Anthony Davis's decline- is he even a top 10 player anymore?

[AlexJones]

one of the least talked about things in the NBA tbh.. everyone is shitting on Griffin's inability to take the next step, but not him for some reason. this nigga in 2015 was ranked 2nd overall by ESPN, over Steph fucking Curry, and was also picked by some on this site as the successor to Lebron

his stats past 3 years

PER
2015: 30.8
2016: 25.0
2017: 27.5

BPM
2015: 7.1
2016: 2.2
2017: 3.7

RPM (much better indicator of value than any other statistic)
2015: 8.18
2016: 1.92
2017: 4.35

What went wrong sons?

[unleashbaynes]

He got paid

[Clipper Nation]

Ridiculous that Blake has had the "overrated" label his entire career, well past the point where he could actually be overrated by definition, while Davis just keeps getting a free pass.

[apalisoc_9]

Ridiculous that Blake has had the "overrated" label his entire career, well past the point where he could actually be overrated by definition, while Davis just keeps getting a free pass.

A healthy Brake was a legit top 7 talent and once upon a time playd like one of the top 5 players in the NBA.

Dude is underrated. If he can stay healthy the clips might surprise a a lot of people.

[LkrFan]

Ridiculous that Blake has had the "overrated" label his entire career, well past the point where he could actually be overrated by definition, while Davis just keeps getting a free pass.

Laughable post. Unibrow >>> Bonnie Griffin. Drinking early, eh? :lol

[Clipper Nation]

Laughable post. Unibrow >>> Bonnie Griffin. Drinking early, eh? :lol
I didn't say Blake was better. Just that Davis gets a free pass for not living up to his potential.

I will say this, though: a healthy Blake has finished top 3 in MVP voting. Has Davis ever done that? :downspin:

[phxspurfan]

Blake destroyed us in that one playoffs where TD got that phantom call against CP3 to clinch the series for the Clips. Guys was hitting step back 3s and shit.


But injuries derailed AD.

[ambchang]

Probably had advanced training too early in his career and peaked.

:lol today’s nba.

[LkrFan]

I didn't say Blake was better. Just that Davis gets a free pass for not living up to his potential.

I will say this, though: a healthy Blake has finished top 3 in MVP voting. Has Davis ever done that? :downspin:
:lol - :downspin: that shiiiiiiiiiit! :rollin :lmao :rollin

[DMC]

AD is very good. If he was in San Antonio you'd know.

[midnightpulp]

Easy explanation. It's a guard's game now.

[Raven]

he never was.

[Raven]

Easy explanation. It's a guard's game now.

wat

[midnightpulp]

wat

Where basketball used to be inside-out, with offense schemes built around big men drawing double teams in the post to create spacing for guards off secondary action (i.e. 4 down, Triangle offense with Shaq as the center piece, etc), basketball is now played outside-in via pick-n-rolls. Guards create the defensive breakdowns now (i.e. defenses scrambling to switch on pick-and-rolls, to cover 3 point shooters, etc). Furthermore, team defenses don't double post-players anymore. Because an offensive attempt from the low-post is actually an inefficient play, so why double that and risk creating an open 3 point shooter?

Basketball has become binary. 3s and layups are the only shots "worth" anything now. Sadly, the NBA won't do anything about the 3 point line because fans love the fast-paced chuckfests, but it's resulted in a much simpler and more boring game.

Big man value is now centered around their defense more than ever before. Someone like Shaq in the modern game would probably be limited in favor of a big who could better switch on pick-and-rolls.

[Raven]

Where basketball used to be inside-out, with offense schemes built around big men drawing double teams in the post to create spacing for guards off secondary action (i.e. 4 down, Triangle offense with Shaq as the center piece, etc), basketball is now played outside-in via pick-n-rolls. Guards create the defensive breakdowns now (i.e. defenses scrambling to switch on pick-and-rolls, to cover 3 point shooters, etc). Furthermore, team defenses don't double post-players anymore. Because an offensive attempt from the low-post is actually an inefficient play, so why double that and risk creating an open 3 point shooter?

Basketball has become binary. 3s and layups are the only shots "worth" anything now. Sadly, the NBA won't do anything about the 3 point line because fans love the fast-paced chuckfests, but it's resulted in a much simpler and more boring game.

Big man value is now centered around their defense more than ever before. Someone like Shaq in the modern game would probably be limited in favor of a big who could better switch on pick-and-rolls.

it's a shooting forward's league, and has been for a while now.

[midnightpulp]

it's a shooting forward's league, and has been for a while now.

That forward needs to be a ball-handler, though, which makes him essentially a guard. He needs to be able to start his offense from the 3 point line down (Kevin Durant) and play the pick-and-roll with a big. Stretch 4s are really only good for 3rd/4th options these days and 7 foot centers have less overall impact than ever before, which is why Davis's metrics have plummeted, despite him having career years in PPG, RPG, and a solid .515 FG%.

It's just so easy to marginalize everything big men are traditionally good at when the 3 point line is such a powerful weapon.

[Raven]

That forward needs to be a ball-handler, though, which makes him essentially a guard. He needs to be able to start his offense from the 3 point line down (Kevin Durant) and play the pick-and-roll with a big. Stretch 4s are really only good for 3rd/4th options these days and 7 foot centers have less overall impact than ever before, which is why Davis's metrics have plummeted, despite him having career years in PPG, RPG, and a solid .515 FG%.

It's just so easy to marginalize everything big men are traditionally good at when the 3 point line is such a powerful weapon.

erm, no. They don't carry the ball from the start. AD's impact is bad because he is easily put in bad defensive spots.

[midnightpulp]

erm, no. They don't carry the ball from the start. AD's impact is bad because he is easily put in bad defensive spots.

A PG usually dumps the ball to them in their spots.

Essentially, as I've said in the Spurs forum regarding the evolution of Kawhi's game, you need to be able to ball handle from at least the 3 point line on down if you want to be significant offensive threat in the league.

Davis is one of the better defensive players in the league, ranking 6th DRPM. Check out the RPM leaderboard and see how pretty much every 7 footer has limited offensive impact. Only 2 centers made the top 40 in ORPM.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM

As I said:


Big man value is now centered around their defense more than ever before.

They don't drive offenses anymore.

[Raven]

A PG usually dumps the ball to them in their spots.

Essentially, as I've said in the Spurs forum regarding the evolution of Kawhi's game, you need to be able to ball handle from at least the 3 point line on down if you want to be significant offensive threat in the league.

Davis is one of the better defensive players in the league, ranking 6th DRPM. Check out the RPM leaderboard and see how pretty much every 7 footer has limited offensive impact. Only 2 centers made the top 40 in ORPM.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM

As I said:



They don't drive offenses anymore.

not really relevant.. why can't AD get one of his teams to the play offs when Blake, Aldridge, Dirk can? Surely Kevin Love isn't there for his D.. And so on, and so forth.. It's just excuse after another, at some point people just need to accept that he isn't that good.

[DAF86]

Talking about a players' "decline" when he posted a PER of 27.5 and a RPM of 4.35. Both significant better numbers than the previous year. :lol

[ElNono]

been saying for a couple seasons he's been living off the hype

[Arcadian]

Easy explanation. It's a guard's game now.

Exactly...Davis is a fantastic player, but the current league doesn't value his skills enough.

Thank you for giving an explanation with more depth than "cuz he a faggot now!"

[Down Under]

A PG usually dumps the ball to them in their spots.

Essentially, as I've said in the Spurs forum regarding the evolution of Kawhi's game, you need to be able to ball handle from at least the 3 point line on down if you want to be significant offensive threat in the league.

Davis is one of the better defensive players in the league, ranking 6th DRPM. Check out the RPM leaderboard and see how pretty much every 7 footer has limited offensive impact. Only 2 centers made the top 40 in ORPM.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM

As I said:



They don't drive offenses anymore.

I'm fairly sure they changed the rule in mid 00s where you no longer had to throw a hard double at the post - you could basically float between the post player & shooters which made it harder to collapse defenses from the post and an even less efficient way for a team to score.

[midnightpulp]

I'm fairly sure they changed the rule in mid 00s where you no longer had to throw a hard double at the post - you could basically float between the post player & shooters which made it harder to collapse defenses from the post and an even less efficient way for a team to score.

Wasn't aware of that. If they changed the rule in that fashion, then it further proves the NBA was/is hard-on to makes this a guard/perimeter player's league.

Makes sense. When the Spurs were dominating that era, all I heard on other forums is how boring they were. No dunks, chucking, personality, just a mechanically efficient offense centered around Duncan (although Duncan's game would be entertaining and interesting to anyone who is truly a basketball fan). The low ratings the Spurs drew in the Finals probably further confirmed that NBA fans don't want to see boring old post play.

NBA found its formula now. I think it's utter shit, but oh well.

[Down Under]

Wasn't aware of that. If they changed the rule in that fashion, then it further proves the NBA was/is hard-on to makes this a guard/perimeter player's league.

Makes sense. When the Spurs were dominating that era, all I heard on other forums is how boring they were. No dunks, chucking, personality, just a mechanically efficient offense centered around Duncan (although Duncan's game would be entertaining and interesting to anyone who is truly a basketball fan). The low ratings the Spurs drew in the Finals probably further confirmed that NBA fans don't want to see boring old post play.

NBA found its formula now. I think it's utter shit, but oh well.
Makes me appreciate TD even more, probably being a Top 3 player in the league in 2007 & hands the keys to Parker knowing Pick & Rolls between those 2 would be more efficient than post ups from that point on, despite being in his prime. I love post play - the footwork, the moves & countermoves, the touch around the rim of a skilled big is great. I like ball movement & player movement also, but it seemed to have gone too far the other way, where it's basically chuck first without a lot of penetration. Driving & kicking combined with constant ball & player movement is probably the best which was basically the 2012-2015 Spurs.

[Arcadian]

I'm fairly sure they changed the rule in mid 00s where you no longer had to throw a hard double at the post - you could basically float between the post player & shooters which made it harder to collapse defenses from the post and an even less efficient way for a team to score.

Which rule exactly are you referring to?

[Down Under]

Which rule exactly are you referring to?
It was something along the lines of eliminating illegal defense on the strongside, whereas previously if you floated close enough to the post player (not sure of distance), it was illegal defense because you were doubling without the ball. My memory of it changing is pretty vague though, but it did discourage post play further.

[Darth_Pelican]

AD has not been clutch when games are on the line. One reason is that teams double team him because the talent around him has pretty much sucked. Another reason is that he's not great at creating his own shot. He's only 24 years old so while I don't think his skills have declined, he still hasn't lived up to the hype that he once received. This season will be the best team that he's had so far (AD, Cousins, Holiday, Rondo), so it's time for him to take that next step.

[Arcadian]

He's so young, he's not even peaking yet. He'll improve for a few more years.

[Canyonero]

Still a better PG than Parker

[Spurtacular]

A paper tiger, imo. But he would have great potential as a 1B or 2 to Kawhi.

[Killakobe81]

I didn't say Blake was better. Just that Davis gets a free pass for not living up to his potential.

I will say this, though: a healthy Blake has finished top 3 in MVP voting. Has Davis ever done that? :downspin:

I brought up the same point recently ... but was told that doesn't mean shit because MVP pool was weak that year ...even if it was the case due to injury ...doesnt change the fact at one time, for at least one season Blake was a legit top 5 player in the league.

[Pelicans78]

This thread

Helps not having Jrue Holiday as the second option or primary ball-handler. Davis is having his best season since 2014-2015.

[Arcadian]

Definitely a top 10 player, and Davis > Cousins. They take turns dominating, but Davis is more consistent and doesn't melt down like a bitch when things aren't going his way.

[Stabula]

Definitely a top 10 player, and Davis > Cousins. They take turns dominating, but Davis is more consistent and doesn't melt down like a bitch when things aren't going his way.

Yeah true but nigga's always injured. I think I'd take a whiny bitch over a player who spends half the season and the playoffs in a suit.

[DAF86]

What a retarded ass thread, tbh.

[dbreiden83080]

one of the least talked about things in the NBA tbh.. everyone is shitting on Griffin's inability to take the next step, but not him for some reason. this nigga in 2015 was ranked 2nd overall by ESPN, over Steph fucking Curry, and was also picked by some on this site as the successor to Lebron

his stats past 3 years

PER
2015: 30.8
2016: 25.0
2017: 27.5

BPM
2015: 7.1
2016: 2.2
2017: 3.7

RPM (much better indicator of value than any other statistic)
2015: 8.18
2016: 1.92
2017: 4.35

What went wrong sons?

Duncan's career PER is 24..

[TDMVPDPOY]

didn't he just win potm or potw award?....still a scrub though...

this current team is more talented then the robinson pre injury led spurs, yet he cant even put together a +55 win season?

[DMC]

Poor coaching and ownership.

Davis would be a beast on any team that had some options, some shooting coaches, some trainers, doctors... a restroom.

[Chris Fall]

His team is pretty flawed in the current game. Better suited for 90s or early 2000s when big men were valued and utilized more on offense and were the anchor of the defense. Now teams need versatile wing defenders to switch, recover, and defend out on the perimeter all the way to the three point line regardless of position. Pelicans have a lot of small guards.

Offensively the Pelicans are top 5 in the league in fg% but bottom 5 in the league in 3pt%. When they start Holiday, Rondo, and Cunningham, those three perimeter guys are collectively shooting under 25% from 3. Those are three perimeter guys playing 80 minutes a game giving them no outside shooting. That's why old ass Jameer Nelson still plays a lot of minutes and Moore who is good at nothing but shooting still gets run. In fact it's surprising they have a winning record with a few quality wins. Also doesn't help when your 7 foot, 300 pound center leads the league in turnovers.

Anthony Davis is hardly a problem much less the problem. He's a monster.

[Pelicans78]

This thread keeps going and going.

[Darth_Pelican]

AD is pretty much making history every night in the NBA. This thread is a fucking joke.

[spursistan]

What a shitty ass thread :lol..

[AlexJones]

Congratulations, AD. You're now only #17 in the league in RPM, and the Pelicans have gone on a 6 game winning streak against Lakers, BKN, Suns, Heat, Bucks, Suns. (needed 3 OT wins).

They definitely can challenge the Spurs/Thunder in the first round. Not.

[AlexJones]

is he top 10 though? yeah obviously. Probably on the same level as Russ but he's stll not as good as his 2015 self

[Chris Fall]

LeBron 18th in RPM. I’d say that’s good company.

Davis 2nd in the league in PER.

Pelicans are not a good team overall. Jrue has played well for the most part. Beyond Davis and Jrue and without Boogie, that roster is doo doo. Without the superhuman efforts of Davis, they’d be fighting for lottery position, not playoff position.

[Darth_Pelican]

968338960169820160

[whitemamba]

968338960169820160

jesus christ.

[Killakobe81]

lol dude elbowed on to mvp talks but Harden still fave.

[Clipper Nation]

I guess Skip Bayless has decided Davis will be his new LeBron when LeBron retires:

968525749299957763

968469389292032004

[Raven]

he's clearly improved a lot. Good for him.

[spurraider21]

AD is pretty much making history every night in the NBA. This thread is a fucking joke.
5 rings, faggot

[TDfan2007]

He has maybe the most picture-perfect jumper that I've ever seen for a Big. His arc is just ridiculous. His touch around the basket and ball-handling are also at guard levels. Also helps that he has solid PGs in Rondo and Holiday who spoonfeed him easy baskets, which help him get into rhythm. Can't underestimate how much it helps to have guys who look for you as a big.

Easily the best regular season big man in the NBA. I'm excited to see if he can keep this up in the playoffs, because he's fun to watch. Definitely in the KG mold as a scorer...minus the psycho on-court antics.

And before anyone mentions it, yes Dirk has a pretty stroke too, but his follow-through is a little unorthodox imo (he shoots more with his middle and ring fingers).

[Killakobe81]

He has maybe the most picture-perfect jumper that I've ever seen for a Big. His arc is just ridiculous. His touch around the basket and ball-handling are also at guard levels. Also helps that he has solid PGs in Rondo and Holiday who spoonfeed him easy baskets, which help him get into rhythm. Can't underestimate how much it helps to have guys who look for you as a big.

Easily the best regular season big man in the NBA. I'm excited to see if he can keep this up in the playoffs, because he's fun to watch. Definitely in the KG mold as a scorer...minus the psycho on-court antics.

And before anyone mentions it, yes Dirk has a pretty stroke too, but his follow-through is a little unorthodox imo (he shoots more with his middle and ring fingers).

Great post agree ...his only issue been durabilty tbh but he starting to play 70 plus games (last year and probably this one)

[Brunodf]

On offense he's pretty great tbh but his defense is average at best

[Chris Fall]

On offense he's pretty great tbh but his defense is average at best

To be fair, it’s pretty difficult to be a great defensive big anymore, especially the last couple seasons, and particularly for PFs. Former big mentality on defense is to anchor yourself in and around the paint, hold post position, and protect the rim. Now, even centers are forced further and further out on defense, have to guard all the way out to the three point line, not only play screen defender on the pick-and-roll but be the on-ball defender as well, AND still recover to play help defense at the rim.

10-15 years ago, I bet Anthony Davis averages well over 3 blocks a game, maybe close to 4, and his defensive rating is 5-10 points lower / better.

Are there really any great big man defenders anymore?

[spurraider21]

To be fair, it’s pretty difficult to be a great defensive big anymore, especially the last couple seasons, and particularly for PFs. Former big mentality on defense is to anchor yourself in and around the paint, hold post position, and protect the rim. Now, even centers are forced further and further out on defense, have to guard all the way out to the three point line, not only play screen defender on the pick-and-roll but be the on-ball defender as well, AND still recover to play help defense at the rim.

10-15 years ago, I bet Anthony Davis averages well over 3 blocks a game, maybe close to 4, and his defensive rating is 5-10 points lower / better.

Are there really any great big man defenders anymore?
not many. but gobert, embiid are fantastic. whiteside too

[Darth_Pelican]

NK1oqVMRR5U

[DAF86]

To be fair, it’s pretty difficult to be a great defensive big anymore, especially the last couple seasons, and particularly for PFs. Former big mentality on defense is to anchor yourself in and around the paint, hold post position, and protect the rim. Now, even centers are forced further and further out on defense, have to guard all the way out to the three point line, not only play screen defender on the pick-and-roll but be the on-ball defender as well, AND still recover to play help defense at the rim.

10-15 years ago, I bet Anthony Davis averages well over 3 blocks a game, maybe close to 4, and his defensive rating is 5-10 points lower / better.

Are there really any great big man defenders anymore?

Meh, bigmen are still at the top of most defensive metrics. Last time I checked Gasol was leading the Spurs on defensive efficiency. Most of what you say it's true, but size will always matter on D.

[Spurtacular]

A healthy Brake was a legit top 7 talent and once upon a time playd like one of the top 5 players in the NBA.

Dude is underrated. If he can stay healthy the clips might surprise a a lot of people.

You were slobbing all over Blake and Davis's nobs. Not so much now. They definitely falling fast.

[DAF86]

This fucking thread. :lol

[spursistan]

OP should stick to bandwagoning the Warriors :lmao..

[BD24]

Lol at the fucking retards in this thread. :lol

[lefty]

A paper tiger, imo. But he would have great potential as a 1B or 2 to Kawhi.
Lel

[Clipper Nation]

It's nice that the Pelicans finally have a real franchise player, as opposed to the flopping, choking manlet who once pretended to be their franchise player.

[Brunodf]

He's a great scorer but his defense is very overrated and he's a below average passer tbh

[007nites]

He's a great scorer but his defense is very overrated and he's a below average passer tbh

He led the league in blocked shots and altered many.