has any GOAT level player faced as much circumstances as lebron?

[RsxPiimp]

2007- he's just young. wasn't even supposed to be there tbh.:lol LeBron's help was so bad, tony parker won fmvp (running circles around hughes and Gibson)


2011- only stain in his resume tbh. but to his defense, nobody wss going to stop dirk who was responsible for destroying and ending the kobe-pau-phil dynasty on a sweeping and embarrassing fashion.



2014- LeBron was great but the rest of the big three simply folded which ended their dynasty. doesn't help that LeBron had the daunting task of being matched to an upcoming superstar in kawhi. (has Jordan ever faced an upcoming superstar in a finals, series? nope)



2015- come on, I usually don't believe in moral victories but if im asked to provide an illustrative sample, this series IT!!!. no kyrie, no love. LeBron's herculean effort was so eipc, he almost willed a depleted cavs to victory against a stacked roster mind you.


2017- 73 win team that added a top 3 MVP caliber player under 30, need I say more? :lol



LeBron's has faced the following superstars in the finals

Duncan/tony parker/manu
dirk
kawhi/Duncan/tony parker/manu
Durant/curry/draymond/klay
Durant/westbrook/harden


for comparison, Jordan has faced these

washed up magic/injured lakers
clyde Drexler and terry porter
barkley and a couple of chumps :lol

kemp/payton- (only legit stars the bulls has faced)
Malone and payton x 2 and some more chumps :lol



obviously, different eras but I don't care what era you place the warriors, they are simply going to dominate any nba team, bulls included.

[313]

The truth is, if the East wasn't so shitty he probably wouldn't have made the finals a lot of those years. He's been making the finals by default, and it provides a good storyline(better than if IND or TOR made the finals), but most times the real finals are the WCF.

If he would've had another contender in the East to challenge him some years where his teams weren't as good, it probably would've done more for his legacy.

[RsxPiimp]

The truth is, if the East wasn't so shitty he probably wouldn't have made the finals a lot of those years. He's been making the finals by default, and it provides a good storyline(better than if IND or TOR made the finals), but most times the real finals are the WCF.

If he would've had another contender in the East to challenge him some years where his teams weren't as good, it probably would've done more for his legacy.

come on man, even if he didn't form a big 3 in Cleveland and Miami, I think LeBron's automatic to appear in the finals. I used to think the conference is crap but I've seen him too many times bring a laughable supporting cast to the finals.

[313]

come on man, even if he didn't form a big 3 in Cleveland and Miami, I think LeBron's automatic to appear in the finals. I used to think the conference is crap but I've seen him too many times bring a laughable supporting cast to the finals.Who's the best player in the east that LeBron has stopped from getting to the finals? Carmelo Anthony? :lol

If I'm not going to blame him for losing in the finals, I can't give him credit for getting to the finals every year. He's a perennial underdog when he gets there for a reason.

[ambchang]

Kobe 97 to 00. He was young

03. It was shaq a team

04. He only had three HoF teammates

05-07. Lamar didn't exist. Butler didn't exist. The team o my had smash parker and Kwame brown.

08. Team hasn't gelled yet.

11-12 MVPau is a wuss

13-16. The teams too young.

Oh wait, you said goat level. I thought you said greatest second banana of all time level.

[Clipper Nation]

I thought you said greatest second banana of all time level.

Don't tell me even you've started overrating Kobe...

[lefty]

The truth is, if the East wasn't so shitty he probably wouldn't have made the finals a lot of those years. He's been making the finals by default, and it provides a good storyline(better than if IND or TOR made the finals), but most times the real finals are the WCF.

If he would've had another contender in the East to challenge him some years where his teams weren't as good, it probably would've done more for his legacy.

Same thing with Magic in the West, but nobody holds that. against him
The West was weak and the Lakers were stacked

[JoeTait75]

LeBron has had to overcome being drafted by and playing a decade for the Cleveland Cavaliers, who aside from possibly the Timberwolves were the worst non-relocated organization in the NBA.

In 37 years without LeBron the Cavaliers are 1,216-1,800 (40.3%) with one division title, four playoff-series victories, two ECF appearances and zero Finals appearances.

In 10 years with LeBron the Cavaliers are 563-257 (68.6%) with five division titles, 18 playoff-series victories, five ECF appearances, four Eastern Conference titles and an NBA Championship.

And it isn't as if Cleveland built an organization around LeBron. With a reckless, impulsive owner, a revolving door of coaches and GM's and some questionable draft picks, the Cavaliers still aren't a sound organization. They had the worst record in the NBA in the four years LeBron was in Miami. They're still paying the coach that beat them in Game 1 of the Finals. They've had the dominant player of his generation for a decade and were fortunate to stumble into one ridiculously improbable title with that player.

If LeBron hadn't existed/had been drafted by another team/didn't grow up in NE Ohio the Cavaliers would either be, a.) what they've normally been without LeBron that is, the Siberia of the NBA or b.) playing in Las Vegas. I think he deserves some props for how long and how far he's had to carry this sad-sack franchise.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe 97 to 00. He was young

03. It was shaq a team

04. He only had three HoF teammates

05-07. Lamar didn't exist. Butler didn't exist. The team o my had smash parker and Kwame brown.

08. Team hasn't gelled yet.

11-12 MVPau is a wuss

13-16. The teams too young.

Oh wait, you said goat level. I thought you said greatest second banana of all time level.

you do realize he was giving LeBron credit?
so obsessed ...smh

[313]

Same thing with Magic in the West, but nobody holds that. against him
The West was weak and the Lakers were stacked
Magic was 5-2 when he got to the finals.

[StrengthAndHonor]

What an awful thread. Lebron shouldn't get a pass, ever

[Bynumite]

MJ accomplished far more with less. If you go teammate for teammate, LeBron had more talent around him throughout his career and still can't match MJ's ring count and individual accolades.

How can people give LeBron a pass for being in attack mode all game and all of a sudden in the 4th quarter he always stops shooting?

[ambchang]

you do realize he was giving LeBron credit?
so obsessed ...smh

You do realize I was giving Kobe credit?

[ambchang]

Magic was 5-2 when he got to the finals.

5-4.

Lost to Pistons, bulls, Celtics and 6ers.

[313]

5-4.

Lost to Pistons, bulls, Celtics and 6ers.
still a winning record

[StrengthAndHonor]

Interesting # posted on ESPN. Lebron is 17-27 in the Finals. He now he holds the record for most losses in the Finals but yeah, lets give him credit for losing.

[ambchang]

still a winning record

Not sure what the point is. Why the arbitrary cut off at .500? We are talking different eras, different competition, different teammates, different rules, different everything.

Are you trying to say magic>lebron? There are ceetaiy arguments but finals record isn't one of them in my opinion.

[lefty]

Magic was 5-2 when he got to the finals.

They faced more tired teams that faced serious competition in the East.
Also the Celtics had injuries to key players in 87 and the Pistons got robbed in 88

I'm not saying LeBron is better than Magic. I'm just saying everybody shits on the LeBron but they overlook the other's greats failures

[DMC]

Manu tbh...

[MultiTroll]

They faced more tired teams that faced serious competition in the East.
Also the Celtics had injuries to key players in 87 and the Pistons got robbed in 88

I'm not saying LeBron is better than Magic. I'm just saying everybody shits on the LeBron but they overlook the other's greats failures
Why not? I am.
Everything you posted and more. *87 Mitch Scrubchak pulled a Zaza on Robert Parish to complete the fraudulent title. Prior to that Stern took out both Houstons starting guard since they worked Aids in 1986.

The most weak assed back to back riggers in NBA history.

[resistanze]

Interesting # posted on ESPN. Lebron is 17-27 in the Finals. He now he holds the record for most losses in the Finals but yeah, lets give him credit for losing.

It' not about giving him credit for losing in Final. It's about acknowledging losing in the finals isn't worse than losing in the first round or missing the playoffs in their prime, so there's no reason why this stat should be repeated. There's many things you can say to actually criticize LeBron.

[RsxPiimp]

Who's the best player in the east that LeBron has stopped from getting to the finals? Carmelo Anthony? :lol

If I'm not going to blame him for losing in the finals, I can't give him credit for getting to the finals every year. He's a perennial underdog when he gets there for a reason.

not necessarily a player but more of a team. wade and the heat, bosh in Toronto. heck he stopped the defending champs pistons didn't he.

[RsxPiimp]

It' not about giving him credit for losing in Final. It's about acknowledging losing in the finals isn't worse than losing in the first round or missing the playoffs in their prime, so there's no reason why this stat should be repeated. There's many things you can say to actually criticize LeBron.

:lol yeah, agree. that's an antiquated way of looking at things, an 80's/90's casual nba mindset. as if losing in the first or second round is better than than losing in the finals.

[HarlemHeat37]

Lebron-led teams have only been favored in 2 of his 8 Finals appearances, tbh..pretty crazy..

[lefty]

:wow

Zach Lowe:
"LeBron scored 39 points with 11 reb and 9 ast on 15/27 shooting in 46 minutes. He sat for less than 2 minutes and they were -12 in those 2 minutes and +7 with LeBron on this floor. LeBron has nothing to apologize for and anyone who is going to hold this over his head is a moron." This is from [his podcast with Howard Beck](http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=19581070). Noteworthy because it's rare to hear Zach feel so strongly about something. Also interesting is Beck being upset with the NBA for not anticipating the salary cap spike, even though people knew it was coming, and doing something to prevent the situation last summer.

[phxspurfan]

The truth is, if the East wasn't so shitty he probably wouldn't have made the finals a lot of those years. He's been making the finals by default, and it provides a good storyline(better than if IND or TOR made the finals), but most times the real finals are the WCF.

If he would've had another contender in the East to challenge him some years where his teams weren't as good, it probably would've done more for his legacy.

This. In the West, the LeBron teams would have been challenged/lost to many 2nd tier teams like Portland with LMA/Lillard, Memphis with Tony Allen/ZBo/Marc/Conley, Clips with Blake/CP3/DJ, hell even the Jazz would have given them hell this year. No way teams back then with guys like Ira Newble or whatever get by teams like the Suns, Mavs, Lakers etc.

That's why he has / will have a 3 for 8 finals record. Fools Gold teams.

[hitmanyr2k]

LeBron's has faced the following superstars in the finals

Duncan/tony parker/manu
dirk
kawhi/Duncan/tony parker/manu
Durant/curry/draymond/klay
Durant/westbrook/harden


for comparison, Jordan has faced these

washed up magic/injured lakers
clyde Drexler and terry porter
barkley and a couple of chumps :lol

kemp/payton- (only legit stars the bulls has faced)
Malone and payton x 2 and some more chumps :lol

obviously, different eras but I don't care what era you place the warriors, they are simply going to dominate any nba team, bulls included.

I hope this was a troll post :lol Let's not act like the Bulls didn't face offensive juggernaut teams. Also, washed up Magic? He was only a year removed from winning the MVP a year before and didn't slow down at all :lol

The '93 Suns had seven double digit scorers. In fact if you combine their top 7 scorers, they actually outscore Golden State's top 7.

Barkley, KJ , Dan Majerle, Tom Chambers, Dumas, Ainge, and Ceballos combined for 111 points per game.

Durant, Curry, Klay, Draymond, Iggy, Clark, and Pachulia combine for 103 points per game.

The 1992 Blazers are also similar to the Suns in having six double digit scorers along with Danny Ainge who just missed with 9.7. May as well round him up and say 7 double digit scorers as well.

The Blazers and Suns were both run and gun teams that played at the exact same pace as Golden State but when they ran into the Bulls (who played at almost the slowest pace in the league) they found a team that could control the pace with their triangle offense instead of playing their uptempo game.

[resistanze]

This. In the West, the LeBron teams would have been challenged/lost to many 2nd tier teams like Portland with LMA/Lillard, Memphis with Tony Allen/ZBo/Marc/Conley, Clips with Blake/CP3/DJ, hell even the Jazz would have given them hell this year. No way teams back then with guys like Ira Newble or whatever get by teams like the Suns, Mavs, Lakers etc.

That's why he has / will have a 3 for 8 finals record. Fools Gold teams.

So in this scenario where LeBron is in the West, he still somehow plays for the Cavs?

[DMC]

Lebron is the best player in the world, without question. However none of the teams he's ever played on have used ball movement to do anything but get Lebron the ball. It's similar to what's happening in OKC if Westbrook was 6'9 and 260lbs, and had an Irving and Love level set of teammates. Westbrook stat pads, this we know, and Lebron does not, however Lebron is so good at scoring that he's always the best option on offense, so when he's not on the floor it's a bit of a new thing for the team. He plays so many minutes that "no Lebron" rarely happens in the RS for teams to develop "no Lebron" play.

[lefty]

I hope this was a troll post :lol Let's not act like the Bulls didn't face offensive juggernaut teams. Also, washed up Magic? He was only a year removed from winning the MVP a year before and didn't slow down at all :lol

The '93 Suns had seven double digit scorers. In fact if you combine their top 7 scorers, they actually outscore Golden State's top 7.

Barkley, KJ , Dan Majerle, Tom Chambers, Dumas, Ainge, and Ceballos combined for 111 points per game.

Durant, Curry, Klay, Draymond, Iggy, Clark, and Pachulia combine for 103 points per game.

The 1992 Blazers are also similar to the Suns in having six double digit scorers along with Danny Ainge who just missed with 9.7. May as well round him up and say 7 double digit scorers as well.

The Blazers and Suns were both run and gun teams that played at the exact same pace as Golden State but when they ran into the Bulls (who played at almost the slowest pace in the league) they found a team that could control the pace with their triangle offense instead of playing their uptempo game.

The Blazers only had Drexler as legit star. Did Clyde have a Pippen? Buck Williams was a good PF but Grant was better. Duckworth was fat.
The Blazer were so mentally weak too

93 Suns : Majerle was an overrated defender, the Suns had no interior D. LeBron would have averaged 50 ppg against those turnstiles :lol
The Suns barely beat the Lakers and needed the refs vs the Sonics in game 7 - SIXTY FOUR FREE THROWS.

Also, KJ was playing injured and Ceballos missed the Finals. Ceballos matched up very well vs Pippen.

96 Sonics. Ok they were good, but Jordan shot like shit, Rodman was the real Finals MVP.

97 and 98 Jazz = white stiffs :lol
Game 6 of the 98 Finals was rigged as fuck :lol

[RsxPiimp]

The Blazers only had Drexler as legit star. Did Clyde have a Pippen? Buck Williams was a good PF but Grant was better. Duckworth was fat.
The Blazer were so mentally weak too

93 Suns : Majerle was an overrated defender, the Suns had no interior D. LeBron would have averaged 50 ppg against those turnstiles :lol
The Suns barely beat the Lakers and needed the refs vs the Sonics in game 7 - SIXTY FOUR FREE THROWS.

Also, KJ was playing injured and Ceballos missed the Finals. Ceballos matched up very well vs Pippen.

96 Sonics. Ok they were good, but Jordan shot like shit, Rodman was the real Finals MVP.

97 and 98 Jazz = white stiffs :lol
Game 6 of the 98 Finals was rigged as fuck :lol



truthbombs bro

[Fabbs]

Can anyone tell what WarriorRef Ed Malloy is saying to the real MVP after this dunk and burning LeBron out of and +1 while readjusting Durants pampers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPi_zPopD_M

[spursistan]

875027874797039616

I still think Jordan is the GOAT, but there is no doubt that James faced tougher teams in his Finals..

[ambchang]

875027874797039616

I still think Jordan is the GOAT, but there is no doubt that James faced tougher teams in his Finals..

It's because of parity. People can't say this team has a higher net efficiency than another team in a totally different era and conclude it's a better team. The situations are totally different.

How often do you have three allstars on one team in the 90s, let alone four? The league just went through rapid expansion (4 teams in the late 80s), and all teams were competitive, unlike now, where you can't even be considered a contender without having three allstars.

You can look at which team actually played in the finals in the 10's:
1) Dallas
2) Miami (lebron)
3) Spurs
4) Warriors
5) Cavs (Lebron)

Now you look at the first 7 years of the 90s:
1) Lakers
2) Bulls
3) Blazers
4) Suns
5) Magic
6) Rockets
7) Knicks
8) Sonics
9) Jazz

That's almost double the team, and the only reason there weren't more was because of how dominant Jordan was. Total lack of parity.