Shams: Jonathon Simmons Agrees to 3-yr Deal w/Orlando Magic

[99 Problems]

Good luck high flyer. You'd av been good with Penny and Shaq.

[Snaq O'Meal]

I love Duncan but Pop took the team pretty far last year with out timmy.

Poop didn't but one other guy did.

As soon as that guy got taken out by a dirty play, Poop's system got spanked like a stepchild.

[E20]

Who fucking cares

[E20]

Spurs aren't contending for a title in a while Jonathan Simmons wasn't the answer to our problems. Only way Spurs contend is if they get someone like Lebron in 2018 but someone like Lebron would never come to the Spurs.

[tonight...you]

Who fucking cares

[rastaspur]

his dumbass agent overplayed his hand. Genius.

His client roster shall remain at one for the forseeable future. He may never reach clientele status.

[Spurtacular]

885946954718388224

I guess Leonard will guard them Dub shooters all by himself? Spurs have no other athletes to throw at them. That's a shame. :(

Everything JS had in athleticism, he gave a way in stupidity. He was a trainwreck on half court defense.

[TheDoctor]

It was a GREAT pick up.

For the price it was a nice risky move.

[E20]

Who fucking cares

[Play Boban]

Lol Pop's a great coach, but he has 5 rings because of Tim Duncan... Get real :lol
:cry

[SAGirl]

885948020910510080

[ace3g]

886068313486491650

[dabom]

Playing time. Stay losing guys. :lol

[bklynspursfan]

The 27-year-old Houston native walked into free agency with the intentions of securing a deal of at least $50 million.

:wakeup

[dabom]

He wasn't good in the RS and he did have a good 3 playoff games but not 50 mil guarantee though. :lol

Patty is actually worth more than that if someone wants to bitch. :lol

[south side spur]

White is better at every skill in the game except dunking and how does it feel Simmons fanboys that your player was less effective than Kyle Fucking Anderson your whipping boy. Pathetic

[dabom]

White is better at every skill in the game except dunking and how does it feel Simmons fanboys that your player was less effective than Kyle Fucking Anderson your whipping boy. Pathetic

Simmons was actually better in the RS and Playoffs. Wtf? :lol

10th most minutes behind porker ain't something to cry about. :lol

[ducks]

885948020910510080

Wow wonder what it would be with spurs

[BatManu20]

"I want to be in position to play a decent amount of minutes per game," said Simmons. "I feel like I can excel playing enough minutes per game. I explained that to Pop (Gregg Popovich (http://m.mysanantonio.com/search/?action=search&channel=sports%2Fspurs&inlineLink=1&searchindex=solr&query=%22Gregg+Popovich%22)) and he understand that. ... I want to be able to continue to improve and still make a name for myself and I wasn't going to do that (with the Spurs). Not like I wanted to."

Asked why he felt the Magic was a good choice, Simmons said the opportunity to become a better impact player was too good to pass up.
"I have goals and I'm trying to attack them," said Simmons. "I think Orlando is the perfect place to do that."


There you have it.

[ducks]

Dude thought he should get 50 and averaged less then 7 a game

[ducks]

Dude thinks he can be Rudy gay before
Injury

[south side spur]

Simmons was actually better in the RS and Playoffs. Wtf? :lol

10th most minutes behind porker ain't something to cry about. :lol

You're right. Your "eye test". That's validity right there. Look at the metrics (you know reality) they favor Anderson over Simmons.

[BatManu20]

The 27-year-old Houston native walked into free agency with the intentions of securing a deal of at least $50 million.


Lol.

[james evans]

If that's true, Pop needs to get over that bullshit real quick. This is the NBA.. These are pro athletes who are naturally going to be a little cocky. There is going to be some showboating. Simmons never did anything over the top, and anything he did pales in comparison to what guys like Steph Curry, Lebron, Harden, etc do after half their buckets (granted they're stars, but still). Let these guys have some fun man.

But I still think it was just a simple case of him wanting more dough than we were willing to dish out.
Popovich really has to go. Every black male doesn't have a cool calm demeanor like Duncan and Leonard. Mf thinks he's running a goddamn plantation trying to get young black millionaire to act a certain or he benches them. We all remember when Murray was killing Cleveland and had 11 points on a little hot streak. He gets in a tussle with, I think Irving, during a timeout and he doesn't play anymore for the rest of the game and a few after that. I'm sick of his shit.

[RD2191]

There you have it.

Understandable, Pop plays the same old fucks even if it means our downfall.

[RD2191]

Popovich really has to go. Every black male doesn't have a cool calm demeanor like Duncan and Leonard. Mf thinks he's running a goddamn plantation trying to get young black millionaire to act a certain or he benches them. We all remember when Murray was killing Cleveland and had 11 points on a little hot streak. He gets in a tussle with, I think Irving, during a timeout and he doesn't play anymore for the rest of the game and a few after that. I'm sick of his shit.

Yeah, pop needs to gtfo TBH.

[dabom]

You're right. Your "eye test". That's validity right there. Look at the metrics (you know reality) they favor Anderson over Simmons.

You can't play limited minutes and say someone played better.

Simmons is not gonna get benched when the heat shows up like fathead. Learn basketball then talk to me. :lol

[south side spur]

You can't play limited minutes and say someone played better.

Simmons is not gonna get benched when the heat shows up like fathead. Learn basketball then talk to me. :lol

Simmons is a dime a dozen player. It might even be addition by subtraction. Acting like he's a difference maker is hilarious

[dabom]

Simmons is a dime a dozen player. It might even be addition by subtraction. Acting like he's a difference maker is hilarious

He is OK vs the best team in the NBA. But we are debating if he is better than fathead. :lol

[south side spur]

He is OK vs the best team in the NBA. But we are debating if he is better than fathead. :lol

I know it's pathetic. Why focus on Anderson? The focus should be on White. He's just better at basketball. Losing Simmons is a non issue.

[dabom]

I know it's pathetic. Why focus on Anderson? The focus should be on White. He's just better at basketball. Losing Simmons is a non issue.

And yet he's not better. :lol

[DPG21920]

Lol Simmons thinking he was worth 50M :lol

[south side spur]

And yet he's not better. :lol

We're not talking dunking here right? That's all I'll give you. Shooting? Ball handling? Facilitating the offense? You're really going to say Simmons is better than White in those aspects of the game? And you question my basketball knowledge?

[dabom]

Defense, getting his own buckets. :lol faggot.

[raybies]

There you have it.
Wow either his head ballooned up like a hot air balloon or he really believes he can be a star. Either gonna be the next Lance Stephenson or Stephen Jackson imo

Magic don't have shooters or a star.. Could get brutal for him. Lack of experience with the players... eesh. GL

[DPG21920]

Also, I love the spin "I thought I was worth 50M". Then getting only 20M "ORL was a great choice". No, no they weren't. They just offered you the most money and it was not nearly what you thought it would be.

[marinoman]

I'm not saying Simmons was a keep at all costs player but We have no guards that could get to the basket now.
I hate our shooting guards....and centers...and pgs....good god

[raybies]

Lol Simmons thinking he was worth 50M :lol

#NewNBA tbh . Averages 6 points in Season, has a couple good games in the playoffs and thinks he was worth like 12 per. Sigh... Spurs tried to talk sense to him in my estimation. Who is this dude? Thought he was a Spur and part of the family but he's a mercenary. You know who the Spurs are. They get contracts and sacrifice and get taken care of later. I'm a little disappointed in Simmons but it's whatever. He wanted a raise and got it. Hope the grass is greener on the other side.

Payton/Simmons/Ross/Isaac/Vucevic

[south side spur]

Defense, getting his own buckets. :lol faggot.
Defense? I won't argue either way on that but let's not act like White is some turnstile he was all PAC 12 defense. Getting buckets? 6 points a game regular season? 10.5 in the playoffs? I don't know how White can match that juggernaut offense.

[raybies]

I'm not saying Simmons was a keep at all costs player but We have no guards that could get to the basket now.
Thought this too...
we'll be a chuckin along

[dabom]

Defense? I won't argue either way on that but let's not act like White is some turnstile he was all PAC 12 defense. Getting buckets? 6 points a game regular season? 10.5 in the playoffs? I don't know how White can match that juggernaut offense.

He doesn't even come close to guarding players simmons has. :lol

I'd be shocked if white averages more than any of those stats. :lol

[ducks]

Ball movement spurs won title
They hit open 3 threes

[DPG21920]

Don't you get the feeling that the Spurs just got tired of dealing with his shit, and his agent's? I really think they would have given him a package that would compare with that 3/20 deal he got, even if the third year was only half guaranteed or something similar. They didn't hang around as long as they did, if they always had no intention of bringing him back.

All the bullshit about Pop not wanting him back? All they had to do was not give a QO. Maybe they were thinking about some kind of S&T angle, but I'm not really feeling that.

I definitley think they were considering sign and trades with the report of the PHX deal, but that is a chicken & egg type thing.

I knew this was trouble when early on you heard reports of Simmons essentially "not going to cave to SA" and that he had a "number in his head" :lol. 50M :lol

I tried to tell people that if he was playing that game SA was going to as well. If he was trying to leverage SA and failed, they would not bid against themselves. I absolutely think SA got tried of the drama for a player that is so medicore to below average; even though they understood what this payday meant to him.

Simmons will look back years from now and understand he probably messed up but doesn't matter for either party in the big scheme of things.

[ducks]

Nude beaches for his daughters

[GSH]

"I want to be in position to play a decent amount of minutes per game," said Simmons. "I feel like I can excel playing enough minutes per game. I explained that to Pop (Gregg Popovich) and he understand that. ... I want to be able to continue to improve and still make a name for myself and I wasn't going to do that (with the Spurs). Not like I wanted to."


Oh shit, I hadn't see that. At his age? If he really has "goals" like that, he should have signed a 1-year deal and bet on himself. He'll be 30 when this deal is done, and unless he gets a LOT better, this is a good as it gets - if he doesn't kick ass in the last year of this contract, he'll be lucky to get a roster spot anywhere else.

I wonder if he really believes that he's going to be more in demand at 30 than he is right now? Because if he loses even a tiny bit of athleticism, he's got nothing else to fall back on.

[GSH]

I definitley think they were considering sign and trades with the report of the PHX deal, but that is a chicken & egg type thing.


My point was just that I don't think they extended the QO solely for the purpose of S&T. If they thought that some other team wanted him for a Patty-sized deal, it would have meant taking back that much salary, which probably means taking on a bad contract, and digging a deeper hole. The S&T idea had to have been Plan B.

There's a pretty good lesson here, and last season. The plum FA deals get signed early in free agency, and the ones who wait too long start getting desperate. Spurs need to keep some powder dry next offseason.

[Budkin]

Two tears.

All in for 2018-2019.

This is about all we have going for us now.

[SAGirl]

Lol Simmons thinking he was worth 50M :lol

It wasn't just the contract he wanted, though that was a big part of it.

He also mentioned "politics."

Probably wanted to play over Manu and Danny. He didn't think he had the opportunities to play and grow as much with the Spurs as elsewhere... meaning there were others ahead of him in the pecking order, as well as others behind him. The ones ahead of him weren't going to lose playing time for him, and the ones behind him and that includes rookies and players still being developed by the team in guards spots, would get playing time randomly through the season to develop. He was stuck in a bench role. He's not a youngster and can't afford for Manu to retire, for Danny to move on, or get traded??? Do you realize now that the potential Danny trades were to promote Simmons, give him the contract he wanted and the starting role he wanted?

It now all falls into place frankly. Unfortunately for JSimms, the Danny trades didn't pan out, Manu started deviating from what appeared to retiring and started "leaning in" to come back, the team drafted another guard, then on top of that in his eyes he got shafted in that trade deal not falling through after conversations were advanced. Basically he got fed up with the Spurs.

[SAGirl]

Wow either his head ballooned up like a hot air balloon or he really believes he can be a star. Either gonna be the next Lance Stephenson or Stephen Jackson imo

Magic don't have shooters or a star.. Could get brutal for him. Lack of experience with the players... eesh. GL

well you were buying what he was selling. He was a 2 way potential star player you said... he's getting his chance.

he chose the ideal situation. The Magic need any help they can get from wherever they can get it. The east is atrocious outside of Cleveland Boston and the Bucks (when healthy, Middleton and Jabari, on top of Brogdon should be great support for Antetoukoumpo)... anyways, he wanted to be an all star. He's ambitious. He's going to get his chance now... so good for him in the sense that he didn't back down from a goal.

[Raven]

good for him.

[callo1]

Glad for JS, he got his $$. A wonderful story to persevere like he did.

That being said, Brandon Paul is a much more polished scorer and play maker, especially for the money. No way teams are going to be able to sag off of Paul, or go under screens. Paul is a better fit for the Spurs in this NBA. Two inches shorter than JS, but his wingspan and slightly better athletic ability will make up for it.

[Biggems]

This reminds me of Stephen Jackson.....
He could have stayed with the Spurs, but over-valued himself and got a crap contract on a crap Atlanta team. Simmons over-valued himself, but a crappy Orlando team did pay him more than any other team. Still, he will be competing for the lottery instead of at least the conference finals. Adios and vaya con dios. Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

[Raven]

He is OK vs the best team in the NBA. But we are debating if he is better than fathead. :lol

he's not.

[Chinook]

he's not.

He's obviously not. People don't understand that guys like Neal and Beli easily outplayed Simmons "at his best". The team has zero issues with getting guys who can score 14 ppg on terrible efficiency when they are the low priority for the defense.

[therealtruth]

The irony. Pop complains when they don't compete and aren't mentally tough. When he gets someone that is mentally tough he doesn't try to keep him. How is this offer better than 9m/year?

[TheGreatYacht]

Manure costing us players because of his mandatory playing time even when he's 0-10. This is going to be tough on his fluffers to spin, according to them, players like him lmfao.

Sucks to lose the only guy that showed up against GS, but oh well. Can't wait to see Forbes not see the court over D-League Danny and Manure.

[ElNono]

Manure costing us players because of his mandatory playing time even when he's 0-10. This is going to be tough on his fluffers to spin, according to them, players like him lmfao.

Sucks to lose the only guy that showed up against GS, but oh well. Can't wait to see Forbes not see the court over D-League Danny and Manure.

Hopefully he signed somewhere else because he heard Manu is coming back, tbh... one can only hope...

[tbdog]

It took Simmons a full season plus before he got into the rotation. If it takes Paul the same amount of time, then that's a great pick up. But we will still be going backwards.

[ceperez]

It took Simmons a full season plus before he got into the rotation. If it takes Paul the same amount of time, then that's a great pick up. But we will still be going backwards.

Not if you are clearing cap space for an acquisition a year from now.

[exstatic]

Told you a guy with that athleticism was going to get paid in this league... plus even if he loses 80 games, he'll have a better marquee to show himself there, tbh...

The Spurs nickel and diming him though is kinda ridiculous, they could've signed him for that and then trade him mid-season. Dude had a good reputation...

They basically let him walk with nothing to show for it...
Sorry, I don't consider 2/$18M to be nickel and diming. That's almost as much as Orlando offered him for 3 years.

[james evans]

Lol Simmons thinking he was worth 50M :lol
JJ Reddickc is gettig $25 million next season. And all he does is hit open 3s. No defense, no creating his own shot. Nothing.

[Poolboy5623]

JJ Reddickc is gettig $25 million next season. And all he does is hit open 3s. No defense, no creating his own shot. Nothing.

So you want the Spurs to be like the Sixers lol??

[Perry Mason]

To me Simmons is making a fairly typical NBA mistake. He thinks that he will organically improve his numbers and consistency if he just gets playing time. Meaning the team is supposed to ride out all the growing pains.

But Pop knows better and tries to teach his players something key. It's the things you do off the court where you learn some consistency and intensity, and develop muscle memory and habits. So when you get your 10-15 minutes of playing time, you are very effective, help extend leads, get out of holes, etc. GMs above all look for role players like that, because they aren't going to substitute one for a star minutes wise.

I expect as JSimms works in ORL, he will start to better appreciate what he was taught, and if he succeeds, I bet he draws on it. He believes in himself, and which is good, but he needs to do the off court work to reach his potential. Him thinking Danny or Manu over him is politics is just wrong for now.

[raybies]

well you were buying what he was selling. He was a 2 way potential star player you said... he's getting his chance.

he chose the ideal situation. The Magic need any help they can get from wherever they can get it. The east is atrocious outside of Cleveland Boston and the Bucks (when healthy, Middleton and Jabari, on top of Brogdon should be great support for Antetoukoumpo)... anyways, he wanted to be an all star. He's ambitious. He's going to get his chance now... so good for him in the sense that he didn't back down from a goal.
Yes, but I liked his situation here so he could further establish himself. Like switching a fragile plant from pot to ground, if it's not done right it'll die. He barely sprouted out the seed in the playoffs. I like his ambitions which are fine but it's very dangerous. He wants to blow up it seems, instead of taking the steps, citing politics and minutes as to insinuate that that's the reason as to what's holding him back. How about being more efficient with what's given to you first and working your way up. Kind of entitled imo. He can do whatever he wants of course, but just disappointed and think it might be hard for him to do well with a new system with the unfamiliarity... Also when he started to get better, I thought it was because he was getting more comfortable in the system. Now he's uprooted and has to figure it out. How firm is his confidence if he hits the wall. Pop coddled him imo and gave him more leniency than say Anderson.

Yeah im buying him with the Spurs cause Pop has a good idea how to use him and he can further establish himself... Vogel has worked with Stephenson so he should no how to manage Simmons, I just don't think it was a smart business move. We'll see.

[RD2191]

Simmons is worth more than Patty. 50 mil for a no defense playing scrub. :lol

[ducks]

JJ Reddickc is gettig $25 million next season. And all he does is hit open 3s. No defense, no creating his own shot. Nothing.

The sixers had to sign someone with 25 million to get to min cap

[noles1983]

I wouldn't want to be on a team that paid Patty fucking Mills 50 million dollars either, tbh.

[horsielove]

THE JEWS... is gone. :depressed

[Mr. Body]

Simmons is worth more than Patty. 50 mil for a no defense playing scrub. :lol

Everyone in the NBA disagrees with you.

[wildbill2u]

Rudy Gay better think twice about dunking, tbh.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Pretty hard to dunk on one leg.

[bklynspursfan]

The irony. Pop complains when they don't compete and aren't mentally tough. When he gets someone that is mentally tough he doesn't try to keep him. How is this offer better than 9m/year?

You can't keep someone who wants out and overvalues himself.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Wow. Popovich outsmarting himself, again? I'm sure the Popologists will claim this Paul guy is going to be amazing, even though rookie never make much of an impact on popovich's system.

If you don't think Jonathan Simmons production can be duplicated you are just uniformed. Anyone who thinks the Spurs streak of 50 win seasons ends this year? I have $500.00 that says otherwise.

[picnroll]

If you don't think Jonathan Simmons production can be duplicated you are just uniformed. Anyone who thinks the Spurs streak of 50 win seasons ends this year? I have $500.00 that says otherwise.

What? You don't think Spurs will miss Simmons 29% 3 point shooting?

Under the watchful eye of Engullund Simmons shooting significantly took a dive year two to year one.

[RD2191]

Everyone in the NBA disagrees with you.

Umm no. More like patfo and idiots like you.

[Mr. Body]

Umm no. More like patfo and idiots like you.

That doesn't make sense.

[DPG21920]

Umm no. More like patfo and idiots like you.

If anyone in the nba valued Simmons more than Mills he would have been signed immediately. But he wasn't and got 3/20M which is far less than Mills got.

[steeledl]

Fucking stupid.

[steeledl]

Perfect way to make next yaer, a season we have no chance to compete, even more fucking boring. But hey, we have a lot of undersized shooting guards who cant play defense and only do one thing well..... so that will be fun

[SAGirl]

Yes, but I liked his situation here so he could further establish himself. Like switching a fragile plant from pot to ground, if it's not done right it'll die. He barely sprouted out the seed in the playoffs. I like his ambitions which are fine but it's very dangerous. He wants to blow up it seems, instead of taking the steps, citing politics and minutes as to insinuate that that's the reason as to what's holding him back. How about being more efficient with what's given to you first and working your way up. Kind of entitled imo. He can do whatever he wants of course, but just disappointed and think it might be hard for him to do well with a new system with the unfamiliarity... Also when he started to get better, I thought it was because he was getting more comfortable in the system. Now he's uprooted and has to figure it out. How firm is his confidence if he hits the wall. Pop coddled him imo and gave him more leniency than say Anderson.

Yeah im buying him with the Spurs cause Pop has a good idea how to use him and he can further establish himself... Vogel has worked with Stephenson so he should no how to manage Simmons, I just don't think it was a smart business move. We'll see.
Good points :tu
Its like Dion Waiters except Simmons agent convinced him not to do a risky one year deal bc if something happened to him and he got injured... or he came up short trying to carry an offense and had a bad season it would be minimum contracts from then on bc he's just older than other up and coming guards. He's got the irrational confidence, his agent had to ensure he got at least one contract to set him up. Bottom line, I now understand what he did.

[picnroll]

Surprised simmons didn't go for a third year player option so if he "blew up" he could go back on the market at age 29. Guess he had zero leverage.

[HarlemHeat37]

I wanted Simmons back, but it's very telling that he could only get a deal worth 6ish per year in a climate where even mediocre players are eating well(last off-season was an anomaly, looking back, but still)..

He should probably part ways with his management, tbh..they did a poor job of reading the market..

[ace3g]

886265600921788416

[GSH]

Yes, but I liked his situation here so he could further establish himself. Like switching a fragile plant from pot to ground, if it's not done right it'll die. He barely sprouted out the seed in the playoffs.


I had to stop reading after those first few sentences. Any more, and I'd have needed a testosterone injection. It reminded me more of Richard Simmons than Jonathan Simmons.

[GSH]

Surprised simmons didn't go for a third year player option so if he "blew up" he could go back on the market at age 29. Guess he had zero leverage.


He wanted 50 Million, but he didn't have the Juice.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 29s (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/886274035193139200)
ESPN Sources: Terms of Jonathon Simmons' three-year Orlando deal: $6.3M, $6M and $5.7M -- with partial guarantee of $1M in final season.

[ace3g]

886271383428186113

[raybies]

I had to stop reading after those first few sentences. Any more, and I'd have needed a testosterone injection. It reminded me more of Richard Simmons than Jonathan Simmons.
WAsnt for you tbh truth is truth and by that I mean eternal knowledge. Pearls aren't for everyone man

[raybies]

So 3 years 18 mil :wow

1 mill guaranteed last year.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

More like 3 years and 13 mil guaranteed :lol

[GSH]

ESPN Sources: Terms of Jonathon Simmons' three-year Orlando deal: $6.3M, $6M and $5.7M -- with partial guarantee of $1M in final season.


Wow, only $13M guaranteed? In that interview he talked about how $20M is lot of money. That's only $18M total. He better sign quick, before it goes down any more.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Langston Galloway got a better deal than him. His agent fucked up badly.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Simmons had a "breakout" playoff stretch on national TV and got less guaranteed money than Dedmon, who was in Pop's doghouse..

[RD2191]

That doesn't make sense.

Just because patfo panicked and signed a worthless guard who can't play defense at 12:01 doesn't mean teams were lining up to hand mills big bucks.

[Baam]

That's a nice deal for the Magic.

[DPG21920]

About what he was worth tbh.. :lmao "Simmons just wanted to be fairly compenstated by the Spurs and had a number in his head :cry"

[sasaint]

WAsnt for you tbh truth is truth and by that I mean eternal knowledge. Pearls aren't for everyone man

I got your analogy. I thought it was quite good. I hope Simmons takes root in Orlando, but I won't be surprised if he gets transplanted to Europe or China after year 2.

[GSH]

I got your analogy. I thought it was quite good. I hope Simmons takes root in Orlando, but I won't be surprised if he gets transplanted to Europe or China after year 2.


Seriously? Jonathan Simmons, The Fragile Flower?

This is all I have to say about that:

http://growingmarijuanatips.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/transplanting_marijuana_seedlings.jpg

[therealtruth]

If you don't think Jonathan Simmons production can be duplicated you are just uniformed. Anyone who thinks the Spurs streak of 50 win seasons ends this year? I have $500.00 that says otherwise.

The don't give you a championship for the amount of 50 win seasons you get. As we saw this season his value will be most missed in the playoffs. How many others on the Spurs outside of Danny/Kawhi will be able to defend Harden as well as he did ?

[Quadzilla99]

Thank God. So inconsistent and mediocre three point shooters who can't create their own shot consistently are pretty useless in today's NBA especially in the halfcourt

[sasaint]

Seriously? Jonathan Simmons, The Fragile Flower?

This is all I have to say about that:

http://growingmarijuanatips.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/transplanting_marijuana_seedlings.jpg

HaHa! You ALWAYS treat those as fragile flowers.

[raybies]

I got your analogy. I thought it was quite good. I hope Simmons takes root in Orlando, but I won't be surprised if he gets transplanted to Europe or China after year 2.
Neither would I. He made a very dangerous business decision. One thing to sign with an established business that offers a different kind of job stability then taking the job with more pay and crappy track record. I guess they are making good moves with the staff with Hammond and Forcier, but they are by no means a proven commodity. I like Isaac and Ross but they are set up in a way that he could very well be Stephen Jackson on a crap team, putting up inflated numbers or he could flame out like Lance.

I find it it hard to believe the Spurs didn't want to match 13 mill guaranteed. He slept with the Spurs got hurt then did the anger bang with Orlando to spite them imo. Hate it if true and this is just speculation but he said he felt he was worth 50 and with the Spurs holding the cards and not giving into his demands he was probably bitter cause he felt he earned more lol

But really Spurs owned him basically and could of had him for less but they set him free. Good form. Glad they didn't put up with his crap. Would of set a bad example for the rest of their signings. But how they handled Simms says a lot. You don't have to be here.(Letting him walk) It's a privilege to play here.(Quickly finding a much cheaper alternative) And this goes to role players... We take care of our guys if you put in the time.(Patty, Manu,Pau)

The system can be frustrating as some can admit, but they've done what they can to make a small market a contender.

[picnroll]

Hope he gets a good, honest financial adviser and doesn't piss his money away on bad advice, cars and jewelry. Likely his one chance for lifetime financial security.

[sasaint]

Neither would I. He made a very dangerous business decision. One thing to sign with an established business that offers a different kind of job stability then taking the job with more pay and crappy track record. I guess they are making good moves with the staff with Hammond and Forcier, but they are by no means a proven commodity. I like Isaac and Ross but they are set up in a way that he could very well be Stephen Jackson on a crap team, putting up inflated numbers or he could flame out like Lance.

I find it it hard to believe the Spurs didn't want to match 13 mill guaranteed. He slept with the Spurs got hurt then did the anger bang with Orlando to spite them imo. Hate it if true and this is just speculation but he said he felt he was worth 50 and with the Spurs holding the cards and not giving into his demands he was probably bitter cause he felt he earned more lol

But really Spurs owned him basically and could of had him for less but they set him free. Good form. Glad they didn't put up with his crap. Would of set a bad example for the rest of their signings. But how they handled Simms says a lot. You don't have to be here.(Letting him walk) It's a privilege to play here.(Quickly finding a much cheaper alternative) And this goes to role players... We take care of our guys if you put in the time.(Patty, Manu,Pau)

The system can be frustrating as some can admit, but they've done what they can to make a small market a contender.

Yep. We don't know what Juice was like in practice (with apologies to AI) or in the locker room - or whether the $9MM "offer" from the Spurs was anything more than a rumor (started by his agent?), but the fact that he signed for a much lower amount, and the Spurs apparently didn't feel like renewing negotiations with him says that PATFO felt like he was definitely not really worth having around. Adiós and buena suerte.

[Russ]

Orlando finally gets their Spur.

[dabom]

Good luck with the Magic. :tu

[DPG21920]

That he was. Had some very jump out of your seat moments.

[dabom]

This is a no bitch zone. We can't have sagirl stinking up the place. :lol

[Seventyniner]

Best mean-mug I've seen in a long time, too.

[tholdren]

That he was. Had some very jump out of your seat moments.

Yes he was a good story, too bad he just didnt stick it out. Rent free, right?

[SAGirl]

886271383428186113

Stay classy Spurs.
As fans we enjoyed watching him play. Wish him the best in Orlando and that he gets whatever he was looking for.

[ace3g]

886311390817996800

886311785900507137

886312215783067648

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Trying to save face after landing a horrible deal. Too late.

[DPG21920]

Good to see that. Despite any beef Simmons had with SA in his mind, SA did what VERY FEW franchises would do and acted in his best interest vs their own.

SA had no incentive to rescind the QO - they did it because Simmons needed it.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'm not sure where the bad blood and toxicity is and why everyone thinks the bridge was burned to ashes. They just realized his personal and financial goals weren't attainable in SA and did the next best thing, which was to lift the restricted tag.

[ace3g]

886314810668961793

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

886314810668961793

I'm sorry but LOL.

[dabom]

I was talking to my brother about this. Simmons is mad about being a Restricted Free Agent.

I don't know how contracts work too much but the Spurs take a gamble to develop a player, give him minutes other players can use, the Spurs need to be able to get first dibs on said player.

The Spurs aren't giving him a contract without making sure he becomes a RFA, and he ain't getting one by any other team.

Simmons signed the contract and is upset with that obligation. Don't blame the Spurs for looking out for themselves. They are like I said, also taking a gamble.

The Spurs probably gave him the best contract, best team available, and still made him a free agent. You can't blame the Spurs.

[SAGirl]

Langston Galloway got a better deal than him. His agent fucked up badly.

His agent did tell the media the Spurs handicapped him?
more like the restricted free agent system handicapped him...

[DPG21920]

I was talking to my brother about this. Simmons is mad about being a Restricted Free Agent.

I don't know how contracts work too much but the Spurs take a gamble to develop a player, give him minutes other players can use, the Spurs need to be able to get first dibs on said player.

The Spurs aren't giving him a contract without making sure he becomes a RFA, and he ain't getting one by any other team.

Simmons signed the contract and is upset with that obligation. Don't blame the Spurs for looking out for themselves. They are like I said, also taking a gamble.

The Spurs probably gave him the best contract, best team available, and still made him a free agent. You can't blame the Spurs.

Also, tons of RFA got offer sheets. Simmons was low, low man on the totem pole.

[dabom]

Also, tons of RFA got offer sheets. Simmons was low, low man on the totem pole.

Yeah, lol. If a team wanted to give him 50 mil, they would have. :lol

No brainer.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, lol. If a team wanted to give him 50 mil, they would have. :lol

No brainer.

Especially when other teams talking to Simmons knew his negoations with SA weren't going well. Even as a RFA it would not have taken much for SA to let him go.

[dabom]

Especially when other teams talking to Simmons knew his negoations with SA weren't going well. Even as a RFA it would not have taken much for SA to let him go.

Other teams were like, "well that's actually a good deal"... "we can't pay more than that" and he doesn't get any other offers. :lol

I'm actually inclined to believe the Spurs were gonna overpay on a player for once. :lol

[toki9]

His agent did tell the media the Spurs handicapped him?

Yes. The night Simmons was released, Jabari Young tweeted that he had just talked to Simmon's agent. And then he soon filed a story attributing "league source" that Simmons' representation was displeased with the way Spurs was treating Simmons. I would guess that most of the leaks in this process probably came from the agent in order to drive up Simmons price. The agent doesn't have any "name" client--Simmons is by far his "biggest" client. This is probably a case in which the agent had a number in his head for Simmons--which became a number in Simmons' head. And the agent tried to hardball RC (who probably has seen just about everything over the past 20+ years) and just way overplayed his hand due to inexperience. Also note that the the contract number that came out initially was $20 Million, which Sham had attributed it directly to the agent. So if Woj is accurate, then the agent intentionally put out a larger number, i.e., major spin for his own sake (not necessarily for Simmons' sake). He's probably in a major damage control mode, trying to repair relationship both with the Spurs and with his client. Remember, this free agency represented not only a big pay day for Simmons, but probably the biggest pay day ever for the agent as well. Spurs went through something very similar with Stephen Jackson, as some others have pointed out. It's nothing RC hasn't seen before, and he knew to just walk away in situations like this.

[HarlemHeat37]

His agent should be fired, tbh..Simmons and George Hill were the biggest losers of free agency, both received poor advice and played themselves..

[Seventyniner]

Wow, only $13M guaranteed? In that interview he talked about how $20M is lot of money. That's only $18M total. He better sign quick, before it goes down any more.

:lol

It would be another thing if contracts were actually reported in after-tax money, too. With the current 40% marginal tax bracket above $400k plus other taxes (Social Security, Medicare, etc), players might clear half of what's reported.

Don't get me wrong, $6.5M cash over 2+ years is still quite a bit of money, but it's easy to be disappointed in it when in your mind you've had to go from $50M to 20 to 13.

[dabom]

Dude is blessed to make millions at such a young age after taxes.

[weebo]

Simmons will go way of Gary Neal...when he could have gone way of Danny Green.

[therealtruth]

He was expecting 50M? That's Patty Mills type money. No way. The Spurs were going to offer him 9m for how many years?

[spurraider21]

Dude is blessed to make millions at such a young age after taxes.
sure, same with every nba player, even those making the minimum... but in the microcosm of the nba, he did poorly

[ace3g]

886388384612089856

[dabom]

886388384612089856

Dudes a warrior. He had that manu "will of the warrior" trait, but not the skill. :tu

[GSH]

886388384612089856


Everybody making lemonade. Simmons, his agent, even the Spurs. Positive positive positive.

[BatManu20]

Wish he would've stayed at the same price the Magic got him for, but I ain't mad at him. Good luck in Orlando youngblood.

[therealtruth]

Simmons will go way of Gary Neal...when he could have gone way of Danny Green.

Exact opposite of Gary Neal. Neal got by on his great offense. Simmons has really great defense and so-so offense. I would much rather take the defense and the desire to improve since the offense you can teach, e.g. Kawhi Leonard.

[exstatic]

Wish he would've stayed at the same price the Magic got him for, but I ain't mad at him. Good luck in Orlando youngblood.

Wish he would have taken their 2/$18M offer. The second year was not guaranteed, but I've been a fan since just post Iceman, and never remember them not picking up a guarantee. Essentially, the bar he would have had to clear was to continue to work hard and improve. He didn't want to be here.

[sasaint]

Wish he would have taken their 2/$18M offer. The second year was not guaranteed, but I've been a fan since just post Iceman, and never remember them not picking up a guarantee. Essentially, the bar he would have had to clear was to continue to work hard and improve. He didn't want to be here.

True story! :tu But I wish him well, even though I would not be surprised to see him flame out.

[dbestpro]

His agent should be fired, tbh..Simmons and George Hill were the biggest losers of free agency, both received poor advice and played themselves..

One could argue that Rudy Gay was the big loser, financially.

[bd_monster]

Simmons will go way of Gary Neal...when he could have gone way of Danny Green. I feel this is the most accurate statement. Was thinking this the other day.

[coachmac87]

One could argue that Rudy Gay was the big loser, financially.

How so?

[Kindergarten Cop]

Wish he would have taken their 2/$18M offer. The second year was not guaranteed, but I've been a fan since just post Iceman, and never remember them not picking up a guarantee. Essentially, the bar he would have had to clear was to continue to work hard and improve. He didn't want to be here.

886440575435755520

[DisAsTerBot]

Qualifying offer is an offer

[8FOR!3]

Hope he does well in Orlando, not like they're going anywhere this year so maybe he'll at least show out.

[Seventyniner]

How so?

He opted out of $14M for next season alone with the Kings to get 17 over two seasons with the Spurs, or roughly 8.5 this year if he opts out.

[therealtruth]

Wish he would have taken their 2/$18M offer. The second year was not guaranteed, but I've been a fan since just post Iceman, and never remember them not picking up a guarantee. Essentially, the bar he would have had to clear was to continue to work hard and improve. He didn't want to be here.

Injuries factor into why players might wanted more guaranteed money. Let's say he gets injured. They might not pick up his option. All we've heard i the Spurs were offering 9M/year but not how many years or how much was guaranteed.

[weebo]

Exact opposite of Gary Neal. Neal got by on his great offense. Simmons has really great defense and so-so offense. I would much rather take the defense and the desire to improve since the offense you can teach, e.g. Kawhi Leonard.

Neal thought the grass was greener and has bounced around. Green stayed and carved a nice career for himself on the same team.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I liked Simmons, but those who are making him out to be some defensive savant are way off base. Just look at the analytics. He did well in game 6 against Harden largely due to DA's asinine offensive structure. During the season he was frequently out of position and got back doored with some regularity. Athleticism is a plus on defense, but the Spurs scheme requires BBIQ over athleticism. He likely could have gotten that contract from the Spurs and played on a winning team that is striving to overtake GSW. Instead he ended up on a team that will be striving to just make the playoffs. He may not have "enjoyed" playing for Pop, but playing for a team that goes into games with really no expectation of winning gets old real fast.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Apparently according to Marc Spears, Pop and Simmons didn't get along. Poop didn't like Simmons' showboating after dunks and Simmons felt restrained here. Reminds me of Dedmon getting pulled out in the playoffs after showing too much heart and fire.

Reminds me of a certain player of the same type, personality and similar young player that we let slip through the cracks in the post-championship summer of 2003.

Am I right?

[duncan2k5]

This is the only deal worth more than the min that Simmons will see his entire career. You don't want to be paying any players who are in that boat. If the Spurs are relying on Juice, it's already a lost cause. He had ball in his hands in playoffs because there were literally no other options. I let the regular season replacement level play speak for itself over some sweet highlights.

This is no different than Boban. CoJo on the other hand, a necessary casualty because of Aldridge, is a different story. Not the sexiest but will be a rotation guy for years to come.

There were no other options for mills and Aldridge either, and they both shit the bed BIG time

[duncan2k5]

I liked Simmons, but those who are making him out to be some defensive savant are way off base. Just look at the analytics. He did well in game 6 against Harden largely due to DA's asinine offensive structure. During the season he was frequently out of position and got back doored with some regularity. Athleticism is a plus on defense, but the Spurs scheme requires BBIQ over athleticism. He likely could have gotten that contract from the Spurs and played on a winning team that is striving to overtake GSW. Instead he ended up on a team that will be striving to just make the playoffs. He may not have "enjoyed" playing for Pop, but playing for a team that goes into games with really no expectation of winning gets old real fast.

That same asinine structure lit up our supposed stopper Danny green

[buttsR4rebounding]

That same asinine structure lit up our supposed stopper Danny green
Primarily in game 1 before the Spurs had time to work on their defensive scheme. So are you arguing that the analytics that Simmons was a negative defender are wrong? Don't get me wrong. I wanted him to stay. I think he could have developed into a very nice piece, but he wasn't there yet.

[cjw]

There were no other options for mills and Aldridge either, and they both shit the bed BIG time

What are you talking about? Mills had no options because he was signed right as he hit the open market. He undoubtedly would have garnered plenty of interest and gotten $10mm+ per year. Sometimes you pay up just a slight bit more to close the deal. Aldridge had other suitors. Heck, he walked out on the Lakers.

[coachmac87]

He opted out of $14M for next season alone with the Kings to get 17 over two seasons with the Spurs, or roughly 8.5 this year if he opts out.

I understand that but I think Gay knew that would be the case when he opted out of 14M coming off an Achilles...

Simmons had higher expectations for himself money wise..

[duncan2k5]

What are you talking about? Mills had no options because he was signed right as he hit the open market. He undoubtedly would have garnered plenty of interest and gotten $10mm+ per year. Sometimes you pay up just a slight bit more to close the deal. Aldridge had other suitors. Heck, he walked out on the Lakers.

Dude... When I said they had no other options, I was referring to the statement about Simmons only putting up numbers vs the Warriors because we had no other options... Now with that context, reread my poat

[spursmvp]

What are you talking about? Mills had no options because he was signed right as he hit the open market. He undoubtedly would have garnered plenty of interest and gotten $10mm+ per year. Sometimes you pay up just a slight bit more to close the deal. Aldridge had other suitors. Heck, he walked out on the Lakers.

Plenty of interest for a undersized subpar volume shooter who can't play a lick of defense? Why did we have to pay up for that, we have plenty of shooters on our team that shoot around that percentage.

[RD2191]

Plenty of interest for a undersized subpar volume shooter who can't play a lick of defense? Why did we have to pay up for that, we have plenty of shooters on our team that shoot around that percentage.

Lol. Mills apologists are pathetic TBH. As if an undersized shooter who plays no defense would be that hard fo find. :lol

[therealtruth]

Lol. Mills apologists are pathetic TBH. As if an undersized shooter who plays no defense would be that hard fo find. :lol

It's CIA Pop. Mills knowing the Spurs overpaid for him is going to come into training camp in the best shape and have his best year.

[SAGirl]

905256658212933632

915031699846782976

I wish him a good season tbh.

[TheDoctor]

905256658212933632

915031699846782976

I wish him a good season tbh.
Farewell and take care JSimms :toast

[raybies]

Orlando desperate for a star tbh

[SAGirl]

Orlando desperate for a star tbh
They are. I actually looked JSimms up bc I am very curious how he fares there. They need anybody that can step up. Their pick from this year looks good. Hezonja isn't looking so good. Granted just the one preseason game. Funny as it sounds sometimes one watches teams like that just to see how guys are faring. At least they have a more measured approach currently. I don't know that Payton is starting material. Their problems start from there.

[raybies]

They are. I actually looked JSimms up bc I am very curious how he fares there. They need anybody that can step up. Their pick from this year looks good. Hezonja isn't looking so good. Granted just the one preseason game. Funny as it sounds sometimes one watches teams like that just to see how guys are faring. At least they have a more measured approach currently. I don't know that Payton is starting material. Their problems start from there.

Well they really haven't a)drafted well or b) developed them properly. Probably a combination of both. They gave up Saric for Payton cause they were desperate for a PG and sacrificed an additional pick if I'm not mistaken.

But Isaac looks legit. I like him a lot and they do have Hammond now who did wonders in Milwaukee with his selections. So they are putting it together slowly. Simmons has Cap Jack potential imo so he could be special there. He's got a lot of motivation and now he got a taste in the playoffs so he should be hungry. Time to sink or swim. But I'll be following him too. I hope he does well from a person to person standpoint. He literally came from the bottom. It's a great story and I want to see what the next chapter goes or if the book is done...

[Prose]

orlando, especially last year, had like 15 centers/powerforwards on their team and had to play gordon at the 3 lol really.

[Chinook]

orlando, especially last year, had like 15 centers/powerforwards on their team and had to play gordon at the 3 lol really.

They wanted play him there.

[ducks]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-magic-grizzlies-preseason-game-1003-story.html
Simmons, the team’s marquee offseason signing, catapulted his new teammates off their bench three times with emphatic dunks as the Magic opened their 2017 exhibition schedule with a 92-84 loss to the Memphis Grizzlies at the FedEx Forum

[SAGirl]

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2017/10/10/jonathon-simmons-growing-game-preseason/

What stood out to me:

The Spurs knew some of his limitations and they had their structure to fit him into. Simmons admitted as he arrived in Orlando that the Spurs’ structured style did not fit his game perfectly.

in Monday’s game, with five rotation players sitting out including four starters, Simmons got the chance to show just what he might look like as the sixth man and leading scorer off the bench.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwF7Fp9sYvE

Simmons finished with 19 points, making 6 of his 14 shots and 2 of his 5 3-pointers. He got to the line to make 5 of his 7 free throws. It was not the most efficient performance. No one is ready to give Simmons this kind of featured role full time.
Slowly he seems to be growing into this featured role he has never had before.
For whatever preseason stats are worth, Simmons is averaging 12.5 points per game in 21.7 minutes per game. He is shooting just 40.8 percent from the floor and 18.2 percent from beyond the arc (2 for 11). His usage rate, according to NBA.com, is at 27.9 percent.
Simmons is certainly feeling enough freedom this preseason to push his game around. That has been both a good and a bad thing for the Magic in the preseason.
It has been good because this is the time for Simmons to experiment. Offensively, he has shown some ability to drive into the lane. Once Simmons gets there, he is still learning what to do with the ball. He is not yet a great distributor. That part is not natural to his game.
It has been bad because it has shown the limitations in his game. Or at least where his game has yet to go.

It will be interesting to see how he does through the season. Overall the Magic seem to be experimenting with how far he can go in preseason and so far they really consider him the best FA acquisition of their modest offseason.

[Chinook]

Really interesting how the mics Orlando had in their baskets made those threes sound like sonic booms.

[hooperflash]

Really interesting how the mics Orlando had in their baskets made those threes sound like sonic booms.
You mean Dallas? I remember those Sonic booms when Keer went OFF!!

[rjv]

simmons is already at his ceiling. magic will get what SA had, an occasional spark offensively that comes with frequent turnovers and horrible shooting games. there will also be that game every once in a while where he gives you some great numbers.

[Chinook]

I like Brandon Paul more, even though I'm not sure he's better. Paul seems to be fitting in better already than Simmons did after two seasons. But he's not as explosive as Jonathon and so he has a lower ceiling.

[SAGirl]

simmons is already at his ceiling. magic will get what SA had, an occasional spark offensively that comes with frequent turnovers and horrible shooting games. there will also be that game every once in a while where he gives you some great numbers.

His TO have been very much in control and he wasn't TO prone in the playoffs I might add... but that has come along with him also not assisting others as much. His usage has skyrocketed and his assists are down.
It's fine to experiment in preseason, but he's obviously not a guy you want at 27% usage an entire season IMO. I do wish him the best and I have wondered if he could be what his fandom thinks he could be. I was inclined to believe no bc he just wasn't that efficient last season even in a smaller role, but who knows? The Magic need any help they can get. He will be interesting to keep track of.

[BillMc]

simmons is already at his ceiling. magic will get what SA had, an occasional spark offensively that comes with frequent turnovers and horrible shooting games. there will also be that game every once in a while where he gives you some great numbers.


I like Brandon Paul more, even though I'm not sure he's better. Paul seems to be fitting in better already than Simmons did after two seasons. But he's not as explosive as Jonathon and so he has a lower ceiling.

These

[TheGreatYacht]

Simmons would be the best bench player on this roster, though that's not saying much.

[ducks]

he would be cancer because pop thinks he is not white enough even though whites should be uncomfortable according to him

[james evans]

I just didn't like getting rid of him and Dedmond. But I guess they know what they're doing

[TheGreatYacht]

29pts, 7rebs, and 5ast tonight on 13/24 shooting and 3/6 from three

Magic lost because their players are falling like flies. I mean, Hezonja's scrub ass is not only seeing the court... he's starting at Power Forward.

In b4 SADude asks why we keep talking about Simmons like he ain't bumping threads when he has bad games

[Chinook]

As I said in the game thread, I'm loving it from a fantasy perspective. However, dude keeps putting up negative impact stats. Not a good look.

[dabom]

Are they losing cause of him, or competing cause of him. There's a difference.

[duncan2k5]

Are they losing cause of him, or competing cause of him. There's a difference.

Exactly! They expect that trash team to win because of just Simmons... And these are the same idiots that say Brandon Paul is better... Lmfao!

[Chinook]

You don't have negative impact stats if you are a good player on a bad team. It's just not the way the stats work

[duncan2k5]

You don't have negative impact stats if you are a good player on a bad team. It's just not the way the stats work

They don't get it... Lol

[Chinook]

They don't get it... Lol

I assume the Magic lose because they don't play guys one on one like the Spurs do.

[Maddog]

I wished they had kept him, however I get the impression he didn’t want to stay and the Spurs did him a solid. With Danny, kawhi and Rudyard he wasn't going to get the minutes he's getting.
That said, he does seem to put up nice stats with low impact.

[DAF86]

29pts, 7rebs, and 5ast tonight on 13/24 shooting and 3/6 from three

Magic lost because their players are falling like flies. I mean, Hezonja's scrub ass is not only seeing the court... he's starting at Power Forward.

In b4 SADude asks why we keep talking about Simmons like he ain't bumping threads when he has bad games

-13 on a game his team lost by 7. Once again the worst +/- of the Magic. :lol

[DAF86]

Too bad Magic games don't get broadcasted much. It's really intriguing how Simmons keeps putting solid individual numbers but he still leads the team in negative +/- virtually every game. I would like to see if watching some games would help make sense of this.

[raybies]

His production for this year is impressive and he is in MIP conversation so I'm happy for him but personally I'd rather have the versatility of Gay than Simmons. Big numbers on bad teams doesn't always translate. With that said I'm gonna watch some upcoming games.

Edit: Capt. Jack won games for his teams and even on bad teams cause he made winning plays. The "We Believe" Warriors and the unexpected run at the playoffs with the then Bobcats with BoBo. Maybe that's the next step in Jon's development. One step at a time I guess.

[FkLA]

I was always in Simmons' corner but I don't really see the point of crying about him leaving given Fathead's improvement and Rudy fitting in so well. I wouldn't give up either of those guys for him even if Simmons was the perfect Spur, which in hindsight he wasn't since he didn't seem to want to be here and wast fully down with the Spurs culture.

[Mr. Body]

I was always in Simmons' corner but I don't really see the point of crying about him leaving given Fathead's improvement and Rudy fitting in so well. I wouldn't give up either of those guys for him even if Simmons was the perfect Spur, which in hindsight he wasn't since he didn't seem to want to be here and wast fully down with the Spurs culture.

Agree. I don't see a place for him on this team. He's too erratic, to me. Anderson is becoming the perfect glue guy and Gay is potentially one of the best vet pick-ups this team has ever made.

[duncan2k5]

Too bad Magic games don't get broadcasted much. It's really intriguing how Simmons keeps putting solid individual numbers but he still leads the team in negative +/- virtually every game. I would like to see if watching some games would help make sense of this.

It's not difficult... He plays on the Magic bench... As bad as the starters are, the bench will have an even worse plus minus

[DAF86]

It's not difficult... He plays on the Magic bench... As bad as the starters are, the bench will have an even worse plus minus

He's starting, tbh.

[duncan2k5]

Simmons was ranked #56 last year in +/- per game... U know why? BECAUSE HE PLAYED ON A GOOD TEAM! lol... Zaza was ranked in the top 10 last year for plus minus... So I guess that means if u replace Simmons with Zaza they would be a winning team...

[duncan2k5]

Blake griffin had a higher +/- than Kawhi last year... I guess that means we need to do this trade...

[r0drig0lac]

Why are people using +/- as proof of the quality of a player (logically biased, when this statistic is clearly collective, but I will fish anyway)? This is statistic that had Matt Bonner always as one of the best on the team, right?

[Chinook]

Why are people using +/- as proof of the quality of a player (logically biased, when this statistic is clearly collective, but I will fish anyway)? This is statistic that had Matt Bonner always as one of the best on the team, right?

Matt Bonner was a harbinger for the end of the PF position as we knew it. People are too quick to dismiss his statistical impact. This sin't a Boozer-DRtg thing. Anyways, plus-minus over a huge sample usually weeds out most of the objections. While Simmons having a bad result despite good raw numbers could just be a fluke, if it keeps happening, something is up.

[Hoops Czar]

Matt Bonner was a harbinger for the end of the PF position as we knew it. People are too quick to dismiss his statistical impact. This sin't a Boozer-DRtg thing. Anyways, plus-minus over a huge sample usually weeds out most of the objections. While Simmons having a bad result despite good raw numbers could just be a fluke, if it keeps happening, something is up.

It's not just this year. The only time in his NBA career (regular season and postseason, Spanning two teams) he had a positive +/- was last year's regular season (+2.7).

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It's not only his +/- , his Off/Def Rtg are terrible too, and virtually any other impact metric, regardless whether he's starting or playing from the bench.

[gospursgojas]

Still talking about this guy? Spurs have Rudy now upgrade.

[duncan2k5]

It's not just this year. The only time in his NBA career (regular season and postseason, Spanning two teams) he had a positive +/- was last year's regular season (+2.7).

Dude... He has been in the league for two years... Lmfao! Year before last he was a rookie

[duncan2k5]

It's not only his +/- , his Off/Def Rtg are terrible too, and virtually any other impact metric, regardless whether he's starting or playing from the bench.

Of course those numbers will be bad if he in on a losing team! I don't think u understand statistics... Plus his Orb and Dr numbers aren't horrible, but they aren't gonna get much better with the team he is on

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Of course those numbers will be bad if he in on a losing team!

There are a lot of average wings with average/positive impact stats on losing teams.


I don't think u understand statistics...

This is rich coming from you of all people :lol


Plus his Orb and Dr numbers aren't horrible, but they aren't gonna get much better with the team he is on

They're pretty horrible actually. They were kind of bad last season too on a 61-21 team with a top 3 bench in the NBA.

[TheGreatYacht]

If you believe Simmons is a bad defender, like the metrics made up by dweebs said he was last year, then I can tell you don't watch any games :lol

He was our second best perimeter defender behind Kawhi, and it honestly wasn't even close.

[rjv]

i remember when willie anderson used to put up big numbers.

[DAF86]

Of course those numbers will be bad if he in on a losing team! I don't think u understand statistics... Plus his Orb and Dr numbers aren't horrible, but they aren't gonna get much better with the team he is on

Stats such as BPM or VORP account for the level of your teammates, tbh.

[Chucho]

LOL. "Advanced" metrics. They're designed to make a game seem more complicated than it is.

[DAF86]

LOL. "Advanced" metrics. They're designed to make a game seem more complicated than it is.

Actually, they are designed to make it simpler.

[TheGreatYacht]

"Advanced" metrics said we were better without Kawhi last year

:lol virgins that can't dribble a basketball wanted to get involved with the game, so they pulled stats out of their asses

[Chucho]

Actually, they are designed to make it simpler.

I dunno how. "Raw" stats seem pretty simple. TS%, +/- and the whole lot don't make it easier for the average fan.

[DAF86]

"Advanced" metrics said we were better without Kawhi last year

No, they didn't. :lol

In fact the raw, "no-depth having" numbers are the ones that indicate that the Spurs went 7-1 when Kawhi didn't play.

[DAF86]

I dunno how. "Raw" stats seem pretty simple. TS%, +/- and the whole lot don't make it easier for the average fan.

Well, understanding advanced stats, which isn't anything really that diffuclt, makes the game easier to understand. It opens your eyes and it makes you pay attention to things you might not have pay attention to before.

[Chucho]

Well, understanding advanced stats, which isn't anything really that diffuclt, makes the game easier to understand. It opens your eyes and it makes you pay attention to things you might not have pay attention to before.

Real comment, not tryna be a dick, but for instance, which stats would you suggest make it easier for a casual fan to understand and open their eyes?

[DAF86]

Real comment, not tryna be a dick, but for instance, which stats would you suggest make it easier for a casual fan to understand and open their eyes?

The ones I've mentioned before: BPM and VORP are probably the best ones available to determine the impact that a player has on games.

But then you have a lot of simpler ones like comparing field goal % to true shooting %. If a guy makes half of his shots and the other makes 40 % of them, it doesn't mean that the guy that makes half of his shots is automatically more efficient. Or points per game, just because a guy scores more points per game than another it doesn't automatically mean that that player is the better scorer. Same shit with assists and rebounds and any other thing that you can think of. It really isn't that difficult, tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

Manu Ginobili:
-2.7BPM
-0.1VORP

:wow This nigga should be behind Derrick White on the depth chart

[SAGirl]

It's pointless to really debate JSimms.

One has to be happy for him that he's reached the level that he aspired to. He's in the starting lineup of an NBA team. He's more than doubled his scoring with higher usage and against starting level competition and is generating a lot of his own shots. That was really what he wanted.

His next development if he can reach it is that he has to be more than just a scorer with no impact on the game otherwise to alter it's outcome. Is he helping the team win or is he simply taking baskets for himself that the team can generate anyways through other players?

He's maybe hustling less. He's not grabbing rebounds, loose balls, or being a pest defensively, his hustle has gown down.

There is no point in discussing him much. He's like Marco or CoJo, or Baynes, an ex-spur that one has to be happy about when they play well and wish them the best, even thank him for the good memories. To some degree one misses their energy, but that is it. (Team could use a Baynes off the bench instead of a Joff for example)

Only TGY and some trolls overrate him like he's Michael Jordan.

[TheGreatYacht]

"One has to be happy for" .... as he continues to shit on Fathead's superior and continues to bump his threads when he gets crossed over :lol

Stop with the fake tears faggot. That's why your boy is nursing his large cracked cranium while the team keeps winning without him.

[ernest787]

"One has to be happy for" .... as he continues to shit on Fathead's superior and continues to bump his threads when he gets crossed over :lol

Stop with the fake tears faggot. That's why your boy is nursing his large cracked cranium while the team keeps winning without him.

:wow:wow:wow:wow:wow:wow :rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin: rollin:rollin:rollin

[BD24]

Poor SAguy always getting shit on by TGY.

[Chinook]

I dunno how. "Raw" stats seem pretty simple. TS%, +/- and the whole lot don't make it easier for the average fan.

It depends on what you mean. If the goal is just to have fans smile and nod, then most things make it harder. If the goal is so the average Joe understands why the game is trending the way it is, those stats help. TS% is a great way to see why the league is going small nowadays. The other stats are less helpful. Something like RPM is misleading as hell if you used it to compare players without context. Like it has LMA as a mediocre starting big and a negative defensively when he's been the best player on the team by far and in the middle of an All-NBA--caliber season.

[duncan2k5]

There are a lot of average wings with average/positive impact stats on losing teams.



This is rich coming from you of all people :lol



They're pretty horrible actually. They were kind of bad last season too on a 61-21 team with a top 3 bench in the NBA.

Compare it to other players on the team dude... Lol... U talk as if you know own what you are saying... There are players more beloved on the team that had worse numbers... But it's OK since they are more liked

[duncan2k5]

It's pointless to really debate JSimms.

One has to be happy for him that he's reached the level that he aspired to. He's in the starting lineup of an NBA team. He's more than doubled his scoring with higher usage and against starting level competition and is generating a lot of his own shots. That was really what he wanted.

His next development if he can reach it is that he has to be more than just a scorer with no impact on the game otherwise to alter it's outcome. Is he helping the team win or is he simply taking baskets for himself that the team can generate anyways through other players?

He's maybe hustling less. He's not grabbing rebounds, loose balls, or being a pest defensively, his hustle has gown down.

There is no point in discussing him much. He's like Marco or CoJo, or Baynes, an ex-spur that one has to be happy about when they play well and wish them the best, even thank him for the good memories. To some degree one misses their energy, but that is it. (Team could use a Baynes off the bench instead of a Joff for example)

Only TGY and some trolls overrate him like he's Michael Jordan.

U don't watch magic games and are making a lot of assumptions

[duncan2k5]

Funny how even Magic players absolutely love jSimms... And they watch all the games, so would know his impact on their team better than us.... They even prefer Simmy over Fournier...to the point they wanna trade Fournier... But I can guarantee ppl on this board would say Fournier is better than jSimms without any context

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Compare it to other players on the team dude... Lol... U talk as if you know own what you are saying... There are players more beloved on the team that had worse numbers... But it's OK since they are more liked

Go ahead, compare. Make a case.

[Chinook]

Funny how even Magic players absolutely love jSimms... And they watch all the games, so would know his impact on their team better than us.... They even prefer Simmy over Fournier...to the point they wanna trade Fournier... But I can guarantee ppl on this board would say Fournier is better than jSimms without any context

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2018/on-off/

There's your context. Simmons' numbers are worse than any other rotation player on the team. That means that no, it's not because he's on a bad team. He's making that bad team worse when he's on the floor.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2018.html

His impact stats are much worse than most of his teammates. Who cares whom the Magic prefer? They traded the only good player they've drafted since Howard for half a year of Ibaka. They have coaches trying to quit on them after just a year. Next you're going to want us to ask Vivek to consult on roster moves.

[duncan2k5]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2018/on-off/

There's your context. Simmons' numbers are worse than any other rotation player on the team. That means that no, it's not because he's on a bad team. He's making that bad team worse when he's on the floor.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2018.html

His impact stats are much worse than most of his teammates. Who cares whom the Magic prefer? They traded the only good player they've drafted since Howard for half a year of Ibaka. They have coaches trying to quit on them after just a year. Next you're going to want us to ask Vivek to consult on roster moves.

I'm talking about the magic fans... The magic fans love Simmons... Over Fournier at that...

[duncan2k5]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2018/on-off/

There's your context. Simmons' numbers are worse than any other rotation player on the team. That means that no, it's not because he's on a bad team. He's making that bad team worse when he's on the floor.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2018.html

His impact stats are much worse than most of his teammates. Who cares whom the Magic prefer? They traded the only good player they've drafted since Howard for half a year of Ibaka. They have coaches trying to quit on them after just a year. Next you're going to want us to ask Vivek to consult on roster moves.

You really know nothing, John... Last year Simmons had a better vorp than Parker (vorp takes into account playing time, while bpm doesn't)... Aldridge had a worse obpm than patty mills... By a significant amount at that... But continue to use stats without content to justify why Simmons doesn't deserve to be on the Spurs bench... You guys are the same idiots that said Brandon Paul was better...

[cd98]

Who cares? we got Kawhi.

[Chinook]

You really know nothing, John... Last year Simmons had a better vorp than Parker (vorp takes into account playing time, while bpm doesn't)... Aldridge had a worse obpm than patty mills... By a significant amount at that... But continue to use stats without content to justify why Simmons doesn't deserve to be on the Spurs bench... You guys are the same idiots that said Brandon Paul was better...

Simmons would have been useful after Kyle got hurt, I'll give you that. However:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Brandon+Paul&player_id1_select=Brandon+Paul&y1=2018&player_id1=paulbr01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id2_select=Jonathon+Simmons&y2=2016&player_id2=simmojo02&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id3_select=Jonathon+Simmons&y3=2017&player_id3=simmojo02&idx=players&player_id4_hint=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id4_select=Jonathon+Simmons&y4=2018&player_id4=simmojo02&idx=players


https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Brandon+Paul&player_id1_select=Brandon+Paul&player_id1=paulbr01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id2_select=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id2=simmojo02&y2=2016&player_id3_hint=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id3_select=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id3=simmojo02&y3=2017

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Brandon+Paul&player_id1_select=Brandon+Paul&player_id1=paulbr01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id2_select=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id2=simmojo02&y2=2016

Paul is still playing at least as good as Simmons is. If you're looking at Paul and going "That guy's a scrub," well...

[DAF86]

33 minutes 6 pts on 2-9 shooting. His numbers are finally catching up to his accostumed team worst +/-, which in this case was -22.

[sananspursfan21]

You guys think his family’s allowed on the plane?

[DAF86]

You guys think his family’s allowed on the plane?

Considering he has like 20 kids, I doubt it.

[SAGirl]

You guys think his family’s allowed on the plane?
:lol
this was savage. Made me laugh.

[sananspursfan21]

Considering he has like 20 kids, I doubt it.
:downspin:

[sananspursfan21]

:lol
this was savage. Made me laugh.

Somebodys been appreciating my humor!!

[TheGreatYacht]

Ah, FAP finally decides to bump the thread after he had a string of games averaging 22/6/5 on good shooting percentage :lol

Spent all summer dick riding him and then got embarrassed once games started being played. Even had to rely on nothing but +/- knowing he's in a mediocre team. Sad!

[tonight...you]

Ah, FAP finally decides to bump the thread after he had a string of games averaging 22/6/5 on good shooting percentage :lol

Spent all summer dick riding him and then got embarrassed once games started being played. Even had to rely on nothing but +/- knowing he's in a mediocre team. Sad!
More like a shitty team, because if 11-21 is mediocre...

[TimDunkem]

He'd be the best guard on this team, tbh.

[tonight...you]

He'd be the best guard on this team, tbh.
No he wouldn't, because Pop wouldn't let him open up his game enough to be so. Which was his main complaint and one of the reasons why he left.
Pop is a dual-edged sword.
He'll do things to help the team win at an extraordinary clip, but also mishandle many things along the way to push his team even further.

[DAF86]

Ah, FAP finally decides to bump the thread after he had a string of games averaging 22/6/5 on good shooting percentage :lol

Spent all summer dick riding him and then got embarrassed once games started being played. Even had to rely on nothing but +/- knowing he's in a mediocre team. Sad!

If he's in such a bad team and his teammates are so shitty it shouldn't be so hard for Simmons to not post the worst +/- of the entire team game after game, tbh. :lol

[tonight...you]

If he's in such a bad team and his teammates are so shitty it shouldn't be so hard for Simmons to not post the worst +/- of the entire team game after game, tbh. :lol
It's a mystery, wrapped inside of an enigma, surrounded by a conundrum called: Playing Losing Basketball.
Nobody will ever figure it out, tbh.

[TimDunkem]

No he wouldn't, because Pop wouldn't let him open up his game enough to be so. Which was his main complaint and one of the reasons why he left.
Pop is a dual-edged sword.
He'll do things to help the team win at an extraordinary clip, but also mishandle many things along the way to push his team even further.
I'm with you on that, tbh.

[tonight...you]

I'm with you on that, tbh.
But you disagree with the rest?

[duncan2k5]

Ah, FAP finally decides to bump the thread after he had a string of games averaging 22/6/5 on good shooting percentage :lol

Spent all summer dick riding him and then got embarrassed once games started being played. Even had to rely on nothing but +/- knowing he's in a mediocre team. Sad!

[duncan2k5]

No he wouldn't, because Pop wouldn't let him open up his game enough to be so. Which was his main complaint and one of the reasons why he left.
Pop is a dual-edged sword.
He'll do things to help the team win at an extraordinary clip, but also mishandle many things along the way to push his team even further.

[duncan2k5]

If he's in such a bad team and his teammates are so shitty it shouldn't be so hard for Simmons to not post the worst +/- of the entire team game after game, tbh. :lol

i dont think you understand how plus/minus works...

[duncan2k5]

If he's in such a bad team and his teammates are so shitty it shouldn't be so hard for Simmons to not post the worst +/- of the entire team game after game, tbh. :lol

i dont think you understand how plus/minus works...

[DAF86]

i dont think you understand how plus/minus works...

I don't think you understand that guys on the Magic playing as much or more than Simmons don't get as bad as +/- stats.

[dabom]

Production and health are also important in evaluating a player.

[DAF86]

After a fluke start to the season, Simmons 3pt shooting has come back down to Earth and is now at 31%.

And his metrics are now the worst of his career. OBPM: -1.3 / DBPM: - 2.0 / BPM: -3.2 / VORP: -0.3

Nothing to see here, Simmons proving to be the mediocre player all smart posters in here thought he was.

[Play Boban]

After a fluke start to the season, Simmons 3pt shooting has come back down to Earth and is now at 31%.

And his metrics are now the worst of his career. OBPM: -1.3 / DBPM: - 2.0 / BPM: -3.2 / VORP: -0.3

Nothing to see here, Simmons proving to be the mediocre player all smart posters in here thought he was.

:lol Dude's a scrub getting burn on a terrible team tbh. :lol

[Gagnrath]

:lol Dude's a scrub getting burn on a terrible team tbh. :lol

I am not going to say he's a great player or even a much above NBA average one but a lot of the time a guy playing a big role on a shitty team can be a more efficient more impactful player used wisely on a better team with better parts plans and leadership around them. Alot also depends on the player and how willing and smart enough they are to fit into the better teams role for them. Simmons is a player that is athletically very good but nneds to develop a bit more on his timing and control. However he didn't get drafted and really needed to cash in on his good play-off performance from last year. The Spurs couldn't offer him the contact he wanted that fit where he was in life. The magic did. I don't blame him, I think that after his three years with the magic he will get a final two year contract with another team where he is a backup role player. If he had been a few years younger when he came to the Spurs we would have kept him and he would have developed more here and ended up with a better career but the chips just didn't fall the way everyone would have hoped for Mr. Simmons.

[DAF86]

I am not going to say he's a great player or even a much above NBA average one but a lot of the time a guy playing a big role on a shitty team can be a more efficient more impactful player used wisely on a better team with better parts plans and leadership around them. Alot also depends on the player and how willing and smart enough they are to fit into the better teams role for them. Simmons is a player that is athletically very good but nneds to develop a bit more on his timing and control. However he didn't get drafted and really needed to cash in on his good play-off performance from last year. The Spurs couldn't offer him the contact he wanted that fit where he was in life. The magic did. I don't blame him, I think that after his three years with the magic he will get a final two year contract with another team where he is a backup role player. If he had been a few years younger when he came to the Spurs we would have kept him and he would have developed more here and ended up with a better career but the chips just didn't fall the way everyone would have hoped for Mr. Simmons.

Well, that's something Simmons didn't prove to be on his two years here. It's also something he wasn't willing to be, considering his comments about wanting a bigger role and what not.

[Gagnrath]

He was decent in limited playing time last year as a second year player. Then had a good play-off; issue is he was a late 20s guy who has some mental maturity to gain no a huge amount of upside and mostly physicality making him special. From his point of view he was needing a major pay increase to stay because honestly at his age he was only going to see 1 maybe 2 top tier role-player contracts. From the Spurs point of view he was an alright slightly head strong player that was somewhat of a fan favorite but fairly replaceable. The magic offered what he wanted cash wise the Spurs didn't in two years he will have the chance to try again as long as he remains healthy and has a good attitude. The attitude issue is what got Neal in trouble. Choo choo. Otherwise Neal and Mills are literally the exact same player.