ESPN: Capspace hard to come by next season, could see opt ins.

[SAGirl]

Well ESPN is forecasting a chilly free agency next season with a lot of opting in. So much for 2018 as the plan.

Good article as a whole if you are interested: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20143724/nba-nuclear-winter-forecasted-free-agents-summer-2018
(http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20143724/nba-nuclear-winter-forecasted-free-agents-summer-2018)
This summer, only 14 teams entered free agency with cap space, ... only 22 players have been signed with cap space, down from 60 last year.

The early projections for 2018-19: nine teams with cap space, and potentially 10 teams paying luxury tax.



"The real story is the nuclear winter for free agents coming next year," one team executive with authority to make personnel decisions told ESPN. "Teams planned the last two summers for the cap to be much higher. The fact that it went way down from the projections crushed teams."

In particular, they projected the market to be tighter for the NBA's middle class in a star-studded free-agency crop."Free agents will get squeezed," a general manager said.
.."The top guys will always feed first and then the year of the cap spike, there was a lot left for everybody else to feed. Next year, the top players will still get theirs, and then there will be not much left."

Teams that managed their cap with an eye toward the future instead of prioritizing the present could benefit next summer. Rebuilding franchises with cap space are positioned to pounce on a potentially historic free-agency class, taking advantage of a system that will see the majority of teams over the cap, many hovering near the luxury tax or well into it.

The Los Angeles Lakers (http://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/lal/los-angeles-lakers) are the headliners of the group of teams who can aggressively recruit a free-agency class that could include All-NBA-caliber talent such as LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2779/chris-paul), Paul George (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4251/paul-george), Russell Westbrook (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3468/russell-westbrook), DeMarcus Cousins (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4258/demarcus-cousins), DeAndre Jordan (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3442/deandre-jordan) and Isaiah Thomas (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6472/isaiah-thomas). The Lakers are projected to have $30 million in cap space and could create two max slots via trades and/or using the stretch provision.
The Chicago Bulls (http://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bulls) ($50 million projected space), Philadelphia 76ers (http://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-76ers) ($40 million) and Atlanta Hawks (http://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks) ($40 million) are other franchises set up to be aggressive shoppers next summer.

[cutewizard]

What are implications for Spurs, moving forward?

[BatManu20]

LMA opting in confirmed.

[TheDoctor]

Why I see this as an ESPN attempt to control NBA free agency course? These mofos gotta be deep inside in Vegas. Money laundering anyone?

[Hoops Czar]

All the more reason to sign Kyrie and trade LMA.

[sananspursfan21]

LMA opting in confirmed.

Assurance at the Power Forward position :downspin:

[TimDunkem]

In before "well...there wasn't anyone good in that FA class anyway...".

[itzsoweezee]

Lol. If that happens, then this off-season was an even bigger fuckup than I thought.

[south side spur]

Golden State possible 38.5 million tax bill
Houston possible 56.2 million tax bill
Oklahoma City possible 74.5 million tax bill

Yeah these GMs are "light years ahead". Dumbfucks who doubt PATFO. Capela and Thompson are there for the taking these next 2 summers.

[BillMc]

Golden State possible 38.5 million tax bill
Houston possible 56.2 million tax bill
Oklahoma City possible 74.5 million tax bill

Yeah these GMs are "light years ahead". Dumbfucks who doubt PATFO. Capela and Thompson are there for the taking these next 2 summers.
This

[spurs10]

Golden State possible 38.5 million tax bill
Houston possible 56.2 million tax bill
Oklahoma City possible 74.5 million tax bill

Yeah these GMs are "light years ahead". Dumbfucks who doubt PATFO. Capela and Thompson are there for the taking these next 2 summers. Are these numbers representing how much each of these teams is paying in penalties this season? I'm asking because I thought GSW are looking at an almost 200 million payroll.

[tbdog]

Which makes the Gasol deal in particular so worrisome. We had the chance to take a huge opportunity to have good cap space. We could have signed a top dog and possible 2 borderline allstars that had to take a pay cut. Instead we have a 39 year old taking that coin. The best thing could have happen was Gasol opting in. He saved us a massive 1 million this season. 1 fucking million and a blown 2018 agency.

[Spurtacular]

Assurance at the Power Forward position :downspin:

Yea, I still like him even if he did lay a turd against GS.

[TheGreatYacht]

Called it in the offseason thread earlier.


The more I think about, the more I'm starting to believe Aldridge will opt in on that easy $23M :lol

Drunkford's residential ST fleshlights will then say Spurs were all in on 2019 anyways... then after the huge Parker extension to go along the Pau, Mills, and Green extensions those fluffers will change the year to 2023

[YGWHI]

It's funny how the article mentions the cap situation of 3/4 NBA teams but any single word about the Spurs... :rolleyes

[sananspursfan21]

Yea, I still like him even if he did lay a turd against GS.

I still like him as a third or fourth option. And since being in San Antonio he's become an underrated paint defender. Don't hate the guy, just kinda neutral about him being on the team

[Chinook]

I was really glad the SA stayed away from the "new market" deals. But then they went and re-upped guys on big, long-term deals without really having an established star foundation to justify it. I do think that Patty and Pau are better values than Turner, Crabbe, Bazemore and the like. But it's terrible to lock up your cap at a time where cap space could become valuable again.

[Ice009]

I was really glad the SA stayed away from the "new market" deals. But then they went and re-upped guys on big, long-term deals without really having an established star foundation to justify it. I do think that Patty and Pau are better values than Turner, Crabbe, Bazemore and the like. But it's terrible to lock up your cap at a time where cap space could become valuable again.

I had no problem with it if the Spurs didn't want to do any silly deals and overpay for this years' top free agents, but never ever did I image they'd blow 98 million on Gasol and Mills. I am just fucking shocked. I was OK with signing Rudy Gay (who I hope does well and recovers strong from his achilles injury as I also genuinely like the guy) and saving all that cap space for next year. I did not expect the Spurs to blow that much money on two players who were almost useless in the playoffs, though.

[Mr. Body]

Once again the league owners and GMs acted like a bunch of drunken hicks with money for the first time and fucked themselves and everybody else.

[look_at_g_shred]

Maybe it gives teams weary of trading for LMA/Green a bit of security?

[noles1983]

I had no problem with it if the Spurs didn't want to do any silly deals and overpay for this years' top free agents, but never ever did I image they'd blow 98 million on Gasol and Mills. I am just fucking shocked. I was OK with signing Rudy Gay (who I hope does well and recovers strong from his achilles injury as I also genuinely like the guy) and saving all that cap space for next year. I did not expect the Spurs to blow that much money on two players who were almost useless in the playoffs, though.

Seriously those two useless fucks we re-signed are just as bad as any "new market" deals.

[TheGreatYacht]

$98,000,000 to Gasol and Mills is literally just as bad as any of those stupid deals :lol

Just wait until Parker and Green's contract extensions....

[south side spur]

Are these numbers representing how much each of these teams is paying in penalties this season? I'm asking because I thought GSW are looking at an almost 200 million payroll.

According to this article, these potential tax penalties would be for the teams' projected 2018-19 salaries.

[JFK]

$98,000,000 to Gasol and Mills is literally just as bad as any of those stupid deals :lol

Just wait until Parker and Green's contract extensions....



People are going to absolutely melt down. Tony will probably get 3 years he is asking for or maybe 4 more years. Green most likely also will be extended also. Also, bank on someone that would have been a great signing now or 4 years ago to get a big deal thrown their way, like Zach Randolph.

[Chinook]

Once again the league owners and GMs acted like a bunch of drunken hicks with money for the first time and fucked themselves and everybody else.

It's not the owners' faults. They tried to head off this spike by proposing smoothing. The players rejected it. The owners/FOs are at the mercy of market pressures. You can't not sign guys. All it takes is one team willing to overpay, and the "smart" teams end up with no talent and having to either give big one-year deals or paying floor money.

[TheGreatYacht]

People are going to absolutely melt down. Tony will probably get 3 years he is asking for or maybe 4 more years. Green most likely also will be extended also. Also, bank on someone that would have been a great signing now or 4 years ago to get a big deal thrown their way, like Zach Randolph.
:lol

"It was never about the 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 or 2022 FA class guys. 2023 was always the plan. Chess not checkers." - PATFO fluffers

[Mr. Body]

It's not the owners' faults. They tried to head off this spike by proposing smoothing. The players rejected it. The owners/FOs are at the mercy of market pressures. You can't not sign guys. All it takes is one team willing to overpay, and the "smart" teams end up with no talent and having to either give big one-year deals or paying floor money.

No, the owners and GMs always blow their salary alottments. That's the point. They overbid for players like Millsap and hang albatrosses around their necks constantly,

[exstatic]

I had no problem with it if the Spurs didn't want to do any silly deals and overpay for this years' top free agents, but never ever did I image they'd blow 98 million on Gasol and Mills. I am just fucking shocked. I was OK with signing Rudy Gay (who I hope does well and recovers strong from his achilles injury as I also genuinely like the guy) and saving all that cap space for next year. I did not expect the Spurs to blow that much money on two players who were almost useless in the playoffs, though.
The lack of trust in the FO on this board is staggering. Does no one think the Spurs look no further ahead than one year? They see not much cap room for next summer, just like any article you might read. Lack of cap room mean lack of opt outs, and so, lack of movement. They're keeping their powder dry for 2019. At that point, Gasol can either be stretched easily, or salary dumped, gaining some team about $10M in cap room if they cut him. Kawhi is eligible for a 5/$217M super max extension next summer, far more than any other team can offer, and it won't kick in until 2019. Butler and PG13 were NOT eligible for this, leaving their teams hanging out to dry by having to compete with other teams similar offers, and that's the main reason they went on the trade block.

[Clipper Nation]

Why I see this as an ESPN attempt to control NBA free agency course? These mofos gotta be deep inside in Vegas. Money laundering anyone?
It's basic math, tbh. ESPN has nothing to do with it, it's the players' union who was greedy and wouldn't agree to smooth out the cap increase.

[sasaint]

Which makes the Gasol deal in particular so worrisome. We had the chance to take a huge opportunity to have good cap space. We could have signed a top dog and possible 2 borderline allstars that had to take a pay cut. Instead we have a 39 year old taking that coin. The best thing could have happen was Gasol opting in. He saved us a massive 1 million this season. 1 fucking million and a blown 2018 agency.

This... Smh! Begs the question, though, whether CP3 screwed us. I don't think PATFO works with Pau on an opt-out and re-sign unless they were confident that they could sign their FA target.

[sasaint]

$98,000,000 to Gasol and Mills is literally just as bad as any of those stupid deals :lol

Just wait until Parker and Green's contract extensions....

Instead of Gasol and Mills and the plethora of project Gs they have collected, I wish they had taken some flyers. We desperately need athleticism yet we allowed two of our best athletes to walk. Nobody - not even PATFO re-ups Tony at this juncture. THIS SEASON is his gift. And Danny will be traded before that.

[vy65]

NBA star Patty Mills searches for answers to stopping Golden State Warriors and reaching young readers

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/nba-star-patty-mills-searches-for-answers-to-stopping-golden-state-warriors-and-reaching-young-readers-20170728-gxkq8r.html

:lol doesn't know how to beat the competition
:lol det confidence
:lol 4/12.5
:lol children's books
:lol mein kulture
:lol Fatty Mills
:lol Spurs

[Chinook]

No, the owners and GMs always blow their salary alottments. That's the point. They overbid for players like Millsap and hang albatrosses around their necks constantly,

You make it sound like the cap is their allowance or something. It's the their operating budget. Not spending parts of it is putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage. Sure, if the league were a hive mind, it could dictate the market and not "not overpay", but game theory should tell you why that doesn't work.

The only way to reasonably curtail spending is by limiting the amount they CAN spend. The owners tried to do this with a tax, but this is only partially effective and ultimately wrong-headed. They've tried with a hard cap too, but the players rejected that (for good reason on their part. Smoothing would have limited the APY for the overpaid guys and opened up a new cap stream for future players. It was the best way to make everyone happy in the long run, but because the NBPA is run by older stars, it was never going to fly.

Now the players are stuck without the prospect of future money, while the owners are just fine.

[Spurtacular]

I had no problem with it if the Spurs didn't want to do any silly deals and overpay for this years' top free agents, but never ever did I image they'd blow 98 million on Gasol and Mills. I am just fucking shocked. I was OK with signing Rudy Gay (who I hope does well and recovers strong from his achilles injury as I also genuinely like the guy) and saving all that cap space for next year. I did not expect the Spurs to blow that much money on two players who were almost useless in the playoffs, though.

Proven rotation players don't come that cheap. I'm not shocked at all in terms of the dollar figures.

[YGWHI]

Golden State possible 38.5 million tax bill
Houston possible 56.2 million tax bill
Oklahoma City possible 74.5 million tax bill

Yeah these GMs are "light years ahead". Dumbfucks who doubt PATFO. Capela and Thompson are there for the taking these next 2 summers.

I wonder why you're worried about those owners' money...If Lacob is willing to pay tax the next season in order to have the best team he could make, I wouldn't criticize him, I would APPLAUD him.

I would love if my favorite team has an owner who wouldn't care about tax while signing two, three max deals to win a ring against the other superteams of the league.

[YGWHI]

The lack of trust in the FO on this board is staggering. Does no one think the Spurs look no further ahead than one year? They see not much cap room for next summer, just like any article you might read. Lack of cap room mean lack of opt outs, and so, lack of movement. They're keeping their powder dry for 2019.
They could have more cap room in 2018 without those 16M of Gasol's deal of next summer. The goal was supposedly in 2018 with Parker's contract ending, plenty of player and team options, that would be the perfect situation, but now it's 2019?
However, after Parker's new contract and posible Danny's new deal, I doubt about Spurs flexibility in 2019. Then they will dream with 2021...


At that point, Gasol can either be stretched easily, or salary dumped, gaining some team about $10M in cap room if they cut him. Kawhi is eligible for a 5/$217M super max extension next summer, far more than any other team can offer, and it won't kick in until 2019. Butler and PG13 were NOT eligible for this, leaving their teams hanging out to dry by having to compete with other teams similar offers, and that's the main reason they went on the trade block.

I wouldn't be so sure about the Spurs giving Kawhi that extension, they will convince him to wait for the team signing some FAs but they will reject any Spurs' offer anyway....

[TimDunkem]

Spurs had one of the worst off-seasons in the West.

They didn't accomplish any of their goals.
Didn't sign anyone who moves the needle.
Lost flexibility.
Gave out bad contracts - Mills and Gasol alone is as much as a max contract
Made a risky move for Gay.
Made a bad draft pick.
Likely got worse as a whole and didn't improve at any positions of need while losing depth.

Christ...What a shitty off-season

[Ice009]

Smoothing would have limited the APY for the overpaid guys and opened up a new cap stream for future players. It was the best way to make everyone happy in the long run, but because the NBPA is run by older stars, it was never going to fly.

What is smoothing?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

What is smoothing?

When the $s of the new deal were known and it was clear there was going to be a huge cap increase, some of the smarter people proposed that the cap doesn't increase so sharply, but the increase should be smoothed over a period of time, so that every FA would get a piece of it, instead of just those who were FAs last summer, and to a lesser extend this one. Say, the cap wouldn't have risen from $70 mil to $90 to $100 in 2 years, but it could have been smoother, while the players would still be getting their 51% per the CBA.

The players union rejected this proposal, as it was apparently too difficult for them to realize that dipping their hands in the cash immediately wasn't the best long term solution. Thus now we have the super team in GS and Chandler Parsons on a $100mil contract and some really good players on bargain deals.

[exstatic]

The players rejected smoothing because a mutual CBA opt out for both sides was approaching, and any new CBA would be a blank sheet of paper, and any deferred "smoothing dollars" could be forfeited. A bird in the hand...

[south side spur]

I wonder why you're worried about those owners' money...If Lacob is willing to pay tax the next season in order to have the best team he could make, I wouldn't criticize him, I would APPLAUD him.

I would love if my favorite team has an owner who wouldn't care about tax while signing two, three max deals to win a ring against the other superteams of the league.

Why would I be worried about these owners possibly paying repeater tax penalties in 2019? If it leads to Thompson being signed by the Spurs, or any other team, I'm hoping they continue to their spending. Like you mentioned, a team can sign two maybe three max deals but not four. They're keeping Donkey so Thompson is gone.


They could have more cap room in 2018 without those 16M of Gasol's deal of next summer. The goal was supposedly in 2018 with Parker's contract ending, plenty of player and team options, that would be the perfect situation, but now it's 2019?

However, after Parker's new contract and possibly Danny's new deal, I doubt about Spurs flexibility in 2019. Then they will dream with 2021...

I wouldn't be so sure about the Spurs giving Kawhi that extension, they will convince him to wait for the team signing some FAs but they will reject any Spurs' offer anyway....

Just keep focusing on worst case scenarios for the Spurs if that's what makes you happy. I'll save my applause for the Spurs you can applaud other franchises.

Do I agree with every single decision PATFO makes? Of course not but at least I'm smart enough to realize that they're more qualified to make those decisions compared to some of the vocal minority here.

[Chinook]

The players rejected smoothing because a mutual CBA opt out for both sides was approaching, and any new CBA would be a blank sheet of paper, and any deferred "smoothing dollars" could be forfeited. A bird in the hand...

That assumes smoothing was going to be a deferred process. Instead, it could have been an expedite (bumping up the 2015 cap by several million and lowering the 2017 cap. I'm pretty sure that was at least part of the reported proposal (the 2015 bump, not necessarily the 2017 decrease), as well as a lump sum to the players. If anything, I think it was the latter aspect that turned the NBPA off, because that would have meant all players getting an equal slice, and the president and VP of the players' association weren't about to agree to that.

[YGWHI]

Why would I be worried about these owners possibly paying repeater tax penalties in 2019? If it leads to Thompson being signed by the Spurs, or any other team, I'm hoping they continue to their spending. Like you mentioned, a team can sign two maybe three max deals but not four. They're keeping Donkey so Thompson is gone.
Like if the Spurs will sign Thompson or GSW losing Thompson will affect their chance of winning other ring.
Tell me when they can lose Curry or KD -which isn't the case for the next two seasons until 2020- and I'll be worried about other teams paying tax.



Just keep focusing on worst case scenarios for the Spurs if that's what makes you happy. I'll save my applause for the Spurs you can applaud other franchises.

Do I agree with every single decision PATFO makes? Of course not but at least I'm smart enough to realize that they're more qualified to make those decisions compared to some of the vocal minority here.

Good for you. :tu

Next time, you will need to be smart enough to realize that if fans criticize PATFO doesn't mean they think they can make better decisions running an NBA organization.

Anyway, the inability of some fans to recognize Spurs' FO failed this offseason in any target they had is annoying.

The Spurs desperately wanted to Pau to opt out to clear space for a big fish, like they wanted to trade Green for the same reason....

They failed in their attempt to lure a big name this offseason and that's why they have to waint until 2019-2021 instead of 2018.

Now, people are dennying that and posting 2019 was originally the real goal but it wasn't true.

[south side spur]

Like if the Spurs will sign Thompson or GSW losing Thompson will affect their chance of winning other ring.

Next time, you will need to be smart enough to realize that if fans criticize PATFO doesn't mean they think they can make better decisions running an NBA organization.

Anyway, the inability of some fans to recognize Spurs' FO failed this offseason in any target they had is annoying.

If you don't see how losing Thompson makes the Warriors worse we'll just agree to disagree on that. But to say that if he actually signed with the Spurs that wouldn't give them an advantage over the Warriors? Please.

The Spurs failed in landing any target? So the Spurs didn't target Gay? That was obvious and they signed him.

What you really meant was PATFO didn't land Paul so that's a failure? That's debatable. I'm actually glad they didn't sign him. If he really wanted to be a Spur he would've taken a pay cut he didn't and that's the end of it. Ultimately, the Spurs are still going to advance versus the Rockets in the playoffs.

You say the inabilty of fans recognizing this off season as a failure annoys you. I can't imagine that is more annoying than almost every thread turning into how PATFO are clueless.

[SAGirl]

LMA opting in confirmed.


Lol. If that happens, then this off-season was an even bigger fuckup than I thought.


Which makes the Gasol deal in particular so worrisome. We had the chance to take a huge opportunity to have good cap space. We could have signed a top dog and possible 2 borderline allstars that had to take a pay cut. Instead we have a 39 year old taking that coin. The best thing could have happen was Gasol opting in. He saved us a massive 1 million this season. 1 fucking million and a blown 2018 agency.


I was really glad the SA stayed away from the "new market" deals. But then they went and re-upped guys on big, long-term deals without really having an established star foundation to justify it. I do think that Patty and Pau are better values than Turner, Crabbe, Bazemore and the like. But it's terrible to lock up your cap at a time where cap space could become valuable again.
All of this. ^
2017 summer
:bang