PTR: Davis Bertans May Have Made David Lee Expendable

[BillMc]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/9/18/16291184/davis-bertans-made-david-lee-expendable


After arguably having done the same to Matt Bonner last year.

[Chinook]

He didn't.

[Joseph Kony]

David Lee opting out thinking he could get more $$$ made David Lee expendable, not a player in a thin frontcourt whose game is nothing alike tbh

[dabom]

B3rtans. :wow :wow

[MultiTroll]

smh Lee does everything asked of him and was absolutely kicking ass against Phaggot State in Game 1's Spurs blowout.

but but but phaggot Gasol gets 16 million for 3 fucking years while Lee gets the door.

[SAGirl]

The article is faulty in assuming the Spurs didn't bring Lee back bc of Davis. That's incorrect. Lee opted out of his own accord. Whether to get a last chance at a payday, or to get more minutes. He may have miscalculated his opportunities but so did many FA this past summer.

[cd021]

Would still love to have him back tbh he was really good last season.

[313]

but isnt Davis injury prone? what happens when he goes down?

I know lee wasnt the most durable, but between the two of them we could get a full season's worth of play lol

[Dex]

I know the roster is "full" at this point, but what are the odds the Spurs pick up one more big (in the mold of Lee, Bogut, etc) before training camp, and let one of the other guys go? There are still two spots left for training camp IIRC, and what if one of those two outshines the others?

Paul, White, hell, even Forbes could easily be on the bubble despite having low guaranteed contracts. Only one of them will probably stand out, and we don't have space on the roster for a bunch of wasted guard prospects.

[MultiTroll]

The article is faulty in assuming the Spurs didn't bring Lee back bc of Davis. That's incorrect. Lee opted out of his own accord. Whether to get a last chance at a payday, or to get more minutes. He may have miscalculated his opportunities but so did many FA this past summer.
So did Gasol. But PATFO bent over backwards to kiss he and Parkers asses.

Ok, so Lee wanted to see if he could make a little more then his 2.1 million salary. Heaven forbid. :rolleyes

I have no doubt the "Every NBA player wants to play for Pop and the Spurs" is a nice little myth that is bullshit among some NBA players. I'm sure some players and agents have taken note of older vets who are Pops Pets that get massively overpaid when considering their true value. See previously Mike Finley 2008-10, BonBon etc.

[TheGreatYacht]

Bertans replacing Lee? Don't know how we'll be able to rebound from this

[SAGirl]

Multitroll: I know your point, but Gasol was already owed $16 million this season anyways has he not opted out of his deal and he opted out only at the Spurs request to give them an opportunity to sign some others. Spurs ended up empty handed and didn't land any of the rumored stars (CP3) they would have needed the cap money for. But they had already verbally agreed to a deal with Gasol and they honored it when they misssed on all their targets this summer. It was a bad summer. I completely agree. But this article assumes Spurs didn't want Lee back and I think that's false.

[TimDunkem]

Bertans replacing Lee? Don't know how we'll be able to rebound from thisNice. :lol

[BillMc]

Bertans replacing Lee? Don't know how we'll be able to rebound from this

Gotta admit that was funny. :lol

[Dex]

Bertans replacing Lee? Don't know how we'll be able to rebound from this

(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

[Seventyniner]

Bogut sounds like an interesting possibility because he would be a luxury, but if the Spurs get a 4th big it would have to be a minutes sponge and Bogut is anything but that.

I think the premise of the article might be correct assuming that Pop makes significant changes on offense. If he decides to take a step or two towards the GS/HOU/CLE mold then a player like Bertans is more valuable than Lee. Given the current roster composition (even without Lauvergne), PATFO might think that there wouldn't be enough minutes for both Bertans and Lee anyway. So while Bertans cannot play Lee's role at all, his minutes would still need to come from somewhere if he is to get more PT.

[TheDoctor]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/9/18/16291184/davis-bertans-made-david-lee-expendable

PTR with their delusional article per par. Bertans can't rebound for shit.

[TD 21]

Bertans didn't make Lee expendable, Gay did. He's the one who will be a top 8 rotation player and effectively the third big.


I know the roster is "full" at this point, but what are the odds the Spurs pick up one more big (in the mold of Lee, Bogut, etc) before training camp, and let one of the other guys go? There are still two spots left for training camp IIRC, and what if one of those two outshines the others?

Paul, White, hell, even Forbes could easily be on the bubble despite having low guaranteed contracts. Only one of them will probably stand out, and we don't have space on the roster for a bunch of wasted guard prospects.

White is definitely not on the bubble. No one is going to throw a 1st round pick from 3 months ago in the garbage . . . and before you bring up Jean-Charles, that was 3 years and at least one knee surgery between his being drafted and cut.

Paul might be, but it's probably unlikely. He's their best shot at having a third 3 and D type on the perimeter. He's also more experienced professionally than the other unproven guards.

Forbes' days are numbered. Maybe not out of camp or even this season, but given their affinity with Mills, he has no path to even semi regular minutes going forward and they have the least invested in him. If he lasts the season, they'll either not qualify/rescind their qualifying offer to allow him greater opportunity elsewhere or some smart team will take a flier in the form of a decent offer sheet and they won't match.

[BillMc]

PTR with their delusional article per par. Bertans can't rebound for shit.

I'm not gonna say he's a good rebounder or even an adequate one, but on the offensive side at least he usually is way out on the perimeter, and told by the coaches to get back as fast as possible in transition. It's not likes he's banging down low and ordered to crash the glass.

[SAGirl]

Bogut sounds like an interesting possibility because he would be a luxury, but if the Spurs get a 4th big it would have to be a minutes sponge and Bogut is anything but that.

I think the premise of the article might be correct assuming that Pop makes significant changes on offense. If he decides to take a step or two towards the GS/HOU/CLE mold then a player like Bertans is more valuable than Lee. Given the current roster composition (even without Lauvergne), PATFO might think that there wouldn't be enough minutes for both Bertans and Lee anyway. So while Bertans cannot play Lee's role at all, his minutes would still need to come from somewhere if he is to get more PT.
This I agree with. I also thought Davis was pushing him for minutes last season. I definitely think he will play more this year. If he stayed this season, Lee would have been an undersized center and I don't think he would have wanted to play that role bc his minutes would fluctuate depending on situation and Pau/LMA. He would be playing Lauvergne like minutes. Also, it's possible Lee isn't suited to be an undersized center. He's been injury prone the last few seasons and banging with centers exposes him to a beating. Last season he played with another true center with him and his body was spared. This season he wouldn't.

It's probably for the best for him to move on. As you said, a minute sponge is Lauvergne.

[TheDoctor]

I'm not gonna say he's a good rebounder or even an adequate one, but on the offensive side at least he usually is way out on the perimeter, and told by the coaches to get back as fast as possible in transition. It's not likes he's banging down low and ordered to crash the glass.

Fair enough and I expressed myself wrongly. Didn't bring context.

Now like you said, they aren't even the same kind of player. DLee isn't a perimeter player and Bertans is as fragile as its get
wherever he tries to impose his will in the lane.

So the article is wrong in trying to reach this idea of Bertans making DLee expendable. Well Bertans didn't.

[Down Under]

They're totally different players, stretch big v dive man

[tbdog]

Bertans didn't make Lee expendable, Gay did. He's the one who will be a top 8 rotation player and effectively the third big.



White is definitely not on the bubble. No one is going to throw a 1st round pick from 3 months ago in the garbage . . . and before you bring up Jean-Charles, that was 3 years and at least one knee surgery between his being drafted and cut.

Paul might be, but it's probably unlikely. He's their best shot at having a third 3 and D type on the perimeter. He's also more experienced professionally than the other unproven guards.

Forbes' days are numbered. Maybe not out of camp or even this season, but given their affinity with Mills, he has no path to even semi regular minutes going forward and they have the least invested in him. If he lasts the season, they'll either not qualify/rescind their qualifying offer to allow him greater opportunity elsewhere or some smart team will take a flier in the form of a decent offer sheet and they won't match.

My concern is that we are limited at the SG position. Manu and Green will miss time. White and Paul are raw. Forbes could be the third SG here or even PG if Leonard or Anderson runs the show, and you might find that gay and Leonard will start if Green is injured. It's sad that we have three sg's and we don't trust any of them.

[TimDunkem]

Any team with Forbes playing any sort of important role is in trouble.

[Dex]

Any team with Forbes playing any sort of important role is in trouble.

Can't say I disagree with this. If the team tries to stick Forbes into a Neal type of role...good god.

I like the kid and he had a good summer league showing, but unless he can shoot 60% from the field...he is far too limited everywhere else.

[TimDunkem]

Can't say I disagree with this. If the team tries to stick Forbes into a Neal type of role...good god.

I like the kid and he had a good summer league showing, but unless he can shoot 60% from the field...he is far too limited everywhere else.
Limited skillset, too small and slow to defend anyone, and no toughness - people want to say he's "fearless" but, the moment things got physical, he wilted (in a Summer League game no less...).

Forbes sucks. I've said it before and I'll say it again that the Spurs like the kid and are just doing right by him keeping him around. However, he has no future with this team.

[spurs10]

I don't think this article is suggesting the Spurs got rid of Lee because of Bertans. It's suggesting that Bertans "may have made Lee expendable" but it's only the writer's speculation and not pretending to be PATFO's thinking. Lee opted out because he thought he could get more money. I hope something happens for him. He worked hard for us and I'm guessing he was a good teammate. When people opt out they are gambling.

[UZER]

What mean expendable?

[John B]

More like Lauvergne's signing made Lee expendable. Davis is a stretch four who retired Bonner

[Spurtacular]

If anything made Lee expendable, it was a serious injury at an advanced age.

[MultiTroll]

If anything made Lee expendable, it was a serious injury at an advanced age.
But Porkers at 15 mil a year isn't? :lol

[MultiTroll]

Multitroll: I know your point, but Gasol was already owed $16 million this season anyways has he not opted out of his deal and he opted out only at the Spurs request to give them an opportunity to sign some others. Spurs ended up empty handed and didn't land any of the rumored stars (CP3) they would have needed the cap money for. But they had already verbally agreed to a deal with Gasol and they honored it when they misssed on all their targets this summer. It was a bad summer. I completely agree. But this article assumes Spurs didn't want Lee back and I think that's false.
That's my whole point. They bent over backwards to accommodate Pau vs not offering Lee shit. Fucking w-h-y? Assuming Pau wanted to continue to pull fat paychecks beyond this upcoming season, and he obviously did.....what better way then to have him in a contract year? If he plays great -viola! Maybe he helps win a Championship. In all likelihood he is very motivated playing in a contract year. And if he sucks, we have the option of trading his expiring at midseason. Perfect scenario. But nooo, they give him some ridiculous verbal agreement in a fruitless pursuit of another of Pops Pets, the vastly overated CPChoke. Compound it by giving him 3 years. Oh ya I'm sure Pau will be super motivated now and for the next 3 years, we won't see any slacking at all.

All while burning Lee who was at 2.1 million and wanted a little raise? :lmao

[Chinook]

Forbes' days are numbered. Maybe not out of camp or even this season, but given their affinity with Mills, he has no path to even semi regular minutes going forward and they have the least invested in him. If he lasts the season, they'll either not qualify/rescind their qualifying offer to allow him greater opportunity elsewhere or some smart team will take a flier in the form of a decent offer sheet and they won't match.

I am not sure that they'll do what they've been doing recently. Neal has a relatively consistent role-player and Simmons had a "good" playoffs. The team has shown that they will re-sign deep rotation players that they can keep on the cheap. They did so with Mills in 2012 as well as Baynes in 2014. I think Bryn has an NBA skill and has shown decent development, but I would not go so far as to assume he'd get a great or even good offer on the market. SA would keep him in that circumstance.

Most likely to get cut are:

Paul
Lauvergne
Forbes
Murray
Anderson

[jermaine]

Lauvergne an Murray ain't getting cut!!! Anderson an Forbes maybe trade bait.. which leaves Paul... he could be cut for the right big!!

[TheGreatYacht]

Forbes is our best guard after Parker, Green, and Mills. Tbh

[BillMc]

B3rtans. :wow :wow
:toast

[SAGirl]

I can only see a guy getting cut per se if he's completely inadequate for the role he has been assigned. If the issue is traditional big not playing well and Spurs wanting to pick up another, then I'd assume Lauvergne isn't playing well enough and is a liability out there. If that were the case, he'd be at risk.

Forbes needs to shoot better than he did last season. His niche is 3 pt shooting and that needs to improve at the NBA level otherwise he could be at risk. Hopefully he has a good season bc he will likely be needed.

Murray is just too young for a curtain call.

I expect Anderson to play well and have a good season.

I can't comment on BP3.

Unless a big were injured for a substantial time, I can't imagine Spurs cutting a perimeter player that is playing well. They seem to have made a choice to play differently and their biggest problem is Tony 's injury and Manu bring 40, rest games etc. That's,still going to remain the case.

[vander]

it's 2017 and people still post articles from PTR

[TD 21]

My concern is that we are limited at the SG position. Manu and Green will miss time. White and Paul are raw. Forbes could be the third SG here or even PG if Leonard or Anderson runs the show, and you might find that gay and Leonard will start if Green is injured. It's sad that we have three sg's and we don't trust any of them.

Think Paul might start if Green is injured/given a rest game. He's not raw, just lacks NBA experience, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a slightly bigger role than most assume he will. He has the physical profile of a possible secondary Harden/Westbrook defender.



I am not sure that they'll do what they've been doing recently. Neal has a relatively consistent role-player and Simmons had a "good" playoffs. The team has shown that they will re-sign deep rotation players that they can keep on the cheap. They did so with Mills in 2012 as well as Baynes in 2014. I think Bryn has an NBA skill and has shown decent development, but I would not go so far as to assume he'd get a great or even good offer on the market. SA would keep him in that circumstance.

Most likely to get cut are:

Paul
Lauvergne
Forbes
Murray
Anderson

They do it when there's mutual interest from both sides and in the case of the player, that's generally only going to exist if there's a path to at least semi consistent minutes. In Forbes' case, he's permanently blocked. There's too much overlap between Mills and him and the former is entrenched. Barring something unforeseen, Murray and White aren't going anywhere anytime soon either.

It's all relative. Obviously, no one is breaking the bank on Forbes. I just mean a contract that would have him solidly in the league for a few years.

Not a chance Anderson, Lauvergne or Murray are cut.

[Spurtacular]

But Porkers at 15 mil a year isn't? :lol

Tony/Pop have a pact. Accept reality.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Lee opted out, but I'm surprised the Spurs didn't ask him back when it was apparent they wouldn't get outbid. He brought a lot to the organization both on the floor and in the locker room. I'm fearful about all the unproven and prior season ineffectual "talent" we have on this year's roster.

At least Lee brought all he could give every single night. Dude played like a man on a mission, not someone lost on Mars. Probably our 3rd best player on many nights.

[Spurtacular]

Lee opted out, but I'm surprised the Spurs didn't ask him back when it was apparent they wouldn't get outbid. He brought a lot to the organization both on the floor and in the locker room. I'm fearful about all the unproven and prior season ineffectual "talent" we have on this year's roster.

At least Lee brought all he could give every single night. Dude played like a man on a mission, not someone lost on Mars. Probably our 3rd best player on many nights.

Spurs are in a rebuild while still contending. Big picture, probably giving Lee all those minutes (when someone young could be developing) doesn't help, imo.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Spurs are in a rebuild while still contending. Big picture, probably giving Lee all those minutes (when someone young could be developing) doesn't help, imo.

I think you're right, but Lee was needed to play those minutes because the young guys couldn't get it done if we were going to win on many nights. Other than a roster spot he wouldn't have gotten in the way of developing young talent if that young talent could deliver. The Spurs have always blended the unproven guys with key veterans extremely well...probably better than any pro team ever has. But those veterans were usually guys like Lee who came here on value deals. This year our veteran leaders are eating a lot of payroll, which leaves the young talent pools perhaps a little less shiny than in previous seasons.

I say "perhaps" because I'm hoping I'm missing the diamonds in the rough that the Spurs have pulled up in the past.

But I have this recurring memory of David Robinson carrying a limited roster into the playoffs only to lose year after year (of which he didn't create an alias on social media to complain about :) ). I don't want the same fate for Kawhi.

[Spurtacular]

I think you're right, but Lee was needed to play those minutes because the young guys couldn't get it done if we were going to win on many nights. ..

Yea, we don't know if Bertans and others can get it done on a nightly basis. We'll see.

[MultiTroll]

Spurs are in a rebuild while still contending. Big picture, probably giving Lee all those minutes (when someone young could be developing) doesn't help, imo.


Tony/Pop have a pact. Accept reality.
:rolleyes

[wildbill2u]

Lee had several strikes against him including the season ending injury in playoffs, but I really liked the way he played in the team concept. Smart, good passer, and surprisingly good moves down low for scores. NOt to mention his enthusiasm on and off court when not playing. I think the guy from Denver will replace him in the front line, rather than Bertans.

[Budkin]

PTR with their delusional article per par. Bertans can't rebound for shit.

We should block PTR articles from being published here.

[TimDunkem]

We should block PTR articles from being published here.
Seconded.

[David Stern]

I am not sure that they'll do what they've been doing recently. Neal has a relatively consistent role-player and Simmons had a "good" playoffs. The team has shown that they will re-sign deep rotation players that they can keep on the cheap. They did so with Mills in 2012 as well as Baynes in 2014. I think Bryn has an NBA skill and has shown decent development, but I would not go so far as to assume he'd get a great or even good offer on the market. SA would keep him in that circumstance.

Most likely to get cut are:

Paul
Lauvergne
Forbes
Murray
Anderson
:lol saying Murray gets cut. That's a future big 3 on this team. Stick to watching your Ravens.

[Chinook]

:lol saying Murray gets cut. That's a future big 3 on this team. Stick to watching your Ravens.

I'll give you credit for switching accounts before saying something stupid.

[Mal]

Are Spurs aiming for smallball shooting lineup ? Murray, Green, Kawhi, Gay, LMA with Gasol, Bertans, Anderson, Manu, Mills of bench. That is smallball lineup

[tbdog]

Are Spurs aiming for smallball shooting lineup ? Murray, Green, Kawhi, Gay, LMA with Gasol, Bertans, Anderson, Manu, Mills of bench. That is smallball lineup

I think Anderson and Mills start instead, with Gay off the bench. It also means that Forbes could get spot minutes with Murray as I am unsure he could play alongside Mills.

[wildbill2u]

We should block PTR articles from being published here.

Absolutely right! What we need are more threads from the fan boys and haters on the same subjects they've been beating to death for years. We need more of that.

[TheGreatYacht]

Jesus fucking Christ. Some fans worry how they'll fit in KD, PG13, CP3, Melo, Butler, Cousins.... we worry how Davis Bertans will average 2 rebounds as a starting PF

[tmtcsc]

Stupid. Davis Bertans looked like garbage in the Summer league. Dude doesn't rebound or do the dirty work necessary in the position.

[TimDunkem]

Can't wait to see him matched-up against Blake, AD, Melo, Draymond, and others once Fatass LMA:lol has to sit.

[Hoops Czar]

Stupid. Davis Bertans looked like garbage in the Summer league. Dude doesn't rebound or do the dirty work necessary in the position.
He is garbage, though I suppose one fan's garbage is another fan's treasure.

[SAGirl]

He's probably going to be better than JSimms was last season, at least.

[TheGreatYacht]

Leave it to Fathead troll to have Simmons rent free in her head

[Spurtacular]

I think Anderson and Mills start instead, with Gay off the bench. It also means that Forbes could get spot minutes with Murray as I am unsure he could play alongside Mills.

Ugh.... Am I right?

SAGirl (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49524)

[UZER]

What mean expendable?

Nobody go this?