Jordan Calls Kawhi "Best 2-Way Player in the Game"

[DMC]

ESPN

Take it for what it's worth.

[apalisoc_9]

He's the best player in the game...Best 2-way BS.

[DMC]

He's the best player in the game...Best 2-way BS.

The question was "could Kawhi score on Kawhi". So Jordan's answer makes sense. Yours, not so much but expected for bottom tier posters.

[apalisoc_9]

The question was "could Kawhi score on Kawhi". So Jordan's answer makes sense. Yours, not so much but expected for bottom tier posters.

You're a fatass bro. Go post at Hamburgersforobese.com

[ducks]

How do you know if she is fat?

[Keepin' it real]

So where would a player regarded as the best 2 way player rank in terms of best (overall) player? Top 10? Top 25? How would someone quantify that?

[BatManu20]

GOAT recognizing present-GOAT, tbh.

[Down Under]

He's the GOAT but you can take anyone who drafted Kwame Brown AND Adam Morrison seriously :lol. Kawhi will be the best player this season though as he expands his passing game.

[DMC]

So where would a player regarded as the best 2 way player rank in terms of best (overall) player? Top 10? Top 25? How would someone quantify that?

impossible to say. You take a guy with 2 skillsets in a game that needs 2 skillsets, he can be the best when both are in play but not the best at either individually, but KL is the best defender. He's good enough on defense to push him to that level of "best 2-way player" since he also scores well.

[John B]

Should translate to the best player of the game :bobo

[I. Hustle]

You're a fatass bro. Go post at Hamburgersforobese.com

Is that really a site? Don't make me go there and get a virus. I want to know!

[TimDunkem]

How do you know if she is fat?
Have you seen the picture he posted of his hands? Dude is like the Michelin Man.

[TheGreatYacht]

You're a fatass bro. Go post at Hamburgersforobese.com

Have you seen the picture he posted of his hands? Dude is like the Michelin Man.
:lmao

[UNT Eagles 2016]

:lmao

That's why he converted to Islam. Ramadan is an excuse for dieting to lose weight

[Ice009]

What did Jordan say? Is there video footage of it?

[BD24]

He also thinks Kobe is better on the all time list than Lebron and is one of the worst judges of talent in the entire league. So there is that.

[313]

"Best 2-way player" is the new "best power forward ever"". Backhanded compliment.

[SpursforSix]

Even though he's right, you have to take Jordan with a grain of salt. Anything to keep LeBron from being talked about.

[DMC]

Even though he's right, you have to take Jordan with a grain of salt. Anything to keep LeBron from being talked about.

Plus KL participates in the Jordan camp I think.

[Uriel]

Again with these backhanded compliments. :rolleyes Kawhi deserves that level of praise even without the "2-way" part.

[benefactor]

Plus KL participates in the Jordan camp I think.
Correct.

[apalisoc_9]

"Best 2-way player" is the new "best power forward ever"". Backhanded compliment.

Pretty much..

[UZER]

"Best 2-way player" is the new "best power forward ever"". Backhanded compliment.

True

[Mr. Body]

Fuck Jordan.

[BillMc]

Jordan is right. Bitch' A Smith in this vid is wrong:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZsHHU4tTaw

[RD2191]

"Best 2-way player" is the new "best power forward ever"". Backhanded compliment.

TBH

[coachmac87]

If Kawhi played for the Knicks SAS would say he's "Box Office"

SAS is a douche

[Spurtacular]

He also thinks Kobe is better on the all time list than Lebron and is one of the worst judges of talent in the entire league. So there is that.

Dad Killer promotes that b/c it's easy to prove he's better than Kobe in every meaningful metric. For what it's worth I don't think either are better than prime Larry Bird (or Tim Duncan); so, I don't give a fuck.

[tholdren]

He also thinks Kobe is better on the all time list than Lebron and is one of the worst judges of talent in the entire league. So there is that.

Kobe is/was

[BD24]

Kobe is/was
Always good when the forum retards identify themselves.

[TimDunkem]

Always good when the forum retards identify themselves.
Guy is the village idiot. Pay him no mind.

[sasaint]

Should translate to the best player of the game :bobo

At least until the best three-way player comes along...

[Ice009]

Is there video footage of Jordan saying this? I'd like to hear what he said.

[cutewizard]

Question is.......

Who was the best two way player during Jordans time??

[Emperor]

Question is.......

Who was the best two way player during Jordans time??

Jordan.

[TheDoctor]

Is there video footage of Jordan saying this? I'd like to hear what he said.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2725567-michael-jordan-says-kawhi-leonard-is-the-best-2-way-player-in-the-nba

[John B]

Question is.......

Who was the best two way player during Jordans time??
I would say Jordan. Him and Pippen are 1 and 2 tbh

[Arcadian]

He's the best player in the game...Best 2-way BS.

Those are the same thing, though. The best 2-way player IS the best player.

You might argue "why even say 2-way then?" Which is valid, but that doesn't mean "2-way" is less good, it's just being more specific. At least that's how I see it.

[tholdren]

Guy is the village idiot. Pay him no mind.

Lol. Lebron cemented his legacy when he quit the cavs the first time. If you dont understand that, which obviously you two dont, you probably shouldnt post

[apalisoc_9]

Those are the same thing, though. The best 2-way player IS the best player.

You might argue "why even say 2-way then?" Which is valid, but that doesn't mean "2-way" is less good, it's just being more specific. At least that's how I see it.

Its looking like many people see the same way though

[Raven]

there is no player that sets himself way above the pack. The top is wider than usual. The 4 that have a legitimate case are Kawhi, Lebron, Curry and Durant. Not very far are Harden and Westbrook. Meaning each of these 6 could be the MVP next year. Whenever Jordan was around, you already knew he was going to win. So the best 2 way player argument is just confusing a bit, but it means that he's the most balanced player among the top ones.

[Maddog]

Kawhi is the best 2 way player.
No debate. However, is he the best player? He is up there, but IMHO a bit below LeBron and maybe Durant.
I think Zach Lowe summed it up
The ability to manufacture shots, for yourself and your teammates, is the single most valuable skill in the NBA.....
And then there is defense. It is not really half the game, even if you spend literally half the game on defense. At the superstar level, individual offense is more important than defense. And a wing defender can't impact every possession

[Blake]

I'm past tired of the term 2 way player

[tholdren]

I'm past tired of the term 2 way player

Just goes to show how "skilled" these nba players are when you have to coin phrases like that. Aau and ghetto ball created a one dimensional game of chucking, and teenage "fans" jumped on the media hype.

Start drafting high iq players and then media darling lebum wont have to tell evryone how hugh his bbiq is... which isnt very

[dbestpro]

If the NBA allowed teams to plat defense then Leonard would be the best player in the NBA. World B Free would be all NBA in today's game.

[apalisoc_9]

If the NBA allowed teams to plat defense then Leonard would be the best player in the NBA. World B Free would be all NBA in today's game.

Leonard is the best player in the nba even at tbis current form.

[Spurtacular]

Jordan.

:lmao


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8dEZJtNFNw

[Spurtacular]

:lmao


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8dEZJtNFNw

Elite level poster, tbh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKoXZ1f00Mc

[DMC]

Leonard isn't the best player in the NBA. Setting these false narratives just serves to more easily devalue him later.

He's never carried his team to a championship. He didn't get them over the hump against the Thunder, and though he played really well in the playoffs this year, he didn't finish. Health is a big part of "best player" accolades. It's a big reason why Lebron gets the nod still. Kawhi is probably 3rd or 4th, if you take him over AD, KD, Curry and Lebron, then sure. I'd take him over Curry, but I've not seen AD on a good team to know what he can do. I'd take KD over Leonard even though I like Leonard more. Chosing Lebron over Kawhi is a no brainer, even if just for the team you can put around him. Who's coming to play alongside Kawhi?

[tbdog]

Leonard is the best player in the West and only second to Lebron. Better than Curry, Harden, and Durant. I am not sure how we have won 60 wins last season. Kevin Love is the third player for the Cavs and average more points and rebounds that LMA, who is our second best player. We got a little exited with Simmons, avg 6 points. And Dedmon avg 5 & 6.5rebs. He deserved MVP, but the media gave it to the stat stuffers. I know Pop and the coaching staff deserve credit, but our D wasn't as good as the season before. LMA and Parker regressed. Green remained the same. Gasol added something different but is no Duncan.

[lefty]

Elite level poster, tbh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKoXZ1f00Mc

Jordan is so overrated tbh :lol

But he has made Kawhi haters mad, so I'm ok with that

[cjw]

Leonard isn't the best player in the NBA. Setting these false narratives just serves to more easily devalue him later.

He's never carried his team to a championship. He didn't get them over the hump against the Thunder, and though he played really well in the playoffs this year, he didn't finish. Health is a big part of "best player" accolades. It's a big reason why Lebron gets the nod still. Kawhi is probably 3rd or 4th, if you take him over AD, KD, Curry and Lebron, then sure. I'd take him over Curry, but I've not seen AD on a good team to know what he can do. I'd take KD over Leonard even though I like Leonard more. Chosing Lebron over Kawhi is a no brainer, even if just for the team you can put around him. Who's coming to play alongside Kawhi?

By your definition, no active players have carried their teams to titles except Lebron, Dirk and Wade. Oh, and Metta World Peace if he's still playing.

And he didn't get them over the hump against the Thunder? What about that chase down of Russ in game 6 2014?

You blame him for his injury?

This post is just full of random, haphazardly strung together rants.

[YGWHI]

Health is a big part of "best player" accolades.
Good to know...Fans are thinking it's Kawhi's fault that Zaza hurt him.


Chosing Lebron over Kawhi is a no brainer, even if just for the team you can put around him. Who's coming to play alongside Kawhi?
And then, people blame Kawhi because the Spurs aren't willing to make monetary excesses to build a superteam like the Heat and the Cavs were on LeBron's days.

Anyway, Lebron over Kawhi is a no brainer because LBJ's the best player in the league since MJ.

But I don't forget that even LeBron needed Wade/Bosh and Irving/Love to win rings. He didn't win a single ring without them

If the Spurs surround Kawhi with two other superstars I'm pretty sure he'll carry his team to more titles.

I wonder why the Spurs didn't sign Irving a guy who already wanted "to play alongside Kawhi"

Because tax? Because they don't have assets to work in a trade? Because some loyalty contract? Sure... BLAME Kawhi for that.

[Blackjack]

Anyway, Lebron over Kawhi is a no brainer because LBJ's the best player in the league since MJ.

But I don't forget that even LeBron needed Wade/Bosh and Irving/Love to win rings. He didn't win a single ring without them

If the Spurs surround Kawhi with two other superstars I'm pretty sure he'll carry his team to more titles.

Agreed. You could also say move the whole Spurs franchise to the East. Kawhi could very well get to the Finals with the team he's had/has.

[YGWHI]

Agreed. You could also say move the whole Spurs franchise to the East. Kawhi could very well get to the Finals with the team he's had/has.

Exactly. Another reason why LeBron made many Finals...The East S*UCKS.

[DMC]

By your definition, no active players have carried their teams to titles except Lebron, Dirk and Wade. Oh, and Metta World Peace if he's still playing.

And he didn't get them over the hump against the Thunder? What about that chase down of Russ in game 6 2014?

You blame him for his injury?

This post is just full of random, haphazardly strung together rants.

I'm crossing out the reasons why someone would consider KL the best player in the game. You don't have to carry a team to the title to be the best player, but you could use that as a reason to consider him that. He didn't, so let's get that out of the way.

It doesn't matter why he's hurt. He plays a 48 minute game just like Lebron, Curry and KD. He twisted his ankle prior to the contact with Zaza. It's not Greg Oden's fault his knees are shit. That did prevent him from rising up the ladder however.

KL needs to put together a string of convincing performances in the playoffs to get to the next level. He's had some real convincing moments and games, but Lebron had those years ago as well. Curry is just a great 3pt shooter and, imo, shouldn't be considered with the best in the game. He's effective though.

You're not going to convince people who model their forum persona after a player that said player isn't the GOAT. I'm just adding some reality to the thread. You can like whomever you want and caveat your way to whatever suits you.

If you think KL's chasedown of Russ got them over the hump, you're ignoring Manu's clutch shot, Tim's solid screen, the other factors in the game as well. Kawhi's block was big, but do you really think that makes him the best player in the game? Does Manu get that nod this season because of the Harden block?

[RD2191]

Leonard isn't the best player in the NBA. Setting these false narratives just serves to more easily devalue him later.

He's never carried his team to a championship. He didn't get them over the hump against the Thunder, and though he played really well in the playoffs this year, he didn't finish. Health is a big part of "best player" accolades. It's a big reason why Lebron gets the nod still. Kawhi is probably 3rd or 4th, if you take him over AD, KD, Curry and Lebron, then sure. I'd take him over Curry, but I've not seen AD on a good team to know what he can do. I'd take KD over Leonard even though I like Leonard more. Chosing Lebron over Kawhi is a no brainer, even if just for the team you can put around him. Who's coming to play alongside Kawhi?

LeBron James had to form a superteam to win a title. KD had to join a record winning team to win a title. Which team on your list has carried a team to a title by themselves? LeBron? He still had Kyrie to help him this last time around.

[RD2191]

By your definition, no active players have carried their teams to titles except Lebron, Dirk and Wade. Oh, and Metta World Peace if he's still playing.

And he didn't get them over the hump against the Thunder? What about that chase down of Russ in game 6 2014?

You blame him for his injury?

This post is just full of random, haphazardly strung together rants.

DMC is trying to be cool and edgy all of a sudden. He probably just bought a convertible and frosted his tips.

[ElNono]

Lebron is the best player in the league, considering he's also the GM and coach, tbh...

Don't forget that if Lebron doesn't go supernatural a year ago and backdoor sweeps the Dubs, you don't get Raymond crying on the phone to KD to come over because they need help :cry...

I think Kawhi is on his way, but he's just not there yet, IMO...

[DMC]

LeBron James had to form a superteam to win a title. KD had to join a record winning team to win a title. Which team on your list has carried a team to a title by themselves? LeBron? He still had Kyrie to help him this last time around.

2013 LJ averaged 25/11/7/2(st) in the Finals. KL averaged 14/11/1/2(st)

Sure you can say Ray Allen's 10ppg or Wade's 19/4 was the difference maker, if you're looking for bias confirmation.

2014 LJ averaged 28/8/4/2 in the Finals while KL averaged 18/6/2/1.5

2015 playoffs KL averaged 21/7 LJ averaged 30/11/9

2016 playoffs KL averaged 22/6/3/2.5 LJ averaged 26/9/8/2.3

2017 playoffs KL averaged 28/8/5 LJ averaged 32/9/8

The year Kawhi won the FMVP he wasn't the leading scorer in the playoffs or finals. He had a major impact, but he didn't "carry" the team like Tim did in seasons past. KL came closer this year to carrying the team than he ever has, and was very impressive, but he wasn't better than Lebron James or Kevin Durant. He had moments where he was better than either of them, but not on average.

You don't have to carry a great team to be a great player, but you cannot use "carried the team" when he didn't.

[DMC]

DMC is trying to be cool and edgy all of a sudden. He probably just bought a convertible and frosted his tips.

:lol

No

[ElNono]

It's not entirely Kawhi's fault either... Lebron decides how much he plays, rests, etc...

Kawhi instead has to deal with a coach that decides to throw playoff games to rest him, and rations his mins throughout the season, in detriment to his stamina and the team. It's also arguable that it doesn't work, all that mins shaving didn't prevent a freak injury from happening, nor accelerated the recovery.

[DMC]

It's not entirely Kawhi's fault either... Lebron decides how much he plays, rests, etc...

Kawhi instead has to deal with a coach that decides to throw playoff games to rest him, and rations his mins throughout the season, in detriment to his stamina and the team. It's also arguable that it doesn't work, all that mins shaving didn't prevent a freak injury from happening, nor accelerated the recovery.

I don't consider fault. It's not AD's fault that the Pelicans are shit. He's partly responsible because they all agree to contracts, and in the 2nd go round on those, they know the deal already. So though their situations aren't their faults, they do have some control over them. If KL decided being in Pop's system is what he wants, he's set his path. The ROTW looks at output though, and Lebron's dwarfs most NBA players historically.

[YGWHI]

impossible to say. You take a guy with 2 skillsets in a game that needs 2 skillsets, he can be the best when both are in play but not the best at either individually, but KL is the best defender. He's good enough on defense to push him to that level of "best 2-way player" since he also scores well.

Comparing to players supposedly better on the offensive side, Kawhi's already the best... EAT SHIT, Stephen A. Smith lovers.

892958713245552641

892961518488367104

[YGWHI]

He's had some real convincing moments and games, but Lebron had those years ago as well.
So it's not an issue about Kawhi lack of great playoffs performances because he already had those dominant moments, it's about LeBron doing it for years and years?

Then we can act like Kawhi being 25 years old and LeBron has nothing to do with this...

*Edit: he turned 26 two months ago.

[Spurtacular]

Leonard is the best player in the West and only second to Lebron. Better than Curry, Harden, and Durant. I am not sure how we have won 60 wins last season.

I don't even remember our record last season other than we got the 2 seed. If we won 60 with that far from stellar, TD-less supporting cast, Kawhi is pretty freaking awesome.

[DMC]

So it's not an issue about Kawhi lack of great playoffs performances because he already had those dominant moments, it's about LeBron doing it for years and years?

Then we can act like Kawhi being 25 years old and LeBron has nothing to do with this...

*Edit: he turned 26 two months ago.
He needs to turn those moments into series and into rings if you want to compare him to Lebron.

It doesn't matter how old the tree is. It only matters how tall it is, if you're comparing height.

[tholdren]

2013 LJ averaged 25/11/7/2(st) in the Finals. KL averaged 14/11/1/2(st)

Sure you can say Ray Allen's 10ppg or Wade's 19/4 was the difference maker, if you're looking for bias confirmation.

2014 LJ averaged 28/8/4/2 in the Finals while KL averaged 18/6/2/1.5

2015 playoffs KL averaged 21/7 LJ averaged 30/11/9

2016 playoffs KL averaged 22/6/3/2.5 LJ averaged 26/9/8/2.3

2017 playoffs KL averaged 28/8/5 LJ averaged 32/9/8

The year Kawhi won the FMVP he wasn't the leading scorer in the playoffs or finals. He had a major impact, but he didn't "carry" the team like Tim did in seasons past. KL came closer this year to carrying the team than he ever has, and was very impressive, but he wasn't better than Lebron James or Kevin Durant. He had moments where he was better than either of them, but not on average.

You don't have to carry a great team to be a great player, but you cannot use "carried the team" when he didn't.

Kl finals mvp was a media nba fix to do just what it has done. Bring someone who will surpass lebum as the best in the nba. Kl is a great player.

Similarly lebums pre miami days in cleveland was much more impressive that anything he has done. Had he stayed in cleveland he most likely would be an easy 2 or at least rival mj in goat. He lost out on goat with the decision. And probably will go down a peg or two as most young fans will directly place superteams and backroom deals and warriors as a lebum creation. As they should. Lebum is fake, all lies.

[DMC]

Kl finals mvp was a media nba fix to do just what it has done. Bring someone who will surpass lebum as the best in the nba. Kl is a great player.

Similarly lebums pre miami days in cleveland was much more impressive that anything he has done. Had he stayed in cleveland he most likely would be an easy 2 or at least rival mj in goat. He lost out on goat with the decision. And probably will go down a peg or two as most young fans will directly place superteams and backroom deals and warriors as a lebum creation. As they should. Lebum is fake, all lies.

Lebron would never have rivaled MJ as long as he was ringless.

You cannot take anyone seriously when they use derogatory nicknames for their subject matter.

[tholdren]

Lebron would never have rivaled MJ as long as he was ringless.

You cannot take anyone seriously when they use derogatory nicknames for their subject matter.

Not true.

[TD 21]

:lmao At Smith, pretending Davis and Leonard have had equal opportunity to score throughout their careers.

Davis' career usage rate and minutes per game: 27.8 / 34.4

Leonard's career usage rate and minutes per game: 22.4 / 30.5.

I know he has a job because of his shtick and not his expertise, but still, ESPN should be embarrassed at this level of "analysis" in '17.



2013 LJ averaged 25/11/7/2(st) in the Finals. KL averaged 14/11/1/2(st)

Sure you can say Ray Allen's 10ppg or Wade's 19/4 was the difference maker, if you're looking for bias confirmation.

2014 LJ averaged 28/8/4/2 in the Finals while KL averaged 18/6/2/1.5

2015 playoffs KL averaged 21/7 LJ averaged 30/11/9

2016 playoffs KL averaged 22/6/3/2.5 LJ averaged 26/9/8/2.3

2017 playoffs KL averaged 28/8/5 LJ averaged 32/9/8

The year Kawhi won the FMVP he wasn't the leading scorer in the playoffs or finals. He had a major impact, but he didn't "carry" the team like Tim did in seasons past. KL came closer this year to carrying the team than he ever has, and was very impressive, but he wasn't better than Lebron James or Kevin Durant. He had moments where he was better than either of them, but not on average.

You don't have to carry a great team to be a great player, but you cannot use "carried the team" when he didn't.

:lmao There's no surer sign of limited basketball knowledge than spouting antiquated counting stats and providing no context with them. It never ceases to amaze me how many people in general and Spurs fans specifically think everyone has equal opportunity and mindset to accumulate them in this sport.

James' usage rate and minutes per game in . . .

- '14 Finals: 32.9 / 37.8
- '15 playoffs: 37.6 / 42.2
- '16 playoffs: 30.7 / 39.1
- '17 playoffs: 31.6 / 41.3

Leonard's usage rate and minutes per game in . . .

- '14 Finals: 20.5 / 33.4
- '15 playoffs: 25 / 35.7
- '16 playoffs: 28.1 / 33.9
- '17 playoffs: 28.2 / 35.8

That's not to say James wasn't indisputably better throughout most of this and isn't still, but it's not because of his averages. It's because he's in another universe in the most important area of the sport (play making) and is either better or at least relatively close in virtually everything else.

Leonard was no worse than the co-best player in the '17 playoffs, with James.

[YGWHI]

He needs to turn those moments into series and into rings if you want to compare him to Lebron.

It doesn't matter how old the tree is. It only matters how tall it is, if you're comparing height.

Years as pro, matters.

LeBron at Kawhi's age was called LeChoke many times in playoffs... But who would have thought that LeBron with more experience and better teammates arround him would make the difference?

I've said before, LeBron needed other two stars to turn great moments "into series and rings."

But sure, these things "don't matter because the tree is..."

[DMC]

Years as pro, matters.

LeBron at Kawhi's age was called LeChoke many times in playoffs... But who would have thought that LeBron with more experience and better teammates arround him would make the difference?

I've said before, LeBron needed other two stars to turn great moments "into series and rings."

But sure, these things "don't matter because the tree is..."

Who cares what he was called? No one calls Kawhi a choker because he's not been put in clutch situations until recently. He choked at the FT line, could have won a ring if he hit it. No one called him a choker because he was a role player at the time.

Kawhi was drafted onto a team with 3 HOFers and a HOF coach.

KL is a great player, getting better as well. He's not as good as Lebron, I don't think he can get that good due to physical limitations and the team he plays for. Lebron is considered better than Tim Duncan, so...

[DMC]

:lmao At Smith, pretending Davis and Leonard have had equal opportunity to score throughout their careers.

Davis' career usage rate and minutes per game: 27.8 / 34.4

Leonard's career usage rate and minutes per game: 22.4 / 30.5.

I know he has a job because of his shtick and not his expertise, but still, ESPN should be embarrassed at this level of "analysis" in '17.




:lmao There's no surer sign of limited basketball knowledge than spouting antiquated counting stats and providing no context with them. It never ceases to amaze me how many people in general and Spurs fans specifically think everyone has equal opportunity and mindset to accumulate them in this sport.

James' usage rate and minutes per game in . . .

- '14 Finals: 32.9 / 37.8
- '15 playoffs: 37.6 / 42.2
- '16 playoffs: 30.7 / 39.1
- '17 playoffs: 31.6 / 41.3

Leonard's usage rate and minutes per game in . . .

- '14 Finals: 20.5 / 33.4
- '15 playoffs: 25 / 35.7
- '16 playoffs: 28.1 / 33.9
- '17 playoffs: 28.2 / 35.8

That's not to say James wasn't indisputably better throughout most of this and isn't still, but it's not because of his averages. It's because he's in another universe in the most important area of the sport (play making) and is either better or at least relatively close in virtually everything else.

Leonard was no worse than the co-best player in the '17 playoffs, with James.

Yet neither of them have a ring to show for it. I'd say KD was the best player in the 2017 playoffs. He won.

[DMC]

Not true.

Sure it is. Name one player who was ever compared to Jordan without ever having won a ring. Just one.

[tholdren]

Sure it is. Name one player who was ever compared to Jordan without ever having won a ring. Just one.

Lol. Was durant better than horry without a ring? How about barkely? I win

[DMC]

Sure it is. Name one player who was ever compared to Jordan without ever having won a ring. Just one.


Lol. Was durant better than horry without a ring? How about barkely? I win

This isn't about Durant. This is about comparing players to the GOAT. You cannot be in the GOAT discussion without a ring. Your goalpost move is duly noted however.

[TD 21]

Yet neither of them have a ring to show for it. I'd say KD was the best player in the 2017 playoffs. He won.

:lmao At the rings argument (in this case, the current one, since the other two have them too), once again provided without context.

If either swapped places with Durant, they'd be the reigning champion right now too. That has no bearing on level of play though, since it was men against boys and they'd have won no matter how he played. By virtually every metric, he was worse than either in the '17 playoffs. He upped his play in the Finals, but has a relatively (for a player of his caliber) minimal offensive load and plays within' pristine and unprecedented spacing.

[Ice009]

Who cares what he was called? No one calls Kawhi a choker because he's not been put in clutch situations until recently. He choked at the FT line, could have won a ring if he hit it. No one called him a choker because he was a role player at the time.

Kawhi was drafted onto a team with 3 HOFers and a HOF coach.

KL is a great player, getting better as well. He's not as good as Lebron, I don't think he can get that good due to physical limitations and the team he plays for. Lebron is considered better than Tim Duncan, so...

He's not considered better than TD, at least, not by me.

Also, I'm not sure if Kawhi can get to Lebron's best (unless he improves his play making), but I do think Kawhi can still be the best player in the league. You don't have to be the best play maker in the NBA to be the best player on the planet.

[Blackjack]

He's not considered better than TD, at least, not by me.

Also, I'm not sure if Kawhi can get to Lebron's best (unless he improves his play making), but I do think Kawhi can still be the best player in the league. You don't have to be the best play maker in the NBA to be the best player on the planet.

Jordan certainly wasn't. And :tu

[DMC]

:lmao At the rings argument (in this case, the current one, since the other two have them too), once again provided without context.

They didn't win a ring in 2017. Context is everything.


If either swapped places with Durant, they'd be the reigning champion right now too. That has no bearing on level of play though, since it was men against boys and they'd have won no matter how he played. By virtually every metric, he was worse than either in the '17 playoffs. He upped his play in the Finals, but has a relatively (for a player of his caliber) minimal offensive load and plays within' pristine and unprecedented spacing.
They didn't. Go to that parallel universe and send video proof.

[DMC]

He's not considered better than TD, at least, not by me.

Also, I'm not sure if Kawhi can get to Lebron's best (unless he improves his play making), but I do think Kawhi can still be the best player in the league. You don't have to be the best play maker in the NBA to be the best player on the planet.

Of course Spurs fans don't consider a Lebron better than Duncan. They don't mind citing 12 from SI and ESPN but scoff when that rating affects their guy.

I doubt any serious NBA pundit would rank Lebron lower than Duncan on the all time list.

Kawhi can become the best player on the planet if the other players get worse or get more help to dilute their contributions.

[ElNono]

I don't consider fault. It's not AD's fault that the Pelicans are shit. He's partly responsible because they all agree to contracts, and in the 2nd go round on those, they know the deal already. So though their situations aren't their faults, they do have some control over them. If KL decided being in Pop's system is what he wants, he's set his path. The ROTW looks at output though, and Lebron's dwarfs most NBA players historically.

Context matters in these discussions, as you say... I'm fairly confident that if Kawhi had the latitude Lebron has as far as controlling his minutes, situations, etc, he likely would have more gaudy stats, which are always salient in these kind of discussions...

There's teams like the Dubs where the whole team is helping a guy reach an individual stat (ie: triple double), and that triggers the perception said player is an all-star, gets the media banter going, etc...

[ElNono]

If anything, Duncan was so good in his prime, he stood out statistically on an environment that wasn't helping him stand out... although, it was a different game then, and we relied on our star way more...

[SAGirl]

It's not entirely Kawhi's fault either... Lebron decides how much he plays, rests, etc...

Kawhi instead has to deal with a coach that decides to throw playoff games to rest him, and rations his mins throughout the season, in detriment to his stamina and the team. It's also arguable that it doesn't work, all that mins shaving didn't prevent a freak injury from happening, nor accelerated the recovery.
Great point...

[Ice009]

Of course Spurs fans don't consider a Lebron better than Duncan. They don't mind citing 12 from SI and ESPN but scoff when that rating affects their guy.

I doubt any serious NBA pundit would rank Lebron lower than Duncan on the all time list.

Kawhi can become the best player on the planet if the other players get worse or get more help to dilute their contributions.

Who is better than Kawhi? Only Lebron IMO. All those other guys, if you want them, you can have them. I'll take Kawhi over all of them. He doesn't need them to get worse or for them to get more help to become the best player in the league - that's ridiculous. I think he will be there at the end of this upcoming season.

[DMC]

Who is better than Kawhi? Only Lebron IMO. All those other guys, if you want them, you can have them. I'll take Kawhi over all of them. He doesn't need them to get worse or for them to get more help to become the best player in the league - that's ridiculous. I think he will be there at the end of this upcoming season.

I'd take Kawhi because I like him better, win or lose. From a pure basketball standpoint, KD is better.

[Ice009]

I'd take Kawhi because I like him better, win or lose. From a pure basketball standpoint, KD is better.

I like Kawhi's overall game over KD's. KD might be a better offensive player (as of now), but I'd take Kawhi over him because I think Kawhi is just a better overall player.

[UZER]

It's not entirely Kawhi's fault either... Lebron decides how much he plays, rests, etc...

Kawhi instead has to deal with a coach that decides to throw playoff games to rest him, and rations his mins throughout the season, in detriment to his stamina and the team. It's also arguable that it doesn't work, all that mins shaving didn't prevent a freak injury from happening, nor accelerated the recovery.

Because everyone has to get over himself...except Pop.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Kawhi gotta ask Jordan CIJON

[tholdren]

I'd take Kawhi because I like him better, win or lose. From a pure basketball standpoint, KD is better.

Idiot alert

[DMC]

Idiot alert

Alert not required, your name was all I needed.

[tholdren]

Alert not required, your name was all I needed.

If you think kd is better than kl youre a retard. Its that simple.

[DMC]

If you think kd is better than kl youre a retard. Its that simple.

USA Today lists KL at 4th overall

SI lists him at 6th overall

ESPN has him at 6th overall

All three of these have KD at 2nd overall.

These pundits have Curry and CP3 over Kawhi.

Must be a lot of retarded pundits. If they were only homers they'd see the light.

[Atl Spur]

USA Today lists KL at 4th overall

SI lists him at 6th overall

ESPN has him at 6th overall

All three of these have KD at 2nd overall.

These pundits have Curry and CP3 over Kawhi.

Must be a lot of retarded pundits. If they were only homers they'd see the light.

If anyone says he's the sixth best player........ they are full of crap! Popularity contest is what those clowns are on!!

[bic50]

USA Today lists KL at 4th overall

SI lists him at 6th overall

ESPN has him at 6th overall

All three of these have KD at 2nd overall.

These pundits have Curry and CP3 over Kawhi.

Must be a lot of retarded pundits. If they were only homers they'd see the light.
Yes they are retarded pundits.

[KDKSpurs24]

If anyone says he's the sixth best player........ they are full of crap! Popularity contest is what those clowns are on!!
I think that list was months ago.. the new list will be released close to the start of the season and I'm very sure that he will be no lower than 4 on every list.

[spurs10]

That's why Michael Jordan, someone who few argued wasn't the best in the game in his time, is saying what he's saying about Kawhi. It's like what Pop says why don't the call the MVP the 'MVOP?' Pundits notwithstanding the idea of Kawhi being the 6th best "two way player" is not something many would agree with. Jordan says he's the "best" and he has a wee bit more knowledge about what it takes. Kevin Durant looked great, once he joined a 73 win team.

[DMC]

If anyone says he's the sixth best player........ they are full of crap! Popularity contest is what those clowns are on!!

I wouldn't put him at 6th, but the best I found was 4th. I rank him 3rd which is obviously generous considering. Saying he's 2nd best is just homerism, and fiercely proud of it too...

[DMC]

If anyone says he's the sixth best player........ they are full of crap! Popularity contest is what those clowns are on!!


Yes they are retarded pundits.

:lol sure

[tholdren]

USA Today lists KL at 4th overall

SI lists him at 6th overall

ESPN has him at 6th overall

All three of these have KD at 2nd overall.

These pundits have Curry and CP3 over Kawhi.

Must be a lot of retarded pundits. If they were only homers they'd see the light.

Ironic how these players probably have more endorsements and jersey sales. Lol at you for using media subjectivity as fact. No need to respond

[DMC]

Ironic how these players probably have more endorsements and jersey sales. Lol at you for using media subjectivity as fact. No need to respond

Westbrook and Irving are ahead of KL in jersey sales, but not in the rankings. Steph is number 1 in jersey sales, but 3rd on most rankings.

Great logic, you really worked that one out.

[spurs10]

I wouldn't put him at 6th, but the best I found was 4th. I rank him 3rd which is obviously generous considering. Saying he's 2nd best is just homerism, and fiercely proud of it too... What any of the pundits say and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee. I wouldn't exactly call Michael Jordan a homer though. :lol

I believe he said this because of the MVP race where only Westbrook and Harden came into the discussion. All that being said, if you play for the Spurs your numbers will suffer because Pop doesn't care about individual accolades at the cost of winning and health.

[DMC]

What any of the pundits say and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee. I wouldn't exactly call Michael Jordan a homer though. :lol

Pundits are pundits. We cite rankings from the same pundits, All NBA team votes from the same pundits.. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Mike qualified with "two way". The argument here is about best player in the game. Mike also picks Kobe over Lebron. Mike's comments are often self-serving.


I believe he said this because of the MVP race where only Westbrook and Harden came into the discussion. All that being said, if you play for the Spurs your numbers will suffer because Pop doesn't care about individual accolades at the cost of winning and health.
Mike said it because someone asked if Kawhi could score on Kawhi.

[spurs10]

Pundits are pundits. We cite rankings from the same pundits, All NBA team votes from the same pundits.. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Mike qualified with "two way". The argument here is about best player in the game. Mike also picks Kobe over Lebron. Mike's comments are often self-serving.

Mike said it because someone asked if Kawhi could score on Kawhi. I'm with you in the "pundits are pundits" and certainly like it when they speak highly of my guys. Thanks for clarifying why he made that statement in the first place. It's just a personal thing with me, but distenquishing between 'best' and 'best two-way' player is something I find strange in a game like basketball. Although I certainly understand how being good on either side of the ball is not mutually exclusive. It just seem like 'pundits' and people voting on things like MVP should consider both.

Also get the "cannot have your cake and eat it too" concept. I like to say 'I don't care about what critics say......unless of course they are saying wonderful things about whatever I'm interested in.'

[tholdren]

Westbrook and Irving are ahead of KL in jersey sales, but not in the rankings. Steph is number 1 in jersey sales, but 3rd on most rankings.

Great logic, you really worked that one out.

Youre just not all there, are you..?

[DMC]

I'm with you in the "pundits are pundits" and certainly like it when they speak highly of my guys. Thanks for clarifying why he made that statement in the first place. It's just a personal thing with me, but distenquishing between 'best' and 'best two-way' player is something I find strange in a game like basketball. Although I certainly understand how being good on either side of the ball is not mutually exclusive. It just seem like 'pundits' and people voting on things like MVP should consider both.

Also get the "cannot have your cake and eat it too" concept. I like to say 'I don't care about what critics say......unless of course they are saying wonderful things about whatever I'm interested in.'

It is strange, but it's as much a slight on the one way player as it is on the two way player. Given the choice, I'd take the latter as a compliment and the former as "lacking". The one way player has to be so good at the one thing they do well that they influence the game even more than the two way player. I guess it's like a QB who can run as well. Most great QBs couldn't run for shit, but they were so good at passing and running the offense that they weren't considered deficient for not being great running QBs.

[DMC]

Youre just not all there, are you..?

You try too hard with your shitty troll schtick, Thomas.

[tholdren]

You try too hard with your shitty troll schtick, Thomas.
Says the guy who mimicks what the media says...

[spurs10]

The one way player has to be so good at the one thing they do well that they influence the game even more than the two way player.
Yep, like Bruce.

[DMC]

Says the guy who mimicks what the media says...

I cite, I don't mimic.

[tholdren]

Pundits are pundits. We cite rankings from the same pundits, All NBA team votes from the same pundits.. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Mike qualified with "two way". The argument here is about best player in the game. Mike also picks Kobe over Lebron. Mike's comments are often self-serving.

Mike said it because someone asked if Kawhi could score on Kawhi.

And he picked kobe because of other aspects that made him great, which obviously, and again, you get influenced by current media hype. Fail all around jim

[DMC]

And he picked kobe because of other aspects that made him great, which obviously, and again, you get influenced by current media hype. Fail all around jim

Current media hype?

:lol

Show me where KL was ranked higher in years past.

[YGWHI]

I think that list was months ago.. The new list will be released close to the start of the season and I'm very sure that he will be no lower than 4 on every list.

Agree. The list was made BEFORE last season started but we can't let facts ruin dishonest takes. Why should someone mention these aren't current rankings? After all, it's not like Kawhi had an amazing, MVP-caliber season in 2016-17, to ascend on that list...

[tholdren]

Current media hype?

:lol

Show me where KL was ranked higher in years past.

Kevin durant.... its okay.

[Ice009]

Current media hype?

:lol

Show me where KL was ranked higher in years past.

After the 2016/2017 season he should be ranked no lower than 3rd on anyone's list. If he's ranked lower than that, it's an invalid list.

[Phenomanul]

After the 2016/2017 season he should be ranked no lower than 3rd on anyone's list. If he's ranked lower than that, it's an invalid list.

^this tbh...

[DMC]

After the 2016/2017 season he should be ranked no lower than 3rd on anyone's list. If he's ranked lower than that, it's an invalid list.

Which is where I rank him.

[DMC]

Kevin durant.... its okay.

KD was ranked 2nd in the NBA by SI in 2016

KL was 10th.

[tholdren]

KD was ranked 2nd in the NBA by SI in 2016

KL was 10th.

And those were both false. Thanks for proving the point.

[DMC]

And those were both false. Thanks for proving the point.

Get your pom poms and go sit in the corner. We're talking basketball up in here.

[bic50]

:lol sure
They are

[DMC]

They are

So experts are retarded because they disagree with laymen?

[TheDoctor]

Jordan Calls Kawhi "Best 2-Way Player in the Game"

I agree w/ MJ and OP. 2nd best player at worst tbh

[tholdren]

So experts are retarded because they disagree with laymen?

Youre an idiot if you think media qualify as experts. Too dumb for your own good tbh

[DMC]

Youre an idiot if you think media qualify as experts. Too dumb for your own good tbh

Who are the experts?

[spurs10]

Who are the experts? I thing Greg Popovich and Michael Jordan might highly resemble those remarks.

[DMC]

I thing Greg Popovich and Michael Jordan might highly resemble those remarks.

Kwame Brown say hi

[therealtruth]

I think Kawhi's play in the WCF as short as it was says everything. Durant didn't start to make shots till he went down. Meanwhile Kawhi's scoring was helping the Spurs control the pace. It's just unfortunate he went down but I think next year he will make up for it.

[bic50]

Who are the experts?
Penny hardaway

[DMC]

Penny hardaway

:lol this shit