The misplaced arguments against Black Lives Matter

[RandomGuy]

ON AUGUST 15th Donald Trump repeated his belief that “both sides” were to blame for the violence on August 12th at a white-supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia that left one woman dead. David Duke, a former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, thanked him for “condemn[ing] the leftist terrorists in BLM,” referring to the Black Lives Matter movement. David Clarke, the sheriff of Milwaukee County and a supporter of Mr Trump, has also called Black Lives Matter “purveyors of hate”, and urged the Southern Poverty Law Centre (SPLC), to include it among the hate groups it monitors. Many on the right share this belief. It is mistaken.

To be sure, some protestors who claim affiliation with BLM have said hateful things. A group outside the Minnesota State Fair chanted, “Pigs in a blanket; fry ‘em like bacon”. The previous night a sheriff’s deputy had been shot in Houston, for which some BLM opponents blame the movement—without evidence. Some have blamed BLM for the fatal car crash in Charlottesville last weekend, saying it happened because BLM supporters were throwing bricks at the car. The movement may have begun with honourable intentions, one argument runs, but it has been “hijacked by a group that hates white people and looks to burn down cities and towns”. And some seem to object to the name, hearing in the phrase “Black lives matter” the implication that other lives do not.

That argument is easily dismissed. Affirming one thing does not negate all else. Donating money to support, say, cancer research does not make one a cheerleader for tuberculosis. Someone who says that black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not—they are simply reminding people that for most of American history black lives have been valued less than white ones. The days of slavery and de jure segregation have mercifully passed, but black Americans remain poorer, less healthy and more likely to be killed by police than whites. You can agree or disagree with BLM’s platform, but nothing in it promotes hatred of any race or group.

Richard Cohen, who heads the SPLC, defines hate groups as “those that vilify entire groups of people based on immutable characteristics such as race or ethnicity”. BLM does not fit the bill: it welcomes white supporters, has condemned violence and addresses structural racial inequities. Jacob Levy, a political philosopher, argues that BLM is “one of the most significant political mobilisations in defence of freedom” in decades. Its supporters oppose police brutality, mass incarceration, America’s drug war, police militarisation and civil-forfeiture abuses. All of those are causes that liberals, libertarians and conservatives—anyone who fears unchecked state power—ought to cheer.


https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2017/08/economist-explains-15

[tlongII]

Are you saying Trump's statement that "both sides were to blame" is wrong because of something David Duke said?

[RandomGuy]

Are you saying Trump's statement that "both sides were to blame" is wrong because of something David Duke said?

No, not really.

I would say that trope is wrong, because that isn't what the vast majority of the eyewitness accounts say.

The violence was overwhelmingly initiated by the Nazis.

[tlongII]

No, not really.

I would say that trope is wrong, because that isn't what the vast majority of the eyewitness accounts say.

The violence was overwhelmingly initiated by the Nazis.

"Overwhelmingly" doesn't mean nothing was initiated by the far left. Trump even specifically condemned the KKK, neo-nazis, and white supremacists 2 days later. I am surprised people make such a big deal over his statements on this.

[RandomGuy]

"Overwhelmingly" doesn't mean nothing was initiated by the far left. Trump even specifically condemned the KKK, neo-nazis, and white supremacists 2 days later. I am surprised people make such a big deal over his statements on this.

Sure, some small amount of people went there and did some things to the poor helpless Nazis.

The entirety of the Nazis went there specifically to be violent.

If you think Trump meant any word of his prepared script, you are a fool. He went back on it less than a day later, and started drawing moral equivalency between the two groups.

The two aren't equal. The far-right Nazis were much, much more in the wrong in every way than anyone on the left.

[RandomGuy]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c1/a6/85/c1a685c90ef8110eb38eaebad9381310--obi-wan-kenobi-quotes-meaningful-quotes.jpg

[Pavlov]

"Overwhelmingly" doesn't mean nothing was initiated by the far left. Trump even specifically condemned the KKK, neo-nazis, and white supremacists 2 days later. I am surprised people make such a big deal over his statements on this.:lmao

[tlongII]

Sure, some small amount of people went there and did some things to the poor helpless Nazis.

The entirety of the Nazis went there specifically to be violent.

If you think Trump meant any word of his prepared script, you are a fool. He went back on it less than a day later, and started drawing moral equivalency between the two groups.

The two aren't equal. The far-right Nazis were much, much more in the wrong in every way than anyone on the left.

So you think Trump is a neo-nazi, white supremacist, or KKK member? Or possibly all 3? That is the only possible explanation for not believing Trump meant his scripted statement.

[Pavlov]

So you think Trump is a neo-nazi, white supremacist, or KKK member? Or possibly all 3? That is the only possible explanation for not believing Trump meant his scripted statement.It's possible he values the support of such groups to some degree without being a member of any.

[tlongII]

It's possible he values the support of such groups to some degree without being a member of any.

I don't think so. Their support does more harm than good. I think he knows that.

[Pavlov]

I don't think so. Their support does more harm than good. I think he knows that.2 days later he try to walk it back, but the next day he walked back the walking back. The "both sides" bullshit is trying to walk det fine line between pandering and denouncing.

[boutons_deux]

"only possible explanation for not believing Trump"

believe Trash? :lol

[RandomGuy]

I don't think so. Their support does more harm than good. I think he knows that.

Quite the opposite.

He knows that white racists are the core of his base. The violent parts hurt him, but he goes out of his way not to antagonize them, because they are so thoroughly mixed in with his core.

As Pav/Chump noted he values their support without being an active member of any white supremacy movement.

[tlongII]

Quite the opposite.

He knows that white racists are the core of his base. The violent parts hurt him, but he goes out of his way not to antagonize them, because they are so thoroughly mixed in with his core.

As Pav/Chump noted he values their support without being an active member of any white supremacy movement.

That is ridiculous. I agree that white racists are included in his supporters, but to call them the core of his base is hyperbole.

[RandomGuy]

That is ridiculous. I agree that white racists are included in his supporters, but to call them the core of his base is hyperbole.

Dixiecrats.

The core of his base are white racists.


Trump's strongest backers tend to be older, white, male and those who do not hold college degrees.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/205832/race-education-gender-key-factors-trump-job-approval.aspx

It is not hyperbole.

It is a very arguable assertion, reasonably backed by a fair amount of polling data.

(edit)

To be clear:

Not all of his supporters are white racists.

Most white racists are Trump supporters.

[Splits]

Definitely not racist

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/tlongII/tlongII.jpg

[tlongII]

Dixiecrats.

The core of his base are white racists.



http://www.gallup.com/poll/205832/race-education-gender-key-factors-trump-job-approval.aspx

It is not hyperbole.

It is a very arguable assertion, reasonably backed by a fair amount of polling data.

(edit)

To be clear:

Not all of his supporters are white racists.

Most white racists are Trump supporters.

That is hyperbole. If you dont recognize this I can't help you.

[Aztecfan03]

Its supporters oppose police lives

fixed that for you.

[Pavlov]

fixed that for you.Every single one?

[Chinook]

That is hyperbole. If you dont recognize this I can't help you.

Wouldn't think of that as hyperbole, but it's not logically consistent. We can all agree that most white nationals preferred Trump, but that was far from the only reason why people supported him. The unfortunate thing, though, is that's like the only group whose faith in Trump has been rewarded so far.

[hater]

Wouldn't think of that as hyperbole, but it's not logically consistent. We can all agree that most white nationals preferred Trump, but that was far from the only reason why people supported him. The unfortunate thing, though, is that's like the only group whose faith in Trump has been rewarded so far.

Can you name one groupd besides wall street, MIC that was rewarded because of their faith in Obama?

[leemajors]

Can you name one groupd besides wall street, MIC that was rewarded because of their faith in Obama?

Are they still not being rewarded?

[hater]

Are they still not being rewarded?

Who besides wall street and the mic??

[Chinook]

Can you name one groupd besides wall street, MIC that was rewarded because of their faith in Obama?
I can.

[hater]

I can.

Go ahead

[pgardn]

No, not really.

I would say that trope is wrong, because that isn't what the vast majority of the eyewitness accounts say.

The violence was overwhelmingly initiated by the Nazis.

Oh.

The guys that came weaponized started crap.
Go figure.

Holy shit...

They were just standing their ground.
Dammit, I forgot the right to come to a rally with a neckbeard and a truncheon.

[pgardn]

Who besides wall street and the mic??

The entire Trump family you frkn Bozo.

[Chinook]

Go ahead

Appreciate the permission.

[RandomGuy]

That is hyperbole. If you dont recognize this I can't help you.

Define hyperbole as you are using it here. I would be happy to take it back, if it was. Let's see if we can figure it out.

[RandomGuy]

Oh.

The guys that came weaponized started crap.
Go figure.

Holy shit...

They were just standing their ground.
Dammit, I forgot the right to come to a rally with a neckbeard and a truncheon.

The most interesting thing about this is that the ACLU is not going to help them anymore due to the presence of so many people armed to the teeth.

[hater]

Appreciate the permission.

Cant name one, can you?

[tlongII]

Define hyperbole as you are using it here. I would be happy to take it back, if it was. Let's see if we can figure it out.

hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric; informalpurple prose, puffery


You are effectively stating that all older, white non-college educated males are racists. That is hyperbole.

[RandomGuy]

hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric; informalpurple prose, puffery


You are effectively stating that all older, white non-college educated males are racists. That is hyperbole.

No. I am arguing that most white racists are older, non-college educated males. That is statistic, provable reality.

If the core of your support is that group, you will logically have a disproportionate share of racists in your core.

How exactly is that an exaggerated statement?

I suppose I could try to draw a Ven diagram to map it out, would that help?

[Chinook]

Cant name one, can you?

I can.

[SpursforSix]

No. I am arguing that most white racists are older, non-college educated males. That is statistic, provable reality.

If the core of your support is that group, you will logically have a disproportionate share of racists in your core.

How exactly is that an exaggerated statement?

I suppose I could try to draw a Ven diagram to map it out, would that help?

I don't need the Venn (2 "n"s) diagram but I would like to see some backup for "statistic, provable reality".
I don't disagree with the assumption but also can't see how that would be provable.

[hater]

I can.

Havent named one yet. Liar

[RandomGuy]

I don't need the Venn (2 "n"s) diagram but I would like to see some backup for "statistic, provable reality".
I don't disagree with the assumption but also can't see how that would be provable.

Sorry about the typo.

Glad you asked.

Polling data showing general attitudes. Burden of proof is on me, since it is my claim. I will try to find the data, and get back here with what I find.

[Chinook]

Havent named one yet. Liar

I've done nothing but tell the truth

[hater]

I've done nothing but tell the truth

8 years in office and not even 1 group can be named outside the 1%ers that benefited from an Obama presidency

Sad!

[hater]

Oh shoot just thought of one

ISIS

:pctoss

[Chinook]

8 years in office and not even 1 group can be named outside the 1%ers that benefited from an Obama presidency

Sad!

Disagree with that.

[SpursforSix]

Sorry about the typo.

Glad you asked.

Polling data showing general attitudes. Burden of proof is on me, since it is my claim. I will try to find the data, and get back here with what I find.

LOL..."typo". I can't prove that it's not. I'm looking forward to your proof of your claim.

[hater]

Disagree with that.

Yeah forgot about ISIS

My bad

[hitmanyr2k]

8 years in office and not even 1 group can be named outside the 1%ers that benefited from an Obama presidency

Sad!

Auto workers, suppliers. Employees in the healthcare industry.

[hater]

Auto workers, suppliers. Employees in the healthcare industry.

He did bail out the auto industry that is true but one could say the auto workers did not fare better they just avoided a collapse

I dont see how health care workers are better

[tlongII]

No. I am arguing that most white racists are older, non-college educated males. That is statistic, provable reality.

If the core of your support is that group, you will logically have a disproportionate share of racists in your core.

How exactly is that an exaggerated statement?

I suppose I could try to draw a Ven diagram to map it out, would that help?

You should read your original post again and get back to me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

8 years in office and not even 1 group can be named outside the 1%ers that benefited from an Obama presidency

Sad!

Who do you think cash for clunkers benefitted?
I'm not sure how ObamaCare helped the 1%.
His executive orders regarding immigration like DREAMERS certainly did not.

That is just off the top of my head.

[boutons_deux]

Who do you think cash for clunkers benefitted?
I'm not sure how ObamaCare helped the 1%.
His executive orders regarding immigration like DREAMERS certainly did not.

That is just off the top of my head.

Hated by Repugs (who started it), the Obama stimulus saved about 3M jobs.

Then there are the jobs at GM/Chrysler, plus all the jobs at the suppliers and subcontractors to GM/Chrysler

Then their are the 10Ks of people whose lives were improved, or even SAVED, by ACA, and all the jobs that ACA created.

Goddam, religion and hate makes rightwingers blind and stupid as fuck

[Thread]

Hated by Repugs (who started it), the Obama stimulus saved about 3M jobs.

Then there are the jobs at GM/Chrysler, plus all the jobs at the suppliers and subcontractors to GM/Chrysler

Then their are the 10Ks of people whose lives were improved, or even SAVED, by ACA, and all the jobs that ACA created.

Goddam, religion and hate makes rightwingers blind and stupid as fuck

Zero did not go back in there. Uh, uh. He thought he was.

He was dead wrong.

Trump President. Not Clinton.

[hater]

Who do you think cash for clunkers benefitted?
I'm not sure how ObamaCare helped the 1%.
His executive orders regarding immigration like DREAMERS certainly did not.

That is just off the top of my head.

Nope. Obama continued worsening income inequality and deported more ppl than W

Income Inequality Worse Under Obama Than George W. Bush

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1419008


President Barack Obama has often been referred to by immigration groups as the "Deporter in Chief."

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story%3fid=41715661
I

[pgardn]

Nope. Obama continued worsening income inequality and deported more ppl than W

Income Inequality Worse Under Obama Than George W. Bush

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1419008


President Barack Obama has often been referred to by immigration groups as the "Deporter in Chief."

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story%3fid=41715661
I

And now look who Hater cites?
Any news that happens to mention a smidgen of his often retarded worldview.

The very mainstream media he bashes in the US which can't be trusted.

[Chucho]

The drug cartels and Arab extremists got to kill more people with the guns Obama sold them. That made them happy, so you can say drug dealer and terrorist lives were improved under the Obama administration.

The espionage community made out pretty well by spying on all of us.

[DMC]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c1/a6/85/c1a685c90ef8110eb38eaebad9381310--obi-wan-kenobi-quotes-meaningful-quotes.jpg

Tautology but cute.