Tim Duncan won FOUR championships without another all-NBA teammate

[hitmantb]

http://www.nba.com/history/all-nba-teams/

The only player, other than Larry Bird, to do it more than once!

Larry Bird did it twice, but played in an era without a third team all-NBA award, his teammates would have almost certainly made third team.

Seriously, it annoys me to see LeBron ranked ahead of Duncan by every media, to see Tim's career average being a run-of-the-mill 19 and 11 because he does so many things that don't show up on stats (set picks, team defense), to see him portrayed as a system player when he had the highest PER in playoff history in 03 and won so many titles without another all-NBA player.

It unfortunately also part of the reason why Spurs never repeated, just not enough raw talents compared to teams that do.

[TheGreatYacht]

PATFO failed him

[apalisoc_9]

Its all pop and RC :cry

[TheGreatYacht]

Thank god Sam Presti gave us Parker before he left.

Duncan would've played his career with a bunch of Terry Porters, Elsons, Mohammeds, Nesterovics, Alex Garcias, Udokas, Shane Heals, and Jason Harts

[Thomas82]

PATFO failed him

Yes they did in a lot of ways.

[dbreiden83080]

And Lebron has team mates running for the hills. Jordan managed to keep Pippen happy enough to stay and win 6 chips. After 3 straight finals and 1 chip, Kyrie apparently hates him and wants the hell away from him right now..

[Mr. Body]

Parker and Ginobili were underrated until a bit later.

[skulls138]

Duncan is easily better than Lebron...EASILY! Duncan won 5 in the era of Kobe, Shaq and Jackson. Thats why he can be considered great without lessening what Manu and Parker did. Without the Lakers wed be gunning for Russells record. Lebron had no competition like that except us and....well...he aint shit to us.

[dbreiden83080]

Parker and Ginobili were underrated until a bit later.

Manu was really good and appreciated fully by 2005. He had a great playoffs and finals. Parker was actually bad in 2003 and 2005 finals. Made up for it in 2007.

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan is easily better than Lebron...EASILY! Duncan won 5 in the era of Kobe, Shaq and Jackson. Thats why he can be considered great without lessening what Manu and Parker did. Without the Lakers wed be gunning for Russells record. Lebron had no competition like that except us and....well...he aint shit to us.

Lebron is more skilled and has really no equal in versatility. But there is too much bullshit around Lebron centered around his EGO. I think his mates gets sick of the Lebron James show/circus. When they win he gets all the credit anyway. People don't want to play with him as much as years ago.. I think Kyrie does not want to be held hostage by Lebron bailing again at end of the season..

[SpurPadre]

1: Manu and TP have always been underrated but especially in their primes
2: If Da Admiral had TD's supporting cast for most of his career, he'd have 5 Championships too

[james evans]

And Lebron has team mates running for the hills. Jordan managed to keep Pippen happy enough to stay and win 6 chips. After 3 straight finals and 1 chip, Kyrie apparently hates him and wants the hell away from him right now..
Jordan didn't keep Pippen happy. Pippen was locked in a bullshit contract and they wouldn't trade him haha

[skulls138]

Lebron is more skilled and has really no equal in versatility. But there is too much bullshit around Lebron centered around his EGO. I think his mates gets sick of the Lebron James show/circus. When they win he gets all the credit anyway. People don't want to play with him as much as years ago.. I think Kyrie does not want to be held hostage by Lebron bailing again at end of the season..Hes versatile in everything but his job which as a SF is to shoot and post up, not be Magic Johnson. Except in crunch time, Magics going to take the shot not pass it to an open 3 point shot giving the pressure to the other guy masked as the "right basketball play" so LJ can say hes not at fault. Other than that I agree with your post, hes got a manipulative side, trying to control things.

[Crazymaddopeyo]

Go back and watch 2007 Manu and TP, it's crazy how good they were and really never considered stars because they didn't act like nba stars do.

[Chillen]

So Durant thinks he is mr. bigshot with that ring now, but Tim Duncan did it the hard way sure he had some talent but nothing even close to what the Warriors or LeBron has had. Duncan, Manu, Parker the best big 3 ever and Pop is one of the greatest coaches ever but still Duncan did it the hard way.

Duncan is a bad mofo, and a real NBA champion!!!

[Spurtacular]

http://www.nba.com/history/all-nba-teams/

The only player, other than Larry Bird, to do it more than once!

Larry Bird did it twice, but played in an era without a third team all-NBA award, his teammates would have almost certainly made third team.

Seriously, it annoys me to see LeBron ranked ahead of Duncan by every media, to see Tim's career average being a run-of-the-mill 19 and 11 because he does so many things that don't show up on stats (set picks, team defense), to see him portrayed as a system player when he had the highest PER in playoff history in 03 and won so many titles without another all-NBA player.

It unfortunately also part of the reason why Spurs never repeated, just not enough raw talents compared to teams that do.

Larry Bird was excited to play with Len Bias. He said it was the first time he was ever going to play with a great athlete.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Thank god Sam Presti gave us Parker before he left.

Duncan would've played his career with a bunch of Terry Porters, Elsons, Mohammeds, Nesterovics, Alex Garcias, Udokas, Shane Heals, and Jason Harts

I got to meat Devin Brown and Jason Hart in person at the age of 10. Pretty cool dudes

[duncan2k5]

Ppl who think LeBron is better than Duncan shouldn't be commenting on basketball, tbh...

[Maddog]

Another way of looking at this-

How many teams have won a NBA championship without more than one lottery pick in their prime. That is- going back in even into the 80s how many title teams have not had multiple lottery picks under the age of say 34?
Even Birds team had multiple top 10 picks (Parish, McHale).

[Ice009]

Ppl who think LeBron is better than Duncan shouldn't be commenting on basketball, tbh...

That's been my opinion all along. Tim is in my top 5 NBA players of all time. Lebron, I'd put 6-10 range, or if he is in the top 5, he's behind wherever TD is.

[skulls138]

So Durant thinks he is mr. bigshot with that ring now, but Tim Duncan did it the hard way sure he had some talent but nothing even close to what the Warriors or LeBron has had. Duncan, Manu, Parker the best big 3 ever and Pop is one of the greatest coaches ever but still Duncan did it the hard way.

Duncan is a bad mofo, and a real NBA champion!!!I wouldnt say LJ had great help, I would say he didnt have to compete against anybody that difficult, especially in his conference. He had Wade, whose game i like way more BTW, but he wasnt near his prime. Ill also say as good as he was as a passer, he didnt make his teammates better because he was too passive when they needed him too score. It doesnt instill confidence.

[cjw]

Thank god Sam Presti gave us Parker before he left.

Duncan would've played his career with a bunch of Terry Porters, Elsons, Mohammeds, Nesterovics, Alex Garcias, Udokas, Shane Heals, and Jason Harts

It ain't easy to build a team when you're picking in the high 20s every year, with the one exception being James Anderson who got hurt before we could see what he was. Most of the other recent title teams got their with signing a HOF FA (early 2000s Lakers and the Heatles), lots of early round draft picks (Warriors), both of those (Cavs). When you have a player of Duncan's caliber, it's impossible to tank.

[TheGreatYacht]

It ain't easy to build a team when you're picking in the high 20s every year, with the one exception being James Anderson who got hurt before we could see what he was. Most of the other recent title teams got their with signing a HOF FA (early 2000s Lakers and the Heatles), lots of early round draft picks (Warriors), both of those (Cavs). When you have a player of Duncan's caliber, it's impossible to tank.
Drafting isn't the only way to acquire talent. I'm specifically criticizing Buford for being the worst deal closer of all time. All his big time free agents have been busts and then to make it worse the idiot gives them huge extensions

[Galileo]

http://www.nba.com/history/all-nba-teams/

The only player, other than Larry Bird, to do it more than once!

Larry Bird did it twice, but played in an era without a third team all-NBA award, his teammates would have almost certainly made third team.

Seriously, it annoys me to see LeBron ranked ahead of Duncan by every media, to see Tim's career average being a run-of-the-mill 19 and 11 because he does so many things that don't show up on stats (set picks, team defense), to see him portrayed as a system player when he had the highest PER in playoff history in 03 and won so many titles without another all-NBA player.

It unfortunately also part of the reason why Spurs never repeated, just not enough raw talents compared to teams that do.

The weak Eastern Conference has inflated Lebron's playoff success, strong West has contracted Duncan!
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268535

[Spurtacular]

Wasn't even sure if Bird was All-NBA or not in 81 when they won. He was All-NBA 1st team that year. He was All-NBA 1st team his rookie year too.

[Spurtacular]

Wasn't even sure if Bird was All-NBA or not in 81 when they won. He was All-NBA 1st team that year. He was All-NBA 1st team his rookie year too.

Interestingly, Bird was All-NBA 1st team that year and Earvin Johnson was not All-NBA 1st or 2nd team. The Bird-Magic pairing was marketing. Bird was definitely the superior player.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

2: If Da Admiral had TD's supporting cast for most of his career, he'd have 5 Championships too


True. Perhaps not 5, but multiple Spurs/Bulls Finals would have been epic stuff. David's best team was probably his rookie season. The FO surrounded him with crap after that.

[SpursforSix]

Another way of looking at this-

How many teams have won a NBA championship without more than one lottery pick in their prime. That is- going back in even into the 80s how many title teams have not had multiple lottery picks under the age of say 34?
Even Birds team had multiple top 10 picks (Parish, McHale).

I get what you're saying. But it's not rare for a team to have multiple lottery pics under 34. If you assume that the average for a lottery pick is around 20, then that's 14 years of lotteries with 14 players in each.
It's really just a matter of who pans out combined with low draft players/undrafted players.

But I agree that most of the champions had multiple lottery picks that became stars. IMO, the Pistons did the most with the least. Even though they had Billups and Wallace who were lottery picks (I think). They weren't like Duncan, Shaq, Lebron.

[Spurtacular]

True. Perhaps not 5, but multiple Spurs/Bulls Finals would have been epic stuff. David's best team was probably his rookie season. The FO surrounded him with crap after that.

TD was a more consistent offensive force than D-Rob, imo. D-Rob didn't have a goto move(s) that he could consistently use in crunch time. He was nowhere as good at making the pass out of the double team as TD either. If I had to choose one of the two to build a team around, it would be TD in a heartbeat.

[gospursgojas]

Would have had more if not for the Keith Bogans, Roger Mason Jr, Kurt Thomas years.

[Phenomanul]

TD was a more consistent offensive force than D-Rob, imo. D-Rob didn't have a goto move(s) that he could consistently use in crunch time. He was nowhere as good at making the pass out of the double team as TD either. If I had to choose one of the two to build a team around, it would be TD in a heartbeat.

It's a drastically different proposition if you are in a double team and facing the dilemma of passing it out to a Manu Ginobili, Robert Horry, Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Brent Barry, Steve Kerr, Stephen Jackson, Mario Elie, Marco Bellinelli, Danny Green, Gary Neal or ummmm the likes of Vinny Del Negro, and Doc Rivers. Heck, even Matt Bonner was a more dependable shooter than what David had available.

David didn't have the luxury of having good deep squads that could contend for titles. Duncan did for most of his career (minus perhaps two seasons).

[Spurtacular]

It's a drastically different proposition if you are in a double team and facing the dilemma of passing it out to a Manu Ginobili, Robert Horry, Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Brent Barry, Steve Kerr, Stephen Jackson, Mario Elie, Marco Bellinelli, Danny Green, Gary Neal or ummmm the likes of Vinny Del Negro, and Doc Rivers. Heck, even Matt Bonner was a more dependable shooter than what David had available.

David didn't have the luxury of having good deep squads that could contend for titles. Duncan did for most of his career (minus perhaps two seasons).

Not going to argue with that. But still, I found DR's offensive game to be erratic and TD's to be quite refined. I loved watching TD operate going back to Wake Forest. The thin DR was going to get pushed off his block or get the ball at the elbow as he relied on athleticism. TD was like Larry Bird, he was the master of the half inch. All types of moves and options in the post; so smooth.

[JFK]

Drafting isn't the only way to acquire talent. I'm specifically criticizing Buford for being the worst deal closer of all time. All his big time free agents have been busts and then to make it worse the idiot gives them huge extensions

Its as if they're not even trying. Like you said before, really how much of the early success was because of Presti? I see Presti trying at least in the shit hole that is Oklahoma City.

Really what do they have to hang their hat on? Kawhi was not a find, he kind of fell into their laps and for different reasons. Sun shining on a dog's ass every once in a while?

[TheGreatYacht]

Its as if they're not even trying. Like you said before, really how much of the early success was because of Presti? I see Presti trying at least in the shit hole that is Oklahoma City.

Really what do they have to hang their hat on? Kawhi was not a find, he kind of fell into their laps and for different reasons. Sun shining on a dog's ass every once in a while?
Great post. You should post more often, tbh...

[apalisoc_9]

Great post. You should post more often, tbh...

Sam Presti and Sean Marks
.The Real MVP

[skulls138]

Parker, Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Horry, Danny Ferry, Kerr, Oberto. What do you mean Kawhi fell into their laps? No one knew he was going to do what he did and Bird, the GM of the year, traded him for George Hill

[TheGreatYacht]

Sam Presti and Sean Marks
.The Real MVP
Truth bomb. Drunkford can't draft a franchise player with a #1 pick if his life depended on it.

Wanted Valenciunas over Kawhi. Drafting Jean-Charles, Fathead, Milutninov, Murray, Fathead Jr over the last 5 years.... embarrassing.

Giving Dick Jefferson, Lamarsha Aldridge, Pau Gasol, Pity Mills, TOSB Parker & Ginobili horrendous contracts....

[skulls138]

Parker, Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Horry, Danny Ferry, Kerr, Oberto. What do you mean Kawhi fell into their laps? No one knew he was going to do what he did and Bird, the GM of the year, traded him for George HillSam Presti was with Spurs during those years.

[skulls138]

Sam Presti was with Spurs during those years.Oh.

[Chinook]

Oh.


Oh.

[dbreiden83080]

Jordan didn't keep Pippen happy. Pippen was locked in a bullshit contract and they wouldn't trade him haha

Well Pippen wanted to win. He wanted to win even after winning 3 titles. So much so he worked on Jordan to come back in 1995. Kyrie has 1 ring and 3 finals appearances, and he is saying "Fuck it I'm out"..

[YGWHI]

Manu was really good and appreciated fully by 2005. He had a great playoffs and finals. Parker was actually bad in 2003 and 2005 finals. Made up for it in 2007.

Manu was appreciated but not enough by the media on those days. He had a great regular season, he played the All Star Game and should have made an All NBA team in 2005 but he was ignored like Parker was in 2007.

Tim playing with prime Manu and Parker was like to play along with a great Harden (Manu) and a way better version of Irving (Parker)

The fact that two players of the Big3 were snubbed says more about how stupid have been the media than about the talent of Tim's supporting cast

[dbreiden83080]

Manu was appreciated but not enough by the media on those days. He had a great regular season, he played the All Star Game and should have made an All NBA team in 2005 but he was ignored like Parker was in 2007.

Tim playing with prime Manu and Parker was like to play along with a great Harden (Manu) and a way better version of Irving (Parker)

The fact that two players of the Big3 were snubbed says more about how stupid have been the media than about the talent of Tim's supporting cast

If Tony and Manu never play in SA neither make the hall. With Tim and thanks to him they both will make it..

[YGWHI]

If Tony and Manu never play in SA neither make the hall. With Tim and thanks to him they both will make it..

They wouldn't have won 5 rings on other team without Tim but I doubt that Tim would have 5 without those two guys. 1 or 2? Sure. But 5?? No way

Like it or not they were a BIG THREE for some reason after 2004

[dbreiden83080]

They wouldn't have won 5 rings on other team without Tim but I doubt that Tim would have 5 without those two guys. 1 or 2? Sure. But 5?? No way

Other good players would have been put around Tim. A player of that caliber has a big window to build around.. Spurs in 2003 were not even that good. And Tim dragged them a title, beating prime Shaq/Kobe Lakers..

[YGWHI]

Other good players would have been put around Tim. A player of that caliber has a big window to build around.. Spurs in 2003 were not even that good. And Tim dragged them a title, beating prime Shaq/Kobe Lakers..

-Tim was the greatest PF to ever play the game.

-After 2004 the Spurs AND Tim were so lucky to have two top guards playing in SA

-Do you think is so easy to build around a star in a small market like SA with Spurs refusing to pay luxury tax?

Ask MVP DRob how easy is to find great players to surround a Spurs franchise player without money. I wonder how mediocre would have looked Tim's supporting cast if the Spurs would have been forced to look for players in FA's/trades without spending enough money instead of drafting Manu/Parker.

[Clipper Nation]

Thank god Sam Presti gave us Parker before he left.

Duncan would've played his career with a bunch of Terry Porters, Elsons, Mohammeds, Nesterovics, Alex Garcias, Udokas, Shane Heals, and Jason Harts
And the Spurs would have at least three more rings.

[skulls138]

They wouldn't have won 5 rings on other team without Tim but I doubt that Tim would have 5 without those two guys. 1 or 2? Sure. But 5?? No way

Like it or not they were a BIG THREE for some reason after 2004As I said before, you take the Lakers out of the equasion, a team BTW that mightve been better than the Bulls, and Spurs are past the Bulls in rings, this is who the big three are. You have to compare eras not just ring counts when comparing and contrasting teams and players.

[skulls138]

And the Spurs would have at least three more rings.Like you know anything about rings, HAH!

[SASdynasty!]

Tony only won one championship without another All-NBA player (2014).

Tim & Tony each won one championship without another all-star:

Duncan: 2003
Parker: 2014

[Maddog]

I get what you're saying. But it's not rare for a team to have multiple lottery pics under 34. If you assume that the average for a lottery pick is around 20, then that's 14 years of lotteries with 14 players in each.
It's really just a matter of who pans out combined with low draft players/undrafted players.

But I agree that most of the champions had multiple lottery picks that became stars. IMO, the Pistons did the most with the least. Even though they had Billups and Wallace who were lottery picks (I think). They weren't like Duncan, Shaq, Lebron.

The 04 and 05 Pistons had at least 4 lottery picks (top 10) under 34. Hamilton, Billups, Wallace and the Beno destroyer Hunter. In fact the 2104 Spurs team was probably the only title team not to have a single lottery pick in their prime. Despite the tone on this board- the Spurs FO has done a remarkable job of keeping this team in title contention.
Both the Cavs and Dubs have had huge number of loerry picks leading up to their current teams and ownership that is able to go way over the cap.

[TheGreatYacht]

Tony only won one championship without another All-NBA player (2014).

Tim & Tony each won one championship without another all-star:

Duncan: 2003
Parker: 2014
The Big 2

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Not going to argue with that. But still, I found DR's offensive game to be erratic and TD's to be quite refined. I loved watching TD operate going back to Wake Forest. The thin DR was going to get pushed off his block or get the ball at the elbow as he relied on athleticism. TD was like Larry Bird, he was the master of the half inch. All types of moves and options in the post; so smooth.

Tim might be the guy to have built a team around regardless of who you compare him to. For all the intangibles he brought to the Spurs, anyone who argues against him being a top 5 all-time great are out of their minds.

But DRob would have been a force in today's NBA, not as multi-dimensional as Duncan, but unstoppable by today's NBA talent. In this era of small-ball, where guys live at the line if someone breathes on them, DRob would have probably averaged double digits on free throws alone. His speed and length would have given him a swat fest on the defensive side of the ball. Prime David would probably average 40 and 18, with 5 blocks per game without trying too hard. He had to grind it out in the last great era for big centers when he was playing. Olajuwan, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, etc., and every team had some mountain in the paint to try to slow the elite centers down. In today's game there'd be no one to stop him.

[Phenomanul]

Tim might be the guy to have built a team around regardless of who you compare him to. For all the intangibles he brought to the Spurs, anyone who argues against him being a top 5 all-time great are out of their minds.

But DRob would have been a force in today's NBA, not as multi-dimensional as Duncan, but unstoppable by today's NBA talent. In this era of small-ball, where guys live at the line if someone breathes on them, DRob would have probably averaged double digits on free throws alone. His speed and length would have given him a swat fest on the defensive side of the ball. Prime David would probably average 40 and 18, with 5 blocks per game without trying too hard. He had to grind it out in the last great era for big centers when he was playing. Olajuwan, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, etc., and every team had some mountain in the paint to try to slow the elite centers down. In today's game there'd be no one to stop him.

Most people on this board never saw Robinson playing in his prime... sadly.

[Spurtacular]

Tim might be the guy to have built a team around regardless of who you compare him to. For all the intangibles he brought to the Spurs, anyone who argues against him being a top 5 all-time great are out of their minds.

But DRob would have been a force in today's NBA, not as multi-dimensional as Duncan, but unstoppable by today's NBA talent. In this era of small-ball, where guys live at the line if someone breathes on them, DRob would have probably averaged double digits on free throws alone. His speed and length would have given him a swat fest on the defensive side of the ball. Prime David would probably average 40 and 18, with 5 blocks per game without trying too hard. He had to grind it out in the last great era for big centers when he was playing. Olajuwan, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, etc., and every team had some mountain in the paint to try to slow the elite centers down. In today's game there'd be no one to stop him.

Hmmm. D-Rob would arguably have bigger gains than TD in this small ball era. Fair argument.

[ajh18]

Yeah saying that TD is the guy you build around isn't much of a leap. You're basically saying you'll take a guy who will be the best in the league for 5 years or so, capable of winning a title basically on his own, and then will be a top 3-5 big man for another 14 years. Who else gives you that? No drama or diva-behavior (Shaq, Lebron, Kobe) or laziness (Shaq), or off-court stuff (Barkley, Jordan) or hated by teammates for their ego (Kobe, Jordan), or injury-shortened careers (Bird, Magic, Robinson). Who is left? Kareem maybe. That's his only peer.

All that said, I'd pay good money to see DRob in today's NBA, where he's pretty much the only traditional center I've ever seen with the speed and athleticism to keep up with today's style and also dominate it. Or to have Manu throwing him alley oops in the 90s. In different circumstances David could and should have been remembered as superior to Shaq, just as dominant in a different way but a much better defender. Agree that he'd be in the 30s scoring with mid-teens rebounds and close to 5 blocks today. He was much better than a guy like Anthony Davis at pretty much everything. At least he went out a champ. Well-deserved, my favorite player ever.

[TheDoctor]

...David didn't have the luxury of having good deep squads that could contend for titles...

You know nothing Phenomaul.

#TripleThreat
https://img0.etsystatic.com/177/0/12934328/il_340x270.1079271032_98wm.jpg











































:lol

[TheDoctor]

Yeah saying that TD is the guy you build around isn't much of a leap. You're basically saying you'll take a guy who will be the best in the league for 5 years or so, capable of winning a title basically on his own, and then will be a top 3-5 big man for another 14 years. Who else gives you that? No drama or diva-behavior (Shaq, Lebron, Kobe) or laziness (Shaq), or off-court stuff (Barkley, Jordan) or hated by teammates for their ego (Kobe, Jordan), or injury-shortened careers (Bird, Magic, Robinson). Who is left? Kareem maybe. That's his only peer.

All that said, I'd pay good money to see DRob in today's NBA, where he's pretty much the only traditional center I've ever seen with the speed and athleticism to keep up with today's style and also dominate it. Or to have Manu throwing him alley oops in the 90s. In different circumstances David could and should have been remembered as superior to Shaq, just as dominant in a different way but a much better defender. Agree that he'd be in the 30s scoring with mid-teens rebounds and close to 5 blocks today. He was much better than a guy like Anthony Davis at pretty much everything. At least he went out a champ. Well-deserved, my favorite player ever.

Fucking greatness tbh.

[ElNono]

Tony only won one championship without another All-NBA player (2014).

Tim & Tony each won one championship without another all-star:

Duncan: 2003
Parker: 2014

Kawhi was already NBA All-Defensive team in 2014, FWIW...

[Spurtacular]

Tony only won one championship without another All-NBA player (2014).

Tim & Tony each won one championship without another all-star:

Duncan: 2003
Parker: 2014

:lol

TP wasn't even the best player on the 14 Spurs.

[Phenomanul]

You know nothing Phenomaul.

#TripleThreat
https://img0.etsystatic.com/177/0/12934328/il_340x270.1079271032_98wm.jpg




:lol

Don't see the blue font... But I suppose you know how many years Terry Cummings was actually healthy before he blew his knee? TBH the best teams Robinson had was early on in his career when he had healthy Rod Strickland / Cummings / Elliott by his side - unfortunately that's about as deep as those teams went (Willie Anderson had his best year as a rookie and then progressively worsened every year)... they took the Blazers to 7 games before Strickland inexplicably coughed up the ball in the waning seconds of Game 7 and Elliott missed a crucial 4th quarter free throw. They hit a Golden State team that was clicking on all cylinders (with a big three of Chris Mullin / Mitch Richmond / Tim Hardaway) but Larry Brown was stubborn and failed to make the right adjustments to beat them. After that Robinson was surrounded by incomplete and severely limited squads. Give him a prime Manu and Parker and they would've gotten past both of those squads. TBH Jordan's Bulls would've been grossly outmatched inside.

[TheDoctor]

Don't see the blue font... But I suppose you know how many years Terry Cummings was actually healthy before he blew his knee? TBH the best teams Robinson had was early on in his career when he had healthy Rod Strickland / Cummings / Elliott by his side - unfortunately that's about as deep as those teams went (Willie Anderson had his best year as a rookie and then progressively worsened every year)... they took the Blazers to 7 games before Strickland inexplicably coughed up the ball in the waning seconds of Game 7 and Elliott missed a crucial 4th quarter free throw. They hit a Golden State team that was clicking on all cylinders (with a big three of Chris Mullin / Mitch Richmond / Tim Hardaway) but Larry Brown was stubborn and failed to make the right adjustments to beat them. After that Robinson was surrounded by incomplete and severely limited squads. Give him a prime Manu and Parker and they would've gotten past both of those squads. TBH Jordan's Bulls would've been grossly outmatched inside.

I thought the long waited smiley and hashtag implied sarcasm too :downspin:

Anyway, Triple Threat was sarcasm :tu

[BatManu20]

The title of this thread is factually incorrect. Nonetheless, Timmy the Gawd was and always will be a legend.


888099306531631108

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The title of this thread is factually incorrect. Nonetheless, Timmy the Gawd was and always will be a legend.


888099306531631108

The caps that year were the best championship hats, too. Far better than those white abominations in '14.

[TheDoctor]

The caps that year were the best championship hats, too. Far better than those white abominations in '14.
I prefer flat bills tho. But yeah, those colours (2003) work better.

[SASdynasty!]

:lol

TP wasn't even the best player on the 14 Spurs.
2014 All Stars: Tony Parker
2014 All-NBA: Tony Parker
2014 RS Leading Scorer: Tony Parker
2014 RS Leading Assists: Tony Parker
2014 Playoff Leading Scorer: Tony Parker
2014 Playoff Leading Assists: Tony Parker
2014 Finals Leading Scorer: Tony Parker

"Not the best player" lol

[Spurtacular]

2014 All Stars: Tony Parker
2014 All-NBA: Tony Parker
2014 RS Leading Scorer: Tony Parker
2014 RS Leading Assists: Tony Parker
2014 Playoff Leading Scorer: Tony Parker
2014 Playoff Leading Assists: Tony Parker
2014 Finals Leading Scorer: Tony Parker

"Not the best player" lol

So in a vacuum, you'd have got rid of TD or Kawhi instead of TP in 14 if you had to get rid of one?

[SASdynasty!]

So in a vacuum, you'd have got rid of TD or Kawhi instead of TP in 14 if you had to get rid of one?
Absolutely. Parker had been carrying that team for the last 3 years at that point. We don't win a chip without any of those 3, but you don't do much of anything with an aged Duncan and with Kawhi's disappearing acts. Without Parker, that team wouldn't have got out of the first round. Thankfully he carried them in their only elimination game that year.

[Spurtacular]

Absolutely. Parker had been carrying that team for the last 3 years at that point. We don't win a chip without any of those 3, but you don't do much of anything with an aged Duncan and with Kawhi's disappearing acts. Without Parker, that team wouldn't have got out of the first round. Thankfully he carried them in their only elimination game that year.

That's just stupid. TD and Kawhi were defensive stalwarts. TP was a one-dimensional player on a team with plenty of offensive weapons. The mere fact that I could argue that Patty would've been a better starter in 14 than Parker should tell you how off you are. He certainly was a better closer.

[skulls138]

I didnt know that. Thats awesome. The most underrated pg in the era of pgs

[RD2191]

Absolutely. Parker had been carrying that team for the last 3 years at that point. We don't win a chip without any of those 3, but you don't do much of anything with an aged Duncan and with Kawhi's disappearing acts. Without Parker, that team wouldn't have got out of the first round. Thankfully he carried them in their only elimination game that year.

Crofl. Kill yourself stupid old faggot. Spurs were getting their shit pushed in by 8 seeds before Kawhi got here.

[SASdynasty!]

That's just stupid. TD and Kawhi were defensive stalwarts. TP was a one-dimensional player on a team with plenty of offensive weapons. The mere fact that I could argue that Patty would've been a better starter in 14 than Parker should tell you how off you are. He certainly was a better closer.
Lol, "Patty would have been a better starter."

Here are their PER-36 minutes stats. Keep in mind, Parker is playing against starting unts and Mills is playing against benches:

2014 Regular Season:

Parker: 20.4 / 7.0 on 50%
Mills: 19.5 / 3.5 on 46%

2014 Playoffs:

Parker: 20.0 / 5.6 on 49%
Mills: 17.2 / 3.4 on 45%

So even against benches Patty couldn't put up the same production as Parker, lol. Even Cojo had better per-36 numbers than Mills in the playoffs!

[Spurtacular]

Lol, "Patty would have been a better starter."

Here are their PER-36 minutes stats. Keep in mind, Parker is playing against starting unts and Mills is playing against benches:

2014 Regular Season:

Parker: 20.4 / 7.0 on 50%
Mills: 19.5 / 3.5 on 46%

2014 Playoffs:

Parker: 20.0 / 5.6 on 49%
Mills: 17.2 / 3.4 on 45%

So even against benches Patty couldn't put up the same production as Parker, lol. Even Cojo had better per-36 numbers than Mills in the playoffs!

Dude, your numbers are on my side. Mills with comparable numbers playing on the second team. You've thoroughly lost this argument.

[SASdynasty!]

Dude, your numbers are on my side. Mills with comparable numbers playing on the second team. You've thoroughly lost this argument.
Hahaha, yah less points, half the assists, and worse shooting against backups all while adjusting his minutes to extrapolate what he didn't even do. So giving Mills every possible benefit of the doubt still doesn't get him to Parker's actual numbers.

[Spurtacular]

Hahaha, yah less points, half the assists, and worse shooting against backups all while adjusting his minutes to extrapolate what he didn't even do. So giving Mills every possible benefit of the doubt still doesn't get him to Parker's actual numbers.

Second team defenders are that much worse than starters? No. In many cases, they're better b/c they've been told that's how they're going to get their minutes. And the benefit of starting is playing with more weapons and being focused on less. You can go back to 2014 and find plenty of video of Mills being the Spurs closer deep in games. And stop bragging about assists numbers from Tony Parker of all people. :lol

[DMC]

Regarding Lebron vs Tim - poor comparisons. They played different roles on completely different teams under different circumstances.

Tim didn't come out of HS with a 90m dollar shoe contract, and wouldn't have impacted the game like Lebron did right out of HS. Tim's strength was always his ability to keep an even keel and produce consistent numbers, eye popping numbers in retrospect but seemed invisible at the time because he was just playing the game. Lebron commands the ball and often plays one on one for extended minutes. Neither of these guys are cancers to their teams, and with both of them, their respective teams would be ringless without them (Miami notwithstanding). You cannot say, objectively, that a guy who lead his teams to 7 consecutive finals, two different teams that could not make it without him and went basically tits up after he left, is overrated.

Lebron's issues are related to the fact that the NBA is polluted with guys who chase money early and rings late. So he's fucked both ways. He has young guys wanting a bigger piece of the pie than they deserve, but they could get it on another team without a mega star. Then he has old guys who mailed it in for a decade and now suddenly feel they can contribute. Both need him and both hate him because neither can have what he has. He knows it, his agents know it. He was treated like dogshit by the owner of the Cavs but he returned just the same, only now he's business only. You don't see that weak ass shit he had in Boston prior to him leaving for Miami, there's no trying to prove the haters wrong. He's just pure business.

It's good for the NBA that egos push great players apart, else we'd have this juggernaut situation in GS for 10 fucking years. It's good that smaller players reach for the brass ring and step out on their own. It has nothing to do with Lebron being a dick to anyone, and everything to do with teammates who are not that good wanting bigger contracts. Everyone here knows someone who claims the place they work couldn't run without them, and yet they are small fish. Don't you think role players eventually feel that way? Then think how Uncle Drew feels going from big shot in town to Lebron's +1.

[skulls138]

Timmy won a ring his second year in and never stopped! How is that not as impactful if not more?

As for your second paragraph, thats somewhat true but also he hasnt had a great coach or really good coach. Having said that Timmys just a better team player with better fundamentals. Timmys game is set to WIN rings, while Lebrons game is to get there. The deeper you get into the playoffs, the tighter the noose, the smaller the funnel gets and thats when you need some kind signature shot thats hard to defend and Lebrons is pretty much, blow by you, lay up. Thats easier to defend in the playoffs.

He impressed me most in his last ring. He seemed to find his true niche, which is to completely be a two way player but also let others shine. That may have alot to do with his players but I think it was him too.