CP3 traded to Rockets

[rastaspur]

Dunno if that blurb about why Paul chose Houston over SA is true. But if so, it essentially said that he didn't like Pop trying to get rid of LMA and keep Parker. That flies in the face of Tony being a major selling point for him. More than anything, that would be something for which Pop deserves criticism.

Yep.

I laid that hypothetical out a week ago. Paul may not want to come if they hang on to parker and aren't in a position to make changes to benefit the team.

[gambit1990]

Dunno if that blurb about why Paul chose Houston over SA is true. But if so, it essentially said that he didn't like Pop trying to get rid of LMA and keep Parker. That flies in the face of Tony being a major selling point for him. More than anything, that would be something for which Pop deserves criticism.

Paul may not want to come if they hang on to parker and aren't in a position to make changes to benefit the team.
there were reports that cp3 had an issue with doc rivers showing austin favoritism. and doc didn't want to send his son to ny for melo.

pop thinks of tony as a son... and wouldn't trade him to make the team better either.

https://media.tenor.com/images/8c4e72dde14da4388f49805be18e03d6/tenor.gif



meanwhile, morey's fine with making moves.

[DPG21920]

there were reports that cp3 had an issue with doc rivers showing austin favoritism. and doc didn't want to send his son to ny for melo.

pop thinks of tony as a son... and wouldn't trade him to make the team better either.

https://media.tenor.com/images/8c4e72dde14da4388f49805be18e03d6/tenor.gif



meanwhile, morey's fine with making moves.

Morey has always been fine making moves; the question I'm asking you is who has had more success in the past 3, 5 or even 10 years?

Which team, HOU or SA had to make moves to become a WCF team for a shot at GS?

[gambit1990]

Morey has always been fine making moves; the question I'm asking you is who has had more success in the past 3, 5 or even 10 years?

Which team, HOU or SA had to make moves to become a WCF team for a shot at GS?
what you're asking isn't at all relevant to the point i made.

morey will make will try to make his team better at any costs.

doc and pop will... as long as it doesn't involve austin/tony. not trying to beat a dead horse but tony's contract is a hinderance.

[BSfromTX]

CP3 will be injured more often in that system. Pringles will run him into the ground

[DPG21920]

what you're asking isn't at all relevant to the point i made.

morey will make will try to make his team better at any costs.

doc and pop will... as long as it doesn't involve austin/tony. not trying to beat a dead horse but tony's contract is a hinderance.

Its very relevant. Making moves does not in itself make the team better. If it did, Morey's teams would be better than SA and they aren't.

Sometimes the right move is a small move and continuity. Drafting well. Etc..Its not fantasy basketball and just about trades.

You aren't making any sense in trying to draw that weird parallel even though we all know that TP's contract *could* be hindering the Spurs.

It's only hindering if a free agent truly says yes and SA can't move him which remains to be seen.

[bic50]

CP3 will be injured more often in that system. Pringles will run him into the ground
I don't know about that considering harden will be there to share the load with him.

[GSH]

CP3 will be injured more often in that system. Pringles will run him into the ground


There's a real possibility of that. CP3 has been in the league 12 years, and 5 of those he's missed 18 games or more. And D'Antoni teams only run at one speed.

[ducks]

I'll never believe that Houston is a real contender until I see it, but you'd have to be a delusional homer to ignore that they improved their roster, tbh..they lost a replaceable role player(Beverley) and the easiest type of player to find in the NBA(Lou Williams, volume shooting, no D type) in exchange for a top 3 PG..

I get it, though..there were many here arguing that the Warriors were making a mistake by signing Durant and losing scrubs, despite Durant being a far more natural fit with GS than Paul is with Houston:lol
they lost their best d player

[HarlemHeat37]

they lost their best d player

The best defensive PG in the NBA is still just a PG, limited impact in today's league..

[Big Empty]

What would it take for the Rockets to face the Warriors in the 2nd round instead the Spurs? Is this even possible? Would be a shootout.

[Dex]

The best defensive PG in the NBA is still just a PG, limited impact in today's league..

Exactly. The "best defensive PG in the NBA" was getting torched by 35-year old Tony Parker before he went down, and couldn't even contain single-threat Patty Mills and a rookie.

[Dex]

What would it take for the Rockets to face the Warriors in the 2nd round instead the Spurs? Is this even possible? Would be a shootout.

Assuming Golden State will be the 1-seed again (fair assumption), Rockets would have to finish either 4th-5th, and the cards would have to play out right.

[gambit1990]

the rockets are gonna tear it up. can't wait to see them play. two of the best passers in the league on the same team... in dantoni's system... gonna be wild.
rockets 13-0 in games cp3 has played.


adding an all time great PG that's hungry to win and some people are here like, "i don't see how it's gonna work."

https://media2.giphy.com/media/YoKDHux783GY8/giphy.gif

[hater]

Good news. Makes Rubio more likely.

:lmao this post :lol

[LkrFan]

Assuming Golden State will be the 1-seed again (fair assumption), Rockets would have to finish either 4th-5th, and the cards would have to play out right.

:lol

[Budkin]

rockets 13-0 in games cp3 has played.

Good call gambit. Wished we could have gotten him.

[gambit1990]

Good call gambit. Wished we could have gotten him.
:toast


Houston is 14-0 with Paul, breaking a tie with Dennis Rodman of the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls for the most consecutive victories by a starter to begin a tenure with a new team, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

[Ice009]

Wow, the Spurs had a hand in both those records. They traded Rodman to the Bulls and the Spurs didn't do enough to get Paul. He said there was uncertainty with Pop staying on and the Aldridge situation was unsettling to him.

[benefactor]

Either one of them can play off the ball more. I'm sure they'll figure it out.


They likely won't, but we'll agree to disagree.
Looking like they have. I'll take my crow fried with corn on the cob.

[daslicer]

He's playing great with Harden. I didn't think both could co-exist but they have proven me wrong. This has to be the first time in NBA history where a team has had 2 players averaging over 9 assists game. IF he takes out the Spurs or Warriors during the playoffs than I will eat crow.

[daslicer]

Wow, the Spurs had a hand in both those records. They traded Rodman to the Bulls and the Spurs didn't do enough to get Paul. He said there was uncertainty with Pop staying on and the Aldridge situation was unsettling to him.

Nobody wanted to touch Rodman in the summer of '95 outside of bulls. CP3 was never going to come here. Houston is bigger market than SA thus making it more attractive and he would not have come here out of respect for Parker. They are both very good friends and I couldn't see him wanting to take Parker's spot while being on the same team. Spurs never had a chance with him much like they had no chance with Durant in the summer of '16. Don't be naive and assume a star player is coming to SA because you here the players representatives throughout SA as one of their possible destinations. That's just a bargaining tool used to scare other teams into signing the player quicker.

[Ice009]

Nobody wanted to touch Rodman in the summer of '95 outside of bulls. CP3 was never going to come here. Houston is bigger market than SA thus making it more attractive and he would not have come here out of respect for Parker. They are both very good friends and I couldn't see him wanting to take Parker's spot while being on the same team. Spurs never had a chance with him much like they had no chance with Durant in the summer of '16. Don't be naive and assume a star player is coming to SA because you here the players representatives throughout SA as one of their possible destinations. That's just a bargaining tool used to scare other teams into signing the player quicker.

I thought that too, but I saw a video of him discussing his free agency with a friend of his. In that video, it seems like the Spurs were a legit consideration. Have you seen that video? It was an older guy that he was discussing it with, but I can't remember what line of work he was in.

[daslicer]

I thought that too, but I saw a video of him discussing his free agency with a friend of his. In that video, it seems like the Spurs were a legit consideration. Have you seen that video? It was an older guy that he was discussing it with, but I can't remember what line of work he was in.

I didn't see the clip but since he was on camera I wouldn't take it seriously because it was probably all for show. A lot of guys express love for Pop and Spurs but they never come here. I can guarantee you that if the Cavs lose again in the Finals this year to the Warriors that we will here Lebron's people leak out the Spurs as one of the possible teams that Lebron wants to play for. Just watch how Lebron will then sign with Houston or some other team. Like I said before throwing the Spurs name out in FA discussions is a great bargaining tool to scare rival teams into signing the player immediately.

[YGWHI]

He's playing great with Harden. I didn't think both could co-exist but they have proven me wrong. This has to be the first time in NBA history where a team has had 2 players averaging over 9 assists game. IF he takes out the Spurs or Warriors during the playoffs than I will eat crow.
I thought the same thing. I expected a collapse of personalities on court but they started great, I guess this long winning streak has helped them to mesh.

But I still wonder how they would look after having a couple of bad loses in playoffs

[daslicer]

I thought the same thing. I expected a collapse of personalities on court but they started to win quickly, I guess this long winning streak has helped them to mesh.

But I still wonder how they would look after having a couple of bad loses in playoffs

Yup I agree that's why I'm not sold on them yet considering both Harden and CP3 have a history of choking and melting when faced with adversity during the playoffs.

[DAF86]

Never wanted him, as I've been saying for months..too old and his style of play helps role players but hurts other stars..can't even imagine how 2 of the 3 most ball-dominant players in the league will fit together..

One of harlems worst takes, tbh. This is probably why he offed himself, imho.

[daslicer]

One of harlems worst takes, tbh. This is probably why he offed himself, imho.

I never respected Harlem but TBH I think the majority of people not just on ST but fans on other basketball forums had the same view point about CP3 on the Rox. It's still unreal how how Harden and CP3 have found a way to co-exist with both of them getting 9 plus assists game. I don't think anybody thought that was possible. D'antoni has done a great job of being able to utilize their strengths and getting them to mesh together.

[DAF86]

Seriously, I can't understand how folks thought this wouldn't work. It's not like they are shitty off ball players that can't shoot for shit. They are both great, complete offensive players that can hurt you in all kind of diferent ways, with or without the ball.

There should have never been any doubt about this thing working, at least for the regular season. Harden's chokeness and Paul's health issues bring questions for the playoffs.

[DAF86]

I never respected Harlem but TBH I think the majority of people not just on ST but fans on other basketball forums had the same view point about CP3 on the Rox. It's still unreal how how Harden and CP3 have found a way to co-exist with both of them getting 9 plus assists game. I don't think anybody thought that was possible. D'antoni has done a great job of being able to utilize their strengths and getting them to mesh together.

Well, if that's true that's just dumb. How can two guys that can do pretty much anything offensively on a basketball court, while not being Kobe type ball-hoggers, not work?

I could understand people thinking two non-shooting threats not working together, or two Kobe type cancers not working together, but Harden and Paul not working together? That's just retarded.

[daslicer]

Well, if that's true that's just dumb. How can two guys that can do pretty much anything offensively on a basketball court, while not being Kobe type ball-hoggers, not work?

I could understand people thinking two non-shooting threats not working together, or two Kobe type cancers not working together, but Harden and Paul not working together? That's just retarded.

No not dumb at all TBH. When in NBA history have you ever seen 2 PG's playing together at the same time. A lot of people did not believe CP3 could play off the ball successfully and defer to Harden since historically he's always had the ball in his hands. What CP3 and Harden are doing is unconventional that's why most people could not envision it. If you saw it working out props to you.

[SAGirl]

Seriously, I can't understand how folks thought this wouldn't work. It's not like they are shitty off ball players that can't shoot for shit. They are both great, complete offensive players that can hurt you in all kind of diferent ways, with or without the ball.

There should have never been any doubt about this thing working, at least for the regular season. Harden's chokeness and Paul's health issues bring questions for the playoffs.
My main concern with CP3 is his age, how injury prone he’s been lately (even started the season that way) and the fact he’d want that megamax into his advanced 30s, but I’d trade you 1 Gasol and 1 Mills for him no problem or a Tony.

For better or worse I think Pop is determined to get the most out the bar of soap and his PG son and there’s no way that replace that talent. It’s going to be like replacing Timmy wth Gasol. As good of a replacement you could find for the late injured version of Tim and yet unlike the original in many ways.

Once Manu retires there will be no other and with Tony is the same. It’s just going to be a different team. I have no idea how they acquire the talent they need from one of the guards spots to catapult the team over the hump again.

[DAF86]

No not dumb at all TBH. When in NBA history have you ever seen 2 PG's playing together at the same time. A lot of people did not believe CP3 could play off the ball successfully and defer to Harden since historically he's always had the ball in his hands. What CP3 and Harden are doing is unconventional that's why most people could not envision it. If you saw it working out props to you.

Two PG's? Harden has been a SG all his career except for one season, c'mon now.

Why are people acting like two ball dominant players have never played together before? Heck, Harden shared a team with Kevin Durant and Russell fucking Westbrook, why did people think he wouldn't be able to share a team with Chris Paul?

Sorry but all that previous talk was indeed retarded and reality proves it.

[daslicer]

Two PG's? Harden has been a SG all his career except for one season, c'mon now.

Why are people acting like two ball dominant players have never played together before? Heck, Harden shared a team with Kevin Durant and Russell fucking Westbrook, why did people think he wouldn't be able to share a team with Chris Paul?

Sorry but all that previous talk was indeed retarded and reality proves it.

Harden was a PG last year in D'Antoni's system. Yes your right about Harden deferring to Durant and Westbrook but it wasn't about Harden deferring in this situation. It was about CP3 deferring to Harden and that's what most people did not believe could happen since CP3 has always been a ball dominant player. There's no history in his career of him having to defer play making duties to another player. Plus there was no history of him playing off the ball. Anyways I'm done with this discussion. Also there's no reason to be a fucking asshole if someone has a different view then yours.

[Gagnrath]

Harden was a PG last year in D'Antoni's system. Yes your right about Harden deferring to Durant and Westbrook but it wasn't about Harden deferring in this situation. It was about CP3 deferring to Harden and that's what most people did not believe could happen since CP3 has always been a ball dominant player. There's no history in his career of him having to defer play making duties to another player. Plus there was no history of him playing off the ball. Anyways I'm done with this discussion. Also there's no reason to be a fucking asshole if someone has a different view then yours.

There were also issues in OKC which kinda pointed to possible sharing issues. Things were a bit less settled about Westbrook being the culprit of the inability to play well with others before this season. I do have to say that I am a bit surprised at how pedestrian George looks with OKC.

[DAF86]

Harden was a PG last year in D'Antoni's system. Yes your right about Harden deferring to Durant and Westbrook but it wasn't about Harden deferring in this situation. It was about CP3 deferring to Harden and that's what most people did not believe could happen since CP3 has always been a ball dominant player. There's no history in his career of him having to defer play making duties to another player. Plus there was no history of him playing off the ball. Anyways I'm done with this discussion. Also there's no reason to be a fucking asshole if someone has a different view then yours.

This is Spurstalk, there's always a reason to be a fucking asshole. :lol

[Phenomanul]

This is Spurstalk, there's always a reason to be a fucking asshole. :lol

Likely a warranted take... BUT


One of harlems worst takes, tbh. This is probably why he offed himself, imho.

That statement is utterly unwarranted... no matter if you hated the guy (likely not the case). To mockingly laugh about someone's death just to make a point is low.

[jermaine]

cp3 gets hurt every yr in the playoffs. This will not change this yr. You can bet money on that!!!

[Brazil]

2017 and D'Antoni system in RS still fooling people around :lmao

[DAF86]

Likely a warranted take... BUT



That statement is utterly unwarranted... no matter if you hated the guy (likely not the case). To mockingly laugh about someone's death just to make a point is low.

I like HarlemHeat37. And I obviously don't really think he's dead, tbh.

[Brazil]

I like HarlemHeat37 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11597). And I obviously don't really think he's dead, tbh.

bro Phenomanul does not think Harlem is dead either

[DAF86]

bro Phenomanul does not think Harlem is dead either

Strange choice of words then:


That statement is utterly unwarranted... no matter if you hated the guy (likely not the case). To mockingly laugh about someone's death just to make a point is low.

[Robz4000]

2017 and D'Antoni system in RS still fooling people around :lmao

[Brazil]

Strange choice of words then:

he should have used the blue front

you should too on your D'Antoni assessment tbh

[DAF86]

he should have used the blue front

you should too on your D'Antoni assessment tbh

What D'antoni assessment?

[raybies]

I thought the same thing. I expected a collapse of personalities on court but they started great, I guess this long winning streak has helped them to mesh.

But I still wonder how they would look after having a couple of bad loses in playoffs
Agreed on the first part. Didn't see it working out. And i feel the same. If they go the same without any adversity during the season and given their history, they could implode. Harden is not a good person as a loser.

I'm expecting an implosion in the playoffs, when they meet the right team. Just can't buy into them. I don't think Harden has changed.

[Brazil]

What D'antoni assessment?

you are not the one jeezing and bragging about the fact harden/paul/d'antoni are awesome and working wonderfully ?

[Brazil]

I believe Harlem take like many others was not really about regular season.. give d'antoni system two great ball handlers, 3 pts shooter and you have a great RS tbh... D'antoni made Felton a 9 apg dude.. play offs gonna be a bit different

[DAF86]

you are not the one jeezing and bragging about the fact harden/paul/d'antoni are awesome and working wonderfully ?

I never said anything about D'antoni. All I'm saying is that adding Paul was obviously going to make the Rockets better. Anyone thinking differently was either a huge homer or not very good at analyzing basketball, tbh.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Likely a warranted take... BUT



That statement is utterly unwarranted... no matter if you hated the guy (likely not the case). To mockingly laugh about someone's death just to make a point is low.

Lmao you seriously believe Harlem is dead :lol

[sasaint]

There were also issues in OKC which kinda pointed to possible sharing issues. Things were a bit less settled about Westbrook being the culprit of the inability to play well with others before this season. I do have to say that I am a bit surprised at how pedestrian George looks with OKC.

George is biding time until he moves to the coast. He doesn't want to risk injury on a team that isn't a real title contender.

[SAGirl]

Spurs are standing pat. The healthier and better Tony and Manu look, coupled with Dijon's improvement and their confidence in Forbes, they are sticking with this group....

[sasaint]

Spurs are standing pat. The healthier and better Tony and Manu look, coupled with Dijon's improvement and their confidence in Forbes, they are sticking with this group....

Even in the frontcourt, too. Joff is starting to show a little of what he flashed before his injury. Pop will go with these guys.

[SAGirl]

Even in the frontcourt, too. Joff is starting to show a little of what he flashed before his injury. Pop will go with these guys.
Yeah... and they still aren't fully healthy. It's a matter of continuing to get better for the young guys, and staying healthy for everyone from now on. I wasn't convinced by Joff but for his role he's fine.

[TD 21]

:lol At anyone who didn't think Paul would make the Rockets markedly better. People overthink this league. Elite talent finds a way, even if there's positional (Duncan and Robinson) or stylistic (James and Wade) overlap, too much ego (O'Neal and Bryant) or you supposedly had to sacrifice a lot to acquire it (Durant). Shooting also solves a lot of things, as does an age gap, which generally makes one more deferential to the other.

[MaNu4Tres]

:lol At anyone who didn't think Paul would make the Rockets markedly better. People overthink this league. Elite talent finds a way, even if there's positional (Duncan and Robinson) or stylistic (James and Wade) overlap, too much ego (O'Neal and Bryant) or you supposedly had to sacrifice a lot to acquire it (Durant). Shooting also solves a lot of things, as does an age gap, which generally makes one more deferential to the other.

How about the Thunder?

Rockets are in another world when it comes to offense with CP3. I cringe when I see Pop calling 4 down for Pau or LA early in the shot clock, like he did against the Rockets last Friday. Worst type of scheme Pop should draw up-- it actually hurts the team more than helps.

For as good as LaMarcus has been this season overall, he's still shooting a terrible 41% in post ups this year in 196 attempts (which is worse than last year). And Pau? He's shooting 36% in post ups this year in 96 attempts. It's baffling to me how Pop continues to go to them in the post to initiate offense.

[TimDunkem]

The Thunder are starting to play better, tbh.Meanwhile, the Rockets will continue to improve.

[r0drig0lac]

The Thunder are starting to play better, tbh.Meanwhile, the Rockets will continue to improve.
talent >>>>

[dabom]

The rockets used a 7 man rotation their last game. They are playing like if the playoffs started. They are playing on gear 2 at minimum. Not good for the long run.

[MaNu4Tres]

The Thunder are starting to play better

No they're not.

They are barely squeaking out wins against poor teams. Fans like you are just results oriented (see wins and losses) and don't watch games.

[timtonymanu]

The rockets used a 7 man rotation their last game. They are playing like if the playoffs started. They are playing on gear 2 at minimum. Not good for the long run.

Hoping they are this year's 2011 Spurs.

[dabom]

Hoping they are this year's 2011 Spurs.

That Spurs was good. Fucking manu just got a freak accident on the last games of the season. And we lose the first game. Then he comes back and we win our home games and they win their home games. The team was shit in retrospect, but I still thought they were better than the grizz for sure, even if we lost to them in the RS.

[timtonymanu]

That Spurs was good. Fucking manu just got a freak accident on the last games of the season. And we lose the first game. Then he comes back and we win our home games and they win their home games. The team was shit in retrospect, but I still thought they were better than the grizz for sure, even if we lost to them in the RS.

I bring up 2011 because the Spurs peaked early that season like Houston is. Meanwhile the defending champions are 2nd place and the Spurs are 3rd. And we know what the 3rd place Mavs did that season.

[sasaint]

How about the Thunder?

Rockets are in another world when it comes to offense with CP3. I cringe when I see Pop calling 4 down for Pau or LA early in the shot clock, like he did against the Rockets last Friday. Worst type of scheme Pop should draw up-- it actually hurts the team more than helps.

For as good as LaMarcus has been this season overall, he's still shooting a terrible 41% in post ups this year in 196 attempts (which is worse than last year). And Pau? He's shooting 36% in post ups this year in 96 attempts. It's baffling to me how Pop continues to go to them in the post to initiate offense.

Thanks for posting the percentages. They certainly confirm my eye test.

[sasaint]

That Spurs was good. Fucking manu just got a freak accident on the last games of the season. And we lose the first game. Then he comes back and we win our home games and they win their home games. The team was shit in retrospect, but I still thought they were better than the grizz for sure, even if we lost to them in the RS.

Exactly right. Manu's freak injury killed us. Without that injury we beat the Grizz, which was our toughest matchup. Then we had an excellent chance to ring. The Mavs rang precisely because they didn't have to play us.

[TimDunkem]

No they're not.

They are barely squeaking out wins against poor teams. Fans like you are just results oriented (see wins and losses) and don't watch games.
Jesus. And here I thought you were one of the posters that I agreed with generally more than others on this site. Guess you find yourself disagreeing with me more than I would have thought. That, or you're confusing me with someone else, or maybe just have a stick up your ass today.

Squeaking out wins against playoff teams is better than choking away wins to teams like Sacramento towards a below .500 record and not making the playoffs. Right now, they're back in the playoff mix. They're slowly getting better. Hell, they just beat Denver without Steven Adams who has arguably been their most important player lately.

[MaNu4Tres]

Jesus. And here I thought you were one of the posters that I agreed with generally more than others on this site. Guess you find yourself disagreeing with me more than I would have thought. That, or you're confusing me with someone else, or maybe just have a stick up your ass today.

Squeaking out wins against playoff teams is better than choking away wins to teams like Sacramento towards a below .500 record and not making the playoffs. Right now, they're back in the playoff mix. They're slowly getting better. Hell, they just beat Denver without Steven Adams who has arguably been their most important player lately.

Russ, Melo and PG have all been playing worse than they did the first 6 weeks of the season. They aren't playing better. They've gotten very lucky to win the games they've won lately.

[MaNu4Tres]

Thanks for posting the percentages. They certainly confirm my eye test.

No problem. There's people on this board who still think this is a strength of the team. Couldn't be further from the truth.

[TD 21]

How about the Thunder?

Rockets are in another world when it comes to offense with CP3. I cringe when I see Pop calling 4 down for Pau or LA early in the shot clock, like he did against the Rockets last Friday. Worst type of scheme Pop should draw up-- it actually hurts the team more than helps.

For as good as LaMarcus has been this season overall, he's still shooting a terrible 41% in post ups this year in 196 attempts (which is worse than last year). And Pau? He's shooting 36% in post ups this year in 96 attempts. It's baffling to me how Pop continues to go to them in the post to initiate offense.

My examples featured two MVP caliber players. Thunder have one and he's the most erratic, lowest basketball IQ one I've ever seen.

A lot of times it's by default; the result of having no one who can break down the defense on the perimeter. It's either that or a steady diet of P-n-R's and DHOs that mostly go nowhere. This is why they should have been in on Bledsoe and why they should be on the trail of Walker now.

[MaNu4Tres]

A lot of times it's by default; the result of having no one who can break down the defense on the perimeter. It's either that or a steady diet of P-n-R's and DHOs that mostly go nowhere. This is why they should have been in on Bledsoe and why they should be on the trail of Walker now.

They chose to pay a player 50 million to have 134 PnR ball handler possessions 30 games in -- who shoots 35%, gets to the line 4% of the time, and turns it over 13.4% of the time in these PnR ball handler scenarios.

[sasaint]

No problem. There's people on this board who still think this is a strength of the team. Couldn't be further from the truth.

LMA was never inclined to be strong in the post. He has a game every once in a while where he is strong going to the hole, but most of the time he goes that little man fade-away. He has never been a strong post player, and he is not likely to change his spots.

[TD 21]

They chose to pay a player 50 million to have 134 PnR ball handler possessions 30 games in -- who shoots 35%, gets to the line 4% of the time, and turns it over 13.4% of the time in these PnR ball handler scenarios.


They should be working the back channels on Walker; he's a free agent at the end of next season. His situation is similar to Conley's and Holiday's, in that they're probably unwilling to trade him and willing to pay him damn near anything.


If they can sell him, he can request a trade through his representative(s), dissuade others (namely, Nuggets) from trading for him and maybe force their hands into trading him for Mills, Murray, 1st. That way Spurs would have his Bird rights, so he could still get a 5 year contract.


To be clear, I don't think for a second that this will actually happen. Can't see them relegating Parker to backup status and trading Mills for anything short of a prime future Hall-of-Famer, which is obviously unattainable. They're inexplicably content staking their chance of vaulting back into championship contention in the near future on Murray becoming an All-Star and doing so before Aldridge is no longer one.

[Robz4000]

Welp, looks like his knee asploded.

[SAGirl]

Welp, looks like his knee asploded.
Injury prone, his age and the megamax deal are the reasons I doubted he would have been worth it for the Spurs. To be fair to him, Pop wouldn't be playing him on shortened 8 men rotations in the regular season and he's be on Pop's super careful rest/injury management schedule.

[tholdren]

Welp, looks like his knee asploded.

Adductor strain

[daslicer]

Injury prone, his age and the megamax deal are the reasons I doubted he would have been worth it for the Spurs. To be fair to him, Pop wouldn't be playing him on shortened 8 men rotations in the regular season and he's be on Pop's super careful rest/injury management schedule.

Knowing our luck he would still get injured.

[r0drig0lac]

LMAO PRINGLES IS SO STUPID

[exstatic]

Paul left the game last night with a left leg injury. It was his left knee that kept him on the shelf earlier. Stay tuned.

[gambit1990]

warriors are 42-13, rockets are 41-13. rockets lost their first game with cp3, harden, capela as starters last month (they were 19-0). and they just lost by 2 points.

[gambit1990]

get it cp3.

[TheGreatYacht]

Never wanted him, as I've been saying for months..too old and his style of play helps role players but hurts other stars..can't even imagine how 2 of the 3 most ball-dominant players in the league will fit together..
:lol

[DAF86]

Folks thinking this wouldn't work :lmao

[Budkin]

They're still going to lose to the Warriors in the playoffs. Harden and CP3 are two of the biggest post season chokers of all time.

[DAF86]

Harden was a PG last year in D'Antoni's system. Yes your right about Harden deferring to Durant and Westbrook but it wasn't about Harden deferring in this situation. It was about CP3 deferring to Harden and that's what most people did not believe could happen since CP3 has always been a ball dominant player. There's no history in his career of him having to defer play making duties to another player. Plus there was no history of him playing off the ball. Anyways I'm done with this discussion. Also there's no reason to be a fucking asshole if someone has a different view then yours.

Oooh, now I know why this guy is so mad at me. :lol

[SAGirl]

I didn't think it would work, but I stand corrected.
I was always more concerned about Spurs problems and had no real beef or fork in this debate.

[daslicer]

Oooh, now I know why this guy is so mad at me. :lol

:lol Wow your still butt hurt about me insulting you on the other thread. Anyways Manutard I don't respect you because your a Manu fanboy with idiotic takes.

[DAF86]

:lol Wow your still butt hurt about me insulting you on the other thread. Anyways Manutard I don't respect you because your a Manu fanboy with idiotic takes.

From the guy that said that CP3 and Harden wouldn't work together. :lol At least choose a different thread to blame others of having idiotic takes son :lol

":cry no reason to be a fucking asshole :cry" :lmao

[coachmac87]

I mean other than his knee issue/ bruise CP3 has been phenomenal this year. He’s just the best pure point guard that’s played in the last 10-15 years..

That position was and still is Spurs biggest weakness and hopefully some of y’all have a change of heart regarding PATFO interest.. Things would’ve been so much different if he came here..even without Kawhi.

I made it obvious why I wanted him so bad...and now maybe others also see that lol

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol I was wrong about the fit of Harden-Paul(salute to Paul for taking a backseat), 100%, although all my other posts ITT were correct, they were obviously going to improve significantly..

However, 3 things:

1. Their offense actually isn't that much better than last year(3rd to 1st) and their net rating isn't much better when Paul and Harden play together..signing defensive role players and improving their defense to 9th has been their most impressive progress(along with Harden taking another leap)

2. They look mediocre without Harden and with Paul as a #1 option(4-3 record), which is what he would have been for the Spurs..his contract is going to look horrible in 2-3 years..Houston is still extremely reliant on Harden, this isn't a Curry/Durant situation..

3. All this is completely meaningless during the RS on a team led by Harden, Paul and D'Antoni..

[daslicer]

From the guy that said that CP3 and Harden wouldn't work together. :lol At least choose a different thread to blame others of having idiotic takes son :lol

":cry no reason to be a fucking asshole :cry" :lmao

:lol Yes this is coming from the same retard who believed the '02-'03 Spurs could have won 50 games without Duncan. Your butt hurt coming at me like a woman. We got into an argument a few weeks ago in another thread and it's evident your still hurt about it hence you bumping my old post in this thread. On the other thread you were crying "Why does this guy hate me." Sounds like a bitch to me.

:lol I'm sorry I hurt you Manutard. Manutard you are Will in this clip.
GmerFuzRNZ4

[Nathan89]

They're still going to lose to the Warriors in the playoffs. Harden and CP3 are two of the biggest post season chokers of all time.

Losing to a far more talented team isn't choking.

[DAF86]

:lol Yes this is coming from the same retard who believed the '02-'03 Spurs could have won 50 games without Duncan. Your butt hurt coming at me like a woman. We got into an argument a few weeks ago in another thread and it's evident your still hurt about it hence you bumping my old post in this thread. On the other thread you were crying "Why does this guy hate me." Sounds like a bitch to me.

:lol I'm sorry I hurt you Manutard. Manutard you are Will in this clip.
GmerFuzRNZ4

Never said that and you know it. This is when I know a guy is mentally beat, tbh. When he has to lie to try and keep up. :lol

[DAF86]

:lol Yes this is coming from the same retard who believed the '02-'03 Spurs could have won 50 games without Duncan. Your butt hurt coming at me like a woman. We got into an argument a few weeks ago in another thread and it's evident your still hurt about it hence you bumping my old post in this thread. On the other thread you were crying "Why does this guy hate me." Sounds like a bitch to me.

:lol I'm sorry I hurt you Manutard. Manutard you are Will in this clip.
GmerFuzRNZ4

Not really, I just saw this thread was bumped and I started reading the old takes. Then I found your posts and realized this was the reason you were so butthurt at me. If you recall, I mentioned that I didn't even remember why you were so butthurt towards me (i didn't even knew you existed actually), then I saw this and it hit me. I just found it very funny son, sorry for bumping your post. :lol

[daslicer]

Never said that and you know it. This is when I know a guy is mentally beat, tbh. When he has to lie to try and keep up. :lol

:lol Manutard that was you on the Aldridge thread.

[DAF86]

:lol Manutard that was you on the Aldridge thread.

Go bump when I said the Spurs would win 50 games without Duncan in '03, tbh. Go, I dare you.

[DAF86]

:lol Manutard that was you on the Aldridge thread.

Go bump when I said the Spurs would win 50 games without Duncan in '03, tbh. Really, go, I dare you.

[DAF86]

Stop your futile search son, here are the comments:


Not surprised I didn't expect a good comeback from you Manutard. Manutard do you honestly believe the '02-'03 Spurs could have won more than 30 games without Duncan?


Tony, Manu, Jackson, Bowen, Robinson, Malik, Pop. I don't know, maybe. But I was clearly referring to the Manu and Tony prime years.

That somehow, in someone's head, means I said the Spurs would win 50+ games without Duncan in '03. :lol

[daslicer]

Stop your futile search son, here are the comments:





That somehow, in someone's head, means I said the Spurs would win 50+ games without Duncan in '03. :lol

:lol Manutard I'm clearly in your head or your wouldn't have bumped my old post in this thread.

[Phenomanul]

You were downplaying how great both Tony and Manu were, saying their success was solely a byproduct of playing alongside Duncan.

The argument was made that during their shared peak prime (Manu from 2004 - 2012, Tony from 2007 - 2013; i.e. a shared time period between 2007 - 2012) the Spurs would've managed to win 50 games (Pop, Manu and Tony).

You're the only one who tried to suggest that their prime period somehow included the 2002 - 2003 season - no one else did given the context of the statement.

[daslicer]

You were downplaying how great both Tony and Manu were, saying their success was solely a byproduct of playing alongside Duncan.

The argument was made that during their shared peak prime (Manu from 2004 - 2012, Tony from 2007 - 2013; i.e. a shared time period between 2007 - 2012) the Spurs would've managed to win 50 games (Pop, Manu and Tony).

You're the only one who tried to suggest that their prime period somehow included the 2002 - 2003 season - no one else did given the context of the statement.

:lol Wow a fellow Manutard defending another. He doesn't need your help. Anyways we had this argument in the other thread. Leave it at that it's pretty much dead.

[DAF86]

:lol Wow a fellow Manutard defending another. He doesn't need your help. Anyways we had this argument in the other thread. Leave it at that it's pretty much dead.

Ok son, I will bully you no more. Next time check who you're messing with, tbh. :lol

[SAGirl]

You were downplaying how great both Tony and Manu were, saying their success was solely a byproduct of playing alongside Duncan.

The argument was made that during their shared peak prime (Manu from 2004 - 2012, Tony from 2007 - 2013; i.e. a shared time period between 2007 - 2012) the Spurs would've managed to win 50 games (Pop, Manu and Tony).

You're the only one who tried to suggest that their prime period somehow included the 2002 - 2003 season - no one else did given the context of the statement.
Frankly perhaps I shouldn't butt in... but I will.
a team without a quality big back then would look like lillard and mccollum right now and this is a more favorable era for guards than back then, at least so I have been led to believe. cute little regular season team folds in the playoffs each time.
another analogy is derozan and Lowry and perhaps we shall see, CP3 and Harden. It's why I think GSW made sure to get KD and have boosted his ego every which way possible they can, even at the expense of saying he's more significant than Curry for them. I think you'd need one forward/center type in this era that can be your defensive anchor to have a chance but if I recall correctly, the argument was made they could have gotten one using the capspace that was given to Timmy... except all the teams I mentioned haven't secured one yet to put them in true contention and they have tried. Though the Rocketts having developed Capella and having a lot of wings and defenders with size has given them an edge they perhaps haven't had in the past.

Now I will show myself out. Timmy is one of the best players ever. I think Spurs without him would have been a cute RS team that folds in the playoffs.... that is just me I guess.

[daslicer]

Ok son, I will bully you no more. Next time check who you're messing with, tbh. :lol

:lol Manutard please you were the one who had hurt feelings hence you bumping my old post from a few weeks ago in this thread and making a reference to the Aldridge thread. The fact that you were still bothered by the argument from a few weeks ago shows you have female tendencies hence you are a bitch. I still stand by the way I felt about Manu and Parker in the other thread. My beliefs haven't changed I just don't re-open old arguments because all the points that needed to be made were made in the original argument and plus both sides are not going to budge with their views. It's just a waste of time.

Also I laugh at your fake internet gangster act. It's as legit as Kevin Durant's tough guy act.
Manutard you are Kevin Durant in this clip
63mKqRezs_U

[DAF86]

Yeah, I can tell from your chill demeanor and relevant youtube vids that you are clearly the one in charge of the situation, just bullin' dem triggered posters with female tendencies. :lol

[Phenomanul]

Frankly perhaps I shouldn't butt in... but I will.
a team without a quality big back then would look like lillard and mccollum right now and this is a more favorable era for guards than back then, at least so I have been led to believe. cute little regular season team folds in the playoffs each time.
another analogy is derozan and Lowry and perhaps we shall see, CP3 and Harden. It's why I think GSW made sure to get KD and have boosted his ego every which way possible they can, even at the expense of saying he's more significant than Curry for them. I think you'd need one forward/center type in this era that can be your defensive anchor to have a chance but if I recall correctly, the argument was made they could have gotten one using the capspace that was given to Timmy... except all the teams I mentioned haven't secured one yet to put them in true contention and they have tried. Though the Rocketts having developed Capella and having a lot of wings and defenders with size has given them an edge they perhaps haven't had in the past.

Now I will show myself out. Timmy is one of the best players ever. I think Spurs without him would have been a cute RS team that folds in the playoffs.... that is just me I guess.

The point was that Duncan's salary hold would've been enough to get a quality big to play alongside Manu and Tony (maybe even an all-star type talent). Portland doesn't have any quality bigs.

So if you supplanted Duncan with another player who would play subservient to Parker and Manu - coached under Pop, they likely could've mustered 50 wins. So yes we all agree they would not be replacing Duncan with another transcendental (once in a generation) type player - but someone with enough talent to garner inside attention. Daslicer was making an argument that Manu and Parker were nobodies outside of Duncan - a point which is circumstantially negated by clear evidence. Manu led a team of limited players to an Olympic Gold medal, a World Championship Silver medal and another Olympic Bronze medal (all without Duncan), and he led his Italian Club team to back-to-back Euroleague Finals [winning one and garnering MVP honors] (again, without Duncan). To suggest that Manu's game ONLY flourished because Duncan commanded so much attention is asinine. Manu was a star player despite Duncan's super-stardom. There is a reason why Ginobili ranks 28th on the all-time Career WS/48 list.

So yes, for all intents and purposes the argument was "dead" the other salient point however was that nobody was claiming that 50 win seasons would've been attained during Manu's rookie year.

The assertion was made that they could have done this during Nash's Run and Gun Suns era...

[SAGirl]

The point was that Duncan's salary hold would've been enough to get a quality big to play alongside Manu and Tony (maybe even an all-star type talent). Portland doesn't have any quality bigs.
And absent TD maybe the Spurs never get one either. See there are many teams that want one and can't get it. That is just how it goes. Perhaps you are undervaluing Timmy D as much as some undervalued Kiwi's contribution... we shall never know bc its a hypothetical.

[Russ]

Harden and CP3 are two of the biggest post season chokers of all time.

Then mix in D'Antoni . . .

[gambit1990]

I mean other than his knee issue/ bruise CP3 has been phenomenal this year. He’s just the best pure point guard that’s played in the last 10-15 years.
:tu

people on this site who didn't want him :lmao

[daslicer]

The point was that Duncan's salary hold would've been enough to get a quality big to play alongside Manu and Tony (maybe even an all-star type talent). Portland doesn't have any quality bigs.

So if you supplanted Duncan with another player who would play subservient to Parker and Manu - coached under Pop, they likely could've mustered 50 wins. So yes we all agree they would not be replacing Duncan with another transcendental (once in a generation) type player - but someone with enough talent to garner inside attention. Daslicer was making an argument that Manu and Parker were nobodies outside of Duncan - a point which is circumstantially negated by clear evidence. Manu led a team of limited players to an Olympic Gold medal, a World Championship Silver medal and another Olympic Bronze medal (all without Duncan), and he led his Italian Club team to back-to-back Euroleague Finals [winning one and garnering MVP honors] (again, without Duncan). To suggest that Manu's game ONLY flourished because Duncan commanded so much attention is asinine. Manu was a star player despite Duncan's super-stardom. There is a reason why Ginobili ranks 28th on the all-time Career WS/48 list.

So yes, for all intents and purposes the argument was "dead" the other salient point however was that nobody was claiming that 50 win seasons would've been attained during Manu's rookie year.

The assertion was made that they could have done this during Nash's Run and Gun Suns era...

Manu and Parker are not winning 50 games in the '00s era without an all-star big. Also getting an all-star big even with cap space would be difficult during that era like it is in any era. Nash and Lebron are the only two perimeter players in that era to win 50 plus wins without an all-star big. Lebron did in '10 and Nash did in '06 with Amare being injured for the whole entire season. Keep in mind both of those guys I listed won the MVP during those seasons. I don't see Parker or Manu even at their peak ever rising to become a league MVP . Wade and Kobe could not win 50 plus games once they were not playing with Shaq. Both are superstar players who I believe are superior to Manu and Parker.

I never said Parker and Manu are nobodies. I feel at their best they were all-star caliber players for many years but they were never superstars. It's a big reason why the Spurs could never win back to back. If you look at other teams that have won back to back they had 2 superstars ala 90's bulls, '00 Lakers, Lebron Heat, 90's Rockets with Drexler. Spurs only had 1 in Duncan.

[daslicer]

And absent TD maybe the Spurs never get one either. See there are many teams that want one and can't get it. That is just how it goes. Perhaps you are undervaluing Timmy D as much as some undervalued Kiwi's contribution... we shall never know bc its a hypothetical.

I remember how hard it was for the Spurs to replace Robinson after he retired. They had a lot of cap space in '03. They tried going after both Jermaine O'Neal and Elton Brand. They wanted one of those guys and struck out at both. They eventually ended up with Rasho and Horry instead. A year earlier in '02 they tried to get Webber and he also rejected them. What these posters don't realize is having cap space does not guarantee a shot at a good FA unless your LA,Miami,Houston,NYC etc. A good quality big is still very valuable in this league and I doubt they would even consider going to SA even with cap space. LMA was a fluke and he's only in SA because his son lives there. Also I laugh at the Manutard who said Portland doesn't have any quality bigs. Portland was on the verge of going to the lottery last year if it wasn't for the Nurkic trade and Nurkic is a good big. Nurkic is also a huge reason why they are winning a lot of games right now.

[gambit1990]

880096851063525376

PATFO :lmao

[gambit1990]

this is a d'antoni team but don't sleep on capela.

[Budkin]

:tu

people on this site who didn't want him :lmao

Can you imagine how pissed he'd be as a Spur this year?

[Phenomanul]

I remember how hard it was for the Spurs to replace Robinson after he retired. They had a lot of cap space in '03. They tried going after both Jermaine O'Neal and Elton Brand. They wanted one of those guys and struck out at both. They eventually ended up with Rasho and Horry instead. A year earlier in '02 they tried to get Webber and he also rejected them. What these posters don't realize is having cap space does not guarantee a shot at a good FA unless your LA,Miami,Houston,NYC etc. A good quality big is still very valuable in this league and I doubt they would even consider going to SA even with cap space. LMA was a fluke and he's only in SA because his son lives there. Also I laugh at the Manutard who said Portland doesn't have any quality bigs. Portland was on the verge of going to the lottery last year if it wasn't for the Nurkic trade and Nurkic is a good big. Nurkic is also a huge reason why they are winning a lot of games right now.

You're still missing the point of the hypothetical exercise. Pop made use of an aging Oberto and although he didn't provide stellar numbers, he was nevertheless a dependable big.

I guess people here have forgotten the Spurs owned the rights to Luis Scola. Though he was not an all-star player, he was nevertheless a crafty and heady player that would've thrived playing under Manu and Parker. During Manu and Parker's shared prime period, Scola played for the Rockets and in those 5 seasons with them he averaged 14.5 PPG / 7.7 RPG / 1.9 APG / 51.0% shooting. Scola would not have balked at the opportunity of playing with his fellow countryman.

Every other statement you have made is still a back-pedaling from your contention that somehow anyone here said that the Duncan-less 2002-2003 Spurs would have won 50 games. No one here made that claim.

[Phenomanul]

And absent TD maybe the Spurs never get one either. See there are many teams that want one and can't get it. That is just how it goes. Perhaps you are undervaluing Timmy D as much as some undervalued Kiwi's contribution... we shall never know bc its a hypothetical.

In the sections you chose not to quote I called Duncan a transcendental, once-in-a-generation type player. I state that Duncan was a super-star. I don't know how much more praise you want me to give him.

The fact remains that Manu won at every stage before/without Duncan. Ginobili is a proven winner, even if he wasn't quite the superstar of Duncan's caliber.

Manu was an unstoppable force when he was "on". Even the vaulted Piston's defense had no answer for him (until Prince gave him a knee on his quad).

I witnessed first hand how Manu singlehandedly (without Duncan or Parker who were both hurt) took on the 4 all-star Lakers (Shaq / Kobe / Payton / Malone) and took them to 2 overtimes. Had Horry made his open 3point look at the end of the 2nd Overtime on an assist by Manu the Spurs would have taken the W. Phil was caught yelling at Kobe during a timeout to stay on him, and Kobe yelled back "I'm trying but his moves are chaotic and unpredictable". THAT Manu could win you 50 games paired with Parker and Pop.

[daslicer]

You're still missing the point of the hypothetical exercise. Pop made use of an aging Oberto and although he didn't provide stellar numbers, he was nevertheless a dependable big.

I guess people here have forgotten the Spurs owned the rights to Luis Scola. Though he was not an all-star player, he was nevertheless a crafty and heady player that would've thrived playing under Manu and Parker. During Manu and Parker's shared prime period, Scola played for the Rockets and in those 5 seasons with them he averaged 14.5 PPG / 7.7 RPG / 1.9 APG / 51.0% shooting. Scola would not have balked at the opportunity of playing with his fellow countryman.

Every other statement you have made is still a back-pedaling from your contention that somehow anyone here said that the Duncan-less 2002-2003 Spurs would have won 50 games. No one here made that claim.

My argument is the Spurs would not ever win 50 games without Duncan if it was just Manu and Parker whether it's in their prime or when they were young how is that backpedaling? That's what got your fellow Manutard angry. Your argument is that if the Spurs found a quality big to play with Manu/Parker they could win 50. My response to that is they would need an all-star caliber big to win 50 with. I don't see that happening with Oberto or even Scola. I do believe Manu and Tony would win 50 games if they got to team up with Amare, KG, Dirk, Yao. Too bad the odds of being able to team up with those guys would be slim to zero. That's why your argument is silly. Realistically if the Spurs don't have Duncan they are stuck with a stiff like Rasho playing with Parker/Manu. Parker-Manu-Rasho ain't ever going to get 50 wins.

[Phenomanul]

My argument is the Spurs would not ever win 50 games without Duncan if it was just Manu and Parker whether it's in their prime or when they were young how is that backpedaling? That's what got your fellow Manutard angry. Your argument is that if the Spurs found a quality big to play with Manu/Parker they could win 50. My response to that is they would need an all-star caliber big to win 50 with. I don't see that happening with Oberto or even Scola. I do believe Manu and Tony would win 50 games if they got to team up with Amare, KG, Dirk, Yao. Too bad the odds of being able to team up with those guys would be slim to zero. That's why your argument is silly. Realistically if the Spurs don't have Duncan they are stuck with a stiff like Rasho playing with Parker/Manu. Parker-Manu-Rasho ain't ever going to get 50 wins.

Again, the actual evidence disproves your assertions.

The Spurs' winning percentage without Duncan in that period (with both Manu and Parker playing) is still above 64%. That's a pace of 52 wins. Add Scola to that mix and he would be good for at least 3-5 more wins.

The Duncan-Ginobili-Parker Trio averaged 725-ball (60 win pace) from 2003 - 2015 (when all three took the court). SURE Duncan made them elite, that's not being debated by anyone. BUT 50 wins is not as unattainable a threshold as you keep trying to make it.

[daslicer]

In the sections you chose not to quote I called Duncan a transcendental, once-in-a-generation type player. I state that Duncan was a super-star. I don't know how much more praise you want me to give him.

The fact remains that Manu won at every stage before/without Duncan. Ginobili is a proven winner, even if he wasn't quite the superstar of Duncan's caliber.

Manu was an unstoppable force when he was "on". Even the vaulted Piston's defense had no answer for him (until Prince gave him a knee on his quad).

I witnessed first hand how Manu singlehandedly (without Duncan or Parker who were both hurt) took on the 4 all-star Lakers (Shaq / Kobe / Payton / Malone) and took them to 2 overtimes. Had Horry made his open 3point look at the end of the 2nd Overtime on an assist by Manu the Spurs would have taken the W. Phil was caught yelling at Kobe during a timeout to stay on him, and Kobe yelled back "I'm trying but his moves are chaotic and unpredictable". THAT Manu could win you 50 games paired with Parker and Pop.

Too bad that Manu could not consistently play like that a for a full season. Fact is he didn't have a great game like that when it mattered in the playoffs against the Lakers that year. If that Manu showed up in the '04 playoffs against the Lakers then the Spurs win the series. Manu could have great games like the one you described but he couldn't do it consistently like Wade,Kobe could. That's what separates a superstar from an all-star. Manu didn't have the durability and stamina to be a superstar it's why he only averaged above 30 minutes once in his career. The regular season game you hyped up in which Manu play great guys like Kobe and Wade played like that all the time and still couldn't win many games without stacked teams. Wade and Kobe could not lead teams to 50 win seasons without an all-star big and they were far superior to Manu.

I have to say who cares if Manu was a winner before he played with Duncan. You can say the same about Toni Kukoc before he played with Jordan but bull fans would not be stupid enough to say Toni is a superstar. Keep in mind I'm not saying Toni is better than Manu. Manu beat a crappy team USA and I have to say that achievement is overrated in here since the same Team USA he took out in '02 and '04 were getting their ass kicked by a bunch of teams. Carlos Arroyo beat that team so did Pau and Peja. The one time Manu had to face a legit Team USA in '03 he got curbstomped. Argentina lucked out in '04 when the the majority of the original members of the '03 team decided not to play in the Olympics.

[daslicer]

Again, the actual evidence disproves your assertions.

The Spurs' winning percentage without Duncan in that period (with both Manu and Parker playing) is still above 64%. That's a pace of 52 wins. Add Scola to that mix and he would be good for at least 3-5 more wins.

The Duncan-Ginobili-Parker Trio averaged 725-ball (60 win pace) from 2003 - 2015 (when all three took the court). SURE Duncan made them elite, that's not being debated by anyone. BUT 50 wins is not as unattainable a threshold as you keep trying to make it.

That's a small sample size to chose from considering Tim didn't miss that many games from '03-'15. The Spurs were 19-8 to start the season without Kawhi which was good for a winning percentage of 70 percent and would have had them winning around 57 games. We all saw how the spurs could not continue at the pace once the league adjusted and figured them out. I doubt a Parker-Manu lead team could play at the 64 percent pace for a whole entire year. Just like the Kawhi-Less Spurs situation the league would adapt and figure them out.

[UZER]

:tu

people on this site who didn't want him :lmao

Just wait until the playoffs. You’ll be reminded why people didn’t want him.

[Phenomanul]

Too bad that Manu could not consistently play like that a for a full season. Fact is he didn't have a great game like that when it mattered in the playoffs against the Lakers that year. If that Manu showed up in the '04 playoffs against the Lakers then the Spurs win the series. Manu could have great games like the one you described but he couldn't do it consistently like Wade,Kobe could. That's what separates a superstar from an all-star. Manu didn't have the durability and stamina to be a superstar it's why he only averaged above 30 minutes once in his career. The regular season game you hyped up in which Manu play great guys like Kobe and Wade played like that all the time and still couldn't win many games without stacked teams. Wade and Kobe could not lead teams to 50 win seasons without an all-star big and they were far superior to Manu.

I have to say who cares if Manu was a winner before he played with Duncan. You can say the same about Toni Kukoc before he played with Jordan but bull fans would not be stupid enough to say Toni is a superstar. Keep in mind I'm not saying Toni is better than Manu. Manu beat a crappy team USA and I have to say that achievement is overrated in here since the same Team USA he took out in '02 and '04 were getting their ass kicked by a bunch of teams. Carlos Arroyo beat that team so did Pau and Peja. The one time Manu had to face a legit Team USA in '03 he got curbstomped. Argentina lucked out in '04 when the the majority of the original members of the '03 team decided not to play in the Olympics.

Manu's usage rate during the 2004 playoffs was deliberately curtailed by Pop because he still had him on a short leash that season (not because of Manu's own limitations - which your post grossly implies).

When Pop finally gave Ginobili free reign, and Ginobili was fully unleashed we were all witness to what his competitive fury could produce. The game from 2004 that I referenced was a glimpse at what Ginobili could give you when he was given more control of the playmaking decisions. In a game without Duncan or Parker, Pop couldn't micromanage Manu (i.e. Ginobili getting randomly yanked out for gambling on the passing lanes, etc...) - so Manu played the only way he knew how.

Manu's 2005 playoff run was uber-efficient and rivals any produced by either Kobe or Wade (on just about every advanced metric, VORP / WS / WS/48 / DPM / OPM / RPM / PER, etc...). Again, more revisionism on your part to try and fit your narrative that Manu's star wasn't bright enough.

I remember that 2003 game that you referenced earlier; Argentina lost their starting point guard, Pepe Sanchez at the start of the 2nd quarter and Scola at the half. No excuses needed, but the US always had more talent. That Argentina squad got the last laugh though on route to a gold medal the following year.

[daslicer]

Manu's usage rate during the 2004 playoffs was deliberately curtailed by Pop because he still had him on a short leash that season (not because of Manu's own limitations - which your post grossly implies).

When Pop finally gave Ginobili free reign, and Ginobili was fully unleashed we were all witness to what his competitive fury could produce. The game from 2004 that I referenced was a glimpse at what Ginobili could give you when he was given more control of the playmaking decisions. In a game without Duncan or Parker, Pop couldn't micromanage Manu (i.e. Ginobili getting randomly yanked out for gambling on the passing lanes, etc...) - so Manu played the only way he knew how.

Manu's 2005 playoff run was uber-efficient and rivals any produced by either Kobe or Wade (on just about every advanced metric, VORP / WS / WS/48 / DPM / OPM / RPM / PER, etc...). Again, more revisionism on your part to try and fit your narrative that Manu's star wasn't bright enough.

I remember that 2003 game that you referenced earlier; Argentina lost their starting point guard, Pepe Sanchez at the start of the 2nd quarter and Scola at the half. No excuses needed, but the US always had more talent. That Argentina squad got the last laugh though on route to a gold medal the following year.

:lmao This is why I can't take you Manutards seriously. Manu as good as Kobe and Wade that's too funny.

[SAGirl]

880096851063525376

PATFO :lmao
I think the tweet wouldn't say it but they probably didn't like the ticket price at his age. They allegedly wanted Kyrie really bad. I know you aren't a Kyrie fan. It's something that could be questionable. You trade Tony and don't sign Paddy and there's a start towards getting enough. One wonders if Pop was unwilling to pay up and trade guys or if CP3 was scared by the LMA situation. Considering the rift was real, the latter seems very likely. And it was leaked Harden recruited him very early in the summer. Spurs team had no chance there it seems like.

One also wonders the degree to which PATFO has bought stock in the Murray train. I know there's a lot of debate here about him but I do think Pop really likes him and is hoping he can be big time for them. Time will tell I guess.

[Phenomanul]

:lmao This is why I can't take you Manutards seriously. Manu as good as Kobe and Wade that's too funny.

And this is why YOU can't be taken seriously.

GROSS REDUCTIONISM.

I referenced Manu's 2005 Playoff Run specifically - not his entire career volume. And statistically, an argument can be made that Manu produced one of the best playoff runs in the last 15 years for a shooting guard... the same period graced by the likes of Kobe and Wade.

[Phenomanul]

Again, the actual evidence disproves your assertions.

The Spurs' winning percentage without Duncan in that period (with both Manu and Parker playing) is still above 64%. That's a pace of 52 wins. Add Scola to that mix and he would be good for at least 3-5 more wins.

The Duncan-Ginobili-Parker Trio averaged 725-ball (60 win pace) from 2003 - 2015 (when all three took the court). SURE Duncan made them elite, that's not being debated by anyone. BUT 50 wins is not as unattainable a threshold as you keep trying to make it.


That's a small sample size to chose from considering Tim didn't miss that many games from '03-'15. The Spurs were 19-8 to start the season without Kawhi which was good for a winning percentage of 70 percent and would have had them winning around 57 games. We all saw how the spurs could not continue at the pace once the league adjusted and figured them out. I doubt a Parker-Manu lead team could play at the 64 percent pace for a whole entire year. Just like the Kawhi-Less Spurs situation the league would adapt and figure them out.

Duncan missed 105 regular season games from 2003 - 2015. 16 of those missed games coincided with games missed by either Parker, Ginobili or both.

That leaves 89 games in which the duo of Parker and Ginobili coached by Pop (although he was ejected out of 2 of those games - typical) was still good for 56 wins or pro-rated down to 52 wins on 82 games (in other words no extrapolation required).

I don't care about the Kawhi effect or any other factor not outside of the control factor (i.e. Duncan not playing). The fact is the Spurs still won at a very good clip. Those are facts - based on actual events... Yet you want to build your argument on speculation alone (e.g. "the league would adapt and figure them out" - hence they would not have kept pace)? The Kawhi-less Spurs are "easy" to figure out because they aren't dynamic enough. Parker and Manu in their primes were very difficult players to contain precisely because their games were very complete - especially when Parker's jumper matured and became very dependable. Both could slash, both could shoot, both could create. You don't have to believe it, but your insistence on insulting other people's views simply because they disagree with your own is childish. I've been a Spurs fan since 1989 when I went to my very first Spurs game - your reductionism in suggesting that I am somehow a "Manutard" because I can present fact-based arguments on Ginobili's behalf is ridiculous - and a clear ad hominem strawman.

Again, no one here is disputing the fact that Duncan is what made the Spurs elite, the franchise into perennial contenders. But you're the only one arguing that the team during Manu and Tony's primes, without Duncan would've been mediocre trash.

[DAF86]

Are people acting as if Ray Allen didn't lead the Sonics to a 50+ wins season in the mid 00's? :lol

And that's just one of the many examples. lol Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer. Kevin Martin's Kings was a borderline 50 wins team over that period too if I recall correctly. :lol

[Hoops Czar]

I think the tweet wouldn't say it but they probably didn't like the ticket price at his age. They allegedly wanted Kyrie really bad. I know you aren't a Kyrie fan. It's something that could be questionable. You trade Tony and don't sign Paddy and there's a start towards getting enough. One wonders if Pop was unwilling to pay up and trade guys or if CP3 was scared by the LMA situation. Considering the rift was real, the latter seems very likely. And it was leaked Harden recruited him very early in the summer. Spurs team had no chance there it seems like.

One also wonders the degree to which PATFO has bought stock in the Murray train. I know there's a lot of debate here about him but I do think Pop really likes him and is hoping he can be big time for them. Time will tell I guess.

They didn't have a problem with having an aging broken down 37 year old C opt out of his contract so they could re-sign him for three more years at the same obnoxious price just so they could make room for CP3. Oh, don't let reality fool you. RC bet the mortgage on CP3 because he pretended to show a little bit of interest and he got burned. Such a foolish GM. The Spurs never had a chance with CP3 because he never wanted the Spurs in the first place.

They wanted Kyrie so bad that they didn't make an official offer even though the Spurs were one of his top choices and Cleveland was receiving mostly toilet trash for offers until Boston stepped up a month later. And Ainge admittedly said how they only jumped into the trade because they were worried about IT's long term health status and I guess they were right. How did that work out for Cleveland?

[rjv]

i'll revisit this if the rockets actually get to the finals.

[SAGirl]

They didn't have a problem with having an aging broken down 37 year old C opt out of his contract so they could re-sign him for three more years at the same obnoxious price just so they could make room for CP3. Oh, don't let reality fool you. RC bet the mortgage on CP3 because he pretended to show a little bit of interest and he got burned. Such a foolish GM. The Spurs never had a chance with CP3 because he never wanted the Spurs in the first place.

They wanted Kyrie so bad that they didn't make an official offer even though the Spurs were one of his top choices and Cleveland was receiving mostly toilet trash for offers until Boston stepped up a month later. And Ainge admittedly said how they only jumped into the trade because they were worried about IT's long term health status and I guess they were right. How did that work out for Cleveland?
Boston stepped up with the Nets pick bc they had to. Another team was clearly offering a lot more than Ainge with his IThomas and filler initial offers. I do believe the Spurs offered Danny and Murray and a pick, or a comparably good offer. They also tried to involve 3rd parties to get players that Cleveland wanted. Boston's (Net's) pick was better than the Spurs one so the Spurs were never going to beat the Celtics.

RC did get burned by CP3. I was responding to an inference from gambit that RC didn't really try to go after CP3 which might have been a troll take in retrospect.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

A D'Antoni coached team will figure out some way to lose before reaching the finals.

[gambit1990]

rockets are 40-7 in games where cp3 plays. two losses (against boston and toronto) were because harden turned the ball over in crunch time.

[gambit1990]

harden goes 2-18... rockets win by 20.

cp3 with 27 on 55.6% shooting, 8 assists, 3 steals, 1 block :tu

[UZER]

harden goes 2-18... rockets win by 20.

cp3 with 27 on 55.6% shooting, 8 assists, 3 steals, 1 block :tu

Can’t change stripes. He’s gonna choke an important game away.

[DPG21920]

Here is where the CP3 deal will be judged. He fit well and obviously had no issue giving up the ball to Harden which was a big concern with CP3 usage/being a questionable teammate.

With a player of Harden’s clout, he had no choice really. But as great as their regular season was, it’s all about beating GS and whether CP3 was worth it. If HOU flames out, it’s a fail. They can lose the series, but they can’t flame out.

[gambit1990]

warriors still favorites... going with rockets though... kinda a homer pick since i'm a big cp3 fan.

warriors won't have an answer for capela... but it ultimately comes down to how much of a faggot harden plays like. he plays lackadaisical pretty often. if he plays locked in the whole series then i got the rockets in 6.

[DPG21920]

I say Warriors in 5 maybe 6

[coachmac87]

Here is where the CP3 deal will be judged. He fit well and obviously had no issue giving up the ball to Harden which was a big concern with CP3 usage/being a questionable teammate.

With a player of Harden’s clout, he had no choice really. But as great as their regular season was, it’s all about beating GS and whether CP3 was worth it. If HOU flames out, it’s a fail. They can lose the series, but they can’t flame out.

If they flame out LeBron will come...Paul is a FA and will take less..

Thompson taking less is just another reason that could be the case..especially if they “flame out”

[Clipper Nation]

If they flame out LeBron will come...Paul is a FA and will take less..

Thompson taking less is just another reason that could be the case..especially if they “flame out”
Houston would have to gut their team to the point where it wouldn't increase LeGOAT's chances of beating the Warriors enough to be worth it.

[dbestpro]

I can't imagine how good that OKC team would have been had they been able to stay together and had the proper coaching.

[Nathan89]

Nobody expected them to beat GSW because of CP3. They are a much better team and the problems that people said would occur didn't happen. That's a successful decision unless it prevented them from making another decision that would make the Rockets even better.

[DPG21920]

Nah - if CP3 can’t get the MVP over the hump the deal is a failure. They got lucky SA had drama and that OKC went belly up. They had a pretty easy run to the WCF all things considered. If they get murdered in this series, it’s a really bad look.

[Maddog]

Nah - if CP3 can’t get the MVP over the hump the deal is a failure. They got lucky SA had drama and that OKC went belly up. They had a pretty easy run to the WCF all things considered. If they get murdered in this series, it’s a really bad look.

Yeah and if they flame out they have some really tough choices during the summer.
80million committed. Then have to figure out what to do with an ageing pg who made 20+, a SF would is key and a center who will command a lot .

[Gummi Clutch]

Nah - if CP3 can’t get the MVP over the hump the deal is a failure. They got lucky SA had drama and that OKC went belly up. They had a pretty easy run to the WCF all things considered. If they get murdered in this series, it’s a really bad look.
This is such a B.S narrative.."easy path" :lmao

They played a fully healthy team that was the 3rd seed before injuries, then they played a team that had the 2nd ~ best record in the league since Gobert came back.

Just own it.

[DPG21920]

They had an easy path.

[RD2191]

They had an easy path.

So did the warriors tbh fwiw imo

[DPG21920]

So did the warriors tbh fwiw imo

No doubt. But in context that is why I”m saying the CP3 deal can’t just be judged on them reaching the WCF. They have to make ground up on Golden State and outside of a tremendous regular season and taking care of business they absolutely had to take care of in the playoffs vs weak opponents, this series vs GS is how things will be judged.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m not saying if they get killed that they were idiots for trying this. It was a great offseason for HOU and they looked great overall. But fair or not, it’s all about GS and even Morey said as much with regards to pushing to build something that can topple GS.

[spursistan]

This nigga looks about to fall off a cliff, tbh :lol

Outside a couple games against a Rubio-less Jazz, he's been overall underwhelming in this postseason. Would definitely look to keep Capela over him in the offseason if I were Morey..

[SpurOutofTownFan]

This nigga looks about to fall off a cliff, tbh :lol

Outside a couple games against a Rubio-less Jazz, he's been overall underwhelming in this postseason. Would definitely look to keep Capela over him in the offseason if I were Morey..

unbelievable the bullet the Spurs dodged there

[spursistan]

unbelievable the bullet the Spurs dodged there
Obviously beggars can't be choosers, but yeah, no way in hell he is worth 30 millions$ contract at age 33 with signs of decline already showing..

[Clipper Nation]

This nigga looks about to fall off a cliff, tbh :lol

Outside a couple games against a Rubio-less Jazz, he's been overall underwhelming in this postseason. Would definitely look to keep Capela over him in the offseason if I were Morey..

Thanks for gifting us Lou Williams and Montrezl Harrell, Rockets :toast

[DAF86]

unbelievable the bullet the Spurs dodged there

What bullet? Rockets didn't give anything significant to get him and are now in position to contend for the title in big part thanks to that move. He was definitely worth the risk, even if it's just for a loan of 1 season.

And that's without even taking into consideration that the Rockets are one of the main candidates to land Lebron, after that move.

[spursistan]

Thanks for gifting us Lou Williams and Montrezl Harrell, Rockets :toast
Jerry West knew when to cut the cord. CP3, at best, will only be a slightly better version of Mavs Jason Kidd. (ie. not good enough to be 2nd best player on title team). Imagine then while on 30 millions albatross until age 38.

The Rockets are screwed going forward if this the best they could get out of him in Year 1. Only way is down for him..

[Clipper Nation]

Jerry West knew when to cut the cord. CP3, at best, will only be a slightly better version of Mavs Jason Kidd. (ie. not good enough to be 2nd best player on title team). Imagine then while on 30 millions albatross until age 38.

The Rockets are screwed going forward if this the best they could get out of him in Year 1. Only way is down for him..
Not only that, but they traded a young beast on the rise (Harrell) for a nursing home point guard.

[cd98]

Not only that, but they traded a young beast on the rise (Harrell) for a nursing home point guard.

I think that's a little unfair. Paul looked good for stretches in the third when he led a run that cut GWS lead to 22.

[Killakobe81]

Not only that, but they traded a young beast on the rise (Harrell) for a nursing home point guard.

No way Paul turned down supermax without an understanding he would be made whole this off-season. Maybe they avoid supermax but this cat is getting paid this off-season.

[cd98]

No way Paul turned down supermax without an understanding he would be made whole this off-season. Maybe they avoid supermax but this cat is getting paid this off-season.

I don't think Paul was eligible for the Supermax. I think you can only get it if you are on the team that originally drafted you. He did turn down some max money though.

[exstatic]

No way Paul turned down supermax without an understanding he would be made whole this off-season. Maybe they avoid supermax but this cat is getting paid this off-season.

Paul wasn't eligible for the SuperMax, and for the same reason that Kawhi loses eligability if/when he gets traded. You can only get it from the team that signed you to your first rookie contract OR from your next team, if you are traded on your rookie deal like Harden was from OKC to HOU. Paul is now on his THIRD team and long past his rookie contract. The SuperMax was designed to allow original teams to retain their own players.

[Clipper Nation]

I think that's a little unfair. Paul looked good for stretches in the third when he led a run that cut GWS lead to 22.
:lol CP0 really is amazing at padding his stats when the game is already decided. He cares more about his box score looking good so he doesn't get blamed for losing than actually winning the game.

[Clipper Nation]

I don't think Paul was eligible for the Supermax. I think you can only get it if you are on the team that originally drafted you. He did turn down some max money though.
CP0 was eligible for the supermax - and still is, since he opted in to the final year of his current contract in order to make the trade happen.

[Killakobe81]

I don't think Paul was eligible for the Supermax. I think you can only get it if you are on the team that originally drafted you. He did turn down some max money though.

My poor use of the term "super"...thanks for the clarification. I was speaking of that 5th year at max dollars.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

What bullet? Rockets didn't give anything significant to get him and are now in position to contend for the title in big part thanks to that move. He was definitely worth the risk, even if it's just for a loan of 1 season.

And that's without even taking into consideration that the Rockets are one of the main candidates to land Lebron, after that move.

The bullet was what the Spurs could have given up to get him - he's like a dead man out there. So bullet dodged indeed.

[tholdren]

He will be a notch below nash, with similar style of play.

And im right again... never wrong

[DAF86]

The bullet was what the Spurs could have given up to get him - he's like a dead man out there. So bullet dodged indeed.

CP3 looked perfectly fine untill a game ago. Spurs could have definitely used him this past season, tbh.

Also, what valuable assets could the Spurs have given away, Anderson and Mills? CROFL.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

CP3 looked perfectly fine untill a game ago. Spurs could have definitely used him this past season, tbh.

Also, what valuable assets could the Spurs have given away, Anderson and Mills? CROFL.

I can see you aren't getting my point. Missing the mark.

It doesn't matter what the Spurs could have given or whether CP3 stopped playing a game ago (actually has sucked the entire post season, tbh). What matters is that there was strong interest and CP3 decided to join Houston instead.

Looking at how he's currently choking I'd say the Spurs dodged a bullet

[DAF86]

I can see you aren't getting my point. Missing the mark.

It doesn't matter what the Spurs could have given or whether CP3 stopped playing a game ago (actually has sucked the entire post season, tbh). What matters is that there was strong interest and CP3 decided to join Houston instead.

Looking at how he's currently choking I'd say the Spurs dodged a bullet

First of all, it's a lie he has been sucking all postseason. How do you manage to suck all postseason while averaging 21 ppg, 6 apg, 6 rpg and 2 spg while having a .568 TS%?

And yeah, I know the Spurs showed interested and he decided to join Houston, so? That's not an opinion, that's a fact. The opinion here is that you think he is sucking, while he really isn't. Spurs would have been a much better team this season if they had had a CP3 to create some offense, tbh.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

First of all, it's a lie he has been sucking all postseason. How do you manage to suck all postseason while averaging 21 ppg, 6 apg, 6 rpg and 2 spg while having a .568 TS%?

And yeah, I know the Spurs showed interested and he decided to join Houston, so? That's not an opinion, that's a fact. The opinion here is that you think he is sucking, while he really isn't. Spurs would have been a much better team this season if they had had a CP3 to create some offense, tbh.

ok whatever

please don't quote stats - individual stats don't mean anything. just watch the games that matter and how he chocked. Please also don't quote stats skewed by the Utah series - he played no counterpart (no Rubio)

[DAF86]

ok whatever

please don't quote stats - individual stats don't mean anything. just watch the games that matter and how he chocked. Please also don't quote stats skewed by the Utah series - he played no counterpart (no Rubio)

So what stats can I use son? :lol

[Clipper Nation]

First of all, it's a lie he has been sucking all postseason. How do you manage to suck all postseason while averaging 21 ppg, 6 apg, 6 rpg and 2 spg while having a .568 TS%?

^ Posts like these are why CP0 always starts padding his stats like crazy once he's "led" his team to a 20+ point deficit in must-win games. Because he knows his fanboys will always be fooled by his stats and will blame everyone else but him.

[DAF86]

^ Posts like these are why CP0 always starts padding his stats like crazy once he's "led" his team to a 20+ point deficit in must-win games. Because he knows his fanboys will always be fooled by his stats and will blame everyone else but him.

This postseason I counted at least two or three ocassions in which the Rockets would have lost a game they ended up winning if not for having Paul to make up for Harden's inconsistent playoff ass.

[Clipper Nation]

This postseason I counted at least two or three ocassions in which the Rockets would have lost a game they ended up winning if not for having Paul to make up for Harden's inconsistent playoff ass.
:lol This postseason, he's looked old and washed whenever the other team actually has any healthy guards.

[DejuanorwhatDude]

The dude choked in the biggest game of his professional career. He and Harden need to show up next game or its over.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Rockets are going to lose to the Warriors 4-1. In other words, they’re as good as the Spurs minus Kawhi against the league’s best.

CP3 made the Rockets a little better though. Regular season champs!!

[SpurOutofTownFan]

So what stats can I use son? :lol

son? no jodas loco - en serio - te olvidaste de donde venis?

[rjv]

CP3 needs to at least get some big games in this series to dispel the notion that he vanishes in big moments. harden too for that matter.

[DPG21920]

Rockets are going to lose to the Warriors 4-1. In other words, they’re as good as the Spurs minus Kawhi against the league’s best.

CP3 made the Rockets a little better though. Regular season champs!!

I mean, I hate the Rockets, but they had a great season and made it to the WCF. Unfortunately the way they built isn’t anywhere close to enough to besting this GS team and probably the wrong style of play.

[rjv]

I mean, I hate the Rockets, but they had a great season and made it to the WCF. Unfortunately the way they built isn’t anywhere close to enough to besting this GS team and probably the wrong style of play.

....and a crappy coach.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I mean, I hate the Rockets, but they had a great season and made it to the WCF. Unfortunately the way they built isn’t anywhere close to enough to besting this GS team and probably the wrong style of play.

They did. Unfortunately for the rest of the league the Warriors are just far superior right now. I hate Durant, but he’s made an already great team virtually bullet-proof added to what they already have.

Realistically the Rockets are second-best. It’s just a big chasm between nos. 1&2.

[DAF86]

son? no jodas loco - en serio - te olvidaste de donde venis?

No, do you even know where I come from? :lol

[SpurOutofTownFan]

No, do you even know where I come from? :lol

It's good enough that you understood what I said

[DAF86]

It's good enough that you understood what I said

Are you on crack or something? :lol

[DAF86]

This nigga looks about to fall off a cliff, tbh :lol

Outside a couple games against a Rubio-less Jazz, he's been overall underwhelming in this postseason. Would definitely look to keep Capela over him in the offseason if I were Morey..


unbelievable the bullet the Spurs dodged there


:lol CP0 really is amazing at padding his stats when the game is already decided. He cares more about his box score looking good so he doesn't get blamed for losing than actually winning the game.


Rockets are going to lose to the Warriors 4-1. In other words, they’re as good as the Spurs minus Kawhi against the league’s best.

CP3 made the Rockets a little better though. Regular season champs!!

Such a dodged bullet. :lol

[cd98]

Welp Chris Paul was winning that game while MVP Harden was bringing threes in crunch time.

[TheGreatYacht]

But is he worth trading away key pieces like Green and Anderson?

[SpurPadre]

I hate the Dubs so much, I want the Rockets to take this series, tbh.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I hate the Warriors more than I hate the Rockets, but GSW is still going to win. The Warriors played like crap and only lost by 3.

I wish both teams could lose.

[Play Boban]

:wow CP4 :wow

[daslicer]

I hate the Warriors more than I hate the Rockets, but GSW is still going to win. The Warriors played like crap and only lost by 3.

I wish both teams could lose.

I agree

[coachmac87]

I hate the Warriors more than I hate the Rockets, but GSW is still going to win. The Warriors played like crap and only lost by 3.

I wish both teams could lose.


But you could be wrong like you were calling it 4-1...

[apalisoc_9]

But is he worth trading away key pieces like Green and Anderson?

Spurstalk wannabe geeks. :lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I hate the Warriors more than I hate the Rockets, but GSW is still going to win. The Warriors played like crap and only lost by 3.

I wish both teams could lose.

Winning again in Houston will be tough though. And warriors panic in crunch time with their shot selection.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Such a dogged bullet. :lol

:lmao seriously

The only one who dodged a bullet was Paul smartly not signing with SA

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

But you could be wrong like you were calling it 4-1...

True. I never expected a 12 point GSW 4th quarter. :lol

Part of me would like to see Pringles finally break through...if it’s against the Warriors.

[DPG21920]

CP3 roasted them tonight. But awful coaching by Kerr in the fourth doomed them. GS is clearly better but they just kill themselves with Hubris over and over.

HOU is good enough to beat you if you beat yourself. They will and did take advantage. :lmao scoring a season low quarter at home to choke away a 12 point 4th quarter lead :lmao

[coachmac87]

True. I never expected a 12 point GSW 4th quarter. :lol

Part of me would like to see Pringles finally break through...if it’s against the Warriors.

Never forget Warriors are mentally weak and can get shook...including Durant.

Both blew 3-1 leads in epic fashion

[Gummi Clutch]

I hate the Warriors more than I hate the Rockets, but GSW is still going to win. The Warriors played like crap and only lost by 3.

I wish both teams could lose.
rockets shot 39%.

Only CP3 played well.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Such a dodged bullet. :lol

Premature ejaculation

[DAF86]

Premature ejaculation

What premature ejeculation? I fully expect the Warriors to win the next 2. That still doesn't make your statement any less dumb, tbh.

Are you really judging the entire CP3 move solely on Houston's knocking, arguably, the greatest team of all-time off? :lol

[SpurOutofTownFan]

What premature ejeculation? I fully expect the Warriors to win the next 2. That still doesn't make your statement any less dumb, tbh.

LOL CP3 is washed son ROLF

[Amuseddaysleeper]

LOL CP3 is washed son ROLF

Still better than 99 percent of the Spurs roster

[DAF86]

LOL CP3 is washed son ROLF

Yeah, he sure looked washed up tonight. :lol

[DPG21920]

Can you imagine the meltdown on here if SA, at home in a WCF, blew a 12 point 4th quarter lead to Houston? Have a 12 point lead with like 10 minutes left and watch the lead go away while your star player is “resting” and you have Swaggy/Liv/Bell on the floor together and the team scores a measly 12 4th quarter points :lmao

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Can you imagine the meltdown on here if SA, at home in a WCF, blew a 12 point 4th quarter lead to Houston? Have a 12 point lead with like 10 minutes left and watch the lead go away while your star player is “resting” and you have Swaggy/Liv/Bell on the floor together and the team scores a measly 12 4th quarter points :lmao

Would still rather be in the Warriors position than the Spurs right now ;)

I think that did happen to the Spurs in Game 4 of the 2007 WCSF against the Suns. Something similar.

[DPG21920]

Klay Thompson looking like a worse version of Danny Green. Can’t dribble or create. Defense been meh overall.

[daslicer]

Klay Thompson looking like a worse version of Danny Green. Can’t dribble or create. Defense been meh overall.

He wasn't the same after that knee injury earlier in the game.

[DPG21920]

He wasn't the same after that knee injury earlier in the game.

Hes’ been bad the entire playoffs overall, especially this series well before that knee

[Hoops Czar]

Hes’ been bad the entire playoffs overall, especially this series well before that knee
Danny Green's been awful for three years. Not seeing the comparison.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Yeah, he sure looked washed up tonight. :lol

Frankly, I'm not hating, I actually wanted him to go to the Spurs last year and went on record, but I clearly misjudged his level of contribution at this time of his career.

Fireworks and champagne for one night doesn't make a difference - he's clearly on the decline. I can see he wasn't worth blowing up the Spurs' roster.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Still better than 99 percent of the Spurs roster

mmmmmhh no... not even close.. you aren't serious, right?

[Maddog]

Frankly, I'm not hating, I actually wanted him to go to the Spurs last year and went on record, but I clearly misjudged his level of contribution at this time of his career.

Fireworks and champagne for one night doesn't make a difference - he's clearly on the decline. I can see he wasn't worth blowing up the Spurs' roster.

I was lukewarm about it, dependent on what the Spurs had to give up. It would have been a one to two year swing for the fences with a long term cost.
I think the Spurs could have covered up his areas of decline better than the Rockets (if Leonard was healthy).
Looking at the two conference finals- you can see the that the Spurs if healthy may not have been that far off..

[r0drig0lac]

But is he worth trading away key pieces like Green and Anderson?

[$pursDynasty]

to me it appears that Harden was gassed and was about to have the same appearance as he had against us in game 6 last year in the 2nd half when Chris Paul took them on home last night. It is still the Dub's series in my opinion, the Rox were fighting for their lives last night if they would have lost even by 1 point the narrative about the coach and two star players would have been ringing from the rooftops. TBH last night was an example of how some on ST have suggested the Spurs could/would/should work in the future. Let LMA be the focus early on get his touches and carry the team through the first 2.5 quarters and then for the last 1.5 quarters let Kiwi take over and take us home. Harden had a good game but for the last third of it he looked spent and CP3 took the reigns.

[rjv]

CP3 finally delivered. he really got into draymond's head too. draymond is such an idiot. the dude gets way too much hype.

[rjv]

to me it appears that Harden was gassed and was about to have the same appearance as he had against us in game 6 last year in the 2nd half when Chris Paul took them on home last night. It is still the Dub's series in my opinion, the Rox were fighting for their lives last night if they would have lost even by 1 point the narrative about the coach and two star players would have been ringing from the rooftops. TBH last night was an example of how some on ST have suggested the Spurs could/would/should work in the future. Let LMA be the focus early on get his touches and carry the team through the first 2.5 quarters and then for the last 1.5 quarters let Kiwi take over and take us home. Harden had a good game but for the last third of it he looked spent and CP3 took the reigns.

i think GS gets the next two games also as i'm sure kerr will get into their collective asses about getting some focus. the showboating and trash talking was their demise last night. warriors are so damn arrogant.

[gambit1990]

27 on 50% shooting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3JFTTc3J6M

[DPG21920]

Danny Green's been awful for three years. Not seeing the comparison.

Playoff Klay has been worse than playoff Danny historically

[spurraider21]

Playoff Klay has been worse than playoff Danny historically
no... not really. its true that green plays above his average and klay plays below his, but klay's output still dwarfs green's.

[Spurs da champs]

Playoff Klay has been worse than playoff Danny historically

Yeah other then scoring on Fatsy and Forbes, Klay has been meh. But Curry has been garbage as well.

Curry got blocked 3 times last night that I recall and 2 were by Gerald Green. :lol

[DAF86]

mmmmmhh no... not even close.. you aren't serious, right?

Who's better, Patty Mills, Kyle Anderson, Dejounte? :lol

[DAF86]

Frankly, I'm not hating, I actually wanted him to go to the Spurs last year and went on record, but I clearly misjudged his level of contribution at this time of his career.

Fireworks and champagne for one night doesn't make a difference - he's clearly on the decline. I can see he wasn't worth blowing up the Spurs' roster.

That's your problem son, it hasn't been just one night.

[superbigtime]

CP3 had a signature game last night. Made tough shots. I was impressed.

[DPG21920]

no... not really. its true that green plays above his average and klay plays below his, but klay's output still dwarfs green's.

Not really tbh..if you are going by raw stats, maybe (offensively), but when you normalize for shooting, efficiency, defense and impact? He’s been worse than Danny in the playoffs or pretty damn close overall career wise.

[DPG21920]

Danny Green PO Career: PER - 13.2 / True Shooting: .57 / REB% 7.4 / AST% 6.9 / STL% 2.1 / BLK% 2.8 / Win Shares Per 48: .113 / BoxScore Plus Minus: 4.5 / VORP 4.1

Klay Thompson PO Career: PER - 13.8 / True Shooting: .54 / REB% 5 / AST% 10 / STL% 1.2 / BLK% 1.2 / Win Shares Per 48: .091 / BoxScore Plus Minus: .8 / VORP 2.4

So not only does Klay see a massvie dip across the board in the playoffs, he grades out worse overall than Danny in virtually every impact metric in the playoffs as well.

Any box score advantage is simply due to volume at this point and we have 6 years of data for Klay and 8 years of data for Danny.

[SuperCam]

:worthy: Point God :worthy:

[Ice009]

He's hurt his hamstring again, though. LOL.

Houston are looking like they can win this, but if Chris Paul's hamstring is gone, Warriors may yet again get lucky. Chris Paul and Eric Gordon bailed Harden's ass out this game. Chris Paul has bailed out Harden two games in a row. I don't like Houston's chances if Chris Paul is injured for the rest of this series.

It seems Chris Paul is doing great as a second option, but in actuality, both him and Harden seem to choke as first options in big games.

[KDKSpurs24]

He’s been balling. But Chris Paul can never last a whole playoffs. I guess he may have reached his quota of playoff games before injury. I hope not tho. I want a great finish to this series.

[DAF86]

What would have been a 4-1 series loss is a 3-2 advantage. That's the difference a top 10 player makes.

But we dodged a bullet, apparently.

[SuperCam]

The Spurs dodged a bullet, tbh, just like the Clippers did. Choke-P is a career loser who isn't worth a fraction of the money he's demanding, especially at his age. I still see the Spurs winning more games and going further in the playoffs than the Rockets.

:lmao

so much faggotry on the first few pages. Point God is one WIN away from an all time championship run :wow

[Ice009]

I've actually been thinking about it, and a few days ago, I decided even though I fucking hate Houston, I'd rather they win so Lebron doesn't go there. I'd also like the Celtics to win the series so he wants to leave. I was thinking those two scenarios would be the best chance the Spurs might have to get him to come.

I just thought of another scenario, though. What if Goldenstate lose and Durant leaves to team up with Lebron? They both could walk to the Lakers. That would not be good.

[DPG21920]

Look, HOU gets credit, but GS is playing the WORST basketball I’ve ever seen. In both HOU wins HOU shot sub 40%!!! And CP/Gerald Green had to hit some of the hardest most flukiest shots I’ve ever seen just to get there.

HOU is playing hard and defending well but that is due in large part to GS making it easy on them to do so and playing completely opposite of how they normally play due to absolute carelessness, turn overs and bailing on trusting each other. It’s truly astounding to see.

[DPG21920]

But of course CP gets hurt! Unreal. I feel legit awful for him. He’s so close and of course he gets injured when HOU is on the brink of one of the biggest upsets ever in sports.

[DPG21920]

This is truly a massive choke job and I cannot believe GS is so damn lucky and gets CP3 injured so they can coast to another title. Freaking sucks.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Look, HOU gets credit, but GS is playing the WORST basketball I’ve ever seen. In both HOU wins HOU shot sub 40%!!! And CP/Gerald Green had to hit some of the hardest most flukiest shots I’ve ever seen just to get there.

HOU is playing hard and defending well but that is due in large part to GS making it easy on them to do so and playing completely opposite of how they normally play due to absolute carelessness, turn overs and bailing on trusting each other. It’s truly astounding to see.

I’m also shocked at the lack of intensity from GS

[SuperCam]

This is truly a massive choke job and I cannot believe GS is so damn lucky and gets CP3 injured so they can coast to another title. Freaking sucks.

Point God will tough it out like he did G7 in 2015. you too used to spur injury-pussy culture that Pop has created

[KDKSpurs24]

But of course CP gets hurt! Unreal. I feel legit awful for him. He’s so close and of course he gets injured when HOU is on the brink of one of the biggest upsets ever in sports.
This was expected. He lasted longer than I thought though. It’s kinda why I didnt want him. I don’t remember a playoffs where Chris Paul DIDNT get injured. He was due.

[Gummi Clutch]

Look, HOU gets credit, but GS is playing the WORST basketball I’ve ever seen. In both HOU wins HOU shot sub 40%!!! And CP/Gerald Green had to hit some of the hardest most flukiest shots I’ve ever seen just to get there.

HOU is playing hard and defending well but that is due in large part to GS making it easy on them to do so and playing completely opposite of how they normally play due to absolute carelessness, turn overs and bailing on trusting each other. It’s truly astounding to see.
Right, let me get this straight...for the first 10 games before this series GS played just like last year's GS and just miraculously decided to lay an egg like this on purpose, sabotaging their offense. Its the defense dummy.

[wingster]

CP3 will play again this series. May rest up in game 6 though. He seemed fine when walking to or from the locker room.

[r0drig0lac]

Right, let me get this straight...for the first 10 games before this series GS played just like last year's GS and just miraculously decided to lay an egg like this on purpose, sabotaging their offense. Its the defense dummy.

hilarious, rox was the best team in the league since the start of the season, but some believe that even spurs without Kawhi could beat them, spurstalk homerism at its best

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Rockets have impressed. But GSW have been surprisingly awful though. Really bad decision-making and an overall lack of intensity. And Kerr’s taking that laissez-faire attitude towards it that Pop has displayed after losses here lately. Maybe you just get fat and happy after enough winning that it just doesn’t matter as much as it used to.

Rockets are winning on will at this point. They’ve clearly wanted it more.

[Spurs9]

This team will be looking to win game 6.
https://i.imgur.com/7Qb65oC.jpg

[cd98]

Sad because it would've been nice to see Houston knock GSW out of the playoffs. I dislike both teams, but I'm tired of the NBA et large conceding every season to GSW.

[Poolboy5623]

CP3 will play again this series. May rest up in game 6 though. He seemed fine when walking to or from the locker room.

...and if he could get away with "walking" on the court, he'd probably be fine..

[boutons_deux]

I bet that hammy is more sore the day after.

Really a tough blow for HOU.

[tholdren]

Durant mia in elimination game. Klay da real mvp

[tbdog]

Durant mia in elimination game. Klay da real mvp

Always said Klay has the balls of the team. Curry and Durant don't have the mentality.

[daslicer]

This move didn't make a difference for the Rox with Chris getting injury. I say this because Chris is an injury prone player that you can't count on to stay healthy during the playoffs. The last few years have proven this.

[SpursBig3s]

Per Woj, CP3 won’t take anything less than the max

[DPG21920]

Also, with the benefit of hindsight, this CP3 type deal should have been so obvious. We knew 2 things: 1) CP leaving LAC was a legit possiblity & 2) He abused his power as a players union president basically to get that new contract in his favor :lol

So knowing those two things, him leaving LAC would only happen via trade since we know he was damn well not going to give up that money. Not only that, TX should have been obvious since not only is getting the same deal he could get in LAC a big deal, but getting it in TX MEANS EVEN MORE MONEY FOR THAT SAME DEAL.


Per Woj, CP3 won’t take anything less than the max

This was obvious - CP has always been about money (nothing wrong with that)