Dennis Rodman: “Popovich, he hated me”

[daslicer]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/12/dennis-rodman-popovich-he-hated-me/

[sananspursfan21]

Rodman and Pop were an odd fit. Playing wise, Rodman was everything Pop could have wanted. Personality wise, he was everything Pop was against. It's not often that you get a player like that. Generally, flashy play comes with a flashy personality. Ol' Denny was a real enigma.

[dabom]

Pop wanted a stat padding whore. :lmao

[Mr. Body]

Rodman freelancing for rebounds and not guarding his man.

[Chillen]

Rodman says:

And I the same guy we won 68 damn games? Am I that same guy, but you guys don’t like me?” Rodman said. “So I said, ‘OK, trade me,'” he said. “They traded me to the damn Bulls.”

Yeah they traded you to the damn Bulls with MJ, Scottie, Kukoc, Kerr and Harper and Phil Jackson as your head coach and you won 3 NBA titles, it worked out I'd say. Damn is a little harsh word to use after all that success.

[BSfromTX]

Rodman and Pop were an odd fit. Playing wise, Rodman was everything Pop could have wanted. Personality wise, he was everything Pop was against. It's not often that you get a player like that. Generally, flashy play comes with a flashy personality. Ol' Denny was a real enigma.

so true...

[Capt Bringdown]

Rodman on the Bulls was a perfect fit. Why the fuck you would want to make a team like MJ's Bulls stronger?

[daslicer]

Rodman says:


Yeah they traded you to the damn Bulls with MJ, Scottie, Kukoc, Kerr and Harper and Phil Jackson as your head coach and you won 3 NBA titles, it worked out I'd say. Damn is a little harsh word to use after all that success.

I agree. I don't get Dennis still holding on to his hatred for the Spurs. SA is the place where he became an icon before he got to SA he was just a normal guy that nobody cared about. It was in SA where he became the guy with the colored hair and that tattoos which resulted in him becoming a celebrity. The Spurs trading him to the bulls allowed him to win 3 more titles and catapulted him to being a household name. Spurs also benefited in the long run by ending up with Duncan. This is a situation where both sides were much better off after being split. Dennis holding on to his hatred shows that he's petty.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Rodman and Pop were an odd fit. Playing wise, Rodman was everything Pop could have wanted. Personality wise, he was everything Pop was against. It's not often that you get a player like that. Generally, flashy play comes with a flashy personality. Ol' Denny was a real enigma.

Shawn Marion was a similar player to Rodman, the closest we had since him but now he's gone too

[tholdren]

Lets not forget rodmans consistent give ups when shit didnt work out. On his pouting, he was softer than david.

[Phenomanul]

Rodman continues being an "against the grain" personality...

I was in Miami (technically in Aventura) in 2015 for a work conference... Rodman showed up to the hotel where the conference was held (Turnberry Isle), went directly to the bar at 11:00 AM (and proceeded to drink away)... He literally reeked of piss and booze. But none of the employees dared to say anything or cause a commotion.

[Russ]

Rodman was a bullshitter. He said he didn't drink at all, but he was a drunk.

He said money didn't matter to him, but it was the only thing that mattered -- the reason that he left.

He was a great (although incomplete) basketball player. Give him credit for that, but not much more.

[SPURt]

Who cares what Kim Jong Un's gimp says?

[DMC]

Going against the grain is so "with the grain" these days. Rodman was a pioneer. Never see another NBA bruiser like him show up in a wedding dress.

[SPURt]

Going against the grain is so "with the grain" these days. Rodman was a pioneer. Never see another NBA bruiser like him show up in a wedding dress.
Let's give Draymond a chance. Once he feels a little more comfortable wearing a dress indoors I'm sure he'll venture out eventually.

[DJR210]

Don't you guys talk badly about Kim Jong's homeboy

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Pop wanted a stat padding whore. :lmao

you mean TP?

[Slippy]

I agree. I don't get Dennis still holding on to his hatred for the Spurs. SA is the place where he became an icon before he got to SA he was just a normal guy that nobody cared about. It was in SA where he became the guy with the colored hair and that tattoos which resulted in him becoming a celebrity. The Spurs trading him to the bulls allowed him to win 3 more titles and catapulted him to being a household name. Spurs also benefited in the long run by ending up with Duncan. This is a situation where both sides were much better off after being split. Dennis holding on to his hatred shows that he's petty.

Dating Madonna at that time helped build his celebrity status.

[SASdynasty!]

you mean TP?
If by stat-padding you mean closing out the 4th quarter of G5 in the 2014 Finals so they didn't choke away another 4th quarter double-digit lead like the year before, then I guess so. Or if you mean dropping 34 in G7 against the Mavs, yah. Or maybe you mean him dropping 27 on Conley in G6 this year on 79% shooting to close out the series. Or countless other clutch performances in the playoffs.

[cd98]

Spurs were a more disciplinary team back then. They let Rod Strickland walk even though he was one of the best point guards in the league because he was also a head case that didn't buy into a military team in a military town. They let a lot of talent walk bc of their baggage. But Pop struck gold when he got good character guys like Tim, Manu, Tony (aside from sexting teammates' wives), and Bowen...talented players with good character. Baggage guys even now don't last long. Sure the Rodman trade was lopsided (though Perdue was an underrated player), but Spurs have won the right way with good guys, which counts for something.

[Spurtacular]

Pop really shitty at reading the room. You don't take on DR unless you're willing to have tolerance.

[Spurtacular]

Bla bla

What, they banned your ass for like a whole day? Well, that'll teach you to spam the joint up with your faggoty shit. Well, before your bitch ass thread was erased, I gave you some advice. :lmao


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO6S8c4Wxbk

[daslicer]

Dating Madonna at that time helped build his celebrity status.

He doesn't get Madonna's attention if he doesn't dye his hair. He dyed his hair in SA randomly when he saw a barber who gave him that idea. So SA played a huge role in him becoming a celebrity.

[dabom]

What, they banned your ass for like a whole day? Well, that'll teach you to spam the joint up with your faggoty shit. Well, before your bitch ass thread was erased, I gave you some advice. :lmao


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO6S8c4Wxbk

How about you try it once. Nvm. You probably get banned in one second. :lmao

[Hank Scorpio]

With good reason.

[Spurtacular]

How about you try it once. Nvm. You probably get banned in one second. :lmao

Dude, you burned yourself, moron.

[ElNono]

Outspoken black men, tbh... we know how Pop deals with them... If he was Euro or Mexican he would still be playing for the Spurs, tbh...

[Spurtacular]

Outspoken black men, tbh... we know how Pop deals with them... If he was Euro or Mexican he would still be playing for the Spurs, tbh...

"Outspoken" :lmao DR was hardly stable. I still blame Pop though, for not accepting that DR had an IQ of about 60 and the emotional stability of a rabid animal.

[Capt Bringdown]

Spurs were a more disciplinary team back then. They let Rod Strickland walk even though he was one of the best point guards in the league because he was also a head case that didn't buy into a military team in a military town. They let a lot of talent walk bc of their baggage. But Pop struck gold when he got good character guys like Tim, Manu, Tony (aside from sexting teammates' wives), and Bowen...talented players with good character. Baggage guys even now don't last long. Sure the Rodman trade was lopsided (though Perdue was an underrated player), but Spurs have won the right way with good guys, which counts for something.

As I recall, didn't the Spurs literally let Strickland walk, as in they got nothing for him? He was a good fit here (didn't he do something moronic like get injured in a club fight during the playoffs?), but he had trade value.

[Capt Bringdown]

Rodman retired with 5 rings. That's not an accident. He was a special player.
It might be said that other coaches were able to harness Rodman's talents, whilst Pop's ego came first...

[spurs10]

Outspoken black men, tbh... we know how Pop deals with them... If he was Euro or Mexican he would still be playing for the Spurs, tbh... :stirpot:

[daslicer]

Rodman retired with 5 rings. That's not an accident. He was a special player.
It might be said that other coaches were able to harness Rodman's talents, whilst Pop's ego came first...

Pop didn't coach Rodman. Pop was the GM at the time and Bob Hill was the coach. Judging by the previous post in which you questioned the Spurs trading Rodman to the Bulls shows you must have been really young around that time. Rodman was a talented player but was super toxic during his time with the spurs. He was so toxic that the spurs could not find anybody willing to trade for him outside of the bulls. That's how bad his reputation had become throughout league circles for all the antics he pulled during the '94-'95 season. Rodman lucked out that the Bulls were desperate for a PF after losing to the Magic. If the bulls had not taken him then his career would have ended earlier. Rodman is in the mold of Jr Smith-Artest type of player which is he can only function playing with the best player and best team in the league.

[DMC]

It's ok to fuck your teammate's wife as long as you don't try to wear her clothes.

[james evans]

Rodman and Pop were an odd fit. Playing wise, Rodman was everything Pop could have wanted. Personality wise, he was everything Pop was against. It's not often that you get a player like that. Generally, flashy play comes with a flashy personality. Ol' Denny was a real enigma.
Popovich hates anyone he can't control. There is nothing much to read into really. You can be the best player in the league, if you don't submit to him 100%, he doesn't want to fuck with you. And as was posted, Pop never coached Roadman, but was the GM. All of these Lebron and Kobe fans taking about, "I wish Kobe/Lebron played for Popovich" hahahah. yeah right. That shit wouldn't last 1 month.

[UZER]

Popovich hates anyone he can't control. There is nothing much to read into really. You can be the best player in the league, if you don't submit to him 100%, he doesn't want to fuck with you. And as was posted, Pop never coached Roadman, but was the GM. All of these Lebron and Kobe fans taking about, "I wish Kobe/Lebron played for Popovich" hahahah. yeah right. That shit wouldn't last 1 month.

And as he's gotten older it's only getting worse. I can't wait for him to be gone. He's was great once, but he's gone senile and is just a caricature of what he used to be.

[sananspursfan21]

Popovich hates anyone he can't control. There is nothing much to read into really. You can be the best player in the league, if you don't submit to him 100%, he doesn't want to fuck with you. And as was posted, Pop never coached Roadman, but was the GM. All of these Lebron and Kobe fans taking about, "I wish Kobe/Lebron played for Popovich" hahahah. yeah right. That shit wouldn't last 1 month.


https://media.giphy.com/media/QWaSVX9FizaxO/giphy.gif

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Rodman disgraced himself in that Houston series. Getting rid of his ass was the right thing.

[wildbill2u]

I lost all respect for Rodman by watching him play. One of his signatures was going under a shooter (submarining) to take him out of the play. Although it was done frequently back in the day, usually by suspect marginal players, it was a tactic universally condemned by players because of the potential to end a players career. Spur fans got a look at this tactic when Kwahi went down in the finals as the result of a similar foul by Zaza.

And who can forget (as apparently some have) his refusal to go back into a playoff game. Whatever his complaint about the coach or the team, he hadn't earned that right on the Spurs. His entire tenure seemed to be his apotheosis into the Dennis Rodman that became a monument to his own ego.

[peacemaker885]

No Pop, no rings.

Rodman - just go back to North Korea and stay there.

[superbigtime]

Rodman is obviously an insecure fragile egomaniac bitch. fuck him. Pop likely developed his distaste for ego driven moronic players because of this fool and his antics.

[Capt Bringdown]

Pop didn't coach Rodman. Pop was the GM at the time and Bob Hill was the coach. Judging by the previous post in which you questioned the Spurs trading Rodman to the Bulls shows you must have been really young around that time. Rodman was a talented player but was super toxic during his time with the spurs. He was so toxic that the spurs could not find anybody willing to trade for him outside of the bulls. That's how bad his reputation had become throughout league circles for all the antics he pulled during the '94-'95 season. Rodman lucked out that the Bulls were desperate for a PF after losing to the Magic. If the bulls had not taken him then his career would have ended earlier. Rodman is in the mold of Jr Smith-Artest type of player which is he can only function playing with the best player and best team in the league.

Pop calls the shots, it is his organization. It was inexcusable to gift Rodman to Phil Jackson - thought so then and now. Rodman was damaged goods at the time, but you don't give him to MJ and PJ to play around with, ffs.
I think there's a lot of shittyness to go around. Bob Hill, for example. Yes, he couldn't get handle Rodman, but in truth he couldn't handle anyone. He's a loser.
And unlike Artest, Rodman knew how to dial it in when it counted.
Yes, Rodman was a whackjob & couldn't fit in with the Spurs rigid culture.
However, when Rodman was engaged and motivated, the Spurs were fucking invincible.

[Capt Bringdown]

Sucks to remember all the shitty coaches the Spurs have had. Fucking Bob Hill...LOL, Jerry Tarkanian. John Lucas, bhahah ahahah.
If were talking about assholes who have been associated with the Spurs, these guys take the cake.

[Mikeanaro]

Pop calls the shots, it is his organization. It was inexcusable to gift Rodman to Phil Jackson - thought so then and now. Rodman was damaged goods at the time, but you don't give him to MJ and PJ to play around with, ffs.
I think there's a lot of shittyness to go around. Bob Hill, for example. Yes, he couldn't get handle Rodman, but in truth he couldn't handle anyone. He's a loser.
And unlike Artest, Rodman knew how to dial it in when it counted.
Yes, Rodman was a whackjob & couldn't fit in with the Spurs rigid culture.
However, when Rodman was engaged and motivated, the Spurs were fucking invincible.
In the end Bulls would probably have won those 3 rings without Rodman, they won 3 before him Bulls were stacked so it wasnt a big deal.

[daslicer]

Pop calls the shots, it is his organization. It was inexcusable to gift Rodman to Phil Jackson - thought so then and now. Rodman was damaged goods at the time, but you don't give him to MJ and PJ to play around with, ffs.
I think there's a lot of shittyness to go around. Bob Hill, for example. Yes, he couldn't get handle Rodman, but in truth he couldn't handle anyone. He's a loser.
And unlike Artest, Rodman knew how to dial it in when it counted.
Yes, Rodman was a whackjob & couldn't fit in with the Spurs rigid culture.
However, when Rodman was engaged and motivated, the Spurs were fucking invincible.

Rodman was toxic Pop had no choice to trade him. Rodman did not want to be in SA after the '95 playoffs was over and even stated it in an interview after the spurs got eliminated. Rodman outside of the bulls and pistons could not exist anywhere else. He worked out with the Pistons because he looked at them as a surrogate family. He worked out with the bulls because he knew he couldn't screw up playing with the GOAT or that would be the end of him. I disagree with you when you said Rodman could dial it in when it counted unlike Artest. He's no different than Artest in the sense he needs to be on a championship team with a HOF coach and HOFERS for him to function properly. Rodman flamed out in Detroit once Chuck Daily left, and flamed out in LA and Dallas.

I hated the the Rodman trade at the time when he got traded to the bulls but even I understood back then the Spurs were in a lose lose situation. Nobody wanted to touch Rodman outside of the bulls. This was not like a Gasol trade where the Spurs could have done better. You are upset at the Spurs traded him to the Bulls but what else could they have done back then?

[daslicer]

In the end Bulls would probably have won those 3 rings without Rodman, they won 3 before him Bulls were stacked so it wasnt a big deal.

Pretty much this. The bulls were on the verge of signing Jayson Williams who was also a great rebounder who averaged a double double back then. MJ was recruiting him hard during the summer of '95 and according to an interview with Jayson he was going to sign with the bulls had the Rodman trade not happened.

[YGWHI]

Rodman was toxic Pop had no choice to trade him.
Agree. At that point, the trade was a necessary move.

But I still wonder how Pop would have dealt with high personality-egomaniacs, like Kobe, Shaq, Jordan.

During 20 years, Pop was so lucky with Tim being a low-key person by nature and so coachable despite his greatness.

That's why it should work as a point in Phil's favor. He could deal with those guys. Those players were champions on Phil's teams, they could play for him without being toxic enough to make them unplayable...

Pop was a way better coach but I doubt he could have coexisted with those Bulls/Lakers superstars. It would have been an unsolvable conflict of personalities.


Sucks to remember all the shitty coaches the Spurs have had. Fucking Bob Hill...LOL, Jerry Tarkanian. John Lucas, bhahah ahahah.
If were talking about assholes who have been associated with the Spurs, these guys take the cake.

Those years were the real Spurs Dark years...Then people talk about 2008-2011 as the dark time in the franchie history...They don't know anything.

[daslicer]

Agree. At that point, the trade was a necessary move.

But I still wonder how Pop would have dealt with high personality-egomaniacs, like Kobe, Shaq, Jordan.

During 20 years, Pop was so lucky with Tim being a low-key person by nature and so coachable despite his greatness.

That's why it should work as a point in Phil's favor. He could deal with those guys. Those players were champions on Phil's teams, they could play for him without being toxic enough to make them unplayable...

Pop was a way better coach but I doubt he could have coexisted with those Bulls/Lakers superstars. It would have been an unsolvable conflict of personalities.



Those years were the real Spurs Dark years...Then people talk about 2008-2011 as the dark time in the franchie history...They don't know anything.

Phil was a psychologist. He was good at dealing with egos. That was his strength. Pop would not have done well with Kobe,Shaq,Jordan but neither would he have wanted to coach them. Speculating on how he would have handled those guys is pointless especially considering how Pop will never coach those types of player in the long run.

[poop]

Rodman retired with 5 rings. That's not an accident. He was a special player.
It might be said that other coaches were able to harness Rodman's talents, whilst Pop's ego came first...

This!

[Slippy]

Like pop i hated Rodman of the spurs. The team took abaxkseat to his antics. Got worse during the playoffs.

Rodman when at detroit was a beast that actually concentrated on bball.

[therealtruth]

That gives PJ a leg up over Pop since he was able to coach Rodman to 3 championships.

[rogcl1]

This!
Dumbfuck, Pop didn't coach him.

[Vito Corleone]

Rodman is the type of player every championship team need, a hustler who rebounds and can play some salty defense.

However, he was also the type of player that destroys team chemistry and locker rooms. He was always sulking and worrying about money. He was stupid and while in San Antonio was a me me me player and wasn't interested in the team. As other have mentioned he seldom guarded his man and was always more interested in getting rebounds and posing for the camera than guarding his man. His defense on Horry in 95 gave him the nickname Big Shot Rob.

People need to keep in mind that Pop didn't trade for Rodman, that was all on Bob Bass, he did honor Rodman's request for a trade only no team wanted to touch him other than the Bulls, and I think Pop did a great job of gettin Will Purdue for him. Yes we gave the Bulls 3 championship, but we also got our first with Purdue playing a major role allowing Robinson to play reduced minutes.

[Seventyniner]

That's why it should work as a point in Phil's favor. He could deal with those guys. Those players were champions on Phil's teams, they could play for him without being toxic enough to make them unplayable...

Pop was a way better coach but I doubt he could have coexisted with those Bulls/Lakers superstars. It would have been an unsolvable conflict of personalities.

Pop might be the Xs and Os GOAT but he doesn't do high-maintenance.

To me it was always: Pop takes low-level playoff teams and makes them into championship contenders. Phil takes championship contenders and makes them into champions.

[UZER]

Pop might be the Xs and Os GOAT but he doesn't do high-maintenance.

To me it was always: Pop takes low-level playoff teams and makes them into championship contenders. Phil takes championship contenders and makes them into champions.

One can handle big pressure. The other one doesn't like it.

[Russ]

Egos? Inability to control the player? Was he coachable?

The Spurs and Rodman parted ways over money -- it's astounding how fans so often fail to get this critical factor.

[rjv]

doesn't everyone hate rodman?

[ambchang]

Phil was a psychologist. He was good at dealing with egos. That was his strength. Pop would not have done well with Kobe,Shaq,Jordan but neither would he have wanted to coach them. Speculating on how he would have handled those guys is pointless especially considering how Pop will never coach those types of player in the long run.

Pop worked with Stephen Jackson and that worked out well.

The thing with Phil is that he look at short term gains over long term team building. He turned Jordan and Pippen against Kukoc and management to create this tension in the organization. He turned Kobe and Shaq against each other so that they will try and one-up each other. He tends to create this environment where players are encouraged to compete against each other rather than work together as a team, and then he will come in as the white knight to dissolve the situation that he created in the first place to gain people's loyalty. It's no surprise that both the Bulls and Lakers imploded in spectacular fashion. Jackson has no interest in building teams but rather short term success at the expense of long term success. It also speaks to why he is so underwhelming as a GM.

[Horse]

Would've finally beaten Utah he if didn't have his head up his ass.

[SpursforSix]

Rodman retired with 5 rings. That's not an accident. He was a special player.
It might be said that other coaches were able to harness Rodman's talents, whilst Pop's ego came first...

Wrong. He just happened to be on teams that won a ring.

Was John Salley special? Horace Grant? Ron Harper? Robery Horry? Derek Fisher? No. They were all good players that happened to be on teams that won rings.

[TheChillFactor]

Its weird that no one talks about this trade and how it created the 72 win Bulls.

[daslicer]

Pop worked with Stephen Jackson and that worked out well.

The thing with Phil is that he look at short term gains over long term team building. He turned Jordan and Pippen against Kukoc and management to create this tension in the organization. He turned Kobe and Shaq against each other so that they will try and one-up each other. He tends to create this environment where players are encouraged to compete against each other rather than work together as a team, and then he will come in as the white knight to dissolve the situation that he created in the first place to gain people's loyalty. It's no surprise that both the Bulls and Lakers imploded in spectacular fashion. Jackson has no interest in building teams but rather short term success at the expense of long term success. It also speaks to why he is so underwhelming as a GM.

I agree with everything you said. I actually respect how Pop does not put up with douchebags over the long run. Long term you can't win with these types of personalities and eventually the team will end up being destroyed. Pop is great at building team culture and chemistry that can last over long periods of time.

[ElNono]

Pop worked with Stephen Jackson and that worked out well.

That's selective memory, tbh... Jax was coming from playing overseas and was more or less a nobody until the championship. The Spurs let him walk coz they didn't want to pay him. Second time around, we all know how it ended.

[lefty]

This thread is actually great, tbh

[therealtruth]

Wrong. He just happened to be on teams that won a ring.

Was John Salley special? Horace Grant? Ron Harper? Robery Horry? Derek Fisher? No. They were all good players that happened to be on teams that won rings.

I am guessing you didn't watch those Bulls teams. Rodman was their best post defender and rebounder. They don't win without him.

[SpursforSix]

I am guessing you didn't watch those Bulls teams. Rodman was their best post defender and rebounder. They don't win without him.

I watched all of them. Rooted for them as a matter of fact.
To say they wouldn't have won without Rodman is straight up retarded.

Congratulations on having one of the worst takes on a forum full of shit takes.

If you're trolling, you win some kind of award.

[UZER]

Its weird that no one talks about this trade and how it created the 72 win Bulls.

That's SA to the NBA for you. Had the Bulls traded Rodman to the Spurs and the Spurs ran off there titles, they would be considered co-champions with the Bulls. :lol

[ambchang]

That's selective memory, tbh... Jax was coming from playing overseas and was more or less a nobody until the championship. The Spurs let him walk coz they didn't want to pay him. Second time around, we all know how it ended.

Jackson expressed regret during his prime. He couldn't swallow his pride playing behind many the second time around and was cut. The Spurs still won a championship afterwards though.

[ElNono]

Jackson expressed regret during his prime. He couldn't swallow his pride playing behind many the second time around and was cut. The Spurs still won a championship afterwards though.

He actually cashed in pretty well... I'm not saying the Spurs were wrong in letting him walk, I'm just saying that Pop dealing with Jack is a poor example, IMO... once Jax got the ego he was let go... twice...

[james evans]

In the end Bulls would probably have won those 3 rings without Rodman, they won 3 before him Bulls were stacked so it wasnt a big deal.
they wouldn't have. Rodman was their Ray Lewis in that Seattle series. He was getting under players' skin bad to the point they couldn't even think properly with him on the floor. The bulls were not stacked like GS. They needed that defensive big in the middle for rebounding. Without grant and Rodman, they lost in 95 to Orlando. Don't give me that bullshit about JOrdan being out of shape. That's bullshit. Phil knew he needed rodman, that's why he didn't try to control him. Let him party all night as long as he showed up to practice and games. Phil didn't try to control him. When Rodman said, "i never had a conversation with Pippen and Jordan", I 100% believe him. My question to you is who would have filled in Rodman's spot and had them winning 3 straight? Jason Caffey?

[james evans]

I watched all of them. Rooted for them as a matter of fact.
To say they wouldn't have won without Rodman is straight up retarded.

Congratulations on having one of the worst takes on a forum full of shit takes.

If you're trolling, you win some kind of award.
there is no way in hell you watched "all of them" and just consider Rodman as "one of the guys". IMpossible. He was a Ray Lewis/Lawrence Taylor/Deion Sanders special type of defensive player. You can't just throw Dale Davis on that Bulls team and they win 72 games and 3 straight. Karl Malone yes becasue he's an all time great. Add in that Rodman and Pippen allowed Jordan to not have to play any defense whatsover during the Bulls 2nd 3peat. The media forgets this. As Jordan was still getting all defensive honors in the league, he played little to no defense from 95-98. Guarding 4th options during their 3 finals appearances. Plus Jordan was aging, but it was disguised properly by hiding him on defense so he could run wild on offense. Don't give me this shit about Jordan in 97 and 98 when he's guarding Jeff Hornacek in the finals.

[james evans]

I agree with everything you said. I actually respect how Pop does not put up with douchebags over the long run. Long term you can't win with these types of personalities and eventually the team will end up being destroyed. Pop is great at building team culture and chemistry that can last over long periods of time.
phil won all of his titles with douchebags. 11 of them.

[daslicer]

phil won all of his titles with douchebags. 11 of them.

And Phil is the exception to the rule. I look at the way Phil burned out the Lakers after their championship runs as an example of how Phil can't keep a team together over the long run like Pop can. Phil is an opportunist whose is great at picking teams that are championship ready and then leaves immediately when adversity strikes.

[UZER]

And Phil is the exception to the rule. I look at the way Phil burned out the Lakers after their championship runs as an example of how Phil can't keep a team together over the long run like Pop can. Phil is an opportunist whose is great at picking teams that are championship ready and then leaves immediately when adversity strikes.

Fair points.

To me, their different approach to coaching overall is also why one went back-to-back multiple times, and one never repeated once in 20 years.

[Ice009]

Fair points.

To me, their different approach to coaching overall is also why one went back-to-back multiple times, and one never repeated once in 20 years.

Spurs were two miracle plays away from 5 in a row. No other team in modern NBA was that close to 5 straight. They were absolutely good enough and I'm tired of hearing this repeat bullshit. Teams like the Lakers got those bullshit calls to go their way, Spurs didn't. The fisher shot shouldn't have counted and Tim was hacked and fouled at the end of game 7. He should have had two free throws and a chance to win it before it even went to overtime.

[UZER]

Spurs were two miracle plays away from 5 in a row. No other team in modern NBA was that close to 5 straight. They were absolutely good enough and I'm tired of hearing this repeat bullshit. Teams like the Lakers got those bullshit calls to go their way, Spurs didn't. The fisher shot shouldn't have counted and Tim was hacked and fouled at the end of game 7. He should have had two free throws and a chance to win it before it even went to overtime.


If we're going that route, Tim's shot went in with .8 on the clock. If the score keeper had stopped it correctly, then the Fisher shot counts.

I'm not saying officiating doesn't have an impact, but at some point, if you win 5 titles over 20 years, and never once were able to defend it, that says something about the coach / system. I'm not saying pop is a bad coach, I'm just saying he never defended the title. That's a fact.

For the record, I'm happy with the five. Few franchises have that.

[SpursforSix]

there is no way in hell you watched "all of them" and just consider Rodman as "one of the guys". IMpossible. He was a Ray Lewis/Lawrence Taylor/Deion Sanders special type of defensive player. You can't just throw Dale Davis on that Bulls team and they win 72 games and 3 straight. Karl Malone yes becasue he's an all time great. Add in that Rodman and Pippen allowed Jordan to not have to play any defense whatsover during the Bulls 2nd 3peat. The media forgets this. As Jordan was still getting all defensive honors in the league, he played little to no defense from 95-98. Guarding 4th options during their 3 finals appearances. Plus Jordan was aging, but it was disguised properly by hiding him on defense so he could run wild on offense. Don't give me this shit about Jordan in 97 and 98 when he's guarding Jeff Hornacek in the finals.

I did watch all of them. Sure, Rodman did great things and contributed to wins but I think they still win those 3 without him.

[daslicer]

Fair points.

To me, their different approach to coaching overall is also why one went back-to-back multiple times, and one never repeated once in 20 years.

To repeat you have to have stacked teams. The 80's pistons had great depth, the 90's bulls had two superstars in Mike and Scottie, Rockets had Hakeem and wouldn't have repeated without trading for Drexler, Lakers had Kobe-Shaq, and then Kobe-Gasol and great depth with Artest,Bynum,Odom, the Heat had Lebron,Wade,Bosh. I felt when Tony and Manu hit their primes that they were all-star players but were not superstars.

Despite not being as stacked as those other teams the Spurs were some botched up calls away from winning back to back in '04 and '06. I don't have respect for those Laker teams that won back to back under Phil because they won a few titles off of bs refereeing. In '00 Lakers won that infamous rigged reffed game 7 against the Blazers in which they should have a lost if it wasn't for biased reffing. The same could be said in '02 against the Kings in that awfully reffed game 6 that allowed the Lakers to stave off of elimination. Lakers also benefited greatly in '10 in game 7 against the Celtics when it came to bad refereeing. Take away the ref card and the Phil Jackson Lakers don't have any repeat championship. Phil benefited greatly from always having the refs in his pocket. It was huge part of his strategy to complain about the refs when his team lost playoff games and then suddenly get special treatment for the rest of the series. Pop never had that luxury. Spurs would have had a few more championships if they got special ref treatment as those Laker teams did.

[lefty]

they wouldn't have. Rodman was their Ray Lewis in that Seattle series. He was getting under players' skin bad to the point they couldn't even think properly with him on the floor. The bulls were not stacked like GS. They needed that defensive big in the middle for rebounding. Without grant and Rodman, they lost in 95 to Orlando. Don't give me that bullshit about JOrdan being out of shape. That's bullshit. Phil knew he needed rodman, that's why he didn't try to control him. Let him party all night as long as he showed up to practice and games. Phil didn't try to control him. When Rodman said, "i never had a conversation with Pippen and Jordan", I 100% believe him. My question to you is who would have filled in Rodman's spot and had them winning 3 straight? Jason Caffey?
Exactly.
Sure, Williams could rebound but Rodman could defend and get under key players' skin

[UZER]

To repeat you have to have stacked teams. The 80's pistons had great depth, the 90's bulls had two superstars in Mike and Scottie, Rockets had Hakeem and wouldn't have repeated without trading for Drexler, Lakers had Kobe-Shaq, and then Kobe-Gasol and great depth with Artest,Bynum,Odom, the Heat had Lebron,Wade,Bosh. I felt when Tony and Manu hit their primes that they were all-star players but were not superstars.

Despite not being as stacked as those other teams the Spurs were some botched up calls away from winning back to back in '04 and '06. I don't have respect for those Laker teams that won back to back under Phil because they won a few titles off of bs refereeing. In '00 Lakers won that infamous rigged reffed game 7 against the Blazers in which they should have a lost if it wasn't for biased reffing. The same could be said in '02 against the Kings in that awfully reffed game 6 that allowed the Lakers to stave off of elimination. Lakers also benefited greatly in '10 in game 7 against the Celtics when it came to bad refereeing. Take away the ref card and the Phil Jackson Lakers don't have any repeat championship. Phil benefited greatly from always having the refs in his pocket. It was huge part of his strategy to complain about the refs when his team lost playoff games and then suddenly get special treatment for the rest of the series. Pop never had that luxury. Spurs would have had a few more championships if they got special ref treatment as those Laker teams did.

We've all seen Pop spend the regular season putting guys in the doghouse for weeks because of one missed rotation, playing them again for one minute, yanking them for another 3 weeks. He needlessly rests guys, especially the young ones. He spends 3/4s of the season playing ridiculous lineups that will never be effective in the playoffs. And most importantly, we've all seen him panic during a playoff series and play head scratching lineups that we all saw were garbage during the regular season.

I'm just saying, Phil never babied players physically. He didn't sit them out over and over for random games throughout the year. He never threw games just to prove a point. He played the lineups that we're going to win in the playoffs and rarely changed his starting lineups. Players understood their role. They weren't constantly guessing "am I playing tonight?" or constantly looking over their shoulders for the quick hook. If rookies were good enough, the played. It wasn't determined in Septemberr. Sorry dude, you won't be playing the playoffs. I'm mean, who does that? :lol

What Phil did helped to galvanized the team on the court, and made them strong and durable and able to push through physically and mentally, like you have to do when grinding through another playoffs as the champs trying to defend your title.

Sure Phil was an ass, but then again, so is Pop. But one took games seriously, even regular season games in January, while the other is more concerned about new planets being discovered.

[daslicer]

We've all seen Pop spend the regular season putting guys in the doghouse for weeks because of one missed rotation, playing them again for one minute, yanking them for another 3 weeks. He needlessly rests guys, especially the young ones. He spends 3/4s of the season playing ridiculous lineups that will never be effective in the playoffs. And most importantly, we've all seen him panic during a playoff series and play head scratching lineups that we all saw were garbage during the regular season.

I'm just saying, Phil never babied players physically. He didn't sit them out over and over for random games throughout the year. He never threw games just to prove a point. He played the lineups that we're going to win in the playoffs and rarely changed his starting lineups. Players understood their role. They weren't constantly guessing "am I playing tonight?" or constantly looking over their shoulders for the quick hook. If rookies were good enough, the played. It wasn't determined in Septemberr. Sorry dude, you won't be playing the playoffs. I'm mean, who does that? :lol

What Phil did helped to galvanized the team on the court, and made them strong and durable and able to push through physically and mentally, like you have to do when grinding through another playoffs as the champs trying to defend your title.

Sure Phil was an ass, but then again, so is Pop. But one took games seriously, even regular season games in January, while the other is more concerned about new planets being discovered.

I agree with you on this that Phil whenever he had the best team that they always won. For example Phil would not have played the horrible small ball line up that Pop did in '06 or bench Nazr for the rest of the playoffs but with that being said Phil always had the refs in his pocket. I just don't think Phil playing the ref card in SA works due to small market bias and Duncan not having the media presence Kobe,Shaq did. That was a huge reason like I mentioned in the previous post on why Phil was able to get repeats in LA. Phil also does not have the patience for developing young players like Pop did with Manu,Parker and later on Kawhi. That is why I can't see Phil succeeding in SA.

[therealtruth]

To repeat you have to have stacked teams. The 80's pistons had great depth, the 90's bulls had two superstars in Mike and Scottie, Rockets had Hakeem and wouldn't have repeated without trading for Drexler, Lakers had Kobe-Shaq, and then Kobe-Gasol and great depth with Artest,Bynum,Odom, the Heat had Lebron,Wade,Bosh. I felt when Tony and Manu hit their primes that they were all-star players but were not superstars.

Despite not being as stacked as those other teams the Spurs were some botched up calls away from winning back to back in '04 and '06. I don't have respect for those Laker teams that won back to back under Phil because they won a few titles off of bs refereeing. In '00 Lakers won that infamous rigged reffed game 7 against the Blazers in which they should have a lost if it wasn't for biased reffing. The same could be said in '02 against the Kings in that awfully reffed game 6 that allowed the Lakers to stave off of elimination. Lakers also benefited greatly in '10 in game 7 against the Celtics when it came to bad refereeing. Take away the ref card and the Phil Jackson Lakers don't have any repeat championship. Phil benefited greatly from always having the refs in his pocket. It was huge part of his strategy to complain about the refs when his team lost playoff games and then suddenly get special treatment for the rest of the series. Pop never had that luxury. Spurs would have had a few more championships if they got special ref treatment as those Laker teams did.

It's funny people always say the Spurs were unlucky due to a foul or 0.4 from repeating in '06 or '04. But as you point out Phil's teams benefited from luck in their favor. The difference illustrates the difference between Pop and PJ. PJ would say that you have to create your own luck. That is put yourself in situations to benefit from luck. You do that by played the lineups that you're going to need to win in the playoffs. Making sure players understand their roles. Not panicking in the playoffs. Not taking games off. He put his players in the best positions to win. If his players didn't win they simply weren't good enough.

Pop's the exact opposite. Those are all things he does that don't necessarily allow for the team to benefit from luck. Pulling TD when you need a rebound. Not playing best lineups. They're control moves. They don't allow the players to decide the games. That's the frustration with Pop. There's times you feel the team was good enough to win it but his ego wouldn't allow it.

[daslicer]

It's funny people always say the Spurs were unlucky due to a foul or 0.4 from repeating in '06 or '04. But as you point out Phil's teams benefited from luck in their favor. The difference illustrates the difference between Pop and PJ. PJ would say that you have to create your own luck. That is put yourself in situations to benefit from luck. You do that by played the lineups that you're going to need to win in the playoffs. Making sure players understand their roles. Not panicking in the playoffs. Not taking games off. He put his players in the best positions to win. If his players didn't win they simply weren't good enough.

Pop's the exact opposite. Those are all things he does that don't necessarily allow for the team to benefit from luck. Pulling TD when you need a rebound. Not playing best lineups. They're control moves. They don't allow the players to decide the games. That's the frustration with Pop. There's times you feel the team was good enough to win it but his ego wouldn't allow it.

I agree with you on that Pop has made boneheaded moves that have hurt the spurs but at the same time like I said in my previous post Phil would not have had the ability to get the spurs to that point where Pop screwed up. Do you think Phil would have been able to develop Parker,Manu,Kawhi to become the players they became. Phil has never developed shit. He needs instant stars to win and that's why he wouldn't have succeeded in San Antonio. He also needed the refs to bail his ass out another thing he would not have had in SA. Phil is great if you have a team that is ready to win a title but if you need somebody to build a team then Pop is better to go with. They both have their flaws and both I believe would not have been as successful if they traded places.

[superbigtime]

The Dennis Rodman fan club has maybe 2 members.

[cd98]

Problem with Rodman is he wanted special treatment. For Pop, that's a firm "no." He treated Tim the same as he treated everyone else, or so say former players. Phil got the Bulls together and told them the Bulls were trading for Rodman and that they were going to let Rodman be Rodman and break the rules and that the other players were still accountable, just not Rodman. And Jordan was there to police Rodman's effort, and it's one thing to have David Robinson think you aren't playing hard and it's quite another to have Jordan barking at you.

[exstatic]

That's selective memory, tbh... Jax was coming from playing overseas and was more or less a nobody until the championship. The Spurs let him walk coz they didn't want to pay him. Second time around, we all know how it ended.

Jax came from the NJ Nets, not overseas. He was a second round that Byron Scott didn't click with. He also left for less than he Spurs offered. They offered 3/$9M and he ended up taking a 1 year deal for $1m when the market dried up.

[james evans]

Problem with Rodman is he wanted special treatment. For Pop, that's a firm "no." He treated Tim the same as he treated everyone else, or so say former players. Phil got the Bulls together and told them the Bulls were trading for Rodman and that they were going to let Rodman be Rodman and break the rules and that the other players were still accountable, just not Rodman. And Jordan was there to police Rodman's effort, and it's one thing to have David Robinson think you aren't playing hard and it's quite another to have Jordan barking at you.
there were no rules broken. He just liked to party all night. He showed up to practice and game day. What a man does on his free time is his own fucking business. When you as a coach starts worrying about what players do on their free time and it's not affecting their court performance, then that's a problem.

[ElNono]

Jax came from the NJ Nets, not overseas. He was a second round that Byron Scott didn't click with. He also left for less than he Spurs offered. They offered 3/$9M and he ended up taking a 1 year deal for $1m when the market dried up.

He came from the Nets, but he was drafted by Phoenix and played 3 years in the CBA and overseas. He was a relative unknown. It didn't help Pop buried him to the injured list in his first year to get over himself either, tbh...

Former assistant coach Mike Brown stated: "The first year we had him in San Antonio, he was on the (injured reserve) most of the year. At first, he didn't understand why because he probably was the most talented player we had on that team, but he needed to mature a little bit so we stuck him there to see how he would respond. He was the best teammate on our team that first year. He was juiced at practice ready to play and compete and make the starters better, and it carried over into his second year when he got his opportunity to get out onto the floor and prove he could be a vital part of the organization."

He wanted a longer contract. Yeah, he signed a 2 year deal with Atlanta, but by the time his first year was over, he signed for 6/$38m on his move to Indiana. In hindsight, money-wise, he absolutely made the right move...

On the other hand, whether the Spurs shoulda kept him or not, it's debatable, but it's clear PATFO didn't really care that much if he left.

[hater]

Saw rodman at a strip joint in Miami a while ago

Dude is an animal

[lefty]

We've all seen Pop spend the regular season putting guys in the doghouse for weeks because of one missed rotation, playing them again for one minute, yanking them for another 3 weeks. He needlessly rests guys, especially the young ones. He spends 3/4s of the season playing ridiculous lineups that will never be effective in the playoffs. And most importantly, we've all seen him panic during a playoff series and play head scratching lineups that we all saw were garbage during the regular season.

I'm just saying, Phil never babied players physically. He didn't sit them out over and over for random games throughout the year. He never threw games just to prove a point. He played the lineups that we're going to win in the playoffs and rarely changed his starting lineups. Players understood their role. They weren't constantly guessing "am I playing tonight?" or constantly looking over their shoulders for the quick hook. If rookies were good enough, the played. It wasn't determined in Septemberr. Sorry dude, you won't be playing the playoffs. I'm mean, who does that? :lol

What Phil did helped to galvanized the team on the court, and made them strong and durable and able to push through physically and mentally, like you have to do when grinding through another playoffs as the champs trying to defend your title.

Sure Phil was an ass, but then again, so is Pop. But one took games seriously, even regular season games in January, while the other is more concerned about new planets being discovered.

Phil never threw games to prove a point?

He kinda did

[cd98]

there were no rules broken. He just liked to party all night. He showed up to practice and game day. What a man does on his free time is his own fucking business. When you as a coach starts worrying about what players do on their free time and it's not affecting their court performance, then that's a problem.
Uh no.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-05-23/sports/9805230077_1_rodman-rules-dennis-rodman-jordan-rules

[Phenomanul]

^Good article that pretty much derails the notion that "Pop was the problem"... (even if he never directly coached Rodman).

[SpursforSix]

Saw rodman at a strip joint in Miami a while ago

Dude is an animal

What kind of animal?

[james evans]

U got 1 incident on the last year of his contract in the next to last last series of his contract??? Hahaha

[daslicer]

U got 1 incident on the last year of his contract in the next to last last series of his contract??? Hahaha

Every year Rodman was with the Bulls he did something controversial that on any normal team would have disrupted team chemistry. In '96 he headbutted the ref and got suspended for 6 games. In '97 he kicked a camera man in the balls and got suspended 11 games. He also lead the league in technicals for every year that he played with the bulls. He lucked out playing with the GOAT which allowed him to succeed despite being toxic.

niSd-GtPCGk


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[pgardn]

Outspoken black men, tbh... we know how Pop deals with them... If he was Euro or Mexican he would still be playing for the Spurs, tbh...

Fckn nut...

Im gonna negotiate with N. Korea.