Woj: Pau Gasol to opt out and re-sign long-term with Spurs

[coachmac87]

I guess Woj and others are just dummies and since they didn't cite, on command any examples, it means what they said is false:

http://thehoopdoctors.com/2017/05/brooklyn-nets-willing-to-absorb-bad-contracts-via-trade-for-draft-picks-and-prospects/


They did that by getting Russell and taking on Mozgov contract

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not saying it isn't optimal. I'm saying it's not likely the one they're actively pursuing.

Maybe. They really have never been in this position. Tim and DRob retired before it became an issue. There really has been no one else of this stature. Lesser players in similar circumstances have been moved. It's not like the Spurs would be screwing him. He has been paid better than he has produced for the past 3 years. He still gets paid the $15.5m.

We will see.

[Ice009]

Double the number of years left on the deal and add 1. He has 1 year left so its stretched over 3 years. Just prorate it ie $5.16m per year.

Thanks. So does that mean he still gets to stay on the Spurs? His contract is just stretched over 3 years? Have many teams does this before? I haven't really heard of it being done much, but then again, I don't follow other teams.

[DPG21920]

They did that by getting Russell and taking on Mozgov contract

That is one transaction - likely of many. This time they got Russell and gave a pick. Other times they will want to replenish their draft pick stock; as the article very clearly mentions.

[TimDunkem]

I wonder how he'd feel if he's let go and the Spurs rang without him. :lol

[DPG21920]

Thanks. So does that mean he still gets to stay on the Spurs? His contract is just stretched over 3 years? Have many teams does this before? I haven't really heard of it being done much, but then again, I don't follow other teams.

No - he's effectively waived. But for me, it's unclear on the rules on re-signing him and when it would be possible. What I *think* happens is you can re-sign him basically any time though.

[Ice009]

No - he's effectively waived. But for me, it's unclear on the rules on re-signing him and when it would be possible. What I *think* happens is you can re-sign him basically any time though.

Well if he doesn't stay on the team then, why wouldn't you go the trade route first. Why are people even talking about stretching if he's waived. You may as well look for a trade to get his whole contract off the books and try and keep Simmons and/or Green instead. Is the chances of keeping Simmons and Green possible if TP is traded instead of stretched or does it make no difference? Sorry if this has already been asked and/or answered in the thread before.

If you can re-sign him in the same season, though, then maybe stretching is worth looking into, but that would only be worth doing if the Spurs think he can still be a helpful player which no-one is going to know coming off of that injury, so again, may as well look at trading him first if you need that cap space for a big free agent signing.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I guess Woj and others are just dummies and since they didn't cite, on command any examples, it means what they said is false:

http://thehoopdoctors.com/2017/05/brooklyn-nets-willing-to-absorb-bad-contracts-via-trade-for-draft-picks-and-prospects/

That is not an example and the article doesn't say they are going to take the 29th pick and eat $15m. Please quote the portion you think does though. That should be fun.

[coachmac87]

That is not an example and the article doesn't say they are going to take the 29th pick and eat $15m. Please quote the portion you think does though. That should be fun.

Stop being retarded

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Thanks. So does that mean he still gets to stay on the Spurs? His contract is just stretched over 3 years? Have many teams does this before? I haven't really heard of it being done much, but then again, I don't follow other teams.

He is a UFA as far as I can tell. I see provisions where when he signs with another team the stretched amount is reduced by how much he signs for but I see nothing prohibiting him from signing back to his original team. I only scanned it though.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q66

[DPG21920]

Well if he doesn't stay on the team then, why wouldn't you go the trade route first. Why are people even talking about stretching if he's waived. You may as well look for a trade to get his whole contract off the books and try and keep Simmons and/or Green instead. Is the chances of keeping Simmons and Green possible if TP is traded instead of stretched or does it make no difference? Sorry if this has already been asked and/or answered in the thread before.

If you can re-sign him in the same season, though, then maybe stretching is worth looking into, but that would only be worth doing if the Spurs think he can still be a helpful player which no-one is going to know coming off of that injury, so again, may as well look at trading him first if you need that cap space for a big free agent signing.

No worries - I don't mind helping where I can. You hit the nail on the head. There is a big difference, not just this year with who SA could keep while getting max money by trading TP vs stretching him, but the next two years as well.

That's what I said with regards to stretch vs trade: If you are going to stretch TP makes no sense to not trade him with regards to it being offensive to fans/TP.

However, the reason to stretch might be because no team will take TP (not likely) or SA doesn't want to give up an asset to trade TP (more likely).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Stop being retarded

I'm looking for examples of salary dumps that are similar. That article says that they are looking to trade for picks and talent but the 29th pick is not worth $15m.

The Russell-Lopez trade is not an example.

[DPG21920]

I'm looking for examples of salary dumps that are similar. That article says that they are looking to trade for picks and talent but the 29th pick is not worth $15m.

The Russell-Lopez trade is not an example.

You are looking at it wrong. How dense are you? There are plenty of examples - do some damn research if you are going to come at me and not take my word for it. I'm not going through the damn trouble of digging them up myself; I don't remember off the top of my head immediately any examples, but I know I have seen them enough times that if I looked, I could find them.

The aren't eating 15M. There is a salary floor they have to hit. They are paying that money NO MATTER WHAT. It's either pay the money to reach the floor or get TP to hit the floor and get a first round pick for your trouble. It's really not a new concept nor a complicated one to understand if you aren't just trying to be annoying.

[coachmac87]

I'm looking for examples of salary dumps that are similar. That article says that they are looking to trade for picks and talent but the 29th pick is not worth $15m.

The Russell-Lopez trade is not an example.

No it's not...but you're not understanding the concept of the article and how that can relate to Spurs-Parker...

The Nets are willing to take bad contract (Parker) for picks or prospects (29th)

What first round picks do the Nets have currently in the next couple years? Hmmmm let me know...

It makes sense for both sides..but unfortunately it won't happen and Green will be the casualty..,

[GSH]

I guess Woj and others are just dummies and since they didn't cite, on command any examples, it means what they said is false:

http://thehoopdoctors.com/2017/05/brooklyn-nets-willing-to-absorb-bad-contracts-via-trade-for-draft-picks-and-prospects/


Yeah, but the Spurs aren't "desperate to offload long-term money". We're talking about 1 year of salary for Tony vs. a 3 year stretch. I want to ask you a serious question, then I'm putting this to bed for the night.

You keep talking how the Spurs will have huge flexibility next season - and it's true. But you act like the $5M from stretching Tony would screw up the next two seasons' cap space. So much so that you would give up a first round pick to get rid of all of Tony's salary this year. So here's the question:

Would you give up Dejounte Murray, right now, to flush Tony's contract to Brooklyn? (Don't say "It depends on whether that $5m let them sign a max player" - we don't know that either way.) The point is, if you would give up this year's first round pick, why not last year's first round pick?

If the Spurs stretch Tony, they clear $10M in cap space this season. If they trade him, they clear $15M. The extra $5M hit next year wouldn't hurt as badly as missing out on another Murray caliber player at a cheap salary.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are looking at it wrong. How dense are you? There are plenty of examples - do some damn research if you are going to come at me and not take my word for it. I'm not going through the damn trouble of digging them up myself; I don't remember off the top of my head immediately any examples, but I know I have seen them enough times that if I looked, I could find them.

The aren't eating 15M. There is a salary floor they have to hit. They are paying that money NO MATTER WHAT. It's either pay the money to reach the floor or get TP to hit the floor and get a first round pick for your trouble. It's really not a new concept nor a complicated one to understand if you aren't just trying to be annoying.

Again. I am not going to prove your assertion and for there supposedly being so many examples you sure do come up empty. You should have figured by now that I don't find you credible in the least from our past interactions. Asking you to prove your assertions is not an unreasonable standard. I certainly would meet that standard myself.

And sure there is a floor but

a) eating Parker's salary is not the only option and
b) While the Spurs would need to do this quickly, the Nets do not need to act quickly as the floor is not going to be accounted until the season starts in 4 months.
c) they are still eating a $15m contract for something you admit is worth 1/5th of that.

[MultiTroll]

However, the reason to stretch might be because no team will take TP (not likely).
Which NBA team would take Parker?

[BillMc]

I agree. Nothing signaled at all which is what I meant with my original Pau/SA conversation. SA "could not" have spoken with CP yet because he's with LAC and that would be tampering.

TD can send feelers out through their friendship and Wake Forest connection, and be an unofficial conduit of communication. Much like Draymond did with Durant. League can't stop players/expplayers from talking. I guarantee Timmy has sent a text or two in Paul's direction, and I'm sure Pop and RC knows what CP3 told Timmy.

[jehawk81]

Again. I am not going to prove your assertion and for there supposedly being so many examples you sure do come up empty. You should have figured by now that I don't find you credible in the least from our past interactions. Asking you to prove your assertions is not an unreasonable standard. I certainly would meet that standard myself.

And sure there is a floor but

a) eating Parker's salary is not the only option and
b) While the Spurs would need to do this quickly, the Nets do not need to act quickly as the floor is not going to be accounted until the season starts in 4 months.
c) they are still eating a $15m contract for something you admit is worth 1/5th of that.

Dayum... what's up with ya'lls personal beef :wow

[elemento]

I told you guys :lol

It's crazy how you guys don't know how Pop and the FO operate.

Spurs are going to squeeze that old ass as much as they can. TP and Manu following the same path obviously

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No it's not...but you're not understanding the concept of the article and how that can relate to Spurs-Parker...

The Nets are willing to take bad contract (Parker) for picks or prospects (29th)

What first round picks do the Nets have currently in the next couple years? Hmmmm let me know...

It makes sense for both sides..but unfortunately it won't happen and Green will be the casualty..,

It says picks AND prospects.

And sorry but the 29th pick is not a valuable asset. It's worth $3m not $15m.

The 29th is not going to make up for trading away their lottery picks.

[SAGirl]

that's not what jabari young just stated on the radio. he indicated it was a move to clear space for being able to keep as much as they can from this roster and pursue a PG. He also stated that this PG would likely not be chris paul and that simmons has a number in his head, which simmons will not budge from, that young gives a 50/50 chance of the spurs matching, depending on what else transpires. now, if you have a source that contradicts this information (i.e. pau's move to not opt in) so that this is more than speculation on our part, feel free to share.
Thanks for sharing that. Then it's not as good news as I thought.
I tend to get an ominous feeling about it now like objective.

[GSH]

Dayum... what's up with ya'lls personal beef :wow


Fuzzy has been snoring and keeping DPG up at night. DPG keeps using all the damn not water in the mornings. They'll work it out. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dayum... what's up with ya'lls personal beef :wow

I think his analysis is about as facile as possible but that is besides the point.

That a team would take on a $15m contract for a late round first is a significant claim. Past history has shown that a late round pick is worth around $3m. I am asking for proof and he won't give any telling me that I am a fool for not buying it.

Significant claims require significant proof.

[Ice009]

I told you guys :lol

It's crazy how you guys don't know how Pop and the FO operate.

Spurs are going to squeeze that old ass as much as they can. TP and Manu following the same path obviously

Told us what? Who are they going to squeeze?

[coachmac87]

It says picks AND prospects.

And sorry but the 29th pick is not a valuable asset. It's worth $3m not $15m.

The 29th is not going to make up for trading away their lottery picks.

Oh my bad...I left out Kyle Anderson :lmao

[TimDunkem]

I told you guys :lol

It's crazy how you guys don't know how Pop and the FO operate.

Spurs are going to squeeze that old ass as much as they can. TP and Manu following the same path obviouslyST just never learns. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh my bad...I left out Kyle Anderson :lmao

Well certainly they will get a third team for that haul and we'll get a lottery pick.

[coachmac87]

Thanks for sharing that. Then it's not as good news as I thought.
I tend to get an ominous feeling about it now like objective.

Jabari pretty much stated Plan B...

[DPG21920]

Yeah, but the Spurs aren't "desperate to offload long-term money". We're talking about 1 year of salary for Tony vs. a 3 year stretch. I want to ask you a serious question, then I'm putting this to bed for the night.

You keep talking how the Spurs will have huge flexibility next season - and it's true. But you act like the $5M from stretching Tony would screw up the next two seasons' cap space. So much so that you would give up a first round pick to get rid of all of Tony's salary this year. So here's the question:

Would you give up Dejounte Murray, right now, to flush Tony's contract to Brooklyn? (Don't say "It depends on whether that $5m let them sign a max player" - we don't know that either way.) The point is, if you would give up this year's first round pick, why not last year's first round pick?

If the Spurs stretch Tony, they clear $10M in cap space this season. If they trade him, they clear $15M. The extra $5M hit next year wouldn't hurt as badly as missing out on another Murray caliber player at a cheap salary.

The 5M would hit for 2 years, not just one. I think it's a big deal. Dead money can really hurt teams and SA is still dealing with dead money from Tim.

The answer is yes. I would not trade Murray with the befefit of hindsight. But I would trade the 29th pick. I'm not saying SA will have any flexibility really next year - at least not big, if they are making moves this year. Im saying I don't want what flexibility they may have to be hampered by 5M in dead TP money for 2 years.

Would I give up Kyle Anderson, Livio Jean Charles, Blair? Yes. Tiago, Murray, TP, etc..no. But before the the draft pick is made there are expected values (even if sa is far better than the rest).

Is it debatable? For sure. But again, it's the expected value of 29 + Simmons + the fact Danny would still be on the team + 5M in cap space for two straight years I would be getting in this scenario.

[SAGirl]

Ugh, I have the same sinking feeling I had when Jefferson opted out.

This is probably bad news.

Pau and his corpse stinking up the Spurs roster for even more years, as he gets progressively worse and worse.

Him shaving off 5 million next year to stiff around for another two is awful in two ways:

A: The discount in 17-18 does jack nothing as far as helping sign meaningful free agents

B:. screws with the future cap flexibility everyone seems so excited about.

I just hope they do the right thing and renounce him.
Hmmm based on the comments from Jabari Young I guess I now expect a moderate PG addition and basically the same crew. Seems like Simmons is indeed going for the money and frankly we can't blame him. This is his payday and he may not get another like it.

Spurs practically standing pat but paying more for the same roster ... old guys getting older.

This is typical ... I shouldn't even feel disappointment.

[DPG21920]

TD can send feelers out through their friendship and Wake Forest connection, and be an unofficial conduit of communication. Much like Draymond did with Durant. League can't stop players/expplayers from talking. I guarantee Timmy has sent a text or two in Paul's direction, and I'm sure Pop and RC knows what CP3 told Timmy.

Oh I agree - I'm just not operating under the assumption though we know it happens *Paul George cough*

[DPG21920]

Dayum... what's up with ya'lls personal beef :wow

:lol There is no beef. There is a people who don't like Fuzzy (a lot) and him trying to come at me (which is dumb).

[DPG21920]

Thanks for sharing that. Then it's not as good news as I thought.
I tend to get an ominous feeling about it now like objective.

What does not make sense (to me) with this logic is that Pau opting out doesn't help SA keep their own players. SA has Mills & Simmons rights. SA can go over cap to sign them. Why would Pau take a pay cut to save SA ownership money when they aren't improving their team?

I mean, him taking less money gives SA what money (if he's signing for 8M for example) to sign what level of PG?

[DPG21920]

I think his analysis is about as facile as possible but that is besides the point.

That a team would take on a $15m contract for a late round first is a significant claim. Past history has shown that a late round pick is worth around $3m. I am asking for proof and he won't give any telling me that I am a fool for not buying it.

Significant claims require significant proof.

You're citing my 3M value (that you somehow trust) but not the other part of what I and Woj said. K.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol There is no beef. There is a people who don't like Fuzzy (a lot) and him trying to come at me (which is dumb).

I don't feel I am coming at you. We were having a conversation about the Spurs options and you laid out a specious claim about teams taking on TP's salary for the 29th pick.

There is no reason beyond blind faith to believe what you are saying. Apparently me not giving you presumption is coming at you but you are the one calling me pigheaded.

[AFBlue]

Hmmm based on the comments from Jabari Young I guess I now expect a moderate PG addition and basically the same crew. Seems like Simmons is indeed going for the money and frankly we can't blame him. This is his payday and he may not get another like it.

Spurs practically standing pat but paying more for the same roster ... old guys getting older.

This is typical ... I shouldn't even feel disappointment.

The Spurs FO didn't ask Pau to opt out so they could go after George Hill. They are most definitely going to make a pitch to CP3, and it's clear they have a plan in place to make a compelling offer.

Whether they succeed is a different story. But make no mistake, this was about lining things up to make a run at the best PG on the market...nothing short of it.

[GSH]

I think his analysis is about as facile as possible but that is besides the point.

That a team would take on a $15m contract for a late round first is a significant claim. Past history has shown that a late round pick is worth around $3m. I am asking for proof and he won't give any telling me that I am a fool for not buying it.

Significant claims require significant proof.


I think he's right on this one, Fuzzy. They have announced that they have the room to take bad contracts in exchange for players and/or picks. Future picks are always so damned protected that it's either going to be fairly low in the first, or fall to a second rounder because the first rounder was protected. (That happens all the time - makes me crazy.) Boston (for instance) has a shitload of picks stockpiled, but a number of them are going to be protected. A lot of those protected first round picks, you might as well just call second round picks, because that's what they are going to turn into.

You guys already talked about them having to make the floor anyway. I'm pretty sure they could take the trade and turn right around and waive/stretch him. For them, getting a known first round pick this season is probably about as good as they will get - or at least close. I don't think anyone is going to give them a lottery pick to take a contract from them. So there are only so many slots between that and the Spurs first round pick. The list is pretty short. Maybe someone will offer them a low first and a prospect? Maybe.

[coachmac87]

The Spurs FO didn't ask Pau to opt out so they could go after George Hill. They are most definitely going to make a pitch to CP3, and it's clear they have a plan in place to make a compelling offer.

Whether they succeed is a different story. But make no mistake, this was about lining things up to make a run at the best PG on the market...nothing short of it.


Ding Dong the witch is dead....

[DAF86]

Stop it with all these useless cap space gymnastics. If the Spurs want to get Paul, the best thing they can do is to trade Aldridge. In fact, even if they don't get Paul the best thing they can do is to trade Aldridge, tbh.

[DPG21920]

I don't feel I am coming at you. We were having a conversation about the Spurs options and you laid out a specious claim about teams taking on TP's salary for the 29th pick.

There is no reason beyond blind faith to believe what you are saying. Apparently me not giving you presumption is coming at you but you are the one calling me pigheaded.

You can keep calling it specious because you dont understand it, but that does not make it true.

You can say you aren't coming at me, even though others are calling you out for it, that doesn't make it reality.

It's not blind faith - it's understanding the NBA and seeing that it's been done before plenty of times and that it's not some wild claim that you make it out to be.

[AFBlue]

I don't feel I am coming at you. We were having a conversation about the Spurs options and you laid out a specious claim about teams taking on TP's salary for the 29th pick.

There is no reason beyond blind faith to believe what you are saying. Apparently me not giving you presumption is coming at you but you are the one calling me pigheaded.

What's funny is that y'all are arguing over which permutation of a scenario is more likely for a scenario that has almost no chance of happening.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're citing my 3M value (that you somehow trust) but not the other part of what I and Woj said. K.

TimVP is the one that bandied around that number several years ago. I actually expect it has gone up given cap inflation. I trust him but he also backs up his claims. You don't.

Woj said that they would take on picks and prospects. It did not say what thresholds or values were involved. That is why I asked you to quote the portion of the article you felt indicated the nets would take on TPs deal for the 29th pick.

All you did was link it. That is precisely the type of facile analysis I have come to expect from you.

[DPG21920]

:lol

[TimDunkem]

Welp, this thread is dead.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What's funny is that y'all are arguing over which permutation of a scenario is more likely for a scenario that has almost no chance of happening.

I agree that the Nets are unlikely to take that deal. We are not arguing over what will happen but rather what the options are.

We have no idea what the Spurs think about TP's deal. I'm not going to front that I know what PATFO are thinking.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You can keep calling it specious because you dont understand it, but that does not make it true.

You can say you aren't coming at me, even though others are calling you out for it, that doesn't make it reality.

It's not blind faith - it's understanding the NBA and seeing that it's been done before plenty of times and that it's not some wild claim that you make it out to be.

What do I not understand. Be specific.

And who is calling me out? The post in question works both ways, dim.

[AFBlue]

Stop it with all these useless cap space gymnastics. If the Spurs want to get Paul, the best thing they can do is to trade Aldridge. In fact, even if they don't get Paul the best thing they can do is to trade Aldridge, tbh.

Will only happen if they get a legit talent in return. Not sure of the cap implications, but the Porzingis thing peaked my interest. Aldridge and pick #29? Doubt that gets it done.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think he's right on this one, Fuzzy. They have announced that they have the room to take bad contracts in exchange for players and/or picks. Future picks are always so damned protected that it's either going to be fairly low in the first, or fall to a second rounder because the first rounder was protected. (That happens all the time - makes me crazy.) Boston (for instance) has a shitload of picks stockpiled, but a number of them are going to be protected. A lot of those protected first round picks, you might as well just call second round picks, because that's what they are going to turn into.

You guys already talked about them having to make the floor anyway. I'm pretty sure they could take the trade and turn right around and waive/stretch him. For them, getting a known first round pick this season is probably about as good as they will get - or at least close. I don't think anyone is going to give them a lottery pick to take a contract from them. So there are only so many slots between that and the Spurs first round pick. The list is pretty short. Maybe someone will offer them a low first and a prospect? Maybe.

I am sure they would take TPs contract but it would take more than just the 29th pick. Teams can trade players too.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I think his analysis is about as facile as possible but that is besides the point.

That a team would take on a $15m contract for a late round first is a significant claim. Past history has shown that a late round pick is worth around $3m. I am asking for proof and he won't give any telling me that I am a fool for not buying it.

Significant claims require significant proof.

Doesn't Philly have a history of doing this? I remember them making several transactions over the past several years to try to reach the salary floor. I'm pretty sure they made a trade with Denver under similar circumstances- taking on McGee's huge contract to reach the floor and receiving a later first round pick to do so. I don't remember all of the specifics, but while it will be virtually impossible to find an exact replica of DPG's proposed trade I think that this is at least in the same ballpark.

[DPG21920]

DPG:

https://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mczn1f4yJZ1qev1c5o1_400.gif

[GSH]

The 5M would hit for 2 years, not just one. I think it's a big deal. Dead money can really hurt teams and SA is still dealing with dead money from Tim.

The answer is yes. I would not trade Murray with the befefit of hindsight. But I would trade the 29th pick. I'm not saying SA will have any flexibility really next year - at least not big, if they are making moves this year. Im saying I don't want what flexibility they may have to be hampered by 5M in dead TP money for 2 years.

Would I give up Kyle Anderson, Livio Jean Charles, Blair? Yes. Tiago, Murray, TP, etc..no. But before the the draft pick is made there are expected values (even if sa is far better than the rest).

Is it debatable? For sure. But again, it's the expected value of 29 + Simmons + the fact Danny would still be on the team + 5M in cap space for two straight years I would be getting in this scenario.


The Spurs are supposed to be one of the best teams in the league at finding the hidden gems in the draft. A 29 pick in their hands is (or should be) worth more than it would be in the Nets' hands. And with the salary escalation going on, those young players on cheap rookie deals have more value. We've talked about it on here too many times. You said what I wanted to hear though. It's closer than you were thinking, when you put it in those terms.

Do me one favor. Don't tell me that the $5M stretch is for two more years, like I don't know it's for two more years. :lol Right this moment, the Spurs only have something like $24M on the books for '19-'20. That $5M carry for Parker would be pretty insignificant. Yes, it all counts. But I would gladly take that on vs. losing out on another player like Murray this year. I believe in the Spurs FO's ability to find a draft gem, and I think this is a great year to find a solid player down that far. Not a star, unless they just get lucky. But still, a player they will be glad to have on the roster - especially on a rookie scale contract.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Doesn't Philly have a history of doing this? I remember them making several transactions over the past several years to try to reach the salary floor. I'm pretty sure they made a trade with Denver under similar circumstances- taking on McGee's huge contract to reach the floor and receiving a later first round pick to do so. I don't remember all of the specifics, but while it will be virtually impossible to find an exact replica of DPG's proposed trade I think that this is at least in the same ballpark.

McGee was a $10m contract and it was a lottery protected pick. That is much much better than 29.

The 76ers were also in tank mode. The Nets don't have their pick next year so they have no reason to tank.

[GSH]

I am sure they would take TPs contract but it would take more than just the 29th pick. Teams can trade players too.


Reminds me of an old joke, "Oh, we've already established that you're a whore. Now we're just arguing over the price." Brooklyn is definitely I whore mode. I'm sure they will try to get as much as possible out of any salary dump they take on. If it was, say, Chandler Parsons' remaining 3 years/ $72M, or Joakim Noah's 3/$55M? Yeah, I think it would take more than the 29 pick in this draft. You think they can get more than a first round pick for Tony's single season. I can live with that. Difference of opinion, and not even a really big one.

[SAGirl]

You are looking at it wrong. How dense are you? There are plenty of examples - do some damn research if you are going to come at me and not take my word for it. I'm not going through the damn trouble of digging them up myself; I don't remember off the top of my head immediately any examples, but I know I have seen them enough times that if I looked, I could find them.

The aren't eating 15M. There is a salary floor they have to hit. They are paying that money NO MATTER WHAT. It's either pay the money to reach the floor or get TP to hit the floor and get a first round pick for your trouble. It's really not a new concept nor a complicated one to understand if you aren't just trying to be annoying.
Off the top of my head I remember Philadelphia in the middle of their process taking up an injured Javale MCGee in a rather large contract from Denver ... in exchange for picks. I think if you search Philly in their process of looking for picks maybe you find examples....

[DPG21920]

The Spurs are supposed to be one of the best teams in the league at finding the hidden gems in the draft. A 29 pick in their hands is (or should be) worth more than it would be in the Nets' hands. And with the salary escalation going on, those young players on cheap rookie deals have more value. We've talked about it on here too many times. You said what I wanted to hear though. It's closer than you were thinking, when you put it in those terms.

Do me one favor. Don't tell me that the $5M stretch is for two more years, like I don't know it's for two more years. :lol Right this moment, the Spurs only have something like $24M on the books for '19-'20. That $5M carry for Parker would be pretty insignificant. Yes, it all counts. But I would gladly take that on vs. losing out on another player like Murray this year. I believe in the Spurs FO's ability to find a draft gem, and I think this is a great year to find a solid player down that far. Not a star, unless they just get lucky. But still, a player they will be glad to have on the roster - especially on a rookie scale contract.

Lol I knew you knew that but I am trying to make sure all the benefits behind my reasoning are known :lol

We also know that the number we see now for years beyond is going to change probably pretty drastically.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Reminds me of an old joke, "Oh, we've already established that you're a whore. Now we're just arguing over the price." Brooklyn is definitely I whore mode. I'm sure they will try to get as much as possible out of any salary dump they take on. If it was, say, Chandler Parsons' remaining 3 years/ $72M, or Joakim Noah's 3/$55M? Yeah, I think it would take more than the 29 pick in this draft. You think they can get more than a first round pick for Tony's single season. I can live with that. Difference of opinion, and not even a really big one.

They are only $12m away from the floor. Why not just sign a couple few FA?

And you are looking at it wrong. They don't have a first round pick next year and they have a ton of cap room for the foreseeable future.

I would rather take Parsons or Noah or someone similar and significant assets over TP who will not help much at all next season and a shitty pick. I don't see why they would settle for that quickly.

Sure as the Summer rolls along I could see them taking that if better things do not come along but the Spurs need to move quickly.

[SAGirl]

Yeah, but the Spurs aren't "desperate to offload long-term money". We're talking about 1 year of salary for Tony vs. a 3 year stretch. I want to ask you a serious question, then I'm putting this to bed for the night.

You keep talking how the Spurs will have huge flexibility next season - and it's true. But you act like the $5M from stretching Tony would screw up the next two seasons' cap space. So much so that you would give up a first round pick to get rid of all of Tony's salary this year. So here's the question:

Would you give up Dejounte Murray, right now, to flush Tony's contract to Brooklyn? (Don't say "It depends on whether that $5m let them sign a max player" - we don't know that either way.) The point is, if you would give up this year's first round pick, why not last year's first round pick?

If the Spurs stretch Tony, they clear $10M in cap space this season. If they trade him, they clear $15M. The extra $5M hit next year wouldn't hurt as badly as missing out on another Murray caliber player at a cheap salary.
In a more succinct fashion I said this elsewhere. Dumping Tony's deal will require sweeteners that Pop is not likely to want to part with. Then you add in the emotional aspect and the possibility that Tony may... "may" come back to play midseason and that if he could play Pop will want him. It's tough but I don't think they will dump him with sweeteners.

[GSH]

Off the top of my head I remember Philadelphia in the middle of their process taking up an injured Javale MCGee in a rather large contract from Denver ... in exchange for picks. I think if you search Philly in their process of looking for picks maybe you find examples....


It was a single draft pick, IIRC. A first rounder that was just about as low as the Spurs' pick this year. Maybe 26 or 27. And there was some insignificant player involved. An eastern Euro with no vowels in his last name.

That's actually a good example. McGee was injured and making around $12M, and it took a low first round pick to get Philly to take his contract.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It was a single draft pick, IIRC. A first rounder that was just about as low as the Spurs' pick this year. Maybe 26 or 27. And there was some insignificant player involved. An eastern Euro with no vowels in his last name.

That's actually a good example. McGee was injured and making around $12M, and it took a low first round pick to get Philly to take his contract.

The deal was made in February. It was a lottery protected pick.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/12347900/denver-nuggets-trade-javale-mcgee-philadelphia-76ers

Apparently the floor is not accounted until the end of the season.

I don't buy that the Spurs are going to be able to get someone to take the lowball deal by the time July rolls around and FA starts.

[Kindergarten Cop]

McGee was a $10m contract and it was a lottery protected pick. That is much much better than 29.

The 76ers were also in tank mode. The Nets don't have their pick next year so they have no reason to tank.

I'm pretty sure McGee had multiple years and around $23M, instead of the $10M you claim. The lottery protection was from Denver, which actually supports my claim that it was a later pick (after some quick research, I found that it was the 26th overall pick in the first round - which is really not that far off from number 29 in this year's draft) .

Regardless if they were "tanking" or not, teams still have to get to the salary floor - so they have to decide if they are going to greatly overpay marginal talent or gather assets and take on dead money.

Honestly though, it doesn't really matter though, because you're going to round/amend the information to support your stance - I was just trying to give you a little of what you were asking for, but I can see now why DPG was not too quick to offer up your research that you were asking for.

[cjw]

I would rather take Parsons or Noah or someone similar and significant assets over TP who will not help much at all next season and a shitty pick. I don't see why they would settle for that quickly.

Its all relative - what are significant assets? A top 5 pick (which neither of those teams can offer)? A stud young player (Porzingis - not happening)?

Length of the deal really matters too. You have to give up a lot less for an expiring like TP than someone with three more years like Noah and Parsons. And correct me if I'm wrong, neither of those players is expected to produce much of anything. At least pre-injury, Parker was key in a playoff series win.

For an albatross like Mozgov, the market was set. Take back a reasonable expiring to match salaries, and give up the equivalent of a late lottery pick - say 10th or so (what I equate Russell, who only has two more cheap years left, minus the late first LA got) to.

Parker would require a lot less to move.

[GSH]

Lol I knew you knew that but I am trying to make sure all the benefits behind my reasoning are known :lol

We also know that the number we see now for years beyond is going to change probably pretty drastically.


I expressed my deep belief in the Spurs FO's ability to draft a gem at 29, and you didn't take the bait. Damn. I thought I had that hook hidden.

I'm all out of basketball wisdom and lore for one evening. Maybe tomorrow we'll wake up and read about the Spurs in one of these big announcements.

[SAGirl]

What does not make sense (to me) with this logic is that Pau opting out doesn't help SA keep their own players. SA has Mills & Simmons rights. SA can go over cap to sign them. Why would Pau take a pay cut to save SA ownership money when they aren't improving their team?

I mean, him taking less money gives SA what money (if he's signing for 8M for example) to sign what level of PG?
I think what it accomplishes is what I understood from crv quote of J. Young: that they want to add a PG bc of their current situation with TP injured and are looking for ways of doing it without having to renounce guys (Mills for example).. with the intention of adding this FA to their current crew. Simmons is 50/50 bc he's looking for a payday and won't budge. Spurs may or may not meet his demand depending on others (said FA guard to be added demands for example).... that's what I took from the comment.

[GSH]

I don't buy that the Spurs are going to be able to get someone to take the lowball deal by the time July rolls around and FA starts.



They probably won't. More likely Tony will be here until he's 40.

Sleep well. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm pretty sure McGee had multiple years and around $23M, instead of the $10M you claim. The lottery protection was from Denver, which actually supports my claim that it was a later pick.

Regardless if they were "tanking" or not, teams still have to get to the salary floor - so they have to decide if they are going to greatly overpay marginal talent or gather assets and take on dead money.

Honestly though, it doesn't really matter though, because you're going to round/amend the information to support your stance - I was just trying to give you a little of what you were asking for, but I can see now why DPG was not too quick to offer up your research that you were asking for.

I meant AAV. I have to admit it is possible. But we have one example from 3 seasons ago. It's not like its a regular occurrence.

The Spurs would have to make this deal in less than two weeks. In contrast, that deal was made more than half way through the 2014-15 season.

I do appreciate the example though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They probably won't. More likely Tony will be here until he's 40.

Sleep well. :lol

I'm going to be up for awhile as I wait for stuff to assemble.

[DPG21920]

I expressed my deep belief in the Spurs FO's ability to draft a gem at 29, and you didn't take the bait. Damn. I thought I had that hook hidden.

I'm all out of basketball wisdom and lore for one evening. Maybe tomorrow we'll wake up and read about the Spurs in one of these big announcements.

Maybe, but I doubt it :lol.

I also don't like hearing that Jabari comment at all considering I dont think he makes stuff huff. He only seems to report what he hears and does not even promote it.

Makes no sense that Pau would take less money to save SA ownership money, but who knows. Very well may be the case that in order to keep Dedmon (since Mills/Simmons aren't a concern) that Pau takes less. Or to get some lower rent PG to fill in for TP while he's out with the 5.5M that *Pau opting out (and taking 8M per year) provides the spurs with no other moves/trades/stretching.

*arrived at 5.5M because Manu being renounced, Lee declining option & Pau opting out and taking 8M = 5.5M in cap space.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Its all relative - what are significant assets? A top 5 pick (which neither of those teams can offer)? A stud young player (Porzingis - not happening)?

Length of the deal really matters too. You have to give up a lot less for an expiring like TP than someone with three more years like Noah and Parsons. And correct me if I'm wrong, neither of those players is expected to produce much of anything. At least pre-injury, Parker was key in a playoff series win.

For an albatross like Mozgov, the market was set. Take back a reasonable expiring to match salaries, and give up the equivalent of a late lottery pick - say 10th or so (what I equate Russell, who only has two more cheap years left, minus the late first LA got) to.

Parker would require a lot less to move.

Why not try for another lottery pick then?

[DPG21920]

I think what it accomplishes is what I understood from crv quote of J. Young: that they want to add a PG bc of their current situation with TP injured and are looking for ways of doing it without having to renounce guys (Mills for example).. with the intention of adding this FA to their current crew. Simmons is 50/50 bc he's looking for a payday and won't budge. Spurs may or may not meet his demand depending on others (said FA guard to be added demands for example).... that's what I took from the comment.

The math doesn't add up (see my last post). They are trying to say SA convinced Pau to take less money so that they could keep the same team plus add a PG for 5.5M roughly?

Why would Pau take less money to open up 5.5M in cap space when he could have kept all his money and SA uses the MLE for the same thing?

It literally makes no sense to me at the moment with that logic.

[SAGirl]

The math doesn't add up (see my last post). They are trying to say SA convinced Pau to take less money so that they could keep the same team plus add a PG for 5.5M roughly?

Why would Pau take less money to open up 5.5M in cap space when he could have kept all his money and SA uses the MLE for the same thing?

It literally makes no sense to me at the moment with that logic.
I suppose we haven't seen all of it. Maybe someone is renounced (Mills? Doesn't make sense to retain him you get a FA PG, still have an injured but expected back TP, have Murray and Forbes)... I am in a tablet and it's late looking for charts of salaries and what not right now is a discomfort. But it does help a little. Not a lot though. It's very underwhelming.

[objective]

Then why would Spurs go this route? Gasol didn't just up and decide this on his own volition; he's clearly working in concert with them. With Jefferson, it was about ducking the tax. That's not a concern in this case. Clearly, they want to increase their flexibility now, which tells me they intend to upgrade PG and aren't enamored with '18 free agent class. Otherwise, they'd operate over cap, utilize Mills' Bird rights to re-sign him and have MLE at their disposal.

With cap holds and sequencing required, I'm confused as to whether they actually have the $25M in cap space being reported, but if they do, that possibly gets them in the game for Paul (1+1, opt out after 1st year, sign 4 year max; "only" $10M short of what Clippers can offer), probably would for Holiday and definitely would for Hill.

Why would they go that route?

They would do it if they're dumb enough to like Pau and pretend that he won't fall apart and be terrible.

They've done dumb deals below. The 07 summer was full of them.

Pau does it to lock in money after 17-18 and guard against injury. He knows the market for a 38 year old zero pick-and-roll defense antique will be crap. This way he can lock in near MLE​ money for the extra 2 years to get him to 40 if it's a 3/36 deal.

Factor in the injury risk all old players carry ... Pau did witness Parker explode his thigh just by jumping ... Pau can opt out and have the leverage on the Spurs who won't keep Dedmon and are too timid to just rely on Milutinov if he even comes over.

And the Spurs are just the team to buy into it. Pau's so smart, such a veteran winner ... Gotta bring him back like a 7 foot lazy Finley.

[dabom]

I don't feel I am coming at you. We were having a conversation about the Spurs options and you laid out a specious claim about teams taking on TP's salary for the 29th pick.

There is no reason beyond blind faith to believe what you are saying. Apparently me not giving you presumption is coming at you but you are the one calling me pigheaded.

Dude actually thinks we would get the 29th pick for Porker? :lol

I think he just overrates enrique too much. :lmao

[Chinook]

Why the fuck are people letting Fuzz troll them? Dude's using an archaic standard. No one's bought a first-rounder for cash in a while. The Spurs got more than $12 Million in cap space by dumping Jefferson. It cost a late-first. The Cavs dumped $20 fucking Million from Varejao for a first-rounder. The Nuggets dumped Javale McGee's $20-plus Million for a late first. This shit happens all the time. If it didn't, there's be no way Portland would be trying to dump their bad deals with picks, nor would teams like Brooklyn and LAL be winning to take on several million and give up rotation players for late-firsts.

[Mal]

Would team trading for Parker deals even pay him real money ? Isn't he covered by insurance or other shit ? Wouldn't it be 29th pick for cap space ?

[Chinook]

Would team trading for Parker deals even pay him real money ? Isn't he covered by insurance or other shit ? Wouldn't it be 29th pick for cap space ?

Provided Tony misses the full season, the insurance will pay 80 percent of his salary for 49/82 games. Very conveniently, that comes out to just under half his total salary. So no, the acquiring team would still have to pay several million bucks. But it would not by all that much. And if you add in teams being under the floor, Parker's deal would save a ton of money.

However, Parker's likely to be back before insurance can save more than a couple million.

[cutewizard]

hmmmmmmm

Porzy rulessssssssssss

[Mal]

Provided Tony misses the full season, the insurance will pay 80 percent of his salary for 49/82 games. Very conveniently, that comes out to just under half his total salary. So no, the acquiring team would still have to pay several million bucks. But it would not by all that much. And if you add in teams being under the floor, Parker's deal would save a ton of money.

However, Parker's likely to be back before insurance can save more than a couple million.

So by this count, 7,17 milion of his salary would be covered. If team is under the cap floor, they can't trade him late as expiring ? They have to keep him till the end, right ? So 29th pick would be worth 8,33 mil for Nets in real money, if Parker misses full year.

Floor is around 87 mil. Nets with added 15,5 mil would be nowhere close to that sum. But if they can add 15,5 mil in salaries for 8,33 mil and get the pick, why wouldn't they do that ? Same for Sacramento ?

[SAGirl]

Why the fuck are people letting Fuzz troll them? Dude's using an archaic standard. No one's bought a first-rounder for cash in a while. The Spurs got more than $12 Million in cap space by dumping Jefferson. It cost a late-first. The Cavs dumped $20 fucking Million from Varejao for a first-rounder. The Nuggets dumped Javale McGee's $20-plus Million for a late first. This shit happens all the time. If it didn't, there's be no way Portland would be trying to dump their bad deals with picks, nor would teams like Brooklyn and LAL be winning to take on several million and give up rotation players for late-firsts.
What's your real take on this Pau move Chinook.
Originally I was excited. I have wanted the Spurs to improve and add someone... this was a clear step in that direction.

Then all this Jabari Young talk about Spurs in reality wanting to keep their crew and add a PG but not CP3 (cant be much of an addition if they are any to keep most of their crew....) Maybe G.Hill?

My speculation: they mean to keep their young core. They don't want to have to include a pick or any of their youngsters: Murray, Anderson or Bertans... they want to keep them. Ideally they want to keep Simmons too and consider him a part of their younger up and comers (he is looking for the big ticket though and thus uncertain)... my guess is that in trying to improve their roster the would want to not trade a youngster...

Then hopefully they want to keep the old core they already have. thus they want Manu back, they'd like to not dump TOny... etc. May even want Pau back for his veteran presence too.

What can they realistically do with renouncing Mills ( he does want a payday and getting a FA PG while having TP, Murray and FoRbes signals his exit from SA. He has flamed out two postseasons in a row.) Add to that an assumption Pau is back in a 2 year deal again.

[tbdog]

My guess, SA GIRL, if and when Spurs miss out on CP, they will look for 2018. They will give Gasol a two year 20 mil dollar deal, with the final year being partially guaranteed of 6mil. I still think Hill will command close to 20mil, so unsure how that will work. We can only offer Simmons 8 mil. I think we offer that for 3 years? They will ask LMA and Green to opt out next year and sign longer deals for smaller coin. Parker contact goes off the books and depends how he plays, he will get a small one year contract and re-up Bertans, while they evaluate Anderson and Forbes.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why the fuck are people letting Fuzz troll them? Dude's using an archaic standard. No one's bought a first-rounder for cash in a while. The Spurs got more than $12 Million in cap space by dumping Jefferson. It cost a late-first. The Cavs dumped $20 fucking Million from Varejao for a first-rounder. The Nuggets dumped Javale McGee's $20-plus Million for a late first. This shit happens all the time. If it didn't, there's be no way Portland would be trying to dump their bad deals with picks, nor would teams like Brooklyn and LAL be winning to take on several million and give up rotation players for late-firsts.

It doesn't happen in the beginning of free agency.

All of those deals happened after halfway through the season. ie at the deadline and after they could not find a better deal.

And since when is a deal every other year "all the time." Sure when you are going to be paying anyway might as well get to the floor and get something but there is no reason to eat our dogshit immediately cause we want them to.

[Mal]

It doesn't happen in the beginning of free agency.

All of those deals happened after halfway through the season. ie at the deadline and after they could not find a better deal.

And since when is a deal every other year "all the time." Sure when you are going to be paying anyway might as well get to the floor and get something but there is no reason to eat our dogshit immediately cause we want them to.

Times are different. You either arm up or tank. Good luck with spending 100 mil and battle for playoff spot and not pissing off your fan base.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Times are different. You either arm up or tank. Good luck with spending 100 mil and battle for playoff spot and not pissing off your fan base.

The Spurs should try in earnest to dump TPs shitty contract in the next 10 days. If they cannot then they should stretch it and move on. Waiting for the trade deadline for some team under the floor to get desperate is a shitty idea.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

My speculation: they mean to keep their young core. They don't want to have to include a pick or any of their youngsters: Murray, Anderson or Bertans... they want to keep them. Ideally they want to keep Simmons too and consider him a part of their younger up and comers (he is looking for the big ticket though and thus uncertain)... my guess is that in trying to improve their roster the would want to not trade a youngster...


My guess is they're trying to open some cap space to go after a FA, but not Paul or another max one - someone cheaper. I don't believe for one second that they'd dump or stretch Parker and Gasol getting a new deal from cap space would kill any chance for Chris Paul, barring a massive discount. Think Patty is gone if they can land their target and Simmons would likely be back, unless he gets a ridiculous offer. Then Manu for the min or room if he doesn't retire.

Obviously they seem to like the 2017 market better than the 2018 one, which is understandable.

[Mal]

The Spurs should try in earnest to dump TPs shitty contract in the next 10 days. If they cannot then they should stretch it and move on. Waiting for the trade deadline for some team under the floor to get desperate is a shitty idea.

That`s my thought. If Parker is not moved, Gasol opting out is worthless.

[Chillen]

I know about loyalty but keeping Parker and waiting till January 2018 to see if he is a shade of his former self will not help this team. Got to trade the contract for a pick or something to get cap space. Parker can always finish his career as a Spur down the road. It's tough but Spurs need to get better and it's time to move on.

[Chinook]

What's your real take on this Pau move Chinook.
Originally I was excited. I have wanted the Spurs to improve and add someone... this was a clear step in that direction.

Then all this Jabari Young talk about Spurs in reality wanting to keep their crew and add a PG but not CP3 (cant be much of an addition if they are any to keep most of their crew....) Maybe G.Hill?

My speculation: they mean to keep their young core. They don't want to have to include a pick or any of their youngsters: Murray, Anderson or Bertans... they want to keep them. Ideally they want to keep Simmons too and consider him a part of their younger up and comers (he is looking for the big ticket though and thus uncertain)... my guess is that in trying to improve their roster the would want to not trade a youngster...

Then hopefully they want to keep the old core they already have. thus they want Manu back, they'd like to not dump TOny... etc. May even want Pau back for his veteran presence too.

What can they realistically do with renouncing Mills ( he does want a payday and getting a FA PG while having TP, Murray and FoRbes signals his exit from SA. He has flamed out two postseasons in a row.) Add to that an assumption Pau is back in a 2 year deal again.

I think Pau could have been traded. The Spurs supposedly engaged the Knicks in trade talks. Say for a second that the reports are true. Pau would be an interesting piece for Phil, given their history. I'm not necessarily saying that he'd be a big piece in a KP trade. But maybe he'd be there to use to trade up for the eighth pick. I don't believe Pau opted out to re-sign a big deal at the Spurs' behest. However, it's possible that the team can still be trying to make internal moves while also needing space. After all, if they want to bring Dedmon back, they'll need a salary slot to do so. The same is true if they want to give Simmons a flat deal larger than the MLE.

What people have to understand is that these opt-outs had to happen. The Spurs can give Pau his money back on a one-year if they never sign a big name. But Pau can't later choose to opt out if they need the space in two weeks. It was now or never.

[cutewizard]

I know about loyalty but keeping Parker and waiting till January 2018 to see if he is a shade of his former self will not help this team. Got to trade the contract for a pick or something to get cap space. Parker can always finish his career as a Spur down the road. It's tough but Spurs need to get better and it's time to move on.

:bobo

[Chinook]

It doesn't happen in the beginning of free agency.

All of those deals happened after halfway through the season. ie at the deadline and after they could not find a better deal.

And since when is a deal every other year "all the time." Sure when you are going to be paying anyway might as well get to the floor and get something but there is no reason to eat our dogshit immediately cause we want them to.

Almost all trades happen around the deadline. Very few deals involving vet players happen during the draft. You're correct that teams aren't usually eager to take on salary in the off-season, but that's often because they've already done so at the deadline.

The important thing here is that late-firsts are more valuable than they have ever been. That's why the Spurs could turn 29 or whatever it was in 2011 into shedding a season of Jefferson. That's why the Nets and Lakers had to take on extra salary and give up a rotation player for their late picks. That's why Houston got the Lakers to pay Lin $15 Million a couple of summers ago to eat Lin's deal. The Cavs and Warriors both dropped huge coin on second-rounders, with Cleveland giving up $3 Million for the 54th slot.

Your evaluation scale is just way off if you think Parker would need more than $29 Million to move, especially considering that he will have value again before the deadline or will have half his salary covered by insurance.

[objective]

the other thing about Parker is that if he's traded to a bad team, he becomes a buyout candidate if he comes back in Jan-Feb and wants to go to a contender to try and prove himself or get revenge. So the team that initially trades for him might not even be on the hook for the full $ even if insurance picks up zero.

[Yuixafun]

Stop it with all these useless cap space gymnastics. If the Spurs want to get Paul, the best thing they can do is to trade Aldridge. In fact, even if they don't get Paul the best thing they can do is to trade Aldridge, tbh.

If you land Paul... then keeping Aldridge is a must.

He's spent 2 years transforming into a defensive anchor lol...

And being the third option would ease up the pressure on his game, and Chris Paul is a magician at probing and getting ppl looks.

The synergy between Kl La and Cp is a dazzling possibility.

And then with Danny Green being able to just focus on spot up shooting and defense, the same with Pau Gasol, and even Bertans for a mobile stretch big that plays off the ball.

Paul really would enhance everything.

Plus if nothing is there, he can go get his own buckets.

And then you factor in the, grizzled vet angle dying to win a ring...

Barring injury I see us destroying the Warriors.

We would be able to control tempo, play elite defense, bomb from the outside, iso to death, or just attack the weakness with power.

Simmons is really not necessary... Kyle Anderson could fill the role but differently.

Keep Mills tho. He gets to go back to being a microwave, with stronger Pg skills than before.

[cutewizard]

If you land Paul... then keeping Aldridge is a must.

He's spent 2 years transforming into a defensive anchor lol...

And being the third option would ease up the pressure on his game, and Chris Paul is a magician at probing and getting ppl looks.

The synergy between Kl La and Cp is a dazzling possibility.

And then with Danny Green being able to just focus on spot up shooting and defense, the same with Pau Gasol, and even Bertans for a mobile stretch big that plays off the ball.

Paul really would enhance everything.

Plus if nothing is there, he can go get his own buckets.

And then you factor in the, grizzled vet angle dying to win a ring...

Barring injury I see us destroying the Warriors.

We would be able to control tempo, play elite defense, bomb from the outside, iso to death, or just attack the weakness with power.

Simmons is really not necessary... Kyle Anderson could fill the role but differently.

Keep Mills tho. He gets to go to go back ro being a microwave, with stronger Pg skills than before.

-----------------------------------

:bobo

[GSH]

I said it above - it's always a lot more likely that the Spurs are doing something plain vanilla. The ugly thing is that the Spurs probably have to clear some space just to do that.


And just for the record, Fuzzy, I wasn't blowing you a good night kiss. I was saying that the thought of Tony being here till he's 40 ought to keep you up at night.


They probably won't. More likely Tony will be here until he's 40.
Sleep well. :lol

I'm going to be up for awhile as I wait for stuff to assemble.

[DAF86]

I said it above - it's always a lot more likely that the Spurs are doing something plain vanilla. The ugly thing is that the Spurs probably have to clear some space just to do that.


And just for the record, Fuzzy, I wasn't blowing you a good night kiss. I was saying that the thought of Tony being here till he's 40 ought to keep you up at night.

Yeah, they are probably making room just to resign Mills, Simmons and Dedmon. :lol :bang

[DPG21920]

I just don't see how, with things currently constructed the "plan" is for Pau to take less money to re-sign their own team. Again, Pau could have kept all his money and the Spurs had the MLE and been in the same exact spot (if we are assuming Pau is getting re-signed).

I think, like Chinook said, that might end up happening, but that is because there was a date for Pau to decline option and no turning back if he did not. They have bigger plans, but it's whether or not they actually work out. Much like how with Duncan, there was no "set" number many of the times. It was "how much do you need based on what happens"

[tmtcsc]

I guess Woj and others are just dummies and since they didn't cite, on command any examples, it means what they said is false:

http://thehoopdoctors.com/2017/05/brooklyn-nets-willing-to-absorb-bad-contracts-via-trade-for-draft-picks-and-prospects/

I'm not sure why you wrote that post (I haven't read through the entire thread) ...but this is the article I thought about when I said Spurs could/would salary dump Parker and Green.

[GSH]

I just don't see how, with things currently constructed the "plan" is for Pau to take less money to re-sign their own team. Again, Pau could have kept all his money and the Spurs had the MLE and been in the same exact spot (if we are assuming Pau is getting re-signed).

I think, like Chinook said, that might end up happening, but that is because there was a date for Pau to decline option and no turning back if he did not. They have bigger plans, but it's whether or not they actually work out. Much like how with Duncan, there was no "set" number many of the times. It was "how much do you need based on what happens"


Heh. It doesn't make sense because we all want something big to happen. How may seasons have we pulled up our chairs, waited for 4th of July fireworks, and they hand out sparklers?

Only 4 teams' fans got to the conference finals this year, and we were one of them. That's pretty damned good, I guess. They'll probably find a way to get there again this year, or close, by holding steady. We speculate every year about big deals. And mostly it's summer re-runs.

[sasaint]

I think Pau could have been traded. The Spurs supposedly engaged the Knicks in trade talks. Say for a second that the reports are true. Pau would be an interesting piece for Phil, given their history. I'm not necessarily saying that he'd be a big piece in a KP trade. But maybe he'd be there to use to trade up for the eighth pick. I don't believe Pau opted out to re-sign a big deal at the Spurs' behest. However, it's possible that the team can still be trying to make internal moves while also needing space. After all, if they want to bring Dedmon back, they'll need a salary slot to do so. The same is true if they want to give Simmons a flat deal larger than the MLE.

What people have to understand is that these opt-outs had to happen. The Spurs can give Pau his money back on a one-year if they never sign a big name. But Pau can't later choose to opt out if they need the space in two weeks. It was now or never.

All excellent points except Pop ain't bringing Deadman back.

[Dex]

I know about loyalty but keeping Parker and waiting till January 2018 to see if he is a shade of his former self will not help this team. Got to trade the contract for a pick or something to get cap space. Parker can always finish his career as a Spur down the road. It's tough but Spurs need to get better and it's time to move on.

It's not unprecedented. They did it with Sean Elliott and Brent Barry, both fan favorites who ended up coming back to team. They also shipped championship cornerstone Bruce Bowen to basketball purgatory (aka Milwaukee), basically sending him to an early retirement. As we are all aware, two of those three names are now hanging in the rafters.

[tmtcsc]

I think Pau could have been traded. The Spurs supposedly engaged the Knicks in trade talks. Say for a second that the reports are true. Pau would be an interesting piece for Phil, given their history. I'm not necessarily saying that he'd be a big piece in a KP trade. But maybe he'd be there to use to trade up for the eighth pick. I don't believe Pau opted out to re-sign a big deal at the Spurs' behest. However, it's possible that the team can still be trying to make internal moves while also needing space. After all, if they want to bring Dedmon back, they'll need a salary slot to do so. The same is true if they want to give Simmons a flat deal larger than the MLE.

What people have to understand is that these opt-outs had to happen. The Spurs can give Pau his money back on a one-year if they never sign a big name. But Pau can't later choose to opt out if they need the space in two weeks. It was now or never.

I was told that their was language in Pau's contract that made it difficult for him to be traded. I have no idea if it was a trade-kicker payment or something else.

[rjv]

Right. I can't see the Spurs trading Tony though, if only because he's a franchise icon. All signs point to the Spurs salary dumping Danny Green as their next big move. green would be the only route i would envision as well. i just don't see the spurs dumping parker, especially under the current circumstances.

[rjv]

The Spurs FO didn't ask Pau to opt out so they could go after George Hill. They are most definitely going to make a pitch to CP3, and it's clear they have a plan in place to make a compelling offer.

Whether they succeed is a different story. But make no mistake, this was about lining things up to make a run at the best PG on the market...nothing short of it. i think the spurs FO will give what they can to make themselves at least have a chance at getting CP3 with the expectation that this likely won't happen. and from there, i think they have a supplemental plan that they feel is the most likely one to pan out. again though, it's a dynamic situation that can change based on events that the spurs FO has no control over. it's trying to manage chaos as best as you can.

[Capt Bringdown]

Flush this turd from the turdbowl. His game has succumbed to father time, there's no use in trying to dodge that doubt.

[sasaint]

My guess is they're trying to open some cap space to go after a FA, but not Paul or another max one - someone cheaper. I don't believe for one second that they'd dump or stretch Parker and Gasol getting a new deal from cap space would kill any chance for Chris Paul, barring a massive discount. Think Patty is gone if they can land their target and Simmons would likely be back, unless he gets a ridiculous offer. Then Manu for the min or room if he doesn't retire.

Obviously they seem to like the 2017 market better than the 2018 one, which is understandable.

I agree. They will flirt with Paul. But the goal is to re-sign GHill - especially now that it looks like some teams in need of PGs may have found their answer (BKY and Philly).

[sasaint]

It's not unprecedented. They did it with Sean Elliott and Brent Barry, both fan favorites who ended up coming back to team. They also shipped championship cornerstone Bruce Bowen to basketball purgatory (aka Milwaukee), basically sending him to an early retirement. As we are all aware, two of those three names are now hanging in the rafters.

As I observe the Spurs' constellation, none of those guys shines as brightly as Tony. Sean and Bowen shine fairly brightly but Brent is fairly dim compared to Tony.

[DPG21920]

Heh. It doesn't make sense because we all want something big to happen. How may seasons have we pulled up our chairs, waited for 4th of July fireworks, and they hand out sparklers?

Only 4 teams' fans got to the conference finals this year, and we were one of them. That's pretty damned good, I guess. They'll probably find a way to get there again this year, or close, by holding steady. We speculate every year about big deals. And mostly it's summer re-runs.

Take out any wishes and evaluate simply the math on keeping the same teams. Explain just using that assumption how it helps Pau to opt out.

[SAGirl]

I think Pau could have been traded. The Spurs supposedly engaged the Knicks in trade talks. Say for a second that the reports are true. Pau would be an interesting piece for Phil, given their history. I'm not necessarily saying that he'd be a big piece in a KP trade. But maybe he'd be there to use to trade up for the eighth pick. I don't believe Pau opted out to re-sign a big deal at the Spurs' behest. However, it's possible that the team can still be trying to make internal moves while also needing space. After all, if they want to bring Dedmon back, they'll need a salary slot to do so. The same is true if they want to give Simmons a flat deal larger than the MLE.

What people have to understand is that these opt-outs had to happen. The Spurs can give Pau his money back on a one-year if they never sign a big name. But Pau can't later choose to opt out if they need the space in two weeks. It was now or never.
Good point.
Thanks for sharing.
I take it they have several plans in motion including the toughest: convincing CP3.
If/when that fails they move down the list to plan B. Which may be the most likely, the one J.Young cited.

[Dex]

As I observe the Spurs' constellation, none of those guys shines as brightly as Tony. Sean and Bowen shine fairly brightly but Brent is fairly dim compared to Tony.

True, but Sean, Bowen, and Barry were actually healthy and they still got sent out. Tony is on the wrong side of 35, fresh off a possibly career ending injury, and won't be available for half the season when the Spurs are in win-now mode (or at least should be to appease Kawhi).

I agree that the Spurs will probably stay loyal to Parker in the long run, but I also don't think that the FO isn't at least considering the options.

[MaNu4Tres]

You guys are forgetting the fact that Spurs let Avery go as well. Avery wanted to finish his career as a Spur but Spurs didn't want to pay Avery what he wanted to be paid, so he left and signed in Denver.

Not to mention, Pop was willing to let David walk if C-Webb had committed to SA in summer of 01'. Chris Webber was close to becoming a Spur that summer.

[kaji157]

Cp3 will no be the only option at PG, given the huge amount of PG's that will be taken in the top 20 of the draft i would not be surprised if other teams try to move their starting PG's so that they can grow their younger prospects.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

You guys are forgetting the fact that Spurs let Avery go as well. Avery wanted to finish his career as a Spur but Spurs didn't want to pay Avery what he wanted to be paid, so he left and signed in Denver.

Not to mention, Pop was willing to let David walk if C-Webb had committed to SA in summer of 01'. Chris Webber was close to becoming a Spur that summer.

Wasn't D-Rob also going to be traded to Vancouver at one point?

[Drom John]

2016-2017
Win Shares

1. James Harden • HOU 15.0
2. Rudy Gobert • UTA 14.3
3. Jimmy Butler • CHI 13.8
4. Kawhi Leonard • SAS 13.6
5. Russell Westbrook • OKC 13.1
6. LeBron James • CLE 12.9
7. Karl-Anthony Towns • MIN 12.7
8. Stephen Curry • GSW 12.6
9. Isaiah Thomas • BOS 12.6
10. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL 12.4
11. Kevin Durant • GSW 12.0
12. DeAndre Jordan • LAC 11.8
13. Anthony Davis • NOP 11.0
14. Chris Paul • LAC 10.6
15. Gordon Hayward • UTA 10.4
16. Damian Lillard • POR 10.3
17. Kyle Lowry • TOR 10.1
18. Mike Conley • MEM 10.0
19. Nikola Jokic • DEN 9.7
20. Hassan Whiteside • MIA 9.5

2016-2017 Playoff
Win Shares

4.3 LeBron James
3.4 Stephen Curry
3.1 Kevin Durant
2.8 Kawhi Leonard
2.4 Draymond Green
2.1 Al Horford, Kevin Love
2.0 Kyrie Irving
1.8 Tristan Thompson
1.5 Otto Porter
1.1 John Wall
1.3 Jae Crowder, James Harden, Chris Paul

Passes the eye test.

I speculate that Gasol's opting out came with an agreed minimum contract based on Plan A. If Plan B or lower, then Gasol's contract gets bigger.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Almost all trades happen around the deadline. Very few deals involving vet players happen during the draft. You're correct that teams aren't usually eager to take on salary in the off-season, but that's often because they've already done so at the deadline.

The important thing here is that late-firsts are more valuable than they have ever been. That's why the Spurs could turn 29 or whatever it was in 2011 into shedding a season of Jefferson. That's why the Nets and Lakers had to take on extra salary and give up a rotation player for their late picks. That's why Houston got the Lakers to pay Lin $15 Million a couple of summers ago to eat Lin's deal. The Cavs and Warriors both dropped huge coin on second-rounders, with Cleveland giving up $3 Million for the 54th slot.

Your evaluation scale is just way off if you think Parker would need more than $29 Million to move, especially considering that he will have value again before the deadline or will have half his salary covered by insurance.

What glorious pedantic pseudo-expertise you have, my dear. You need to be careful or you are going to to get dizzy talking around the issue.

Right now cap space is more valuable than at any time of the year as in the next 3 weeks the lions share of quality free agents will be signed. We are talking about clearing space for making a run at free agents after all. Do try and keep up.

All of your examples are teams desperate to reach the floor and get something for it and taking what they can get at the deadline. Sure first rounders are worth more. . . . in February when teams choose that or getting no return on spending to the floor at all.

OTOH, we are talking about now when those same teams know that teams like the Spurs really really want to clear space. The trade deadline is 9 months from now.

There is a way that the Spurs can get over $35m in space and retain the QOs to Patty and Simmons by simply stretching TPs shitty contract. Would getting some team to eat it for 29 so we have $40+m be better? Sure and they should try to do so but expecting that a team is going to eat our shit before the deadline when they have no choice is a pipe dream.

Is it possible? Sure. Likely? Not.

[Chinook]

What glorious pedantic pseudo-expertise ... [blah blah blah]

:rolleyes Damn it, Fuzz, you just can't talk to people, can you?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:rolleyes Damn it, Fuzz, you just can't talk to people, can you?

You should look at how you wrote to me. And you did drop a bunch of irrelevant points to try and appear knowledgeable. It's pretty common frankly.

Now you can make it about me if you like but we went through this before a couple of years ago with the Aldridge speculation that you kept on telling me I was stupid to think it possible. I did just guess on the Shitter contract though because the salaries lined up so nicely.

Your examples still are all from the deadline and we aren't at the deadline. You going to address it or you just going to whine because I am not nice? On this board.

[tonight...you]

You should look at how you wrote to me. And you did drop a bunch of irrelevant points to try and appear knowledgeable. It's pretty common frankly.

Now you can make it about me if you like but we went through this before a couple of years ago with the Aldridge speculation that you kept on telling me I was stupid to think it possible. I did just guess on the Shitter contract though because the salaries lined up so nicely.

Your examples still are all from the deadline and we aren't at the deadline. You going to address it or you just going to whine because I am not nice? On this board.
Ha ha ha! I like both you guys and like it even more when you two quibble. Keep it going!
DPG also...

[Chinook]

You should look at how you wrote to me. And you did drop a bunch of irrelevant points to try and appear knowledgeable. It's pretty common frankly.

Now you can make it about me if you like but we went through this before a couple of years ago with the Aldridge speculation that you kept on telling me I was stupid to think it possible. I did just guess on the Shitter contract though because the salaries lined up so nicely.

Your examples still are all from the deadline and we aren't at the deadline. You going to address it or you just going to whine because I am not nice? On this board.

It's more that you're a quivering vagina than anything else. You can't go more than two posts with someone you disagree with before you go all Fuzzy with stupid shit like "You're disseminating" "You're being pedantic." It's just shitty and silly, and it's just terrible to talk to you.

You didn't have a good point. First-rounders have more value than they used to. Even if they didn't, the increased cap (almost double since the last time a first was sold for cash), would still lead to appreciation. The Lin trade wasn't about the salary floor for any team. It was about the pick. Giving up a rotation player AND eating $8-10 Million was about the pick. Back in the day, you didn't used to have to give up that much to grab a late-first. Now you do.

Just to give you some advice, saying, "You were wrong in a prediction years ago" (disregarding that you're lying out of your ass), "so that means you can't look at past events and say what happened" is about the worst use of an ad hominem I've ever heard.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's more that you're a quivering vagina than anything else. You can't go more than two posts with someone you disagree with before you go all Fuzzy with stupid shit like "You're disseminating" "You're being pedantic." It's just shitty and silly, and it's just terrible to talk to you.

You didn't have a good point. First-rounders have more value than they used to. Even if they didn't, the increased cap (almost double since the last time a first was sold for cash), would still lead to appreciation. The Lin trade wasn't about the salary floor for any team. It was about the pick. Giving up a rotation player AND eating $8-10 Million was about the pick. Back in the day, you didn't used to have to give up that much to grab a late-first. Now you do.

Just to give you some advice, saying, "You were wrong in a prediction years ago" (disregarding that you're lying out of your ass), "so that means you can't look at past events and say what happened" is about the worst use of an ad hominem I've ever heard.

:wow :lmao

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's more that you're a quivering vagina than anything else. You can't go more than two posts with someone you disagree with before you go all Fuzzy with stupid shit like "You're disseminating" "You're being pedantic." It's just shitty and silly, and it's just terrible to talk to you.

You didn't have a good point. First-rounders have more value than they used to. Even if they didn't, the increased cap (almost double since the last time a first was sold for cash), would still lead to appreciation. The Lin trade wasn't about the salary floor for any team. It was about the pick. Giving up a rotation player AND eating $8-10 Million was about the pick. Back in the day, you didn't used to have to give up that much to grab a late-first. Now you do.

Just to give you some advice, saying, "You were wrong in a prediction years ago" (disregarding that you're lying out of your ass), "so that means you can't look at past events and say what happened" is about the worst use of an ad hominem I've ever heard.

So you're not going to address that we are not at the deadline and the current value of cap space. And you want to call me a "vagina." Introspection leads to irony in this case so I can see why you would avoid it.

As for Lin:

1) This is new as he was not one of your previous 3 examples.
2) The Lakers started Lin initially that year and he signed a $12m AAV when he left. Taking on Lin was more than just eating salary as he had value as a player. You can argue they misevaluated but they started him those first 20 games.
3) The Lakers were only on the hook for half of that contract value.
4) teams are not going to expect Parker coming off a serious knee injury is going to contribute next season.
5) It was a first and second to make the deal and the first was better than 29.

You cannot look at the Lin deal and expect a team to take on a player that will not help at all, will take up twice as much cap space, and return a lesser haul.

People can decide for themselves but we had eerily similar exchanges 2 years ago about acquiring Aldridge where you made a bunch of false equivalencies and based most of your argument on insulting me. You were wrong then. Overall your value as a predictive analyst is shit.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:wow :lmao

Sick burn right. . . . :rolleyes

[DPG21920]

The fact Fuzzy does not realize how he comes off is incredible.

Especially towards posters that have been here for years and proven to have a way more intimate knowledge of the CBA than him

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The fact Fuzzy does not realize how he comes off is incredible.

Especially towards posters that have been here for years and proven to have a way more intimate knowledge of the CBA than him

What I find amusing is how much of a tizzy i get you fools into. What your too dim to fathom is I don't care how I "come across" to you.

And that second part is exactly the same kind of horseshit I heard two years ago when I said it would be easy to free up room to make a run at Aldridge.

You have no credibility "grit and grind" outside of your circle jerk.

[DPG21920]

The good news (whether by luck or design) is this is shaping up to be a great year for teams looking to add a PG in free agency.

Many of the bad teams with money are trading for lottery level PGs and taking themselves out of the FA pool. On top of that there is a solid enough crop of apparently available PGs: CP, Lowry, Jrue, Bev, Hill, etc.

Also GS has everyone scrambling and teams are shaking things up

[DPG21920]

What I find amusing is how much of a tizzy i get you fools into.

And that second part is exactly the same kind of horseshit I heard two years ago when I said it would be easy to free up room to make a run at Aldridge.

You have no credibility "grit and grind" outside of your circle jerk.

Why are you acting like you were some lone wolf on the LMA thing :lol? Many of us even called the Tiago to ATL trade as a means to get space.

You aren't as smart as you think you are - don't have a good understanding of the CBA (although to your credit you're getting better and try to look up rules).

How about instead of being annoying you just be a bit nicer to interact with?

[Chinook]

Why are you acting like you were some lone wolf on the LMA thing :lol? Many of us even called the Tiago to ATL trade as a means to get space.

You aren't as smart as you think you are - don't have a good understanding of the CBA (although to your credit you're getting better and try to look up rules).

How about instead of being annoying you just be a bit nicer to interact with?

It's just hilarious that he thinks bragging about how easy it would be to make salary dump in 2015 means that it would be hard to do so in 2017. Nobody thought Splitter would be hard to dump. Dudes were talking him up for lottery picks on other boards. If anything, people might have not wanted to dump him over Diaw.

[dabom]

Fuzzy going in. :lol

Other guys are just taking it. :lmao

[DPG21920]

Also saying I have no credibility (whatever that means) when I just sh*t on your obtuse a** with the trading a pick to shed salaries

:lmao at your fake ego walk back "well thanks for the examples guys. I have to admit that even though the examples don't show that you can trade 15M specifically on the dot specifically for the 29th pick I have to admit it's possible :lol

[dabom]

Someone actually thinks we get a 29th pick for porker. :lol

[DPG21920]

Someone actually thinks we get a 29th pick for porker. :lol

Ok / I saw you type this before but assumed it was a mistake. But now you've typed it twice :lol. People are saying GIVING the 29th pick would be enough to dump TP to a team like BKY.

[dabom]

Ok / I saw you type this before but assumed it was a mistake. But now you've typed it twice :lol. People are saying GIVING the 29th pick would be enough to dump TP to a team like BKY.

Now that seems reasonable, but too high of a pick. Porkers one year deal is 16mil. Not that high. We'd actually be losing that trade.

[Chinook]

Someone actually thinks we get a 29th pick for porker. :lol

Bro, you cereal?

[Chinook]

Now that seems reasonable, but too high of a pick. Porkers one year deal is 16mil. Not that high. We'd actually be losing that trade.

Congrats on catching up to what we've been saying this whole time. :toast

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why are you acting like you were some lone wolf on the LMA thing :lol? Many of us even called the Tiago to ATL trade as a means to get space.

You aren't as smart as you think you are - don't have a good understanding of the CBA (although to your credit you're getting better and try to look up rules).

How about instead of being annoying you just be a bit nicer to interact with?

:cry: Fuzzy is not as smart as he thinks he is. :cry

Blow me, grit and grind.

No shit, dim, that others were on the same page as me. I never claimed that I was the only one. I was talking about Chinook and how wrong he was. Both Harlem and he were all over me then telling me that same line.

It's not like you even had a horse in that race either but it does not surprise me that you would try and take credit for something you had nothing to do with.

And how about you try not being a whiny ****? I find that and your penchant for trying to play both sides and revisionist history to be annoying but I just make fun of you for it. You can do what you like.

[dabom]

Congrats on catching up to what we've been saying this whole time. :toast

:tu

[tholdren]

The fact Fuzzy does not realize how he comes off is incredible.

Especially towards posters that have been here for years and proven to have a way more intimate knowledge of the CBA than him

Same way chinook is tbh.

[DPG21920]

Now that seems reasonable, but too high of a pick. Porkers one year deal is 16mil. Not that high. We'd actually be losing that trade.

Wait :lol. You claim Fuzzy is killing people then disagree with what his actual basketball take was ?!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Also saying I have no credibility (whatever that means) when I just sh*t on your obtuse a** with the trading a pick to shed salaries

:lmao at your fake ego walk back "well thanks for the examples guys. I have to admit that even though the examples don't show that you can trade 15M specifically on the dot specifically for the 29th pick I have to admit it's possible :lol

You've done nothing but claim to be some authority, dim. There have been several including Chinook that have actually made arguments but you have not.

You have not shown shit.

Most of the examples have been deadline deals that don't apply.

Lin actually is a good precedent but he was $8.3m in cap space, was a rotation player, and cost a first and as second. Twice as much cap space it bears to reason would cost twice as much. And that actually is inline with a first being worth about $5m which is what we had initially if you inflate the $3m correspondingly to the cap.

[DPG21920]

Same way chinook is tbh.

But Chinook is actually knowledgeable

[DPG21920]

Still with this Fuzzy :lmao

Even your only friend just turned on you

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Congrats on catching up to what we've been saying this whole time. :toast

He is shitting on TP tongue in cheek, your obtuseness.

You remind me of Donald Trump.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Still with this Fuzzy :lmao

Even your only friend just turned on you

Your dumbass is really here to get friends?

I play the heel, dumbfuck. You do know what that is right?

[Chinook]

He is shitting on TP tongue in cheek, your obtuseness.

You remind me of Donald Trump.

He was agreeing with you when he thought you had a reasonable point "That no team would trade 29 to get TP." Once he realized it was about a dump, he switched sides. Of course he hates TP. That's his thing. But even through that hate, he argued that trading a first to dump him would be more than sufficient.

You remind me of the people who let Trump win.

[coachmac87]

He is shitting on TP tongue in cheek, your obtuseness.

You remind me of Donald Trump.

Trump is a winner :lmao

[Chinook]

Trump is a winner :lmao

Don't do us like that, Coach. :depressed

[dabom]

Wait :lol. You claim Fuzzy is killing people then disagree with what his actual basketball take was ?!

I was agreeing to something else. I thought you said the 29th pick for porker. :lol

[coachmac87]

Don't do us like that, Coach. :depressed


I agree with you...it's people like him that let Trump win :lmao

[dabom]

I agree with you...it's people like him that let Trump win :lmao

No its not. Everyone gets blamed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He was agreeing with you when he thought you had a reasonable point "That no team would trade 29 to get TP." Once he realized it was about a dump, he switched sides. Of course he hates TP. That's his thing. But even through that hate, he argued that trading a first to dump him would be more than sufficient.

You remind me of the people who let Trump win.

You think he's serious! :rollin

[dabom]

I was laughing that people get "upset" that fuzzy using "big" words and ya get mad and start crying like little bitches.

Fuzzy definitely making an impression on these cucks. :lmao

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So we have established a recent precedent in Jeremy Lin.

Dumping $8.3m in salary cost the Rockets a rotation player, and a first and a second.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I was laughing that people get "upset" that fuzzy using "big" words and ya get mad and start crying like little bitches.

Fuzzy definitely making an impression on these cucks. :lmao

:bobo

[DPG21920]

A guy that admits he comes to a message board online to interact with people just to be annoying and "play the heel" seems to think I'm the weirdo for making friends ?

:lol

[dabom]

:bobo
:claw

[Brazil]

:lol Fuzzy tbh...

[cd98]

All this talk and the Spurs probably aren't dumping Parker.

[Hoops Czar]

I was laughing that people get "upset" that fuzzy using "big" words and ya get mad and start crying like little bitches.

Fuzzy definitely making an impression on these cucks. :lmao

You should be laughing because every time Fuzzy uses a big word, you have to run to Google dictionary to look up its meaning so you know how to respond to his post. :lol

[SAGirl]

Ha ha ha! I like both you guys and like it even more when you two quibble. Keep it going!
DPG also...
I don't know.... Fuzzy seems to just be a contrarian, and doesn't really write anything that contributes to the conversation... kind of a waste of time.

[dabom]

You should be laughing because every time Fuzzy uses a big word, you have to run to Google dictionary to look up its meaning so you know how to respond to his post. :lol

Yes, I need to google the meaning of big words. :lol

[Hoops Czar]

I don't know.... Fuzzy seems to just be a contrarian, and doesn't really write anything that contributes to the conversation... kind of a waste of time.

Careful using those "big" word, you're going to blow dabom's mind.

[dabom]

I don't know.... @sagirl seems to just be a contrarian, and doesn't really write anything that contributes to the conversation... kind of a waste of time.

[Hoops Czar]

Yes, I need to google the meaning of big words. :lol

:lol

[coachmac87]

I don't know.... Fuzzy seems to just be a contrarian, and doesn't really write anything that contributes to the conversation... kind of a waste of time.

Shots fired

[dabom]

I don't think sagirl should be talking about people that contribute, seeing as how she stans fathead. She really a troll. :lol

[coachmac87]

"Hi, I'm FuzzyLumpkins and I'm a gargantuan asshole"

[dabom]

Let me put this bluntly, if sagirl is agreeing to your cause, you're probably wrong. :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't know.... Fuzzy seems to just be a contrarian, and doesn't really write anything that contributes to the conversation... kind of a waste of time.

:lmao:lmao Jesus Christ, tbh..

[SAGirl]

All this talk and the Spurs probably aren't dumping Parker.
Lol it isn't even the topic of the thread...
I was asking what Spurs could do with mostly standing pat and some cap Pau opened up by opting out. Guys said nothing really unless Spurs dump TP.

1. I don't think Pop wants to dump him to begin with... they expect him back in some shape or form.
2. Even less, Pop is not going to consider attaching sweeteners .... they don't want to part with a pick to dump a player they like
3. The draconian measures are only in place only for CP3, anyone else and they will be conservative and sacrifice maybe Simmons bc he's looking for big deal... (and frankly who knows what he will get, the market for PG is saturated but wings are in demand and in the recent two off-seasons wings who can defend and have some offensive game have gotten massive overpayments -- Evan Turner, C.Parsons, H.Barnes, Kent Bazemore, Demarre Carroll, etc all of these role players)...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A guy that admits he comes to a message board online to interact with people just to be annoying and "play the heel" seems to think I'm the weirdo for making friends ?

:lol

Last time I checked this is Spurs Talk where every other account is an alt. I didn't make the game. I just play it. When I want civil Spurs discourse I got to reddit.

And this schtick is a means to an end. People that actually do know what they are talking about put me straight with the truth. I give chinook a lot of shit but at least he has the balls to engage me intellectually.

It certainly plays on people's insecurities. You end up with people that get tied up into moral relativism like I see here with you. You appealing to your supposed authority over and again is hilarious. The people lining up to take pot shots and avoid the debate are not accomplishing what they hope.

At the end of the day though I cajoled all kinds of examples of salary dumps in modern history and now we have a good idea collectively what the market is like. That is what I am here for.

I am comfortable now that if we want to dump TP's shitty contract we won't be able to do it for our first rounder until next Spring. It's not happening in the next 10 days.

Lin is actually an excellent baseline and we don't meet that cost in the discussion to this point. Giving up both picks and Kyle Anderson is equivalent to what netter a $8.3m dump.

[TD 21]

Why would they go that route?

They would do it if they're dumb enough to like Pau and pretend that he won't fall apart and be terrible.

They've done dumb deals below. The 07 summer was full of them.

Pau does it to lock in money after 17-18 and guard against injury. He knows the market for a 38 year old zero pick-and-roll defense antique will be crap. This way he can lock in near MLE​ money for the extra 2 years to get him to 40 if it's a 3/36 deal.

Factor in the injury risk all old players carry ... Pau did witness Parker explode his thigh just by jumping ... Pau can opt out and have the leverage on the Spurs who won't keep Dedmon and are too timid to just rely on Milutinov if he even comes over.

And the Spurs are just the team to buy into it. Pau's so smart, such a veteran winner ... Gotta bring him back like a 7 foot lazy Finley.

I don't think this is about Gasol or Spurs affinity for him, so much as it is upgrading at PG. Paul might still be a stretch, but Hill isn't.

If they land one of them, it'll be well worth is to have Gasol for an extra season or two, at lesser money. It might not even change anything in that regard, because they might have eventually re-signed him for 1-2 years even had he opted in.

He has no leverage on Spurs. Market for C's is oversaturated. Aldridge can play it more and they'd be fine with any of Dedmon, Baynes or Reed starting, with Splitter and possibly 29 as backups.

[SAGirl]

Careful using those "big" word, you're going to blow dabom's mind.
Dabom repertoire is emoticons.... basically he will only understand if I post this:
:ihit:lol

[tonight...you]

Same way chinook is tbh.
Not going to argue... yet I still like the person.

[tonight...you]

I don't know.... Fuzzy seems to just be a contrarian, and doesn't really write anything that contributes to the conversation... kind of a waste of time.
I disagree. The cat may make you bristle, but he's a good poster. He just has a bit of a Holier-Than-Thou voice, but he brings goods of a nature that should be appreciated, even in it's bristliness. I know I made up that word.

[SAGirl]

I disagree. The cat may make you bristle, but he's a good poster. He just has a bit of a Holier-Than-Thou voice, but he brings goods of a nature that should be appreciated, even in it's bristliness. I know I made up that word.
Lol. To each his own I suppose.

[tonight...you]

Lol. To each his own I suppose.
True. Nothing to stress about.

[YGWHI]

Don't get why the Spurs would give Pau a long-term contract when after 2018, they will be able to sign every player they want...Don't give an old guy a 2-3 year contract!!

[jimbo]

Fuzzy is 2012 reddit personified tbh

[TheCerebral1]

Long term could be a new 2 year deal I assume. He out played LMA, so I'm opened to the idea. However, he's getting long in the tooth for sure.

[tholdren]

But Chinook is actually knowledgeable

Only about the cap. When it comes to actual basketball ability, scheme, or process dude is as bad as sa girl

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Only about the cap. When it comes to actual basketball ability, scheme, or process dude is as bad as sa girl

He makes nice tables when presenting his cap information is more like it.

[TimDunkem]

I remember when I said Chinooks ball takes were awful and everyone including DPG defended him. :lol Clear as day now that his takes are awful.

[sasaint]

Don't get why the Spurs would give Pau a long-term contract when after 2018, they will be able to sign every player they want...Don't give an old guy a 2-3 year contract!!

I could see the team letting Pau sign elsewhere and this season becoming a big rebuild now that we have both Danny and LMA on the blocks.

[james evans]

i want Gasol's no defense playing/non posting up ass gone

[therealtruth]

They got him to do an RJ.

[BatManu20]

Soon.

883733078035877888

[tholdren]

Soon.

883733078035877888

Lol. Then why are you fat and out of shape the whole damn season of you got so much left. Pray for a trump deportation.

[Hoops Czar]

For those who thought Pau was walking away... :lmao

[Poolboy5623]

Has Pau even touched a basketball this summer?

[tholdren]

For those who thought Pau was walking away... :lmao

More like for those of you who said sign him

[spurraider21]

Soon.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/117/021/enhanced-buzz-28895-1301694293-0.jpg