Paul detractors: What realistic path would give Spurs better championship odds?

[TD 21]

We've heard it all ad nauseam: They'd have to gut the team; he'll be drastically overpaid in years 3 and 4; he's ball dominant; he's overly demanding/tough to play with; he's a "choker". Here's the alternatives . . .

1) Run it (mostly) back and pay substantially more for current team.

2) Let majority of free agents walk, replace with relatively inexpensive short term contracts and attain as much flexibility as possible for (unimpressive) '18 free agent class.

3) Pursue Holiday, Hill, etc., instead and if successful, pay lesser but still substantial amount to significantly worse player than Paul.

Using current information at disposal (so no hypotheticals, like "Murray becomes a star"), explain how any of those get them closer to a championship than a top 6-8 player.

[coachmac87]

It's gotta be a combination of 1-2...

I've made it clear I'm on board going ALL IN on Paul..

[cd98]

No easy answers because none of the guys we are looking at will ensure we beat GSW. We'd still be heavy underdogs.

[Dex]

No easy answers because none of the guys we are looking at will ensure we beat GSW. We'd still be heavy underdogs.

Heavy underdogs?

Come on...we weren't even heavy underdogs this year, and I anticipate the team will improve somehow over the summer.

[cd98]

Heavy underdogs?

Come on...we weren't even heavy underdogs this year, and I anticipate the team will improve somehow over the summer.

We were heavy underdogs to win in 7. Some people act like the fact that we might have won game 1 by 20 if Kawhi hadn't gotten injured meant we were going to beat the Warriors to 4 games. Nonsense. Houston beat us by 20 in game 1 and we beat them down the rest of the way. Most experts gave us 1 or 2 games. That said, changing up the team to add Paul makes us different, but not necessarily better and not at GSW level.

[rastaspur]

On a bang for the buck perspective I would rather have george hill instead of cp3.

George hill's age.and size/length are the primary reasons. With his wingspan he plays like a 6'5 or above defender.

He is not ball dominant like cp3. Still in his prime and in tip top shape. Better 3 point shooter and a better defender at this point in cp3's career.

I think he would fit in seemlessly.

[spursistan]

These folks won't admit it but they are essentially in "wait out" mode that doesn't leave the team in the best position to take advantage of potential GSW misfortune in next few years (injuries, fatigue, internal strife, coaching instability/downgrade (Kerr health status) etc..)

It's just a more polite way of conceding everything to GS than Harlem's "no shame losing to the Warriors" bandwagon stance :lol..

[Chinook]

Depends on the cost, but I think Lowry is a much better fit with Kawhi and LMA. If he's max or bust, you bust. But if you can add him and someone else, that's better than Paul.

[SAGirl]

I don't really have one.
In reality, on top of a adding a significant contributor in FA, they need young player development. And also, they need to stop overpaying roleplayers. So I am against overpaying Mills or JSimms, which would take out option 2.

[cd98]

Depends on the cost, but I think Lowry is a much better fit with Kawhi and LMA. If he's max or bust, you bust. But if you can add him and someone else, that's better than Paul.

Im scared of Lowry and his propensity to disappear or get injured in the playoffs.

[TheGreatYacht]

I don't really have one.
In reality, on top of a adding a significant contributor in FA, they need young player development. And also, they need to stop overpaying roleplayers. So I am against overpaying Mills or JSimms, which would take out option 2.
So I take it you won't be on the pay Kyle bandwagon next offseason then :tu

[sexinthatsx]

Ditch cp3, wait for cap space to lure Lebron in 2018. In the meantime, bolster up with a solid PG in George Hill or a shooting point in Andre Igoudala (if Spurs have the means to pay them, of course). The staring lineup will either be:

-George Hill, Jonathan Simmons / DG, Kawhi, LMA, Pau

or

-Dejounte, Iggy, Kawhi, LMA, and Pau

for the first couple months until Parker comes back.

[TheGreatYacht]

I don't think people realize this, but George Hill is 31 years old with a more injury-prone body than CP3 :lol.... Plus his top 3 APG seasons go as followed: 5.1, 4.7, 4.1

That role player will cost no less than $25M/yr. No thanks. I'm out.

[sexinthatsx]

I don't think people realize this, but George Hill is 31 years old with a more injury-prone body than CP3 :lol.... Plus his top 3 APG seasons go as followed: 5.1, 4.7, 4.1

That role player will cost no less than $25M/yr. No thanks. I'm out.

Spurs don't need another ball dominant player right now. Just look at them when they signed LMA. What the Spurs need right now is a consistent role player that will make 3's when needed (since DG can't do that anymore), and at least have the ability to take the ball up the court (which Mills can't do). The last thing the Spurs need is giving the ball to cp3 who dribbles it out in 20 seconds out of the 24 second shot clock for an iso play or dumping it in the post to LMA who does fadeaways instead of taking it to the rim.

[TheGreatYacht]

Spurs don't need another ball dominant player right now. Just look at them when they signed LMA. What the Spurs need right now is a consistent role player that will make 3's when needed (since DG can't do that anymore), and at least have the ability to take the ball up the court (which Mills can't do). The last thing the Spurs need is giving the ball to cp3 who dribbles it out in 20 seconds out of the 24 second shot clock for an iso play or dumping it in the post to LMA who does fadeaways instead of taking it to the rim.
Let's be honest. Kawhi is the only good ball handler we have. He'll be better off taking a break and letting CP3 do his thing, just like Lebron does with Kyrie or KD does with Curry. Right now Kawhi has to be our best defender and only creator on offense, that's so fucked up that even Kerr said we're too over dependent on him.

We don't need anymore little game managers that can't run an offense and will just stand in the corner and toss it to Aldridge in the post. Spurs need stars.

[TD 21]

Again, the question is about odds. There's no move anyone can make that would make them favorites against Warriors.

Ball dominant is overstated. The more talent you play with, the less the ball will be in your hands and it can work fine as long as there's enough range shooting. Leonard-Paul-Aldridge provide that. Spurs have played a lot of ISO ball with Leonard-Aldridge previous 2 years because of lack of consistent creator at guard. Having Paul would change dynamics. Instead of forcing Aldridge to masquerade as prime Duncan in post, he'd be more of a pick-and-pop/floor spacer, like Heat Bosh and Cavaliers Love. Leonard and Paul would get more catch and shoots too, playing off of each other.



Let's be honest. Kawhi is the only good ball handler we have. He'll be better off taking a break and letting CP3 do his thing, just like Lebron does with Kyrie or KD does with Curry. Right now Kawhi has to be our best defender and only creator on offense, that's so fucked up that even Kerr said we're too over dependent on him.

We don't need anymore little game managers that can't run an offense and will just stand in the corner and toss it to Aldridge in the post. Spurs need stars.

:tu

[cd021]

Let's be honest. Kawhi is the only good ball handler we have. He'll be better off taking a break and letting CP3 do his thing, just like Lebron does with Kyrie or KD does with Curry. Right now Kawhi has to be our best defender and only creator on offense, that's so fucked up that even Kerr said we're too over dependent on him.

We don't need anymore little game managers that can't run an offense and will just stand in the corner and toss it to Aldridge in the post. Spurs need stars.

The idea of CP3 running pick and pop with Aldridge while Kawhi is able to "rest" on offense should not only make LMA a more effective player but allow Kawhi to use more energy on defense.

[TheGreatYacht]

The idea of CP3 running pick and roll with Aldridge while Kawhi is able to "rest" on offense should not only make LMA a more effective player but allow Kawhi to use more energy on defense
Spot on, tbh..

[SpurOutofTownFan]

No brainer on Paul if they can pull it off. The biggest problem the Spurs have is at PG - you all saw what happened when Parker went down. And after Kawhi went down the Spurs's offense was gone. Mills couldn't make a pass and it kills everything else.

Currently, the Spurs have no reliable PG so I'm not sure how they plan to start the year. You bring Paul and then maybe you bring Lebron the following year

[Chinook]

The idea of CP3 running pick and pop with Aldridge while Kawhi is able to "rest" on offense should not only make LMA a more effective player but allow Kawhi to use more energy on defense.

Parker can run a PnR as well as most guards. The problem for the Spurs is that LMA doesn't want to play that way, and having Paul isn't going to make him do so.

If you had

a) Kahwichael

b) a motivated LMA who came ready to play to his potential (meaning as an athletic Z-Bo will a great PnR game) and never backed down and

c) Jrue Holiday or Jeff Teague

The Spurs would be almost even with GS. But getting LMA to play better is almost independent of the guard he plays with at this point. Paul would make off-ball role-players better. He won't make iso-oriented jump-shooters better.

And no, I'm not advocating Teague or Jrue. I'm just saying that Paul and LMA aren't a great fit together unless LMA changes his game.

[dabom]

LMA and CP3 is a great fit dude. CP3 gives blake WIDE OPEN FUCKING SHOTS. LMA would not need to be so much of an ISO scorer. That's without LMA changing his game.

[tholdren]

No easy answers because none of the guys we are looking at will ensure we beat GSW. We'd still be heavy underdogs.

Wtf. Spurs would win with 4/5 of a team.

[tbdog]

Spurs don't need another ball dominant player right now. Just look at them when they signed LMA. What the Spurs need right now is a consistent role player that will make 3's when needed (since DG can't do that anymore), and at least have the ability to take the ball up the court (which Mills can't do). The last thing the Spurs need is giving the ball to cp3 who dribbles it out in 20 seconds out of the 24 second shot clock for an iso play or dumping it in the post to LMA who does fadeaways instead of taking it to the rim.

That would actually work out, as LMA does better in those situations.

[sexinthatsx]

LMA and CP3 is a great fit dude. CP3 gives blake WIDE OPEN FUCKING SHOTS. LMA would not need to be so much of an ISO scorer. That's without LMA changing his game.

cp3 doesn't give blake wide open shots... opposing teams give blake wide open shots. It's the other way around.

[sasaint]

The idea of CP3 running pick and pop with Aldridge while Kawhi is able to "rest" on offense should not only make LMA a more effective player but allow Kawhi to use more energy on defense.

Who will get LMA to set a pick?

[dabom]

cp3 doesn't give blake wide open shots... opposing teams give blake wide open shots. It's the other way around.

He makes the wide open ones. Blake would struggle without CP3.

[TheGreatYacht]

Incredible how after years of CP3 shitting on our defense using the P&P, we still question if he makes players better. Only on Spurstalk.

[dabom]

Incredible how after years of CP3 shitting on our defense using the P&P, we still question if he makes players better. Only on Spurstalk.

:lol

[dabom]

CP3 is like a wet dream for Pop. I don't know why people even try to shit on him for a PG running the offense. I thought that was what a PG was for. :lol

[tbdog]

CP is still one of the best, if not the best true point guard in the league. He is insanely efficient from everywhere, and we already have the most efficient player in Leonard. Our efficiency would be extraordinary. If we can keep Gasol (and thereby lose Parker and Green), our team percentages would be stunning. CP controls the pace. Controls the whole team. Holds players responsible. Opens things up for role players. Both Leonard and LMA would benefit immensely with CP over any other point guard available, including Holiday, Lowry and Hill (all injury prone players anyway and only Holiday is considered on the younger side.) The only concern is how will CP play like in 3 years’ time when his 25 to 30mil dollar contract is on the books with another year on top of that. That is the only issue. CP in the second half of the season probably played his best basketball in his carrer. Currently, for 2 years, I couldn’t think of another player better than CP that is available. And for those who thinks that our money should go somewhere else and Murray should start; consider this: CP avg 16,8,5 in his rookie season. By season 3, he was 20/11/5. Murray is way behind in the 8ball to get to CP season 3 level. And with possibility that Lebron may follow a year later, you find a way to get CP now and increase your chances landing another stud in 18. It just completely sucks and totally unfair that it now will take 3 studs to match Durant’s decision.

[picnroll]

Wrong thread

[cutewizard]

CP is still one of the best, if not the best true point guard in the league. He is insanely efficient from everywhere, and we already have the most efficient player in Leonard. Our efficiency would be extraordinary. If we can keep Gasol (and thereby lose Parker and Green), our team percentages would be stunning. CP controls the pace. Controls the whole team. Holds players responsible. Opens things up for role players. Both Leonard and LMA would benefit immensely with CP over any other point guard available, including Holiday, Lowry and Hill (all injury prone players anyway and only Holiday is considered on the younger side.) The only concern is how will CP play like in 3 years’ time when his 25 to 30mil dollar contract is on the books with another year on top of that. That is the only issue. CP in the second half of the season probably played his best basketball in his carrer. Currently, for 2 years, I couldn’t think of another player better than CP that is available. And for those who thinks that our money should go somewhere else and Murray should start; consider this: CP avg 16,8,5 in his rookie season. By season 3, he was 20/11/5. Murray is way behind in the 8ball to get to CP season 3 level. And with possibility that Lebron may follow a year later, you find a way to get CP now and increase your chances landing another stud in 18. It just completely sucks and totally unfair that it now will take 3 studs to match Durant’s decision.



----------------------------------------------------------------

This convinces me.

CP3!!!!!!!!!!

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=662BQeyrjoM

[cutewizard]

We

MUST

Absolutely

GET

the

Magnificent

CP3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

:bobo

:claw

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuDL9yVBw88

[cutewizard]

By god, Chris Paul is a point guard..............


no no no no no no no no

CHRIS PAUL IS A POINT GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1wRLa2GgLk

[cutewizard]

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/5/25/15689936/chris-paul-rumors-spurs-perfect

[cutewizard]

But why CP3?Why invest $150 million in a 32-year-old point guard who has never been beyond the second round?
Because he’s Chris [expletive] Paul!
Is there a more Popovichian point guard than Chris Paul? Is there a coach as exacting and CP3ian as Gregg Popovich (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/98773/gregg-popovich)?


The knock on Chris Paul is that he wears on his teammates for demanding so much, for paying such close attention to every detail and expecting everyone else to do the same. The knock on Gregg Popovich is ... exactly the same. He rides his players and expects them to limit mistakes and execute the game plan on every possession.
The bitter dismay Popovich has for an out-of-shape Boris Diaw (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21919/boris-diaw) or an out-of-control Patty Mills is the same exactly disapproval Chris Paul gives to a DeAndre Jordan (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/35088/deandre-jordan) turnover or a J.J. Redick (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21613/j-j-redick)missed assignment. They both expect so much because they are each so capable of so much.
Put them together with an inexhaustible and deferential superstar like Kawhi Leonard (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/132534/kawhi-leonard) and you have straight-up magic.
It’s also hard to imagine a better franchise for an aging legend to join to lengthen their career. Tim Duncan (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21776/tim-duncan) balled until age 40 and Manu Ginobili (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21775/manu-ginobili) showed he’s still got it at 39. Popovich’s commitment to rest — and the need to bring Dejounte Murray (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/276622/dejounte-murray) along — could add years to CP3’s career.
Fitting CP3 in with Pop, Leonard, and the Spurs is the easy part. Finding the cap space to make it happen is tougher. But if any franchise can make smart decisions to extend their unparalleled run of success, it’s the San Antonio Spurs.

[TheDoctor]

Incredible how after years of CP3 shitting on our defense using the P&P, we still question if he makes players better. Only on Spurstalk.

Pop emphatically instructed Dejounte to study how Chris Paul controls the game, to watch him closely, especially on the offensive end but yeah CP3 ain't a great fit and won't make players better LMAOOOO GTFOH

ST's scholars :lmao

[CGD]

The other (unpopular) path is to retool this year by moving pieces like LMA and Green for assets. Spurs would be conceding, but if there were ever a year...

If you can get a Bender or a Randall (and other assets) for LMA, might be a good way to develop a young big more in the Spurs mold. It would also give Murray significant run.

[TheGreatYacht]

Pop emphatically instructed Dejounte to study how Chris Paul controls the game, to watch him closely, especially on the offensive end but yeah CP3 ain't a great fit and won't make players better LMAOOOO GTFOH

ST's scholars :lmao
:lol

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Let next season play out and be free agent buyers next summer.

[TheGreatYacht]

Let next season play out and be free agent buyers next summer.
The free agent class of Dirk, Dwyane Wade, Tony Parker, Pau Gasol, Joe Johnson, and Leandro Barbosa.

We would beat the Warriors for sure with those players.... in 2008.

[sasaint]

Spurs fans are delusional about having/needing to compete for a championship every year. they have been enabled by the presence of the GOAT for longer than some fans have even been alive. A year of retooling is much better than a decade of rebuilding. Just ask a Laker fan.

[hooperflash]

Trust in PATFO

[itzsoweezee]

The Spurs are not going to throw away a year of Kawhi's prime. A point guard that can both shoot from distance and run an offense is so rare and so necessary to be successful in this league, they'd be stupid not to chase after him. Spurs will still need an athletic, shot blocking big. I have no idea where they would find that, however.

[SAGirl]

Trust in PATFO
Yea.. This offseason I am very much in spectator mode. I am pretty ambivalent about FA.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs are not going to throw away a year of Kawhi's prime. A point guard that can both shoot from distance and run an offense is so rare and so necessary to be successful in this league, they'd be stupid not to chase after him. Spurs will still need an athletic, shot blocking big. I have no idea where they would find that, however.

Spurs aren't going to do something they don't believe in. One year is no big issue if they feel next year is better.

However, even if they want things to happen this year it does not mean it will happen obviously

[TheDoctor]

Spurs fans are delusional about having/needing to compete for a championship every year. they have been enabled by the presence of the GOAT for longer than some fans have even been alive. 3 years of retooling is much better than a decade of rebuilding. Just ask a Laker fan.

Agreed, Spurs have been retooling since 2014-15.

[DAF86]

The Spurs are not going to throw away a year of Kawhi's prime. A point guard that can both shoot from distance and run an offense is so rare and so necessary to be successful in this league, they'd be stupid not to chase after him. Spurs will still need an athletic, shot blocking big. I have no idea where they would find that, however.

Mmmh, what about the guy that started most of the season for us and was, metrics wise, our best defensive player?

I don't know why Dedmon is an afterthought in most Spurs fans' heads. The dude exceded expectations and has a lot of room for improvement, imho.

If I'm the Spurs I wouldn't doubt one bit on resigning him, he's the type of center you need in today's NBA: a big, athletic, mobile guy that doesn't demand the ball on his hands.

The bigman that needs to go ASAP is fucking Aldridge. Another thing I don't get about Spurs fans: the lifetime pass this cancer gets. As long as Aldridge is here, we aren't winning shit. He just isn't built for efficient winning basketball, so the sooner we get rid of him, the sooner we can start planning on becoming a true contending team.

[sexinthatsx]

Gutting the entire Spurs team just to get cp3? No thanks. I'd rather just get Paul George back.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Either way it won't move the needle against GS, barring a Curry ankle explosion or something.

Bringing back the same team, while keeping some flexibility for the future and hoping for a break while being a 55-60 win team isn't that bad of an option, however, getting Paul or another star and having to change a lot of the roster would definitely bring more excitement for next season, albeit just as futile when it comes to competing. People like excitement.

[tbdog]

Gutting the entire Spurs team just to get cp3? No thanks. I'd rather just get Paul George back.

It will take 2 of Gasol, Parker, Green.

Simmons and Mills probably gone anyway. Dedmon is gone.

[spurs10]

Spurs aren't going to do something they don't believe in. One year is no big issue if they feel next year is better.

However, even if they want things to happen this year it does not mean it will happen obviously Couldn't agree more.

[cd021]

Ditch cp3, wait for cap space to lure Lebron in 2018. In the meantime, bolster up with a solid PG in George Hill or a shooting point in Andre Igoudala (if Spurs have the means to pay them, of course). The staring lineup will either be:

-George Hill, Jonathan Simmons / DG, Kawhi, LMA, Pau

or

-Dejounte, Iggy, Kawhi, LMA, and Pau

for the first couple months until Parker comes back.


Iggy's not leaving GSW unless its a team making him an offer that he can refuse and GSW doesn't want to match.

[portnoy1]

Let's be honest. Kawhi is the only good ball handler we have. He'll be better off taking a break and letting CP3 do his thing, just like Lebron does with Kyrie or KD does with Curry. Right now Kawhi has to be our best defender and only creator on offense, that's so fucked up that even Kerr said we're too over dependent on him.

We don't need anymore little game managers that can't run an offense and will just stand in the corner and toss it to Aldridge in the post. Spurs need stars.
I agree Spurs need talent BUT the offensive system is partly to blame as well. If you look at the way Utah ran the Flex Offense it created easier shots for everyone. As a team the Spurs are good passers, so the flex can be run. However to run it effectively you need a distributing PG who can consistently hit open jumpers. Then you need a big who is aggressive when he gets the ball down low. Aside from there obvious skill running that offense was a big reason why Malone scored a lot of points and why Stockton/dwilliams had high assist averages. TP doesn't have the vision or consistently hit jumpers, and Lamarcus isn't aggressive enough to get good position and then GO when he has it.

[TD 21]

Either way it won't move the needle against GS, barring a Curry ankle explosion or something.

Bringing back the same team, while keeping some flexibility for the future and hoping for a break while being a 55-60 win team isn't that bad of an option, however, getting Paul or another star and having to change a lot of the roster would definitely bring more excitement for next season, albeit just as futile when it comes to competing. People like excitement.

If they can convince Paul to sign a 1+1 for roughly $25M (most they can offer by salary dumping Gasol, waiving Forbes, renouncing all free agents), then opt out and sign a 4 year max the following off season, I don't see how that wouldn't move the needle. A top 6-8 player, filling the most glaring hole on the roster and not losing a single relevant piece versus the Warriors.

The whole point of flexibility, is to hopefully turn it into a high end player(s) at some point and you can't do much better than one of the 6-8 best in the league.

[DarrinS]

Expert flopper, too


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SOCNxCzb1I

[Uriel]

FWIW, Chris Paul had the 2nd highest real plus-minus in the NBA last season at +7.92, behind only LeBron James' +8.42, and ahead of even Kawhi Leonard (+7.08). He would definitely make this team better.

[tholdren]

I agree Spurs need talent BUT the offensive system is partly to blame as well. If you look at the way Utah ran the Flex Offense it created easier shots for everyone. As a team the Spurs are good passers, so the flex can be run. However to run it effectively you need a distributing PG who can consistently hit open jumpers. Then you need a big who is aggressive when he gets the ball down low. Aside from there obvious skill running that offense was a big reason why Malone scored a lot of points and why Stockton/dwilliams had high assist averages. TP doesn't have the vision or consistently hit jumpers, and Lamarcus isn't aggressive enough to get good position and then GO when he has it.
Wtf are you talking about. You dont need a pg at all to run the flex, you need guys to set screens. Spurs dont have anyone but lee.

[SAGirl]

I have been ambivalent about CP3 more than anything bc I don't really think he's coming to SA. That makes me skeptical. I tend to think Spurs stand mostly pat and then just tweak some spots due to Tony's injury and Manu perhaps retiring (with a wing spot taken by Hanga). I have wanted the Spurs to improve and the reason I think Mills and Simmons would be overpaid is similar to Pau getting 16 mill to be a bench player. It just doesn't make sense to pay a whole lot (over $10 mill a year for each player, just to have a starting conversation) when both are bench players, unless you want the Spurs to resemble the current Trail blazers..

It's really tough to tell how it will go but for similar money and a bit more I would prefer Spurs to get a better player... so in that sense I am all for signing CP3 or a some other better FA... but the tea leaves have been hard to read on this one for a while (cap issues being just one complexity) so I am in spectator mode. I don't really have strong feelings or thoughts about one direction or the other... going by experience Spurs likely stand pat though. Younger player development is probably what I look forward to the most....

[John B]

But why CP3?

Why invest $150 million in a 32-year-old point guard who has never been beyond the second round?
Because he’s Chris [expletive] Paul!
Is there a more Popovichian point guard than Chris Paul? Is there a coach as exacting and CP3ian as Gregg Popovich (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/98773/gregg-popovich)?


The knock on Chris Paul is that he wears on his teammates for demanding so much, for paying such close attention to every detail and expecting everyone else to do the same. The knock on Gregg Popovich is ... exactly the same. He rides his players and expects them to limit mistakes and execute the game plan on every possession.
The bitter dismay Popovich has for an out-of-shape Boris Diaw (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21919/boris-diaw) or an out-of-control Patty Mills is the same exactly disapproval Chris Paul gives to a DeAndre Jordan (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/35088/deandre-jordan) turnover or a J.J. Redick (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21613/j-j-redick)missed assignment. They both expect so much because they are each so capable of so much.
Put them together with an inexhaustible and deferential superstar like Kawhi Leonard (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/132534/kawhi-leonard) and you have straight-up magic.
It’s also hard to imagine a better franchise for an aging legend to join to lengthen their career. Tim Duncan (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21776/tim-duncan) balled until age 40 and Manu Ginobili (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21775/manu-ginobili) showed he’s still got it at 39. Popovich’s commitment to rest — and the need to bring Dejounte Murray (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/276622/dejounte-murray) along — could add years to CP3’s career.
Fitting CP3 in with Pop, Leonard, and the Spurs is the easy part. Finding the cap space to make it happen is tougher. But if any franchise can make smart decisions to extend their unparalleled run of success, it’s the San Antonio Spurs.


This :bobo

[DMC]

Spurs aren't going to do something they don't believe in. One year is no big issue if they feel next year is better.

However, even if they want things to happen this year it does not mean it will happen obviously

This.

THe Warriors are too powerful right now to make a meaningful run for a title. There's no reason for the Spurs to spend a ton of money trying to beat them. Instead they will probably try to get Manu to play another year to sell tickets and go as far as they can with some of the guys we have like Simmons and Murray, trodding along.

[bic50]

This.

THe Warriors are too powerful right now to make a meaningful run for a title. There's no reason for the Spurs to spend a ton of money trying to beat them. Instead they will probably try to get Manu to play another year to sell tickets and go as far as they can with some of the guys we have like Simmons and Murray, trodding along.
That's pretty weak. You can't just waste a year like that.

[DMC]

That's pretty weak. You can't just waste a year like that.

It won't be presented that way, but that will be the outcome.

[DPG21920]

That's pretty weak. You can't just waste a year like that.

What can you do if CP3 does not want to come? You can't for Paul George or Jimmy Butler to be traded to you. Can't force CP3 to sign on the dotted line. Can't force teams to take Pau/Tony/Danny in trades.

A lot has to happen for things to change and it starts with the draft coming up next week, then getting the FA you want to say yes. Just because nothing happens does not mean SA did not try.

Also, it's not wasting a year. There is nothing you can do to make yourself a favorite against GS. However, if you stay disciplined and have a plan you can at least put yourself in the best position possible over the next 2-5 years to make that run while still being a top 5 team in the league.

This isn't Monopoly where you start over after every game ends. GS has all the hotels built on their properties and we have 2 out of 3 on ours.

[DMC]

What can you do if CP3 does not want to come? You can't for Paul George or Jimmy Butler to be traded to you. Can't force CP3 to sign on the dotted line. Can't force teams to take Pau/Tony/Danny in trades.

A lot has to happen for things to change and it starts with the draft coming up next week, then getting the FA you want to say yes. Just because nothing happens does not mean SA did not try.

Also, it's not wasting a year. There is nothing you can do to make yourself a favorite against GS. However, if you stay disciplined and have a plan you can at least put yourself in the best position possible over the next 2-5 years to make that run while still being a top 5 team in the league.

This isn't Monopoly where you start over after every game ends. GS has all the hotels built on their properties and we have 2 out of 3 on ours.

And they have Boardwalk and Park Place.

People also seem to overlook the fact that GS can also acquire more talent, and probably will given their prognosis.

[DPG21920]

And they have Boardwalk and Park Place.

People also seem to overlook the fact that GS can also acquire more talent, and probably will given their prognosis.

I'm not too worried about that. They will likely be able to keep everyone next year that they want if guys like KD do take some pay cuts, but after that it will get tougher.

My hope is that GS, even with KD pay cuts is capped out for the most part. I really hope that teams offer Iggy & Livingston large money to make KD REALLY take a pay cut to keep them or they lose those guys.

Hopefully other teams build for beating GS by taking some of their assets and flexibility away.

[DMC]

Livingston is a starter coming off the bench. He's really played well, has that short range jumper down to a science.

[Vito Corleone]

Here is my idea of what San Antonio should do.

1. Re-sign Simmons.
2. Nothing else this year.

Next year.
Go after Lebron and a Point Guard that would be willing to come. Kawhi, Lebron, Aldridge, Simmons, PG

Profit

[tonight...you]

But why CP3?

Why invest $150 million in a 32-year-old point guard who has never been beyond the second round?
Because he’s Chris [expletive] Paul!
Is there a more Popovichian point guard than Chris Paul? Is there a coach as exacting and CP3ian as Gregg Popovich (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/98773/gregg-popovich)?


The knock on Chris Paul is that he wears on his teammates for demanding so much, for paying such close attention to every detail and expecting everyone else to do the same. The knock on Gregg Popovich is ... exactly the same. He rides his players and expects them to limit mistakes and execute the game plan on every possession.
The bitter dismay Popovich has for an out-of-shape Boris Diaw (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21919/boris-diaw) or an out-of-control Patty Mills is the same exactly disapproval Chris Paul gives to a DeAndre Jordan (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/35088/deandre-jordan) turnover or a J.J. Redick (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21613/j-j-redick)missed assignment. They both expect so much because they are each so capable of so much.
Put them together with an inexhaustible and deferential superstar like Kawhi Leonard (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/132534/kawhi-leonard) and you have straight-up magic.
It’s also hard to imagine a better franchise for an aging legend to join to lengthen their career. Tim Duncan (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21776/tim-duncan) balled until age 40 and Manu Ginobili (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21775/manu-ginobili) showed he’s still got it at 39. Popovich’s commitment to rest — and the need to bring Dejounte Murray (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/276622/dejounte-murray) along — could add years to CP3’s career.
Fitting CP3 in with Pop, Leonard, and the Spurs is the easy part. Finding the cap space to make it happen is tougher. But if any franchise can make smart decisions to extend their unparalleled run of success, it’s the San Antonio Spurs.
Love you girl, but do you get piss drunk and go cray on this board from time to time? The binge posting is... well I like it, but I do the same.

[tonight...you]

I have been ambivalent about CP3 more than anything bc I don't really think he's coming to SA. That makes me skeptical. I tend to think Spurs stand mostly pat and then just tweak some spots due to Tony's injury and Manu perhaps retiring (with a wing spot taken by Hanga). I have wanted the Spurs to improve and the reason I think Mills and Simmons would be overpaid is similar to Pau getting 16 mill to be a bench player. It just doesn't make sense to pay a whole lot (over $10 mill a year for each player, just to have a starting conversation) when both are bench players, unless you want the Spurs to resemble the current Trail blazers..

It's really tough to tell how it will go but for similar money and a bit more I would prefer Spurs to get a better player... so in that sense I am all for signing CP3 or a some other better FA... but the tea leaves have been hard to read on this one for a while (cap issues being just one complexity) so I am in spectator mode. I don't really have strong feelings or thoughts about one direction or the other... going by experience Spurs likely stand pat though. Younger player development is probably what I look forward to the most....

Good reason.

[sasaint]

Here is my idea of what San Antonio should do.

1. Re-sign Simmons.
2. Nothing else this year.

Next year.
Go after Lebron and a Point Guard that would be willing to come. Kawhi, Lebron, Aldridge, Simmons, PG

Profit

If the Spurs do #1 & #2 this year, they won't need to sign a PG next year because Dijon will be a rising star with a year under his belt as a starter.

[cjw]

If every other team is punting because they think the Warriors are "too good", why not make a run at them if you have a top five player in the league? The Spurs were up 20 points in all four Warriors games until Kawhi got hurt - yes, they would have still likely lost in 5 or 6, but they're closer than any other team. If you can add the best all around PG since Kidd (apologies to Nash, Curry and Russ) you do it.

Yes, the Warriors' other guys are saying all the right things now but a team could throw dumb money at Iggy, Livingston and Clark (please Brooklyn). That depth is key for them. One injury to Durant, Green or Curry and the gap closes even more.

[coachmac87]

If every other team is punting because they think the Warriors are "too good", why not make a run at them if you have a top five player in the league? The Spurs were up 20 points in all four Warriors games until Kawhi got hurt - yes, they would have still likely lost in 5 or 6, but they're closer than any other team. If you can add the best all around PG since Kidd (apologies to Nash, Curry and Russ) you do it.

Yes, the Warriors' other guys are saying all the right things now but a team could throw dumb money at Iggy, Livingston and Clark (please Brooklyn). That depth is key for them. One injury to Durant, Green or Curry and the gap closes even more.

Seriously can't think of a team in NBA history that "punts" a season with a Top 3 player in the league being in their prime..I dunno how many times I have to say it but Kawhi only has a couple years left and truly contending is what he wants..until Kawhi is locked up long term..never get comfortable.

Spurs are in a weird phase because the Big 3 era is supposed to be over but Kawhi changes things and you can't stop competing for a ring EVERY YEAR.

[cjw]

Seriously can't think of a team in NBA history that "punts" a season with a Top 3 player in the league being in their prime..I dunno how many times I have to say it but Kawhi only has a couple years left and truly contending is what he wants..until Kawhi is locked up long term..never get comfortable.

Spurs are in a weird phase because the Big 3 era is supposed to be over but Kawhi changes things and you can't stop competing for a ring EVERY YEAR.

Cannot waste Kawhi's prime if he could leave in two years. He probably stays, but can't bank on it.

Not just that, but if there are 25 teams punting and 4 trying to compete with the Warriors, assets will be cheaper to come by as there won't be as much demand.

[therealtruth]

The Spurs need another superstar player to play with Kawhi. It's clear now that LMA is not that guy. He needs to be the 3rd best player. Maybe Paul George?

[buujness]

If the Spurs are to go after a big free agent, I'd rather they go after Gordon Hayward; you'd get a strong wing-man for Kawhi in the prime of his career throughout the length of the contract who can handle the ball, shoot and guard multiple positions. Not to mention that he comes from the team who runs the most similar offense to San Antonio's in Utah, so the learning curve would theoretically be smaller.

That being said, I wouldn't be mad if they obtained CP3. Both are really good options. And if they can't get either of those, then you can explore trades and rely on the growth of your young'uns and further familiarity with the system for a team with seven new players last year on a 60+ win team. A team could do worse.

[wildbill2u]

It would be great to have Paul. What realistic path would bring him here?

We get these threads from time to time that propose great moves that have no realistic chance of happening.

[tholdren]

Cannot waste Kawhi's prime if he could leave in two years. He probably stays, but can't bank on it.

Not just that, but if there are 25 teams punting and 4 trying to compete with the Warriors, assets will be cheaper to come by as there won't be as much demand.

Leonard will not leave sa unless the spurs fuck up the coaching search when poop leaves

[$pursDynasty]

It would be great to have Paul. What realistic path would bring him here?

We get these threads from time to time that propose great moves that have no realistic chance of happening.
I want Pau gone, and if getting rid of him nets us an all star level player that much the better. His three point shot isn't enough for me to want to retain him at that price. If we can use Pau's contract to somehow net us CP3 or heck a Boogie (or even a longshot Paul George rental or Jimmy Butler). An All star level player that could be effective against the Dubs or Cavs added to the roster, since I don't think Pau is an all star player anymore and I know he isn't effective against the Dubs.

[Joseph Kony]

Spurs can theoretically add Paul and still have money in 2018 for another solid player. You people thinking spurs have a realistic shot to get any big name FA is ridiculous. So if Paul says yes spurs will do what it takes to make room. Fuck our depth. Spurs with Paul will attract some ring chasers and PATFO has proven they can plug players in year by year and make it work. And besides if spurs can make it happen they can at least compete with GS and all it takes is 1 injury to KD or Curry and spurs are easily in the finals. Bottom line if we can get Paul you do it. Anyone who disagrees is retarded tbh

[$pursDynasty]

Livingston is a starter coming off the bench. He's really played well, has that short range jumper down to a science.
actually if Paul is just using us as a stalking horse, I wouldn't mind going after Livingston at a moderate price. He has starters skills is a matchup nightmare and would only be a short term place holder for MVParker immediately and Dijon long term. I would prefer him to Hill and the other pg FA's not named CP3 and might come at a cheaper price (not much cheaper because then he would stay with the Dubs).

[cjw]

actually if Paul is just using us as a stalking horse, I wouldn't mind going after Livingston at a moderate price. He has starters skills is a matchup nightmare and would only be a short term place holder for MVParker immediately and Dijon long term. I would prefer him to Hill and the other pg FA's not named CP3 and might come at a cheaper price (not much cheaper because then he would stay with the Dubs).

This has the double effect of also weakening GS - they can't replace him with anything more than the tiny room exception.

Livingston has literally no shooting range - literally doesn't shoot beyond 18 feet. That works for GS but could create floor clogging issues with the Spurs.

[lilbthebasedgod]

We don't have a realistic path. Might as well rebuild

[soxxx]

You could do a direct trade of Gasol + Draft picks for Paul George. It would be a one year "rental" but Gasol is good as gone anyay, costs the same amount, and the draft picks arent that big of a deal.

If we landed CP3 you would have to strongly consider doing this.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It would be great to have Paul. What realistic path would bring him here?

We get these threads from time to time that propose great moves that have no realistic chance of happening.

Dumping Pau or Parker and then relinquishing Manu's hold would likely get you a lot of the way there.

The issue is that getting someone to eat salary would require giving away talent. If the cost is Danny Green you are creating a gaping hole at the 2.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You could do a direct trade of Gasol + Draft picks for Paul George. It would be a one year "rental" but Gasol is good as gone anyay, costs the same amount, and the draft picks arent that big of a deal.

If we landed CP3 you would have to strongly consider doing this.

:lol why would the Pacers do that?

[portnoy1]

Wtf are you talking about. You dont need a pg at all to run the flex, you need guys to set screens. Spurs dont have anyone but lee.

I agree about the screens, but a PG that can deliver the ball/hit OPEN shots is needed. Also a Big man who is decisive on the catch. Those two things are still needed after all the screening has been done to get them open. Take the time and watch how it was run with Jazz from the late 80s-the late 2000s.

[DPG21920]

:lol why would the Pacers do that?

Because PG is leaving for nothing. Lakers prob won't offer a first round pick since they can sign Pg for free in free agency.

Getting a first round pick plus the same salary relief as PG leaving is better than nothing

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Because PG is leaving for nothing. Lakers prob won't offer a first round pick since they can sign Pg for free in free agency.

Getting a first round pick plus the same salary relief as PG leaving is better than nothing

You left out the Gasol part.

[$pursDynasty]

I want to option Pau for either CP3, or Boogie more so than PG13 but barring those two not happening a year PG rental while hoping to convince him SA is the place to be wouldn't NE the worst outcome.

[DMC]

The Spurs are notorious for making do with what they can raise in their own garden and only bring in pieces. These big name free agents have never been part of the building process in San Antonio, and I don't know why Spurs fans suddenly think it should be or will be. If this were to happen, the Spurs would be just like other teams, with a group of guys who don't play well together, poor locker room chemistry and players throwing each other under the bus. What makes the Spurs good is that average players can become good players in San Antonio and get minutes whereas on other teams, your Simmons or Murray types will be pine riders or trade fodder for players with names even if they don't have any game. This is why I laugh when the Lakers talk about developing their young guys instead of bringing in a couple big names. That's not how they operate, but it is how the Spurs operate. Just the fact that the Celtics are ready to trade away the 1st overall pick is amazing and says they don't value the draft class enough to think it makes a difference for them. I cannot imagine the Spurs trading away a 1st overall pick.

[SAGirl]

The Spurs are notorious for making do with what they can raise in their own garden and only bring in pieces. These big name free agents have never been part of the building process in San Antonio, and I don't know why Spurs fans suddenly think it should be or will be. If this were to happen, the Spurs would be just like other teams, with a group of guys who don't play well together, poor locker room chemistry and players throwing each other under the bus. What makes the Spurs good is that average players can become good players in San Antonio and get minutes whereas on other teams, your Simmons or Murray types will be pine riders or trade fodder for players with names even if they don't have any game. This is why I laugh when the Lakers talk about developing their young guys instead of bringing in a couple big names. That's not how they operate, but it is how the Spurs operate. Just the fact that the Celtics are ready to trade away the 1st overall pick is amazing and says they don't value the draft class enough to think it makes a difference for them. I cannot imagine the Spurs trading away a 1st overall pick.
That's a very good point, but unless they tank a season a d that can only happen if Kawhu gets injured their options in the draft are limited. Last 2 seasons they have made rubs at FA... (and tried to sign KD). Their core was too old to be sustainable around Kawhi and that have drafted roleplayers which is fine if they had that second star (which LMA hasn't played like this season). Anywys FA is the only way to add a real second banana.

I am ready to see the young Spurs develop.

[DMC]

That's a very good point, but unless they tank a season a d that can only happen if Kawhu gets injured their options in the draft are limited. Last 2 seasons they have made rubs at FA... (and tried to sign KD). Their core was too old to be sustainable around Kawhi and that have drafted roleplayers which is fine if they had that second star (which LMA hasn't played like this season). Anywys FA is the only way to add a real second banana.

I am ready to see the young Spurs develop.

Oh they give a half hearted try at free agents but they don't run the franchise like they are freeing up cap space, that's for sure. You cannot have it both ways if you're not in LA, Miami or NY.

[CGD]

The Spurs are notorious for making do with what they can raise in their own garden and only bring in pieces. These big name free agents have never been part of the building process in San Antonio, and I don't know why Spurs fans suddenly think it should be or will be. If this were to happen, the Spurs would be just like other teams, with a group of guys who don't play well together, poor locker room chemistry and players throwing each other under the bus. What makes the Spurs good is that average players can become good players in San Antonio and get minutes whereas on other teams, your Simmons or Murray types will be pine riders or trade fodder for players with names even if they don't have any game. This is why I laugh when the Lakers talk about developing their young guys instead of bringing in a couple big names. That's not how they operate, but it is how the Spurs operate. Just the fact that the Celtics are ready to trade away the 1st overall pick is amazing and says they don't value the draft class enough to think it makes a difference for them. I cannot imagine the Spurs trading away a 1st overall pick.

This is spot on, and only supported by the Spurs recent track record bringing in "stars" via free agency (Jefferson and LMA). It's hard to bring in a dude and expect them to adopt the Spurs "culture" when they've been used to doing thing their way. Paul George would be another in the mold of these past two "major FA" signings.

I'm for a reload/rebuild year, and would welcome flipping some established pieces for picks or recent draftees. So long as the front office infrastructure remains, I dont think Kawahi is that big of a risk to leave as other here fear. He's not a mental midget.

[SAGirl]

This is spot on, and only supported by the Spurs recent track record bringing in "stars" via free agency (Jefferson and LMA). It's hard to bring in a dude and expect them to adopt the Spurs "culture" when they've been used to doing thing their way. Paul George would be another in the mold of these past two "major FA" signings.

I'm for a reload/rebuild year, and would welcome flipping some established pieces for picks or recent draftees. So long as the front office infrastructure remains, I dont think Kawahi is that big of a risk to leave as other here fear. He's not a mental midget.

If only but they can't compete for a championship while at teh same time flipping rotation players for development pieces... so they haven't gone this way either.

[Leetonidas]

The Spurs are notorious for making do with what they can raise in their own garden and only bring in pieces. These big name free agents have never been part of the building process in San Antonio, and I don't know why Spurs fans suddenly think it should be or will be. If this were to happen, the Spurs would be just like other teams, with a group of guys who don't play well together, poor locker room chemistry and players throwing each other under the bus. What makes the Spurs good is that average players can become good players in San Antonio and get minutes whereas on other teams, your Simmons or Murray types will be pine riders or trade fodder for players with names even if they don't have any game. This is why I laugh when the Lakers talk about developing their young guys instead of bringing in a couple big names. That's not how they operate, but it is how the Spurs operate. Just the fact that the Celtics are ready to trade away the 1st overall pick is amazing and says they don't value the draft class enough to think it makes a difference for them. I cannot imagine the Spurs trading away a 1st overall pick.

Maybe this philosophy worked for the last 20 years because of Tim Duncan being a top 10 GOAT player but it's not going to get the job done in today's NBA and the spurs would be foolish to think it will. As great as Kawhi is he has a long way to go before even sniffing Tim

[Leetonidas]

And besides I would disagree anyway. Spurs courted Webber. Spurs were close to adding Jason Kidd. They also went after J. oneal. spurs added then-sought after free agent Finley. They traded for RJ to be a big 4. And they went after LMA and most recently KD. Spurs definitely try to go after big names when they can like any other team

[cd98]

And besides I would disagree anyway. Spurs courted Webber. Spurs were close to adding Jason Kidd. They also went after J. oneal. spurs added then-sought after free agent Finley. They traded for RJ to be a big 4. And they went after LMA and most recently KD. Spurs definitely try to go after big names when they can like any other team

Yes. People forget how hard it is to get a high quality free agent in his prime. It's even tougher now. I don't see many moves by Spurs except to bring over a few overseas players, and those won't move the needle against GSW.

[DPG21920]

You left out the Gasol part.

Huh? The Gasol part = the salary relief. PG opting out free's up that money for IND. Trading Pau allows the trade to be legal salary wise while keeping the freeing of salary up the same since Pau's deal expires next year.

[DAF86]

I want to option Pau for either CP3, or Boogie more so than PG13 but barring those two not happening a year PG rental while hoping to convince him SA is the place to be wouldn't NE the worst outcome.

Paul George would be a more important piece, than cp3 or Cousins, in trying to matchup with the Warriors, tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Huh? The Gasol part = the salary relief. PG opting out free's up that money for IND. Trading Pau allows the trade to be legal salary wise while keeping the freeing of salary up the same since Pau's deal expires next year.

Why would the Pacers take on that albatross and give us George for a first round pick that is likely to be shit?

[DPG21920]

Why would the Pacers take on that albatross and give us George for a first round pick that is likely to be shit?

Are you confused? It's not an albatross. He's only on the books for this year. If they aren't getting offers, getting an expiring contract that comes off the books the same time as PG (meaning they take on no salary) plus getting a first rounder is perhaps the best they will get.

PG is leaving. Many teams, if they think PG is dead set on LA, is not going to offer much. Some may, but this is the type of deal SA should offer. Will it work? Who knows, but that type of deal may very well end up being what IND gets unless someone like CLE thinks they can convince PG to stay and offers up a more substantial player vs pick (i.e. Love).

[cjw]

If anything, make the Lakers sweat that he may actually stick around in SA or Cleveland and make the Lakers spend some assets to get him now.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Because PG is leaving for nothing. Lakers prob won't offer a first round pick since they can sign Pg for free in free agency.

Getting a first round pick plus the same salary relief as PG leaving is better than nothing

There's no salary relief - Gasol's contract would expire exactly when PG's would when he opts out. Besides, Pacers can't attract anyone so they really have no use of cap space. They'll go in a rebuilding mode and will easily get a better offer than the 29th pick.

[cutewizard]

hmmmmmm

[Chinook]

There's no salary relief - Gasol's contract would expire exactly when PG's would when he opts out. Besides, Pacers can't attract anyone so they really have no use of cap space. They'll go in a rebuilding mode and will easily get a better offer than the 29th pick.

I'm extremely curious as to what they are actually going to get. Woj said they also want starting-caliber players, which I assume means not prospects. Sad thing is, the Spurs had a better chance to offer that last year than they do now.

Though Indy does have a couple of bad contracts I could see them wanting to move. Something like this:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycjay47a

plus picks, of course. It's hard question as to whether it's worth it to take on all that long-term salary, though the 2019 free-agent class is pretty legit.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm extremely curious as to what they are actually going to get. Woj said they also want starting-caliber players, which I assume means not prospects.

They probably couldn't afford to bottom out but the way I understand it they'd be looking for someone like, say Saric, who can play right away than for a vet starter. We'll see what they'll get but imo a year of keeping PG and the chance to be in playoff contention would be worth more to them than a late 1st round pick and fillers.

[DPG21920]

They probably couldn't afford to bottom out but the way I understand it they'd be looking for someone like, say Saric, who can play right away than for a vet starter. We'll see what they'll get but imo a year of keeping PG and the chance to be in playoff contention would be worth more to them than a late 1st round pick and fillers.

Why would being a playoff team, knowing PG is gone be more valuable than 1. A first round pick and not taking on salary & 2. A worse 1st rounder of your own (because you made the playoffs vs being in the lottery). Makes absoultely zero sense.

[DPG21920]

There's no salary relief - Gasol's contract would expire exactly when PG's would when he opts out. Besides, Pacers can't attract anyone so they really have no use of cap space. They'll go in a rebuilding mode and will easily get a better offer than the 29th pick.

Ok - I think you know what I meant by "relief". It meant not messing with taking on salary in return (unless it was for a player they actually like). It may very well end up IND getting a deal that nets them picks + cheap young "talent" (if any at all) + the same expiring so they don't take on salary beyond next year.

You are making assumptions they will get better than the 29th pick. IMO, it's possible, but not at all likely. The only thing I can see them getting "better" is actual player if they can convince PG to look at other teams besides LA.

If that is the case, say CLE or BOS, IND may actually get players and picks. But if he's dead set on LA, I highly doubt they will get much better than 29th pick because at that point the only teams that will gamble will all be damn good teams hoping to convince PG to stay with winning (CLE - no picks or late, SA - 29th pick, etc..)

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Why would being a playoff team, knowing PG is gone be more valuable than 1. A first round pick and not taking on salary & 2. A worse 1st rounder of your own (because you made the playoffs vs being in the lottery). Makes absoultely zero sense.

Because most teams try to make money and to put butts on seats and prefer being in the playoffs over ping pong balls. Especially small market teams that have no chance at a championship in the foreseeable future anyway.

[Ice009]

Why would being a playoff team, knowing PG is gone be more valuable than 1. A first round pick and not taking on salary & 2. A worse 1st rounder of your own (because you made the playoffs vs being in the lottery). Makes absoultely zero sense.

Yep. I'm wondering what the heck he's talking about. If PG stays and is gone at the end of next season, why would the Pacers want a lower pick to go with him leaving?

[DPG21920]

Because most teams try to make money and to put butts on seats and prefer being in the playoffs over ping pong balls. Especially small market teams that have no chance at a championship in the foreseeable future anyway.

Nah - not in situations like this. You by FAR see more teams in this scenario, unless they can work a deal with a team outside of LA like I said (to get actual talent like Love, etc..) tank in this situation. Very few fight it and especially with a situation that is very rare with a player coming out this publicly saying he's gone.

[DPG21920]

I agree that IND would much prefer to stay a playoff team, but that is predicated on whether or not Paul George gives the ok to be traded to CLE, SA, BOS, etc. where IND can actually get a decent value for him.

If he stays committed to "only LA" they are in big time trouble value wise and the tank will be on unless someone really takes a big gamble

[Chinook]

Because most teams try to make money and to put butts on seats and prefer being in the playoffs over ping pong balls. Especially small market teams that have no chance at a championship in the foreseeable future anyway.

That's especially true for the Pacers who seem to be completely against ever bottoming out. I'm sure they would prefer both upside and current production. But I don't know how many of those guys will be available.

[DPG21920]

That's especially true for the Pacers who seem to be completely against ever bottoming out. I'm sure they would prefer both upside and current production. But I don't know how many of those guys will be available.

Bird is gone now. The days of brining in Al Jefferson and Monta to claw out 1 more win are probably over. It's why Bird is gone IMO and why PG is leaving. Have to think a change in the way they do things, after seeing BOS/PHI leap frog them is in the cards.

[Chinook]

Bird is gone now. The days of brining in Al Jefferson and Monta to claw out 1 more win are probably over. It's why Bird is gone IMO and why PG is leaving. Have to think a change in the way they do things, after seeing BOS/PHI leap frog them is in the cards.

Philly hasn't leaped over anybody yet. Bird is gone because he thought he was better than he was. He tried to low-ball Lance, alienated Hill and West and had a public pissing match with PG. That doesn't even get into how he did Granger. Dude caught fire in a jar and then spent years pissing on it until it went out.

[DPG21920]

Philly hasn't leaped over anybody yet. Bird is gone because he thought he was better than he was. He tried to low-ball Lance, alienated Hill and West and had a public pissing match with PG. That doesn't even get into how he did Granger. Dude caught fire in a jar and then spent years pissing on it until it went out.

We will have to disagree about Philly. I mean, you are technically correct with regards to PHI not being ahead in the standings. I'm talking about putting your team in a great position though - not the actual standings. But ultimately we will see how that works out and position only matters if it materializes.

But my point is right now, even IND would switch rosters and situations with PHI if they had the choice. Thats what I meant

[SAGirl]

Philly hasn't leaped over anybody yet. Bird is gone because he thought he was better than he was. He tried to low-ball Lance, alienated Hill and West and had a public pissing match with PG. That doesn't even get into how he did Granger. Dude caught fire in a jar and then spent years pissing on it until it went out.
We can add to the list:
He fired their coach after ECF appearances and all in a humiliating fashion. He was terrible to that team. Then once PG more privately expressed he wanted out, he played tough ball with Ainge and others, effectively worsening the situation. He knew the tank was on and wanted no part of it. Literally screwed up a team.

[Chinook]

We can add to the list:
He fired their coach after ECF appearances and all in a humiliating fashion. He was terrible to that team. Then once PG more privately expressed he wanted out, he played tough ball with Ainge and others, effectively worsening the situation. He knew the tank was on and wanted no part of it. Literally screwed up a team.

Completely forgot about that. And it makes it worse than he hired Nate to fill the roll. You could tell it was just a personal thing.

[DPG21920]

Completely forgot about that. And it makes it worse than he hired Nate to fill the roll. You could tell it was just a personal thing.

I'm not defending Bird - just saying that, in addition to what you all mentioned, grasping for straws killed the team. I doubt that happens now.

[DrSteffo]

Keep the team culture and keep finding underrated players overseas. We are only one really good draft pick or good move away from another championship. Add hard working, tough players rather than divas who can dunk and defend if they are really into the game. Stay "boring" and play as a team.

[SAGirl]

Keep the team culture and keep finding underrated players overseas. We are only one really good draft pick or good move away from another championship. Add hard working, tough players rather than divas who can dunk and defend if they are really into the game. Stay "boring" and play as a team.
In reality I have no idea who you replace him with but I don't think the Spurs will ring while they have Aldridge as a second banana. I'd love to be wrong, but there are roleplayers in the team that have outplayed him. It happens regularly, maybe it's someone different on different occasions but he gets outplayed by guys in his own team regularly.

[DrSteffo]

I don't care much for Aldridge either. He is boring enough but not a fighter.

[cutewizard]

Trade Aldridge, even I soured on him, hmmmmmppp

[JohnnyMax]

The way Paul plays would cripple the Spurs. If anyone plays team fundamental ball it's the Spurs. Paul is an ISO player who pretends to be a field general.

[DMC]

You gotta rob Peter to pay Paul. That means you got to sign some Golden State players. You don't have to be as good as Golden State, you can just reduce how good they are. Franchises should be working on that together.

[cutewizard]

What can the Spurs do to be competitive with Golden State>????

[SAGirl]

What can the Spurs do to be competitive with Golden State>????
I wouldn't bring Pau back... he didn't play well against them... and he significantly slows down a bench that likes to play faster,
but then again what can you do against that team?

[cutewizard]

By any chance can we get Gordon Hayward??

[Mr. Body]

By any chance can we get Gordon Hayward??

Are you trading Kawhi Leonard or something?

[cutewizard]

Are you trading Kawhi Leonard or something?

---------------------------

Nope. Hehe

[TheDoctor]

Are you trading Kawhi Leonard or something?
D-League.

Kawhi and Hayward can switch positions (SG<-->SF) with no problem.

[LittleCriminal]

Why not put leonard at the point guard position?

[DPG21920]

You gotta rob Peter to pay Paul. That means you got to sign some Golden State players. You don't have to be as good as Golden State, you can just reduce how good they are. Franchises should be working on that together.

We will hopefully see the with Iggy & Livingston and to a lesser degree Clark.

[Mr. Body]

D-League.

Kawhi and Hayward can switch positions (SG<-->SF) with no problem.

Whatevs. For that money get a player at a position of need.

[LittleCriminal]

D-League.

Kawhi and Hayward can switch positions (SG<-->SF) with no problem.

Can you imagine that starting lineup?

Leonard
Green
Hayward
Aldridge
Gasol

[cd98]

D-League.

Kawhi and Hayward can switch positions (SG<-->SF) with no problem.

Even better, Kawhi at the 4.

[TheDoctor]

Whatevs. For that money get a player at a position of need.
I agree. But if you were asking about the trade because positions Verde was gone in that scenario.

[itzsoweezee]

Mmmh, what about the guy that started most of the season for us and was, metrics wise, our best defensive player?

I don't know why Dedmon is an afterthought in most Spurs fans' heads. The dude exceded expectations and has a lot of room for improvement, imho.

If I'm the Spurs I wouldn't doubt one bit on resigning him, he's the type of center you need in today's NBA: a big, athletic, mobile guy that doesn't demand the ball on his hands.

The bigman that needs to go ASAP is fucking Aldridge. Another thing I don't get about Spurs fans: the lifetime pass this cancer gets. As long as Aldridge is here, we aren't winning shit. He just isn't built for efficient winning basketball, so the sooner we get rid of him, the sooner we can start planning on becoming a true contending team.

Dedmon is going to get a big raise. Spurs can't afford him

[callo1]

Build a team which allows the Spurs to switch everything while at the same time mitigating defensive breakdowns. If you look at who they drafted, that is exactly what they are trying to do. Only time will tell if Blossomgame and White can provide what is needed.

I think Dejounte is the future starting pg of this team. I would hate to see Paul come in and stunt his growth. Start him from game one next year and let him develop. I feel that by the playoffs he would be ready.

The reason why LA sucked so bad is simple...no Kawhi. Kawhi drew so much attention that teams could not afford strong double teams on LA. When Kawhi went down, the offense broke down. Had Tony been healthy, he would have at least been able to lead the team and control pace better. Add the David Lee injury into the mix and it was just too much. I think LA was catching too much blame for his poor play. He rightfully deserved some of it, but at the same time, much of it was not his fault, it was just circumstance. To avoid blame, he did deflected, and in doing so, really hurt his value. I am completely fine with him staying, because I know that he has to play his butt off to regain the reputation of his game.

If a situation arises where the Spurs can benefit from trading LA, then by all means, they must do so, but there are very few legitimate opportunities out there to do so. People here are clamoring for shipping him out, and at the same time saying we need a big.

[ceperez]

Build a team which allows the Spurs to switch everything while at the same time mitigating defensive breakdowns. If you look at who they drafted, that is exactly what they are trying to do. Only time will tell if Blossomgame and White can provide what is needed.

I think Dejounte is the future starting pg of this team. I would hate to see Paul come in and stunt his growth. Start him from game one next year and let him develop. I feel that by the playoffs he would be ready.

The reason why LA sucked so bad is simple...no Kawhi. Kawhi drew so much attention that teams could not afford strong double teams on LA. When Kawhi went down, the offense broke down. Had Tony been healthy, he would have at least been able to lead the team and control pace better. Add the David Lee injury into the mix and it was just too much. I think LA was catching too much blame for his poor play. He rightfully deserved some of it, but at the same time, much of it was not his fault, it was just circumstance. To avoid blame, he did deflected, and in doing so, really hurt his value. I am completely fine with him staying, because I know that he has to play his butt off to regain the reputation of his game.

If a situation arises where the Spurs can benefit from trading LA, then by all means, they must do so, but there are very few legitimate opportunities out there to do so. People here are clamoring for shipping him out, and at the same time saying we need a big.

Spurs really need a 2nd offense option and hopefully an LMA and Green trade gets us a Paul George or perhaps someone lesser.

So here's the team now with all its assets:

Murray/White/Parker/Forbes
Simmons/Hanga
Leonard/Blossomgame
Anderson/Bertans/(Missing All-star)
Pau/Multinov

[cutewizard]

Rosen | How to dethrone the Warriors

OFFENSE



Do not be sucked in to playing small ball.
Instead, feature a quick-footed post-up big man, who can pass, shoot and, most importantly, make quick, explosive moves.
Both the center and the power forward must be menacing shot-blockers.
Attack GS’s small-ball lineup by always sending these two bigs to the offensive glass.
Any smart, good-shooting, long-armed point and shooting guards would work.
The bench has to be deep and versatile.
Because trying to run with the Warriors is futile, an opponent must fast break only on turnovers and any other optimal situations. When running opportunities do present themselves, 3-pointers should be shunned and the ball must be forcefully driven to the hoop.
Set the pace with slow-down, but quick-passing and quick-cutting sets. Actually, the Triangle would be extremely effective.
In any case, avoid quick shots and make the Warriors play defense for a minimum of 20 seconds on every possession.
Get Steph Curry involved in as many high- or mid-level screens as possible, thereby forcing him to switch on to a bigger, stronger player who has the ability to drive into the lane. Overall, and except for his fast hands, Curry is the weakest link in the Warriors defense.
Take good care of the ball.
That means making no out passes or cross-court passes while the passer is airborne.


DEFENSE



The Warriors certainly feature several players who are excellent shooters from downtown.
However, more damaging than their triples are the numerous layups, dunks and floaters generated by dive-cuts, back-door cuts, screen-rolls and baseline screens that demand perfect coordination from the defenders.
To counteract these devastating high-percentage interior shots, various zones must be employed and staffed by long-armed, quick-footed defenders.
For example, a well-rehearsed, semi-trapping 1-3-1 alignment with a dominant shot-blocker nearest the hoop and a secondary shot-blocker in the middle. However, the only Warriors who should be trapped are Curry (but only if he bags three consecutive treys) and Kevin Durant (always).
Throw in an occasional 2-1-2 and 1-2-2. Also some match-up zone.
Change defensive looks after ever timeout, quarter break and especially after the clock is stopped for free throws. This, to prevent the Warriors from getting into a comfortable rhythm against any of the defenses.
These defenses will effectively negate the Warriors’ perpetual-motion offense as well as the efficiency of their screen/roll game.
Overplay Klay Thompson’s right shoulder.
Zones will work because the zone offenses used in the NBA are simplistic and are minimally effective.
However, one of the detriments to playing zones is the vulnerability to consistent outside shooting. For sure, forcing the Warriors to shoot 50 or more treys will often be costly, but playing straight-up defense certainly hasn’t worked.
Let Draymond Green shoot as many 3-pointers as he wants.
Another drawback in playing zones is yielding offensive rebounds, since the defending bigs have no specific opponents to box out. That’s why the frontcourt must feature long, quick, hungry rebounders.
Zones also need a few extra seconds to set up, which make them more susceptible to fast breaks.
Also, offensive guards and wings must diligently retreat on defense whenever a shot goes up. This, to prevent one of the Warriors from leaking out.


But there’s a much more viable way to subdue the Warriors. That is, if the Spurs can take the court with a healthy Tony Parker (or Chris Paul?) and an undamaged Kawhi Leonard.
In fact, it says here that had Zaza Pachulia not stomped on Leonard’s foot, today’s victory parade would have been celebrated in San Antonio.
ByCharley Rosen (https://www.fanragsports.com/author/crosen/)

[ceperez]

You gotta rob Peter to pay Paul. That means you got to sign some Golden State players. You don't have to be as good as Golden State, you can just reduce how good they are. Franchises should be working on that together.

PATFO did not realize this when they went for Aldridge instead of trying to sign Green. Heck, if we had Green we would have been more competitive.

I will try to get Livingston and Iggy in free agency if possible.

Roster:

Murray/White/Parker
Green/Simmons
Leonard/Livingston/BlossomGame
Igoudala/Anderson/Bertans
Dedmon/Pau

[SAGirl]

Rosen | How to dethrone the Warriors

OFFENSE



Do not be sucked in to playing small ball.
Instead, feature a quick-footed post-up big man, who can pass, shoot and, most importantly, make quick, explosive moves.
Both the center and the power forward must be menacing shot-blockers.
Attack GS’s small-ball lineup by always sending these two bigs to the offensive glass.
Any smart, good-shooting, long-armed point and shooting guards would work.
The bench has to be deep and versatile.
Because trying to run with the Warriors is futile, an opponent must fast break only on turnovers and any other optimal situations. When running opportunities do present themselves, 3-pointers should be shunned and the ball must be forcefully driven to the hoop.
Set the pace with slow-down, but quick-passing and quick-cutting sets. Actually, the Triangle would be extremely effective.
In any case, avoid quick shots and make the Warriors play defense for a minimum of 20 seconds on every possession.
Get Steph Curry involved in as many high- or mid-level screens as possible, thereby forcing him to switch on to a bigger, stronger player who has the ability to drive into the lane. Overall, and except for his fast hands, Curry is the weakest link in the Warriors defense.
Take good care of the ball.
That means making no out passes or cross-court passes while the passer is airborne.


DEFENSE



The Warriors certainly feature several players who are excellent shooters from downtown.
However, more damaging than their triples are the numerous layups, dunks and floaters generated by dive-cuts, back-door cuts, screen-rolls and baseline screens that demand perfect coordination from the defenders.
To counteract these devastating high-percentage interior shots, various zones must be employed and staffed by long-armed, quick-footed defenders.
For example, a well-rehearsed, semi-trapping 1-3-1 alignment with a dominant shot-blocker nearest the hoop and a secondary shot-blocker in the middle. However, the only Warriors who should be trapped are Curry (but only if he bags three consecutive treys) and Kevin Durant (always).
Throw in an occasional 2-1-2 and 1-2-2. Also some match-up zone.
Change defensive looks after ever timeout, quarter break and especially after the clock is stopped for free throws. This, to prevent the Warriors from getting into a comfortable rhythm against any of the defenses.
These defenses will effectively negate the Warriors’ perpetual-motion offense as well as the efficiency of their screen/roll game.
Overplay Klay Thompson’s right shoulder.
Zones will work because the zone offenses used in the NBA are simplistic and are minimally effective.
However, one of the detriments to playing zones is the vulnerability to consistent outside shooting. For sure, forcing the Warriors to shoot 50 or more treys will often be costly, but playing straight-up defense certainly hasn’t worked.
Let Draymond Green shoot as many 3-pointers as he wants.
Another drawback in playing zones is yielding offensive rebounds, since the defending bigs have no specific opponents to box out. That’s why the frontcourt must feature long, quick, hungry rebounders.
Zones also need a few extra seconds to set up, which make them more susceptible to fast breaks.
Also, offensive guards and wings must diligently retreat on defense whenever a shot goes up. This, to prevent one of the Warriors from leaking out.


But there’s a much more viable way to subdue the Warriors. That is, if the Spurs can take the court with a healthy Tony Parker (or Chris Paul?) and an undamaged Kawhi Leonard.
In fact, it says here that had Zaza Pachulia not stomped on Leonard’s foot, today’s victory parade would have been celebrated in San Antonio.
ByCharley Rosen (https://www.fanragsports.com/author/crosen/)

Good suggestions.

[DAF86]

Dedmon is going to get a big raise. Spurs can't afford him

Of course he is going to get a big raise, if you are planning him to be your center for the future you have to pay the guy. Depending on how much he asks, I would be willing to make the effort.

[therealtruth]

I agree with Rosen on not trying to beat them at small ball. They have better and more smallball players. You need to control the tempo and get easy baskets in the paint. You also need enough length to defend and bother their passing game.

[Mr. Body]

I agree with Rosen on not trying to beat them at small ball. They have better and more smallball players. You need to control the tempo and get easy baskets in the paint. You also need enough length to defend and bother their passing game.

They're eventually going to get beat by a long, quick, strong team that gums their offense up.

[cutewizard]

They're eventually going to get beat by a long, quick, strong team that gums their offense up.

-------------------------

Question is which team right, hope its the Spurs one of these days......