PtC: The Spurs may be returning to The Beautiful Game

[NASpurs]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/10/9/16447748/san-antonio-spurs-return-the-beautiful-game

[Chinook]

Ugh. The Beautiful Game had little to do with threes and everything to do with free-flowing offense without clear first options. That's not the case this year. I fully expect to see isos left and right with only spurts of free-flowing plays.

[rjv]

while the author uses a good deal of hyperbole mixed with some degree of wishful thinking, i wouldn't disagree with the assertion that the spurs are looking to increase the amount of three pointers they attempt per game and are in the process of tweaking the offense (to what extent, we shall see).

[Dex]

Ugh. The Beautiful Game had little to do with threes and everything to do with free-flowing offense without clear first options. That's not the case this year. I fully expect to see isos left and right with only spurts of free-flowing plays.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think Pop maybe realizing that we can't just play iso-ball all the time and is trying to incorporate more motion. In regards to Aldridge, they've already said that they are going to both incorporate more cutting and quick entries to him, as well as have him step out more. The rest of the team seemed to be filled with guys who can slash or shoot.

The big question is Kawhi...iso is obviously his strong suit, and you can't just go away from your best player's game. But even he would benefit from getting open with a little more space and motion.

I think Pop tried to go after the Warriors "weak link" with size last year...and that obviously didn't work. Even before Kawhi went down, the Spurs were still having to play the small game and couldn't even really get Gasol or Dedmon on the floor against them.

[Chinook]

I think you are right to an extent, but I think Pop maybe realizing that we can't just play iso-ball all the time and is trying to incorporate more motion. In regards to Aldridge, they've already said that they are going to both incorporate more cutting and quick entries to him, as well as have him step out more. The rest of the team seemed to be filled with guys who can slash or shoot.

The big question is Kawhi...iso is obviously his strong suit, and you can't just go away from your best player's game. But even he would benefit from getting open with a little more space and motion.

I think Pop tried to go after the Warriors "weak link" with size last year...and that obviously didn't work. Even before Kawhi went down, the Spurs were still having to play the small game and couldn't even really get Gasol or Dedmon on the floor against them.

You'd want Kawhi having practice time to get different plays established. LMA is getting great plays called for him, and it looks really obvious why some people thought he would be a better center of the offense. It's just much easier to plan around a big terrorizing the paint than a wing isoing. But Kawhi is such a better offensive player that it's ridiculous. I honestly don't know if there's a way to marry iso and BG outside of having differentiatable modes the offense is in.

Can Kawhi score in the BG? Of course he can, but his ceiling is just not as high there, and the team will need iso games when the going gets tough (which is why Gay and even Forbes are so interesting). Even the same sets Pop called during the BG were completely different with Kawhi and LMA. It was a lot more stagnant and had timing that hurt all their shooters. Unless they can get Kawhi plays that have a clear rhythm like PnR drives (not pull-ups or abortions into isos) or duck-ins, it'll feel as stark of a contrast as BG to Parker's "hero ball" did back in the day.

[Dex]

You'd want Kawhi having practice time to get different plays established. LMA is getting great plays called for him, and it looks really obvious why some people thought he would be a better center of the offense. It's just much easier to plan around a big terrorizing the paint than a wing isoing. But Kawhi is such a better offensive player that it's ridiculous. I honestly don't know if there's a way to marry iso and BG outside of having differentiatable modes the offense is in.

Can Kawhi score in the BG? Of course he can, but his ceiling is just not as high there, and the team will need iso games when the going gets tough (which is why Gay and even Forbes are so interesting). Even the same sets Pop called during the BG were completely different with Kawhi and LMA. It was a lot more stagnant and had timing that hurt all their shooters. Unless they can get Kawhi plays that have a clear rhythm like PnR drives (not pull-ups or abortions into isos) or duck-ins, it'll feel as stark of a contrast as BG to Parker's "hero ball" did back in the day.

Good points. :tu I guess it's just easy to wax nostalgic about the BG days. I still think the team could benefit from incorporating more of those concepts, but I guess it's probably better suited to the bench unit, as it was last season.

[hooperflash]

Thread title = Pounding the c*ck?

[DAF86]

As long as we keep playing Gasol and Aldridge together and one of either Tony or Murray see significant time we won't be shooting threes at the clip we need to, to trully contend against GS.

[itzsoweezee]

LMA has to become a much better passer.

[bklynspursfan]

As long as we keep playing Gasol and Aldridge together and one of either Tony or Murray see significant time we won't be shooting threes at the clip we need to, to trully contend against GS.

Pau has become a damned good 3 point shooter, and TP is respectable in that regard too, shot +50% in the playoffs.

I would have to think against GS though, having guys who can switch often will be used most, and Pau (at least against their starters) will struggle there.

[TheGreatYacht]

If Becky takes the keys, yea I can see that. But it ain't happening. This is still Poop's team and he hasn't given a damn about coaching basketball since 2014, and he admitted it when he said he did a poor job of incorporating LMA. Expect Kawhi to turn shit to gold like usually does in this offense. Him and LMA have no other option than to ISO and that's on Poop.

[duncan2k5]

As long as we keep playing Gasol and Aldridge together and one of either Tony or Murray see significant time we won't be shooting threes at the clip we need to, to trully contend against GS.

U are looking at it wrong... We WON'T get threes unless we get Murray's penetration... Against good teams like golden state, they play defense like us... One on one and force ur best player to beat us...

[Chinook]

U are looking at it wrong... We WON'T get threes unless we get Murray's penetration... Against good teams like golden state, they play defense like us... One on one and force ur best player to beat us...

That's absolutely not how the Spurs play D.

[TheGreatYacht]

U are looking at it wrong... We WON'T get threes unless we get Murray's penetration... Against good teams like golden state, they play defense like us... One on one and force ur best player to beat us...
Sucks you still have power over there in the islands tbh

[TD 21]

If Becky takes the keys, yea I can see that. But it ain't happening. This is still Poop's team and he hasn't given a damn about coaching basketball since 2014, and he admitted it when he said he did a poor job of incorporating LMA. Expect Kawhi to turn shit to gold like usually does in this offense. Him and LMA have no other option than to ISO and that's on Poop.

It's got little to do with who "takes the keys" and is mostly personnel related. From '12-'15, they had an unprecedented combination of high IQ, continuity and unselfishness. Helping matters, was where the key players were at in their careers, particularly Duncan and Leonard. Without a superstar, they not only knew that they had to play that way to reach their potential, but that their potential was champions.

[Dex]

LMA has to become a much better passer.

6 assists last game.

He needs to keep that up...and he needs shooting around it to do that.

[raybies]

6 assists last game.

He needs to keep that up...and he needs shooting around it to do that.

Although I'm happy for LMA and his 6 assists, most of those came on doubles that were right in front of him. It was extremely easy to read. I want to see him get assists when a good coach will send help from the weakside. He struggled mightily in those scenarios especially in the playoffs. But here's hoping his passing has indeed improved.

[duncan2k5]

That's absolutely not how the Spurs play D.

So ur saying we double team the star players? If that's what u think, u don't watch the games... We play everyone 1 on 1 and force them Baseline

[Chinook]

So ur saying we double team the star players? If that's what u think, u don't watch the games... We play everyone 1 on 1 and force them Baseline

The Spurs help a ton. They'll even triple-team guys like Lebron. Just because those guys don't surround the opponent to leave holes doesn't mean they play straight up. No one is left on an island.

[ceds]

The Spurs help a ton. They'll even triple-team guys like Lebron. Just because those guys don't surround the opponent to leave holes doesn't mean they play straight up. No one is left on an island.

Thank you

- out

[DMC]

You're not creating a Kevin Durant from a Rudy Gay.

[Russ]

You're not creating a Kevin Durant from a Rudy Gay.

But you might create a Steph Curry from a Bryn Forbes. Just sayin.

[itzsoweezee]

So ur saying we double team the star players? If that's what u think, u don't watch the games... We play everyone 1 on 1 and force them Baseline

That's not true at all. No one does that in the modern nba.

[John B]

I've seen Splitter and Diaw in the bench. Are they helping the new guys with the BG?

[SAGirl]

Realgm already noting that all teams in preseason are jacking up the 3 at unprecedented levels. A 3rd of Spurs preseason shots have been 3s. https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/team_stats/2018/Averages/Team_Totals/Preseason/tpfga/desc

[DMC]

But you might create a Steph Curry from a Bryn Forbes. Just sayin.

I doubt it. Generational talent is called that for a reason.

[BillMc]

Realgm already noting that all teams in preseason are jacking up the 3 at unprecedented levels. A 3rd of Spurs preseason shots have been 3s. https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/team_stats/2018/Averages/Team_Totals/Preseason/tpfga/desc

Want the Spurs to be successful, so whatever wins in today's game. But as a fan of the sport in general, all these 3s are hurting the product. Makes the game a lot less interesting.

[SAGirl]

Want the Spurs to be successful, so whatever wins in today's game. But as a fan of the sport in general, all these 3s are hurting the product. Makes the game a lot less interesting.
There’s an interesting discussion in realgm general board about it. The shot has increased every season for the past decade and some believe it will normalize once it gets to 40-45% of shots taken and hit a plateau. Who knows? 38% of Spurs shots in the preseason have been 3s already so it’s not so outlandish.

[raybies]

Well wasn't the game the same way when every possession was a post up? Predictable and uninteresting? I think the game is more interesting now just cause of relatability for example. Anyone can shoot a three but not everyone can dunk. Not everyone is 7 foot and can play the post. What is the average height of the world... There's a reason Curry is so popular. Basketball porn as it is called is more prevalent now then it has been in a long time. Spurs imo changed the game after the 2014 title run. Everyone wants to emulate that. Yes there's more chucking but the ball movement on a league wide scale is definitely up. I would like to see a little more balance on post but analytics are telling teams not to double to not give up the three so the balance will come. Just an influx of numbers right now.\

for the record: i think hand checking should be legal

[Ice009]

Pau has become a damned good 3 point shooter, and TP is respectable in that regard too, shot +50% in the playoffs.

I would have to think against GS though, having guys who can switch often will be used most, and Pau (at least against their starters) will struggle there.

It's all about volume. Pau and Tony don't take many. Really happy with what Tony did in the playoffs from 3 point range, but to beat GS, they're going to need to take and make those shots in volume. Not just one or two here and there.

[SAGirl]

I love the beautiful game even the GSW version and I loved how the Spurs have played in preseason but the 3 pt shot is becoming op. There’s going to be a point where one questions why it should be valued higher. There are more and more shooters capable of taking the shot and it’s almost as easy for them as making a layup over contested hands for someone else. I am not heavily versed in analytics but it also feels unfair a foul at the 3 pt line is worth more than a foul on a 2, even a strong slapping if someone close to the basket. There’s just a lot that doesn’t feel right about it and when every team is going to be jacking up 35-40 3s per game (according to future projections) just to be able to compete offensively then one starts to feel like it’s just too much. I don’t think the NBA is there yet, but you can see where they are heading.

[raybies]

I love the beautiful game even the GSW version and I loved how the Spurs have played in preseason but the 3 pt shot is becoming op. There’s going to be a point where one questions why it should be valued higher. There are more and more shooters capable of taking the shot and it’s almost as easy for them as making a layup over contested hands for someone else. I am not heavily versed in analytics but it also feels unfair a foul at the 3 pt line is worth more than a foul on a 2, even a strong slapping if someone close to the basket. There’s just a lot that doesn’t feel right about it and when every team is going to be jacking up 35-40 3s per game (according to future projections) just to be able to compete offensively then one starts to feel like it’s just too much. I don’t think the NBA is there yet, but you can see where they are heading.
Well if it gets to that and does indeed cause ratings to dip, you can be sure the league will do something about it. Right now the 3 pt shot is still in the honeymoon phase... We'll see how it progresses.

[BillMc]

I love the beautiful game even the GSW version and I loved how the Spurs have played in preseason but the 3 pt shot is becoming op. There’s going to be a point where one questions why it should be valued higher. There are more and more shooters capable of taking the shot and it’s almost as easy for them as making a layup over contested hands for someone else. I am not heavily versed in analytics but it also feels unfair a foul at the 3 pt line is worth more than a foul on a 2, even a strong slapping if someone close to the basket. There’s just a lot that doesn’t feel right about it and when every team is going to be jacking up 35-40 3s per game (according to future projections) just to be able to compete offensively then one starts to feel like it’s just too much. I don’t think the NBA is there yet, but you can see where they are heading.

Well said.

[spurs10]

I love the beautiful game even the GSW version and I loved how the Spurs have played in preseason but the 3 pt shot is becoming op. There’s going to be a point where one questions why it should be valued higher. There are more and more shooters capable of taking the shot and it’s almost as easy for them as making a layup over contested hands for someone else. I am not heavily versed in analytics but it also feels unfair a foul at the 3 pt line is worth more than a foul on a 2, even a strong slapping if someone close to the basket. There’s just a lot that doesn’t feel right about it and when every team is going to be jacking up 35-40 3s per game (according to future projections) just to be able to compete offensively then one starts to feel like it’s just too much. I don’t think the NBA is there yet, but you can see where they are heading. Good post. While I certainly think there will indeed be a lot of analytics put into the situation ( probably already a summer's worth) the fact that we have shooters is a big plus for us. When you you know Curry can shoot from half court you guard for that, but having multiple 3 point threats is harder to game plan for. We have some talent ourselves.


Well said. Concur sir!

[Nathan89]

I hate when someone(realgm) seemingly talks about other forms of scoring as inefficient and therefore unwatchable. The only reason it's inefficient is because of the points the shot is worth. The shot is going in at a far better percentage. Yet they just keep spewing inefficient.

[Phenomanul]

I hate when someone(realgm) seemingly talks about other forms of scoring as inefficient and therefore unwatchable. The only reason it's inefficient is because of the points the shot is worth. The shot is going in at a far better percentage. Yet they just keep spewing inefficient.

It's a different form of inefficiency.

10 three point attempts at 40% = 12 points

10 two point attempts at 50% = 10 points

In the bigger picture teams like the Warriors or the Rockets hedge against the numbers and understand that more 3 point attempts puts more points on the board. Personally I don' t like the fact that it has reduced the game to 3 point chucking. Jordan for example had an elite mid-range game and to me that was "exciting basketball". So yeah, your overall point is well understood - but they're strictly talking about the numbers.

[Nathan89]

It's a different form of inefficiency.

10 three point attempts at 40% = 12 points

10 two point attempts at 50% = 10 points

In the bigger picture teams like the Warriors or the Rockets hedge against the numbers and understand that more 3 point attempts puts more points on the board. Personally I don' t like the fact that it has reduced the game to 3 point chucking. Jordan for example had an elite mid-range game and to me that was "exciting basketball". So yeah, your overall point is well understood - but they're strictly talking about the numbers.

I'm aware that it is inefficient given the points awarded. They speak of it like the shot is naturally inefficient and therefore bad for the game/viewing experience. They blurring/regurgitating talking points that would in some conversations be relevant.

[rjv]

It's a different form of inefficiency.

10 three point attempts at 40% = 12 points

10 two point attempts at 50% = 10 points

In the bigger picture teams like the Warriors or the Rockets hedge against the numbers and understand that more 3 point attempts puts more points on the board. Personally I don' t like the fact that it has reduced the game to 3 point chucking. Jordan for example had an elite mid-range game and to me that was "exciting basketball". So yeah, your overall point is well understood - but they're strictly talking about the numbers. red auerbach was initially opposed to the addition of the three point shot being utilized by the NBA as it had been in the ABA because he was afraid it would turn the league into a circus and would dilute the integrity of the game. of course, he softened that stance when the three point shot became a key weapon for the celtics. still, it does appear as if he has been proven right because the game is being altered for the worse. there are almost no big men who can play with their back to the basket and the in-between game is hard to find (credit to Kawhi for having one). on the other hand, the league gets its high scoring games that satisfy the changing demographic now populated by millenials and there are some moments where spacing leads to the passing that can make the game so aesthetic from time to time.

[NameLess Scrub]

Well wasn't the game the same way when every possession was a post up? Predictable and uninteresting? I think the game is more interesting now just cause of relatability for example. Anyone can shoot a three but not everyone can dunk. Not everyone is 7 foot and can play the post. What is the average height of the world... There's a reason Curry is so popular. Basketball porn as it is called is more prevalent now then it has been in a long time. Spurs imo changed the game after the 2014 title run. Everyone wants to emulate that. Yes there's more chucking but the ball movement on a league wide scale is definitely up. I would like to see a little more balance on post but analytics are telling teams not to double to not give up the three so the balance will come. Just an influx of numbers right now.\

for the record: i think hand checking should be legal

Relatability seems valid to some degree, but I don't know that is significant to me.

It's still a bunch of guys mostly in their 20s earning millions for having good genes and playing a game.

[DAF86]

Pau has become a damned good 3 point shooter, and TP is respectable in that regard too, shot +50% in the playoffs.

I would have to think against GS though, having guys who can switch often will be used most, and Pau (at least against their starters) will struggle there.

Neither of those guys shoot enough 3's.

[ceds]

.

[wildbill2u]

It was called the Beautiful Game because the motion and unselfishness in passing to teammates was beautiful to a basketball purist. The plays that made it exciting and fun to watch were those extra passes that found someone with the best shot, especially under the basket and not as much on the 3s. It was that passing wizardry from Duncan, Diaw, Manu and Tony that made it go. I'd rather watch the Spurs play like that again than shoot 50% on a lot of 3s.

[Chinook]

It was called the Beautiful Game because the motion and unselfishness in passing to teammates was beautiful to a basketball purist. The plays that made it exciting and fun to watch were those extra passes that found someone with the best shot, especially under the basket and not as much on the 3s. It was that passing wizardry from Duncan, Diaw, Manu and Tony that made it go. I'd rather watch the Spurs play like that again than shoot 50% on a lot of 3s.

Seriously, I don't understand why so many people are focusing on three-pointers. The BG used those only insofar as being able to take advantage of bad perimeter D. Big-to-big passing and off-ball cuts were a much bigger hallmark.

[cutewizard]

Guys, how do you rate Joff as a passer so far?

Can he be our next Diaw?

[SAGirl]

Guys, how do you rate Joff as a passer so far?

Can he be our next Diaw?
He's skilled. I have been impressed. I want to see him in real games b4 a comparison to Diaw frankly. Danny said he reminds him more of Tiago.. who was also a skilled passer.

[dbestpro]

Solution to the three is to move the three back another 3 feet, and remove the corner three.

[Chinook]

Guys, how do you rate Joff as a passer so far?

Can he be our next Diaw?

He's ambitious more than good. When he gets lucky, his passes look fantastic. But he turns it over a lot trying to fit in ill-advised tosses.

[Chinook]

Solution to the three is to move the three back another 3 feet, and remove the corner three.
Would help. Would also help to have a three-seconds like call for guys who stay behind the arc too long.

[YGWHI]

I think people tend to confuse Spurs 2014 BG with today Warriors BG.

The Spurs didn't rely on 3's the way that Warriors do now but what people often forget that Spurs BG was a collective-team answer to Parker's injury.

For example, we didn't see many of BG in the 2014 regular season nor in the 1st round against Mavs.

Of course the Spurs should shoot more 3's for mathematical reasons like others said here. But can they return to the BG? I doubt. There are many key pieces that this team would miss to play that way.

[BillMc]

He's ambitious more than good. When he gets lucky, his passes look fantastic. But he turns it over a lot trying to fit in ill-advised tosses.

Why are you bringing up Manu? :lol

[Chinook]

I think people tend to confuse Spurs 2014 BG with today Warriors BG.

The Spurs didn't rely on 3's the way that Warriors do now but what people often forget that Spurs BG was a collective-team answer to Parker's injury.

For example, we didn't see many of BG in the 2014 regular season nor in the 1st round against Mavs.

Of course the Spurs should shoot more 3's for mathematical reasons like others said here. But can they return to the BG? I doubt. There are many key pieces that this team would miss to play that way.

I don't think it was just about Parker. The BG was largely what the United Nations bench ran. I agree that the starters started doing it more to compensate for Parker, just as the team without Kawhi is doing it more in the pre-season. But the "good to great" mantra can come back if everyone invests in it. Seeing guys like Gay and Lauvergne embrace it so quic is heartening. You can't make up for what Tim and Boris brought, though. And hell, Tiago, Jack, T-Mac and a lot of other guys committed to it while in SA.

Can't also forget Beli and how well he and Manu played off each other. Team hasn't come close to replacing that.

[Chinook]

Why are you bringing up Manu? :lol

It's much the same, but Joff's passing rating in 2k is probably 30 points lower.

[YGWHI]

You can't make up for what Tim and Boris brought, though. And hell, Tiago...Can't also forget Beli and how well he and Manu played off each other. Team hasn't come close to replacing that.
Exactly.

[SAGirl]

I don't think it was just about Parker. The BG was largely what the United Nations bench ran. I agree that the starters started doing it more to compensate for Parker, just as the team without Kawhi is doing it more in the pre-season. But the "good to great" mantra can come back if everyone invests in it. Seeing guys like Gay and Lauvergne embrace it so quic is heartening. You can't make up for what Tim and Boris brought, though. And hell, Tiago, Jack, T-Mac and a lot of other guys committed to it while in SA.

Can't also forget Beli and how well he and Manu played off each other. Team hasn't come close to replacing that.
And they may need to start heading in a different direction bc Manu shouldn't be playing that many minutes anyways...
I'd like to see the Spurs develop and search what the rest of this roster can give rather bring the exact BG back, but a different version of it can happen with different guys.

I defined personally the BG thing as an unselfish way of playing. So, to me other teams have embraced different versions of it, but GSW blew it up with an explosion in 3 pt shooting that is unprecendented.

Here's Pop on the 3 pt shot:
918095462141517827

No matter how he's won championships b4, he has to embrace the reality of the game right now.

[Seventyniner]

No matter how he's won championships b4, he has to embrace the reality of the game right now.

Pop has proven to be one of the best at adjusting the team to the reality of the league.

[cutewizard]

mAY THE SPURS evolve!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cutewizard]

For comparison purposes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjadmjleQT8&t=107s

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRxMdABA1qQ&t=263s

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vPIPB0_iP0

[SAGirl]

Pop has proven to be one of the best at adjusting the team to the reality of the league.
That is why I put that quote there. In it, he's precisely saying how he doesn't really like to be shoehorned to play a 3 pt chucking style but hast to, basically.

[diego]

Damn watching those vids just makes you miss Duncan bad...

[BillMc]

Damn watching those vids just makes you miss Duncan bad...
+1 billion

[bklynspursfan]

Pop has proven to be one of the best at adjusting the team to the reality of the league.

I was just going to say the same, he's always adjusted the team/style of play to how the current state of the league is, regardless of whether he likes it or not. He's had similar quotes before and after the 2014 run I believe stating he doesn't like it, but understands you have to embrace it to a certain degree. It obviously played a huge role in the teams success in 2013/2014

[duncan2k5]

This thread has shown me not many ppl know the difference between a double team and help defense...

[duncan2k5]

Stop comparing us to Golden state when it comes to threes... They are great because at any given moment, 4 or 5 ppl on their court can either shoot a three, or take it to the hole and finish... We have either shooters, or sashes... We have MAYBE 4 guys on the roster that can do both... And one is 40...we just aren't as quick and versatile

[Chinook]

This thread has shown me not many ppl know the difference between a double team and help defense...

We do know the difference between a counter-argument and moving the goalposts, though.

[Phenomanul]

Bump: I haven't seen it unleashed yet (small sample size I know).

[Chinook]

Bump: I haven't seen it unleashed yet (small sample size I know).

PtR may as well stand for Putrid Takes, Recurring.

[Phenomanul]

PtR may as well stand for Putrid Takes, Recurring.

They didn't realize that Boris and Tiago's passing ability (and to a lesser extent Marco Belinelli's unheralded cutting skill) is what allowed that offense to work. Duncan was a superb passer as well. Ginobili's and Parker's ball-handling was crucial to that offense. Green's, Mills', Belinelli's, and Ginobili's threat from deep provided the spacing.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgIeKtkECek

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWvmhJ_P9Q

[cutewizard]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/10/21/16512258/san-antonio-spurs-defense-length-wingspan-future

[DAF86]

As long as we keep playing Gasol and Aldridge together and one of either Tony or Murray see significant time we won't be shooting threes at the clip we need to, to trully contend against GS.

Yeee... Nop.

[DaBears]

I love the beautiful game even the GSW version and I loved how the Spurs have played in preseason but the 3 pt shot is becoming op. There’s going to be a point where one questions why it should be valued higher. There are more and more shooters capable of taking the shot and it’s almost as easy for them as making a layup over contested hands for someone else. I am not heavily versed in analytics but it also feels unfair a foul at the 3 pt line is worth more than a foul on a 2, even a strong slapping if someone close to the basket. There’s just a lot that doesn’t feel right about it and when every team is going to be jacking up 35-40 3s per game (according to future projections) just to be able to compete offensively then one starts to feel like it’s just too much. I don’t think the NBA is there yet, but you can see where they are heading.

Just wait till KL gets back... Then its going to be like watching mud dry...

J/K.. KL is the our MELO... -- NOT........... KL will look to get others involved more moving the ball around.. I am sure he & LMA had talks about how to make it work with each other.

[Chinook]

I think PtR may have accidentally stumbled on a good topic. The BG isn't coming back due to shooting (because, hell, they aren't shooting well in the first place). But the potential for it to come back is there. If Green's game holds up, the team will have more competent slashers than they have recently. Danny, Patty, Kyle, Bryn and DeJounte just need to be locked in mentally at the right time, and the team needs to have the right attitude scheme-wise for it to happen. But seeing a Green who not only drives for the first time in six years but who also is moving without the ball a ton more than he has since 2014-2015 gives hope. Playing small as a default should help as well. Kyle has always been keen to dump off to other bigs, and Rudy is at least trying to fit in with that too.

I'm not saying it's going to come back, but you could totally see Kawhi posting up, Tony's man helping so Kawhi passes to Parker, who drives and kicks to Green, who attacks the close-out and dumps to Gay, who scoops to LMA for an open dunk. That actually seems realistic now, which is kind of amazing considering that they didn't get the penetrating guard I have been pushing for for years now.

[tholdren]

I think PtR may have accidentally stumbled on a good topic. The BG isn't coming back due to shooting (because, hell, they aren't shooting well in the first place). But the potential for it to come back is there. If Green's game holds up, the team will have more competent slashers than they have recently. Danny, Patty, Kyle, Bryn and DeJounte just need to be locked in mentally at the right time, and the team needs to have the right attitude scheme-wise for it to happen. But seeing a Green who not only drives for the first time in six years but who also is moving without the ball a ton more than he has since 2014-2015 gives hope. Playing small as a default should help as well. Kyle has always been keen to dump off to other bigs, and Rudy is at least trying to fit in with that too.

I'm not saying it's going to come back, but you could totally see Kawhi posting up, Tony's man helping so Kawhi passes to Parker, who drives and kicks to Green, who attacks the close-out and dumps to Gay, who scoops to LMA for an open dunk. That actually seems realistic now, which is kind of amazing considering that they didn't get the penetrating guard I have been pushing for for years now.

The beautiful game does not exist until picks get set and contact is made. They can get a good look here and there through ball movement, but until we get consistent screens it will be more stand around

[vander]

well this thread caused me to go back and watch all those John Rambo 'unstoppable' highlights of the 2014 season
as if it wasn't enough to be a fan of the most successful franchise in ports, that also happened to be a small market underdog; we also got to be a fans of the one and only beautiful game, that 2014 season will not be matched.

was a good run

[DAF86]

"come back to the beatiful game" :lol

:lol Midrange Aldridge getting 20 shots per game.
:lol shooting 30% from three.
:lol turning the ball over like nobody's business
:lol can't even crack 100

[hitmantb]

The Beautiful Game relied on:

1) Parker/Ginobili able to dribble penetrate at a relatively high level (Parker's decline resulted in huge decline to TBG and resulted in our loss to Clippers in 2015, game 6 vs Rockets aside, the Clippers could have won it all that year if CP3 stayed healthy)
2) Duncan one of the greatest screeners (one of his most underrated trais) in league's history, even at his advanced age his screens were rock solid and did not abuse moving screen rules like GS
3) Just all around stability/cohesiveness/chemistry/teamwork big three brought to the table from a decade plus of playing together, this made up for their decline in athleticism to a large degree

Without it:

The current Spurs team is better off playing Memphis style grind it out and the style has been proved to be successful against GS. It is unfortunate we allocated too much money to Gasol and Mills and like Memphis, just don't have enough raw talent.

Who knows maybe treating Pau well is part of a ploy to get Marc? If we had Marc Gasol or Demarcus Cousins instead of Pau, when Leonard comes back we have a shot against GS.

Heck even with 2012-2014 Duncan we may have a chance. Out-of-prime Duncan is still such an amazing all-around defensive anchor and having him alongside Aldridge just dominates.

[tholdren]

Pau wont screen. Just throw him in the high post after a lma down screen and let him move the ball. Hes got better court vision than patty or deejuuuntahye

[SAGirl]

"come back to the beatiful game" :lol

:lol Midrange Aldridge getting 20 shots per game.
:lol shooting 30% from three.
:lol turning the ball over like nobody's business
:lol can't even crack 100
I have to agree to a degree... the reason it's to a degree is that since the team doesn't have Kawhi they have featured Aldridge and others more than they perhaps intended anyways, so I will withhold a final judgment until everyone is healthy and Pop is playing how he really intended to, then we shall see.
The reason I agree even without casting final judgement (thus the "degree") is that I think if you took this Aldridge and placed it in that 2014 team, they would have played very differently anyways to fit him in it and BG wouldn't have been there.

[SAGirl]

The beautiful game does not exist until picks get set and contact is made. They can get a good look here and there through ball movement, but until we get consistent screens it will be more stand around
Lamarcus is a very poor screen setter. He always wants to slip the screen to pop and he doesn't roll hard either. I saw very little of Joffrey since he got injured quickly, but the one thing I noticed in the few minutes I saw him was that he set good screens... perhaps that is what Manu had been missing these few games that he wasn't playing well... (and Patty).

Surprisingly, Kyle sets good screens at times.

Davis doesn't set good screens... he also wants to slip the screen to pop and he's very light and guys go around him really easily.

[tholdren]

Lamarcus is a very poor screen setter. He always wants to slip the screen to pop and he doesn't roll hard either. I saw very little of Joffrey since he got injured quickly, but the one thing I noticed in the few minutes I saw him was that he set good screens... perhaps that is what Manu had been missing these few games that he wasn't playing well... (and Patty).

Surprisingly, Kyle sets good screens at times.

Davis doesn't set good screens... he also wants to slip the screen to pop and he's very light and guys go around him really easily.

I agree with manu.

[Nathan89]

Lma is too limited for anything remotely close to beautiful game.

[DAF86]

I have to agree to a degree... the reason it's to a degree is that since the team doesn't have Kawhi they have featured Aldridge and others more than they perhaps intended anyways, so I will withhold a final judgment until everyone is healthy and Pop is playing how he really intended to, then we shall see.
The reason I agree even without casting final judgement (thus the "degree") is that I think if you took this Aldridge and placed it in that 2014 team, they would have played very differently anyways to fit him in it and BG wouldn't have been there.

The artcile, or piece of writting, or whatever this is, was written during and because of the preseason, where Kawhi didn't play either.

Once Kawhi comes back, the Spurs will play even less of the beatiful game because there you have another another guy that will be having a high usage %.

[ElNono]

You need selfless hard workers to pull off the beautiful game, tbh... much easier when we had Tiago, Boris, and Kawhi wasn't the star that he is today... it ain't happening with :cry more touches :cry LMA and black hole Rudy, IMO...

[Raven]

They didn't realize that Boris and Tiago's passing ability (and to a lesser extent Marco Belinelli's unheralded cutting skill) is what allowed that offense to work. Duncan was a superb passer as well. Ginobili's and Parker's ball-handling was crucial to that offense. Green's, Mills', Belinelli's, and Ginobili's threat from deep provided the spacing.

give me a break.

[Phenomanul]

give me a break.

I guess you disregarded the modifier... to "a lesser extent"... how convenient.

[Raven]

I guess you disregarded the modifier... to "a lesser extent"... how convenient.

he's been a proven cancer, stop trying to forget what was already accepted.

[Phenomanul]

he's been a proven cancer, stop trying to forget what was already accepted.

Him being a turnstile on defense does not equate to him being a cancer. The "Beautiful Game" was played on the offensive end of the floor and didn't necessitate strong play on the defensive end of the floor - sure the Spurs ALSO excelled on that end but that was a plus. There are many examples of the "Beautiful Game" offense out there on YouTube where Marco is on the floor. THAT was the point of my other comment.

[Chinook]

Him being a turnstile on defense does not equate to him being a cancer. The "Beautiful Game" was played on the offensive end of the floor and didn't necessitate strong play on the defensive end of the floor - sure the Spurs ALSO excelled on that end but that was a plus. There are many examples of the "Beautiful Game" offense out there on YouTube where Marco is on the floor. THAT was the point of my other comment.

Raven is just going through the motions with his Beli hate. He's been doing it for years now. Just let him have this.

[Raven]

Him being a turnstile on defense does not equate to him being a cancer. The "Beautiful Game" was played on the offensive end of the floor and didn't necessitate strong play on the defensive end of the floor - sure the Spurs ALSO excelled on that end but that was a plus. There are many examples of the "Beautiful Game" offense out there on YouTube where Marco is on the floor. THAT was the point of my other comment.

i know and i acknowledge that, it still bothers me to hell that anyone would remember him in a somewhat positive light, given how awful he was for us.