Russia launches massive war games on NATO's eastern flank

[RandomGuy]

100,000+ troops.

Moving into Belarus

More than likely going to leave a garrison in the country, if past history is any guide, which it usually is.



----------------------------

Moscow (AFP) - Russia on Thursday began huge joint military exercises with Belarus along the European Union's eastern flank in a show of strength that has rattled nervous NATO members.

Named Zapad-2017 (West-2017), the manoeuvres are scheduled to last until September 20. They are being conducted on the territory of Moscow's closest ally Belarus, in Russia's European exclave of Kaliningrad and in its frontier Pskov and Leningrad regions.

Moscow says the drills involve 12,700 troops, 70 aircraft, 250 tanks and 10 battleships testing their firepower against an imaginary foe close to borders with Poland and the Baltic States.

Russia's defence ministry insisted the manoeuvres were "of a strictly defensive nature and are not directed against any other state or group of countries."

But NATO claims Russia has kept it in the dark and could be massively underreporting the scale of the exercises, which some of the alliance's eastern members say involves more than 100,000 servicemen.

The war games come with tensions between Russia and NATO at their highest since the Cold War due to the Kremlin's meddling in Ukraine and the US-led alliance bolstering its forces in eastern Europe.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-launches-war-games-natos-eastern-flank-064207858.html

Prediction:

Trump will do nothing.

[boutons_deux]

Intimidating NATO and esp the Baltics.

Repugs, evangelicals, white male nationalists ADORE Macho Man Pootin

[hater]

Just responding to NATOs massive wargames tbqh


This is going to go tit for tat till the first major city is melted down in nuclear hellfire

[Axl Rose]

Lol a citizen of the USA complaining about war games and military drills.

[RandomGuy]

Lol a citizen of the USA complaining about war games and military drills.

Not really complaining. Let their feeble ass military do its shit. "drunk, poorly trained, but there are a lot of them". The economy of the state of Texas is larger than that of Russia, which is experiencing a demographic implosion.

Worth noting, though, is how blatantly their government is lying about the size of the exercise to keep observers away.

[hater]

Lol a citizen of the USA complaining about war games and military drills.

:lmao

Its like a fat guy complaining about the buffet serving portions of others :lmao

[RandomGuy]

:lmao

Its like a fat guy complaining about the buffet serving portions of others :lmao

Why do you think Russia is lying about how many troops are involved?

[Axl Rose]

Why would anyone want to tell potential adversaries specific details about their military operations

[Chris]

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/1497-obama-signs-belarus-sanctions-calls-belarus-president-a-dictator

https://www.rferl.org/a/us-belarus-sanctions-national-emergency/25016661.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/04/obamacare-network-vulnerable-to-cyber-attack.html

This was set up by Barry and his Globalist buddies. Now the Left will look to Trump to clean up ANOTHER mess while asking for an impeachment. Jesus, these people are sick.

[hater]

Why do you think Russia is lying about how many troops are involved?
:rolleyes

US just finished massive drills with thousands of US troops in the black sea and baltics

Thats equivalent to Russia having drills in Mexico :rolleyes


Whaaa! The Russians are coming!! They are having drill in their own country!!! :lmao

[RandomGuy]

:rolleyes

US just finished massive drills with thousands of US troops in the black sea and baltics

Thats equivalent to Russia having drills in Mexico :rolleyes


Whaaa! The Russians are coming!! They are having drill in their own country!!! :lmao

That doesn't really say why you think the Russians lied about how many troops they had in their war games.

Why do you think they lied?

[RandomGuy]

Why would anyone want to tell potential adversaries specific details about their military operations

Treaty obligations, and avoiding nuclear war.

[Splits]

Is shit real yet?

[RandomGuy]

Is shit real yet?

Nah. Russia is just using the exercises to establish a permanent presence in Belarus, a client state.

Not hugely earthshattering in terms of significance. They are trying to add strategic depth, and reinforce what they view as their sphere of influence.

Another waste of money, IMO.

It does give them a modest amount of leverage, and does fit into a pattern of solidifying their position, at least in their heads.

[Axl Rose]

Treaty obligations, and avoiding nuclear war.
We are not going to nuke them over a military drill

[hater]

That doesn't really say why you think the Russians lied about how many troops they had in their war games.

Why do you think they lied?

But it does explain you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Especially because Nato observers were invited

Wake me up when Russia sends thousands to the mexican border and performs wargames there :rolleyes

[RandomGuy]

But it does explain you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Especially because Nato observers were invited

Wake me up when Russia sends thousands to the mexican border and performs wargames there :rolleyes

So you don't have an opinion as to why Russia would lie?

[RandomGuy]

We are not going to nuke them over a military drill

You should read a little more on NATO military doctrine, and MAD. Yes, we would.

[spurraider21]

You should read a little more on NATO military doctrine, and MAD. Yes, we would.
Bruh

[hater]

So you don't have an opinion as to why Russia would lie?

So our military never lies?

:lmao wow

[hater]

Just yesterday I just read articles about US covertly still supplying arms to rebels and terrorists in syria

Despite them claiming they stopped it

Yeah but God forbid Russia lies about the number of trrops in their drills within their country which are open to the public btw :lmao

[Axl Rose]

You should read a little more on NATO military doctrine, and MAD. Yes, we would.
Dude, we are not ending all life on the planet over some former soviet republics, and if our leaders really would do that then they need to go right now.

[pgardn]

So now Poland and others will receive more arms from us eventually and we will use things like this as an excuse.

[pgardn]

Intimidating NATO and esp the Baltics.

Repugs, evangelicals, white male nationalists ADORE Macho Man Pootin

Boots this is so old and tired.
Trump has already shown no love for Russia from a military standpoint.
In fact he is more likely to counter Russian moves or even provoke them IMO.
He already has.

[pgardn]

Just yesterday I just read articles about US covertly still supplying arms to rebels and terrorists in syria

Despite them claiming they stopped it

Yeah but God forbid Russia lies about the number of trrops in their drills within their country which are open to the public btw :lmao

Still defending the gas man Assad... Syria is in pieces. We will eventually push for the Kurds and other "terrorists" to maintain control of some parts. All Kurds are terrorists according to your friends the Turks? You see how mixed up your dumb ass is?

[RandomGuy]

So our military never lies?

:lmao wow

That isn't an opinion as to why Russia would lie about how many troops it was moving around.

Why would Russia lie about that?

[RandomGuy]

Boots this is so old and tired.
Trump has already shown no love for Russia from a military standpoint.
In fact he is more likely to counter Russian moves or even provoke them IMO.
He already has.


But then, predicting what Trump will, or won't do is sort of a mugs game. He never fails to do the stupidest shit possible, just when you think he can't be dumber.

The thing about a good theory though, it that it both explains facts, and you can make testable predictions.

Fact 1:
Russia attempted to hack our electoral process through a multi-pronged attack.

Fact 2:
Donald "look how big my inauguration crowd was" Trump has done nothing but deny this even happened. He has shown no willingness whatsoever to hold Russia to account for anything.

Fact 3:
Donald Trump has a pattern of criticizing anyone, and everyone at the drop of a hat. Allies, enemies, courts, free press, nothing has escaped his remarks and twitter feed, except for ONE/(two) thing(s), and that is Russia/Putin

Fact 4:
Russian efforts appeared designed to support Trump

Fact 5:
Trump directly called on Russia publicly to support his efforts to get elected.

Fact 6:
Donald Trump has gone out of his way to meet and talk with Putin privately in person, with no American witnesses. This is the only leader with which he has acted in this manner.

Fact 7:
Donald Trump, when forced to sign a bipartisan sanctions bill passed with a veto-proof majority of both houses of Congress, issued a signing statement saying most of it was unconstitutional, and that his administration would enforce it as little as possible.


Theory:
Donald Trump has been compromised in some way. Either he directly owes them money, or they have evidence of some kind of him breaking the law or doing something he does not want others to know about.

This theory explains those facts, and is fully consistent with observed reality.

Prediction:
Donald Trump will take no action personally, nor will he criticize Russia or Putin in any way in regards to the Russian attack on our elections. He may allow his underlings to do some minor, inconsequential stuff, and if forced to do anything by Congress will drag his feet, if not outright attempt to veto any sanctions.


The way to falsify the theory:
1) Trump criticizes Putin/Russia (good)
2) Trump orders/takes action that materially harms Russian interests (definitive)

Bullshit conspiracy theories fail very often because either: they cannot be falsified, or they directly conflict with observed reality. This theory can be falsified, and does not conflict with what we know as fact.

Donald Trump is unpredictable except for Russia

This is a good test of my theory.

It predicts that Trump will not do anything, nor will he criticize Putin.

Trump has not countered anything Putin has done. He has let the state department do some trivial things in cutting back staff, and that is it.

Don't forget how he thanked Putin for the opportunity to cut staff and save money.

[RandomGuy]

J
Yeah but God forbid Russia lies about the number of trrops in their drills within their country which are open to the public btw :lmao

The war games were not inside Russia, nor were they "open to the public"

:lmao

[RandomGuy]

Dude, we are not ending all life on the planet over some former soviet republics, and if our leaders really would do that then they need to go right now.

So you have not completed your reading. They would, and have pledged to do so for over 70 years. That threat was what kept the cold war from getting hot.

I can't learn history for you, so I will leave it at that.

[Axl Rose]

So you have not completed your reading. They would, and have pledged to do so for over 70 years. That threat was what kept the cold war from getting hot.

I can't learn history for you, so I will leave it at that.
Can you link me where our official policy says that we would respond to conventional attacks with nuclear weapons? It would be insane to nuke a country over a war drill considering we conduct them everywhere all the time. I highly highly doubt we would end the world over some shitty Eastern European country. You understand that once we launch, it's all over right? We can't even shoot down fat boys missile over Japan. Both sides would be annihilated.

such a policy would only make sense if we were nuked or the homeland invaded.what you're advocating is no different than Isis.

[hater]

The war games were not inside Russia, nor were they "open to the public"

:lmao

Yes they are open to any interested Nato or other legit observer

So they are open to the public

And yes the Russian soldiers will be in Russia

[spurraider21]

Yeah... The concept of MAD is one of threat and deterrence. The US isn't going to start a nuclear Armageddon over troops in Belarus

[RandomGuy]

Yes they are open to any interested Nato or other legit observer

So they are open to the public

And yes the Russian soldiers will be in Russia

(sighs heavily)

Belarus is not in Russia.

Do you need a map?

http://www.belarus.by/dadvimages/000444_145669.jpg


Belarus, a landlocked country in Eastern Europe, is known for its Stalinist architecture, grand fortifications and primeval forests.

:lmao

[RandomGuy]

Yeah... The concept of MAD is one of threat and deterrence. The US isn't going to start a nuclear Armageddon over troops in Belarus

No, not really. Mostly because we will have observers and watch them like hawks.

The problems start when things start begin hidden from each other, such as lying about how big the troop formations will be.

[RandomGuy]

Yes they are open to any interested Nato or other legit observer

So they are open to the public


Feel free to show up and start taking pictures of Russian troop movements. :lmao

[hater]

:lmao and?

This is like US troops training in Canada :lmao

Wqke me up when Russians land in Mexico :lol

[spurraider21]

No, not really. Mostly because we will have observers and watch them like hawks.

The problems start when things start begin hidden from each other, such as lying about how big the troop formations will be.
Still ridiculous to bring up MAD tbh

[hater]

No, not really. Mostly because we will have observers and watch them like hawks.

The problems start when things start begin hidden from each other, such as lying about how big the troop formations will be.


:lmao the wargames have not even taken place so we dont really know how many troops will be used

My advice is save your tears till after the drills and we know exactly how many troops were use

:lmao

[Axl Rose]

(sighs heavily)

Belarus is not in Russia.

Do you need a map?

http://www.belarus.by/dadvimages/000444_145669.jpg



:lmao
Don't be a dunce, Russia was invited there, it's not an illegal presence like the USA in Syria or anything. You know, violating international law and stuff. Biggest fucking war criminals I've ever seen. Still to this day occupying Germany and Japan and controlling the press in Germany. Injecting our toxic suicidal genocidal ideologies of "equality" and "multiculturalism" while Muslims pour in. Just a continuation of so called "denazification" continuing to this day. Japan, Germany, Korea, Vietnam, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Cuba, just to name a few of the countries we've bullied. Not to mention the dozens of other countries where we build military bases. And you have the gall to speak negatively about Russia. You think you're different but you're a typical pompous arrogant 'merican just like joe bob and Cletus.

[pgardn]

This is a good test of my theory.

It predicts that Trump will not do anything, nor will he criticize Putin.

Trump has not countered anything Putin has done. He has let the state department do some trivial things in cutting back staff, and that is it.

Don't forget how he thanked Putin for the opportunity to cut staff and save money.

He could have stopped troops and military hardware to Poland.

He did NOT. This was a direct action to help a NATO member that he is supposed to hate so much.
Trump listened to his military hires. His military people set his agenda now. He totally pissed off Bannon, threw him out of the room on these matters, and then just threw him out of the WH.

He signed sanctions on Russia. He could have opposed this and got an earful, but he did NOT.

I could go on...

[RandomGuy]

He could have stopped troops and military hardware to Poland.

He did NOT. This was a direct action to help a NATO member that he is supposed to hate so much.
Trump listened to his military hires. His military people set his agenda now. He totally pissed off Bannon, threw him out of the room on these matters, and then just threw him out of the WH.

He signed sanctions on Russia. He could have opposed this and got an earful, but he did NOT.

I could go on...

Shipping troops and hardware to Poland doesn't harm Russian interests in any material way.

He signed the bill because it had veto-proof votes in both house of Congress. He had no choice. His signing statement indicated he thought much of it was unconstitutional, and indicated he would instruct people not to carry it out as much as he thought he could get away with. Read the statement.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/08/02/statement-president-donald-j-trump-signing-hr-3364

Firing Bannon doesn't harm Russian interests.

[RandomGuy]

Don't be a dunce, Russia was invited there, it's not an illegal presence like the USA in Syria or anything. You know, violating international law and stuff. Biggest fucking war criminals I've ever seen. Still to this day occupying Germany and Japan and controlling the press in Germany. Injecting our toxic suicidal genocidal ideologies of "equality" and "multiculturalism" while Muslims pour in. Just a continuation of so called "denazification" continuing to this day. Japan, Germany, Korea, Vietnam, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Cuba, just to name a few of the countries we've bullied. Not to mention the dozens of other countries where we build military bases. And you have the gall to speak negatively about Russia. You think you're different but you're a typical pompous arrogant 'merican just like joe bob and Cletus.

That was almost coherent.

Almost.

[RandomGuy]

GDYTWclC8wU

oopsies.

:lol

[RandomGuy]

what no one saw the Russian helicopter accidentally firing a rocket into the reviewing stands?

Hope hater is ok.

[SnakeBoy]

Nah. Russia is just using the exercises to establish a permanent presence in Belarus, a client state.

Not hugely earthshattering in terms of significance. They are trying to add strategic depth, and reinforce what they view as their sphere of influence.

Another waste of money, IMO.

It does give them a modest amount of leverage, and does fit into a pattern of solidifying their position, at least in their heads.

So you're saying the thread you started is pointless