Teodosic over V-Span? You out of your mind?
V-Span clock is never broken durin' crunch time

wtf

[bic50]

No more American whites or soft choking Euros.....
:lol

[MaNu4Tres]

You mean converted combo forwards, who started off as primarily small forwards, but are now almost strictly power forwards, like M. Williams, T. Young and J. Johnson? I didn't include Green, because he can also play small ball center.

I don't know if you include Aldridge in this scenario, but if so, he wouldn't be a great fit next to those types because they'd have no roll man on offense and a lack of rebounding and shot blocking. Even if, as expected, he ages into primarily playing center, he still needs to be paired with a power forward who has some elements more typically associated with centers. The third big should be more of the type you're describing, with their role dependant on match-up, like Splitter and Diaw.

Primarily playing one big lineups, on a full time basis, only make sense if you have a big similar to Duncan, that does traditional center things at a high level or if you have James or Green.

I'm not including LA in this scenario. I think he has one more year at best with the Spurs. He's gone by summer of 18'.

[SAGirl]

I don't understand you saying that it was spent for last season. He has a player option for $16M next season. I don't see any other team offering him that much to entice him to leave that behind. If he decides to opt out, to give the Spurs a break? I'd love to have him back at a lower price. But if he exercises his option, the only way the Spurs move him is to give up something to sweeten the deal.

Jackie Butler got a big contract from the Spurs. (People like to forget that there were national analysts who said that it was one of the shrewd pick-ups of that offseason.) Butler got his big payday, and then sat on his ass and got fat. He did nothing. I mean absolutely nothing. Shedding his contract essentially cost the team rights to Luis Scola. The ST meltdowns over losing Scola went on for years.

The Spurs don't get better by mortgaging their future to get out of one year of Pau's salary. Figure that he will exercise his option, and that money is as good as spent. He'll be a damn good backup C. Unless they can't come up with a good starting C, in which case he'll be a weak link in next year's SL.

But, no, it's not likely that anyone will take his $16M salary off the Spurs' hands, out of the goodness of their hearts.
I am sure that if they wanted to shed Pau they could.
they easily shed Tiago who was injury prone and nowhere near the player Pau is and did the same with Diaw.
They don't need to mortgage the future to shed Pau. I am positive he could find takers if he wanted, maybe not for that much, or maybe indeed for that much. But he's at market price. He is not a great pairing with Lamarcus IMO both too similar (sotf 7 footer shooters primarily, neither likes to roll or bang inside, Pau needs to play with a defensive big and so does Lamarcus etc.) We will just disagree that any future needs mortgaging. His contract is also an expiring contract next season. I am sure there is still a market for him.

Thanks for the Butler story, gives perspective. I don't think Pau has been lazy for the Spurs, he's the player he's been the past couple of seasons, he's just not a great fit with Lamarcus IMO and his minutes have decreased as a result as well as his usage.

It's no matter bc he's likely staying put. I find it hard to believe that Spurs didn't know Pau's game and weaknesses at this stage, so they signed him knowing where he's at bc they valued what he still brings.

[SAGirl]

I hope you're right about that first part. I hate the thought of giving up a pick right now, even though I know that 59 isn't very likely to bring in any real help. But it happens. And cheap role-players are getting to be a valuable commodity with this salary situation.

Mostly it's the second part about the money not being used more efficiently with whoever they would be bringing in. Then it's just a salary dump that weakens the team AND the loss of a pick. Pau was making just short of $8M before he came here, IIRC. Best case scenario is that he opts out with the intention of re-signing. I wouldn't exactly cheer over a 3 year, $22M deal. But I would love to have that extra cap space this next year. And $7M for him as a backup C next year would be just fine.
A second round pick was shed to acquire the rights to the last year of Ray McCallum's rook season in 2015-16. :0
59 pick is no different than Livio Jean Charles tbh