Defense: How Concerned At This Point?

[DPG21920]

I am getting more and more concerned about this year's defense the more I see this off season unfold.

Losing Dedmon, who was the 2nd best defensive big on SA and starter for many games feels like a pretty big defensive blow.

Lee, while not known for his defense, played pretty solid and looks like he is gone.

As we currently stand, SA's guard rotation outside of Danny Green & Simmons last year, was really bad defensively. TP is injured and even though he was bad on defense, are any of the replacements considered actually better at this point?

Plus Defenders: Kawhi, Danny, LMA, Kyle Anderson. Maybe Simmons if he indeed returns.

Negative Defenders (based on all evidence we have today): Mills (battles hard), TP (injured anyways), Rudy Gay (never great, although worked himself to acceptable but then blew his Achilles out), Derrick White (total unknown at NBA level but did garner some defensive accolades in college), Bertans (not showing much defensively outside occasionally blocking shots), Forbes (not showing much on defense) & Murray (really not showing much on defense either in team or individual setting despite great physical tools) & Joffery (bad defensive metrics entire 3 years so far).

Spurs were definitely a win with defense team last year & so far the two players they look to have lost (Dedmon & Lee) were not replaced with anywhere near the defenders they were.

The guard rotation which was weak on defense depth wise was not addressed either.

I don't think the players added (Gay, Joffery, Murray (I say added because TP is injured), White, Blossomgame)) did anything to really elevate the offense at this point either.

Do you all see potential on defense from anyone in particular where it's reasonable to assume defense won't be an issue?

I think with Gay & Murray (maybe) & White (and Forbes playing so well) you can see some potential lift on offense if things break well, but what about the defense?

[dabom]

Spurs better defenders this year than last. :lol

Porker is gone. :lol

[coachmac87]

Just list the players that are "gone"...

Judge their true defensive value to team....

You won't be concerned...

[Leetonidas]

Not that concerned yet. Spurs still had a good defense last season and Dedmon is going to be the only good defensive player we lost. Lee was awful on the defensive end imo. But if Gay can put in work and at least be a positive on that end I am not too worried about it. League is trending less and less toward traditional lineups with shotblocking centers. Gobert albeit not fully healthy didn't make much of a difference against GS and he's probably Spurs fans wet dream

[DPG21920]

Just list the players that are "gone"...

Judge their true defensive value to team....

You won't be concerned...

That is exactly what I did or did you not read :lol

Dedmon and to a lesser extent Lee do have me concerned. Then on top of that the already weak guard defense was not addressed and the big they added is not only worse than Dedmon, but actually a negative type defender. Can Gay reasonably be expected to pick up the slack for Lee/Dedmon defense coming off such a harsh injury?

[TheGreatYacht]

Mills is looking like the starting point guard by default due to the shittyness of Murray and White. That should tell you how trash the defense will be next year :lol Add the fact that the always declining Green is 30 now...

[DPG21920]

To give a little context. When Dedmon fell out of the playoff rotation, SA went from being a top 2 defense in the league to 11th out of the 16 playoff teams in defensive ratings. Obviously that can be skewed by the GS series and not having Kawhi, but still.

Pretty massive dip in defense by SA in the playoffs. Is it correlation or causation with regards to Dedmon no longer really getting minutes in the playoffs? Hard to tell.

[SPURt]

What does this word "defense" mean? I thought the NBA was just a three point contest with running?

[MaNu4Tres]

They are bringing back their defensive core. They'll be fine.

Dedmon played a small role last year. Losing him wont impact the overall defense much. Spurs should be better defensively by simply going smaller as well. Their defensive metrics w/ LA + Kawhi lineups w/ LA at the 5 were great.

[spurs10]

I'm wondering if, point guard aside, ia line-up of Green, Kawhi, Gay, and LMA isn't an improvement over the same with Pau replacing Gay. Gay might not play much with Kawhi, but he seems an upgrade over Pau on defense. Now this is playing LMA the 5 which so far seems likely.

[SAGirl]

What does this word "defense" mean? I thought the NBA was just a three point contest with running?
Pretty much ... with some illegal screening thrown in.

[MaNu4Tres]

To give a little context. When Dedmon fell out of the playoff rotation, SA went from being a top 2 defense in the league to 11th out of the 16 playoff teams in defensive ratings. Obviously that can be skewed by the GS series and not having Kawhi, but still.

Pretty massive dip in defense by SA in the playoffs. Is it correlation or causation with regards to Dedmon no longer really getting minutes in the playoffs? Hard to tell.

Spurs had 10 games vs. the two best offenses in the NBA and were without Kawhi for 5 of those 10 games.

Plus, people were concerned about the D taking a dip last year w/ TD retiring too. Fact is, they still have one of the best perimeter defenses in the NBA (w/ Kawhi/Danny). The rise of Simmons only adds to that.

The top 8-10 players is where you need to assess.

Kawhi, Green, Simmons, Gay, LMA, Murray, Mills, Manu, Pau, Bertans/Anderson. (Mills and Pau are only true liabilities vs. great teams that gameplan -- Pau/ Mills are fine vs. bad/ avg teams). Can't be concerned of the defense because of guys 11-15 on the roster.

[TheDoctor]

DPG brings some solid points and legit concerns. I think the offseason plans got screwed up at some point. LMA crying rumors just before the draft? 12:01? Tony's injury forcing the team to select another Guard? Combo of all of those? Dunno. But unless there's some nice trade brewing so far PATFO's moves have been somewhat weird imo.

[spurs10]

They are bringing back their defensive core. They'll be fine.

Dedmon played a small role last year. Losing him wont impact the overall defense much. Spurs should be better defensively by simply going smaller as well. Their defensive metrics w/ LA + Kawhi lineups w/ LA at the 5 were great. Didn't read this yet, but yes I think it's an improvement if we have LMA at the 5 and Gay and Kawhi as the forwards.

[apalisoc_9]

Why?

The spurs have their core defenders. Plus, If Aldridge is playing the 5 more with Gasol off the bench the spurs should be even better overall in an 82 game sample.

I also have reason to believe that Joff would be am upgrade defensively over lee.

The more the spurs play Aldridge at the 5, the better they are defensively.

You might notice an increase in opp. points per game because they might play faster but I suspect they'd be an even more efficient defensive team.

[Down Under]

Our defense was good in the playoffs without Dedmon. Will be fine.

[spurs10]

To give a little context. When Dedmon fell out of the playoff rotation, SA went from being a top 2 defense in the league to 11th out of the 16 playoff teams in defensive ratings. Obviously that can be skewed by the GS series and not having Kawhi, but still.

Pretty massive dip in defense by SA in the playoffs. Is it correlation or causation with regards to Dedmon no longer really getting minutes in the playoffs? Hard to tell. Well Kawhi being injured was huge, of course. However I'm wondering if Dedmon was such a big difference maker in our defense why Pop, 'Mr. Defense First,' didn't play him more. Do you think he didn't, rightly or wrongly, see Dedmon as a big difference maker?

[dabom]

Our defense was good in the playoffs without Dedmon. Will be fine.

[Robz4000]

Too early to tell, but I'm not a fan of where the team is going on that end (and in general).

[spurs10]

Dedmon did a pretty colossal nosedive from the All Star Break to the end of the season and it continued to drop in the PO. His NetRfg% went from 11.4 to -1.3 from AS to the end of RS, then -11.5 in the playoffs.

[tbdog]

If spurs can get reliable offense from lma, Gasol and Gay, then the more defensive destructive Leonard could become.

[duncan2k5]

Wait...did OP say dedmon was our 2nd best defensive big last year? Who was the first???

[Kindergarten Cop]

Wait...did OP say dedmon was our 2nd best defensive big last year? Who was the first???

LA

[duncan2k5]

LA

LMFAO! anyone who actually watched the games knew better...LA was lazy on defense...his idea of stopping penetration is fouling the opposing team with a weak reach, then putting on that dumb smile when the refs call foul

[Chinook]

Texas Red is right: They'll be fine on D because they kept Green.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

LMA is going to have his worst season yet, he's completely checked out and angry.

Spurs need some shot blocking/rebounding bigs in the worst way. I wish Dedmon was given another chance, when Pau went down Spurs looked damn good during that stretch.

We also lack a consistent second option but that's a discussion for another day.

[itzsoweezee]

The length is really intriguing. If Murray is starting, then the arms of the starting lineup are going to be impenetrable.

[MultiTroll]

2016-17 rebounds per minute.

7th. Dewayne Dedmon 17.9

:pop::crybut but but he doesn't act like a pussy when the other team mouths off / cheapshots :cry:pop:

[baseline bum]

Not concerned at all since this team won't be a title contender when their only offseason moves were signing Gay and not getting anything for Aldridge.

[Horse]

LMA is going to have his worst season yet, he's completely checked out and angry.

Spurs need some shot blocking/rebounding bigs in the worst way. I wish Dedmon was given another chance, when Pau went down Spurs looked damn good during that stretch.

We also lack a consistent second option but that's a discussion for another day.
Not If he wants to get paid after next season.

[Hoops Czar]

Not concerned at all since this team won't be a title contender when their only offseason moves were signing Gay and not getting anything for Aldridge.
Don't forget Lauvergne who played 1041 minutes in 2015-16 and his highlight reel was summed up in less than 3 minutes.

[MultiTroll]

Not concerned at all since this team won't be a title contender when their only offseason moves were signing Gay and not getting anything for Aldridge.
Heavy concern too, however I just watched the 1st three quarters of Game 1 vs WarriorPhags before ZaZa happened and damn, even Softridge was playing well with Kwa holding his hand.

[Capt Bringdown]

Not concerned at all since this team won't be a title contender when their only offseason moves were signing Gay and not getting anything for Aldridge.

Game, set and match. This year is about enjoying the regular season and watching the youngsters grow.
This is nothing new, however. Championship ball is about imposing your will and we haven't seen that from the Spurs in years.

[Raven]

i will be shocked if we don't have the top D by a landslide.

[TD 21]

They are bringing back their defensive core. They'll be fine.

Dedmon played a small role last year. Losing him wont impact the overall defense much. Spurs should be better defensively by simply going smaller as well. Their defensive metrics w/ LA + Kawhi lineups w/ LA at the 5 were great.

Dedmon played 1,330 regular season minutes . . . Spurs had best defense in league.

Dedmon played 97 playoff minutes . . . Spurs defense fell to 11th.

Granted, they faced top 2 regular season offenses, but still. Defensive rebounding and overall defense could take significant enough hit that whatever gains might be made offensively by playing more small ball, could be negated.

[dabom]

Dedmon played 1,330 regular season minutes . . . Spurs had best defense in league.

Dedmon played 97 playoff minutes . . . Spurs defense fell to 11th.

Granted, they faced top 2 regular season offenses, but still. Defensive rebounding and overall defense could take significant enough hit that whatever gains might be made offensively by playing more small ball, could be negated.

Are we counting minutes after kawhi went down? That could really be it. :lol

[DPG21920]

I think SA could be fine with the Kawhi/DG/LMA trio, but the bench defense will be atrocious, the PG spot arguably got worse and the starting lineup could dip as well depending on who starts.

Don't think it's "panic" time but something to keep an eye on.

[dabom]

Dedman is a bum. Won't be missing him. Dedman plummeted impacfully on the spurs. He had the starting job but the games got periodically worse. :lol

[tonight...you]

DPG brings some solid points and legit concerns. I think the offseason plans got screwed up at some point. LMA crying rumors just before the draft? 12:01? Tony's injury forcing the team to select another Guard? Combo of all of those? Dunno. But unless there's some nice trade brewing so far PATFO's moves have been somewhat weird imo.
Yeah, and then watch them get to the WCF again. How do they do it? With such shit on this team, year after year?

[tonight...you]

Dedman is a bum. Won't be missing him. Dedman plummeted impacfully on the spurs. He had the starting job but the games got periodically worse. :lol
Effin-A right. Dude played his way off the team completely in the playoffs. But OH NOES! He's not gonna be here to play his way off the team again!

[TheGreatYacht]

Dedman is a bum. Won't be missing him. Dedman plummeted impacfully on the spurs. He had the starting job but the games got periodically worse. :lol
Truth bomb. Spurs had to consistently come back from behind because the starters couldn't score with him on the floor.

I don't give a shit what the numbers say in the playoffs. Spurs played the 2 best offenses in the league, of course the overall defense will look like shit

[TimDunkem]

I liked Deadman simply as a backup to that bum Gasol, but he won't be missed.

[tonight...you]

Truth bomb. Spurs had to consistently come back from behind because the starters couldn't score with him on the floor.

I don't give a shit what the numbers say in the playoffs. Spurs played the 2 best offenses in the league, of course the overall defense will look like shit
I'd get in an internet-foxhole with you any day. This guy fires bullets, not blanks.

[dabom]

Truth bomb. Spurs had to consistently come back from behind because the starters couldn't score with him on the floor.

I don't give a shit what the numbers say in the playoffs. Spurs played the 2 best offenses in the league, of course the overall defense will look like shit

The overall defense went down with Kawhi. It's not that the Spurs had a bad defense to start. :lol

[Mikeanaro]

Defense should only count against playoff teams, anything else is fools gold.
Last season they had stellar defense against non contenders but it was lame vs the better teams, then the playoffs came and it was the same with MEM and HOU, I wont count GSW since Kawhichael went down so there was no team after.

[HarlemHeat37]

If Simmons returns, I won't be concerned about the defense, even without a rim protector..they'll still have the best group of wing defenders in the NBA, along with an elite system..

The team overall is a concern, though..most concerned I've been about the Spurs since the 2011 embarrassment..the projected starting lineup is going to feature 3 black holes(Murray, Gay and Aldridge), which is terrifying..Kawhi is a willing passer, but his specialty is 1 on 1(where he's probably the best in the league)..Murray isn't as much of a concern, since Patty will be receiving more minutes, but implementing a career cancer coming off an Achilles is going to be a daunting task..

Then they will have to implement Parker coming off a major injury:lol

Having Kawhi and Pop is a guarantee that they'll do well during the RS, though..the bench will still be one of the best in the NBA, as well..

[tholdren]

Not that concerned yet. Spurs still had a good defense last season and Dedmon is going to be the only good defensive player we lost. Lee was awful on the defensive end imo. But if Gay can put in work and at least be a positive on that end I am not too worried about it. League is trending less and less toward traditional lineups with shotblocking centers. Gobert albeit not fully healthy didn't make much of a difference against GS and he's probably Spurs fans wet dream

Absolutely wrong about lee. Dude rebounded in traffic, was always playing sound ball you man help defense, and had the most active hands of almost all the players. Its bothersome how much this site talks about defense and knows absolutely nothing about switch or help responsibilities.

[YGWHI]

The guard rotation which was weak on defense depth wise was not addressed either.

I don't think the players added (Gay, Joffery, Murray (I say added because TP is injured), White, Blossomgame)) did anything to really elevate the offense at this point either.

Do you all see potential on defense from anyone in particular...
No. I don't.


I think with Gay & Murray (maybe) & White (and Forbes playing so well) you can see some potential lift on offense if things break well, but what about the defense?
I wonder what's the big deal. After all it's not like the Spurs have to compete in a Conference replete with elite guards...

And for those who think that losing Dedmon doesn't matter I wonder who will replace Pau when younger and faster guards kill him in P&Rs situations.

884963461117038592

Yep. 5.5 better but Pop doesn't like him. :shootme

[ginobilized]

Didn't Dedman walk off the court during a playoff game because he was mad at Pop?
That doesn't fly in SA. Bummer, but, he wasn't putting us over the top.

But, yes, the defense concerns me. Rebounding, playmaking and the basic identity of the team also concern me.
Who will be this year's "centerpiece?"

[Leetonidas]

Absolutely wrong about lee. Dude rebounded in traffic, was always playing sound ball you man help defense, and had the most active hands of almost all the players. Its bothersome how much this site talks about defense and knows absolutely nothing about switch or help responsibilities.

Are you serious? He was constantly slow to rotate and constantly fouled players trying to recover

[SAGirl]

If Simmons returns, I won't be concerned about the defense, even without a rim protector..they'll still have the best group of wing defenders in the NBA, along with an elite system..

The team overall is a concern, though..most concerned I've been about the Spurs since the 2011 embarrassment..the projected starting lineup is going to feature 3 black holes(Murray, Gay and Aldridge), which is terrifying..Kawhi is a willing passer, but his specialty is 1 on 1(where he's probably the best in the league)..Murray isn't as much of a concern, since Patty will be receiving more minutes, but implementing a career cancer coming off an Achilles is going to be a daunting task..

Then they will have to implement Parker coming off a major injury:lol

Having Kawhi and Pop is a guarantee that they'll do well during the RS, though..the bench will still be one of the best in the NBA, as well..
Let me ask you this bc I really don't have strong opinions of Gay. Are you as strongly concerned about Gay as you were about Lamarcus in 2015?

[Spurtacular]

Dedmon wasn't a playoff rotation guy. So, I guess I'm not too concerned when looking at it at that level. I guess if you're thinking we need whatever to get the 2 seed over Houston.... But I'm hoping we get a 4 seed and kick Golden State's ass in the second round, anyways.

[KDKSpurs24]

Dedmon wasn't a playoff rotation guy. So, I guess I'm not too concerned when looking at it at that level. I guess if you're thinking we need whatever to get the 2 seed over Houston.... But I'm hoping we get a 4 seed and kick Golden State's ass in the second round, anyways.
He WAS a playoff rotation guy until like game 3 or 4 in MEM series when he missed it because he was out sick. And then all of a sudden Pop used that as a chance to bench him.

[spurraider21]

Dedmon is black. So, I guess I'm not too concerned when looking at it at that level.

[Spurtacular]

^^^

:lol

#SaveChumpDumper

[Spurtacular]

^^^

Search your heart. Do you believe that Dedmon is really not replaceable? I honestly have nothing against the guy; I just don't consider him anywhere near essential.