Why do people claim that taking down Confederate statues is erasing history?

[Clipper Nation]

Most of these statues were put up long after the Civil War, during the Jim Crow era, at a time when white southerners were still butthurt over losing the war and wanted to flaunt their racism. They have no historical value; the only reason they were ever erected in the first place was to taunt and intimidate black people.

Furthermore, we can remember traitors without honoring them. There are these things called museums, history books, the History Channel, and the Internet. None of them are going to disappear overnight if some cheap, ugly statues are removed.

I don't see a problem with letting the communities vote on whether or not the statues should stay up, tbh. The fearmongering about history being erased has no basis in fact.

[Spurminator]

There are these things called museums, history books, the History Channel, and the Internet. None of them are going to disappear overnight if some cheap, ugly statues are removed.

I think you may have identified one of the problems, people who watch the History Channel only see stuff like Pawn Wars and Larry the Cable Guy anymore, so it's no wonder they think history is being erased.

[Pavlov]

When they take the Ken Burns series off Netflix, I'll know Antifa is to blame.

[Xevious]

I think you may have identified one of the problems, people who watch the History Channel only see stuff like Pawn Wars and Larry the Cable Guy anymore, so it's no wonder they think history is being erased.
You mean the History Channel has started airing something other than Nazi documentaries? It's been a while since I've had cable.

[Spurminator]

You mean the History Channel has started airing something other than Nazi documentaries? It's been a while since I've had cable.

Oh yeah that was so pre-2009ish. Check out this lineup: http://www.history.com/shows

I haven't had cable in a while either and I don't miss it.

[Chris]

I haven't had cable in a while either and I don't miss it.

It's all garbage. Only reason I have it is for the San Antonio Spurs, Texas Rangers, and the Dallas Cowboys. :tu

[Thread]

You mean the History Channel has started airing something other than Nazi documentaries? It's been a while since I've had cable.

:lol

[ducks]

liberals are idiots

[Xevious]

Oh yeah that was so pre-2009ish. Check out this lineup: http://www.history.com/shows

I haven't had cable in a while either and I don't miss it.
Pawnography :lol

[Splits]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHOxhm2WAAEkKLZ.jpg

[baseline bum]

You mean the History Channel has started airing something other than Nazi documentaries? It's been a while since I've had cable.

Ah the glory days. It makes me sad when I go back and watch old Sopranos episodes and see Tony glued to the History Channel for all their great WWII documentaries.

[florige]

liberals are idiots


That's mean Ducks.

[Will Hunting]

You mean the History Channel has started airing something other than Nazi documentaries? It's been a while since I've had cable.
The History Channel was much better when it was the Hitler Channel instead of the Alien Conspiracy Channel.

[DarrinS]

Most of these statues were put up long after the Civil War, during the Jim Crow era, at a time when white southerners were still butthurt over losing the war and wanted to flaunt their racism.


I guess the white hoods and burning crosses weren't enough?

[Pavlov]

I guess the white hoods and burning crosses weren't enough?Gotta do something during the day.

Or are you still trying to say they weren't the same people, Darrin?

[spurraider21]

Good to see CN stepping up in the clutch tbh... Showing integrity instead of being a partisan shill :tu

[DarrinS]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270038&p=9117062&viewfull=1#post9117062

[lebomb]

The confederates LOST the war, they shouldnt have a damn thing up. Since when does the loser get to have a form of a trophy.

[Thread]

The confederates LOST the war, they shouldnt have a damn thing up. Since when does the loser get to have a form of a trophy.

Though not a soul on these Boards have ever uttered a peep about this until this month. Not one fuckin' word. Now, NOW, now you're outraged.

Horseshit.

[Clipper Nation]

Though not a soul on these Boards have ever uttered a peep about this until this month. Not one fuckin' word. Now, NOW, now you're outraged.

Horseshit.
It's true, Dale. They're losers trying to put themselves in the winners' circle.

[lebomb]

Though not a soul on these Boards have ever uttered a peep about this until this month. Not one fuckin' word. Now, NOW, now you're outraged.

Horseshit.

Ive said this forever, not just this month. I never understood it. The winner gets to rip all that bullshit down and put their statues up. How in the hell did the confederates pull that off?

[Thread]

Ive said this forever, not just this month. I never understood it. The winner gets to rip all that bullshit down and put their statues up. How in the hell did the confederates pull that off?

Then cite the post and I'll relent.

[hater]

The confederates LOST the war, they shouldnt have a damn thing up. Since when does the loser get to have a form of a trophy.

We lost Vietnam war and we still have tons of monuments, Einstein

[hater]

To answer the OPs question, we are taking the monuments down not because they are of traitors or losers like the MSM has been saying and morons here parroting.

We are taking them down because it offends a group of ppl. You can take anything down as long as it offends the right kinds and right numbers of ppl.


Of course anything that offends the american indian is excluded as american indians are still not considered humans to this day in the good ol US of A

[Splits]

Good to see CN stepping up in the clutch tbh... Showing integrity instead of being a partisan shill :tu

:rolleyes

Yeah, avoiding some real elite company of Dale, Darrin and Chris.

[Thread]

:rolleyes

Yeah, avoiding some real elite company of Dale, Darrin and Chris.

-BOTH SIDES-

[Pavlov]

We lost Vietnam war and we still have tons of monuments, EinsteinIn Vietnam?

[Thread]

-BOTH SIDES-

And that's the best of it. That's all I wanted/want. That's where CNN/Media can't take it.

No way, no how can CNN/Media rest as long as Trump stays at BOTH SIDES. It's not even the Nazi thing, it's the BOTH SIDES. tee, hee.

I'm gonna party my ass off tonite. Hagen Daaz, Tootsie Rolls/Midgees, TV, A/C at 7PM, TCM,,,CHARGE!!!

-BOTH SIDES-

[Pavlov]

And that's the best of it. That's all I wanted/want. That's where CNN/Media can't take it.

No way, no how can CNN/Media rest as long as Trump stays at BOTH SIDES.

I'm gonna party my ass off tonite. Hagen Daaz, Tootsie Rolls/Midgees, TV, A/C at 7PM, TCM,,,CHARGE!!!

-BOTH SIDES-Only one side murdered.

[Thread]

Only one side murdered.

Same as that Beermuth kid that got killed in Korea. "Dad, mom, I'm goin' down to the park and counter protest."

"Okay, honey."

---

In my family...

- "Dad, I'm goin' down to the park to protest."

- "Fine, but, it'll be over my dead body, and your mother's as soon as she gets back from shopping."

[Pavlov]

Same as that Beermuth kid that got killed in Korea. "Dad, mom, I'm goin' down to the park and counter protest."

"Okay, honey."

---

In my family...

- "Dad, I'm goin' down to the park to protest."

- "Fine, but, it'll be over my dead body, and your mother's as soon as she gets back from shopping."They didn't do the murdering. And the woman was in her 30s.

[Thread]

They didn't do the murdering.

-BOTH SIDES-

[hater]

In Vietnam?

You cant be this stupid.

Where were the Confederate States of America?

[Pavlov]

-BOTH SIDES-Only one side murdered. Nothing you can say will ever change that.


You cant be this stupid.

Where were the Confederate States of America?
Where is Vietnam?

[hater]

Where is Vietnam?

In Asia. Where were the Confederate States of America?

[Reck]

:rolleyes

Yeah, avoiding some real elite company of Dale, Darrin and Chris.

Nah, he's been solid.

He even semi defended the mask wearing idiots antifa group when in the past he's been critical of them.

[Pavlov]

In Asia.Oh, so are the memorials in the country where they lost?

[hater]

Oh, so are the memorials in the country where they lost?

Where are the Confederate States of America?

[Pavlov]

Where are the Confederate States of America?Nowhere. That country ceased to exist when Lee, et.al. surrendered.

[Spurminator]

I guess the white hoods and burning crosses weren't enough?

Wasn't enough to stop the lynch mobs either.

[Pavlov]

Wasn't enough to stop the lynch mobs either.:lol "The whites in Jim Crow governments were the good ones."

[AaronY]

:cry muh statues :cry
:cry they were all that I had left :cry

[hater]

Nowhere. That country ceased to exist when Lee, et.al. surrendered.

So you must know where they were geographically. where was it?

[Pavlov]

So you must know where they were geographically. where was it?They can build all the memorials they want in the nonexistent Confederate States of America. In the United States of America that does exist, they were traitors and deserve shit.

[hater]

They can build all the memorials they want in the nonexistent Confederate States of America. In the United States of America that does exist, they were traitors and deserve shit.

Oh but the states existed and still exist today. What states composed the Confederate States of America?

[Pavlov]

Oh but the states existed and still exist today. What states composed the Confederate States of America?Why are you moving the goalpost now? The country they fought for doesn't exist. The country they betrayed does exist.

[SnakeBoy]

:cheer Blow it up! Blow it up! Blow it up!:cheer

http://images.travelpod.com/users/patricia1957/2.1404055963.2-jpg.jpg

[Pavlov]

:cheer Beat the straw man! Beat the straw man! Beat the straw man!:cheer

[SnakeBoy]

That ain't no strawman Chump

Unless you want explain why this monument to traitors is different.

[Pavlov]

That ain't no strawman Chump

Unless you want explain why this monument to traitors is different.You can't move it to a museum.

[SnakeBoy]

You can't move it to a museum.

:lol

Just tell the truth man

[Pavlov]

:lol

Just tell the truth manI did. We already had this discussion over your straw man. That's why I'm calling it a straw man.

[hater]

Why are you moving the goalpost now? The country they fought for doesn't exist. The country they betrayed does exist.

The states still exist. Doesnt Puerto Rico have Spanish statues eventhough they lost the war?

[Pavlov]

The states still exist. Doesnt Puerto Rico have Spanish statues eventhough they lost the war?This is your argument. Don't ask me for help.

[SnakeBoy]

Here we go...


Candidate for governor calls for removal of Stone Mountain carving

One of the gubernatorial candidates is calling for the removal of Confederate statues and monuments from around the state, including Stone Mountain's Civil War carving.

The Democratic party front-runner for governor, Stacy Abrams, said the carving of three Confederate leaders at Stone Mountain, which is designated by state law as an official Confederate memorial site, should be removed.

“It is 2017, and now is the time for us to have a conversation about removing the last vestiges of that type of hatred and that type of vitriol toward minority communities in Georgia,” Abrams told Channel 2's Richard ******.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/dekalb-county/governor-candidate-calls-for-removal-of-confederate-carving-at-stone-mountain/592409692



:cheer Blow it up! Blow it up! Blow it up! :cheer

[hater]

This is your argument. Don't ask me for help.

By your logic lets rename San Antonio and Los Angeles since the mexicans lost the war :lmao

Rio Bravo will be called Brave River :lol

[SnakeBoy]

By your logic lets rename San Antonio and Los Angeles since the mexicans lost the war :lmao

Rio Bravo will be called Brave River :lol

Plus it's so christiany

[hater]

Crazy Horse memorial gotta go. They lost the war

:lmao

[Pavlov]

By your logic lets rename San Antonio and Los Angeles since the mexicans lost the war :lmao

Rio Bravo will be called Brave River :lolThose aren't monuments. Man, you have trouble with simple concepts.

[Pavlov]

Crazy Horse memorial gotta go. They lost the war

:lmaoThat's on private land. Really, we've already talked about a lot of this.

[hater]

Sitting bull monument. Gotta go they lost. - Chumpdumper

https://www.mobridge.org/img-mobridge/sitting_bull_(480x640).jpg

:lmao

[TeyshaBlue]

Sitting bull monument. Gotta go they lost. - Chumpdumper

https://www.mobridge.org/img-mobridge/sitting_bull_(480x640).jpg

:lmao

Who ties your shoes for you?

[hater]

Black Hawk statue is on a state park

Gotta go? :lmao chump :lol

[hater]

Who ties your shoes for you?

Too easy. Pass :lol

[Pavlov]

Sitting bull monument. Gotta go they lost. - Chumpdumper

https://www.mobridge.org/img-mobridge/sitting_bull_(480x640).jpg

:lmaoThat's a grave, dude.

[DarrinS]

.

Wrong thread

[ducks]

That's mean Ducks.

I am not dam liberal that wants a handout

[Pavlov]

Black Hawk statue is on a state park

Gotta go? :lmao chump :lol:lol comparing native Americans to confederate traitors.

[hater]

:lol comparing native Americans to confederate traitors.

:lmao moving the goalposts

[AaronY]

Who ties your shoes for you?
Lol

[Pavlov]

:lmao moving the goalposts:lol Yep, you sure did try to move the goalposts :lmao

[lebomb]

Black Hawk statue is on a state park

Gotta go? :lmao chump :lol

You are stupid. Lets erect a Hitler Statue back in Germany. He lost the war. :rolleyes

[midnightpulp]

Most of these statues were put up long after the Civil War, during the Jim Crow era, at a time when white southerners were still butthurt over losing the war and wanted to flaunt their racism. They have no historical value; the only reason they were ever erected in the first place was to taunt and intimidate black people.

Furthermore, we can remember traitors without honoring them. There are these things called museums, history books, the History Channel, and the Internet. None of them are going to disappear overnight if some cheap, ugly statues are removed.

I don't see a problem with letting the communities vote on whether or not the statues should stay up, tbh. The fearmongering about history being erased has no basis in fact.

They just want them up because it "triggers snowflakes."

Sadly, that's the mindset that has seemed to take over modern "average Joe" Conservatives. See this shit on my facebook feeds from conservative family members and friends. All about triggering snowflakes.

[djohn2oo8]

Something about needing to be reminded about losing and white men getting dominated by other white men.

[Thread]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHXBSKVVYAEFWiv.jpg.

[Clipper Nation]

They just want them up because it "triggers snowflakes."

Sadly, that's the mindset that has seemed to take over modern "average Joe" Conservatives. See this shit on my facebook feeds from conservative family members and friends. All about triggering snowflakes.
I get that the "snowflakes" are annoying, ignorant and paranoid most of the time, but you know the whole anti-SJW shtick has officially jumped the shark when people start defending literal Nazis, white supremacists, slaveowners and traitors.

[boutons_deux]

... because they are stupid, ignorant, racist shitheads

[Thread]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHbLVPFUMAALvKZ.jpg

[RandomGuy]

I am not dam liberal that wants a handout

No. You are a conservative that make apologies for rape, torture, and murder. "slavery wasn't that bad..."

[RandomGuy]

They just want them up because it "triggers snowflakes."

Sadly, that's the mindset that has seemed to take over modern "average Joe" Conservatives. See this shit on my facebook feeds from conservative family members and friends. All about triggering snowflakes.

Pretty much.

It is the moral and intellectual death of conservatism, played out on a massive scale.

The death throes are not pretty to look at.

[DarrinS]

Lol, start at 5:42


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXxPVNkR4qw


Det slope is slippery. :lol

[Pavlov]

Lol, start at 5:42


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXxPVNkR4qw


Det slope is slippery. :lolThat ended up being a really good, civil conversation, Darrin.

There should be more conversations like that.

Thanks for posting it.

[DarrinS]

Chump must get an alert every time I post. :lol

[Spurminator]

Det slope is slippery. :lol

She's entitled to her opinion, as you're entitled to your confirmation bias.

Neither will go anywhere. There is no significant support behind removing George Washington monuments.

[Pavlov]

Chump must get an alert every time I post. :lolI'm surprised you posted such a positive video tbh.

[boutons_deux]

"erasing history" is a LIE of fake-fear-mongering that racists spew as if they gave a shit about history

[djohn2oo8]

Them niggas lost the war now they lose their statues :lol

[Spurminator]

"So beautiful"

http://images.gawker.com/1310553686853971558/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800.jpg

[lebomb]

Them niggas lost the war now they lose their statues :lol

Thats how I feel about it. You dont get a trophy for coming in last place nigga.

[DarrinS]

Thats how I feel about it. You dont get a trophy for coming in last place nigga.

That's not why they want them taken down.

[Pavlov]

"So beautiful"

http://images.gawker.com/1310553686853971558/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800.jpgPrivate land. Hopefully the state blocks the view from the highway at some point but lol at the guy who paid money for that.


That's not why they want them taken down.Who is "they"?

[Spurminator]

Private land. Hopefully the state blocks the view from the highway at some point but lol at the guy who paid money on that.

That's a relief.

[DarrinS]

Who is "they"?


Blacks and virtue-signaling SJWs.

[Pavlov]

Blacks and virtue-signaling SJWs.Did you talk to all of them? Any of them? Or did you watch a couple of YouTubes?

[SnakeBoy]

Who is "they"?

You people

[lebomb]

That's not why they want them taken down.

I know why THEY want them down. Im saying I dont understand how the army that lost the war still gets to have statues. To the victor goes the spoils. Losers should not be allow to commemorate a damned thing.

[Pavlov]

I know why THEY want them down. Im saying I dont understand how the army that lost the war still gets to have statues. To the victor goes the spoils. Losers should not be allow to commemorate a damned thing.Nope, Darrin told you what you people want.

[Spurminator]

That "they" want them taken down seems to be the main reason anyone feels all that passionate about keeping them up.

[lebomb]

Nope, Darrin told you what you people want.

Just say it MF .......... "You People".......Nigga. Just say it. :claw

[spurraider21]

Them niggas lost the war now they lose their statues :lol
Participation trophies tbh

Entitlement culture

[Pavlov]

Just say it MF .......... "You People".......Nigga. Just say it. :claw:lol was afraid you wouldn't catch that. Should've used quotes.

[spurraider21]

Blacks and virtue-signaling SJWs.
How many of them want the privately owned statue taken down?

[DarrinS]

"they" "them" "those people" "you people"

http://static02.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2015/08/Chris_Farley_air_quote.gif

[AaronY]

The poll I saw indicated that the people want the statues to say. The poll question was kind of loaded and that can make a big difference but if it's accurate then it's a losing issue for dems obviously especially in Southern States where can increase turnout

[Chucho]

"they" "them" "those people" "you people"

http://static02.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2015/08/Chris_Farley_air_quote.gif


" So I says to the guy, I says, I says...I gotta level with ya, so I saysIsaysIsay..."

Holy shit, SNL was sooooo godly from 92 til about 98. Add that to the list of things that were much better back then, along with cocaine, music, chicks and the youth.

[Pavlov]

The poll I saw indicated that the people want the statues to say. The poll question was kind of loaded and that can make a big difference but if it's accurate then it's a losing issue for dems obviously especially in Southern States where can increase turnoutIt's gotta be a local thing.

[Trill Clinton]

Blacks and virtue-signaling SJWs.

I don't care about the statues. It is funny watching them get butthurt over the statues being removed, tho.

[baseline bum]

The poll I saw indicated that the people want the statues to say. The poll question was kind of loaded and that can make a big difference but if it's accurate then it's a losing issue for dems obviously especially in Southern States where can increase turnout

Meh paying attention to the south is what fucked the democrats in 2016. Ooh Hillary was winning in landslides states that were unwinnable in the general while Bernie was killing in the rust belt battleground states that would have actually mattered. Trying to win the confederate states is a lost cause until the boomers die off.

[Pavlov]

I don't care about the statues. It is funny watching them get butthurt over the statues being removed, tho.Nope, Darrin saw a YouTube with one of YouPeople so you want them taken down too..

[DarrinS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcIlpLt0h0c

[Pavlov]

Another YouPeople!

[Spurminator]

Al Sharpton's audience continues to be a ratio of about 100:1 in favor of conservatives he agitates vs. liberals who give a shit what he says.

[AaronY]

Darrin scouring the web for anything thats even slightly embarrassing for Democrats and posting it...aka another day in the life

[spurraider21]

Darrin scouring the web for anything thats even slightly embarrassing for Democrats and posting it...aka another day in the life
I'm sure he's just subscribed to that youtube channel

[Clipper Nation]

Meh paying attention to the south is what fucked the democrats in 2016. Ooh Hillary was winning in landslides states that were unwinnable in the general while Bernie was killing in the rust belt battleground states that would have actually mattered. Trying to win the confederate states is a lost cause until the boomers die off.
So what should the Democrats have done? Disenfranchise every Democrat that lives in a traditionally red state and only count the states Bernie won? Then they'd really be rigging their primaries.

Bernie lost fair and squarePERIOD

[baseline bum]

So what should the Democrats have done? Disenfranchise every Democrat that lives in a traditionally red state and only count the states Bernie won? Then they'd really be rigging their primaries.

Bernie lost fair and squarePERIOD

The superdelegates can vote for whoever they want. It would have been smarter to focus on winnable states but the DNC was so sure they were going to get a landslide win with Clinton and even pick off some southern states just because Trump was a piece of shit.

[DarrinS]

Interesting

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2017-08-17/disapprove.jpg

[Clipper Nation]

The superdelegates can vote for whoever they want. It would have been smarter to focus on winnable states but the DNC was so sure they were going to get a landslide win with Clinton and even pick off some southern states just because Trump was a piece of shit.
You do realize that, without even considering superdelegates, Hillary still trounced Bernie in both the popular vote and the regular pledged delegates? You're basically suggesting that the superdelegates should have ignored the will of their party's voters and installed the less popular and less electable candidate as their nominee. Seems fair.

[baseline bum]

You do realize that, without even considering superdelegates, Hillary still trounced Bernie in both the popular vote and the regular pledged delegates? You're basically suggesting that the superdelegates should have ignored the will of their party's voters and installed the less popular and less electable candidate as their nominee. Seems fair.

Meh she had 4.5% more delegates won. Michigan and Wisconsin should have probably been a wakeup call to the DNC.

[Leetonidas]

Totally agree with OP tbh. Don't know why American “patriots” are so concerned about monuments to traitors

[Clipper Nation]

Meh she had 4.5% more delegates won. Michigan and Wisconsin should have probably been a wakeup call to the DNC.
Hillary mopped the fuckin' floor with Bernie's fuckin' ass, Bum.

[boutons_deux]

moral and intellectual death of conservatism

when was conservatism alive and moral, outside the self-congratulating preening of conservatives?

[TeyshaBlue]

Pretty much.

It is the moral and intellectual death of conservatism, played out on a massive scale.

The death throes are not pretty to look at.

Not really. Might be the moral and intellectual death of the GOP. With any luck the GOP will splinter and the Tea Party nutbars will vamoose.

[boutons_deux]

GOP, conservatism, tea baggers, aren't going anywhere.

They are tools of the oligarchy and the oligarchy is unbeatable, unstoppable.

[baseline bum]

Not really. Might be the moral and intellectual death of the GOP. With any luck the GOP will splinter and the Tea Party nutbars will vamoose.

Where would they run to? I can't see it, our constitution pretty much guarantees a two party system and if you're not at least closely allied to one of the parties you're not going to have any power. Trump's going to turn the GOP into his nationalist party if the GOP congress doesn't impeach. It's probably already too late given his popularity with Republicans, his hostile takeover of the party looks like it has been successful. My fear is the Democrats will move even further to the right to court guys like Kasich and Romney and we'll end up with two very conservative parties in this nation.

[Spurtacular]

Most of these statues were put up long after the Civil War, during the Jim Crow era, at a time when white southerners were still butthurt over losing the war and wanted to flaunt their racism. They have no historical value; the only reason they were ever erected in the first place was to taunt and intimidate black people.

Furthermore, we can remember traitors without honoring them. There are these things called museums, history books, the History Channel, and the Internet. None of them are going to disappear overnight if some cheap, ugly statues are removed.

I don't see a problem with letting the communities vote on whether or not the statues should stay up, tbh. The fearmongering about history being erased has no basis in fact.

If one were to see it through only racial tones and revisionist history (as "the winner" has created), I could see your point. But I see these statues as symbols of states rights. Big Brother wants nothing more than to see these statues taken down.

[Spurtacular]

GOP, conservatism, tea baggers, aren't going anywhere.

They are tools of the oligarchy and the oligarchy is unbeatable, unstoppable.

As are big city democrats. Only idiots see it as good vs. evil.

[Pavlov]

If one were to see it through only racial tones and revisionist history (as "the winner" has created), I could see your point. But I see these statues as symbols of states rights.States' rights to have slavery.

[Spurtacular]

Hillary mopped the fuckin' floor with Bernie's fuckin' ass, Bum.

You really think that shit wasn't rigged? Hillary averaging tens of people at her rallies really won? If anything, this alone should teach you the need to get rid of electronic voting. And I ain't a Bernie fan; but he got fucked.

[Spurtacular]

States' rights to have slavery.

States rights as they're spelled out in the Constitution.

[Pavlov]

States rights as they're spelled out in the Constitution.To have slavery.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

States' rights to have slavery.

Every single state that seceded claimed loss of property --slaves-- as cause for leaving the union. Following Kansas voting to not be a slave state in 1861, the south knew they did not have the votes in congress to maintain their slave economy so they seceded.

Lee himself repeatedly spoke against emancipation stating that it would be cruel to release slaves and that it was good for them to learn under the dominion of their betters. The Army under his command was notorious for torturing and executing captured africans fighting for the union.

It is what it is.

[Spurtacular]

Every single state that seceded claimed loss of property --slaves-- as cause for leaving the union. Following Kansas voting to not be a slave state in 1861, the south knew they did not have the votes in congress to maintain their slave economy so they seceded.

Lee himself repeatedly spoke against emancipation stating that it would be cruel to release slaves and that it was good for them to learn under the dominion of their betters.

It is what it is.

Are you fucking retarded? The Emancipation Proclamation came after the Civil War was under way. This pretty much portrays how liberal dunderheads can't see history for what it is.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Are you fucking retarded? The Emancipation Proclamation came after the Civil War was under way. This pretty much portrays how liberal dunderheads can't see history for what it is.

The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A. D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then a free, sovereign and independent nation, the annexation of the latter to the former, as one of the co-equal States thereof,

The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquillity and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

http://www.lsjunction.com/docs/secesson.htm

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."

These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

[FuzzyLumpkins]

In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

The hostility to this institution commenced before the adoption of the Constitution, and was manifested in the well-known Ordinance of 1787, in regard to the Northwestern Territory.

The feeling increased, until, in 1819-20, it deprived the South of more than half the vast territory acquired from France.
The same hostility dismembered Texas and seized upon all the territory acquired from Mexico.

It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.

It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.

It tramples the original equality of the South under foot.

It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact, which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.

It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/mississippi_declaration.asp

[Pavlov]

Are you fucking retarded? The Emancipation Proclamation came after the Civil War was under way. This pretty much portrays how liberal dunderheads can't see history for what it is.
by their declared principles and policy they have outlawed $3,000,000,000 of our property in the common territories of the Union; put it under the ban of the Republic in the States where it exists and out of the protection of Federal law everywhere; because they give sanctuary to thieves and incendiaries who assail it to the whole extent of their power, in spite of their most solemn obligations and covenants; because their avowed purpose is to subvert our society and subject us not only to the loss of our property but the destruction of ourselves, our wives, and our children, and the desolation of our homes, our altars, and our firesides.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

[DarrinS]

This is some furious copy/paste action. Well done

[FuzzyLumpkins]

For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slaveholding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic. This hostile policy of our confederates has been pursued with every circumstance of aggravation which could arouse the passions and excite the hatred of our people, and has placed the two sections of the Union for many years past in the condition of virtual civil war. Our people, still attached to the Union from habit and national traditions, and averse to change, hoped that time, reason, and argument would bring, if not redress, at least exemption from further insults, injuries, and dangers. Recent events have fully dissipated all such hopes and demonstrated the necessity of separation. Our Northern confederates, after a full and calm hearing of all the facts, after a fair warning of our purpose not to submit to the rule of the authors of all these wrongs and injuries, have by a large majority committed the Government of the United States into their hands. The people of Georgia, after an equally full and fair and deliberate hearing of the case, have declared with equal firmness that they shall not rule over them. A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and the political organization into whose hands the administration of the Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. While it attracts to itself by its creed the scattered advocates of exploded political heresies, of condemned theories in political economy, the advocates of commercial restrictions, of protection, of special privileges, of waste and corruption in the administration of Government, anti-slavery is its mission and its purpose. By anti-slavery it is made a power in the state. The question of slavery was the great difficulty in the way of the formation of the Constitution. While the subordination and the political and social inequality of the African race was fully conceded by all, it was plainly apparent that slavery would soon disappear from what are now the non-slave-holding States of the original thirteen. The opposition to slavery was then, as now, general in those States and the Constitution was made with direct reference to that fact. But a distinct abolition party was not formed in the United States for more than half a century after the Government went into operation. The main reason was that the North, even if united, could not control both branches of the Legislature during any portion of that time.

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/georgia_declaration.asp

[Pavlov]

This is some furious copy/paste action. Well doneSorry I don't have a YouTube for you. Any black people scare you since this afternoon?

[Spurtacular]

Wow, that's a lot of blather. Doesn't change that your statement was historically inaccurate and utterly convoluted.

[Pavlov]

Wow, that's a lot of blather. :lmao What part of the secession declarations do you not understand?


Doesn't change that your statement was historically inaccurate.Complaints of loss of property.

In black and white.

I actually bolded it for you in case you got lost in the multiple sentences.

[spurraider21]

Interesting

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2017-08-17/disapprove.jpg
same polls that said hillary would win

[baseline bum]

Wow, that's a lot of blather. Doesn't change that your statement was historically inaccurate and utterly convoluted.

LOL someone claiming the civil war wasn't about slavery crying revisionist history.

[Pavlov]

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. :lmao

[Spurtacular]

LOL someone claiming the civil war wasn't about slavery crying revisionist history.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying there were multiple issues. And for many, the issue was not about upholding slavery but rather Constitutional rights. If you don't follow your Constitution, then tyranny abounds.

[Pavlov]

I'm saying there were multiple issues. And for many, the issue was not about upholding slavery but rather Constitutional rights.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

[djohn2oo8]

898340780833521664
lol these shits coming down with the quickness

[Spurminator]

lol these shits coming down with the quickness

Thanks Nazis!

[Pavlov]

898340780833521664
lol these shits coming down with the quicknessI kinda like that one tbh. Shows Johnny Reb before and after he got his traitor ass kicked.

[Quadzilla99]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying there were multiple issues. And for many, the issue was not about upholding slavery but rather Constitutional rights. If you don't follow your Constitution, then tyranny abounds.

God damn you're fucking stupid

[Pavlov]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying there were multiple issues. And for many, the issue was not about upholding slavery but rather Constitutional rights to uphold slavery. If you follow your Constitution, then slavery abounds.

[djohn2oo8]

898368801183584256

[Spurminator]

Here's a law that was enacted to celebrate the 100 year Civil War anniversary.

898017798252658688

[hater]

Here's a law that was enacted to celebrate the 100 year Civil War anniversary.

898017798252658688

This is very important

[Spurminator]

This is very important

So are street names.

[hater]

So are street names.

Yes they are so important. I cant stop thinking about them

[Spurminator]

Yes they are so important. I cant stop thinking about them

I didn't know you were from Alexandria. Cool.

[hater]

I didn't know you were from Alexandria. Cool.

This is important as well. Keep going

[Clipper Nation]

If one were to see it through only racial tones and revisionist history (as "the winner" has created), I could see your point. But I see these statues as symbols of states rights. Big Brother wants nothing more than to see these statues taken down.

:lol Oh, you're one of those nutjobs who think the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

Here's a tip: read the Southern states' declarations of secession and take note of what they all say their reason for seceding was - in their own words. It isn't "states' rights," it's slavery.

[Clipper Nation]

You really think that shit wasn't rigged? Hillary averaging tens of people at her rallies really won? If anything, this alone should teach you the need to get rid of electronic voting. And I ain't a Bernie fan; but he got fucked.
Hillary mopped the fuckin' floor with Bernie's fuckin' assPERIOD

[Spurminator]

This is important as well. Keep going

I'm glad John Emoji Shitpost is now policing the forum to ensure we only discuss the important things.

Anyway, I didn't post that because I particularly care about that specific law. You can figure out the relevance on your own time.

[hater]

No prob

I been to alexandria and its a very small and very old place

I doubt there are too many streets created post 1963.

[SnakeBoy]

Workers World Party organized rally that toppled Confederate statue in Durham
http://www.worldtribune.com/workers-world-party-organized-rally-that-toppled-confederate-statue-in-durham/

Commies!

[Pavlov]

John Emoji Shitpost
http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/ftpuploads/bloguploads/laughing-gifs-foolish-human.gif

[SnakeBoy]

Fat commies teacher from North Carolina Central University is coming to her defense

“My student, Takiyah Thompson, was arrested this afternoon on NCCU’s campus during a press conference. At the same time that she was being arrested, the homes of her comrades were raided by the Durham County Sheriff’s Office. In this moment of Charlottesville, they are going to try and make an example of her, THE Black woman. She’s brave, but she is afraid.”

[djohn2oo8]

898507852830175232

[boutons_deux]

898507852830175232

the Dred Scott decision was 7-2, any of the other 6 have statues?

[Killakobe81]

Most of these statues were put up long after the Civil War, during the Jim Crow era, at a time when white southerners were still butthurt over losing the war and wanted to flaunt their racism. They have no historical value; the only reason they were ever erected in the first place was to taunt and intimidate black people.

Furthermore, we can remember traitors without honoring them. There are these things called museums, history books, the History Channel, and the Internet. None of them are going to disappear overnight if some cheap, ugly statues are removed.

I don't see a problem with letting the communities vote on whether or not the statues should stay up, tbh. The fearmongering about history being erased has no basis in fact.

well said its a bullshit excuse. personally i dont think statues should be removed ...as a history major takingvit down seems wrong to me ..
but I dont lose sleep over the removal of traitorous icons either. i just dont like the losers 2nd flag ...ill wipe my ass with the stars and bars and dear a white nationalist or confederate patriot to do shit to stop me ...

[RandomGuy]

symbols of states rights.

Revisionist history, that downplays slavery.

Arguing this, without acknowledging why the South wanted to press their "states" rights is a bit like saying it was "the alternator that started the car", without adding that someone was turning the key.

The South didn't give two shits about "states rights", but cared a whole lot about keeping slavery. The South used federalism without hesitation when it suited them, e.g. Fugitive slave laws.

[SnakeBoy]

Hillary mopped the fuckin' floor with Bernie's fuckin' assPERIOD

Yeah that just doesn't work CN.

[pgardn]

Revisionist history, that downplays slavery.

Arguing this, without acknowledging why the South wanted to press their "states" rights is a bit like saying it was "the alternator that started the car", without adding that someone was turning the key.

The South didn't give two shits about "states rights", but cared a whole lot about keeping slavery. The South used federalism without hesitation when it suited them, e.g. Fugitive slave laws.

They cared about slaves mostly because of economics. They used human beings as farm implements. If the North had relied heavily on slaves for economics what's to say they would not have done the same? They would have because THEy DID. Furthermore the largest insurrection took place in the North.

http://www.history.com/news/four-days-of-fire-the-new-york-city-draft-riots

Did living in the North make one morally superior? No.
The history seems to show whites from both sides seeing slavery as morally wrong but the South played the moral slippery slope because economics played a role. There were also people from both sides that saw blacks as stinking animals. Kind of like Thread still does.

[Spurtacular]

Revisionist history, that downplays slavery.

Arguing this, without acknowledging why the South wanted to press their "states" rights is a bit like saying it was "the alternator that started the car", without adding that someone was turning the key.

The South didn't give two shits about "states rights", but cared a whole lot about keeping slavery. The South used federalism without hesitation when it suited them, e.g. Fugitive slave laws.

No, just history. Sure slavery was the catalyst to Southern secession in most cases; but all states believed in secession as a due course of action if necessary. In the early part of the 19th century, it was actually New England states threatening to secede.

In Virginia's Declaration of Causes they make this point patently clear:


The people of Virginia…having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

Now, therefore, we, the people of Virginia, do declare and ordain that the Union between the State of Virginia and the other States under the Constitution aforesaid, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Virginia is in the full possession and exercise of all the rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State. And they do further declare that the said Constitution of the United States of America is no longer binding on any of the citizens of this State.

[Pavlov]

No, just history. Sure slavery was the catalyst to Southern secession in most casesMost cases? In which cases was it not the catalyst? Give us a list.

[RandomGuy]

:lol Oh, you're one of those nutjobs who think the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

Here's a tip: read the Southern states' declarations of secession and take note of what they all say their reason for seceding was - in their own words. It isn't "states' rights," it's slavery.

They aren't all explicit as Mississipi.


In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

[Thread]

I'm gonna drop this in here of a Friday morning.

& nobody can stop me:::

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHbL46AUMAA3Rig.jpg

[RandomGuy]

The nullification of these laws by the Legislatures of two thirds of the non slaveholding States important as it is in itself is additionally as is furnishing evidence of an open disregard of constitutional obligation, and of the rights and interests of the slaveholding States and of a deep and inveterate hostility to the people of these States.

They wanted to keep slavery. The admission of new non-slaveholding states meant that they might be forced to give it up.

"states rights" were used as a patina, a tactic. The goal was explicit. "keep slavery"

http://www.civilwarcauses.org/florida-dec.htm

[Pavlov]

They aren't all explicit as Mississipi.


http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.aspslavery-- the greatest material interest of the world


:cry Muh states' rights heritage. :cry

[boutons_deux]

states rights was the right to keep slaves on whose backs the South's 1% became wealthy.

[RandomGuy]

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Alabama and the other States united under the compact styled "The Constitution of the United States of America"

Whereas, the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of president and vice-president of the United States of America, by a sectional party, avowedly hostile to the domestic institutions and to the peace and security of the people of the State of Alabama, preceded by many and dangerous infractions of the constitution of the United States by many of the States and people of the Northern section, is a political wrong of so insulting and menacing a character as to justify the people of the State of Alabama in the adoption of prompt and decided measures for their future peace and security, therefore:

Be it declared and ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in Convention assembled, That the State of Alabama now withdraws, and is hereby withdrawn from the Union known as "the United States of America," and henceforth ceases to be one of said United States, and is, and of right ought to be a Sovereign and Independent State.

Section 2. Be it further declared and ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Convention assembled, That all powers over the Territory of said State, and over the people thereof, heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America, be and they are hereby withdrawn from said Government, and are hereby resumed and vested in the people of the State of Alabama. And as it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Constitution of the United States,
http://www.civil-war.net/pages/ordinances_secession.asp

(note: not all issued "Declarations" like Mississipi apparently. Most passed ordinances that were more legalistic forms meant to be constitutional in nature)

[RandomGuy]

"No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."
This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution.

"We had a deal. We could keep slaves. We view your actions as going back on that deal."

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/southcarolina_declaration.asp

[RandomGuy]

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Louisiana and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."
We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance passed by us in convention on the November 22, in the year eighteen hundred and eleven, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America and the amendments of the said Constitution were adopted, and all laws and ordinances by which the State of Louisiana became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, repealed and abrogated; and that the union now subsisting between Louisiana and other States under the name of "The United States of America" is hereby dissolved.
We do further declare and ordain, That the State of Louisiana hereby resumes all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government; and that she is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.
We do further declare and ordain, That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or any act of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.
Adopted in convention at Baton Rouge this January 26, 1861

They didn't actually outline their reasons here. Very brief and consise. "We quit".

[RandomGuy]

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery - the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits - a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slaveholding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

"Negroes should be kept in bondage forever."

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/texas_declaration.asp

[RandomGuy]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying there were multiple issues. And for many, the issue was not about upholding slavery but rather Constitutional rights. If you don't follow your Constitution, then tyranny abounds.

What about when your Constitution enshrines evil?

The deal was the slaveholding states got to keep that shit, explicit in the Constitution in several places.

The Constitution also allows for amendments by 2/3 of the states.

Explicit in the statements was a concern that they would have to actually follow the Constitution and accept those amendments, if too many new non-slave states were admitted.

Rather than follow the Constitution they agreed to, they chose to leave, explicitly to keep slavery.

[rjv]

another statue bites the dust:
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/kekbfm.com/files/2015/05/colonel2.jpg

[RandomGuy]

another statue bites the dust:
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/kekbfm.com/files/2015/05/colonel2.jpg

The Yankees are in Chattenooga!!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ybbwaL22j0o/hqdefault.jpg

[rjv]

The problem in considering how to remember events a nation would rather forget is in how to build a more just state from the memory of horrendous crimes. Traditional monuments, with their rigid and unwavering positions on history and their appeal to emotions, resemble the demagoguery of fascism. A better monument would be one that does not displace the past or reduce us to spectators. There are examples of what are called "counter-monuments" that are so much better because they challenge the very premise of their own existence. The Aschtott Fountain in Germany is a perfect example of this. That the U.S. lacks such a "counter-monument" movement speaks to the psyche of American thought when it comes to how we regard our racist DNA. That's why we're so offended when athletes kneel during the anthem or question the ritual of a school's pledge of allegiance; because such actions threaten the premise of America as the greatest nation.

[boutons_deux]

"That's why we're so offended when athletes kneel during the anthem or question the ritual of a school's pledge of allegiance; because such actions threaten the premise of America as the greatest nation"

many aren't offended by kneeling during the bloody, war-loving anthem, when the protest is about the police brutalizing, impoverishing, incarcerating, slaughtering blacks.

America has provided plenty of evidence that it is not the greatest nation which is a masturbatory, self-congratulating myth, is rated the most dangerous nation by other nations, starts wars of choice, tortures captives, tortures its own citizens with solitary confinement, is a failed democracy, etc, etc.

[RandomGuy]

Man, did I kill this thread?

No one wants to try and make the "states rights" bullshit argument anymore? :lol

[Spurtacular]

What about when your Constitution enshrines evil?

The deal was the slaveholding states got to keep that shit, explicit in the Constitution in several places.

The Constitution also allows for amendments by 2/3 of the states.

Explicit in the statements was a concern that they would have to actually follow the Constitution and accept those amendments, if too many new non-slave states were admitted.

Rather than follow the Constitution they agreed to, they chose to leave, explicitly to keep slavery.

The Constitution "enshrined evil" when it called blacks 3/5th of a man. If the North was holier than the South, then they shouldn't have formed a union with them. I'm not trying to defend the peculiar institution. I'm just noting how the North did not meet their contractual obligations.

[Spurtacular]

Man, did I kill this thread?

No one wants to try and make the "states rights" bullshit argument anymore? :lol

It doesn't need to be in quotes. States rights are a solid concept ingrained into the Constitution. But yea, you are a bit of a buzzkill.

[Pavlov]

I'm not trying to defend the peculiar institution. I'm just noting how the North did not meet their contractual obligations.:lmao The contract to preserve slavery forever?

Where's that document?

[Spurtacular]

:lmao The contract to preserve slavery forever?

Where's that document?

It wasn't a secret that the South had slaves in 1789, dude.

[Pavlov]

It wasn't a secret that the South had slaves in 1789, dude.Where is the contract to preserve slavery forever?

Apparently that's a secret.

[Spurtacular]

Where is the contract to preserve slavery forever?

Apparently that's a secret.

Not going to debate your gay arguments, dude.

[Pavlov]

Not going to back up my arguments, dude.:lmao

[SnakeBoy]

ESPN pulls announcer Robert Lee from covering a Virginia football game because his name is Robert Lee
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/espn-pulls-announcer-robert-lee-covering-virginia-football-article-1.3434079

:lol Dis guy might trigger liberals

http://www.redstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/robert-lee.jpg


900192529672491009


smh today's democrats

[Pavlov]

San Antonio not wasting any time.

http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/65/41/44/14031142/3/920x920.jpg

San Antonio removing Confederate statue in Travis Park (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/San-Antonio-removing-Confederate-statue-in-Travis-12165970.php#photo-14031142)

Buh-bye

[AaronY]

ESPN pulls announcer Robert Lee from covering a Virginia football game because his name is Robert Lee
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/espn-pulls-announcer-robert-lee-covering-virginia-football-article-1.3434079

:lol Dis guy might trigger liberals

http://www.redstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/robert-lee.jpg


900192529672491009


smh today's democrats
Wtf. That really happened? :lol

[RandomGuy]

The Constitution "enshrined evil" when it called blacks 3/5th of a man. If the North was holier than the South, then they shouldn't have formed a union with them. I'm not trying to defend the peculiar institution. I'm just noting how the North did not meet their contractual obligations.

The North bent over backwards to live up to its obligations.

The South didn't want to live up to its obligations.

The South was fine with using Federal power to force Northern states to send escaped slaves back into bondage. When Northern states passed laws the South used Federalism to strike that down.

At some point, the South was going to be forced, by the terms it agreed to, to give up slavery as there would eventually be a constitutional amendment against it, and certainly explicit federal laws against it.

[RandomGuy]

It doesn't need to be in quotes. States rights are a solid concept ingrained into the Constitution. But yea, you are a bit of a buzzkill.

Sure states have rights in the constitution.

But it wasn't "states rights" made the South attack the North. It was over slavery. The South was very clear about that in their direct Declarations of Secession. Kind of hard to say "states rights" when that phrase is completely absent from the documents, but multiple mentions of "negro bondage" pop up.



Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery - the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits - a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slaveholding States of the confederacy. ...

"Negroes should be kept in bondage forever."

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/texas_declaration.asp

[Spurtacular]

At some point, the South was going to be forced, by the terms it agreed to, to give up slavery as there would eventually be a constitutional amendment against it, and certainly explicit federal laws against it.

You suck at history (in addition to politics) if you think a constitutional amendment was in the works. That said, I have said that certain changes in economy could have made slavery less tenable and subject to abandonment.

[boutons_deux]

The racism in Gen. Kelly’s Civil War comments runs deep in the strand of evangelicalism that helped elect Trash

“Honorable” is not apt label for a slaveholding traitor,

Kelly’s opinion shocked many, but for others it invoked a familiar framework about the Civil War that protects white supremacy and which is at the core of one of the most influential strands of today’s evangelicalism: the strand that help elect Donald Trump.

On twitter, as part of the #emptythepews hashtag, ex-evangelical @toriglass wrote, “to be honest, evangelicals never stopped debating whether slavery was actually bad.”

The war was framed as a theological conflict in which Southern culture was an expression of a Godly civilization battling against a materialistic “humanistic” one.

These were not “fringe views” in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, throughout which almost all white American Christians supported slavery and understood it as completely compatible (https://religiondispatches.org/becks-dream-our-nightmare/) with the Bible

nineteenth-century Southern Presbyterian theologian, R.L Dabney (https://www.theocracywatch.org/civil_war_canadian_review.htm). Dabney wrote extensively also against women’s rights and universal suffrage.

By the time Dabney’s work was revived in the twentieth century by R.J. Rushdoony (about whom I wrote here (https://www.amazon.com/Building-Gods-Kingdom-Christian-Reconstruction/dp/0199913781)), the explicit defense of slavery had moved to the fringes in favor of vigorous defense of segregation—but its racist undercurrents persisted.

By the end of the twentieth century, theologian Doug Wilson repeated Dabney’s and Rushdoony’s proslavery arguments in his book Southern Slavery as It Was (https://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/Documents/060175768QRAsouthern_slavery_as_it_was.pdf) (co-authored with League of the South Board member Steve Wilkins)

Wilson travels in circles with the most prominent of Reformed Christian leaders (here (https://vimeo.com/76163737) is an example in which he appears with well-known theologian and popular John Piper).

Back in 2009 historian Molly Worthen (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/24.42.html) noted Wilson’s transition from the far right fringe into the mainstream of American Evangelicalism.

And until Doug Phillips lost his business and his ministry (in a scandal (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-ingersoll/doug-phillips-the-big-scandal_b_4195155.html) surrounding his inappropriate interactions with his nanny in 2014) he was one of the most important home school leaders in the country.

evangelicals influenced by this Southern Presbyterianism have sought to carefully lay out the limits of the places in which the text permits slavery—

claiming that most of biblical slavery was temporary as a result of debt or war, or that it was “voluntary.”

If you dig deep in their work you find that only “pagans” can be forced into perpetual slavery—though of course for them that’s any group not understood as Christian on their rather narrow terms.

A generation of evangelical kids in Christian schools and home schools were taught aspects of this narrative about the Civil War and America slavery.

It went mainstream with David Barton, Glenn Beck and the rise of the Tea Party, and has now found a home in the West Wing with V.P. Mike Pence and numerous members of the cabinet.

But while you have to dig deep to find the really ugly stuff, much of it goes no deeper than “there were good people on both sides.”

The rest often remains unspoken.

evangelicalism is silencing criticism (https://thewayofimprovement.com/2017/10/31/the-latest-from-liberty-university/) within its own ranks as part of its Faustian bargain with Donald Trump, as some 80% of them voted (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/10/17/the-irony-of-trumps-embrace-of-white-evangelical-voters/?utm_term=.b5cc31fe158b) for him.

And over the last fifty years obscure factions within the evangelical tradition laid the groundwork for the mainstreaming of what were previously fringe views about race, about the South, and about the civil War.

That evangelicalism is deeply implicated in white supremacy gets clearer by the day.

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/the-racism-in-gen-kellys-civil-war-comments-runs-deep-in-the-strand-of-evangelicalism-that-helped-elect-trump/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[Pavlov]

That was relatively easy....
1083832672865185798

[spurraider21]

:cry heritage not hate :cry

[Winehole23]

Tarrant Co. GOP kicked Islamophobe bigots in the nuts last night, Confederate plaque is out of the Capital today.

Good times.

[baseline bum]

Tarrant Co. GOP kicked Islamophobe bigots in the nuts last night, Confederate plaque is out of the Capital today.

Good times.

White nationalist in the White House still threatening to seize king powers in the name of an emergency, and if he threatens it he will probably try to do it.

Bad times.

[Winehole23]

Fair enough

[TeyshaBlue]

Mercifully right now his lawyers are seeing no way to win this battle. That’s why they’re pushing the national security narrative so strongly, along with graham and other select safe senators and congressmen

Add the fact that there are still enough r congresspeople and senators that would have to answer for this that it’s going to take awhile longer to message enough to take the step. Of course they will still keep the government shut down over a bullshit lie for now. In the next couple months when people really start hurting, it will be interesting to see what propaganda they use to keep the sheep in line.

It also allows them to push back tax returns a while too. Keep people from seeing what the new tax bill really did to poor and working poor and lower middle class people.

Not to mention the FBI stopped receiving paychecks as a result of the shut down. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if this wasn't a major driver.

[DarrinS]

White nationalist in the White House still threatening to seize king powers in the name of an emergency, and if he threatens it he will probably try to do it.

Bad times.


If he's a white nationalist, he sure sucks at it


* Passed criminal justice reform
* Designated MLK birthplace as national historic park
* Commuted sentence of Alice Marie Johnson and posthumously pardoned Jack Johnson

[baseline bum]

If he's a white nationalist, he sure sucks at it


* Passed criminal justice reform
* Designated MLK birthplace as national historic park
* Commuted sentence of Alice Marie Johnson and posthumously pardoned Jack Johnson

You're right, he does suck at it since he's not going to get his wall. LOL pardoning a dead guy, signing an already veto-proof piece of legislation, pardoning someone as a favor to Kanye's wife, and making MLK's house a national park being some great accomplishments for race relations.

[Pavlov]

If he's a white nationalist, he sure sucks at it


* Passed criminal justice reform
* Designated MLK birthplace as national historic park
* Commuted sentence of Alice Marie Johnson and posthumously pardoned Jack Johnson:lol
Seriously Darrin, who gave you this list?

[DarrinS]

:lol
Seriously Darrin, who gave you this list?

ThingsWhiteNationalistsWouldNeverDo.com

:lmao

[FrostKing]

No heritage
No tradition
No allegiance

Avoid building the Wall so you can escape

[baseline bum]

How is the wall, the constant whining about caravans, and caging kids not just pure racist white nationalism when it's already established how much Trump loves illegal immigration in his businesses?

[DarrinS]

How is the wall, the constant whining about caravans, and caging kids not just pure racist white nationalism when it's already established how much Trump loves illegal immigration in his businesses?

We simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked.

[Pavlov]

ThingsWhiteNationalistsWouldNeverDo.com

:lmao
I said seriously, Darrin.

Where did you get this Trump=Lincoln list?

[Pavlov]

We simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked.We don't.

Is there a crisis on the border, Darrin?

Yes or no.

[DarrinS]

We simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked.

Forgot to credit source

“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, lawfully to become immigrants in this country” — 2005, Senator Barack Obama.

[DarrinS]

How is the wall, the constant whining about caravans, and caging kids not just pure racist white nationalism when it's already established how much Trump loves illegal immigration in his businesses?

https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

[Pavlov]

Forgot to credit source

“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, lawfully to become immigrants in this country” — 2005, Senator Barack Obama.

And we don't.

Is there a crisis on the border, Darrin?

Yes or no.

[Pavlov]

Darrin's answer to every question is "Black President."

[DarrinS]

Darrin's answer to every question is "Black President."

Obama, Hillary, and Biden voted for 2006 secure fence act. Are they white nationalists?

[Pavlov]

Obama, Hillary, and Biden voted for 2006 secure fence act. Are they white nationalists?
Nope.

Is there a crisis at the border, Darrin?

Yes or no.

[Will Hunting]

We simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked.
Why is it necessary to separate families and to cage kids? There’s plenty of ways to enforce against illegal immigration without doing that.

[baseline bum]

Forgot to credit source

“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, lawfully to become immigrants in this country” — 2005, Senator Barack Obama.

What the fuck does that have to with Trump being hardline anti illegal while hiring illegals?

[Pavlov]

What the fuck does that have to with Trump being hardline anti illegal while hiring illegals?Darrin: "Black President. Black President. Black President."

[DarrinS]

Darrin: "Black President. Black President. Black President."

You're the only one saying "black president"

[Pavlov]

You're the only one saying "black president"It's in every one of your "answers."

Is there a crisis on the border right now, Darrin?

Yes or no.

[FrostKing]

What's wrong with "white nationalist"?

Majority white nation. Looking after your own is bad?

[boutons_deux]

TX Repugs cement the case that TX is a racist shithole

TX racists elect racist politicians


The Texas GOP’s War of Municipal Aggression

With their approval of a bill to “protect” Confederate monuments from liberal city halls,

Senate Republicans exposed the raw racial dynamics of the party’s preemption crusade.

https://www.texasobserver.org/confederate-monuments-gop-texas-preemption/ (https://www.texasobserver.org/confederate-monuments-gop-texas-preemption/)

[Pavlov]

lol local control

[Spurtacular]

Why is it necessary to separate families and to cage kids? There’s plenty of ways to enforce against illegal immigration without doing that.

:cry

[Winehole23]

UNC "donates" $2.5 million to build a museum for a Confederate participation trophy:

1201489230956056578

[boutons_deux]

Texas Senate to review chamber’s art, including Confederate paintings

A special committee will consider whether to change the art hanging in the Texas Senate,

which includes several paintings of Confederate leaders.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2019/12/02/texas-senate-to-review-chambers-art-including-confederate-paintings/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Calls+for+Beto+O+Rourke+to+run+for+Sen ate%2C+what+Dems+think+of+GOP+s+blunder%2C+UT+stud ents++unprecedented+demands&utm_campaign=Politics_120219 (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2019/12/02/texas-senate-to-review-chambers-art-including-confederate-paintings/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Calls+for+Beto+O+Rourke+to+run+for+Sen ate%2C+what+Dems+think+of+GOP+s+blunder%2C+UT+stud ents++unprecedented+demands&utm_campaign=Politics_120219)

[Winehole23]

UNC "donates" $2.5 million to build a museum for a Confederate participation trophy:

1201489230956056578Interesting wrinkle, the SCV is split over taking the money.


One member said he joined the SCV within the last decade after learning about his family tree and gaining a newfound appreciation for his Confederate ancestors. But he described an increasingly “scary” presence within the group in the time since.
“I do not like Nazis,” he said. “My uncle and my great grandpa went over there to kill Nazis. I don’t like none of that crap, and some of these guys, for some reason, that draws them to something.”
Stone revealed to SCV members in a Nov. 27 email that months of secret dealings with members of the UNC System Board of Governors had preceded a settlement he “never dreamed we could accomplish... and all at the expense of the University itself.”
Disgruntled members are expressing desires to squash the deal and give the money back. A common fear they shared is that the current deal will empower what they see as the SCV’s most problematic wing: the mechanized cavalry, a nationwide special interest group of motorcycle-riding members which Stone has helmed for around 10 years.
The Silent Sam settlement could lead to UNC System money funding a new headquarters and museum that one member predicts will have “racist overtones” and further enable a nefarious transition.
“Kevin Stone is no more interested in Silent Sam and what it stands for than the man on the moon,” the member said. “He sees this money as a pot of gold to build himself and his biker gang a massive headquarters.”
https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2019/12/confederate-internal-conflict

[RandomGuy]

Interesting wrinkle, the SCV is split over taking the money.

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2019/12/confederate-internal-conflict

If some university offered $2.5M to settle a suit with ANTIFA before it was filed... can you imagine? wow.

[RandomGuy]

Sitting bull monument. Gotta go they lost. - Chumpdumper

https://www.mobridge.org/img-mobridge/sitting_bull_(480x640).jpg

:lmao


That's a grave, dude.

:rollin

wow. Sorry I missed that exchange. hater :lmao

[RandomGuy]

In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

The hostility to this institution commenced before the adoption of the Constitution, and was manifested in the well-known Ordinance of 1787, in regard to the Northwestern Territory.

The feeling increased, until, in 1819-20, it deprived the South of more than half the vast territory acquired from France.
The same hostility dismembered Texas and seized upon all the territory acquired from Mexico.

It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.

It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.

It tramples the original equality of the South under foot.

It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact, which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.

It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/mississippi_declaration.asp

This right there puts it all to rest, IMO.

First bold section:
"it was about slavery"

Second bold section:
"we wanted federal government telling states what to do, because we hated other state's laws"

[ChumpDumper]

Interesting wrinkle, the SCV is split over taking the money.

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2019/12/confederate-internal-conflictSo there seems to be some common link between the CSA and Nazi Germany?

What could it be?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This right there puts it all to rest, IMO.

First bold section:
"it was about slavery"

Second bold section:
"we wanted federal government telling states what to do, because we hated other state's laws"

Every state that seceded listed slaves and/or loss of property as cause in their declaration. It's sad that people are too willfully ignorant to not look for themselves.

[spurraider21]

Virginia governor to announce removal of Lee statue (https://apnews.com/75e6f0d57a896207551c1c0e8868cb27)


governor blackface doing a good thing

[DMC]

Virginia governor to announce removal of Lee statue (https://apnews.com/75e6f0d57a896207551c1c0e8868cb27)


governor blackface doing a good thing

Yes, removing a statue will save a lot of lives.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, removing a statue will save a lot of lives.Are you for or against the removal of the confederate statutes?

[baseline bum]

Virginia governor to announce removal of Lee statue (https://apnews.com/75e6f0d57a896207551c1c0e8868cb27)


governor blackface doing a good thing

Should just let that piece of shit get torn down. Good riddance Robert E Loser.

[ChumpDumper]

Should just let that piece of shit get torn down. Good riddance Robert E Loser.That Grant documentary did a good job of shitting on Lee and the other traitors.

[spurraider21]

Yes, removing a statue will save a lot of lives.
does that have to be the objective?

[ChumpDumper]

Oh yeah....
1269075089078784001

[rascal]

Don't honor loser traitors.

[rascal]

Black Hawk statue is on a state park

Gotta go? :lmao chump :lol

Don't compare the native American Indians with the traitor Confederacy.