Dejounte Murray is a BIG Game Player

[dabom]

Let's get it boys.

:danceclub:danceclub:danceclub:danceclub

[YGWHI]

I remember his plays against Cavs on the road last regular season...He came up huge in the 4th tonight...He's showing flashes of a Fearless-Big Time player.

[bic50]

I remember his plays against Cavs on the road last regular season...He came up huge in the 4th tonight...He's showing flashes of a Fearless-Big Time player.
Hope pop sticks with him starting even after Parker returns. His confidence is high right now.

[Ron Swanson]

When Parker comes back, I think he'll be better off coming off the bench. He knows the offense and can help with the 2nd unit. His minutes need to be limited anyway. Let Murray keep the starting job.

[benefactor]

When Parker comes back, I think he'll be better off coming off the bench. He knows the offense and can help with the 2nd unit. His minutes need to be limited anyway. Let Murray keep the starting job.
:lol...get ready to be disappointed

[Chinook]

:lol...get ready to be disappointed

Pop did start George Hill over Parker in 2010 before Hill lost the job in the semis. I still expect Murray to cool down, but if he doesn't, we could see Pop "bringing Tony along slowly" for the whole season.

[dbestpro]

I remember, not too long ago, numerous well educated Spur fans saying Murray had no game, after watching the preseason. Raise your hand, if you still have the same opinion.

[YGWHI]

Hope pop sticks with him starting even after Parker returns. His confidence is high right now.

Can't wait until Pop opts for Parker's "incorporate knowledge" over Murray's defense and offense... :depressed

[Ron Swanson]

:lol...get ready to be disappointed

Goddamnit, I can dream!

[MaNu4Tres]

Saw this coming...Mills deal was unnecessary. And Spurs dont even have solid minutes for Forbes, BP3, or White WITH TP being out

[DAF86]

Saw this coming...Mills deal was unnecessary. And Spurs dont even have solid minutes for Forbes, BP3, or White WITH TP being out

Jordan Bell looking good for the Warriors too. We could have used a quality big for the rotation, tbh.

[LakerHater]

If he can protect the ball better & work with Chip, he can be!

[offset formation]

Im really concerned about how these contracts are gonna shake out next year. PATFO have some decisions to make and it appears Gasol's contract may come back to bite them more than expected due to the cap not increasing next year as much as was expected.

[peacemaker885]

PATFO showing that they aint stupid.

[SAGirl]

I remember, not too long ago, numerous well educated Spur fans saying Murray had no game, after watching the preseason. Raise your hand, if you still have the same opinion.
The wisdom if one isn’t trolling is celebrating when someone far exceeds a previous level of play. That’s development . Happy to cheer for a youngster growing up and hoping he can maintain that level so that he keeps rotation minutes when the roster is whole.

[SAGirl]

Saw this coming...Mills deal was unnecessary. And Spurs dont even have solid minutes for Forbes, BP3, or White WITH TP being out
I know you did. You must be disgusted with the Spurs summer contracts. I figured that’s why we had not seen you much. Or just life keeping busy?

[dabom]

Saw this coming...Mills deal was unnecessary. And Spurs dont even have solid minutes for Forbes, BP3, or White WITH TP being out

Saw what coming? A broken porker and we let go of our best PG? :lmao

You didn't see shit. :lol

[MaNu4Tres]

I know you did. You must be disgusted with the Spurs summer contracts. I figured that’s why we had not seen you much. Or just life keeping busy?

Getting older leads to more responsibilities. Busy to say the least.. use Twitter as my Spurs fix when I have the time..much easier to use w/ mobile ..easier to filter the good conversations

[dabom]

I hope my dude Brazil got that sig ready for this summer. :lol

[Snaq O'Meal]

PATFO showing that they aint stupid.

Paying almost $100 million in total to Patty and Pau is pretty fucking stupid tbh.

[BatManu20]

922643925235625985

[Brazil]

I hope my dude Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466) got that sig ready for this summer. :lol

:lol my nigg' Parker is getting closer to return... you know how it will end up

[TD 21]

Pop did start George Hill over Parker in 2010 before Hill lost the job in the semis. I still expect Murray to cool down, but if he doesn't, we could see Pop "bringing Tony along slowly" for the whole season.

The difference then was, Ginobili was starting and they didn't really have a third PG, let alone someone the caliber of Mills.

That's why Parker will eventually reclaim the starting job: because he has to for the rotation to make sense.

[Chinook]

The difference then was, Ginobili was starting and they didn't really have a third PG, let alone someone the caliber of Mills.

That's why Parker will eventually reclaim the starting job: because he has to for the rotation to make sense.

I'm firmly of the belief that Pop was going to start two PGs this season had Paul come over. I don't think he has any reservations about having two come off the bench. It's not really even a big deal if they do.

[duncan2k5]

The difference then was, Ginobili was starting and they didn't really have a third PG, let alone someone the caliber of Mills.

That's why Parker will eventually reclaim the starting job: because he has to for the rotation to make sense.

he wont start...because we will be worse

[DAF86]

I'm firmly of the belief that Pop was going to start two PGs this season had Paul come over. I don't think he has any reservations about having two come off the bench. It's not really even a big deal if they do.

Playing two midgets on today's NBA.:lol

Yeah, that wouldn't get royally fucked by the Warriors and pretty much every other decent team on the league.

[Chinook]

Playing two midgets on today's NBA.:lol

Yeah, that wouldn't get royally fucked by the Warriors and pretty much every other decent team on the league.

I don't get this. The league is smaller than ever. It's fine not to like it (I wouldn't have liked it either), but to act like it would be an archaic approach is just weird.

[DAF86]

I don't get this. The league is smaller than ever. It's fine not to like it (I wouldn't have liked it either), but to act like it would be an archaic approach is just weird.

The league is smarter than ever at exploting weak defensive links. Teams nowadays have several resources to exploit bad defenders and/or midgets.

[Stabula]

If Parker is still the player he was in the playoffs he can still be big for this team. The question is what are we going to do with Fatty Mills? He makes too much money these days to just towel wave.

[Stabula]

I don't get this. The league is smaller than ever. It's fine not to like it (I wouldn't have liked it either), but to act like it would be an archaic approach is just weird.

[MaNu4Tres]

If Parker is still the player he was in the playoffs he can still be big for this team. The question is what are we going to do with Fatty Mills? He makes too much money these days to just towel wave.

Parker hasnt been the player he was in the playoffs in 3-4 years. That flash in the pan performance he had in the playoffs, was likely just a flash in a pan. Its silly to me how fans think that performance is sustainable and what we should expect from him at 35 yrs old.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't get this. The league is smaller than ever. It's fine not to like it (I wouldn't have liked it either), but to act like it would be an archaic approach is just weird.

Yes, the league is going smaller/ more versatile but theres context. The league is actually getting longer in the back court, and smaller/ more versatile in the front court -- especially at the 4.

Teams are not playing two small PGs together. If they do, its a small wrinkle based on matchups that doesnt happen very often.

[duncan2k5]

If Parker is still the player he was in the playoffs he can still be big for this team. The question is what are we going to do with Fatty Mills? He makes too much money these days to just towel wave.

He won't be

[duncan2k5]

Yes, the league is going smaller/ more versatile but theres context. The league is actually getting longer in the back court, and smaller/ more versatile in the front court -- especially at the 4.

Teams are not playing two small PGs together. If they do, its a small wrinkle based on matchups that doesnt happen very often.

I was about to say this... League is getting smaller in the frontcourt only...

[Chinook]

Yes, the league is going smaller/ more versatile but theres context. The league is actually getting longer in the back court, and smaller/ more versatile in the front court -- especially at the 4.

Teams are not playing two small PGs together. If they do, its a small wrinkle based on matchups that doesnt happen very often.

From the games last night and Monday night, I counted eight teams that started two guards 6-4 (rounded up and plus the in that NBA players get, of course) and under, a multiple others where the starting two was like a 6-5 shooter who isn't going to body smaller guards for scores either. This ignores teams where their sixth man is a combo-guard with PG size like Houston, Boston and New Orleans. Then you have teams like Toronto and Phoenix with will run three PG lineups for long stretches.

And I know, 6-3 folks are giants compared to Parker's 6-2. Regardless, with the move to small-ball, most of the larger wings have become at least occasional power-forwards, and the guys who take there place are often not bigger than the wings of old. Legit 6-4 guys like Brandon Paul are playing the three like it's nothing now. Maybe getting longer is the gold standard, but it's not the reality.

[TD 21]

I'm firmly of the belief that Pop was going to start two PGs this season had Paul come over. I don't think he has any reservations about having two come off the bench. It's not really even a big deal if they do.

Pop has always preferred to start traditional, both in terms of bigs and wings. Besides, a Parker-Paul back court is just not tenable on a full time basis, especially against starters.

Off the bench, it's not that Parker and Mills are PG's, it's that physically they're not compatible. Murray can work fine next to Mills and if he continues to hone his spot up 3-point shooting, maybe even Parker.



he wont start...because we will be worse

Just like Gasol supposedly wasn't going to start. Never underestimate how much politics factor into decision making in professional sports.

[tmtcsc]

Murray has Summer game. Summer good and Summer bad. That's just the way its going to be until he develops a jump shot. Not 15 foot, one handed floaters.

[Play Boban]

:lol 0 :lol

[SAGirl]

He made some really nice passes and played well in other areas, he made reads in the PnR that were very vet like.. but yes, he needs a jumper.

[skulls138]

Well how the mighty have fallen. :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[dabom]

Are we really going to do this guys? :lol

[John B]

As long as the defense and rebounding are there, he is making good passes, scoring is a bonus

[TheGreatYacht]

Damn might've been given the kiss of death with this thread....

First Bertans, then Pitty Mills....

https://media.tenor.com/images/2fe621ff2cb6c7fc57f5a0f840a45114/tenor.gif

Hope I'm wrong

[DAF86]

He didn't score tonight, but I saw something that further fed my enthusiasm: his pick and roll game. He was running it like a vet out there. Specially at the beginning of the game.

But yes, he needs to work on that 15/17 foot Tony Parker jumper. He needs to come out off that screen with a decisive mindset. Thinking "now I'm going to set my feet, shoot this 17 footer and make it".

[dabom]

He didn't sere tonight, but I saw soemthing that further fed my enthusiasm: his pick and roll game. He was running it like a vet out there. Specially at the beginning of the game.

But yes, he needs to work on that 15/17 foot Tony Parker jumper. He needs to come out off that screen with a decisive mindset. Thinking "now I'm going to set my feet, shoot this 17 footer and make it".

Lot of parts to his game that need improvement. Rome wasn't built in one day. He needs to improve his decision making on the pnr and straight off the dribble. His rebounding is off the charts. His defense is good right now. Could be better with more experience. Moving him away from the basket right now would not be a good thing.

[spursistan]

Well that was fun while it lasted.. Murray still in feast or famine mode and that's not going to cut it..In particular, his lack shooting is beginning to loom large..

[TheGreatYacht]

Kiss of death OP :lol

Working his magic as per usual

[K...]

Op is right, this isn't a big game. Good call dabom. Also fuck Patty "I only shoot good when manu sets me up" mills

[daslicer]

The last two games he has been pretty bad.

[Mr. Body]

Lol, Murray is better than Parker was at the same age. Lol.

[ceds]

:lol 0 :lol

To 100 real quick

[duncan2k5]

Well that was fun while it lasted.. Murray still in feast or famine mode and that's not going to cut it..In particular, his lack shooting is beginning to loom large..

Shooting is overrated... The current MVP frontrunner can't shoot a lick

[duncan2k5]

Lol, Murray is better than Parker was at the same age. Lol.

He is more talented... More talented doesn't mean better... KG has more talent than Duncan, but Duncan is better... Dirk has more talent than Shaq, but Shaq is better... Murray has more talent than a 21 year old Parker (who couldn't shoot)... But Parker was better

[SuperCam]

thread backfire :lmao

[Chinook]

He is more talented... More talented doesn't mean better... KG has more talent than Duncan, but Duncan is better... Dirk has more talent than Shaq, but Shaq is better... Murray has more talent than a 21 year old Parker (who couldn't shoot)... But Parker was better

And you blame me for people ignoring your takes...

[Ice009]

Shooting is overrated... The current MVP frontrunner can't shoot a lick

shooting does matter for PGs. If you can't shoot for shit as a PG, you're not going to be that good. Right now, even Russell Westbrook is like Larry Bird compared to Deounte when it comes to shooting the ball.

[coachmac87]

Murray won't take his game to next level until he can develop a jump shot AND be confident in doing so...


I've stated this at lease 50 11 times

[coachmac87]

Lol, Murray is better than Parker was at the same age. Lol.

Not true....period.

[Chinook]

Not true....period.

Pretty sure you and MrB are on the same side of this one, Coach.

[coachmac87]

Pretty sure you and MrB are on the same side of this one, Coach.

?? Was he being sarcastic and I missed it?? Lol

[tholdren]

He is more talented... More talented doesn't mean better... KG has more talent than Duncan, but Duncan is better... Dirk has more talent than Shaq, but Shaq is better... Murray has more talent than a 21 year old Parker (who couldn't shoot)... But Parker was better

Hzhahahahahahaha

[Chinook]

?? Was he being sarcastic and I missed it?? Lol

Yes, he's laughing at D2K5's claim about Murray being better than Parker at 21.

[cd98]

He is more talented... More talented doesn't mean better... KG has more talent than Duncan, but Duncan is better... Dirk has more talent than Shaq, but Shaq is better... Murray has more talent than a 21 year old Parker (who couldn't shoot)... But Parker was better

Say what? Garnet more talented than Duncan? Garnet didn’t have near as many moves as Duncan. Murray is a long player who can’t dribble or shoot. He is an eh passer and he gets blocked at the rim or makes bad decisions making him a below average finisher.

Parker came into the league with solid ball handling and elite finishing at the rim. He took about 4 years to get a jumper, but he turned into a great midrange shooter and his finishing in the paint ranks with the all time best guards. Parker had a ton of talent but also worked himself into a superstar.

Murray has a long way to go to fill those shoes and likely will never get seasons as good as Parker’s peak seasons.

[horsielove]

nice jinx thread, faggot.

[Ice009]

cd98, I'd say TP's ball handling was elite or close to it. He didn't do the fancy dribbling like Kyrie and Curry do now, but I always thought back then he had fantastic ball handling skills. I remember a game, I think it was against Dallas, where he was getting knocked around physically on one play while still keeping the dribble alive an inch from the ground without losing his handle on the ball. I always thought he was a great ball handler, not flashy, but still very good.

For some reason, I think his ball handling has slipped a bit these past few years. I don't know why as I didn't think ball handling is a skill that erodes over time. Before these past few seasons, I thought he was as good as anyone. Very solid ball handler with the game on the line too.

[LakerHater]

2 bad games!

[daslicer]

cd98, I'd say TP's ball handling was elite or close to it. He didn't do the fancy dribbling like Kyrie and Curry do now, but I always thought back then he had fantastic ball handling skills. I remember a game, I think it was against Dallas, where he was getting knocked around physically on one play while still keeping the dribble an inch from the ground without losing his handle on the ball. I always thought he was a great ball handler, not fancy, but still very good.

For some reason, I think his ball handling has slipped a bit these past few years. I don't know why as I didn't think ball handling is a skill that erodes over time. Before these past few seasons, I thought he was as good as anyone. Very solid ball handler with the game on the line too.

The league allows more traveling today than it did back then. I feel half of the time Curry and Kyrie are allowed to palm the ball and get away with it. Parker's ball handling on the other hand was a hundred percent legit. If Parker came out today it would be entertaining to see what he could do ball handling wise since traveling is hardly called on PG's.

[Ice009]

The league allows more traveling today than it did back then. I feel half of the time Curry and Kyrie are allowed to palm the ball and get away with it. Parker's ball handling on the other hand was a hundred percent legit. If Parker came out today it would be entertaining to see what he could do ball handling wise since traveling is hardly called on PG's.

True. Would you also say that they're able to carry it more in today's game? I feel like they carry more too. I guess that's the same as palming.

Last season in the finals I remember Curry putting a spectacular move on Lebron, but when I saw the replay it was a blatant carry or double dribble I think. Does anyone remember that play? It made Lebron look silly in real time, but after seeing the replay it wasn't a legal play, yet I don't even recall the commentators saying anything about it.


Yep, found it. It was a blatant double dribble.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5mCwBwUmXQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMYG-VtbOqQ

[daslicer]

True. Would you also say that they're able to carry it more in today's game? I feel like they carry more too. I guess that's the same as palming.

Last season in the finals I remember Curry putting a spectacular move on Lebron, but when I saw the replay it was a blatant carry or double dribble I think. Does anyone remember that play? It made Lebron look silly in real time, but after seeing the replay it wasn't a legal play, yet I don't even recall the commentators saying anything about it.


Yep, found it. It was a blatant double dribble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5mCwBwUmXQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMYG-VtbOqQ

Palming and carrying is the same thing but yeah the league allows PG's to carry today without calling traveling. Parker would be invincible if he was allowed to carry back in the day. He would get a layup on every possession.

[Budkin]

:lmao

[LakerHater]

https://images2.imgbox.com/4b/ff/ZLmRZOqa_o.gif

[duncan2k5]

With the way you ppl rate the old Tony Parker, how did we ever lose?

[duncan2k5]

And if u domt think garnett was more skilled than Duncan, you are being biases... Even Odom was more skilled... They could shoot jumpers better, they were better ball handlers, better passers... But Duncan was better overall... By FAR... talent is different from greatness... Haven't u ever heard scouts and analysts say a player has the talent to be great? Murray is more talented at the same age... Parker was just better... So in other words, Murray has a higher ceiling

[Poolboy5623]

Palming and carrying is the same thing but yeah the league allows PG's to carry today without calling traveling. Parker would be invincible if he was allowed to carry back in the day. He would get a layup on every possession.

Tonys little crossover on the fast break(which was often), involved a carry and was rarely called. They didn’t start calling it until later in his career. I’m not sure how anyone would miss that, if they were watching the games.

[r0drig0lac]

He is more talented... More talented doesn't mean better... KG has more talent than Duncan, but Duncan is better... Dirk has more talent than Shaq, but Shaq is better... Murray has more talent than a 21 year old Parker (who couldn't shoot)... But Parker was better
jesus

[tim_duncan_fan]

https://images2.imgbox.com/4b/ff/ZLmRZOqa_o.gif

This alone tells me Dejounte is gonna be alright.

[tholdren]

The league allows more traveling today than it did back then. I feel half of the time Curry and Kyrie are allowed to palm the ball and get away with it. Parker's ball handling on the other hand was a hundred percent legit. If Parker came out today it would be entertaining to see what he could do ball handling wise since traveling is hardly called on PG's.

There is not a game that is played without 100 non called traveling. It happens every play

[BatManu20]

This was extremely predictable.

[TD 21]

shooting does matter for PGs. If you can't shoot for shit as a PG, you're not going to be that good. Right now, even Russell Westbrook is like Larry Bird compared to Deounte when it comes to shooting the ball.

Yeah, Antetokounmpo and Simmons aren't comparables. They may be PG's on offense, but the former is a combo forward defensively (with the physical tools of a C) and the latter is a PF defensively. They're too big and strong for most perimeter players and too quick for most bigs.

It's not the fact that Murray is a sub par shooter that's concerning, it's the fact that he's a non one altogether. He tries to turn damn near every shot into a floater. Instead of working relentlessly on it, Spurs' antiquated approach seems to be focus on other things and figure that out later, when it's the most important attribute, especially given his aforementioned starting point.

They need to stop this bizarre aversion to the 3 and get with the times. This team is actually loaded with depth of shooting, it's just not a point of emphasis and they don't play a rotation that lends itself to it.

[tholdren]

This was extremely predictable.

Taveling or murray not being a big game player?

[dabom]

Taveling or murray not being a big game player?

It wasn't a BIG game. :lol

[tholdren]

It wasn't a BIG game. :lol

How about the playoff game where he couldnt dribble to halfcourt?

[dabom]

How about the playoff game where he couldnt dribble to halfcourt?

IF you admit Murray was bad, Patty had to be GREAT huh? :lol

[tholdren]

IF you admit Murray was bad, Patty had to be GREAT huh? :lol

A pg who is in the *cough* most talented league in the world who cant dribble to half court... has nothing to do w patty. Just murray. A pg who has so limited fundamentals he cant initiate the offense... wtf

[ECOV]

How about the playoff game where he couldnt dribble to halfcourt?

lmao bring up last year ,wtf???

[tholdren]

lmao bring up last year ,wtf???

I thought his shitty last game was too soon

[ECOV]

I thought his shitty last game was too soon
nah the sooner, the better.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Dejounte needs to be quicker moving with the ball in his hands. Can that be fixed?

[cjw]

He's been atrocious since that first few game stretch. Hope he didn't let it get to his head.

[Mr. Body]

He's been atrocious since that first few game stretch. Hope he didn't let it get to his head.

He just has a good game or two out of every ten. He just started out that way this season and is returning to the mean.

[skulls138]

Oh goddamn this is fun!!! :lmao

[tholdren]

Shit pgs doin what streetballin pgs do.

[UZER]

His struggling has a Pop feel to it.

Guy starts off playing well doing what he does. Pop gets in his ear because it's not necessarily how he "wants" him to play. Player starts struggling.

[tholdren]

Shit pgs doin what streetballin pgs do.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Murray needs to develop a jump shot.

[Ice009]

So, me talking about his jump shot being a big problem since last season ended, anyone fucking agree with me now?

Some of you all need to learn how to shoot the ball before you go spouting off starting these type of threads. Just because you've got a good shooting coach, doesn't mean a shit shooter can become a good one. You have to have some sort of feel for shooting the ball, or at least some proclivity towards making shots (even if you have a bad form), otherwise, this could be a long process teaching this kid how to shoot from from the beginning. It looks like this is going to be a long process for Murray. He can still work his ass off and maybe get there, but right now, he looks like he's a long way off.

I really don't know where he's at, because all I've seen is mostly horrendous floaters he tries from weird spots on the floor. He might not be as bad as I'm thinking, but I just having seen much of a decent sample size at all of him taking jump shots.

[SAGirl]

So, me talking about his jump shot being a big problem since last season ended, anyone fucking agree with me now?

Some of you all need to learn how to shoot the ball before you go spouting off starting these type of threads. Just because you've got a good shooting coach, doesn't mean a shit shooter can become a good one. You have to have some sort of feel for shooting the ball, or at least some proclivity towards making shots (even if you have a bad form), otherwise, this could be a long process teaching this kid how to shoot from from the beginning. It looks like this is going to be a long process for Murray. He can still work his ass off and maybe get there, but right now, he looks like he's a long way off.

I really don't know where he's at, because all I've seen is mostly horrendous floaters he tries from weird spots on the floor. He might not be as bad as I'm thinking, but I just having seen much of a decent sample size at all of him taking jump shots.
There was someone who I remember making the point that he doesn't have good eye for the basket when it comes to jump-shooting. It might have been you.
There was also a poster who had attended a game and saw him shoot bricks all shootaround, and mentioned how concerning it was that he couldn't shoot at all (at the time, he wasn't getting playing time, so we didn't know that much about him and he had just a couple of games in which he shot the ball well, so his observation was interesting enough that I remember it).

Anyways, you have a point. He will not be starting level PG, not really until he can make some jumpshots. He doesn't have to be an ace shooter, but at least he has to attempt and make some jumpshots in game situations now and then.

[duncan2k5]

Not worried about DJ, tbh...every young player has growing pains...its not as if young parker never had a bad stretch (for goodness sakes some of his bad stretches came in the playoffs) and its not as if we havent lost games vs trash teams in the past with our big 3...murray will sort himself out...he just needs to focus on defense...and on offense, take it into the body of the defenderto shield them off...

[Capt Bringdown]

Nothing to see here. He's playing his way into a 50-mil contract.

[SAGirl]

An observation. I'd have Deounte stop looking for offensive boards and camping the paint and focusing on getting back in transition. His first few games were an anomaly. He is a good rebounder for a guard, but searching for boards at the expense of transition defense is doing a disservice to the Spurs. I hope Pop changes that scheme...

[bklynspursfan]

His struggling has a Pop feel to it.

Guy starts off playing well doing what he does. Pop gets in his ear because it's not necessarily how he "wants" him to play. Player starts struggling.

When exactly did that happen? Cause it just seems Murray is still very much learning the ebb and flow of the game and struggling to pick his spots when the opposition packs the paint.

[MultiTroll]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by UZER (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9173398#post9173398) His struggling has a Pop feel to it.

Guy starts off playing well doing what he does. Pop gets in his ear because it's not necessarily how he "wants" him to play. Player starts struggling.



When exactly did that happen? Cause it just seems Murray is still very much learning the ebb and flow of the game and struggling to pick his spots when the opposition packs the paint.
After all the "I want you to be like Chrissy Paul" fertilizer.

[bklynspursfan]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by UZER (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9173398#post9173398) His struggling has a Pop feel to it.

Guy starts off playing well doing what he does. Pop gets in his ear because it's not necessarily how he "wants" him to play. Player starts struggling.



After all the "I want you to be like Chrissy Paul" fertilizer.

Pretty sure he just said he wanted him to study Chris Paul. Just in terms of managing the game out there, being under control, etc... Kawhi has studied several different guys per Pop as well (Bowen/Barkley/Jordan, etc..), it's only made him better.

IMO, people need to stop blaming Murray's issues on other guys, and realize he's still got some maturing/developing to do.

[SAGirl]

IMO, people need to stop blaming Murray's issues on other guys, and realize he's still got some maturing/developing to do.
Truth right here.

[MultiTroll]

Pretty sure he just said he wanted him to study Chris Paul. Just in terms of managing the game out there, being under control, etc... Kawhi has studied several different guys per Pop as well (Bowen/Barkley/Jordan, etc..), it's only made him better.

IMO, people need to stop blaming Murray's issues on other guys, and realize he's still got some maturing/developing to do.
Chrissy Paul is a terrible example of playing style for Murrays natural talents imo.
Control freak vs free wheeling. Btw how has Chissys Control Freaky worked out? Ya a bunch of regular season stat padding. Does not help the TEAM.

I do agree this should not be all put on Pop and yes Murray has plenty of development to go.

[duncan2k5]

Young Tony Parker is the best player for Murray to study, imo...

[spursistan]

Very underwhelming, I must say. The sample size is getting larger and it is only cementing the fact that he hasn't graduated beyond a third string guard (Patty, Austin Toros Parker, Forbes, BP3 have all earned minutes at his expense in the last couple of weeks)..:depressed


I don't think Kawhi coming back will change anything regarding his consistent lack of "game feel" with his poor dribbling fundamentals or something remotely resembling a mechanically-sound stroke/"jump shot"..

It is only about patience with the kid right now..

[dabom]

1/8 of the season in...


Time to shut him down...

[BatManu20]

Very underwhelming, I must say. The sample is getting larger and it is only cementing the fact that he hasn't graduated beyond a third string guard (Patty, Austin Toros Parker, Forbes, BP3 have all earned minutes at his expense in the last couple of weeks)..:depressed


I don't think Kawhi coming back will change anything regarding his consistent lack of "game feel" with his poor dribbling fundamentals or something remotely resembling a mechanically-sound stroke/"jump shot"..

It is only about patience with the kid right now..

Patty is 29.. Parker is 35... Dejounte turned 21 less then 6 weeks ago. How many 20-21 year old PG's you see starring in today's league? Give him some time. He's already a better defender than the other 2 combined.

[spursistan]

Patty is 29.. Parker is 35... Dejounte turned 21 less then 6 weeks ago. How many 20-21 year old PG's you see starring in today's league? Give him some time. He's already a better defender than the other 2 combined.
You read "3rd string guard" in my post, right? :rolleyes

[dabom]

Porker or forbes better than Murray. :lmao

[Mr. Body]

He looks basically the same as last year.

[spursistan]

He looks basically the same as last year.
To be fair, he added the Dabom curse to that :lol...

[tholdren]

Patty is 29.. Parker is 35... Dejounte turned 21 less then 6 weeks ago. How many 20-21 year old PG's you see starring in today's league? Give him some time. He's already a better defender than the other 2 combined.

Dwe are watching a league where dangleo russell is a superstar... this is awful

[BatManu20]

Dwe are watching a league where dangleo russell is a superstar... this is awful


A) D'Angelo is far from a "Superstar"
B) He was the 2nd overall pick
C) He's only played for horrible teams with little to no expectations. Easier to put up #'s that way. (He's averaging 18 FGA a game to avg 21 pts)
D) He's literally one of the worst defenders in the league

[sasaint]

An observation. I'd have Deounte stop looking for offensive boards and camping the paint and focusing on getting back in transition. His first few games were an anomaly. He is a good rebounder for a guard, but searching for boards at the expense of transition defense is doing a disservice to the Spurs. I hope Pop changes that scheme...

If Forbes, BP3 and/or White can develop, I'd think about having Murray concentrate on corner threes and turn him into a wing. Continue adding strength, continue to get O-boards, and develop a corner three and he might be an excellent wing. I think some poster already suggested that. Murray is an enigma - very good basketball athlete, but marginal basketball player. Bryn and BP3 should definitely put pressure on Dijon. But I kind of doubt that Pop would drop him as a PG, however.

[SAGirl]

If Forbes, BP3 and/or White can develop, I'd think about having Murray concentrate on corner threes and turn him into a wing. Continue adding strength, continue to get O-boards, and develop a corner three and he might be an excellent wing. I think some poster already suggested that. Murray is an enigma - very good basketball athlete, but marginal basketball player. Bryn and BP3 should definitely put pressure on Dijon. But I kind of doubt that Pop would drop him as a PG, however.
What has been specially revealing to me is that White was a SG the few minutes I saw him in the gleague and when he’s played next to Dijon, DJ is always the PG and White is off the ball. I started noticing this bc Chinook asked about White. There’s a chance Pop does see him as the PG of the future and they are willing to e patient wth him due to his youth, his allege work ethic and how willing he is to learn.

[sasaint]

What has been specially revealing to me is that White was a SG the few minutes I saw him in the gleague and when he’s played next to Dijon, DJ is always the PG and White is off the ball. I started noticing this bc Chinook asked about White. There’s a chance Pop does see him as the PG of the future and they are willing to e patient wth him due to his youth, his allege work ethic and how willing he is to learn.

I always appreciate your scouting of the G-League and sharing your observations. Adds a lot to the discussion.

So, thanks for your observations about the Dijon/White combo. After watching Dijon for over a year now, I have really waffled in my opinion. If he was going to be the PG of the future, I was all for just giving him the keys and the tough love to force feed him last year. But with some new pieces on the team and a year to observe him, my current attitude is this: Dijon's best skill may be rebounding, so why force him into a fairly unnatural position as a PG that would devalue one of best innate skills?

[duncan2k5]

U guys are tripping... He is clearly a point guard... Just clearly not fully developed... He has elite dribbling skills, just needs better control... But he gets to the rim at will, and makes some nice reads... Let's stop trying to make him Chris Paul... He is more in the lane of a Parker... Parker is the a great passer, he just doesn't take risks with his passes,and he has been here FOREVER, so he knows the offense... DJ is in his second year and hasn't played a full season after one year in college... He will get it... Our impatience has caused us to let go players that end up being pretty good when other teams give them freedom... We can afford that right now with Parker being done

[Poolboy5623]

Its pretty easy to see where Tony's minutes are going to come from when he gets back...

[cd98]

Spurs need to keep starting Mills and bringing Murray off the bench. Murray is still a turnover machine and allows other team's bigs to have a block party, but he plays much better off the bench and in spurts, he can be effective until he develops enough to cut his turnovers and improve his jump shot and finishing ability.

[rjv]

mills will start at PG when parker returns and murray and parker will likely share those minutes initially as TP works his way back into shape. if murray continues to improve or show something off the bench then i think he will secure a spot in the rotation. if not...

[BackHome]

Murray will have his ups and downs but I have been happy with his progression from last year to this year. His handles are better and he is finishing much better with contact and is able to create his own shot of the dribble. He still has a lot to work on but as long as he is getting better each year I am happy as he was always a 3 year work in progress draft pick

[duncan2k5]

Spurs need to keep starting Mills and bringing Murray off the bench. Murray is still a turnover machine and allows other team's bigs to have a block party, but he plays much better off the bench and in spurts, he can be effective until he develops enough to cut his turnovers and improve his jump shot and finishing ability.

He averages 2.5 or so turnovers a game... U guys make it seem like he is at Kobe levels of turning the ball over... Lol... We are a better team with him starting and growing... Do u think Tony Parker would have gotten as good so fast if he wasn't starting and playing with the best players on the team? When u play with good players, it takes pressure off of you and allows your game to grow...

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He averages 2.5 or so turnovers a game... U guys make it seem like he is at Kobe levels of turning the ball over... Lol...

Kobe's levels of turning the ball over are 3.0 per 36 for his career. Murray's at 3.2 per 36 this season, after 4.2 last season. Moreover, Kobe's TOV% for his career is 11.6, while Murray's is 20.9. Clearly Murray needs to get much better to reach Kobe's levels.

[pookenstein]

I think 50 Mills will start to ease TP back into the Rotation and possibly keep starting if his upwards trend from the last few games with the other Starters goes on.

[duncan2k5]

Kobe's levels of turning the ball over are 3.0 per 36 for his career. Murray's at 3.2 per 36 this season, after 4.2 last season. Moreover, Kobe's TOV% for his career is 11.6, while Murray's is 20.9. Clearly Murray needs to get much better to reach Kobe's levels.

Much better? 3.2 to 3.0? Lol... I guess u win that one bro... Smh

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Much better? 3.2 to 3.0? Lol... I guess u win that one bro... Smh

Ok better.

[duncan2k5]

Ok better.

Fake news... Basketball reference has Dejounte's at 4.4, and Kobe's worst season at 9...so you're wrong... But whatever

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Fake news... Basketball reference has Dejounte's at 4.4, and Kobe's worst season at 9...so you're wrong... But whatever

What's this? Per 100 possessions or TOV% or per 36? Either way not sure what's wrong.

Edit: Are you comparing to Kobe's 6 game season? :lmao

[duncan2k5]

Thats per 100 posessions...so youre wrong

[duncan2k5]

And yea...murray played pretty much the same amount if games too

[rastaspur]

Duncan 2k5 is crushing on murray big time. Coming across as thirsty as John Goodman after he just ran the boston marathon.

[Chinook]

And yea...murray played pretty much the same amount if games too

You can't be serious with this retort...

[duncan2k5]

You can't be serious with this retort...

I am... If he is criticizing me for mentioning a 6 game season for Kobe, why can't I criticize for the Murray hate just several games into the season too?

[Chinook]

I am... If he is criticizing me for mentioning a 6 game season for Kobe, why can't I criticize for the Murray hate just several games into the season too?

Because we already know that six-game sample doesn't represent Kobe's career. So far, this sample is all we have of Murray. You might as well have purposefully looked for a bad six-game stretch from Kobe to make your argument.

[dabom]

If we can't use a small sample size from kobe, we can't use this sample size for DM.

[Chinook]

If we can't use a small sample size from kobe, we can't use this sample size for DM.

You can't use an artificially small sample size for Kobe because we KNOW it's wrong. I don't believe Murray's sample is too small, but even if it were, it's not the same as Kobe's because there isn't any statistical reason to believe the numbers are wrong yet.

[duncan2k5]

You can't use an artificially small sample size for Kobe because we KNOW it's wrong. I don't believe Murray's sample is too small, but even if it were, it's not the same as Kobe's because there isn't any statistical reason to believe the numbers are wrong yet.

What's the difference? The season just started... Murray played a similar amount of games to Kobe... So if you can't judge Kobe on a six game sample, you can't judge Murray on a six game sample... And FYI... Kobe has ALWAYS turned the all over at a high rate

[Chinook]

What's the difference? The season just started... Murray played a similar amount of games to Kobe... So if you can't judge Kobe on a six game sample, you can't judge Murray on a six game sample... And FYI... Kobe has ALWAYS turned the all over at a high rate

This is not hard.

You can't judge Kobe by that six-game sample, because he had a much large sample to show that stretch was not informative. Murray's season is a) large enough of a sample and b) the only sample we have to work with.

[tholdren]

Duncan 2k5 is crushing on murray big time. Coming across as thirsty as John Goodman after he just ran the boston marathon.

Its sa girls alt

[Chinook]

I actually liked what Murray did during minutes that counted. The Spurs switched readily, and he didn't look overwhelmed against Johnson, who's a legit SF. I think he's shaky at best on O right now. But his flashes on D remain intriguing.

[tholdren]

I actually liked what Murray did during minutes that counted. The Spurs switched readily, and he didn't look overwhelmed against Johnson, who's a legit SF. I think he's shaky at best on O right now. But his flashes on D remain intriguing.

Hes a shitty passer

[8FOR!3]

I think Murray is getting the right amount of minutes right now to progress him in his second season. I expect him to continue to improve and maybe next year or the year after eventually take a big step forward. He needs to put on some weight over the next few years.

[DAF86]

6 pts (6-8 from the line), 6 rbds, 3 assts, 1 stl, + 13 on 19 minutes.

I liked that stint where he kept forcing Beverly to foul him.

[BackHome]

The kid did good tonight does he need to get better yes will he get better YES.

[daslicer]

Since coming off the bench he's been solid. He's a work in progress but he will get better.

[BackHome]

Grades

Gasol A - he was hitting threes and rebounding
LMA A+ - he was a beast hitting shots taking advantage of shorter players guarding him and fighting for rebounds
Rudy A - he was doing everything steal of a pickup
Green A- my Lionel Richie finally showing up

Mills B- - played with confidence hit the threes and set up his team mates
Manu B - what can u say he is Manu

Special mention:
Forbes - Very confident hitting threes not so good taking it to the rim
Murray - Good game played defense and rebounded the ball and also didn’t back down

[duncan2k5]

6 pts (6-8 from the line), 6 rbds, 3 assts, 1 stl, + 13 on 19 minutes.

I liked that stint where he kept forcing Beverly to foul him.

Missed the game... Elaborate on that stint

[tonight...you]

Grades

Gasol A - he was hitting threes and rebounding
LMA A+ - he was a beast hitting shots taking advantage of shorter players guarding him and fighting for rebounds
Rudy A - he was doing everything steal of a pickup
Green A- my Lionel Richie finally showing up

Mills B- - played with confidence hit the threes and set up his team mates
Manu B - what can u say he is Manu

Special mention:
Forbes - Very confident hitting threes not so good taking it to the rim
Murray - Good game played defense and rebounded the ball and also didn’t back down
Thank you!

[DAF86]

Missed the game... Elaborate on that stint

He kept the pressure on Beverly and got to the line in like three straigth possessions.

[tholdren]

He kept the pressure on Beverly and got to the line in like three straigth possessions.

Hes still pretty awful.

[TheDoctor]

Grades

Gasol A - he was hitting threes and rebounding
LMA A+ - he was a beast hitting shots taking advantage of shorter players guarding him and fighting for rebounds
Rudy A - he was doing everything steal of a pickup
Green A- my Lionel Richie finally showing up

Mills B- - played with confidence hit the threes and set up his team mates
Manu B - what can u say he is Manu

Special mention:
Forbes - Very confident hitting threes not so good taking it to the rim
Murray - Good game played defense and rebounded the ball and also didn’t back down

Thanks for the grades :tu

[DAF86]

luz5MY02nhI

Form looking good in here. He just needs to let it fly.

[Ice009]

I saw a couple of good looking shots in the Bulls game. Keep shooting it, I want to see more of his form, but it looked good based on the couple of 3 point shots I saw him make.

Not sure if being up big played a part in him feeling more comfortable taking those shots, but either way, he needs to take and make those same shots when the game is up for grabs and the pressure is higher. Good job tonight, though.

I really want to see Murray take the reigns because I almost can't stand Patty at this point. Overpaid shooter that can't play his position of PG or even shoot the ball all that well.

[spursistan]

Since this thread was made, Murray has reverted to being a SMALL game player looking good and promising........in garbage time..


Recommendations: Pink the faggot OP..

[TheGreatYacht]

Since this thread was made, Murray has reverted to being a SMALL game player looking good and promising........in garbage time..


Recommendations: Pink the faggot OP..

[duncan2k5]

Since this thread was made, he was moved to the bench where he has a worse chance of growing... Benching him to start Patty vs the Warriors was a dumb move by pop... Murray even played better than Patty vs them in the playoffs for goodness sakes

[SAGirl]

He has actually been fine for the level that he is at. It's not a humiliation to play from the bench. He can't shoot and the starters play through the post game a lot, he has to stay off the ball a lot and they used to park him under the basket most of the time. It's just not a great use for him. But even with that, he didn't necessarily need to lose minutes bc Mills hasn't been good either. So it's on him to show Pop his improvement.Every opportunity to play, no matter at what point it comes, is a chance to show Pop.

[TheDoctor]

Since this thread was made, he was moved to the bench where he has a worse chance of growing... Benching him to start Patty vs the Warriors was a dumb move by pop... Murray even played better than Patty vs them in the playoffs for goodness sakes
Another daboom’s curse. And the list go on.

[tholdren]

Since this thread was made, he was moved to the bench where he has a worse chance of growing... Benching him to start Patty vs the Warriors was a dumb move by pop... Murray even played better than Patty vs them in the playoffs for goodness sakes

Murray is garbage.

[duncan2k5]

Murray is garbage.

Patty is worse

[Amuseddaysleeper]

We have the worst PG rotation in the NBA

[Ice009]

We have the worst PG rotation in the NBA

It's down towards the bottom, that's for sure. Other teams might have some injuries and make their PG rotations bad too, but the Spurs even when TP comes back, still isn't a very good PG rotation. TP's going to have to turn the clock back a little bit to save it.

[Stabula]

We have the worst PG rotation in the NBA

[Raven]

I'd like for him to go back to starting.

[Raven]

We have the worst PG rotation in the NBA

....right.. You may wanna double check the brooklin, chicago, cleveland and both LA teams rotations... for starters.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

....right.. You may wanna double check the brooklin, chicago, cleveland and both LA teams rotations... for starters.

Healthy IT blows away any guard on the Spurs

[Raven]

Healthy IT blows away any guard on the Spurs

we have = present tense. Also no.

[Mr. Body]

Do the Spurs target another point guard in the draft, or what?

[MaNu4Tres]

Do the Spurs target another point guard in the draft, or what?

They re-sign Parker to a 3 year 30 mil deal. 2 year guarantee and trade Murray and trade Forbes because...

Patty and Tony IS forever....

[MaNu4Tres]

Do the Spurs target another point guard in the draft, or what?

No. Do what Boston is doing and that is drafting the best two way wing on the board.

Positions no longer matter. Skill-sets do and the most valuable skills sets are two way wings with length that can play both ends.

Boston drafted Jaylen Brown in 16' then went ahead and traded for/drafted Tatum and drafted Semi then gave Hayward the max. All "labeled" SFs.

Boston is doing it the right way. You don't see them giving 6'0 role players 50 million and won't ever see them doing this.

[8FOR!3]

No. Do what Boston is doing and that is drafting the best two way wing on the board.

Positions no longer matter. Skill-sets do and the most valuable skills sets are two way wings with length that can play both ends.

Boston drafted Jaylen Brown in 16' then went ahead and traded for/drafted Tatum and drafted Semi then gave Hayward the max. All "labeled" SFs.

Boston is doing it the right way. You don't see them giving 6'0 role players 50 million and won't ever see them doing this.

That's nice right now, but next year Smart's going to want to get paid and if they let him walk then Rozier is eventually going to want bigger money too.

Drafting the best two way wing on the board is all fine and dandy when you have lottery picks. There were no wings left I would have given first round grades (Wes Iwundu and/or Semi Ojeleye might turn out to be fine players but I think you could do better at #29.) We did draft Blossomgame but it was late and who knows if he'll ever amount to anything. Dillon Brooks/Thornwell would have been good picks but I think would have been viewed as reaches on draft day. Bacon/Dotson maybe? Idk.

[sasaint]

Do the Spurs target another point guard in the draft, or what?

Haha, why not! If at first you don't succeed... :toast

[TD 21]

Agree that loading up on long, versatile wings should be a general focus going forward, but the vast majority in the league have more than likely figured that out by now and with Gasol 37, Aldridge 32 and only Milutinov (thinking match-up dependant backup is the likely ceiling) in the pipeline, Spurs also have to find a big with the potential to at least be something like a low end starter or third big, too.

It sounds nice to say, unless you have a foundational one, don't worry about traditional or true big and just cobble center together with a cadre of inexpensive types like those arrogant pricks, but that only works because they have elite small ball options in Green and Durant, along with everything else they have going for them.

[marinoman]

We have the worst Guard rotation in the NBA
Fixed

[duncan2k5]

I'd like for him to go back to starting.

me too...we were much better and much more fun to watch then

[Stabula]

Murray is total shit right now. He has potential but even Fafty Mills or Bryn Forbes are better than him.

[spursistan]

I don't think the conditions for Murray to establish himself in the team's (point) guard hierarchy could have been more favorable than they are right now.

Dude simply shat the bed..

Looking back, he had a fluke opening week of the season when teams were still shaking off rust and he wasn't still on the scouting report..Otherwise, there is no tangible improvement from his rookie season.

[Mr. Body]

He shot his wad in like two games. Decent defense and not throwing the ball away is the high hopes now.

[dabom]

I don't think the conditions for Murray to establish himself in the team's (point) guard hierarchy could have been more favorable than they are right now.

Dude simply shat the bed..

Looking back, he had a fluke opening week of the season when teams were still shaking off rust and he wasn't still on the scouting report..Otherwise, there is no tangible improvement from his rookie season.

Why are you always a faggot? Jump off the team. Your basketball knowledge is imaginary.

[TrainOfThought5]

Why are you always a faggot? Jump off the team. Your basketball knowledge is imaginary.

:lol

[Chinook]

Murray's doing fine right now. But he shouldn't be starting. His negative plays usually outweight the positive ones. Dude flashes potential, but in between those flares are stretches of unacceptable play. Dude is in a dogfight with Pau to see who can give the most and-1s up under the new rules.

[dabom]

:lol

:lol

[Raven]

i don't understand why he and kyle refuse to shoot open triples. we're ok with you missing those ffs

[Sugus]

Murray is garbage.

You can always count on forum retard th:lolldren having a retarded post, it's almost clockwork :lmao

[Texas_Ranger]

if only he would be consistent, he'd be an all-star candidate.

[Dejounte]

Everyone vs dabom like usual. :lol
dabom (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=47543) with the basketball knowledge. :tu
https://media.giphy.com/media/82okbIOv8krUhwgHCz/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/mn1cym1jiJOUg/giphy.gif