Kawhi Leonard vs Chicago Bulls 2013..Wow, Superstar. Day 1.

[apalisoc_9]

Back when vanilla cliche fans were begging him to be bruce bowen. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwLF-BDJwUg

[cd021]

Back when vanilla cliche fans were begging him to be bruce bowen. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwLF-BDJwUg

Remember that game. KL showing flashes of his greatness tbh.

[lefty20]

Was at the game, t'was a privilege to catch a live preview of future.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think by 2013 most people realized his ceiling was higher than Bruce's.

Considering Bowen's jersey is hanging in the rafters I don't think hoping a young talent can reach Bowen's level is an unappreciative expectation of his talent level.

Of course I knew he'd be far better. :)

[hooperflash]

It's crazy to think that Kawhi has throwback games already :lol

[sananspursfan21]

Well you knew he wasn't going to be anything like Bowen because his defense is flashier. Just as (if not much more) effective as Bowen but Kawhi's defense comes with the sexy steals and big blocks and all that jazz. Bowen just had textbook perimeter stifling on his resume and not a lot more. Always love Bowen and he's a Spur great but there's no question EVER that Kawhi would be limited to just the one dimension of defense

[ceds]

I usually just lurk for spurs info but for fuck sake....Its been 4 years straight of this b/s . Yes we all get it and know its your claim to fame on this board.
Your constant reminders of how you called Kawh's ascension to being a star was played out 3 years ago.

We all saw his DPOY tools & uncanny strength in his rookie season. After his rookie year anyone half a brain could envision kawhi being the new Ron Artest (not bowen) and a star level player.
Remember you were predicting he would be an all-star not an mvp / superstar level player.

Then after he goes toe to toe with the best player in the League in B2B years, wins a finals MVP in 14 you come out with the bold prediction that he will win a MVP one day.

The fact is that anyone who has any kind of talent evaluation who saw a 22 year old kawhi in the 13 finals knew without a doubt after that series that he would develop into a monster and one of the games best. Unfortunately we didn't get to see him truly unleashed again with a full licence until the 14 finals when he outplayed Lebron in games 3 - 5 . Then we didn't see true "greenlight" superstar kawhi until last year when TP finally accepted a role ... but after the 13 finals there was no doubt what kind of player we had on out hands...Still it was until the 2014 finals when you made your bold[B] MVP predictions.

You have some good things to say sometimes but damn every time i open the page there's a post about you reminding everyone of what you saw in kawhi.

Years ago back when this was spurs report a couple of posters predicted TP being an all-star as a skinny 19 year old rookie after watching hi play less then 2 months (ie before the Payton series)

Give us something new and different to read....whats your predictions on Bertans? Murray?

Can you tell the board your current (non-lottery) players from the last 2 drafts that will become All-stars?

[phxspurfan]

I think by 2013 most people realized his ceiling was higher than Bruce's.

Considering Bowen's jersey is hanging in the rafters I don't think hoping a young talent can reach Bowen's level is an unappreciative expectation of his talent level.

Of course I knew he'd be far better. :)

I can't imagine Leonard playing Prime Kobe better than Yardley did here:

KzJ7m9Y-aHI

or turning LeBron into Nick Young

5QJFwmwjTeo

or when he blocked Prime Dirk when nobody could guard him

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/2006-05/18/xin_370503181418590202532.jpg


...he was Kawhi before Kawhi and set up Kawhi for the success and accolades he gets now. He (and Tim) never even won a DPOY while scrubs like Camby and Ben Wallace and Dwert won multiple.

[TimDunkem]

I'm not taking away anything from Bowen, but he didn't set Kawhi up for shit. Kawhi being the clear-cut best defender in the league did that. Kawhi owes Bruce nothing.

[phxspurfan]

You could say scrub ass Draymond Green has been the best defender in the league too. It's not as clear cut as Spurs fans think (and I'm a huge Spurs homer). Also Gobert had a case (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2704440-nba-defensive-player-of-the-year-2017-top-award-candidates-announcement-date) last year

Top 2016-17 NBA Defensive Player of the Year Candidates
Player Games SPG BPG Def. Rating DBPM DWS
Draymond Green 76 2.0 1.4 99 5.0 5.4
Rudy Gobert 81 0.6 2.6 99 4.5 6.0
Kawhi Leonard 74 1.8 0.7 102 1.5 4.7


meanwhile Bowen's peers were guys like Big ben, Dwight Howard, Camby, Tony Allen etc who didn't play the crucial playoff games that Bowen played again top tier comp (but of course DPOY was a regular season award based on rebounds and blocks back then)


2001–02 Ben Wallace[a] Center United States Detroit Pistons
2002–03 Ben Wallace (2)[a] Center United States Detroit Pistons
2003–04 Ron Artest[a][e] Forward United States Indiana Pacers
2004–05 Ben Wallace (3)[a] Center United States Detroit Pistons
2005–06 Ben Wallace (4)[a] Center United States Detroit Pistons
2006–07 Marcus Camby Center United States Denver Nuggets
2007–08 Kevin Garnett[a][b] Forward/Center United States Boston Celtics
2008–09 Dwight Howard^ Center United States Orlando Magic
2009–10 Dwight Howard^ (2) Center United States Orlando Magic
2010–11 Dwight Howard^ (3) Center United States Orlando Magic


smh @ Big Ben winning 4 DPOYs, Dwert winning 3 while TD and Bowen won 0 combined, yet the vaunted Spurs D was great for over a decade

[TimDunkem]

^Not sure what your point is since Kawhi didn't win last season, nor do those players have anything to do with Bruce.

I know you have a real soft spot for Bruce, but Kawhi owes Bruce nothing - not his DPOY awards, not his FMVP, not his ring, not his All-NBA awards...Nothing. Plain and simple.

[DMC]

I can't imagine Leonard playing Prime Kobe better than Yardley did here:

KzJ7m9Y-aHI

or turning LeBron into Nick Young

5QJFwmwjTeo

or when he blocked Prime Dirk when nobody could guard him

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/2006-05/18/xin_370503181418590202532.jpg


...he was Kawhi before Kawhi and set up Kawhi for the success and accolades he gets now. He (and Tim) never even won a DPOY while scrubs like Camby and Ben Wallace and Dwert won multiple.

Ben Wallace wasn't a scrub. Neither was Howard in his prime.

[DMC]

You could say scrub ass Draymond Green has been the best defender in the league too. It's not as clear cut as Spurs fans think (and I'm a huge Spurs homer). Also Gobert had a case (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2704440-nba-defensive-player-of-the-year-2017-top-award-candidates-announcement-date) last year

Top 2016-17 NBA Defensive Player of the Year Candidates
Player Games SPG BPG Def. Rating DBPM DWS
Draymond Green 76 2.0 1.4 99 5.0 5.4
Rudy Gobert 81 0.6 2.6 99 4.5 6.0
Kawhi Leonard 74 1.8 0.7 102 1.5 4.7


meanwhile Bowen's peers were guys like Big ben, Dwight Howard, Camby, Tony Allen etc who didn't play the crucial playoff games that Bowen played again top tier comp (but of course DPOY was a regular season award based on rebounds and blocks back then)


2001–02 Ben Wallace[a] Center United States Detroit Pistons
2002–03 Ben Wallace (2)[a] Center United States Detroit Pistons
2003–04 Ron Artest[a][e] Forward United States Indiana Pacers
2004–05 Ben Wallace (3)[a] Center United States Detroit Pistons
2005–06 Ben Wallace (4)[a] Center United States Detroit Pistons
2006–07 Marcus Camby Center United States Denver Nuggets
2007–08 Kevin Garnett[a][b] Forward/Center United States Boston Celtics
2008–09 Dwight Howard^ Center United States Orlando Magic
2009–10 Dwight Howard^ (2) Center United States Orlando Magic
2010–11 Dwight Howard^ (3) Center United States Orlando Magic


smh @ Big Ben winning 4 DPOYs, Dwert winning 3 while TD and Bowen won 0 combined, yet the vaunted Spurs D was great for over a decade
You watch Kawhi Leonard defend someone like Lebron then watch Draymond do it. Kawhi is hands down the best defender in the game, not even close.

[Play Boban]

:cry

[phxspurfan]

You watch Kawhi Leonard defend someone like Lebron then watch Draymond do it. Kawhi is hands down the best defender in the game, not even close.

They're different players. What I remember what I think of Green is how he punked Aldridge, and other big men. He defends big men better than most I've seen, especially as an undersized C. But of course Kawhi is better overall and against wings in Today's NBA that's more important anyway.

[DMC]

They're different players. What I remember what I think of Green is how he punked Aldridge, and other big men. He defends big men better than most I've seen, especially as an undersized C. But of course Kawhi is better overall and against wings in Today's NBA that's more important anyway.

When you kick people in the nuts they tend to lose some drive.

[phxspurfan]

Ben Wallace wasn't a scrub. Neither was Howard in his prime.

Wallace wasn't a scrub but can you really tell everybody he deserved 4 DPOYs while Duncan and Bowen got 0? During an era where Spurs won 3 rings and played/toppled his own team (the Pistons), the Lakers and the Suns, Mavs and LeBrons? Who defended Nash, Nowitzki, LeBron?

[DMC]

Wallace wasn't a scrub but can you really tell everybody he deserved 4 DPOYs while Duncan and Bowen got 0? During an era where Spurs won 3 rings and played/toppled his own team (the Pistons), the Lakers and the Suns, Mavs and LeBrons? Who defended Nash, Nowitzki, LeBron?

Wallace didn't just beat out Tim. He beat out Garnett as well. Ben Wallace was a beast.

TcyYl-Bk60A

This series still gives me chills today when I watch the intros. Great series.

[phxspurfan]

When you kick people in the nuts they tend to lose some drive.

Sure thats the public narrative, and he was dirty at times :lol but he didn't do that every game. Watch the youtubes, his effort was off the charts and instincts/quickness way overshadowed any random dirty plays he made throughout his career

[DMC]

Sure thats the public narrative, and he was dirty at times :lol but he didn't do that every game. Watch the youtubes, his effort was off the charts and instincts/quickness way overshadowed any random dirty plays he made throughout his career

He's a great defender with great hands, deceptively fast with his lateral movement and hands, but he's no Kawhi Leonard.

[TimDunkem]

The only Spurs you can argue Kawhi owes anything to are Tim and Dave as there wouldn't be a San Antonio Spurs anymore if they never played here. Bowen? He owes him nothing. To say he does is absolutely ridiculous.

I think you were just feeling a little nostalgic and wanted to take some of the spotlight away to fellate Bowen, Phx.

[TheGreatYacht]

Draymond is a system help defender. Glorified Paul Millsap

[RD2191]

Draymond is a system help defender. Glorified Paul Millsap

Not to mention he can pretty much get away with murder on defense.

[TheDoctor]

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Brian-Williams-Was-There-3.jpg

[Spurtacular]

Back when vanilla cliche fans were begging him to be bruce bowen. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwLF-BDJwUg

I called out Kawhi as being the next big thing, bro. You called for him to be traded. :lmao

[xellos88330]

I didn't like the trade to get Leonard at first. I thought he couldn't shoot. Now it will be Leonard's fault because every draft pick that we get I am going to expect to learn how to shoot a jumper.

[Dex]

I didn't like the trade to get Leonard at first. I thought he couldn't shoot. Now it will be Leonard's fault because every draft pick that we get I am going to expect to learn how to shoot a jumper.

It's our only hope for Murray.

[Dex]

I can't imagine Leonard playing Prime Kobe better than Yardley did here:

KzJ7m9Y-aHI

or turning LeBron into Nick Young

5QJFwmwjTeo

or when he blocked Prime Dirk when nobody could guard him

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/2006-05/18/xin_370503181418590202532.jpg


...he was Kawhi before Kawhi and set up Kawhi for the success and accolades he gets now. He (and Tim) never even won a DPOY while scrubs like Camby and Ben Wallace and Dwert won multiple.

Bruce will always be one of my favorite Spurs, but let's be real...it's hard to really compare him to Kawhi.

Yes, they were both good defenders, but even the way they played defense was different. Bruce played hyper-quick, stick-in-your-jersey and pester the shit out of you defense. He played defense with his feet, rarely gambled on steals, and played strict fundamental D. Kawhi also has good footwork, but he also has great instincts, superior strength, and uses his length and gigantic hands to just pick pocket guys on the dribble. Bruce rarely reached like that.

On the other side of the ball, there is no comparison. Bruce was an assassin from the corner and clutch as hell, but that was the extent of his offense. He was a role player on offense, whereas Kawhi has become a #1 option and one of the more prolific scorers in the league from all spots on the floor. He may have started out in the Bruce Bowen mold (play solid D, stand in the corners) but he has far surpassed it.

[Chinook]

Only the oldest homers can try to put Bowen clearly above Green. He has no case against Leonard.

[ducks]

apalisoc_9 stating a leonard thread again
PLAYER FAN!

[xellos88330]

It's our only hope for Murray.

Agreed. His lack of a jumper is really irritating. I mean Kawhi was a terrible shooter as well, but it was almost like overnight improvement with him. He spoiled me and my expectations of others.

[phxspurfan]

To be clear, not at all putting Bowen even in the same league as an overall player (not gonna say 2 way player bc that sh*t makes me cringe) as Kawhi. But it seems reasonable to say that Bowen had a role in making the league perceive the Spurs as a dominant defensive club, and the attention that he received as a great defender led people to already have their eyes on Kawhi even back in his first two seasons. He didn't even play starter minutes back then yet already had a reputation as a great defender bc the Spurs drafted him. Of course he actually is a great defender and so people see that, but it doesn't hurt that he's on a club that already has that reputation thanks to guys like DRob, TD, Bowen and Coach Pop. Also just stating that it's a damn shame that the guys who helped create that reputation didn't win a single DPOY combined.

[cd021]

I can't imagine Leonard playing Prime Kobe better than Yardley did here:

KzJ7m9Y-aHI

or turning LeBron into Nick Young

5QJFwmwjTeo

or when he blocked Prime Dirk when nobody could guard him

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/2006-05/18/xin_370503181418590202532.jpg


...he was Kawhi before Kawhi and set up Kawhi for the success and accolades he gets now. He (and Tim) never even won a DPOY while scrubs like Camby and Ben Wallace and Dwert won multiple.

Dwight and Big Ben were legitimately good defensively, Camby just got a lot of blocks and rebounds tbh.

Duncan not winning one is criminal. Mueller needs to look into that next :lol

[phxspurfan]

Dwight and Big Ben were legitimately good defensively, Camby just got a lot of blocks and rebounds tbh.

Duncan not winning one is criminal. Mueller needs to look into that next :lol

Exactly. Especially since for multiple years the Spurs had scrub centers and Tim was forced to guard guys like Malone/KG/Rasheed/Shaq/Gasol and still anchor the defensive boards/block shots.

[cd021]

Agreed. His lack of a jumper is really irritating. I mean Kawhi was a terrible shooter as well, but it was almost like overnight improvement with him. He spoiled me and my expectations of others.

He actually shot the ball well from 3 last season, though he did go full J. Simmons and start passing up open threes in the playoffs. I don't think he is as good of a shooter as the 39% that he shot but hopefully he can be around league average next season with a decent amount of attempts, especially if he starts.I actually really like his game overall, him being able to knock down open 3's can open up his ability to drive when defenders try and close out on him.

[SAGirl]

He actually shot the ball well from 3 last season, though he did go full J. Simmons and start passing up open threes in the playoffs. I don't think he is as good of a shooter as the 39% that he shot but hopefully he can be around league average next season with a decent amount of attempts, especially if he starts.I actually really like his game overall, him being able to knock down open 3's can open up his ability to drive when defenders try and close out on him.
15% in the dleague, more minutes and larger number of attempts.
Nothing in summer league=0
He can get hot here and there. Feast or famine guy. Lately it's been famine, hopefully he starts trending towards feasting.