Give me a good reason why...

[duncan2k5]

Kawhi can't play SG? It's not as if he can't guard them... I actually think our best starting 5 is with Gay at the 3...i don't like him coming off the bench... Thats like benching Dwyane Wade just to get scoring off the bench... Sometimes the best option IS to start ur best 5 players (golden state)

That team would be big, athletic, and a TERROR on the wings and break (Murray seems to be a good shot blocker, and he is active in the passing lanes... Kawhi is Kawhi, and gay is very capable defensively)

[SPURt]

I tend to think it’s about competing against GS. Starting Green is more helpful trying to contain the monster 1-3 offensive players they have as opposed to moving to out score GS. With that in mind they should look to make sure the units mesh. I’m not saying that’s the best move but some logic behind it as of now. Gay may prove to be a good defender over time, though unlikely.

[Chinook]

Green's coming off a great preseason. Gay os inconsistent. Kawhi can play the two like KD can. That's to say he'd be capable due to pure talent, but it would hurt his strengths, make him guard harder assignments, and make SA clunky.

[Fireball]

Gay can become a starter later at the 4 ... I think he will be eased into the season by not playing too many minutes and coming off the bench

[sananspursfan21]

Green's coming off a great preseason. Gay os inconsistent. Kawhi can play the two like KD can. That's to say he'd be capable due to pure talent, but it would hurt his strengths, make him guard harder assignments, and make SA clunky.

Thats basically my thought. Maybe certain lineups or to throw off a defense or something but by and large it just makes the most sense to keep him at SF

[cutewizard]

:bobo

[Play Boban]

Kawhi can't play SG? It's not as if he can't guard them... I actually think our best starting 5 is with Gay at the 3...i don't like him coming off the bench... Thats like benching Dwyane Wade just to get scoring off the bench... Sometimes the best option IS to start ur best 5 players (golden state)

That team would be big, athletic, and a TERROR on the wings and break (Murray seems to be a good shot blocker, and he is active in the passing lanes... Kawhi is Kawhi, and gay is very capable defensively)
Wait, you think that Georgian scrub is one of Golden State's five best players? :lol

[duncan2k5]

I tend to think it’s about competing against GS. Starting Green is more helpful trying to contain the monster 1-3 offensive players they have as opposed to moving to out score GS. With that in mind they should look to make sure the units mesh. I’m not saying that’s the best move but some logic behind it as of now. Gay may prove to be a good defender over time, though unlikely.

I'd take Gays defense and length over Danny Green's any day... Who in the playoffs has not torched Green last year? Plus u are ignoring the fact that Danny causes a lot of bad offensive possessions because good teams force him to dribble which leads to disaster (and a fast break on the other end)... I swear Green is untouchable the way ppl talk about him on here... I even wonder if he has multiple accounts on here like KD does

[duncan2k5]

Wait, you think that Georgian scrub is one of Golden State's five best players? :lol

Who is a better center? Plz dont say the perennial Shaqting a fool winner

[duncan2k5]

Wait, you think that Georgian scrub is one of Golden State's five best players? :lol

Who is a better center? Plz dont say the perennial Shaqting a fool winner

[TheGreatYacht]

Green's coming off a great preseason. Gay os inconsistent. Kawhi can play the two like KD can. That's to say he'd be capable due to pure talent, but it would hurt his strengths, make him guard harder assignments, and make SA clunky.
Preseason doesn't count if you're Simmons, but when it's D-League, it earns you a starting spot

[SPURt]

I'd take Gays defense and length over Danny Green's any day... Who in the playoffs has not torched Green last year? Plus u are ignoring the fact that Danny causes a lot of bad offensive possessions because good teams force him to dribble which leads to disaster (and a fast break on the other end)... I swear Green is untouchable the way ppl talk about him on here... I even wonder if he has multiple accounts on here like KD does
In your starting lineup vs GS, who plays point and who guards who?

[Play Boban]

Who is a better center? Plz dont say the perennial Shaqting a fool winner
He's their best center, but I was under the impression you were saying he was one of their five best players, regardless of position.

[duncan2k5]

He's their best center, but I was under the impression you were saying he was one of their five best players, regardless of position.

No... I meant position - wise... Lol... That turd is their best by default

[duncan2k5]

In your starting lineup vs GS, who plays point and who guards who?

Murray of course... You're not gonna stop curry regardless... At least Murray will be able to take it to him on the other end...

Danny has been getting torched recently, so him guarding curry, plus providing nothing on the next end (Danny was one of the worst players vs every team we played in the playoffs, especially golden state) is a recipe to get blown out... For goodness sakes Simmons outplayed Danny vs golden state and Simmons was constantly thrashed on the forums... Gay and kawhi can handle klay and Durant... I'd even put gay on klay since kawhi pretty much owns Durant...

[SPURt]

Murray of course... You're not gonna stop curry regardless... At least Murray will be able to take it to him on the other end...

Danny has been getting torched recently, so him guarding curry, plus providing nothing on the next end (Danny was one of the worst players vs every team we played in the playoffs, especially golden state) is a recipe to get blown out... For goodness sakes Simmons outplayed Danny vs golden state and Simmons was constantly thrashed on the forums... Gay and kawhi can handle klay and Durant... I'd even put gay on klay since kawhi pretty much owns Durant...
I agree Murray based on potential has to be the one. The only guys that are locks as starters are Kawhi and LMA. I’m not sure if the debate around who should start should be Green vs Gay but Green vs the other big. Whose playing 4/5 in your starting lineup besides Aldridge? I think the three most talented Spurs on offense that aren’t ancient right now are Kawhi, Gay, and LMA. I certainly wouldn’t mind Gay as a starter.

The whole conversation is sobering in that the Spurs are rolling out so many unknowns. Can Murray capture any of his potential? Green had been frustrating since the last chip, can he finally have a rebound year? Is Gay’s achilles going to take any hope of him having a positive impact on defense? Is LMA going to play to his potential? What do the Spurs have in KA, Bertrans, and Forbes? Is there a center on the roster capable of playing in the NBA? Every one of those questions needs to have a positive answer for the Spurs to ring. Scary.

[duncan2k5]

I agree Murray based on potential has to be the one. The only guys that are locks as starters are Kawhi and LMA. I’m not sure if the debate around who should start should be Green vs Gay but Green vs the other big. Whose playing 4/5 in your starting lineup besides Aldridge? I think the three most talented Spurs on offense that aren’t ancient right now are Kawhi, Gay, and LMA. I certainly wouldn’t mind Gay as a starter.

The whole conversation is sobering in that the Spurs are rolling out so many unknowns. Can Murray capture any of his potential? Green had been frustrating since the last chip, can he finally have a rebound year? Is Gay’s achilles going to take any hope of him having a positive impact on defense? Is LMA going to play to his potential? What do the Spurs have in KA, Bertrans, and Forbes? Is there a center on the roster capable of playing in the NBA? Every one of those questions needs to have a positive answer for the Spurs to ring. Scary.

My starting lineup would be Murray, Kawhi, Gay, Aldridge, and either Joff or Davis at center... That is a great spacing team where Murray can go crazy with his drives (same with kawhi and gay) and that can move their feet defensively (Gasol is waaay too slow for today's NBA)...
We will have ppl who can take it off the boards and start the break (except Aldridge)... And Davis is pretty active defensively and jumps well to contest shots... I was very impressed with his defense on Zach Randolph in the playoffs... For a guy that was torching us, he barely scored on Davis, and you could tell it was frustrating him to the point where he was throwing up bad shots in hope of getting a call

[BillMc]

My starting lineup would be Murray, Kawhi, Gay, Aldridge, and either Joff or Davis at center... That is a great spacing team where Murray can go crazy with his drives (same with kawhi and gay) and that can move their feet defensively (Gasol is waaay too slow for today's NBA)...
We will have ppl who can take it off the boards and start the break (except Aldridge)... And Davis is pretty active defensively and jumps well to contest shots... I was very impressed with his defense on Zach Randolph in the playoffs... For a guy that was torching us, he barely scored on Davis, and you could tell it was frustrating him to the point where he was throwing up bad shots in hope of getting a call

I am probably the biggest Davis fan on this site, but he's had a weak preseason. He's going to have to show us more just to break into the rotation much less consider starting. In your scenario I'd start Joff. That said, the two things Gasol can still do (pass and shoot 3s) are more needed in the starting unit than the bench. He's got a nice big to big thing with LMA that reminds me of what Timmy did with LMA his first year. I don't want to get into all this junk about the deficiencies of Pau. But he's going to be a roation player, and if so, fits better as a starter I think than the bench.

[SAGirl]

I'd take Gays defense and length over Danny Green's any day... Who in the playoffs has not torched Green last year? Plus u are ignoring the fact that Danny causes a lot of bad offensive possessions because good teams force him to dribble which leads to disaster (and a fast break on the other end)... I swear Green is untouchable the way ppl talk about him on here... I even wonder if he has multiple accounts on here like KD does
For me, it's not about Green.
Rudy Gay is going to be the man in the bench in the playoffs. It has been problem the past couple of seasons that when Kawhi sits down, the bench can't stay afloat. Quite simply, Manu is inconsistent. His usage in the playoffs has gone way down and the last playoffs he was held scoreless for 5 straight games. He ended up in a high note individually but he's unreliable. Patty is a guy who is better off the ball looking for his shot, off other people or coming off screens. In the playoffs if he has a half way decent defender on him, he hasn't been efficient and his scoring has suffered. In the past couple of postseasons, Mills scoring output off the bench went kaput and whenever Kawhi sat down the bench couldn't score. So I think Rudy Gay was brought in to address that problem. If he's going to be THAT guy, he has to play with the bench to get chemistry. He will eventually likely play both with the bench and starting lineups and the 3 and 4, like he did in the dress rehearsal game against the Rockets.

[duncan2k5]

I am probably the biggest Davis fan on this site, but he's had a weak preseason. He's going to have to show us more just to break into the rotation much less consider starting. In your scenario I'd start Joff. That said, the two things Gasol can still do (pass and shoot 3s) are more needed in the starting unit than the bench. He's got a nice big to big thing with LMA that reminds me of what Timmy did with LMA his first year. I don't want to get into all this junk about the deficiencies of Pau. But he's going to be a roation player, and if so, fits better as a starter I think than the bench.

We need to stop focusing on what Gasol offers and ask ourselves if the negatives outweigh the positives... And I think it does... Gasol has been frustratingly bad on defense even before he was old... Now not only is it worse, but the NBA currently is no place for plodders

[Chinook]

Preseason doesn't count if you're Simmons, but when it's D-League, it earns you a starting spot

Green already has a starting spot. He didn't need to "earn it"; otherwise, Kawhi shouldn't start, because he hasn't been able to "earn" anything this pre-season.

[Chinook]

I'd take Gays defense and length over Danny Green's any day...

Gay has been a negative player most of his career in large part because he's a bad defensive player. I know your "eye-test" has already been called into question with your previous description of the Spurs' D, but statements like this don't help anyone take you seriously.

[TheGreatYacht]

Gay has been a negative player most of his career in large part because he's a bad defensive player. I know your "eye-test" has already been called into question with your previous description of the Spurs' D, but statements like this don't help anyone take you seriously.
According to what stat? Not questioning this, just legitimate curious.

[duncan2k5]

For me, it's not about Green.
Rudy Gay is going to be the man in the bench in the playoffs. It has been problem the past couple of seasons that when Kawhi sits down, the bench can't stay afloat. Quite simply, Manu is inconsistent. His usage in the playoffs has gone way down and the last playoffs he was held scoreless for 5 straight games. He ended up in a high note individually but he's unreliable. Patty is a guy who is better off the ball looking for his shot, off other people or coming off screens. In the playoffs if he has a half way decent defender on him, he hasn't been efficient and his scoring has suffered. In the past couple of postseasons, Mills scoring output off the bench went kaput and whenever Kawhi sat down the bench couldn't score. So I think Rudy Gay was brought in to address that problem. If he's going to be THAT guy, he has to play with the bench to get chemistry. He will eventually likely play both with the bench and starting lineups and the 3 and 4, like he did in the dress rehearsal game against the Rockets.


That's why I prefer Gasol coming off the bench... Not only doesn't he have to guard high caliber pick and tools, but he can post up and have the offense run through him... Rudy is too good to be on the bench... Even pop had to start ginobili at times in his prime during the playoffs because we needed our 5 best players starting

[duncan2k5]

For me, it's not about Green.
Rudy Gay is going to be the man in the bench in the playoffs. It has been problem the past couple of seasons that when Kawhi sits down, the bench can't stay afloat. Quite simply, Manu is inconsistent. His usage in the playoffs has gone way down and the last playoffs he was held scoreless for 5 straight games. He ended up in a high note individually but he's unreliable. Patty is a guy who is better off the ball looking for his shot, off other people or coming off screens. In the playoffs if he has a half way decent defender on him, he hasn't been efficient and his scoring has suffered. In the past couple of postseasons, Mills scoring output off the bench went kaput and whenever Kawhi sat down the bench couldn't score. So I think Rudy Gay was brought in to address that problem. If he's going to be THAT guy, he has to play with the bench to get chemistry. He will eventually likely play both with the bench and starting lineups and the 3 and 4, like he did in the dress rehearsal game against the Rockets.


That's why I prefer Gasol coming off the bench... Not only doesn't he have to guard high caliber pick and tools, but he can post up and have the offense run through him... Rudy is too good to be on the bench... Even pop had to start ginobili at times in his prime during the playoffs because we needed our 5 best players starting

[duncan2k5]

According to what stat? Not questioning this, just legitimate curious.

He got it out his ass... The last article I saw about Rudy gays defense had a stat called PPD... His was above average... Meaning players score less points when he guards them than they usually would otherwise... He had a better PPD at the end of last year than Jimmy butler...and that was on a bad kings team where he had no motivation to play defense

[duncan2k5]

At the end of the day, Rudy gay and kawhi on the wing is significantly better than Danny Green and kawhi on the wings when you factor in both sides of the ball

[Phenomanul]

Wait, you think that Georgian scrub is one of Golden State's five best players? :lol

He was their WCF MVP last season... :bang

[Chinook]

At the end of the day, Rudy gay and kawhi on the wing is significantly better than Danny Green and kawhi on the wings when you factor in both sides of the ball

Except that Gay isn't good defensively and that he and Kawhi would be GaY/DeRozan 2.0

[Chinook]

According to what stat? Not questioning this, just legitimate curious.

Net rating has him negative 10/13 seasons and negative overall. He was negative in BPM 3/10 years and overall just a 0.5 (to put into perspective, Green is a career 3.3 guy). Gay was only slightly positive two of the past four years in terms of RPM (with two decent years that were closer to Green's relatively bad year last year than anything else Danny has done). He was decently positive in terms of on/offs his first year in TOR and last year in SAC. The other years, he was bad and his team was worse. In Memphis, he kept swinging from pretty good to pretty bad (like 5,-7,6,-8). No idea what his net would be.

[RD2191]

Net rating has him negative 10/13 seasons and negative overall. He was negative in BPM 3/10 years and overall just a 0.5 (to put into perspective, Green is a career 3.3 guy). Gay was only slightly positive two of the past four years in terms of RPM (with two decent years that were closer to Green's relatively bad year last year than anything else Danny has done). He was decently positive in terms of on/offs his first year in TOR and last year in SAC. The other years, he was bad and his team was worse. In Memphis, he kept swinging from pretty good to pretty bad (like 5,-7,6,-8). No idea what his net would be.

Stopped reading at Green.

[duncan2k5]

Stopped reading at Green.

Me too

[Chinook]

Stopped reading at Green.

My bad:

Net rating has him negative 10/13 seasons and negative overall. He was negative in BPM 3/10 years and overall just a 0.5 (to put into perspective, Verde is a career 3.3 guy). Gay was only slightly positive two of the past four years in terms of RPM (with two decent years that were closer to Verde's relatively bad year last year than anything else Danny has done). He was decently positive in terms of on/offs his first year in TOR and last year in SAC. The other years, he was bad and his team was worse. In Memphis, he kept swinging from pretty good to pretty bad (like 5,-7,6,-8). No idea what his net would be.

[Chinook]

Me too

Yeah, when you try to say Gay is better than Green and then don't read all the evidence that says Green's better, it doesn't give you credibility either. Rob's just here so he doesn't get fined. You don't have the same excuse.

[LittleCriminal]

Would rather have Leonard at the point guard position...
Keeps Green at the 2
Start gay at the 3.

Gasol
La
Gay
Green
Leonard

That is a starting five.
I especially see this lineup working against okc.

[Chinook]

Would rather have Leonard at the point guard position...
Keeps Green at the 2
Start gay at the 3.

Gasol
La
Gay
Green
Leonard

That is a starting five.
I especially see this lineup working against okc.

Kawhi being the PG would tank the offense. They desperately need a PG to get other guys shots while Kawhi does his own thing. Him wearing that hat would hurt the offense and his own game. Then defensively, the Spurs would be way oversized, and teams like Portland would eat SA alive.

[duncan2k5]

Yeah, when you try to say Gay is better than Green and then don't read all the evidence that says Green's better, it doesn't give you credibility either. Rob's just here so he doesn't get fined. You don't have the same excuse.

You're the only person in the world that would take Danny Green over Rudy gay... Their talent level is night and day... I just showed u a stat that showed gays man to man defense being above average on a bad team... And u bring up Danny's defensive numbers and not taking into account Danny plays on a perennial top 3 defensive team for 20 years now... And on offense? No comparison whatsoever

[Chinook]

You're the only person in the world that would take Danny Green over Rudy gay... Their talent level is night and day... I just showed u a stat that showed gays man to man defense being above average on a bad team... And u bring up Danny's defensive numbers and not taking into account Danny plays on a perennial top 3 defensive team for 20 years now... And on offense? No comparison whatsoever

No, you didn't. You just said that such a stat exists without any proof. Who knows what Green PPD or whatever is?

And the Spurs haven't been a top-3 team for that long. They've fluctuated a lot over the years and only stabilized when Green and then Kawhi became starters.

[dabom]

No, you didn't. You just said that such a stat exists without any proof. Who knows what Green PPD or whatever is?

And the Spurs haven't been a top-3 team for that long. They've fluctuated a lot over the years and only stabilized when Kawhi became starters.

FTFY. :lmao

[Chinook]

FTFY. :lmao

Can you take off that last 's' please?

[RD2191]

My bad:

Net rating has him negative 10/13 seasons and negative overall. He was negative in BPM 3/10 years and overall just a 0.5 (to put into perspective, Verde is a career 3.3 guy). Gay was only slightly positive two of the past four years in terms of RPM (with two decent years that were closer to Verde's relatively bad year last year than anything else Danny has done). He was decently positive in terms of on/offs his first year in TOR and last year in SAC. The other years, he was bad and his team was worse. In Memphis, he kept swinging from pretty good to pretty bad (like 5,-7,6,-8). No idea what his net would be.

Gracias Senor Chinook.

[RD2191]

Yeah, when you try to say Gay is better than Green and then don't read all the evidence that says Green's better, it doesn't give you credibility either. Rob's just here so he doesn't get fined. You don't have the same excuse.

:hat

[duncan2k5]

No, you didn't. You just said that such a stat exists without any proof. Who knows what Green PPD or whatever is?

And the Spurs haven't been a top-3 team for that long. They've fluctuated a lot over the years and only stabilized when Green and then Kawhi became starters.

http://cowbellkingdom.com/what-are-rudy-gays-strengths-on-the-court/

[duncan2k5]

No, you didn't. You just said that such a stat exists without any proof. Who knows what Green PPD or whatever is?

And the Spurs haven't been a top-3 team for that long. They've fluctuated a lot over the years and only stabilized when Green and then Kawhi became starters.

What years weren't they top 3? For all championship years they were, including years in between... There aren't more than 3 seasons if that many where spurs weren't a top 3 defensive team in the Duncan era... Danny Green didn't make us great... We have always been great on defense

[SAGirl]

That's why I prefer Gasol coming off the bench... Not only doesn't he have to guard high caliber pick and tools, but he can post up and have the offense run through him... Rudy is too good to be on the bench... Even pop had to start ginobili at times in his prime during the playoffs because we needed our 5 best players starting
I am hopeful when the lineups need adjusting Pop will do so. He may even do so when Kawhi gets back to allow everyone expected to be a significant contributor to get chemistry with Kawhi. I hope for a bit of experiment mode Pop. I don't think things are as fixed as they would seem but Pau and Danny will both play. Pau has been really disappointing and we shall see what happens tbh.

[Chinook]

http://cowbellkingdom.com/what-are-rudy-gays-strengths-on-the-court/

I do appreciate that article, as much as I can from a place called "Cow Bell Kingdom". Anyway, that stat merely suggests Rudy is slightly positive (or that he was that particular year). But provided that it's the same stat as here: https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PLAYER_LAST_TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=1

You can see that it wasn't really impressive. To put it into perspective, Kyle had a -5.3 last year, which is apparently "Kawhi-level defense". Manu had a -7.1, which was an order of magnitude better than Kawhi. Danny did have a lower one in 2016, a -.2 to Gay's -.9 and in 2017 -2 to -2.1. Of course, Kyle had -5.3 and Kawhi just -.8.

I like the idea of this stat if taken over multiple seasons and put in its correct box. I don't like it as a measure of overall D, though, as forcing a guy to pass out fouling vs not fouling and getting turnovers is part of D too and completely ignored.

[Chinook]

What years weren't they top 3? For all championship years they were, including years in between... There aren't more than 3 seasons if that many where spurs weren't a top 3 defensive team in the Duncan era... Danny Green didn't make us great... We have always been great on defense

The team was 16th and eight in 2010 (regular PPG and PP100), 14th and 11th in 2011 and 16th and 11th in 2012.

[DJR210]

:lol so is this guy the new attention whore?

[duncan2k5]

The team was 16th and eight in 2010 (regular PPG and PP100), 14th and 11th in 2011 and 16th and 11th in 2012.

U just proved my point!!! ���������� I literally said there aren't more than 3 seasons where they weren't top 3...but no one will point that out on here though... They will still act as if somehow u won that point

[Chinook]

U just proved my point!!! ���������� I literally said there aren't more than 3 seasons where they weren't top 3...but no one will point that out on here though... They will still act as if somehow u won that point

I didn't look past that, because that proved the point that they WEREN'T always a great defensive team. They had a three-year stretch before bringing in the Medium Three where they were bad. If those years were scattered about, that would be one thing. But they all happened together.

[tonight...you]

:lol so is this guy the new attention whore?
What happened to that lunatic Ceds? He get got?

[DJR210]

What happened to that lunatic Ceds? He get got?

We can only hope

[Play Boban]

He was their WCF MVP last season... :bang
:cry