Stake you claim on White

[picnroll]

A year or two will have Spurstalk fans saying I knew he was going to a good pick/ I knew he was going to suck. Stake your claim for future bookmarking.
We already have some who've made it clear what they expect. I'm in the good pick camp. George Hill level. Not that level D but compensating with better play making and shooting from the get go.

[ducks]

I think he will be great for off the bench. I like murray as the stating point guard

[Chinook]

Bend over, and I'll stake my claim.

[coachmac87]

He's pretty much what Patty Mills should be with better handle, size, passing ability...

[xellos88330]

I don't like the pick, but I hope he pans out. I wasn't high on Leonard when the Spurs drafted him either. So here is to hoping I am wrong :toast

[picnroll]

Bend over, and I'll stake my claim.

Think you already made yours earlier. You were on the pick sucks side as I recall.

[Chinook]

Think you already made yours earlier. You were on the pick sucks side as I recall.

I am more optimistic after reading his scouting reports. He's 23, but he has upside still. I'm not in the prediction game, but this is far from the worst I've felt about a pick. Still really wanted a big more, though.

[Mr. Body]

Good pick especially at that spot. The NBA is shitting the bed by ignoring older players and he may be one who surprises.

[100%duncan]

His shot is sweet, quick release plus a natural follow through. Solid rotation guy is my bet.

[picnroll]

I am more optimistic after reading his scouting reports. He's 23, but he has upside still. I'm not in the prediction game, but this is far from the worst I've felt about a pick. Still really wanted a big more, though.
Yeah bigs are a problem, particular with Lapussy now. I think thought White's a great fit with Murray going forward though, decent skills as a secondary ball handler and better yet a knock down shooter with ability to drive on close outs and pass unlike our current starting SG.

[TimDunkem]

Personally wish the Spurs went with a big. If they had to go with a guard, I'm surprised they didn't go with Josh Hart. Hope they don't eventually regret that.

Of course, I'm rooting for White.

[Mnky]

This was a deep draft, so there will be plenty of discussion on the pick, but the kid is ready to play. This old moniker, gets old. Everyone thought simmons couldn't develop past a d leaguer cuz of age, amd he was the best player against the warriors. Everyone has potential, only difference is amount of opportunity, which younger people will have more, but doesn't mean much if they don't make much of the opportunity. Kyle Anderson is almost the same exact player. Hasnt developed much, and he really needs a consistent shot to play. He had one area he needed, and a few years of opportunity and hasn't accomplished a lot. He still has more opportunity thoigh, because of age. Time will tell what he does with it.

White has consistently made the most of opportunity and constantly got better when given it. Much like Kawhi coming, i think players who seize opportunity are the real prizes. This kid has that attribute. I really liked Harts defensive variation, and Bell and Rabb would have been nice amd more of a need to me, but they do have Milotov and bertans waiting for their turn too in the rotation.

Guards who can create offense is what they needed most. They definitely got that with two young players still who wont see their prime for 6-7 years, and got those contributors tied down with super cheap contracts. I'm sure everyone would have been happy for their prices If they were free agents tbh.


I like the draft, it addresses the spurs biggest real need, which was dribble penetration and offense creation. Add hanga to the mix, and the spurs definitely got longer and more athletic while also upgrading the offense repertoire.

I was initially upset, but when I think about it, the picks were above average for their range and contribution expectations.

White will be a strong cog in the system.

[TheGoldStandard]

Just another player, whatever upside the kid has will be squashed out by Pop sitting him when he makes mistakes or running out corpses instead of giving the kid minutes.

[raybies]

After watching the vid of Kadeem Allen shutting him down and watching his weaknesses vid on DraftExpress, I never gave this guy a chance, but I have since warmed to him and here's why:

1. He doesn't rely on elite tools physically. He plays old school fundamental ball and you guys know Duncan was like that too. He should age well, but that's a little far ahead. This dude can just flat out play and he probably won't have the best defender of the other team on him and should benefit from having better players around him.

2. He's a Swiss Army Knife-like guard. He's great insurance for just about any guard that doesn't come back next year and could possibly supplant Murray in the starting lineup if we miss in free agency or Murray has a tough year, however unlikely.

3. He's a two way player. In the modern game the more versatile a player that can play both sides of the ball is a huge commodity and this guy is like a jack of all trades. He's got a little of everything in his repertoire. He can play on ball, off ball on offense or play individual or team defense. He probably won't be a great defender but he can make plays on that side and should be a much better defender than Mills, let's say.

4. He's a high IQ player. He should figure it out. He's found a way to succeed in every level and if history repeats itself he should be a real player in the NBA.

Prediction: I think he'll need help and won't be a star or even All Star but he could be a fringe elite role player as his ceiling and a rotation player as his floor imo. I just doubt he crumbles after all he's been through; that's why you look for guys with character, since you know how they are going to react to obstacles. I guess I should be happy to get him cause PATFO has had more success drafting guards then bigs...

[SAGirl]

?Don't know him, or watched him in college so I don't have a claim.

I hope he plays well for the Spurs though. I like that he can shoot frankly. Spurs had to get a guard who could shoot besides Forbes. (Mills won't be reupped in all likelihood and Forbes has looked very marginal so far. He needs to improve that shooting % in the NBA). Anyways, I like the pick bc he looks like a solid player but don't know him enough to be blown away or anything. It's kind of meh

[Mnky]

?Don't know him, or watched him in college so I don't have a claim.

I hope he plays well for the Spurs though. I like that he can shoot frankly. Spurs had to get a guard who could shoot besides Forbes. (Mills won't be reupped in all likelihood and Forbes has looked very marginal so far. He needs to improve that shooting % in the NBA). Anyways, I like the pick bc he looks like a solid player but don't know him enough to be blown away or anything. It's kind of meh

Only player in his conference to average 18-4-4 outside of fultz and wade I believe. He's definitely a basketball player.

[raybies]

^^^ in the last 20 years and not just conference but all of D1

18 pts 4 rebs 4 assists 1 blk - This is the criteria

[sasaint]

I think he will be great for off the bench. I like murray as the stating point guard

I agree, but I wouldn't mind if we ended up with a Murray/White starting backcourt.

[Play Boban]

He's a scrub.

[rastaspur]

I think it will be considered a solid pick about two years down the road.

He could wind up being a solid role player.

[sasaint]

After watching the vid of Kadeem Allen shutting him down and watching his weaknesses vid on DraftExpress, I never gave this guy a chance, but I have since warmed to him and here's why:

1. He doesn't rely on elite tools physically. He plays old school fundamental ball and you guys know Duncan was like that too. He should age well, but that's a little far ahead. This dude can just flat out play and he probably won't have the best defender of the other team on him and should benefit from having better players around him.

2. He's a Swiss Army Knife-like guard. He's great insurance for just about any guard that doesn't come back next year and could possibly supplant Murray in the starting lineup if we miss in free agency or Murray has a tough year, however unlikely.

3. He's a two way player. In the modern game the more versatile a player that can play both sides of the ball is a huge commodity and this guy is like a jack of all trades. He's got a little of everything in his repertoire. He can play on ball, off ball on offense or play individual or team defense. He probably won't be a great defender but he can make plays on that side and should be a much better defender than Mills, let's say.

4. He's a high IQ player. He should figure it out. He's found a way to succeed in every level and if history repeats itself he should be a real player in the NBA.

Prediction: I think he'll need help and won't be a star or even All Star but he could be a fringe elite role player as his ceiling and a rotation player as his floor imo. I just doubt he crumbles after all he's been through; that's why you look for guys with character, since you know how they are going to react to obstacles. I guess I should be happy to get him cause PATFO has had more success drafting guards then bigs...

Many thanks for your analysis/opinion. I hope you are right. And I hope that Pop will see this year as a re-tooling year and go with younger guys more.

[SAGirl]

Only player in his conference to average 18-4-4 outside of fultz and wade I believe. He's definitely a basketball player.
Not as impressive to me bc he's old frankly. His age at the ncaa level does say a lot about his level of experience vs his competition etc... so I am not getting blown away by his stats. Again didn't watch him so I don't really know him but he appears solid and a good shooter so I am very satisfied that he fulfills a need.

[TimDunkem]

Don't think he's a total scrub, but I'm skeptical he'll be more than a shorter Fathead (just okay at everything, great at nothing).

If we were going for the Swiss Army knife type guard, I think the Spurs should've went with Hart.

[BatManu20]

Solid backup PG to Murray it in two years. Will be a good rotation guy who people will complain about because his lack of great defense or athleticism, but he'll offset some of it with his shooting and ability to make players around him better with his passing. Skilled and unselfish team player who fits into the Spurs' culture.

[raybies]

Don't think he's a total scrub, but I'm skeptical he'll be more than a shorter Fathead (just okay at everything, great at nothing).

If we were going for the Swiss Army knife type guard, I think the Spurs should've went with Hart.

It's just Hart can't run the point so I understand why PATFO may of went this route. Hart will be a better defender but I think White is a better all around player imo

[raybies]

Don't know why people say he's years away. He was a senior. He should be ready now, I mean isn't that why you select a senior in the first place. And you kinda know what you get. He isn't some snot nosed kid. He should have a little more leeway than a moldable player that is still gum shoed.

[TimDunkem]

It's just Hart can't run the point so I understand why PATFO may of went this route. Hart will be a better defender but I think White is a better all around player imo

Is that what they thought about Brogdon? :depressed

[SAGirl]

Don't think he's a total scrub, but I'm skeptical he'll be more than a shorter Fathead (just okay at everything, great at nothing).

If we were going for the Swiss Army knife type guard, I think the Spurs should've went with Hart.
A shorter fathead is not an NBA level player tbh. It's kyles size, his length, and positional versatility, on tp of rebounding and defense + bbiq that have gotten him playing time. Kyle measuring 6'4 or 6'5 wouldn't be an NBA level player.

bt the way Kyle was excellent in college (and in all lower leagues he's played at as everyone knows)...

jury still out on white. He's got to find his own thing

[sasaint]

I am gonna coattail raybies and BatManu20 on this one. He will be a nice rotation player, if not a starter, within a couple of seasons.

[TimDunkem]

But that's exactly what everyone is saying White brings. :lol

[raybies]

Is that what they thought about Brogdon? :depressed
Malcolm was a point in college. Hart was a 2 who playmaked...

[Solid D]

Staked.

As I said last night, I like this kid. He's got some flare.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/092/974/638.gif

[TimDunkem]

Malcolm was a point in college. Hart was a 2 who playmaked...
And now Malcolm is playmaking at both positions depending on the unit on the floor.

[sasaint]

Is that what they thought about Brogdon? :depressed

Spurs definitely whiffed on Brogdon, and he was dying to be a Spur. And his resume was up there with the Admiral's as far as what the Spurs want in terms of character. He can definitely play either guard spot. The Spurs just blew it, and I will likely never get over that. He and Murray would have developed into an incredible backcourt, both being very good combo types with complementary skills.

Hart is a homeless man's Brogdon.

[TimDunkem]

Yeah. Let's hope so. :lol

[sasaint]

Malcolm was a point in college. Hart was a 2 who playmaked...

Not really. London Perrantes was the designated PG at UVa, but in truth, they were both combo types.

[raybies]

Spurs definitely whiffed on Brogdon, and he was dying to be a Spur. And his resume was up there with the Admiral's as far as what the Spurs want in terms of character. He can definitely play either guard spot. The Spurs just blew it, and I will likely never get over that. He and Murray would have developed into an incredible backcourt, both being very good combo types with complementary skills.

Hart is a homeless man's Brogdon.
I get why they did it though, they just went for upside really. They were going for the home run and Brogdan was ready to play. He's probably a backup guard on a championship caliber team. But he's kind of in the mold of Beverly and Delevadova, both of whom were second round picks I believe. We'll see if he can take it to the next level or be an elite role player but I doubt he has much upside left.

As for Murray, he has a much higher ceiling. Murray can theoretically get you a basket if you need one, and I mean eventually. I believe when Murray is farther along you can play him in the pick and roll or iso. He could probably take any point to the rack in an iso right now except Beverly lol and if they switch on the pick, him on a big would death. He's got elite physical tools, with size and length, and can rebound. He just really needs to develop his playmaking skills.

But yeah watching Brogdan in the playoffs hurt but just give it time.

[jhfenton]

I'm not quite as negative today as I was last night. He has the potential to be a valuable backup combo guard.

[sasaint]

I get why they did it though, they just went for upside really. They were going for the home run and Brogdan was ready to play. He's probably a backup guard on a championship caliber team. But he's kind of in the mold of Beverly and Delevadova, both of whom were second round picks I believe. We'll see if he can take it to the next level or be an elite role player but I doubt he has much upside left.

As for Murray, he has a much higher ceiling. Murray can theoretically get you a basket if you need one, and I mean eventually. I believe when Murray is farther along you can play him in the pick and roll or iso. He could probably take any point to the rack in an iso right now except Beverly lol and if they switch on the pick, him on a big would death. He's got elite physical tools, with size and length, and can rebound. He just really needs to develop his playmaking skills.

But yeah watching Brogdan in the playoffs hurt but just give it time.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I love Dijon even though I really wanted Brogdon. (And I agree - Dijon has much more upside.) BUT, Brogdon didn't go until the second round. I wanted the Spurs to buy a pick or trade a future pick to pick him up, TOO.

[loveforthegame]

Solid bench player. Not great at one thing but does a little of everything.

[DMC]

A year or two will have Spurstalk fans saying I knew he was going to a good pick/ I knew he was going to suck. Stake your claim for future bookmarking.
We already have some who've made it clear what they expect. I'm in the good pick camp. George Hill level. Not that level D but compensating with better play making and shooting from the get go.

It's just going to be a wild ass guess right now either way. So whatever you do two or three years from now you had no idea.

[Mnky]

Not as impressive to me bc he's old frankly. His age at the ncaa level does say a lot about his level of experience vs his competition etc... so I am not getting blown away by his stats. Again didn't watch him so I don't really know him but he appears solid and a good shooter so I am very satisfied that he fulfills a need.

He's only had one year at that level. Only other guard in the draft to accomplish that in the same conference went #1.


Age has more to do with health, than ability. I know you were on the wrong side of the simmons argument quite a few times over age.There were quite a few young guys spurfan wanted that no one remembers from the past couple drafts.

Brogdan was probably the biggest miss. And hes the oldest of his draft.. age is just a number homie.

[Russ]

Solid bench player. Not great at one thing but does a little of everything.

Actually, I think the Spurs are betting that he can do one thing really well -- shoot NBA threes.

This pick doesn't make sense unless the Spurs think White's a legitimate gunner.

He'll rise or fall on his outside shooting.

[Solid D]

He's also good at getting to the line.

[Solid D]

I look forward to seeing Blossomgame work in the Summer League.

[Mr. Body]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I love Dijon even though I really wanted Brogdon. (And I agree - Dijon has much more upside.) BUT, Brogdon didn't go until the second round. I wanted the Spurs to buy a pick or trade a future pick to pick him up, TOO.

When have the Spurs ever bought picks?

[sasaint]

When have the Spurs ever bought picks?

"...or trade a future pick..." But you are right; it might not have been an extremely realistic expectation. :lol But I wonder if you read the many comments he made about admiring the Spurs and wanting to be a Spur or my pre-draft post of the Charlottesville newspaper article about Brogdon? He was just a perfect Spur. But no matter; it is all history at this point.

[loveforthegame]

Actually, I think the Spurs are betting that he can do one thing really well -- shoot NBA threes.

This pick doesn't make sense unless the Spurs think White's a legitimate gunner.

He'll rise or fall on his outside shooting.

That's fair. Plus RC mentioned his defense.

I only meant I see him providing a little of everything. Not just wow in one or two areas.

Not the pick I was expecting but there's nothing to hate about it. I'm rooting for him. :tu

[look_at_g_shred]

Midget who will have trouble fighting through screens and will always lose his man.

[look_at_g_shred]

TBH I don't see a need for him when we already have Forbes who hardly plays already.

[Dverde]

If Tad said he's good, he must be good.

[TimDunkem]

TBH I don't see a need for him when we already have Forbes who hardly plays already.
As if Forbes is actually going to stick around. :lmao

[neboat]

If he can be a solid role player, have an impact like Shaun Livingston, that'd be nice

[BatManu20]

Midget who will have trouble fighting through screens and will always lose his man.

Midget? He's 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan..



TBH I don't see a need for him when we already have Forbes who hardly plays already.

He's significantly better than Forbes.

[sasaint]

Not as impressive to me bc he's old frankly. His age at the ncaa level does say a lot about his level of experience vs his competition etc... so I am not getting blown away by his stats. Again didn't watch him so I don't really know him but he appears solid and a good shooter so I am very satisfied that he fulfills a need.

Old? I am always amazed at people's perception of age. It wasn't THAT long ago that the NBA banned players who were not old enough to have graduated from college. Drafting college seniors was the norm. Nowadays Sophmores are too old. So everybod thinks NBA teams need to draft these freshmen who barely know the game; then the same people complain about the quality of play in the league. You can't have it both ways. If you draft raw freshmen and have to coach them on fundamentals as college coaches formerly did while throwing them into the NBA fray against men like Kawhi or LeBron, then it will take most of those guys a few years to perform at a professional level - if they ever do. Ageism also seems like a strange prejudice in the modern NBA when it seems like players are generally enjoying longer careers - especially with the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

Old? I am always amazed at people's perception of age. It wasn't THAT long ago that the NBA banned players who were not old enough to have graduated from college. Drafting college seniors was the norm. Nowadays Sophmores are too old. So everybod thinks NBA teams need to draft these freshmen who barely know the game; then the same people complain about the quality of play in the league. You can't have it both ways. If you draft raw freshmen and have to coach them on fundamentals as college coaches formerly did while throwing them into the NBA fray against men like Kawhi or LeBron, then it will take most of those guys a few years to perform at a professional level - if they ever do. Ageism also seems like a strange prejudice in the modern NBA when it seems like players are generally enjoying longer careers - especially with the Spurs.

Agreed. During the Chris Paul draft Atlanta raised a lot of eyebrows by selecting an unproven freshman named Marvin Williams in front of CP and Deron Williams. He turned out... blah. Now every team is scrambling to draft Marvin Williams. Everyone in this draft was Marvin Williams.

[hooperflash]

Looks like a gamer, I wish him the best even if it's not with us.

[sasaint]

Agreed. During the Chris Paul draft Atlanta raised a lot of eyebrows by selecting an unproven freshman named Marvin Williams in front of CP and Deron Williams. He turned out... blah. Now every team is scrambling to draft Marvin Williams. Everyone in this draft was Marvin Williams.

Yeah, I remember Marvin. :lol

[picnroll]

I think unless you have a guy with two or three elite metrics and what you feel are some correctable metrics, e.g. Murray with elite size, quickness and handles but issues with strength, shooting and decision making, late in the draft you're better off going after a solid, established college player with 3 or 4 years experience. Those guys are more developed and you have a better feel for their floor is, more likely to be an NBA player

[sasaint]

As if Forbes is actually going to stick around. :lmao

I tend to agree. I think we just drafted a guy to replace both Mills and Forbes.

[spursince#99]

He stinks. He can't even turn the corner against bigs on the pick and roll. Too casual with no urgency in his game whatsoever. I hate the pick.

[313]

Feels like one of those guys who never gets much PT here then gets moved

[tholdren]

He will get better. This is how shit the talent in the nba is.

[cjw]

Agreed. During the Chris Paul draft Atlanta raised a lot of eyebrows by selecting an unproven freshman named Marvin Williams in front of CP and Deron Williams. He turned out... blah. Now every team is scrambling to draft Marvin Williams. Everyone in this draft was Marvin Williams.

Seriously. Even on the same college team, guys were drafted based on upside and not production. Swinging for fences vs. grabbing the more sure thing without the crazy upside.

The Gonzaga kid Zach Collins has the tools to be great but is raw and won't contribute much if at all on the first years of his rookie deal. Meanwhile, Williams-Goss goes late in the second and could be a very solid backup PG. Collins has a lot more upside obviously but may never tap it.

Someone brought up Marvin Williams who didn't even start for his UNC team that produced multiple other NBAers.

[TheDoctor]

I am more optimistic after reading his scouting reports. He's 23, but he has upside still. I'm not in the prediction game, but this is far from the worst I've felt about a pick. Still really wanted a big more, though.
We all know how you want'em big Chinook.

[GSH]

A year or two will have Spurstalk fans saying I knew he was going to a good pick/ I knew he was going to suck. Stake your claim for future bookmarking.
We already have some who've made it clear what they expect. I'm in the good pick camp. George Hill level. Not that level D but compensating with better play making and shooting from the get go.


It's kind of a ridiculous premise. First of all, it's all guesswork at this point.

Second of all, unless he becomes a clear star in the league, nobody will agree on whether he worked out or not. Look at Fathead. People here can't even agree on whether he was a total bust, or a great success for a late pick. Both sides say, "I told you so"... at the same time.

[objective]

Had him on my hope list, but under the other guys I wanted like Bell and Bolden.

Watched his game against Oregon last night. Good game stat-wise, but the most impressive showing. Good shooting, decent passing. Issues with athleticism getting to the rim and converting it seemed all game long. He does play a lot like Anderson without the refusal to shoot open threes.

Hope Murray gets stronger, because they might be more suited to be together than one backing up the other. Schmitz had said on pre-draft podcasts things about how he might be best on the ball but with a bigger athlete who can get to the rim next to him, and that is more in line with Murray.

More angry about the Warriors buying good gamble picks than the Spurs picking White.

[Chinook]

We all know how you want'em big Chinook.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NX9jvh__Zk

[picnroll]

It's kind of a ridiculous premise. First of all, it's all guesswork at this point.

Second of all, unless he becomes a clear star in the league, nobody will agree on whether he worked out or not. Look at Fathead. People here can't even agree on whether he was a total bust, or a great success for a late pick. Both sides say, "I told you so"... at the same time.
You can't watch the tapes and feel you get an idea of what his strengths and weaknesses might be? Why bother posting anything about draft choices or stating a preference? I have certain expectations of success for him. If I'm wrong I'll own it. I was hopeful for Mahinmi. Wrong. Based on the summit game I was hopefully for Jean Charles but apparently he got body snatched. Murray has shown more promise than I expected from pre-draft tapes I saw mostly because he's hit the threes albeit in limited numbers at a higher percentage than I expected and he's making those wild ass floaters at a higher percentage than I expected (still not crazy about his relying on that shot so much).

[keithington1]

We've been looking for a shooter and a playmaker. Here's our guy. He can put the ball in the bucket and he has IQ. He's taller and more athletic than SG CJ Mccollum. High floor kinda high cieling. Could he fill the Manu role? I actually think he could do that. Got to put the ball in the bucket against the Warriors.

[Chinook]

It's kind of a ridiculous premise. First of all, it's all guesswork at this point.

Second of all, unless he becomes a clear star in the league, nobody will agree on whether he worked out or not. Look at Fathead. People here can't even agree on whether he was a total bust, or a great success for a late pick. Both sides say, "I told you so"... at the same time.

More importantly, that's the only reason this thread will exist. The insistence on people trying to pull up old quotes to laugh a people is by far the lamest aspects of this board (other than doing this but skipping the whole "evidence" thing).

[picnroll]

More importantly, that's the only reason this thread will exist. The insistence on people trying to pull up old quotes to laugh a people is by far the lamest aspects of this board (other than doing this but skipping the whole "evidence" thing).
My motivation is actually to try to get guys like dabom and apolosic to commit so hopefully we won't get endless threads started by them about how they were the first people on earth to recognize guys like Kawhi's greatness.

Of course we won't here a peak out of them for awhile.

[gospursgojas]

Any relationship to JAMES WHIIIIIITE? If not, idgaf about this scrub.

[keithington1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOXE5JcI7QU
Cj McCollum potential or G.Hill

[tonight...you]

Me rikey.

[Russ]

Factors in White's favor:

1. He wasn't offered a big-time division one scholarship (like Steph Curry);

2. He's a late-bloomer (like Steph Curry);

3. He shoots from way past the college three-point line (like Steph Curry);

4. His shooting motion is (like Steph Curry);

5. He doesn't look like he should be playing in the NBA (like Steph Curry).

That's the best I can do.

[MaNu4Tres]

After watching the vid of Kadeem Allen shutting him down and watching his weaknesses vid on DraftExpress, I never gave this guy a chance, but I have since warmed to him and here's why:

1. He doesn't rely on elite tools physically. He plays old school fundamental ball and you guys know Duncan was like that too. He should age well, but that's a little far ahead. This dude can just flat out play and he probably won't have the best defender of the other team on him and should benefit from having better players around him.

You can't compare a post and a guard in this aspect. A guard absolutely needs above average athleticism to succeed as a lead guard. White didn't rely on elite tools physically in college. The NBA is a different animal for play-makers on the perimeter though. Duncan was a phenomenal athlete coming into the league and created significant separation in the post -- which allowed him to display wonderful footwork and high efficiency in ISOs down on block or 15 feet from the basket. Duncan later on got ankle and foot problems which slowed him down, but since he's a post with great hands, length, fundamentals, he was able to maintain effectiveness as he physically regressed. Length and fundamentals can take you a long way as a post in the 00's. It's a different story with perimeter players. If you're worth any amount of significance, you will have an athletic good defender checking you. You have to have above average athletic ability to succeed in those situations. I don't think White has this. I think his ceiling is very limited ( unlike Murray). I see him as a back up PG at the very best. He'll never be a good solid starter in this league imo. A solid shooter/back up lead guard off the bench is what I'm expecting at the very best.

[Dex]

With 29, you gotta go with a high-risk, high-reward player.

If the Spurs got a guy who is just ho-hum and floated around the team for 3-5 years, that doesn't really move the needle. We already have Kyle Anderson.

If the guy doesn't make it, no big deal, he's a 29th pick

If he can live up to det potential, though...Spurs walk away looking like geniuses yet again.

[TheGreatYacht]

I predict Buford drafted this dude so ESPN can repeat the struggle story White had as a journeymen (just like they did with Simmons, Green, Dedmon and Neal) every damn national TV game over and over and over again. Every time the story is told, Buford's ego inflates.

I can already hear it.....

Mike Breen: Jeff, did you know that Derrick White had a late growth spurt and didn't get a DI offer in college until his Senior year? Then one year later he was a 1st round pick.

Jeff Van Gundy: That RC Buford, how does he do it?

Buford at home:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/spurs/Schad/img/Spurs/Headshots/rc.jpg

[emanueldavidginobili]

For some reason I have this feeling that this kid is going to be like a CJ McCollum. Probably not as good because that kid is a stud but similar playing style. Like people have said this kid has been through it all and knows how to play through adversity and has a pair of nuts unlike most of the Spurs.

[TD 21]

I am more optimistic after reading his scouting reports. He's 23, but he has upside still. I'm not in the prediction game, but this is far from the worst I've felt about a pick. Still really wanted a big more, though.



Had him on my hope list, but under the other guys I wanted like Bell and Bolden.

More angry about the Warriors buying good gamble picks than the Spurs picking White.



You can't compare a post and a guard in this aspect. A guard absolutely needs above average athleticism to succeed as a lead guard. White didn't rely on elite tools physically in college. The NBA is a different animal for play-makers on the perimeter though. Duncan was a phenomenal athlete coming into the league and created significant separation in the post -- which allowed him to display wonderful footwork and high efficiency in ISOs down on block or 15 feet from the basket. Duncan later on got ankle and foot problems which slowed him down, but since he's a post with great hands, length, fundamentals, he was able to maintain effectiveness as he physically regressed. Length and fundamentals can take you a long way as a post in the 00's. It's a different story with perimeter players. If you're worth any amount of significance, you will have an athletic good defender checking you. You have to have above average athletic ability to succeed in those situations. I don't think White has this. I think his ceiling is very limited ( unlike Murray). I see him as a back up PG at the very best. He'll never be a good solid starter in this league imo. A solid shooter/back up lead guard off the bench is what I'm expecting at the very best.

:tu

[raybies]

You can't compare a post and a guard in this aspect. A guard absolutely needs above average athleticism to succeed as a lead guard. White didn't rely on elite tools physically in college. The NBA is a different animal for play-makers on the perimeter though. Duncan was a phenomenal athlete coming into the league and created significant separation in the post -- which allowed him to display wonderful footwork and high efficiency in ISOs down on block or 15 feet from the basket. Duncan later on got ankle and foot problems which slowed him down, but since he's a post with great hands, length, fundamentals, he was able to maintain effectiveness as he physically regressed. Length and fundamentals can take you a long way as a post in the 00's. It's a different story with perimeter players. If you're worth any amount of significance, you will have an athletic good defender checking you. You have to have above average athletic ability to succeed in those situations. I don't think White has this. I think his ceiling is very limited ( unlike Murray). I see him as a back up PG at the very best. He'll never be a good solid starter in this league imo. A solid shooter/back up lead guard off the bench is what I'm expecting at the very best.

I'm not sure about that. Good fundamentals in BBall is like knowing truth in life man, your going to be successful imo. And it's because he can play the pick and roll so effectively. I hate to bring my sorry self into the equation as a base for defense, but here we go. I'm not athletic or have any physical tools but I can shoot the three. I'm often guarded by the other teams best defender. I know the only way i can get past him realistically is a pick and roll. So if they don't switch I go around the screen and hit the open man. If my man goes under I shoot the three, and if they do switch I drive and kick or shoot the pull up, all things he shows he can do. My point is that even though I'm not an NBA player basketball is basketball. It's not a complicated game. I'm sure Pop has said something to the effect, if I remember correctly. If he didn't play the pick like another player I thought of when i thought of him, Marco Bellineli, then I'd agree he'd be in trouble and relegated to spot ups, catch and shoot opportunities and cuts, all of which he can do any ways, but the fact is he can pass out the pick too so that's where his ceiling gets higher and he has a shot as a playmaker. So his ceiling is like a lite CJ McCollum or a floor of like Marco Belinelli imo.

We'll see how he does in Summer League.

[Capt Bringdown]

He's not going to be an impact player, and even if he were, Pop won't give him the necessary PT to make a difference in the post season.

[MaNu4Tres]

He's not going to be an impact player, and even if he were, Pop won't give him the necessary PT to make a difference in the post season.

Jordan Bell will be the Warriors back up 5 next yr and their starting center by 18/19. Hes the kind of player that will be in the game late in 4th quarters because of how hes able to defend.

Bell was the type of defensive impact player Spurs desperately needed.

[duncan2150]

You can't compare a post and a guard in this aspect. A guard absolutely needs above average athleticism to succeed as a lead guard. White didn't rely on elite tools physically in college. The NBA is a different animal for play-makers on the perimeter though. Duncan was a phenomenal athlete coming into the league and created significant separation in the post -- which allowed him to display wonderful footwork and high efficiency in ISOs down on block or 15 feet from the basket. Duncan later on got ankle and foot problems which slowed him down, but since he's a post with great hands, length, fundamentals, he was able to maintain effectiveness as he physically regressed. Length and fundamentals can take you a long way as a post in the 00's. It's a different story with perimeter players. If you're worth any amount of significance, you will have an athletic good defender checking you. You have to have above average athletic ability to succeed in those situations. I don't think White has this. I think his ceiling is very limited ( unlike Murray). I see him as a back up PG at the very best. He'll never be a good solid starter in this league imo. A solid shooter/back up lead guard off the bench is what I'm expecting at the very best.

what's interesting Is that His Athletic results during the combine Were good, he just lacks some explosiveness.
Ds

[GSH]

More importantly, that's the only reason this thread will exist. The insistence on people trying to pull up old quotes to laugh a people is by far the lamest aspects of this board (other than doing this but skipping the whole "evidence" thing).


That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. "Stake your claim", so that you can either pretend you knew it all along, or so that someone else can screw with you for being wrong. And the real problem is that even when you were right, about half of them say you were wrong. That's the Fathead experience.

[south side spur]

A guard absolutely needs above average athleticism to succeed as a lead guard. White didn't rely on elite tools physically in college. The NBA is a different animal for play-makers on the perimeter though. You have to have above average athletic ability to succeed in those situations. I don't think White has this. I think his ceiling is very limited ( unlike Murray). I see him as a back up PG at the very best. He'll never be a good solid starter in this league imo. A solid shooter/back up lead guard off the bench is what I'm expecting at the very best.

So with speed in the 97th percentile historically at the combine as well as standing vertical in the 99th percentile historically, he doesn't possess above average athleticism? You're being hypercritical.

I agree with your "back up" assessment for his ceiling but he's a back up at both guard spots. He can play off the ball and his offensive game is easily more polished than Murray's, this coming from a Murray fan who wanted him to get more minutes this season.

Going into this season without Parker, possibly without Ginobili or Mills, I'll say he gets more minutes than Murray. Murray might have a higher ceiling, but currently White is just better offensively there's no denying that. He's looking to create, the ball doesn't stick, he can score anyway and he gets to the line. It's not really saying much but he's easily more gifted offensively than Danny.

Defensively, we'll see this summer but it's not like Murray is a lockdown defender...at least not yet.

[Mr. Body]

Seriously. Even on the same college team, guys were drafted based on upside and not production. Swinging for fences vs. grabbing the more sure thing without the crazy upside.

The Gonzaga kid Zach Collins has the tools to be great but is raw and won't contribute much if at all on the first years of his rookie deal. Meanwhile, Williams-Goss goes late in the second and could be a very solid backup PG. Collins has a lot more upside obviously but may never tap it.

Someone brought up Marvin Williams who didn't even start for his UNC team that produced multiple other NBAers.

Well, I brought up Marvin Williams in the post you're replying to. :)

[GSH]

With 29, you gotta go with a high-risk, high-reward player.

If the Spurs got a guy who is just ho-hum and floated around the team for 3-5 years, that doesn't really move the needle. We already have Kyle Anderson.

If the guy doesn't make it, no big deal, he's a 29th pick

If he can live up to det potential, though...Spurs walk away looking like geniuses yet again.


Exactly. If he had no chance, the Spurs wouldn't have picked him - period. No matter what some of the trolls like to say, the Spurs FO doesn't make random, crappy picks. They look at things that aren't in the highlight videos we get to see. They talk to coaches and people who know their prospects. There's no way in hell we can know about a lot of that.

The fact that the Spurs took him says that he's got a good shot, for a 29 pick. The fact that he's older doesn't scare me a bit - hopefully it means he's more mature and more ready to be part of the Spurs culture. I was one of the majority of people here who freaked out when the Spurs picked George Hill - never again. I remember how terrible Murray looked in his first summer league games. Never again.

White is fine. I'm looking forward to seeing him on the court.

[SAGirl]

He's only had one year at that level. Only other guard in the draft to accomplish that in the same conference went #1.


Age has more to do with health, than ability. I know you were on the wrong side of the simmons argument quite a few times over age.There were quite a few young guys spurfan wanted that no one remembers from the past couple drafts.

Brogdan was probably the biggest miss. And hes the oldest of his draft.. age is just a number homie.

I was on the wrong side of Jsimms bc I believed he'd played long enough to be really close to as good as he could be. He's improved, but pretty much is also the same guy he's been, he just has had a lot more opportunities, minutes to play and a longer leash, but I know you will disagree.

the age issue is not in terms of ceiling... what I am saying is, in the NCAA he's competing depending on what team against guys with a lot less experience. it just doesn't impress me. His stats made him stand out from the pack but him being 23 competing against guys 18-20, there is definitely a difference in the maturity and experience in guys games. take it as you will. I am not saying anything about him in the NBA.. I haven't watched him really and stated that each time (JSimms I had watched plenty so it was different for me)... I am just saying by stats alone (since I don't have anything else to go by), it doesn't tell me anything of how he will do in the NBA.

[Russ]

The more I look at this guy, the more I see the elephant in the room.

He actually does have upside for only one reason -- he's an elite shooter.

Everyone is so used to seeing this guy as a plugger, a likeable story, that they've lost the real story. I know I did -- I thought he was the classic Spurs major-conference unathletic "high basketball IQ" failure, like Chris Carawell.

He's not. He's an elite shooter like Monk and Kennard, just without the acknowledgement of the draft gurus.

I really do think this guy has the same shooting motion as Steph Curry (and its not a common stroke).

He hit 40% of his threes and 50% overall from the floor. That's upside.

And I'm pretty sure that's what the Spurs saw -- RC's comments reciting his shooting percentages kind of confirm that.

[cjw]

Well, I brought up Marvin Williams in the post you're replying to. :)

I'm on a roll of not paying attention in posts. Happens when doing these on phone because forum is still blocked as suspicious website on the PC.



The more I look at this guy, the more I see the elephant in the room.
He actually does have upside for only one reason -- he's an elite shooter.

Everyone is so used to seeing this guy as a plugger, a likeable story, that they've lost the real story. I know I did -- I thought he was the classic Spurs major-conference unathletic "high basketball IQ" failure, like Chris Carawell.

He's not. He's an elite shooter like Monk and Kennard, just without the acknowledgement of the draft gurus.

I really do think this guy has the same shooting motion as Steph Curry (and its not a common stroke).

He hit 40% of his threes and 50% overall from the floor. That's upside.

And I'm pretty sure that's what the Spurs saw -- RC's comments reciting his shooting percentages kind of confirm that.

The Ringer did an interesting comparison between him and Kennard - basically saying he wasn't much worse as a shooter than Kennard but had much more of the defense keyed in on him.

Also, 12 guys with 100 attempts from both 2 and 3 shot as well as he did from both ranges last year (56%+ and 39%+) but the list is populated with guys in lesser leagues and stacked teams. He's second among the players listed in assists behind Lonzo, had the most blocks by far, and didn't turn the ball over much considering usage. Josh Hart from Nova seems most similar who coincidentally went one pick later.

Very well rounded and low bust potential. Think downside is a 10 minute a night guy you can rely on for spot playoff minutes, with upside being a key rotation piece - maybe fourth best player on a good team.

Link: https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft-derrick-white-colorado-buffaloes-4ae112d5adec

[SAGirl]

Old? I am always amazed at people's perception of age. It wasn't THAT long ago that the NBA banned players who were not old enough to have graduated from college. Drafting college seniors was the norm. Nowadays Sophmores are too old. So everybod thinks NBA teams need to draft these freshmen who barely know the game; then the same people complain about the quality of play in the league. You can't have it both ways. If you draft raw freshmen and have to coach them on fundamentals as college coaches formerly did while throwing them into the NBA fray against men like Kawhi or LeBron, then it will take most of those guys a few years to perform at a professional level - if they ever do. Ageism also seems like a strange prejudice in the modern NBA when it seems like players are generally enjoying longer careers - especially with the Spurs.

I responded to someone else about this issue.
I think its easier when guys are still learning how to play to evaluate them at the same age range. It may not tell me much about the NBA bc I am not a scout but stats alone don't tell me much in an NBA context when taking account age, bc guys who work on their games are indeed expected to get better. so at 23 he's already been playing longer and is more mature than Dijon who played 1 season in college and scored 15 per game for example his rook year. I would expect at 23 Dijon to have added to his game, have filled out his body etc... it doesn't tell me if he will, it doesn't tell me if he will improve etc... but it's not the same for me to look and evaluate Dijon at 20 and White at 23 by stats alone (its a hypothetical bc I didn't watch him play..) Mkny was coming at me with stats to convince me he'd be good and just on stats I can't. I have to account for how much more mature he is supposed to be than others he's competing against in his league.

and again.. maybe I am in deep water bc I know nothing else about him.

[TheDoctor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NX9jvh__Zk
HAHAHAHAHA :lol

[GSH]

I agree with your "back up" assessment for his ceiling but he's a back up at both guard spots.


I don't know why. I said early on that KA had a ceiling, because of his clear lack of athleticism. I still think that's true, just because that is so important in the NBA now. But this kid seems to have a pretty good motor. Hell, if you look at Kawhi's combine metrics, I think he only had a 26" no-step vertical? Look how far he has elevated his game since his rookie year. Look at how far Simmons elevated his game, after being nowhere.

Cagey NBA veterans are going to pick his pocket for a while. They are going to suck out charges on him, and make him look stupid. What he learns will make all the difference, and that's why the Spurs always look for smart, character guys. He's pretty articulate in an interview - that should be a clue.

[SAGirl]

Agreed. During the Chris Paul draft Atlanta raised a lot of eyebrows by selecting an unproven freshman named Marvin Williams in front of CP and Deron Williams. He turned out... blah. Now every team is scrambling to draft Marvin Williams. Everyone in this draft was Marvin Williams.

I wish I knew what you meant. that's way back of a reference for me...

[TheDoctor]

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. "Stake your claim", so that you can either pretend you knew it all along, or so that someone else can screw with you for being wrong. And the real problem is that even when you were right, about half of them say you were wrong. That's the Fathead experience.

Story of my Spurstalked life tbh :lol

[SAGirl]

I think unless you have a guy with two or three elite metrics and what you feel are some correctable metrics, e.g. Murray with elite size, quickness and handles but issues with strength, shooting and decision making, late in the draft you're better off going after a solid, established college player with 3 or 4 years experience. Those guys are more developed and you have a better feel for their floor is, more likely to be an NBA player

This is a good opinion. makes sense.

[SAGirl]

We all know how you want'em big Chinook.

this is very weird lol creepy?

[SAGirl]

Had him on my hope list, but under the other guys I wanted like Bell and Bolden.

Watched his game against Oregon last night. Good game stat-wise, but the most impressive showing. Good shooting, decent passing. Issues with athleticism getting to the rim and converting it seemed all game long. He does play a lot like Anderson without the refusal to shoot open threes.

Hope Murray gets stronger, because they might be more suited to be together than one backing up the other. Schmitz had said on pre-draft podcasts things about how he might be best on the ball but with a bigger athlete who can get to the rim next to him, and that is more in line with Murray.

More angry about the Warriors buying good gamble picks than the Spurs picking White.
Thanks for this opinion :tu
seems like a good complementary player with a potentially very useful niche.
I will probably like him based on what you said. looking forward to watching him in summer league.

[GSH]

Old? I am always amazed at people's perception of age. It wasn't THAT long ago that the NBA banned players who were not old enough to have graduated from college.

The more I look at this guy, the more I see the elephant in the room.
He actually does have upside for only one reason -- he's an elite shooter.

It doesn't matter what we think. The fact is that most teams/scouts have a belief that guys who stay in college until they are seniors have topped out, and have no more upside. (And upside means that they are going to improve - not that they don't have skills.) They're all looking to hit home runs, and nearly all of them believe that home run level players don't stay in college until they are seniors. It's circular logic, and fortunately the Spurs don't think that way.

Fans read the comments, and act like it's a fact of life - but they don't have a damn clue WHY it's supposedly true. The FO guys know that 19 YO's are a bigger risk, but they tell themselves that they have so much "upside" to make up for it. It's swing for the fence mentality.

[south side spur]

I don't know why. I said early on that KA had a ceiling, because of his clear lack of athleticism. I still think that's true, just because that is so important in the NBA now. But this kid seems to have a pretty good motor. Hell, if you look at Kawhi's combine metrics, I think he only had a 26" no-step vertical? Look how far he has elevated his game since his rookie year. Look at how far Simmons elevated his game, after being nowhere.

Cagey NBA veterans are going to pick his pocket for a while. They are going to suck out charges on him, and make him look stupid. What he learns will make all the difference, and that's why the Spurs always look for smart, character guys. He's pretty articulate in an interview - that should be a clue.

My mistake. I should've said FLOOR, not ceiling as a back up at both guard spots. His ceiling? I mean, I AM a homer.

[SAGirl]

More importantly, that's the only reason this thread will exist. The insistence on people trying to pull up old quotes to laugh a people is by far the lamest aspects of this board (other than doing this but skipping the whole "evidence" thing).

I have to agree with you on that.
I prefer to hear guy's honests opinions based on facts at the time.. heck it's not like guys don't improve if they put in the work and have the ability in their first few years. We don't know and won't know if he will.
two things can happen:
1. he's already improved a ton getting from div. 3 to div. 1 and is tapped out... or he
2. he isn't tapped out.
we can't know that based on facts right now, but I still like to read what others think bc it's interesting... not with the intention of them coming back and making fun of everyone who compared him to Kyle if he flames out fast and furiously out of the league... or the other spectrum.. to have someone making of the comparison to Kyle if he turns out to be much better. lol

I don't know. haven't watched him at all. still interesting to see what others think... but to stake a claim right now, without even having seen him in summer league? bleh.... lets not stake a claim and admit we are all speculating.

by the way I am like the matrix old woman who told neo: "I love candy"
Sagirl loves the speculation.
:bobo

[SAGirl]

I tend to agree. I think we just drafted a guy to replace both Mills and Forbes.

I think this too... maybe bc of his size, he can legit play the 2 in stretches. Those two ^ just too undersized in reality. Excited that he will have a niche to fill though.

[south side spur]

If you haven't yet, watch the full game vs UCLA. He definitely wasn't outclassed by Ball. I think the cynics are going to change their tune after the summer league...I'm thinking it might only take one game actually. Hopefully, we see a lot of Murray AND White together in the back court this summer.

[cjw]

It doesn't matter what we think. The fact is that most teams/scouts have a belief that guys who stay in college until they are seniors have topped out, and have no more upside. (And upside means that they are going to improve - not that they don't have skills.) They're all looking to hit home runs, and nearly all of them believe that home run level players don't stay in college until they are seniors. It's circular logic, and fortunately the Spurs don't think that way.

Fans read the comments, and act like it's a fact of life - but they don't have a damn clue WHY it's supposedly true. The FO guys know that 19 YO's are a bigger risk, but they tell themselves that they have so much "upside" to make up for it. It's swing for the fence mentality.

Perhaps it's Spurs finding an inefficiency. Scouts skew towards trying to unearth a gem vs. recommending a safe pick. They don't get rewarded if the safe pick turns out to be decent, but get destroyed if he busts. High upside guys busting can bust.

[SAGirl]

My motivation is actually to try to get guys like dabom and apolosic to commit so hopefully we won't get endless threads started by them about how they were the first people on earth to recognize guys like Kawhi's greatness.

Of course we won't here a peak out of them for awhile.

they indeed are the only ones who are that childish... dabom specially.

I do like to give credit to guys who are bold with their predictions in the Nostradamus spectrum bc I like speculation....

:reading

[SAGirl]

It's kind of a ridiculous premise. First of all, it's all guesswork at this point.

Second of all, unless he becomes a clear star in the league, nobody will agree on whether he worked out or not. Look at Fathead. People here can't even agree on whether he was a total bust, or a great success for a late pick. Both sides say, "I told you so"... at the same time.

He can't be a total bust when he was picked 30 and is going to start his 4th year in the league and has had positive impact in his team.

There are many who dislike him and will come here to voice disapproval, but one cannot change their perception. If you look at his draft class... he was among the top 10 guys there I think.. last time I looked (a few months ago...) so if guys expected a star they were unreasonable in their standards. He can't be a bust for where he was picked.

[GSH]

Watched his game against Oregon last night. Good game stat-wise, but the most impressive showing. Good shooting, decent passing. Issues with athleticism getting to the rim and converting it seemed all game long. He does play a lot like Anderson without the refusal to shoot open threes.

Hope Murray gets stronger.


I went looking for interviews. In one from early summer (I think) they asked him what he needed to work on, to try and make it in the NBA. The first thing he said was "my body". He knows that he'll have to be stronger than he is. That's true for nearly 100% of rookies, but most of them don't know it. Later, he repeated the fact that he had to work on his body and conditioning. That, to me, was a very good sign. It says he's probably already working on it. The ones who work hard on strength are way ahead of the game.

As for comparisons to Kyle? You can't learn tall - he and Kyle are worlds apart on that. And there's no way he's as slow as Kyle. I'm not saying that to bash Kyle, it's just a fact of life. His drills say he's got pretty good speed and agility, and decent springs. That's also a good start.

Some of the scouting reports mentioned him looking good "when he is engaged". That's talking about a guy who loses focus, or takes plays off. (Or games.) That is going to be a make-or-break factor. I'm sure he has an idea how much will be expected on the Spurs roster. If he doesn't, he will. If he buys in, and commits. Another step in the right direction.

If he's smart, he'll be in the gym with Kawhi as early as they will allow, and trying to match Kawhi's gym time minute for minute. That will have more impact on his ability to excel than most anything else.

[SAGirl]

I see him as a back up PG at the very best. He'll never be a good solid starter in this league imo. A solid shooter/back up lead guard off the bench is what I'm expecting at the very best.
that's good enough for 29. I wouldn't consider him a bust if that is all he can do, like cojo who is a solid backup guard.

[SAGirl]

I'm not sure about that. Good fundamentals in BBall is like knowing truth in life man, your going to be successful imo. And it's because he can play the pick and roll so effectively. I hate to bring my sorry self into the equation as a base for defense, but here we go. I'm not athletic or have any physical tools but I can shoot the three. I'm often guarded by the other teams best defender. I know the only way i can get past him realistically is a pick and roll. So if they don't switch I go around the screen and hit the open man. If my man goes under I shoot the three, and if they do switch I drive and kick or shoot the pull up, all things he shows he can do. My point is that even though I'm not an NBA player basketball is basketball. It's not a complicated game. I'm sure Pop has said something to the effect, if I remember correctly. If he didn't play the pick like another player I thought of when i thought of him, Marco Bellineli, then I'd agree he'd be in trouble and relegated to spot ups, catch and shoot opportunities and cuts, all of which he can do any ways, but the fact is he can pass out the pick too so that's where his ceiling gets higher and he has a shot as a playmaker. So his ceiling is like a lite CJ McCollum or a floor of like Marco Belinelli imo.

We'll see how he does in Summer League.

this was informative.
thanks for sharing raybies.

[SAGirl]

Jordan Bell will be the Warriors back up 5 next yr and their starting center by 18/19. Hes the kind of player that will be in the game late in 4th quarters because of how hes able to defend.

Bell was the type of defensive impact player Spurs desperately needed.

I thought of you when I saw the pick (though I didn't prepare for this draft... pick was at risk to be stashed.. and I was generally less interested than usual in these things). then I saw who it went to and I knew you'd be double the furious...

[tonight...you]

I have to agree with you on that.
I prefer to hear guy's honests opinions based on facts at the time.. heck it's not like guys don't improve if they put in the work and have the ability in their first few years. We don't know and won't know if he will.
two things can happen:
1. he's already improved a ton getting from div. 3 to div. 1 and is tapped out... or he
2. he isn't tapped out.
we can't know that based on facts right now, but I still like to read what others think bc it's interesting... not with the intention of them coming back and making fun of everyone who compared him to Kyle if he flames out fast and furiously out of the league... or the other spectrum.. to have someone making of the comparison to Kyle if he turns out to be much better. lol

I don't know. haven't watched him at all. still interesting to see what others think... but to stake a claim right now, without even having seen him in summer league? bleh.... lets not stake a claim and admit we are all speculating.

by the way I am like the matrix old woman who told neo: "I love candy"
Sagirl loves the speculation.
:bobo
I SAID: me rikey.

[picnroll]

It doesn't matter what we think. The fact is that most teams/scouts have a belief that guys who stay in college until they are seniors have topped out, and have no more upside. (And upside means that they are going to improve - not that they don't have skills.) They're all looking to hit home runs, and nearly all of them believe that home run level players don't stay in college until they are seniors. It's circular logic, and fortunately the Spurs don't think that way.

Fans read the comments, and act like it's a fact of life - but they don't have a damn clue WHY it's supposedly true. The FO guys know that 19 YO's are a bigger risk, but they tell themselves that they have so much "upside" to make up for it. It's swing for the fence mentality.

Wait until Silver lowers the age requirement for draft eligibility even further. Your going to see some incredible train wreck draft picks.

In terms of tap out upside at 22. Ridiculous. Use to be you couldn't even enter the draft until 4 years of college or equivalent age. ABA competition changed that. These guts coming out of college then we're not fully baked except the rare exceptions like Alcindor, Magic, Bird and Walton but even they improved.

[SAGirl]

I SAID: me rikey.

:lmao:claw
fair enough. :)

[TheDoctor]

this is very weird lol creepy?

Don't shoot the messenger.

[GSH]

Wait until Silver lowers the age requirement for draft eligibility even further. Your going to see some incredible train wreck draft picks.

In terms of tap out upside at 22. Ridiculous. Use to be you couldn't even enter the draft until 4 years of college or equivalent age. ABA competition changed that. These guts coming out of college then we're not fully baked except the rare exceptions like Alcindor, Magic, Bird and Walton but even they improved.


The reason they put those noisy trays on slot machines is that people remember the payoffs, and forget about all the losses. Yeah, if they lower the age, there will be more draft busts.

Hell, Tim Duncan stayed at Wake for four years. Imagine saying that his value was limited because he was old and didn't have any upside. :lol

[Southwest Texas Fan]

Old? I am always amazed at people's perception of age. It wasn't THAT long ago that the NBA banned players who were not old enough to have graduated from college. Drafting college seniors was the norm. Nowadays Sophmores are too old. So everybod thinks NBA teams need to draft these freshmen who barely know the game; then the same people complain about the quality of play in the league. You can't have it both ways. If you draft raw freshmen and have to coach them on fundamentals as college coaches formerly did while throwing them into the NBA fray against men like Kawhi or LeBron, then it will take most of those guys a few years to perform at a professional level - if they ever do. Ageism also seems like a strange prejudice in the modern NBA when it seems like players are generally enjoying longer careers - especially with the Spurs.

Bingo!

[SAGirl]

The reason they put those noisy trays on slot machines is that people remember the payoffs, and forget about all the losses. Yeah, if they lower the age, there will be more draft busts.

Hell, Tim Duncan stayed at Wake for four years. Imagine saying that his value was limited because he was old and didn't have any upside. :lol

In fairness to him.. he's kind of the exception... I think all these things with age is really when you are looking at potential stars really.. in the world of roleplayers I think it's tougher to gauge even who will bust in the roleplayer spectrum or not. So much goes into it, as you mention, work ethic is a big part, mental fortitude, perseverence bc guys will undoubtedly fail and get benched etc.

Wasn't it common knowledge Tim would have already been the 1st pick if he came out his sophomore year (could be wrong).

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

Who?

[GSH]

In fairness to him.. he's kind of the exception... I think all these things with age is really when you are looking at potential stars really.. in the world of roleplayers I think it's tougher to gauge even who will bust in the roleplayer spectrum or not. So much goes into it, as you mention, work ethic is a big part, mental fortitude, perseverence bc guys will undoubtedly fail and get benched etc.

Wasn't it common knowledge Tim would have already been the 1st pick if he came out his sophomore year (could be wrong).


How about Draymond, for starters? Too old and no upside?

Jimmy Butler?

[weebo]

JAMES WHITE!...oh wait

[sasaint]

I responded to someone else about this issue.
I think its easier when guys are still learning how to play to evaluate them at the same age range. It may not tell me much about the NBA bc I am not a scout but stats alone don't tell me much in an NBA context when taking account age, bc guys who work on their games are indeed expected to get better. so at 23 he's already been playing longer and is more mature than Dijon who played 1 season in college and scored 15 per game for example his rook year. I would expect at 23 Dijon to have added to his game, have filled out his body etc... it doesn't tell me if he will, it doesn't tell me if he will improve etc... but it's not the same for me to look and evaluate Dijon at 20 and White at 23 by stats alone (its a hypothetical bc I didn't watch him play..) Mkny was coming at me with stats to convince me he'd be good and just on stats I can't. I have to account for how much more mature he is supposed to be than others he's competing against in his league.

and again.. maybe I am in deep water bc I know nothing else about him.

Yeah I was coming at you :lol from a general Ageism stance. The problem with the laws of the basketball universe today is that college coaches don't really have the time (or inclination? - okay, I won't go there) to coach guys up to the same level of fundamental soundness that the NBA expected in days of yore. NBA coaches also lack the time to really coach guys on fundamentals due to the rigors of the NBA schedule. So, it takes most of those freshmen coming into the NBA about 2-3 more years to really get to a point where they are strong contributors - almost the same length of time they would have spent in college. So, the players will receive compensation, which they will not receive in college, but the burden of player development falls more on pro coaches. They have very expensive on-the-job trainees, many of whom will wash out. And are most pro coaches really capable of teaching basketball fundamentals - player development? You think Pringles would be a good guy to teach good basketball skills?

[objective]

I went looking for interviews. In one from early summer (I think) they asked him what he needed to work on, to try and make it in the NBA. The first thing he said was "my body". He knows that he'll have to be stronger than he is. That's true for nearly 100% of rookies, but most of them don't know it. Later, he repeated the fact that he had to work on his body and conditioning. That, to me, was a very good sign. It says he's probably already working on it. The ones who work hard on strength are way ahead of the game.

As for comparisons to Kyle? You can't learn tall - he and Kyle are worlds apart on that. And there's no way he's as slow as Kyle. I'm not saying that to bash Kyle, it's just a fact of life. His drills say he's got pretty good speed and agility, and decent springs. That's also a good start.

Some of the scouting reports mentioned him looking good "when he is engaged". That's talking about a guy who loses focus, or takes plays off. (Or games.) That is going to be a make-or-break factor. I'm sure he has an idea how much will be expected on the Spurs roster. If he doesn't, he will. If he buys in, and commits. Another step in the right direction.

If he's smart, he'll be in the gym with Kawhi as early as they will allow, and trying to match Kawhi's gym time minute for minute. That will have more impact on his ability to excel than most anything else.

My comparison to Kyle was based on watching a game, not highlights. Just one game for now, I'll watch more.

But when he was handling in the pick and roll, I saw a strong resemblance to Anderson. Patient, under control, measured ... Not too much burst.

Just off that one game, I would say his change of speeds was from average to slow, whereas Kyle shifts speeds from slow to slower to glacial to petrifaction.

[SAGirl]

How about Draymond, for starters? Too old and no upside?

Jimmy Butler?

lol good points :tu

[MaNu4Tres]

My comparison to Kyle was based on watching a game, not highlights. Just one game for now, I'll watch more.

But when he was handling in the pick and roll, I saw a strong resemblance to Anderson. Patient, under control, measured ... Not too much burst.

Just off that one game, I would say his change of speeds was from average to slow, whereas Kyle shifts speeds from slow to slower to glacial to petrifaction.

Agreed on your view of White. Exactly what I think as well. Not too impressed. People will point at his 3/4ths sprint time and say he's an athlete but that's not the type of test that translates over. It's about quickness, acceleration, change of speeds -- which he doesn't have. Don't see a high ceiling with White on either end of the floor -- which is why I peg him as a back up lead guard at the very best. If Spurs have him at the SG position, they will only be able to get away with it against poor competition. If he's on the floor at the SG when it matters, he'll get exploited like Mason did.

There were players available w/ higher upside at position of a greater need. I trust RC, but I was disappointed in the pick. The PG position is the most saturated position in the league, you can almost always find a serviceable back up every off-season if needed.

[SAGirl]

Yeah I was coming at you :lol from a general Ageism stance. The problem with the laws of the basketball universe today is that college coaches don't really have the time (or inclination? - okay, I won't go there) to coach guys up to the same level of fundamental soundness that the NBA expected in days of yore. NBA coaches also lack the time to really coach guys on fundamentals due to the rigors of the NBA schedule. So, it takes most of those freshmen coming into the NBA about 2-3 more years to really get to a point where they are strong contributors - almost the same length of time they would have spent in college. So, the players will receive compensation, which they will not receive in college, but the burden of player development falls more on pro coaches. They have very expensive on-the-job trainees, many of whom will wash out. And are most pro coaches really capable of teaching basketball fundamentals - player development? You think Pringles would be a good guy to teach good basketball skills?

I know they don't have time for that (the Head Coaches at least), thus they place guys in a game and when the youngsters don't execute what they are supposed to be doing, in reality they should take a moment and teach, but they are too worried about winning a game etc... I suppose the best time for that is garbage time considering and I have to say I have seen Pop engaged coaching youngsters in garbage time and nodding heads and such, sometimes taking guys out of the game for a teaching moment, which I have enjoyed seeing, but seldom teams have a lot of garbage time and this team didn't have a lot (not as much as last year's team). many games were close, some went to OT, etc... margin of wins wasn't as high. Pop also had a whole 7 new guys in the team, some vets but 4 rookies together at one time and one could hardly say vets Kyle and Jsimms were really vets, they are still learning for their own part ... some things they already know and/or should know but they are still very much learning too. its really the Becky Hammon's of the world and Udoka who have taught these guys... the summer league coaches, and obviously the dleague. Their improvement from season 1 to 2 is noticeable.. they generallly look less lost and know what is expected better but yea, it took two entire and full years, summers included to find out of Simmons was going to have a career in the NBA and that was after he had already paid his way into the dleague and did his time there for two full years on his own. That was 2 full years.

Kyle was coached in high school by the HoF coach Bob Hurley... his dad is an AAU coach far as I know and he played in a reputable university... he also played for team usa young men's team one summer. he's had coaching but his gift all through his life was passing.. playing off the ball is a whole other game. he had to learn... guys are so fricking impatient that they declare a young guy's career over in their first season. I believe you can see the greats in their first season and see something, but others take longer to find a niche and their role... some get to the NBA and frankly are still growing and fairly weak. so I definitely see your point.

I did have apoint that just stats didn't tell me much about a guy bc age is much more signficant earlier in their lives than later. specifically for those same reasons, the player development, body maturity etc... just isn't the same to compare someone 3 years older that early in their careers... scouts have maybe taken that too far and in doing so missed on a whole lot of good talent.

Jokic for example at the time of his draft didn't look like he does now.

[south side spur]

After watching the vid of Kadeem Allen shutting him down and watching his weaknesses vid on DraftExpress, I never gave this guy a chance, but I have since warmed to him

He responded in a major way at the PAC 12 tournament but I can't find the full game. They still lost but he bounced back from their first game vs Arizona...in AZ by the way.

9-19 fgs, 9-9 fts, 31 pts, 5 ast, 6 rebs, 2 stl.

[cd98]

Don't know near enough about this kid to thumb up it or down it. His bio doesn't scream elite player, but if he fails in this league, it doesn't appear that it will be because of lack of work ethic and perseverance.

[99 Problems]

I like both picks tbh. Wouldn't be surprised if the late 76's pick were for us as well. The next few weeks will tell if Bolden etc heads this way as well.

[Mr. Body]

If you haven't yet, watch the full game vs UCLA. He definitely wasn't outclassed by Ball. I think the cynics are going to change their tune after the summer league...I'm thinking it might only take one game actually. Hopefully, we see a lot of Murray AND White together in the back court this summer.

Just saying, Ball is ridiculously overrated.

[picnroll]

He responded in a major way at the PAC 12 tournament but I can't find the full game. They still lost but he bounced back from their first game vs Arizona...in AZ by the way.

9-19 fgs, 9-9 fts, 31 pts, 5 ast, 6 rebs, 2 stl.

and write up said Kadeem Allen was his primary defender. Kid adjusted.

[south side spur]

I'm watching that first game vs AZ and he was more of a traditional point that game. Colorado jumps out early to a healthy lead then Miller calls a timeout and White sits. AZ went on an 11-0 run with White sitting for most of it. He was setting his teammates up in the first half but they just weren't finishing. He didn't force anything on offense.

Defensively, he fell asleep (Danny style) and gave up a couple open 3s but on a fast break he had a great stop demonstrating that vertical on a contest (again, Danny style).In the second half he got beat on a back door cut but had a Simmons like contest AGAIN demonstrating that vertical. It was a tremendous play in my opinion.

What I like about him is he doesn't just run into the screen he recovers but then again some of these screens would be an embarrassment to the LGBT community so I realize he'll be facing tougher.

He had a nice deflection/steal, lost the ball, and then in secondary transition attacked and finished. Soon after, he picked up full court and on the double came away with the steal at half court and accelerated for a transition lay up.

He can penetrate at will although he did have three turnovers forcing the issue including 2 bad passes. Watch the game for yourselves though because I am a homer but I like what I'm seeing. Bill Walton commentary makes it more than tolerable.

[raybies]

I'm watching that first game vs AZ and he was more of a traditional point that game. Colorado jumps out early to a healthy lead then Miller calls a timeout and White sits. AZ went on an 11-0 run with White sitting for most of it. He was setting his teammates up in the first half but they just weren't finishing. He didn't force anything on offense.

Defensively, he fell asleep (Danny style) and gave up a couple open 3s but on a fast break he had a great stop demonstrating that vertical on a contest (again, Danny style).In the second half he got beat on a back door cut but had a Simmons like contest AGAIN demonstrating that vertical. It was a tremendous play in my opinion.

What I like about him is he doesn't just run into the screen he recovers but then again some of these screens would be an embarrassment to the LGBT community so I realize he'll be facing tougher.

He had a nice deflection/steal, lost the ball, and then in secondary transition attacked and finished. Soon after, he picked up full court and on the double came away with the steal at half court and accelerated for a transition lay up.

He can penetrate at will although he did have three turnovers forcing the issue including 2 bad passes. Watch the game for yourselves though because I am a homer but I like what I'm seeing. Bill Walton commentary makes it more than tolerable.
Dope. I'm watching the UCLA game.

Some Notes:

He has a deceptive first step thanks to a slight hesitation. I haven't seen him ISO yet. It's either a pick and roll or a pump fake on a close out and a drive.

He did not have a lot of talent around him at Colorado. The way he probes the screen and role, I think if he had a finishing big, he could be very dangerous.

He is very unselfish and is pretty much a system player. I think this is a great situation for him.

He is a very effective shooter. All his shots look like they have a chance. He's got a nice stroke.

He shows great anticipation on D imo and I think that's why he averaged a block per game. He plays really well positionally and puts his body in the right place.

He's really good about drawing fouls on drives. He doesn't shy away from contact but instead initiates it.

[GSH]

My comparison to Kyle was based on watching a game, not highlights. Just one game for now, I'll watch more.

But when he was handling in the pick and roll, I saw a strong resemblance to Anderson. Patient, under control, measured ... Not too much burst.

Just off that one game, I would say his change of speeds was from average to slow, whereas Kyle shifts speeds from slow to slower to glacial to petrifaction.


I wasn't trying to beat you up over it. Just saying that there's only so much similarity you can have between two players who are that physically different, and playing different positions. I have to watch the way I word things.

Kyle is a big boy. If he hits the weight room this offseason, and gets stronger, I haven't give up on him at all. But if you can't be quick (and he isn't) you really do need to be strong.

I haven't said it, but I'm not crazy about the fact that they refer to White is a combo guard. I've come to really, really hate combo guards. I used to get really excited, because of all the potential. But over many years of watching them come and go, I've sort of decided that the only combo guards that really work out are the ones that are already clear star-level talents when they arrive. The other ones, we keep hoping will live up to all that potential. But mostly, they wind up being not enough of anything to excel. I really hope White isn't one of those.

[ceperez]

Yeah I was coming at you :lol from a general Ageism stance. The problem with the laws of the basketball universe today is that college coaches don't really have the time (or inclination? - okay, I won't go there) to coach guys up to the same level of fundamental soundness that the NBA expected in days of yore. NBA coaches also lack the time to really coach guys on fundamentals due to the rigors of the NBA schedule. So, it takes most of those freshmen coming into the NBA about 2-3 more years to really get to a point where they are strong contributors - almost the same length of time they would have spent in college. So, the players will receive compensation, which they will not receive in college, but the burden of player development falls more on pro coaches. They have very expensive on-the-job trainees, many of whom will wash out. And are most pro coaches really capable of teaching basketball fundamentals - player development? You think Pringles would be a good guy to teach good basketball skills?

I agree. Most draft picks are wasted training sophomores to improve their game. The game is so complex these days that most of these players just don't have the experience to know what to do on the court.

It is almost becoming like the NFL where you can find talent almost everywhere and the best athletes don't necessarily translate.

[ceperez]

Dope. I'm watching the UCLA game.

Some Notes:

He has a deceptive first step thanks to a slight hesitation. I haven't seen him ISO yet. It's either a pick and roll or a pump fake on a close out and a drive.

He did not have a lot of talent around him at Colorado. The way he probes the screen and role, I think if he had a finishing big, he could be very dangerous.

He is very unselfish and is pretty much a system player. I think this is a great situation for him.

He is a very effective shooter. All his shots look like they have a chance. He's got a nice stroke.

He shows great anticipation on D imo and I think that's why he averaged a block per game. He plays really well positionally and puts his body in the right place.

He's really good about drawing fouls on drives. He doesn't shy away from contact but instead initiates it.

Great notes. He does know how to navigate in traffic.

What concerns me is that he doesn't have the speed or athleticism to beat his man on single coverage.

Howver, he's got a good shot and can shoot off the dribble.

[cutewizard]

John Stockton lite!

[picnroll]

Anyone who doesnt like White at 29 should watch tape on another combo guard, Luke Kinnard, taking at number 12 by the Pistons. Unless Kinnard's outside shooting is significantly better than White's there is absolutely no metric where Kinnard is better, offense or defense. Even shooting White has a quicker one motion shot, Curry like, while Kinnard's is a slower two motion. I didn't look at Kinnard's pre-draft because he wasn't in the Spurs range but I would be very unhappy if they'd ended up with him somehow.

[Mr. Body]

Anyone who doesnt like White at 29 should watch tape on another combo guard, Luke Kinnard, taking at number 12 by the Pistons. Unless Kinnard's outside shooting is significantly better than White's there is absolutely no metric where Kinnard is better, offense or defense. Even shooting White has a quicker one motion shot, Curry like, while Kinnard's is a slower two motion. I didn't look at Kinnard's pre-draft because he wasn't in the Spurs range but I would be very unhappy if they'd ended up with him somehow.

If White went to Duke he would have been picked at #10, even at his age.

[raybies]

If White went to Duke he would have been picked at #10, even at his age.
Yeah, I wonder why he wasn't a late lottery pick like McCollum for example. My guess is because he came out of nowhere and didn't have previous signature games to build status.

But it I love how he just lets the game come to him.

[Maddog]

Anyone who doesnt like White at 29 should watch tape on another combo guard, Luke Kinnard, taking at number 12 by the Pistons. Unless Kinnard's outside shooting is significantly better than White's there is absolutely no metric where Kinnard is better, offense or defense. Even shooting White has a quicker one motion shot, Curry like, while Kinnard's is a slower two motion. I didn't look at Kinnard's pre-draft because he wasn't in the Spurs range but I would be very unhappy if they'd ended up with him somehow.
The biggest question marks NBA people have about Kennard undoubtedly revolve around his defense. He has an unappealing combination of short arms, average lateral quickness, and a just-decent frame that already puts him at a significant disadvantage right off the bat. He - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luke-Kennard-72914/ ©DraftExpress



When you look at it objectively, Kennard is more of a question mark,
Count me as a yes
He has a quick release and a determined attitude.

[picnroll]

The biggest question marks NBA people have about Kennard undoubtedly revolve around his defense. He has an unappealing combination of short arms, average lateral quickness, and a just-decent frame that already puts him at a significant disadvantage right off the bat. He - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luke-Kennard-72914/ ©DraftExpress



When you look at it objectively, Kennard is more of a question mark,
Count me as a yes
He has a quick release and a determined attitude.
On offense to an even greater degree Kinnard cannot turn the corner, he's more dependent on others to create a shot for him, his passing, vision and ability to deliver the ball, greater dependence on his right hand, less guile at the basket and his handles don't appear to measure up to White's.

[MaNu4Tres]

On offense to an even greater degree Kinnard cannot turn the corner, he's more dependent on others to create a shot for him, his passing, vision and ability to deliver the ball, greater dependence on his right hand, less guile at the basket and his handles don't appear to measure up to White's.

Kennard at 12 was such a terrible pick. Blossomgame will be more valuable than Kennard when the dust settles.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Underwhelming pick, however, after seeing him play I really don't see the issues described in the mock drafts about him - athleticism, low shooting point, slow release, etc. He seems like a guy who's not well known and thus most of what's written about him can be taken with a grain of salt.

What I see is that he's long, has a 8'6 standing reach which is impressive, especially compared to some similar players taken much earlier, like Donovan Mitchell, for example. Klay Thompson's is only an inch longer. He's strong and his athleticism is actually good, not bad. No idea where the bad athleticism thing comes from. His shot is smooth and he has all the tools to be a good defender. Him and Murray would make a very nice combination, especially if Murray improves his spot up shooting, can't wait to see them play in summer league. I see a lot of Wes Matthews potential in him.

[Mr. Body]

Kennard at 12 was such a terrible pick. Blossomgame will be more valuable than Kennard when the dust settles.

There's only one white boy shooter that's turned out good from Duke in the NBA and that's Reddick and that's because he busted his ass. Kennard's gonna be shit.

[Mr. Body]

Underwhelming pick, however, after seeing him play I really don't see the issues described in the mock drafts about him - athleticism, low shooting point, slow release, etc. He seems like a guy who's not well known and thus most of what's written about him can be taken with a grain of salt.

What I see is that he's long, has a 8'6 standing reach which is impressive, especially compared to some similar players taken much earlier, like Donovan Mitchell, for example. Klay Thompson's is only an inch longer. He's strong and his athleticism is actually good, not bad. No idea where the bad athleticism thing comes from. His shot is smooth and he has all the tools to be a good defender. Him and Murray would make a very nice combination, especially if Murray improves his spot up shooting, can't wait to see them play in summer league. I see a lot of Wes Matthews potential in him.

He's underwhelming simply because the ESPN hype machine didn't talk him up. They chat up shitty players who we'll never hear from again.

[raybies]

Kennard at 12 was such a terrible pick. Blossomgame will be more valuable than Kennard when the dust settles.
Another McDermott imo

[MaNu4Tres]

Another McDermott imo

I think a shorter Babbitt is more accurate. McDermott > and I'm not a fan of McDermott.

[picnroll]

Listening to Danny Leroux (massive GS homer who covers that team) on the Realgm podcast. He asked Sam Vencenie of Sporting News, a big NBA draft nerd, who his favorite pick from 16 to 30 was. Vencenie said Derrick White. He had White at 16 on his board.

[horsielove]

i'm seeing a shade of belineli with a bit of defense.

[Mr. Body]

Listening to Danny Leroux (massive GS homer who covers that team) on the Realgm podcast. He asked Sam Vencenie of Sporting News, a big NBA draft nerd, who his favorite pick from 16 to 30 was. Vencenie said Derrick White. He had White at 16 on his board.

I think he's already a top 16 pick. I don't mean this as a homer, not at all. It's just guaranteed half these one-and-done freshmen are going to crap out quickly especially the big men.

[pad300]

Alright, just to put my 2 cents in, I figure that White should be OK. I think he will at least be a rotation player (backup guard). Potentially could be a starter in the right circumstance - which we kind of have, what with Kawhi handling the ball so much.

[rudwick]

Replacement for Manu role off the bench

[Seventyniner]

I think he's already a top 16 pick. I don't mean this as a homer, not at all. It's just guaranteed half these one-and-done freshmen are going to crap out quickly especially the big men.

I agree that it's likely White will be one of the 16 best players in this draft when all is said and done, but you can't fault some organizations for swinging for the fences: it's impossible to tell at this point which of the players above White will be busts.

[AFBlue]

I think the Brogdon comps are off-base. About the only thing they have in common is their age. Brogdon hung his hat on defense, while White will differentiate as a shooter. I see more Grevius Vasquez, which is a compliment. Big guard, does a lot of things well. He'll need to get comfortable playing off the ball more, but he has the tools to be a good role player.

[Mr. Body]

I think the Brogdon comps are off-base. About the only thing they have in common is their age. Brogdon hung his hat on defense, while White will differentiate as a shooter. I see more Grevius Vasquez, which is a compliment. Big guard, does a lot of things well. He'll need to get comfortable playing off the ball more, but he has the tools to be a good role player.

White was one of the best defenders in the country.

[024]

Spurs need more consistent shooters so White might be able to fit the bill. Can't question his work ethic that's fore sure. With parker out and the questionable statuses of Ginolbili, Simmons, mills, and green, Spurs need more guards. But technically Spurs also need more wings and bigs too.

Overall, I think he can develop into a decent backup combo guard the Spurs always wanted and can play next to Murray too. At least he has more athleticism than Anderson.