Danny Green and the 3pt shot.

[Sigz]

One thing that I could just never understand is how Danny Green became so average at hitting the 3pt shot.

Here's a guy who broke the NBA Finals record, to a guy who could barely hit the broad side of the barn.

Honestly, what happened? Is shot just looks broke.

[palangi]

One thing that I could just never understand is how Danny Green became so average at hitting the 3pt shot.

Here's a guy who broke the NBA Finals record, to a guy who could barely hit the broad side of the barn.

Honestly, what happened? Is shot just looks broke.

Teams learned to forced him off his spot. He is not as good if he has to move.

[TheGreatYacht]

Too much clubbing and going on vacation

[coachmac87]

I think him not having a move for years to counter a close out is more troubling tbh

[palangi]

Too much clubbing and going on vacation

There is truth in here. He hasn't seemed to progress his game.

[Splits]

I know right? Shot fucking 38% last season.

[Leetonidas]

Too much clubbing and going on vacation

[cjw]

He's 36.2% over the past two years in the regular season and playoffs. Slightly above league average of 35.8% last year. Also, that's an eFG% of 54.3% which is well above the league average of 51.4% and would be fourth among all teams.

So while he's regressed (better last season than year before though) it's still valuable to have someone who shoots at least at league average from three and spaces the floor.

[coachmac87]

He's 36.2% over the past two years in the regular season and playoffs. Slightly above league average of 35.8% last year. Also, that's an eFG% of 54.3% which is well above the league average of 51.4% and would be fourth among all teams.

So while he's regressed (better last season than year before though) it's still valuable to have someone who shoots at least at league average from three and spaces the floor.


But the problem is offensively he does literally nothing else..doesn't draw fouls, create for himself or others...he's just an average catch and shoot guy..

[palangi]

But the problem is offensively he does literally nothing else..doesn't draw fouls, create for himself or others...he's just an average catch and shoot guy..

Exactly he is a1 trick pony and becoming very average at that.

[HarlemHeat37]

Change of system(Spurs were bottom 5 in the league at created drive and dish 3s, they need creators more than role players nowadays) + the high variance nature of the 3-point shot(it's emphasized with Danny because he doesn't do anything but shoot 3s)

There's literally nothing that supports the idea that teams are running him off the line, all the data says otherwise, and it's asinine to think that it took NBA teams 4 years to learn that a high-profile 3-point shooter doesn't do anything else on offense:lol

[dabom]

Porker getting old.

[Mikeanaro]

System player, besides everybody was looking good during 2013-2014 like it happens to good teams so role players respond to the main guys groove.
Pop asked DG to do more things than he is capable of, and here is the result.

[palangi]

Change of system(Spurs were bottom 5 in the league at created drive and dish 3s, they need creators more than role players nowadays) + the high variance nature of the 3-point shot(it's emphasized with Danny because he doesn't do anything but shoot 3s)

There's literally nothing that supports the idea that teams are running him off the line, all the data says otherwise, and it's asinine to think that it took NBA teams 4 years to learn that a high-profile 3-point shooter doesn't do anything else on offense:lol

Yeah you're right is everybody else fault on the team? Green is progressing nicely. If only there was more white Americans for you to blame it on.

[coachmac87]

Change of system(Spurs were bottom 5 in the league at created drive and dish 3s, they need creators more than role players nowadays) + the high variance nature of the 3-point shot(it's emphasized with Danny because he doesn't do anything but shoot 3s)

There's literally nothing that supports the idea that teams are running him off the line, all the data says otherwise, and it's asinine to think that it took NBA teams 4 years to learn that a high-profile 3-point shooter doesn't do anything else on offense:lol

First part of your statement is true but he's regressed from an elite shooter to an average shooter..Green could get away with his deficiencies when you're elite...but now that he's average he's expendable because like you said in the first statement..Spurs need versatile players

[UZER]

But the problem is offensively he does literally nothing else..doesn't draw fouls, create for himself or others...he's just an average catch and shoot guy..


Exactly he is a1 trick pony and becoming very average at that.

It's like he's a white guy.

[HarlemHeat37]

First part of your statement is true but he's regressed from an elite shooter to an average shooter..Green could get away with his deficiencies when you're elite...but now that he's average he's expendable because like you said in the first statement..Spurs need versatile players

I agree, I was just pointing out why Green is struggling from 3, not whether the Spurs should keep him or not..

He's one of my favorites Spurs ever, but I've agreed since last year that he isn't a good fit with the current Spurs that barely have playmakers that can hide his deficiencies like Parker/Ginobili used to(also why you've seen guys like Porter and Crowder have breakout seasons with the emergence of Wall and Thomas, for example)..Spurs need a shot creator at the 2, a guy who can shoot and do a little bit more..

Not just that, but once Aldridge joined the team, Green no longer got consistent touches like he did in the past with the Spurs well-balanced offense..his usage rate fell off a cliff following his breakout 2015 season where he posted nearly 18% usage..

[SpurPadre]

A certain teammate put teams on blast for leaving him open all the time

[TimDunkem]

Agree with HH. For all the talk about how valuable his ever declining defense is to the team, he literally brings nothing else.

A one trick pony. A declining defender. Offensively inept in every way. Unable to make plays or break down a defense. Bow-legged and below average athletically.

He is just not a good fit for this team anymore. Yes, he'll have a good game now and then, but so do most NBA players.

[cd021]

But the problem is offensively he does literally nothing else..doesn't draw fouls, create for himself or others...he's just an average catch and shoot guy..

There is the value of spacing, teams are reluctant to leave him open. Sub Simmons into the starting line up last season and the spacing would be much different with Parker, Simmons, Leonard, LMA, Dedmon.

He doesn't do much else on offense besides being a 3pt threat and the gravity he commands.

[coachmac87]

There is the value of spacing, teams are reluctant to leave him open. Sub Simmons into the starting line up last season and the spacing would be much different with Parker, Simmons, Leonard, LMA, Dedmon.

He doesn't do much else on offense besides being a 3pt threat and the gravity he commands.

Sure. But as some have said..Spurs need more than that on offense right now..and if Danny expanded his game some instead of regressing he wouldn't be possibly moved.. I don't really want him gone but I'd understand why if the Spurs do

[cd021]

I really like Green, despite my defending him I wouldn't be opposed to moving him for assets and cap space to Philly for Pasecniks, Bolden, and Lessort

[Play Boban]

One thing that I could just never understand is how Danny Green became so average at hitting the 3pt shot.

Here's a guy who broke the NBA Finals record, to a guy who could barely hit the broad side of the barn.

Honestly, what happened? Is shot just looks broke.
Games 6 and 7 of the NBA Finals happened, when he shot 1 for a million tbh.

[Snaq O'Meal]

One thing that I could just never understand is how Danny Green became so average at hitting the 3pt shot.

Here's a guy who broke the NBA Finals record, to a guy who could barely hit the broad side of the barn.

Honestly, what happened? Is shot just looks broke.

The spacing was screwed. Instead of having a no. 21 in the low post, the Spurs have a no. 12.

[Down Under]

I agree, I was just pointing out why Green is struggling from 3, not whether the Spurs should keep him or not..

He's one of my favorites Spurs ever, but I've agreed since last year that he isn't a good fit with the current Spurs that barely have playmakers that can hide his deficiencies like Parker/Ginobili used to(also why you've seen guys like Porter and Crowder have breakout seasons with the emergence of Wall and Thomas, for example)..Spurs need a shot creator at the 2, a guy who can shoot and do a little bit more..

Not just that, but once Aldridge joined the team, Green no longer got consistent touches like he did in the past with the Spurs well-balanced offense..his usage rate fell off a cliff following his breakout 2015 season where he posted nearly 18% usage..
This is true, but God it's hard to get to let go of 2 way players, even if they need a system to do it.

[TimDunkem]

Danny Green isn't a true 2-way player as he only does one thing on offense and his defense is declining.

[MultiTroll]

Seems like he refused to break down tape and work on his driving and midrange game.
Too busy at beach and clubbing while Kawhi is in San Diego putting in Duncan type workouts for improvemets?

Or Green simply does not possess the skills to put ball on floor and not be a disaster.

Either way hasta la vista. This over-loyalty noise has cost Spurs Championships.

[tholdren]

I know right? Shot fucking 38% last season.

I shot that in high school, not impressive when he has 1 offensive job.

[TimDunkem]

Seems like he refused to break down tape and work on his driving and midrange game.
Too busy at beach and clubbing while Kawhi is in San Diego putting in Duncan type workouts for improvemets?

Or Green simply does not possess the skills to put ball on floor and not be a disaster.

Either way hasta la vista. This over-loyalty noise has cost Spurs Championships.
I don't remember the last time I saw Danny post something from the gym right after the season ended.

I get wanting to unwind and all that, but the optics aren't good. He seemingly does nothing but party and comes back every year the same declining player, having added absolutely nothing to his game.

[tholdren]

Danny Green isn't a true 2-way player as he only does one thing on offense and his defense is declining.

I agree with most of that, but think that his issue revolves around work ethic and intensity rather than anything. Dude seemed to gain instinct on transition d, but packed it in during some half court isos and sometimes help d.

I dont get that with him. He had 3 or 4 chances to bounce back in the league from getting the boot. How is effort an issue?

[TimDunkem]

Honestly, I think he peaked, he knows it, and he's just going through the motions until he's kicked out of the league, tbh. Otherwise, I can't fathom how a guy goes this long without learning to run and dribble at the same time.

[DMC]

His 3 suffers because other than KL no one else can defend in transition or just about any other offensive push. Pop is asking KL and Danny to basically be the entire defense. Simmons shows some signs, but who else can defend for shit? Not LMA, not Patty, not Tony, Manu is a swiper and cheats off his man to try to play passing lanes (and gets some good blocks now and then). Neither Pau Gasol nor David Lee can defend for shit.

Plus, Danny is no longer thinking 3pt shot 100%. Now he's second guessing and thinking he should put the ball on the floor. This is the other side of the sword where trainers and coaches actually screw up a good thing, like they did with Blair when he stopped rebounding so well because they were trying to keep him out of foul trouble. It basically killed his game. They are killing Danny's game by making him think he can develop handles and get to the rim.

[raybies]

His 3 suffers because other than KL no one else can defend in transition or just about any other offensive push. Pop is asking KL and Danny to basically be the entire defense. Simmons shows some signs, but who else can defend for shit? Not LMA, not Patty, not Tony, Manu is a swiper and cheats off his man to try to play passing lanes (and gets some good blocks now and then). Neither Pau Gasol nor David Lee can defend for shit.

Plus, Danny is no longer thinking 3pt shot 100%. Now he's second guessing and thinking he should put the ball on the floor. This is the other side of the sword where trainers and coaches actually screw up a good thing, like they did with Blair when he stopped rebounding so well because they were trying to keep him out of foul trouble. It basically killed his game. They are killing Danny's game by making him think he can develop handles and get to the rim.
Good points. He should revert back to just 3 and D. Before he use to just shoot the three or pass it back out. Now he tries to dribble drive after the closeout which has some really weird results. On one end he has some surprising finishes and on the other we have the disatraus plays where he has the ball in his hands at the end of the shot clock. Gah, how i hate those possessions.

[palangi]

His 3 suffers because other than KL no one else can defend in transition or just about any other offensive push. Pop is asking KL and Danny to basically be the entire defense. Simmons shows some signs, but who else can defend for shit? Not LMA, not Patty, not Tony, Manu is a swiper and cheats off his man to try to play passing lanes (and gets some good blocks now and then). Neither Pau Gasol nor David Lee can defend for shit.

Plus, Danny is no longer thinking 3pt shot 100%. Now he's second guessing and thinking he should put the ball on the floor. This is the other side of the sword where trainers and coaches actually screw up a good thing, like they did with Blair when he stopped rebounding so well because they were trying to keep him out of foul trouble. It basically killed his game. They are killing Danny's game by making him think he can develop handles and get to the rim.

Heaven forbid danny developed himself into a basketball player. I can't believe the excuses some make for him. His shot suffered because had to play transition defense too?

[DMC]

Heaven forbid danny developed himself into a basketball player. I can't believe the excuses some make for him. His shot suffered because had to play transition defense too?

Do you understand anything about basketball?

You look at Danny when he was hitting the 3 well, he was basically a spot up shooter. He couldn't even dribble to the rim without turning it over most of the time. Now he's trying to take guys off the dribble, so that hesitation, should I shoot the 3 or drive to the rim... that changes something about his shot. Some shooters, great shooters, you cannot change anything about their shots without negatively impacting their stats.

Plus the Spurs don't move the ball as well as they used to, so Danny doesn't get wide open looks and when he does, he spends too much time sizing up the shot. He used to just let it fly. Tim had the same problem - he'd miss shots he had all day to take but hit shots he had to release in a hurry. Too cerebral to be a great shooter, since shooting is a muscle memory and almost involuntary response to having the ball in certain situations. It's like catching a ball without watching it come to you. You just know where you hands are and the arc of the ball and the speed, and you don't need to do the math. Danny is doing the math.

So yes, playing constant defense causes tired legs, causes a lot of things. That's why people like Steph don't play much defense. It's why guys like Lebron don't do well in the 4th quarter most of the time. NBA2K players think it's choking, but something about the player has changed just enough to effect the percentages. These guys are at their pinnacles, basically the best they can ever be, so it's all downhill from there.

[thekingrobert]

I shot that in high school, not impressive when he has 1 offensive job.
High school line is like a free throw in the NBA that doesn't count

[kobyz]

His shot mechanics are ugly, can't be consistent with that..,

[tholdren]

High school line is like a free throw in the NBA that doesn't count

Lol. Right

[palangi]

Do you understand anything about basketball?

You look at Danny when he was hitting the 3 well, he was basically a spot up shooter. He couldn't even dribble to the rim without turning it over most of the time. Now he's trying to take guys off the dribble, so that hesitation, should I shoot the 3 or drive to the rim... that changes something about his shot. Some shooters, great shooters, you cannot change anything about their shots without negatively impacting their stats.

Plus the Spurs don't move the ball as well as they used to, so Danny doesn't get wide open looks and when he does, he spends too much time sizing up the shot. He used to just let it fly. Tim had the same problem - he'd miss shots he had all day to take but hit shots he had to release in a hurry. Too cerebral to be a great shooter, since shooting is a muscle memory and almost involuntary response to having the ball in certain situations. It's like catching a ball without watching it come to you. You just know where you hands are and the arc of the ball and the speed, and you don't need to do the math. Danny is doing the math.

So yes, playing constant defense causes tired legs, causes a lot of things. That's why people like Steph don't play much defense. It's why guys like Lebron don't do well in the 4th quarter most of the time. NBA2K players think it's choking, but something about the player has changed just enough to effect the percentages. These guys are at their pinnacles, basically the best they can ever be, so it's all downhill from there.

And that was all fine when he first began. But at some pointment the excuses for him need to stop. How has he not developed at all in any area.
I'm sorry if expecting a professional to develop his game is not knowing basketball. And then watching said professional go from a that as a shooter to more average.

Yep I know nothing and you know everything.

[TimDunkem]

DMC is a dumb fuck. Ignore him.

[buttsR4rebounding]

[QUOTE=TimDunkem;9061549]Agree with HH. For all the talk about how valuable his ever declining defense is to the team, he literally brings nothing else.

A one trick pony. A declining defender. Offensively inept in every way. Unable to make plays or break down a defense. Bow


Evidently the rest of the NBA disagrees as he was just named All Defensive 2nd team.

[TimDunkem]

That doesn't prove he isn't declining. :lol

[coachmac87]

His 3 suffers because other than KL no one else can defend in transition or just about any other offensive push. Pop is asking KL and Danny to basically be the entire defense. Simmons shows some signs, but who else can defend for shit? Not LMA, not Patty, not Tony, Manu is a swiper and cheats off his man to try to play passing lanes (and gets some good blocks now and then). Neither Pau Gasol nor David Lee can defend for shit.

Plus, Danny is no longer thinking 3pt shot 100%. Now he's second guessing and thinking he should put the ball on the floor. This is the other side of the sword where trainers and coaches actually screw up a good thing, like they did with Blair when he stopped rebounding so well because they were trying to keep him out of foul trouble. It basically killed his game. They are killing Danny's game by making him think he can develop handles and get to the rim.


The biggest beef or problem is Danny never countered the league adapting to him....he's terrified to dribble he'd rather hold on the ball on a close out and wait for defender to fly by and then lean forward and launch an off balance shot..

It blows my mind as a "shooter" he's never added a pump fake 1-2 dribble pull up or side step..which is what Patty does allllllll the time.

[palangi]

.

[palangi]

[QUOTE=TimDunkem;9061549]Agree with HH. For all the talk about how valuable his ever declining defense is to the team, he literally brings nothing else.

A one trick pony. A declining defender. Offensively inept in every way. Unable to make plays or break down a defense. Bow


Evidently the rest of the NBA disagrees as he was just named All Defensive 2nd team.

Could be more reputation than merit too?

[rastaspur]

He's is a 3 and d player and not a two way player. Why someone would call him a two way player is beyond me.

He has more holes in his offensive game than a spaghetti strainer. He literally does one thing, shoot the three.