Predict the Western Conference bloodbath

[StrengthAndHonor]

1. GSW
2. Rockets
3. Clippers
4. Spurs
5. Thunder
6. Wolves
7. Grizzlies
8. Lakers

Wolves and Lakers are in, Blazers and Jazz out. I'm tempted to replace the Lakers with Portland but I've seen enough from Lonzo and I believe he'll get the Lakers to the playoffs. Career years for KCP, Randle, Lopez also helps their chances. Clippers looks amazing and a lot more balance than the CP3 era lob city. Spurs made a couple of unsatisfactory moves which will come back and bite them in the butt. Rockets is my dark horse pick to represent the Western Conference this year.

[Jodelo]

:lmao

[DAF86]

Warriors
Rockets
Spurs
Thunder
Blazers
Grizzlies
Clippers
Wolves

[DMC]

Warriors
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Rockets
Spurs
.
Thunder
Blazers
Griz
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Clippers
Wolves

[Chris]

8. Lakers

:lol

[ambchang]

Houston is so overrated it's funny. CP3 is perfect for the dantoni system. Harden is perfect for the dantoni system. But too bad that system is to have one single ball dominant lead guard and both of them are perfect for that system because both of them are ball dominant lead guards. I will have to wait till they figure out how either of them can produce as a spot up shooter before hailing them as the second best team in the west.

[whitemamba]

Houston is so overrated it's funny. CP3 is perfect for the dantoni system. Harden is perfect for the dantoni system. But too bad that system is to have one single ball dominant lead guard and both of them are perfect for that system because both of them are ball dominant lead guards. I will have to wait till they figure out how either of them can produce as a spot up shooter before hailing them as the second best team in the west.
It could work tbh.. But i just don't see CP0 sustaining a mike dantoni season without getting injured and eventually shut down.

[DAF86]

Houston is so overrated it's funny. CP3 is perfect for the dantoni system. Harden is perfect for the dantoni system. But too bad that system is to have one single ball dominant lead guard and both of them are perfect for that system because both of them are ball dominant lead guards. I will have to wait till they figure out how either of them can produce as a spot up shooter before hailing them as the second best team in the west.

Yeah, I'm sure they will have a hard time adating to all those wide open catch and shoot opportunities.

[Spurtacular]

Lakers ain't makin' the playoffs (before Lebron gets there).

[Robz4000]

Dubs
Rockets
OKC
T'Pups
Pelicans
Spurs
Guests
Clippers

[Down Under]

Houston is so overrated it's funny. CP3 is perfect for the dantoni system. Harden is perfect for the dantoni system. But too bad that system is to have one single ball dominant lead guard and both of them are perfect for that system because both of them are ball dominant lead guards. I will have to wait till they figure out how either of them can produce as a spot up shooter before hailing them as the second best team in the west.

[Mitch]

Lakers
GSW

rest doesn't matter

Trust in Lonzo and Lavar :tu

[resistanze]

Bloodbath :lol. The West and the rest of the league has conceded next season to the Warriors.

[ambchang]

It could work tbh.. But i just don't see CP0 sustaining a mike dantoni season without getting injured and eventually shut down.

Yeah. I am not saying that there is no way it would work, but a lot of things will have to fall in place.


Yeah, I'm sure they will have a hard time adating to all those wide open catch and shoot opportunities.

CP3 and Harden are not the traditional catch and shoot guys, they are dribblers and pound the air out of the ball. I suppose it helps them mitigate the risk of one "choking" in the playoffs by having the other have the ball, but the reason both of them has a history of choking isn't really because they choke, it's because their style of play is easier to defend in the playoffs with proper game planning. They are ball dominant players, and unless both of them change the way they play significantly, they are duplicating each other's strengths.

I personally think CP3 is probably the better of the two in the role, as he is a better defender and facilitator, but then what will Harden do? Revert to his OKC role?

[DAF86]

CP3 and Harden are not the traditional catch and shoot guys, they are dribblers and pound the air out of the ball. I suppose it helps them mitigate the risk of one "choking" in the playoffs by having the other have the ball, but the reason both of them has a history of choking isn't really because they choke, it's because their style of play is easier to defend in the playoffs with proper game planning. They are ball dominant players, and unless both of them change the way they play significantly, they are duplicating each other's strengths.

I personally think CP3 is probably the better of the two in the role, as he is a better defender and facilitator, but then what will Harden do? Revert to his OKC role?

The problem with your reasoning is that CP3 and Harden are both very good shooters. If Wade and Lebron (both unreliable shooters) made it work on offense, I'm sure CP3 and Harden will be just fine.

[ambchang]

The problem with your reasoning is that CP3 and Harden are both very good shooters. If Wade and Lebron (both unreliable shooters) made it work on offense, I'm sure CP3 and Harden will be just fine.

It's about the style of play. They both love to dribble first before shooting when they get the ball. Can they be just shooters? I am sure they can be, but it's a habit they have to break.

Also, why would you pay someone max $ to be a catch and shoot guy if you can have one for $10M?

[DAF86]

It's about the style of play. They both love to dribble first before shooting when they get the ball. Can they be just shooters? I am sure they can be, but it's a habit they have to break.

Also, why would you pay someone max $ to be a catch and shoot guy if you can have one for $10M?

Because you aren't paying max money to Harden and CP3 to be strictly catch and shoot guys. You do know that there are more than enough possesions to go around for two ball dominant players in one team, right?

You have spent the last 15 years watching three ball dominant guys play together on the Spurs, why are you suddenly making a big deal about two ball dominant players playing together?

[SpursforSix]

Because you aren't paying max money to Harden and CP3 to be strictly catch and shoot guys. You do know that there are more than enough possesions to go around for two ball dominant players in one team, right?

You have spent the last 15 years watching three ball dominant guys play together on the Spurs, why are you suddenly making a big deal about two ball dominant players playing together?

Are you saying Parker, Manu, and Duncan are/were ball dominant? I disagree with that.

[DAF86]

Are you saying Parker, Manu, and Duncan are/were ball dominant? I disagree with that.

Just because they got to play all together and share the load doesn't mean they weren't ball dominant players. In Argentina and Europe Manu got the ball on his hands every single time down the court, when he got to the NBA he obviously had to adapt. Duncan up to 2003 got the ball on the block almost everytime too, and Tony is probably the most ball dominant of the three.

They were all ball dominant players, but since they had to play together they had to share the ball, and since they were all great, talented and smart they made it work. Just like CP3 and Harden will make it work in Houston.

[SpursforSix]

Just because they got to play all together and share the load doesn't mean they weren't ball dominant players. In Argentina and Europe Manu got the ball on his hands every single time down the court, when he got to the NBA he obviously had to adapt. Duncan up to 2003 got the ball on the block almost everytime too, and Tony is probably the most ball dominant of the three.

They were all ball dominant players, but since they had to play together they had to share the ball, and since they were all great, talented and smart they made it work. Just like CP3 and Harden will make it work in Houston.

Timmy and Manu were always great passers. But they were put into situations where they didn't have the players around them to show that. I don't think this makes them ball dominant.

Regardless, I agree with you that CP3 and Harden will probably make it work.

[DAF86]

Timmy and Manu were always great passers. But they were put into situations where they didn't have the players around them to show that. I don't think this makes them ball dominant.

Regardless, I agree with you that CP3 and Harden will probably make it work.

Being great passers and being ball dominant players isn't mutually exclusive, tbh. In fact, those two things are often connected.

[SpursforSix]

Being great passers and being ball dominant players isn't mutually exclusive, tbh. In fact, those two things are often connected.

True. I still don't think most would consider Timmy and Manu "ball dominant".

[ambchang]

Because you aren't paying max money to Harden and CP3 to be strictly catch and shoot guys. You do know that there are more than enough possesions to go around for two ball dominant players in one team, right?

You have spent the last 15 years watching three ball dominant guys play together on the Spurs, why are you suddenly making a big deal about two ball dominant players playing together?

I am assuming you are saying Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are ball dominant. I can see Parker being one, but Ginobili is extremely good off ball (one of the best), and Duncan can dominate games even without scoring (defense, positioning).

Besides, Duncan was clearly the one managing the offense all the way up to around 2008, then Ginobili took over for a few years before Parker took more of the offensive load in 2012 or so. Three of them were never ball dominant together.

Of course there are enough possessions, but the issue goes back to the original point I made, D'antoni's system is to have one single ball dominant lead guard dictate the offense. First with Nash, then with Lin, then with Kobe (failed because he wouldn't pass), then with Harden. I am not sure how he would integrate both of them in that offense. But I guess you are right, D'antoni is a very underrated offensive coach, perhaps he can break a decade of habit.

[DAF86]

I am assuming you are saying Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are ball dominant. I can see Parker being one, but Ginobili is extremely good off ball (one of the best), and Duncan can dominate games even without scoring (defense, positioning).

Besides, Duncan was clearly the one managing the offense all the way up to around 2008, then Ginobili took over for a few years before Parker took more of the offensive load in 2012 or so. Three of them were never ball dominant together.

Of course there are enough possessions, but the issue goes back to the original point I made, D'antoni's system is to have one single ball dominant lead guard dictate the offense. First with Nash, then with Lin, then with Kobe (failed because he wouldn't pass), then with Harden. I am not sure how he would integrate both of them in that offense. But I guess you are right, D'antoni is a very underrated offensive coach, perhaps he can break a decade of habit.

Ginobili became a good off ball player once he got to the NBA, before that he was always a ball dominant player. You know why he was able to do that transition? Because he's a good passer, a good shooter and has great instincts. All things that both Paul and Harden posses, so I see them easily being able to adapt to that role. Also, Harden began his career alongside Westbrook and Durant, I'm sure he knows a thing or two about playing off ball, tbh.

And the only thing D'antoni needs to do is keep preaching that fast tempo, free flowing offense and things will unfold naturally because he has more talent than ever before (for his style of play). And when he needs to set a midcourt offense just have Paul and Harden taking turns to run the pick and roll, tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

Doc spent years preaching a fast tempo, only for CP0 to ignore him and sloooooooowwwwwlyyyy dribble the air out of the ball on every possession. I suspect it will be the same story in Houston with Pringles.

[ambchang]

Ginobili became a good off ball player once he got to the NBA, before that he was always a ball dominant player. You know why he was able to do that transition? Because he's a good passer, a good shooter and has great instincts. All things that both Paul and Harden posses, so I see them easily being able to adapt to that role. Also, Harden began his career alongside Westbrook and Durant, I'm sure he knows a thing or two about playing off ball, tbh.

And the only thing D'antoni needs to do is keep preaching that fast tempo, free flowing offense and things will unfold naturally because he has more talent than ever before (for his style of play). And when he needs to set a midcourt offense just have Paul and Harden taking turns to run the pick and roll, tbh.

I haven't seen ginobili in Italy so I'll take your word for it, but I gotta say I have to wait and see. People has to realize this is t the local y, the structure is dictated by the coach and dantoni is a PG one pass pffense, it's not a free flowing princess on offense. To say that he only needs to push the tempo is way over simplifying it.

[RsxPiimp]

Lakers
GSW

rest doesn't matter

Trust in Lonzo and Lavar :tu
lonzo will be a solid player but he wont be the savior y'll make him out to be. ingram is that dude tho

[Mitch]

lonzo will be a solid player but he wont be the savior y'll make him out to be. ingram is that dude tho

Trust in Lonzo, he wont fail you like Manny Pacquiao tbh

[Raven]

:lmao

[Raven]

The problem with your reasoning is that CP3 and Harden are both very good shooters. If Wade and Lebron (both unreliable shooters) made it work on offense, I'm sure CP3 and Harden will be just fine.

wade and lebron were also outstanding defenders which cp0 and harden are not, not to mention, they didn't play in antoni's scheme

[ambchang]

lonzo will be a solid player but he wont be the savior y'll make him out to be. ingram is that dude tho

But when it actually was Ingram, people will say Ingram got that good because of Lonzo. Laker fans are generally idiots, and love to give credit to the wrong people.

[DAF86]

wade and lebron were also outstanding defenders which cp0 and harden are not, not to mention, they didn't play in antoni's scheme

Paul is a perennial all-defensive team player. Anyways, we weren't talking about defense.

[BD24]

Could you make it anymore obvious your a lakers fan?

[StrengthAndHonor]

Could you make it anymore obvious your a lakers fan?

Why? Because I picked them to make the playoffs? Even Vegas has them winning 37 games this upcoming season.

They can absolutely win 4 more games, considering how good Lonzo is.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Honestly guys, with Lonzo, every player on the court becomes an automatic offensive weapon (See Kyle Kuzma, Vander Blue and Thomas Bryant, all D-League quality players).

[DMC]

Honestly guys, with Lonzo, every player on the court becomes an automatic offensive weapon (See Kyle Kuzma, Vander Blue and Thomas Bryant, all D-League quality players).

You're an idiot.

[Buddy Mignon]

What do the Grizzlies have. They lost ZBo and Carter. Tony Allen has yet to sign. I just don't see how they make the playoffs. Lakers will be better than Portland, Memphis, Clippas, and Wolves. I got us at the 6th seed.

[BD24]

Why? Because I picked them to make the playoffs? Even Vegas has them winning 37 games this upcoming season.

They can absolutely win 4 more games, considering how good Lonzo is.
Coming from the same guy who though D'Angelo was gonna be a top 5 pg last year :lol

That was also based on a great summer league.

[DMC]

Coming from the same guy who though D'Angelo was gonna be a top 5 pg last year :lol

That was also based on a great summer league.

:lol

[BD24]

What do the Grizzlies have. They lost ZBo and Carter. Tony Allen has yet to sign. I just don't see how they make the playoffs. Lakers will be better than Portland, Memphis, Clippas, and Wolves. I got us at the 6th seed.
So your saying you wont be sneaking...

[Killakobe81]

lakers miss playoffs but 35 40 wins are possible ...

mark me down for 37

[ambchang]

Warriors -68
Spurs - 58
Houston - 58
OKC - 50
Minnesota - 48
Clippers - 47
Pelicans - 47
Denver - 45
Utah - 43
Portland -35
Lakers - 32
Memphis - 30
Dallas - 27
Sacramento - 25
Phoenix - 24

The West suck this year.

[RsxPiimp]

lakers miss playoffs but 35 40 wins are possible ...

mark me down for 37

waaay too high bro. you're asking for an 11-14 win improvement. the success of the team appears to fall on lonzo's ability to make his team better.


I just don't think the kid is ready to carry the load. he'll hit a wall and I expect him to really struggle along the way. look at his frame. he's lucky to last 65 games.


32 wins, tops imo.

[DAF86]

waaay too high bro. you're asking for an 11-14 win improvement. the success of the team appears to fall on lonzo's ability to make his team better.


I just don't think the kid is ready to carry the load. he'll hit a wall and I expect him to really struggle along the way. look at his frame. he's lucky to last 65 games.


32 wins, tops imo.

The more losses for you the better.

Lonzo + Ingram + lotery pick + cap space to atract one or two max players. That's a very promising 2018/19 season, tbh.

[dfens]

What do the Grizzlies have. They lost ZBo and Carter. Tony Allen has yet to sign. I just don't see how they make the playoffs. Lakers will be better than Portland, Memphis, Clippas, and Wolves. I got us at the 6th seed.

all that hard work of setting up the bait and then you go on and say lakers > wolves :lmao

[Down Under]

The Clippers are going to surprise a lot of people, health permitting IMO. Griffin can finally be unleashed if he can stay on the court, Teodosic is a guru whose defensive shortcomings will be hidden by him having to defend SG's & Beverley will defend quicker PGs. DJ should still get plenty of lobs from Teodosic. Add Gallinari in & that's a very solid starting 5.

GSW
ROCKETS
SPURS
THUNDER
CLIPPERS
GRIZZLIES
BLAZERS
WOLVES

[RsxPiimp]

The more losses for you the better.

Lonzo + Ingram + lotery pick + cap space to atract one or two max players. That's a very promising 2018/19 season, tbh.
lakers has no draft pick in 2018

[Spurtacular]

GS vs. Kawhi and scrubs in the conference finals, maybe; hopefully the semifinals. Would like to play Warriors early.

[Killakobe81]

waaay too high bro. you're asking for an 11-14 win improvement. the success of the team appears to fall on lonzo's ability to make his team better.


I just don't think the kid is ready to carry the load. he'll hit a wall and I expect him to really struggle along the way. look at his frame. he's lucky to last 65 games.


32 wins, tops imo.

didnt we win 27? that is just 10 games and west is top heavy. the bottom half is all mediocre to shitty tbh
having lopez replace mozgof who gave us nothing is a huge improvement
besides im not relying on Lonzoto carry us just him pushing tempo should help ckarkson randke nance etc.
luke says he trying to limit ball to 32-33 mins a game anyways.

[ambchang]

Warriors -68
Spurs - 58
Houston - 58
OKC - 50
Minnesota - 48
Clippers - 47
Pelicans - 47
Denver - 45
Utah - 43
Portland -35
Lakers - 32
Memphis - 30
Dallas - 27
Sacramento - 25
Phoenix - 24

The West suck this year.

ESPN, so take it with a grain of salt http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20225286/projected-records-win-totals-standings-every-nba-team-2017-18-season

Similar to what I had, but they still ranked Houston over the Spurs.

Warriors: 62.1
Houston: 55.0
Spurs: 52.6
Sota: 50.1
OKC: 49.5
Clippers: 48.9
Nuggets: 47.2
Jazz: 44.7
Pels: 44.2
Blazers:43.8
Mavs: 34.6
Grizzlies: 34.6
Lakers: 33.0
Suns: 30.3
Kings: 27.4

ESPN didn't project the level of parity I did. I think the Warriors will win more than 62 games for sure, I am pretty sure the Spurs will win more than 53 games. I may have been too high on the Pels, but I think the Mavs will fall further compared to last year.

Clippers will be better than most people expect, but that obviously depends if Rivers can play a totally different style with Griffin initiating most of the offense, and turn the team to focus more on perimeter defense.

[140]

ESPN, so take it with a grain of salt http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20225286/projected-records-win-totals-standings-every-nba-team-2017-18-season

Similar to what I had, but they still ranked Houston over the Spurs.

Warriors: 62.1
Houston: 55.0
Spurs: 52.6
Sota: 50.1
OKC: 49.5
Clippers: 48.9
Nuggets: 47.2
Jazz: 44.7
Pels: 44.2
Blazers:43.8
Mavs: 34.6
Grizzlies: 34.6
Lakers: 33.0
Suns: 30.3
Kings: 27.4

ESPN didn't project the level of parity I did. I think the Warriors will win more than 62 games for sure, I am pretty sure the Spurs will win more than 53 games. I may have been too high on the Pels, but I think the Mavs will fall further compared to last year.

Clippers will be better than most people expect, but that obviously depends if Rivers can play a totally different style with Griffin initiating most of the offense, and turn the team to focus more on perimeter defense.
Mavs are tricky to predict but I don't see them falling from last year tbh. They had an awful start to the season, were fucked by injuries the whole year and still managed to be somewhat in the run for the 8th seed up until a point. I'd be a lot more surprised to see them winning less compared to last year than I'd be to see them battling for the 8th seed again.

[DAF86]

lakers has no draft pick in 2018

What did you get to give that up?

[RsxPiimp]

What did you get to give that up?

not sure man but we probably got fleeced either way

[IronMexican]

The protection on the Sixers pick is finally over. It was top 5,then 3 protected.