2017 Vegas Summer League Game 1: Spurs vs Heat - 7:00 PM CT - 3:00 AM Riga

[BatManu20]

This has been a shitty summer league. No one has been that encouraging.

Forbes, despite that miss, has shown considerable improvement tbh.

[sasaint]

Who is Wayne Shittington? had a solid game.

First game he hasn't looked like garbage.

[tonight...you]

They should have won that game. They were up most of the game. Dijon's TO and bad shots really sapped momentum at the end.
Summer league can make players look worse than they are, but Murray is killing himself here.
He does good things like rebound and has the ability to play well and then he goes off the pasture and shit that just shouldn't happen keeps happening.

His dribbling is disgusting and the fact that he hasn't worked on shortening and cleaning it up is either a direct indictment on him, or on the coaching staff who absolutely should have been harping on it from Day 0.
I like the kid and he has things to his game that makes you want him to succeed, because if he does, he could succeed greatly with his natural gifts, but dammit, he still plays like a high school kid on the concrete.

He could probably be a star on the And1 thing, although I don't know if that even exists anymore. I stopped watching after Jason Williams.

[Atl Spur]

That patty signing looking really good.......

[SAGirl]

Murray definitely a huge disappointment so far. Blew his last two possessions and let London fucking Perrantes drop 6 straight points on him to end the game.
I was going to point his out but I am going to piggyback on your post if you don't mind.
That is exactly what I saw, no communication on defense, and was giving away straight line drives a couple of times in a row to close out that game. Then offensively he couldn't convert his opportunities.
I'd say he needs more dleague. He's still the youngest dude in that team and him having the one season in the Spurs wouldn't necessarily mean he's ahead in terms of development. He is still very raw.

[SPURt]

Forbes, despite that miss, has shown considerable improvement tbh.
That's true but I don't think many of us wanted Forbes a part of the Spurs long term plans. Would've much preferred to see Murray, Bertrans, White, or Blossomgame carrying the team.

[ceperez]

First game he hasn't looked like garbage.

Got terrible hands. Has a lot of trouble finishing in the paint.

The sad thing is that he's getting a lot more minutes than Lallane. That is not a good sign for Cady.

[raybies]

so i left at the end of the second half cause we were up 10 and figured it would be a blowout. Wth did I miss?

[sasaint]

Forbes, despite that miss, has shown considerable improvement tbh.

As discouraged as I am by Dijon's play, I am that much encouraged by Forbes' play. He is showing steady development.

Overall, though, this summer league team hasn't gotten me excited, and nobody except Forbes has really been very encouraging.

[SAGirl]

Summer league can make players look worse than they are, but Murray is killing himself here.
He does good things like rebound and has the ability to play well and then he goes off the pasture and shit that just shouldn't happen keeps happening.

His dribbling is disgusting and the fact that he hasn't worked on shortening and cleaning it up is either a direct indictment on him, or on the coaching staff who absolutely should have been harping on it from Day 0.
I like the kid and he has things to his game that makes you want him to succeed, because if he does, he could succeed greatly with his natural gifts, but dammit, he still plays like a high school kid on the concrete.

He could probably be a star on the And1 thing, although I don't know if that even exists anymore. I stopped watching after Jason Williams.
:lol He just has special genetic gifts but he's still as they say a couple of years away. Got to keep pounding that rock. he doesn't have an offensive game that is reliable right now. The floater makes me cringe. I hope he continues to put the work in the summer... but I wouldn't assume he's going to be given anything. Going to have to earn it.

[ceperez]

That's true but I don't think many of us wanted Forbes a part of the Spurs long term plans. Would've much preferred to see Murray, Bertrans, White, or Blossomgame carrying the team.

You don't pick the guy who is good on paper. You pick the guy who plays solid and is making improvement. Murray sucked. Bertans couldn't hit many open shots. You can't expect White or Blossomgame to shine, they are deferring to these 3 other players.

Honestly, White is a much better PG than Murray. He's got better vision, better handles and better passing.

[SAGirl]

so i left at the end of the second half cause we were up 10 and figured it would be a blowout. Wth did I miss?
Dijon sucking pretty much.

[picnroll]

the spurs have a lot question mark at the point guard position.

They don't have any question marks. They don't have a PG.

[ceperez]

Dijon sucking pretty much.

No 29 pick from last year. I don't think we got a steal. The Bucks got a steal by picking up Brogdon at #36. Spurs gambled and lost big time.

[raybies]

Dijon sucking pretty much.
so would you say he like blew the game?

[tonight...you]

:lol He just has special genetic gifts but he's still as they say a couple of years away. Got to keep pounding that rock. he doesn't have an offensive game that is reliable right now. The floater makes me cringe. I hope he continues to put the work in the summer... but I wouldn't assume he's going to be given anything. Going to have to earn it.
If I was Pop, I would inform all the players on the court with Dejounte to slap him on the back of his head as hard as they can, every time he goes for that garbage floater.
Then call him to the bench so he can be proper slapped in the face like in RockNRolla.

[sasaint]

Got terrible hands. Has a lot of trouble finishing in the paint.

The sad thing is that he's getting a lot more minutes than Lallane. That is not a good sign for Cady.

I was hoping either Jefferson or Lalanne might prove to be a gem, but I don't get the sense that either one would blow me away, even if they did get more minutes. But playing Whittington that much is an indictment of the Cady and Cory.

[ceperez]

:lol He just has special genetic gifts but he's still as they say a couple of years away. Got to keep pounding that rock. he doesn't have an offensive game that is reliable right now. The floater makes me cringe. I hope he continues to put the work in the summer... but I wouldn't assume he's going to be given anything. Going to have to earn it.

Is he even a basketball player or just some guy who thinks he's an elite basketball player.

He can't shoot, can't dribble and can't pass. What the hell?

[ceperez]

I was hoping either Jefferson or Lalanne might prove to be a gem, but I don't get the sense that either one would blow me away, even if they did get more minutes. But playing Whittington that much is an indictment of the Cady and Cory.

There are plenty of bigs elsewhere. Heck, that Auguste guy was better than all our bigs.

[raybies]

I got to watch the second half but we just need to chill on the Dijon front. He hasn't had that much time to improve since the end of the season. He hasn't went to work out yet with Kawhi etc. Summer league is only a few weeks after the season so anyone expecting major upgrades might be disappointed. We seen him playing off the starters and he did much better. They are just developing his decision making skills, which at this point need a lot of work. But he should be fine with lesser responsibility, with better players so he can play off them. He showed he could do that in the Playoffs. He's still really young. He'll most likely be in Summer League next year too. I didn't see the second half be in the first he appeared to play under control and made some nice plays. I must admit though he did Westbrook some rebounds though so I wouldn't look too much in those numbers. My biggest gripe is that he needs to value the ball but then again we seen Simmons have turnover-fests last year or the year before too when they were developing him as a playmaker. This is the time he needs to make these mistakes...

[tonight...you]

Is he even a basketball player or just some guy who thinks he's an elite basketball player.

He can't shoot, can't dribble and can't pass. What the hell?
He's all instincts and talent and that shit ain't gonna cut it, in the Big Leagues. He absolutely has to instill discipline into his game.
I'm wondering if Pop and Co are fostering him being him, or is he not working on his flaws, like he should be?

I'm glad Pop and RC were at the game to see 1st hand what this kid is doing right now.

[sasaint]

They don't have any question marks. They don't have a PG.

A big collection of works-in-progress combo guards is what it looks like to me. I am scaring myself with the thought that Forbes may be earning quite a few minutes at the expense of Dijon (and White).

[ceperez]

I got to watch the second half but we just need to chill on the Dijon front. He hasn't had that much time to improve since the end of the season. He hasn't went to work out yet with Kawhi etc. Summer league is only a few weeks after the season so anyone expecting major upgrades might be disappointed. We seen him playing off the starters and he did much better. They are just developing his decision making skills, which at this point need a lot of work. But he should be fine with lesser responsibility, with better players so he can play off them. He showed he could do that in the Playoffs. He's still really young. He'll most likely be in Summer League next year too. I didn't see the second half be in the first he appeared to play under control and made some nice plays. I must admit though he did Westbrook some rebounds though so I wouldn't look too much in those numbers.

I got no problems having him spend his time in G-league learning how to protect the ball.

[TimDunkem]

Should've just drafted Brogdon. Smfh

[Hoops Czar]

I got no problems having him spend his time in G-league learning how to protect the ball.
Remember when this nig was untouchable? Good times.

[John B]

I am really liking Forbes. His hard cuts to free-up. He's learned to become a better ball handler. I'm telling you he is outplaying Murray. Now Whittington is intriguing with his better than 40% 3 pointer, good bruiser. I just don't know how good he depends PNR

[SuperCam]

Should've just drafted Brogdon. Smfh


Dej0-10te untouchable :lmao

[Chinook]

Should've just drafted Brogdon. Smfh

Considering that they were perfectly fine drafting super-seniors the very next year, yeah. I can see wanting to get 19-year-old for the future upside. But Brogdon/Bolden or Brogdon/Bell would have answered a lot of questions right now, and they could have used this second on GLdP if they wanted a guy with a high ceiling but lower floor for a PG prospect.

Hopefully all three of these guys will play better with the big club, though.

[sasaint]

There are plenty of bigs elsewhere. Heck, that Auguste guy was better than all our bigs.

Yeah, watching him I was like "C'mon RC get that guy!" Haha. I've seen him this one time, though, so my guess is that he doesn't look like this every game. Seriously, though, isn't Miami collecting frontcourt players like we are collecting Backcourt players? Let's make a deal.

[SuperCam]

Should've just drafted Brogdon. Smfh

730086756977102848

PATFO :bang

[SAGirl]

so would you say he like blew the game?
I am going to be more neutral since you missed it:
More accurately, in the closing minutes I remember Bertans and White missing 3s and Forbes missed the 3 that could have won it, however, the team was ahead and the shots missed were good looks. Until the last seconds they had the lead. Dijon gave away the lead by the opposing guard driving to the rim twice on him on straight line drives, the game winner was by the guy he was assigned to. He missed all of his shots, one a layup, the other a floater, and he continued to have TO in the second half by getting fancy dribbling one on one. His second half in this game was bad.

Pop and RC saw all of that. I hope they aren't complacent.

[Atl Spur]

Is he even a basketball player or just some guy who thinks he's an elite basketball player.

He can't shoot, can't dribble and can't pass. What the hell?

He has work to do but you're being a little tough my friend; he's still a young dude. He better listen to the criticism with a positive open ear.....

[TimDunkem]

730086756977102848

PATFO :bang
RC isn't the great drafter everyone thinks he is. Guy has just gotten lucky a few times.

[SAGirl]

No 29 pick from last year. I don't think we got a steal. The Bucks got a steal by picking up Brogdon at #36. Spurs gambled and lost big time.
yes. Definitely Milwaukee got the steal.
Dijon is young, he can still develop. Despite my criticism it's not like I am giving up on him bc he's very young still, but he needs to improve a lot.

[raybies]

dope, the replay for the game is already on on Watch ESPN

[ace3g]

Welp, this is the last summer league game thread I make this year...

[sasaint]

yes. Definitely Milwaukee got the steal.
Dijon is young, he can still develop. Despite my criticism it's not like I am giving up on him bc he's very young still, but he needs to improve a lot.

As a fellow UVa alum, I was dying for the Spurs to draft Brogdon. But in truth, he would have never gotten the playing time in SA that he did with the Bucks. Pop would have had him in the G-league, and he never would have won ROY.

[dabom]

Welp, this is the last summer league game thread I make this year...

I don't think anyone cares who makes the GT for SL.

[Snaq O'Meal]

730086756977102848

PATFO :bang

RC Buffoon checkmated himself while other GMs were playing Checkers.

[TrainOfThought5]

That patty signing looking really good.......

As soon as he grows 3 inches and learns to distribute like a real point, maybe.

[Snaq O'Meal]

As a fellow UVa alum, I was dying for the Spurs to draft Brogdon. But in truth, he would have never gotten the playing time in SA that he did with the Bucks. Pop would have had him in the G-league, and he never would have won ROY.

Brogdon was NBA-ready. His game management was described as being similar to Andre Miller's. As soon as Parker went down, he would've been the starting PG while Pop keeps Patty with the second unit.

And with Brogdon on board, PATFO didn't need to do stupid shit like giving Patty that ridiculous contract. They could've drafted someone like Jonah Bolden to fill in a pressing need.

[tholdren]

Is he even a basketball player or just some guy who thinks he's an elite basketball player.

He can't shoot, can't dribble and can't pass. What the hell?

You nailed it. Im uncertain how you get so much hyoe in college for being really shitty at the one thing you are supposed to be good at. The playoff game where he turned it over 4 consec times before initiating offense should have been enough for the coaches to put him in ball handling 101. You hear me say it all the time, todays nba is less skilled than any other era.

[Snaq O'Meal]

RC isn't the great drafter everyone thinks he is. Guy has just gotten lucky a few times.

Getting Manu was sheer luck.

Getting Parker was due to Sam Presti's due diligence.

The Spurs even lucked out on Kawhi. They wanted Kay or Valenciunas over him.

[TimDunkem]

Brogdon was NBA-ready. His game management was described as being similar to Andre Miller's. As soon as Parker went down, he would've been the starting PG while Pop keeps Patty with the second unit.

And with Brogdon on board, PATFO didn't need to do stupid shit like giving Patty that ridiculous contract. They could've drafted someone like Jonah Bolden to fill in a pressing need.
I love how people keep using that argument. :lol The point was that Brogdon was READY to play at BOTH guard positions. He would've filled Parker's role perfectly once he went down. If not, he'd be ready to come in at anytime nonetheless.

We wouldn't be rolling the dice with two young guys who essentially play the same position, and we could've gone after another young player at a different position of need instead of stacking ourselves with unproven PGs.

[sasaint]

Brogdon was NBA-ready. His game management was described as being similar to Andre Miller's. As soon as Parker went down, he would've been the starting PG while Pop keeps Patty with the second unit.

And with Brogdon on board, PATFO didn't need to do stupid shit like giving Patty that ridiculous contract. They could've drafted someone like Jonah Bolden to fill in a pressing need.

Yeah, maybe. I don't like to think about it any more. He was the most Spursy guy ever in the draft both on and off the court, and he was dying to play for us, and he filled a need. But that brilliant PATFO...

I was personally crushed that we passed on him. :(

[sasaint]

RC Buffoon checkmated himself while other GMs were playing Checkers.

Well played! :toast

[SAGirl]

As a fellow UVa alum, I was dying for the Spurs to draft Brogdon. But in truth, he would have never gotten the playing time in SA that he did with the Bucks. Pop would have had him in the G-league, and he never would have won ROY.
of course.
then when he plays, he doesn't have rhythm nor chemistry and guys would be complaining team got a 24 year old senior citizen from college.. and he can't play, nor is he going to get better bc he's old (that one is me with the ageism :lol) :P then you have TD 21 saying they still have questions in the perimeter and Manu saying he's going to come back for another year to save the day. Would that have summarized Brogdon to the Spurs his rook season?:toast

[tholdren]

Yeah, maybe. I don't like to think about it any more. He was the most Spursy guy ever in the draft both on and off the court, and he was dying to play for us, and he filled a need. But that brilliant PATFO...

I was personally crushed that we passed on him. :(

Spurs trying to find long pg that can score by attacking. Its what theyve had success with. If murray wasnt so dumb hed be a good player.

[SPURt]

You don't pick the guy who is good on paper. You pick the guy who plays solid and is making improvement. Murray sucked. Bertans couldn't hit many open shots. You can't expect White or Blossomgame to shine, they are deferring to these 3 other players.

Honestly, White is a much better PG than Murray. He's got better vision, better handles and better passing.
I agree with you on all the above.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Should've just drafted Brogdon. Smfh

You think the Bucks will trade Brogdon for Murray?

After all, Murray supposedly has much higher upside, and was drafted by the best front office in the business (or so some claimed).

[tholdren]

I agree with you on all the above.

But.... and i hate murray type players.... when spurs need a bucket murray is still the better option at this point if it comes down to him and white.

[TimDunkem]

Hmm...A long PG that can attack, actually play the point, and has the versatility to play the other guard position?...Not sure who they could've drafted last year other than Murray who could've done all those things...Oh wait..

Edit: Can't seem to embed this shit, but just take a look: https://youtu.be/XHtCPGSS5sc?t=19s

[TimDunkem]

You think the Bucks will trade Brogdon for Murray?

After all, Murray supposedly has much higher upside, and was drafted by the best front office in the business (or so some claimed).
Maybe, but Murray is untouchable. :lmao

[ace3g]

San Antonio Spurs spurs
(https://twitter.com/spurs) 11m (https://twitter.com/spurs/status/883890235750236160)
Fell short, but we're back tomorrow. Coach Hardy: gospu.rs/2tCfrD2 (https://t.co/FyPkt6y5WJ) Bryn: gospu.rs/2uXdccL (https://t.co/9YjKjUJ1UG) Dejounte: gospu.rs/2tVyR8j (https://t.co/FG44vwjti1)

[raybies]

I think with Murray it all comes down to maturity. That's all it is imo. He has so much talent, he just needs to know his spots better.

Just finished watching the second half and I think there is a lot of overreaction going on here.

Four pick and rolls about near the end with Perrantes. When Bertans was the defender the team defense won out but Wayne was the defender Perrantes scored both times. I think yall are ragging on DJ too much. It really is Wayne tbh. Cause Bertans knew exactly what to do. Wayne played the coverage really bad. Still though there are not a lot of good defenders on summer Spurs.

Also I don't mind the shots DJ shot at the end. He just missed them. We know he needs work finishing. He tried to make something happen and missed. Oh well.

I'm not gonna defend his high dribble or loose handles but Simmons was the same way and if he could tighten them up enough to be serviceable then I have no doubt DJ can.

[SAGirl]

Hmm...A long PG that can attack, actually play the point, and has the versatility to play the other guard position?...Not sure who they could've drafted last year other than Murray who could've done all those things...Oh wait..

Edit: Can't seem to embed this shit, but just take a look: https://youtu.be/XHtCPGSS5sc?t=19s
Here's help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHtCPGSS5sc&feature=youtu.be&t=19s

RC should be crying.
What stands out is solid all around player, body ready to play, he's a strong guard, not with athleticism that will stand out but enough to get things done bc he's strong he's not pushed off balance... good shooter, good court vision. Basically ready to play.

[sasaint]

of course.
then when he plays, he doesn't have rhythm nor chemistry and guys would be complaining team got a 24 year old senior citizen from college.. and he can't play, nor is he going to get better bc he's old (that one is me with the ageism :lol) :P then you have TD 21 saying they still have questions in the perimeter and Manu saying he's going to come back for another year to save the day. Would that have summarized Brogdon to the Spurs his rook season?:toast

I am just glad that my guy is getting a real chance to play and develop. I wish I could see PATFO doing some of those things better with young guys.

It just looks to me like this team is in a real pickle right now, and PATFO are relying on their same old tricks - signing ageing vets (injured in the most recent case) instead of doing something bolder - not just to be bold but because that is what it will take to move the team forward. If you are going to have a sub-par season, do a little rebuilding with a younger guy or two - not a (likely) one year rental of Rudy Gay. The Spurs are like a perpetually "old team." But the old guys we are adding now are not guys who project to be nearly as effective as the old guys we are used to (Tim, Manu and Tony). Drafting PG prospects two consecutive years at this juncture is not a good sign.

[tholdren]

Hmm...A long PG that can attack, actually play the point, and has the versatility to play the other guard position?...Not sure who they could've drafted last year other than Murray who could've done all those things...Oh wait..

Edit: Can't seem to embed this shit, but just take a look: https://youtu.be/XHtCPGSS5sc?t=19s

I get it, but again maybe they saw more assertive player on both ends and fell in love with potential over a more ready now player. We may not even have this discussion if tp didnt get injured. But scouts had to witness his playground style and lack of bbiq. So wonder the knock on your guy

[SAGirl]

I think with Murray it all comes down to maturity. That's all it is imo. He has so much talent, he just needs to know his spots better.

Just finished watching the second half and I think there is a lot of overreaction going on here.

Four pick and rolls about near the end with Perrantes. When Bertans was the defender the team defense won out but Wayne was the defender Perrantes scored both times. I think yall are ragging on DJ too much. It really is Wayne tbh. Cause Bertans knew exactly what to do. Wayne played the coverage really bad. Still though there are not a lot of good defenders on summer Spurs.

Also I don't mind the shots DJ shot at the end. He just missed them. We know he needs work finishing. He tried to make something happen and missed. Oh well.

I'm not gonna defend his high dribble or loose handles but Simmons was the same way and if he could tighten them up enough to be serviceable then I have no doubt DJ can.
I watched Simmons a lot and he was not the same.

Simmons wasn't that careless or had a horrible high dribble... he just didn't really have good handles at all. He wasn't a PG in college either, or in the dleague... he was always the second guard. His handles just weren't good enough. He improved a lot over time. Dijon looks like he wants to get fancy at times. IMO he probably is more skilled with the ball... but less careful. Just an observation. Ability to finish at the rim there is no comparison. Simmons would have been dunking on dudes.

[tholdren]

I watched Simmons a lot and he was not the same.

Simmons wasn't that careless or had a horrible high dribble... he just didn't really have good handles at all. He wasn't a PG in college either, or in the dleague... he was always the second guard. His handles just weren't good enough. He improved a lot over time. Dijon looks like he wants to get fancy at times. IMO he probably is more skilled with the ball... but less careful. Just an observation. Ability to finish at the rim there is no comparison. Simmons would have been dunking on dudes.

Yep he wants to be on a highlight than play basketball. Playground trash.

[sasaint]

But.... and i hate murray type players.... when spurs need a bucket murray is still the better option at this point if it comes down to him and white.

If you need a bucket you better go to Forbes (despite his game-winner miss) over Murray or White. Murray's shooting is atrocious, and he is a TO machine. White wouldn't turn the ball over, but his shooting percentage is only so-so - albeit much better than Dijon's.

[raybies]

I watched Simmons a lot and he was not the same.

Simmons wasn't that careless or had a horrible high dribble... he just didn't really have good handles at all. He wasn't a PG in college either, or in the dleague... he was always the second guard. His handles just weren't good enough. He improved a lot over time. Dijon looks like he wants to get fancy at times. IMO he probably is more skilled with the ball... but less careful. Just an observation. Ability to finish at the rim there is no comparison. Simmons would have been dunking on dudes.

Hence why I say ultimately it comes down to maturity. As for the handles, sometimes he bobbles the ball like Simmons just out of nowhere and that's when I say he needs to tighten it up. The high dribble, fanciness, and carelessness is apart of the maturity. He'll be fine. Imagine Pop yelling at him and getting the bench or even more, hearing from Leonard. He's still a pup. One year and he's still what 20/21? He didn't play really all year and got thrown into the rotation after Tony went out. He did fine with less responsibility which is why I think he'll be fine with the starters on a short leash. He'll be the last option or near that and can just take what's given. He'll be fine.

[Snaq O'Meal]

I get it, but again maybe they saw more assertive player on both ends and fell in love with potential over a more ready now player. We may not even have this discussion if tp didnt get injured. But scouts had to witness his playground style and lack of bbiq. So wonder the knock on your guy

For scouts to claim that Brogdon has limited potential is dead wrong. Thanks to his relentless work ethic and high BBIQ that can't be taught, he has shown leaps in year-on-year improvements with no signs of slowing down. I'll take that any day over flashy playground dribbles.

[tholdren]

If you need a bucket you better go to Forbes (despite his game-winner miss) over Murray or White. Murray's shooting is atrocious, and he is a TO machine. White wouldn't turn the ball over, but his shooting percentage is only so-so - albeit much better than Dijon's.

I think murrays play would be get to the rim. Whether he turns it over from there is another story. But id ride with someone attacking the rim than a jumper. Remember spurs have gasol who is a monster on tbe offensive glass and great with putbacks.....

[TimDunkem]

And, again, it doesn't matter if TP went down or not. Brogdon would've played whether it was at PG or SG. Also, on a team with old guys like TP and Manu, he would've gotten his chance soon enough. Brogdon was ready to come in at ANY time, and the Spurs wouldn't have to had waste a pick on White.

[SAGirl]

Hence why I say ultimately it comes down to maturity. As for the handles, sometimes he bobbles the ball like Simmons just out of nowhere and that's when I say he needs to tighten it up. The high dribble, fanciness, and carelessness is apart of the maturity. He'll be fine. Imagine Pop yelling at him and getting the bench or even more, hearing from Leonard. He's still a pup. One year and he's still what 20/21? He didn't play really all year and got thrown into the rotation after Tony went out. He did fine with less responsibility which is why I think he'll be fine with the starters on a short leash. He'll be the last option or near that and can just take what's given. He'll be fine.
I agree with you on this. Maturity. If he stays with the simple plays he will be fine we have seen it. He does need to work on his offensive game. I haven't seen any improvement in that area.

[sasaint]

I think murrays play would be get to the rim. Whether he turns it over from there is another story. But id ride with someone attacking the rim than a jumper. Remember spurs have gasol who is a monster on tbe offensive glass and great with putbacks.....

Murray's play may be to get to the rim, but whether it is that or a ten foot floater or a jumper, he is unlikely to put the ball in the hole.

[tholdren]

And, again, it doesn't matter if TP went down or not. Brogdon would've played whether it was at PG or SG. Also, on a team with old guys like TP and Manu, he would've gotten his chance soon enough. Brogdon was ready to come in at ANY time, and the Spurs wouldn't have to had waste a pick on White.

When did rookies get to sa and play big minutes or playoff minutes? The point is had tp not gone down, murray wouldnt have played, there would be no basis for his poor play versus brogdon. Brogdon played 2k minutes to murrays 300... not excusing murrays trash and1 play, but you cant compare the two as one has played almost 7x more

[Ditty]

Omg it's summer league. Stop critiquing everything :lol

He will be fine, and has shown the ability to play well against good teams.

[sasaint]

And, again, it doesn't matter if TP went down or not. Brogdon would've played whether it was at PG or SG. Also, on a team with old guys like TP and Manu, he would've gotten his chance soon enough. Brogdon was ready to come in at ANY time, and the Spurs wouldn't have to had waste a pick on White.

I just don't have any confidence in PATFO anymore - whether it is in talent evaluation or player development or recognition of when a player is "ready." The fact that they DID pass on Brogdon and went for a "home run" on the younger, rawer guy and had to draft yet another tweener PG prospect the very next draft only reinforces my lack of trust in the regime. LMA just may turn out to be the personnel move that brought down the Spurs.

[SAGirl]

Omg it's summer league. Stop critiquing everything :lol

He will be fine, and has shown the ability to play well against good teams.
I mean ... what is this forum for.
the worst kind of poster is the one who wants others to shut up.

Trust me. Many posters here hate Anderson, you don't see me telling ppl to shut up.

[TimDunkem]

When did rookies get to sa and play big minutes or playoff minutes? The point is had tp not gone down, murray wouldnt have played, there would be no basis for his poor play versus brogdon. Brogdon played 2k minutes to murrays 300... not excusing murrays trash and1 play, but you cant compare the two as one has played almost 7x more
My point is that Brogdon was ready at any time no matter what happened. We wouldn't be rolling the dice and wasting time developing Murray who is still very raw and there would've been no reason to go after White.

[TimDunkem]

I mean ... what is this forum for.
the worst kind of poster is the one who wants others to shut up.

Trust me. Many posters here hate Anderson, you don't see me telling ppl to shut up.
Yep. I mean, are we just supposed to suck off every Spurs player and the FO? Discussion - including critique - is what this place is for. It's like going to a restaurant and telling people not to eat. :lol

[tholdren]

My point is that Brogdon was ready at any time no matter what happened. We wouldn't be rolling the dice and wasting time developing Murray who is still very raw and there would've been no reason to go after White.

I get it. Im still thinking they want murray to be manu. Brogdon couldnt do that, i feel was sentiment. Review when murray is playing 20mpg and see ... time will tell

[BD24]

I'm excited to bump some of these threads when Murray makes all of these idiots eat crow. Are we really forgetting the solid outings he had against NBA level competition last year? Jesus ST.

Quit taking so much stock in Summer League play. As cubby would say. Act like somebody.

[TimDunkem]

I'm not giving up on Murray but it's just unfortunate that they missed the boat on him.

Ironically, Brogdon is closer to Manu when compared to Murray and White. Has size, plays three positions, can hit the three, run the point, poised, good defender, reasonably athletic, and clutch to boot. :lol

[Mnky]

Here's help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHtCPGSS5sc&feature=youtu.be&t=19s

RC should be crying.
What stands out is solid all around player, body ready to play, he's a strong guard, not with athleticism that will stand out but enough to get things done bc he's strong he's not pushed off balance... good shooter, good court vision. Basically ready to play.

Every team passed on him. Spurs were high on him. He is not a lottery pick, but a good player. Murray had potential to be a lottery pick. You have to Roll the dice if you pick 30th every year.

The spurs were also expecting parker to finish his contract . That would give Murray two years of development before seeing any real minutes.

Murray was a great pick and is still a baby. As much as you hype Anderson, based on potential, you should know better.

[Mnky]

I'm excited to bump some of these threads when Murray makes all of these idiots eat crow. Are we really forgetting the solid outings he had against NBA level competition last year? Jesus ST.

Quit taking so much stock in Summer League play. As cubby would say. Act like somebody.

Yea i dont get it. He was one of the only players to show up against gsw, and played great against elite teams all year.

[SAGirl]

I get it. Im still thinking they want murray to be manu. Brogdon couldnt do that, i feel was sentiment. Review when murray is playing 20mpg and see ... time will tell

there are things for sure only Murray can do. He has a freaky quick first step. He can get by guys so quickly. Just on that, his size and his length, he's worth the gamble. Heck I wanted him A LOT last summer bc of that (and his youth, thus the possibility that the flaws we see are fixed over time)... but I knew he wasn't ready to play.

he needs to get stronger, he can't finish through contact and he needs to continue working on his offensive game.

[Mnky]

I just don't have any confidence in PATFO anymore - whether it is in talent evaluation or player development or recognition of when a player is "ready." The fact that they DID pass on Brogdon and went for a "home run" on the younger, rawer guy and had to draft yet another tweener PG prospect the very next draft only reinforces my lack of trust in the regime. LMA just may turn out to be the personnel move that brought down the Spurs.

Get you your feelings bro. :lol

They're literally the second best team in the NBA, and the majority of that is their development and evaluation.

[BD24]

Every team passed on him. Spurs were high on him. He is not a lottery pick, but a good player. Murray had potential to be a lottery pick. You have to Roll the dice if you pick 30th every year.

The spurs were also expecting parker to finish his contract . That would give Murray two years of development before seeing any real minutes.

Murray was a great pick and is still a baby. As much as you hype Anderson, based on potential, you should know better.
Murray is still going to end up being a better player than Brogdon. Brogdon is already fairly close to a finished product, Murray on the other hand has so much more room for growth. The kid can be special if he puts in the effort and fixes some flaws.

[Mnky]

Murray is still going to end up being a better player than Brogdon. Brogdon is already fairly close to a finished product, Murray on the other hand has so much more room for growth. The kid can be special if he puts in the effort and fixes some flaws.

Brogdon also played against mostly backups . Murray played against starters, and still held his own at about 3-5 yrs younger?

I think Brogdon is awesome, and wanted him for sure, but with Murray coming down to the spurs it was a no brainer. Kid has too much talent.

[ceperez]

I just don't have any confidence in PATFO anymore - whether it is in talent evaluation or player development or recognition of when a player is "ready." The fact that they DID pass on Brogdon and went for a "home run" on the younger, rawer guy and had to draft yet another tweener PG prospect the very next draft only reinforces my lack of trust in the regime. LMA just may turn out to be the personnel move that brought down the Spurs.

Wait... did PATFO not get Forbes last year also? He's doing everything right and developing right before our eyes. Aren't we overlooking him and focusing too much on a complete loser in Murray?

Ask yourself why did PATFO draft White?

[ceperez]

Murray is still going to end up being a better player than Brogdon. Brogdon is already fairly close to a finished product, Murray on the other hand has so much more room for growth. The kid can be special if he puts in the effort and fixes some flaws.

If Murray is supposedly as good as you claim, then why the hell did PATFO draft White?

[raybies]

If Murray is supposedly as good as you claim, then why the hell did PATFO draft White?
White is a combo guard, dude. He's more Manu and Simmons insurance than anything. He can play off ball and on ball.

[ceperez]

White is a combo guard, dude. He's more Manu and Simmons insurance than anything. He can play off ball and on ball.

White is a better point guard than Murray. That is for skills that are important for point guards, dribbling, assisting and shooting. What skills does Murray have other than street ball moves but never being able to finish with contact?

[raybies]

White is a better point guard than Murray. That is for skills that are important for point guards, dribbling, assisting and shooting. What skills does Murray have other than street ball moves but never being able to finish with contact?
You mean White has better vision. It really is subjective. Depends on if you want a shoot first point or a pass first point(which is almost extinct now).

Murray has a quick first step and can get to the bucket at will basically. It's just if he can learn to finish consistently. White otoh needs a pick and roll and doesn't really do anything at an elite level. He's just a complete player.

Take out the flashiness and just looking for substance, Murray has elite tools to work with. He's just so raw, right now. But after his season and his performances against top teams and playoffs he should of earned the benefit of the doubt. He plays better against better competition. He just doesn't respect these guys and his arrogance can be seen in his dribble. He needs the "appropriate level of fear" as Pop likes to say, and that will come with experience. Just like a pup to gnaw at the tail of a bigger dog and then to be shut down after the bite. He just needs more reps.

Edit: hate to keep saying it over and over but it's maturity and I'd like to add professionalism as something he needs to learn. He's acting like a kid. Time to grow up and put the suit on. Needs to learn to be a business man

[TheGreatYacht]

Murray, Bertans, and White have all shitted the bed in Vegas and Utah. They better turn it around quick if they wanna see PT or they'll end up in Austin all year...

[SnakeBoy]

I got to watch the second half but we just need to chill on the Dijon front. He hasn't had that much time to improve since the end of the season. He hasn't went to work out yet with Kawhi etc. Summer league is only a few weeks after the season so anyone expecting major upgrades might be disappointed. We seen him playing off the starters and he did much better. They are just developing his decision making skills, which at this point need a lot of work. But he should be fine with lesser responsibility, with better players so he can play off them. He showed he could do that in the Playoffs. He's still really young. He'll most likely be in Summer League next year too. I didn't see the second half be in the first he appeared to play under control and made some nice plays. I must admit though he did Westbrook some rebounds though so I wouldn't look too much in those numbers. My biggest gripe is that he needs to value the ball but then again we seen Simmons have turnover-fests last year or the year before too when they were developing him as a playmaker. This is the time he needs to make these mistakes...

Good post. He looks the same as he did during the season/playoffs. People are acting like they expected him to turn into Curry over the last 6 weeks.

[Nathan89]

At the moment my hopes are significantly higher for White than Murray. If you play small and have 4 ball handlers on the court which is the ideal in this league then White is a perfectly fine piece at pg. He'll push in transition and make great decisions. In the half court he should be a threat off ball from the 3pt line to the rim. At the same time he is still good enough at dribbling when you have multiple dribblers helping to carry the load. Which is ultimately far more promising than the future I'm seeing for Murray.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Murray is still going to end up being a better player than Brogdon. Brogdon is already fairly close to a finished product, Murray on the other hand has so much more room for growth. The kid can be special if he puts in the effort and fixes some flaws.

You're assuming that Brogdon's development has halted while Murray can make quantum leaps to catch up. But Brogdon is the one who has actually shown yearly improvements, and there are no signs that he will stagnate anytime soon. Meanwhile, Murray's game still looked awfully similar to the previous year.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Good post. He looks the same as he did during the season/playoffs. People are acting like they expected him to turn into Curry over the last 6 weeks.

People weren't expecting a transformation into an MVP caliber player. They're just expecting something along the lines of "don't suck," much less the second coming of Kyle Anderson.

[ceperez]

You mean White has better vision. It really is subjective. Depends on if you want a shoot first point or a pass first point(which is almost extinct now).

Murray has a quick first step and can get to the bucket at will basically. It's just if he can learn to finish consistently. White otoh needs a pick and roll and doesn't really do anything at an elite level. He's just a complete player.

Take out the flashiness and just looking for substance, Murray has elite tools to work with. He's just so raw, right now. But after his season and his performances against top teams and playoffs he should of earned the benefit of the doubt. He plays better against better competition. He just doesn't respect these guys and his arrogance can be seen in his dribble. He needs the "appropriate level of fear" as Pop likes to say, and that will come with experience. Just like a pup to gnaw at the tail of a bigger dog and then to be shut down after the bite. He just needs more reps.

Edit: hate to keep saying it over and over but it's maturity and I'd like to add professionalism as something he needs to learn. He's acting like a kid. Time to grow up and put the suit on. Needs to learn to be a business man

I agree with you that he doesn't respect SL competition. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the talent to easily beat them. He is at their level yet he doesn't know it!

Simmons by contrast had superior athleticism and he just bulldozed over competition. Murray doesn't have that superiority and it shows.

[ceperez]

You're assuming that Brogdon's development has halted while Murray can make quantum leaps to catch up. But Brogdon is the one who has actually shown yearly improvements, and there are no signs that he will stagnate anytime soon. Meanwhile, Murray's game still looked awfully similar to the previous year.

Exactly. At least there is a constant velocity towards improvement. Kawhi is the perfect example. Improving every year.

Look at White's numbers in college, he's improving every year until he got to the pros.

Let's look at Brogon's number in college and in the pros, he's improving every year.

What about Forbes, same thing, improving every year.

What about LJC. No improvement since he was 18 years old.

That is my point, stick to the guys who have learned how to improve their game. Forget guys who are all talent but haven't figured it out yet.

Kawhi may not be the longest player or the most athletic player in the NBA, but his special talent is that he knows how to become better year after year after year.

[Mr. Body]

Let's not overrate Brogdon. He's a very nice player, but he won ROY because the rest of the players sucked. Murray may eventually be the better pick and still has a real chance to become that player.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCXErl9Reho

[Ice009]

Now I know what Parker was talking about last season when he said he has a good feeling about Dejounte. He meant he has a good feeling about him because sucks ass and that means Parker himself will get to stay longer. That's why Tony said he had a good feeling about him ;).

[raybies]

I agree with you that he doesn't respect SL competition. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the talent to easily beat them. He is at their level yet he doesn't know it!

Simmons by contrast had superior athleticism and he just bulldozed over competition. Murray doesn't have that superiority and it shows.
Simmons was like 24-25 in his two summer leagues. He had a lot more experience and maturity, and he can in with the right attitude. He was trying to make it in this league. Murray will get there with time. He's still so young. He'll put it together. A character guy like Mills is what the doctor ordered. Still don't like the contract but he's the type of guy Murray and the young guys need. Hopefully Kawhi doesn't blow smoke up Murray's you know what and let's him know exactly what he needs to know.

[SAGirl]

People weren't expecting a transformation into an MVP caliber player. They're just expecting something along the lines of "don't suck," much less the second coming of Kyle Anderson.
Terrible analogy. He isn't the second coming of Kyle.
Kyle is slow/methodical but very skilled. Murray is athletically gifted but unskilled. All he is right now is his physical tools and genetic gifts. Kyle dominated in summer league. Murray has not.

[SAGirl]

You're assuming that Brogdon's development has halted while Murray can make quantum leaps to catch up. But Brogdon is the one who has actually shown yearly improvements, and there are no signs that he will stagnate anytime soon. Meanwhile, Murray's game still looked awfully similar to the previous year.
This is a good point. The ability to learn is unpredictable in draftees and not everyone has it. That's why they're aren't many Kawhi's

[DaBears]

Brogdon also played against mostly backups . Murray played against starters, and still held his own at about 3-5 yrs younger?

I think Brogdon is awesome, and wanted him for sure, but with Murray coming down to the spurs it was a no brainer. Kid has too much talent.

I am hoping I am wrong, and I want to be.. But I just don't see Dejounte Murray Making it in this league as a starting PG, he is way to turnover prone due to the way he dribbles. Coaching staff I am sure will work with him on getting lower to the ground when dribbling as his high dribble will not cut it.. Then next would be his Defense & jumpshot... If those can get marginally better from current lvl then he would be decent backup option. Brogdon Is much better player at this point and I don't see Murray exceeding his skill lvl in the next 2-3 seasons. So I would take Brogdon over Murray..

[Snaq O'Meal]

Terrible analogy. He isn't the second coming of Kyle.
Kyle is slow/methodical but very skilled. Murray is athletically gifted but unskilled. All he is right now is his physical tools and genetic gifts. Kyle dominated in summer league. Murray has not.

FYI, I wasn't even comparing Murray to Anderson. We just want to see some improvement. Any improvement.

[Snaq O'Meal]

I am hoping I am wrong, and I want to be.. But I just don't see Dejounte Murray Making it in this league as a starting PG, he is way to turnover prone due to the way he dribbles. Coaching staff I am sure will work with him on getting lower to the ground when dribbling as his high dribble will not cut it.. Then next would be his Defense & jumpshot... If those can get marginally better from current lvl then he would be decent backup option. Brogdon Is much better player at this point and I don't see Murray exceeding his skill lvl in the next 2-3 seasons. So I would take Brogdon over Murray..

I'm not too sure if that high dribble can be eliminated. It's part of his natural motion, and making it compact may take away his quick first step or change of direction.

[SAGirl]

FYI, I wasn't even comparing Murray to Anderson. We just want to see some improvement. Any improvement.

Yea, I am down with that.
I would have been happy with improvement in his shooting... let's say he's still TO prone but is shooting much better, that is something to look forward to. Right now, he still looks like the same guy.

I have seen him be less TO than in this game. He still has the entire summer to work on his offensive game. He needs to pack more than the 5 pounds he added, etc. He's still very young and has time to get better.

[duncan2k5]

I'm not really sold on Forbes...he can't penetrate, and he is gun shy in the regular season...we dont need a worse patty mills...we need someone that can break down the defense, punish switches, etc...that is Murray...with that said, he does need to improve his defense most of all...everything else will come

[SnakeBoy]

FYI, I wasn't even comparing Murray to Anderson. We just want to see some improvement. Any improvement.

Well what improvement did you expect to see from a 20 yr old kid in the 5 weeks from the last playoff game and the summer league?

[Snaq O'Meal]

Well what improvement did you expect to see from a 20 yr old kid in the 5 weeks from the last playoff game and the summer league?

I'm referring to improvements over the course of one year. Murray looks no different to this time last year: the high dribble is still there, as well as the inability to shoot or finish with higher efficiency.

The only guy who appeared to improve his game is Forbes.

[ceperez]

I'm referring to improvements over the course of one year. Murray looks no different to this time last year: the high dribble is still there, as well as the inability to shoot or finish with higher efficiency.

The only guy who appeared to improve his game is Forbes.

Exactly! Murray is no different from when he came in a year ago, flashy, turnover prone and can't shoot.

Still can't shoot.

Can't shoot a mid range shot.

Definitely can't shoot a 3 point shot.

[cjw]

To think people didn't want to part with Murray as part of any George trade. Not that it may have ever been on the table.

Spurfans slowly becoming like Knicks fans in how they traded Landry Fields.

[Chinook]

To think people didn't want to part with Murray as part of any George trade. Not that it may have ever been on the table.

Spurfans slowly becoming like Knicks fans in how they traded Landry Fields.

Cavs with JJ Hickson is more appropriate.

[Ice009]

I was one of the only ones he willing to trade him before Summer League. The fact that I'm a shooter and I see that Murray is a piss poor shooter (I didn't need to see any Summer League), I had no problem including him in any package that would bring us back a good/great player.

I learned the lesson years ago that you don't hold onto players that may have potential when you can get a player that may already be better than the young player with potential might ever be (Paul George is an example), especially if you're trying to win now. You just don't pass up those types of players to hold onto someone like Murray. That's idiotic.

[SuperCam]

Murray is still going to end up being a better player than Brogdon. Brogdon is already fairly close to a finished product, Murray on the other hand has so much more room for growth. The kid can be special if he puts in the effort and fixes some flaws.

replying so I can bump this shit post in a few seasons tbh

[Pavlov]

replying so I can bump this shit post in a few seasons tbhLong term troll planning.

[Mnky]

I am hoping I am wrong, and I want to be.. But I just don't see Dejounte Murray Making it in this league as a starting PG, he is way to turnover prone due to the way he dribbles. Coaching staff I am sure will work with him on getting lower to the ground when dribbling as his high dribble will not cut it.. Then next would be his Defense & jumpshot... If those can get marginally better from current lvl then he would be decent backup option. Brogdon Is much better player at this point and I don't see Murray exceeding his skill lvl in the next 2-3 seasons. So I would take Brogdon over Murray..

I think there's a good chance Murray is every bit as good as Brogdon in 3-4 years. There's no telling which way he would go, but the reason the spurs got him was because he came out of college early. Of course, he had the No.1 pick who was going to take over at Washington, in Fultz, so it might have been a pretty good decision.

However that just means he's a couple years behind in development. Like I mentioned, he consistently performed at a high level against real competition.

Bryn Forbes has been onr of the best players of summer league, but that doesn't really mean he's the next Steph curry by any means. It's just summer league where the system looks pretty broke On both sides of the court.

It'll be fun to see how they both turn out though.

[Mnky]

I was one of the only ones he willing to trade him before Summer League. The fact that I'm a shooter and I see that Murray is a piss poor shooter (I didn't need to see any Summer League), I had no problem including him in any package that would bring us back a good/great player.

I learned the lesson years ago that you don't hold onto players that may have potential when you can get a player that may already be better than the young player with potential might ever be (Paul George is an example), especially if you're trying to win now. You just don't pass up those types of players to hold onto someone like Murray. That's idiotic.

GSW have that luxury, spurs dont. Warriors have their core set. They can just draft players, and be good with a supporting cast. Other teams have to look to possible core to build around. When evaluating what if's, there is a much wider range of issues to consider then watching a player shoot.

If that's the case you would have traded Kawhi tbh.

[ceperez]

I think there's a good chance Murray is every bit as good as Brogdon in 3-4 years. There's no telling which way he would go, but the reason the spurs got him was because he came out of college early. Of course, he had the No.1 pick who was going to take over at Washington, in Fultz, so it might have been a pretty good decision.

However that just means he's a couple years behind in development. Like I mentioned, he consistently performed at a high level against real competition.

Bryn Forbes has been onr of the best players of summer league, but that doesn't really mean he's the next Steph curry by any means. It's just summer league where the system looks pretty broke On both sides of the court.

It'll be fun to see how they both turn out though.


The entire philosophy of the Spurs is to get players with a specific kind of mind set. That is player's who play team ball, are always ready, professional, constantly improving and last of all competitive.

Why the hell did the Spurs pay premium for Patty Mills?

Now let's talk about Murray, he just talks the talk but you can see he's a very selfish player that thinks he's better than everyone else. He's not like White or Forbes that played in division 2, had to work their but off to get to division 1. They have a built in fear to have to prove themselves.

Contrast that to Murray who is coming from entitlement. He already believes that he has superior talent even though he can't shoot! He just can't shoot. He's kind of like a James 'Flight' White without the jumping ability. He's long but doesn't have much of a lift. Finally, he's got poor fundamentals. What the hell is with that dribble? How many times was he stripped in the last game against Summer League talent? He is all smoke and mirrors. There are a ton of other players that are more fundamentally sound.

If Murray was any good, why hasn't he shown that in 4 games in Summer League? They got crap talent over there yet he keeps bricking shots.

[Drom John]

I saw the last 3 quarters of the Jazz / Trail Blazers game, the Spurs / Heat, and the first quarter of the Cavaliers / Rockets.
I was in the second row opposite the Heat bench.

The eye test, with all the caveats of one day samples, and that it was Summer League
All the Spurs guards were better than all the Heat guards, and probably better than any on the other four teams. Forbes > White > Murray > Hanlan
Forbes had the best handles, better than Donovan Mitchell (Jazz), and unlike Mitchell, Forbes seem to have a purpose with his dribbles. OTOH, off the ball Forbes didn't move much off a 3-pt spot.
White was solid, confident and commanding and the rest of the team seemed to move better when Derrick had the ball. IOW, White controlled the pace best.
As stated above, Murray was good/bad, clearly talented, but the least game savvy. When Dejounte dribbled knee-high he was better than Mitchell, but then Murray would have those plays when he dribbled waist high, signaling a drive, and the Heat D ate him up.
Hanlan was solid, again better than any non-Spur guard, but seemed mechanical and passionless (and not in a Kawhi sort of way.)

Bigs:
Adebayo was eye-poppingly good, by far the best player in the three games.
Aguste was the solid second.
Those two were the most fluid, basketball players in big men bodies.
Then surprisingly, Whittington, was a clear third best, a mop up man, who had good initial position on Adebayo, but Bam's quickness was too much.
Bertans was out muscled, but made the Heat work.
Jefferson is a force and knows it. Cory could make a bad second string team better just by attitude and hustle.
When Jean-Charles was on my side (most of the time), I focused on his footwork instead of whoever and the ball. Livio moved laterally good-enough, seemed to contain his man, and seemed to slide to relatively open and appropriate offensive spots.
Blossomgame seemed lost.
Lalanne was merely there.
Ledbetter, ignored by Heat and Spurs on offense, actually called defenses twice.
Zhou Qi and Zach Collins look very similar and very raw. Zhou reaches too much and gets easy to call ticky-tack fouls. Tony Bradley was lost.

Spurs/Heat was the best game, all the players seemed involve and played good team ball. The Spurs were by far the most vocal of the six teams especially on defense, and they seemed to share the duties. The Spurs also switched much more than the other five teams, especially the Austin bigs (Bertans, Jean-Charles, Jefferson, Lalanne).

The temperature was a factor.
These games were in the small gym.
During the Jazz / Trailblazers game the stands were maybe 60% full, and the players were sweating heavily and there were several slips.
Then the Celtics / Lakers game sucked the fans out to the big stadium, leaving the small gym about 20% full. The gym cooled significantly. The fans on my side were about 30% Spurs, 25% pissed off Laker fans who didn't get seats next door, a handful of Heat fans, many neutrals, and a lot of professionals with badges, (NBA, scouts, foreign teams).
For the Cavaliers / Rockets, the gym fill back up to 50% and was noticeably warmer.


In the middle of the first quarter of the Spurs game an agent came in and sat directly behind me and talked to another man across the aisle, and handled several phone calls.
The first comment from the agent to the parent was "I see Cady is playing. How's he doing." Answered "He just got in."
Then back and forth from phone and the man across the aisle. "I am getting offers from Greece."
And "A team in Lebanon is offering $100,000 for a center for just a one month contract, but nobody's taking it because they are all waiting for the CBA [China] with Zhou gone." The other man, "Just greedy. They should get the experience."

[ceperez]

In the middle of the first quarter of the Spurs game an agent came in and sat directly behind me and talked to another man across the aisle, and handled several phone calls.
The first comment from the agent to the parent was "I see Cady is playing. How's he doing." Answered "He just got in."
Then back and forth from phone and the man across the aisle. "I am getting offers from Greece."
And "A team in Lebanon is offering $100,000 for a center for just a one month contract, but nobody's taking it because they are all waiting for the CBA [China] with Zhou gone." The other man, "Just greedy. They should get the experience."


Nice... looks like Las Vega Summer League is the place to be if you are a basketball agent.

[Play Boban]

:wow MVBertans :wow

[sasaint]

I saw the last 3 quarters of the Jazz / Trail Blazers game, the Spurs / Heat, and the first quarter of the Cavaliers / Rockets.
I was in the second row opposite the Heat bench.

The eye test, with all the caveats of one day samples, and that it was Summer League
All the Spurs guards were better than all the Heat guards, and probably better than any on the other four teams. Forbes > White > Murray > Hanlan
Forbes had the best handles, better than Donovan Mitchell (Jazz), and unlike Mitchell, Forbes seem to have a purpose with his dribbles. OTOH, off the ball Forbes didn't move much off a 3-pt spot.
White was solid, confident and commanding and the rest of the team seemed to move better when Derrick had the ball. IOW, White controlled the pace best.
As stated above, Murray was good/bad, clearly talented, but the least game savvy. When Dejounte dribbled knee-high he was better than Mitchell, but then Murray would have those plays when he dribbled waist high, signaling a drive, and the Heat D ate him up.
Hanlan was solid, again better than any non-Spur guard, but seemed mechanical and passionless (and not in a Kawhi sort of way.)

Bigs:
Adebayo was eye-poppingly good, by far the best player in the three games.
Aguste was the solid second.
Those two were the most fluid, basketball players in big men bodies.
Then surprisingly, Whittington, was a clear third best, a mop up man, who had good initial position on Adebayo, but Bam's quickness was too much.
Bertans was out muscled, but made the Heat work.
Jefferson is a force and knows it. Cory could make a bad second string team better just by attitude and hustle.
When Jean-Charles was on my side (most of the time), I focused on his footwork instead of whoever and the ball. Livio moved laterally good-enough, seemed to contain his man, and seemed to slide to relatively open and appropriate offensive spots.
Blossomgame seemed lost.
Lalanne was merely there.
Ledbetter, ignored by Heat and Spurs on offense, actually called defenses twice.
Zhou Qi and Zach Collins look very similar and very raw. Zhou reaches too much and gets easy to call ticky-tack fouls. Tony Bradley was lost.

Spurs/Heat was the best game, all the players seemed involve and played good team ball. The Spurs were by far the most vocal of the six teams especially on defense, and they seemed to share the duties. The Spurs also switched much more than the other five teams, especially the Austin bigs (Bertans, Jean-Charles, Jefferson, Lalanne).

The temperature was a factor.
These games were in the small gym.
During the Jazz / Trailblazers game the stands were maybe 60% full, and the players were sweating heavily and there were several slips.
Then the Celtics / Lakers game sucked the fans out to the big stadium, leaving the small gym about 20% full. The gym cooled significantly. The fans on my side were about 30% Spurs, 25% pissed off Laker fans who didn't get seats next door, a handful of Heat fans, many neutrals, and a lot of professionals with badges, (NBA, scouts, foreign teams).
For the Cavaliers / Rockets, the gym fill back up to 50% and was noticeably warmer.


In the middle of the first quarter of the Spurs game an agent came in and sat directly behind me and talked to another man across the aisle, and handled several phone calls.
The first comment from the agent to the parent was "I see Cady is playing. How's he doing." Answered "He just got in."
Then back and forth from phone and the man across the aisle. "I am getting offers from Greece."
And "A team in Lebanon is offering $100,000 for a center for just a one month contract, but nobody's taking it because they are all waiting for the CBA [China] with Zhou gone." The other man, "Just greedy. They should get the experience."

Very cool intel. Thanks! :toast

[Mnky]

The entire philosophy of the Spurs is to get players with a specific kind of mind set. That is player's who play team ball, are always ready, professional, constantly improving and last of all competitive.

Why the hell did the Spurs pay premium for Patty Mills?

Now let's talk about Murray, he just talks the talk but you can see he's a very selfish player that thinks he's better than everyone else. He's not like White or Forbes that played in division 2, had to work their but off to get to division 1. They have a built in fear to have to prove themselves.

Contrast that to Murray who is coming from entitlement. He already believes that he has superior talent even though he can't shoot! He just can't shoot. He's kind of like a James 'Flight' White without the jumping ability. He's long but doesn't have much of a lift. Finally, he's got poor fundamentals. What the hell is with that dribble? How many times was he stripped in the last game against Summer League talent? He is all smoke and mirrors. There are a ton of other players that are more fundamentally sound.

If Murray was any good, why hasn't he shown that in 4 games in Summer League? They got crap talent over there yet he keeps bricking shots.

Why hasn't he shown anything? He did against kyrie Irving, Seth curry, and Beverly. I remember someone saying Beverly picked his pocket, that's like criticising someone for kawhi picking their pocket, that's what they do.

He has shown he can play at the NBA level. He does have elite intangibles. There's no arguing that. What he needs to do is provr his development , and summer league isn't the best place to see that to be honest. As I mentioned, it's summer league and there are not real systems going on. Every player is being stingy and trying to makr a team. It IS NOT team concept. Their careers are on the line.

Murray showed out last year in summer league. He isn't doing well this year. Not to worried about it tbh. He has been a development project since draft night.

Also understand the mindset too, but thats that's a good and bad. You want that mindset, and you saw why in the playoffs anf big games. He isnt affected or scared of tge moment. However, being over zealous can be an issue.

That being said, he's a second year young player whos a development, but has the ability to play now. Maybe not be the best PG in the league is not possible, but that's okay. That's why the spurs wrre able to get him, ane he still has plenty of positives despite the focus on his negatives.

[Mnky]

I saw the last 3 quarters of the Jazz / Trail Blazers game, the Spurs / Heat, and the first quarter of the Cavaliers / Rockets.
I was in the second row opposite the Heat bench.

The eye test, with all the caveats of one day samples, and that it was Summer League
All the Spurs guards were better than all the Heat guards, and probably better than any on the other four teams. Forbes > White > Murray > Hanlan
Forbes had the best handles, better than Donovan Mitchell (Jazz), and unlike Mitchell, Forbes seem to have a purpose with his dribbles. OTOH, off the ball Forbes didn't move much off a 3-pt spot.
White was solid, confident and commanding and the rest of the team seemed to move better when Derrick had the ball. IOW, White controlled the pace best.
As stated above, Murray was good/bad, clearly talented, but the least game savvy. When Dejounte dribbled knee-high he was better than Mitchell, but then Murray would have those plays when he dribbled waist high, signaling a drive, and the Heat D ate him up.
Hanlan was solid, again better than any non-Spur guard, but seemed mechanical and passionless (and not in a Kawhi sort of way.)

Bigs:
Adebayo was eye-poppingly good, by far the best player in the three games.
Aguste was the solid second.
Those two were the most fluid, basketball players in big men bodies.
Then surprisingly, Whittington, was a clear third best, a mop up man, who had good initial position on Adebayo, but Bam's quickness was too much.
Bertans was out muscled, but made the Heat work.
Jefferson is a force and knows it. Cory could make a bad second string team better just by attitude and hustle.
When Jean-Charles was on my side (most of the time), I focused on his footwork instead of whoever and the ball. Livio moved laterally good-enough, seemed to contain his man, and seemed to slide to relatively open and appropriate offensive spots.
Blossomgame seemed lost.
Lalanne was merely there.
Ledbetter, ignored by Heat and Spurs on offense, actually called defenses twice.
Zhou Qi and Zach Collins look very similar and very raw. Zhou reaches too much and gets easy to call ticky-tack fouls. Tony Bradley was lost.

Spurs/Heat was the best game, all the players seemed involve and played good team ball. The Spurs were by far the most vocal of the six teams especially on defense, and they seemed to share the duties. The Spurs also switched much more than the other five teams, especially the Austin bigs (Bertans, Jean-Charles, Jefferson, Lalanne).

The temperature was a factor.
These games were in the small gym.
During the Jazz / Trailblazers game the stands were maybe 60% full, and the players were sweating heavily and there were several slips.
Then the Celtics / Lakers game sucked the fans out to the big stadium, leaving the small gym about 20% full. The gym cooled significantly. The fans on my side were about 30% Spurs, 25% pissed off Laker fans who didn't get seats next door, a handful of Heat fans, many neutrals, and a lot of professionals with badges, (NBA, scouts, foreign teams).
For the Cavaliers / Rockets, the gym fill back up to 50% and was noticeably warmer.


In the middle of the first quarter of the Spurs game an agent came in and sat directly behind me and talked to another man across the aisle, and handled several phone calls.
The first comment from the agent to the parent was "I see Cady is playing. How's he doing." Answered "He just got in."
Then back and forth from phone and the man across the aisle. "I am getting offers from Greece."
And "A team in Lebanon is offering $100,000 for a center for just a one month contract, but nobody's taking it because they are all waiting for the CBA [China] with Zhou gone." The other man, "Just greedy. They should get the experience."

:bobo

[CGD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCXErl9Reho

Perrantes from the Heat was solid in that game. Another underrated Virginia guy.

[CGD]

Murray needs to tighten up that handle. He gets a little too lose and a little too high for comfort

[TheDoctor]

I saw the last 3 quarters of the Jazz / Trail Blazers game, the Spurs / Heat, and the first quarter of the Cavaliers / Rockets.
I was in the second row opposite the Heat bench.

The eye test, with all the caveats of one day samples, and that it was Summer League
All the Spurs guards were better than all the Heat guards, and probably better than any on the other four teams. Forbes > White > Murray > Hanlan
Forbes had the best handles, better than Donovan Mitchell (Jazz), and unlike Mitchell, Forbes seem to have a purpose with his dribbles. OTOH, off the ball Forbes didn't move much off a 3-pt spot.
White was solid, confident and commanding and the rest of the team seemed to move better when Derrick had the ball. IOW, White controlled the pace best.
As stated above, Murray was good/bad, clearly talented, but the least game savvy. When Dejounte dribbled knee-high he was better than Mitchell, but then Murray would have those plays when he dribbled waist high, signaling a drive, and the Heat D ate him up.
Hanlan was solid, again better than any non-Spur guard, but seemed mechanical and passionless (and not in a Kawhi sort of way.)

Bigs:
Adebayo was eye-poppingly good, by far the best player in the three games.
Aguste was the solid second.
Those two were the most fluid, basketball players in big men bodies.
Then surprisingly, Whittington, was a clear third best, a mop up man, who had good initial position on Adebayo, but Bam's quickness was too much.
Bertans was out muscled, but made the Heat work.
Jefferson is a force and knows it. Cory could make a bad second string team better just by attitude and hustle.
When Jean-Charles was on my side (most of the time), I focused on his footwork instead of whoever and the ball. Livio moved laterally good-enough, seemed to contain his man, and seemed to slide to relatively open and appropriate offensive spots.
Blossomgame seemed lost.
Lalanne was merely there.
Ledbetter, ignored by Heat and Spurs on offense, actually called defenses twice.
Zhou Qi and Zach Collins look very similar and very raw. Zhou reaches too much and gets easy to call ticky-tack fouls. Tony Bradley was lost.

Spurs/Heat was the best game, all the players seemed involve and played good team ball. The Spurs were by far the most vocal of the six teams especially on defense, and they seemed to share the duties. The Spurs also switched much more than the other five teams, especially the Austin bigs (Bertans, Jean-Charles, Jefferson, Lalanne).

The temperature was a factor.
These games were in the small gym.
During the Jazz / Trailblazers game the stands were maybe 60% full, and the players were sweating heavily and there were several slips.
Then the Celtics / Lakers game sucked the fans out to the big stadium, leaving the small gym about 20% full. The gym cooled significantly. The fans on my side were about 30% Spurs, 25% pissed off Laker fans who didn't get seats next door, a handful of Heat fans, many neutrals, and a lot of professionals with badges, (NBA, scouts, foreign teams).
For the Cavaliers / Rockets, the gym fill back up to 50% and was noticeably warmer.


In the middle of the first quarter of the Spurs game an agent came in and sat directly behind me and talked to another man across the aisle, and handled several phone calls.
The first comment from the agent to the parent was "I see Cady is playing. How's he doing." Answered "He just got in."
Then back and forth from phone and the man across the aisle. "I am getting offers from Greece."
And "A team in Lebanon is offering $100,000 for a center for just a one month contract, but nobody's taking it because they are all waiting for the CBA [China] with Zhou gone." The other man, "Just greedy. They should get the experience."

This was awesome :tu