Texans driven mad as tolls burn holes in their wallets

[FuzzyLumpkins]

But as the number of toll projects continues to ramp up in the name of easier commutes, Dean is among thousands of Texans feeling anything but relief. Drivers across the state complain about paying tolls on top of gas taxes, being charged exorbitant late fees and having to choose between traffic delays or costly toll bills.

Texans, local officials and legislators have pushed back on plans for new toll roads and managed toll lanes in recent years. Voters in 2014 and 2015 sent the Texas Department of Transportation more revenue, after state leaders assured them that the money wouldn’t be used on toll projects. The agency considered using an accounting maneuver to still fund some new managed toll lanes but backed off that idea amid political pressure Thursday.

Meanwhile, Texans are seeing existing toll lanes impacting their pocketbooks — and influencing major life choices.

In 2015, an 11-mile stretch of Austin’s MoPac Boulevard expanded to eight lanes from six, and the two new lanes were tolled — to the displeasure of Laura Thomas.

The Austin resident bought a house near the corridor thinking the construction would be complete within a year. But construction on the $200 million project took much longer, making the drive to her daughter’s school “unbearable.” Thomas found herself having to choose between paying a toll to skip traffic or spend time trapped in gridlock.

“At peak times the cost of the toll could be over $10,” Thomas said. “My stress level was through the roof.”

Eventually, Thomas sold her house and downsized to an apartment in another part of the city that had 500 fewer square feet and one less bedroom.

“Obviously it was a big trade-off,” Thomas said. “But my main question to myself when making the decision was, ‘Is my sanity worth it?’ And it was worth sacrificing some things for peace in the mornings.”

For Christie Nichols Duty of Kaufman, a town about 35 miles southeast of Dallas, toll roads have proven to be hard to avoid — even when she tries. Last year, she and her husband were driving on Interstate 35-E near downtown Dallas when they realized they were in a lane that would force them to enter the Dallas North Tollway. The couple tried to change lanes, but weren’t successful.

Duty said they’ve also had problems with confusing signs on other highways, like LBJ Freeway, that have managed toll lanes running alongside main lanes.

“For people that are not used to the area, it can be very deceiving,” she said.

When the couple received a $35 bill from the North Texas Tollway Authority, they didn’t initially pay it because they weren't happy with being "forced onto the tollway." Now it’s ballooned into a $1,200 bill.

“We’ll have to do a payment plan because we don't have that kind of money sitting around,” Duty said.

Michelle Kelly of Mesquite used to rely on toll roads all the time when she was a student at the University of North Texas in Denton. These days, she uses the Bush Turnpike to go to nearby Rowlett or visit Firewheel Town Center in Garland. But she said the “pricey tolls” mean she only uses that corridor on occasion.

“I’m on a budget, and it hurts my budget if I drive on them on a regular basis,” she said.

Dean, the Lewisville commuter, is among many people who thought that once toll revenues paid off construction costs, roads and toll lanes would become free for drivers. But toll agencies and the Texas Department of Transportation instead plan to use excess toll money to fund road maintenance — and construction of new projects.

That includes new toll projects.

“The sad thing is, the tolls never go away,” Dean said. “Oftentimes we are paying tolls just to sit in traffic, and the toll roads are supposed to alleviate the traffic.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/17/texans-driven-mad-tolls-burn-holes-their-wallets/

[benefactor]

:cry muh roads :cry

Fucking government criminals

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:cry muh roads :cry

Fucking government criminals

Private prisons and tollways need to be abolished.

[sickdsm]

I'd hate tolls. But that their is a need for them is a way of saying that either taxes need to be raised or their is mismanagement of funds. Whether that's in the transportation budget or just a general govt. problem is debateable. You shouldn't be upset at the private companies. You should be furious at big government. Its a shining example of mismanagement.


Locally there was a small co-op that's best days were behind them. Gas/tires/repair/etc. very common in small town america. Past 5 years lots of financial problems. Another larger successful grain elevator co-op in town bought it and resold it to a private company in order to save their pensions. Within a few months private company drastically cut back on health insurance, wages and benefits. 3/4 of the employees quit. Employees are bitching about the big bad private company where to me it showed that years and years of mismanagement took a private company very little time to correct. No different than the roads. If you have a problem with toll roads, you need to start getting rid of the mismanagement of govt.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'd hate tolls. But that their is a need for them is a way of saying that either taxes need to be raised or their is mismanagement of funds. Whether that's in the transportation budget or just a general govt. problem is debateable. You shouldn't be upset at the private companies. You should be furious at big government. Its a shining example of mismanagement.


Locally there was a small co-op that's best days were behind them. Gas/tires/repair/etc. very common in small town america. Past 5 years lots of financial problems. Another larger successful grain elevator co-op in town bought it and resold it to a private company in order to save their pensions. Within a few months private company drastically cut back on health insurance, wages and benefits. 3/4 of the employees quit. Employees are bitching about the big bad private company where to me it showed that years and years of mismanagement took a private company very little time to correct. No different than the roads. If you have a problem with toll roads, you need to start getting rid of the mismanagement of govt.

You should read the article instead of spouting one size fits all ideology. The roadways are not "fixed" and they misled the public repeatedly.

[sickdsm]

You should read the article instead of spouting one size fits all ideology. The roadways are not "fixed" and they misled the public repeatedly.

I did. It mentioned construction but started the plan was to use tolls for maintenence rather than take them awaay once construction was completed. How is this even a story? "Public outraged after temporary fees become permanent due to govt."

[RandomGuy]

I'd hate tolls. But that their is a need for them is a way of saying that either taxes need to be raised or their is mismanagement of funds. Whether that's in the transportation budget or just a general govt. problem is debateable. You shouldn't be upset at the private companies. You should be furious at big government. Its a shining example of mismanagement.


Locally there was a small co-op that's best days were behind them. Gas/tires/repair/etc. very common in small town america. Past 5 years lots of financial problems. Another larger successful grain elevator co-op in town bought it and resold it to a private company in order to save their pensions. Within a few months private company drastically cut back on health insurance, wages and benefits. 3/4 of the employees quit. Employees are bitching about the big bad private company where to me it showed that years and years of mismanagement took a private company very little time to correct. No different than the roads. If you have a problem with toll roads, you need to start getting rid of the mismanagement of govt.

Free-markets, without government restraint, will produce results that make society worse off.

Free-markets are not infallible. Governments can do things better than private companies.

Libertarian dogma is an abject failure, like communism.

[sickdsm]

Free-markets, without government restraint, will produce results that make society worse off.

Free-markets are not infallible. Governments can do things better than private companies.

Libertarian dogma is an abject failure, like communism.

You discuss free markets like they have no end to their greed. You discuss govt. like it has no end to their nobility.

I'm woke AF. I know that a libetarian majority wouldn't be utopia. I know because life turns to shit whenever the R's or D's have a majority. I do know that a significant number of truly independent politicians would make the us a much better place.

[rjv]

my city is trying to fast track a toll road behind the residents' backs. we ousted the previous mayor for a candidate who ran as opposed to the toll road so hopefully this will impact the future of it. there wasn't one single reason given by city council that justified the need for one. if anything, it just made the members appear to be recipients of future promises made to them by the few who would actually benefit. and, yes, it would be privatized by a well known lender called Public Works that often creates loopholes that would get them off the hook if the road did not pay for itself by the time the note matures. the city would then be on the hook for the road.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I did. It mentioned construction but started the plan was to use tolls for maintenence rather than take them awaay once construction was completed. How is this even a story? "Public outraged after temporary fees become permanent due to govt."

The articles says that the public had been led to believe that once the construction costs were covered the road would be free. Instead they kept the tolls and used them to try and make more toll roads. It's bullshit.

[Chucho]

LOL, Texas knows nothing about "gas taxes". Come here to California where the DemoKKKrats can pass the largest gas taxes in history without any citizen votes and input so they can "fix the roadways".

[SpursforSix]

Fuck it. There's almost always an alternative to a toll road. People pay for conveniences all the time.

What's the next step? Banning Flash Passes at Six Flags?

[boutons_deux]

privatized toll roads are monopolistic for-exorbitant-profit control of a critical resource. miss paying a toll, in Austin that's a $100 penalty

[SpursforSix]

privatized toll roads are monopolistic for-exorbitant-profit control of a critical resource. miss paying a toll, in Austin that's a $100 penalty

Tough shit. Don't drive on the toll roads then. How is that any different than going over on your data usage?

[rjv]

the argument of "don't drive on it if you don't like it" only works in a vacuum. in other words, this would be fine if no one who ever used the toll road ever had to pay for it in any way, shape or form. but that is far from the case. toll roads have failed all too often in texas and the resulting debt falls on all of the taxpayers when this happens, not just those who used it. they also can impact infrastructure negatively and create more ongoing road problems than the ones they were "intended" to resolve. all too often, they are fasttracked and the so called feasibility studies confined to a non-neutral party.

[SpursforSix]

the argument of "don't drive on it if you don't like it" only works in a vacuum. in other words, this would be fine if no one who ever used the toll road ever had to pay for it in any way, shape or form. but that is far from the case. toll roads have failed all too often in texas and the resulting debt falls on all of the taxpayers when this happens, not just those who used it. they also can impact infrastructure negatively and create more ongoing road problems than the ones they were "intended" to resolve. all too often, they are fasttracked and the so called feasibility studies confined to a non-neutral party.

No. They work fine. I've got a toll tag and only have to use the toll roads about once a week. But I can zoom to my destination like a rocket ship. Sometimes, I'll shoot the finger at the mooks on the free road as I pass them. Other times, I'll pull out my gat and fire some shots into the air like Wild Bill Hiccock and scream "Yeeeeehawwww".

The worst part is getting on a toll road that doesn't give me the exit I need and I have to turn around. Then it's pretty humbling.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Tough shit. Don't drive on the toll roads then. How is that any different than going over on your data usage?

So you are into taxation without representation then. Got it.

I prefer tough shit to your corporate overlords.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No. They work fine. I've got a toll tag and only have to use the toll roads about once a week. But I can zoom to my destination like a rocket ship. Sometimes, I'll shoot the finger at the mooks on the free road as I pass them. Other times, I'll pull out my gat and fire some shots into the air like Wild Bill Hiccock and scream "Yeeeeehawwww".

The worst part is getting on a toll road that doesn't give me the exit I need and I have to turn around. Then it's pretty humbling.

So because it is njot a problem for you then you don't care. Your lack of empathy is noted.

Meanwhile the article pointed out several people where that was not the case. Nevermind that they are going against the voter's will to make more toll roads. Your lack of vision is showing.

[SpursforSix]

So you are into taxation without representation then. Got it.

I prefer tough shit to your corporate overlords.

You didn't answer my question. How is that going over your data usage? I'll wave to your strawman when he shows up.

[rjv]

No. They work fine. I've got a toll tag and only have to use the toll roads about once a week. But I can zoom to my destination like a rocket ship. Sometimes, I'll shoot the finger at the mooks on the free road as I pass them. Other times, I'll pull out my gat and fire some shots into the air like Wild Bill Hiccock and scream "Yeeeeehawwww".

The worst part is getting on a toll road that doesn't give me the exit I need and I have to turn around. Then it's pretty humbling. i'm sure they do as promised in regards to circumventing traffic, but i was referring to problems resulting from economic, as opposed to logistical, failure as in not being able to pay off the note when it matures because the road did not generate the anticipated revenue.

[SpursforSix]

So because it is njot a problem for you then you don't care. Your lack of empathy is noted.

Meanwhile the article pointed out several people where that was not the case. Nevermind that they are going against the voter's will to make more toll roads. Your lack of vision is showing.

What's "njot"? You'll need a bulldozer to help you move the goalposts.

[SpursforSix]

i'm sure they do as promised in regards to circumventing traffic, but i was referring to problems resulting from economic, as opposed to logistical, failure as in not being able to pay off the note when it matures because the road did not generate the anticipated revenue.

Oh...I don't know about all that. I haven't thought it through.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You didn't answer my question. How is that going over your data usage? I'll wave to your strawman when he shows up.

I wasn't asked that question. Also one is a privately founded business and the other is a government sponsored entity. Do I need to explain to you how that is significant?

[SpursforSix]

I wasn't asked that question. Also one is a privately founded business and the other is a government sponsored entity. Do I need to explain to you how that is significant?

I guess it might help me understand the situation if you'd explain it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What's "njot"? You'll need a bulldozer to help you move the goalposts.

A typo. And what goalposts? You did say that you were not affected and used that as a basis for nto caring.

I'm discussing the issues the article brings up not setting goals. Try a different deflection tactic.

[SpursforSix]

A typo. And what goalposts? You did say that you were not affected and used that as a basis for nto caring.

I'm discussing the issues the article brings up not setting goals. Try a different deflection tactic.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I guess it might help me understand the situation if you'd explain it.

The tollways have to be approved by the state meaning that their is inherently governmental authority. This makes sense as you are creating a monopoly over these roadways. We live in a democratic republic where we elect representatives to run the government in our stead. The whole for the people, by the people thing. As such the government is supposed to govern at our pleasure.

Instead they are ignoring our interests and lying to us about the nature of the tollway programs they are starting. That is not for the people by the people instead it is for of a small number of wealthy corporate entities.

With data usage caps that is done by a privately founded business where there is no inherent government authority. Given the capital, any investor or group of investors can compete in the market of ISPs. For example we have no data caps on our service through a competitor of whatever shitty ISP you use that caps your data. Compare and contrast with the tollways where one company is gifted the toll road and there is no competition.

[TeyshaBlue]

Ive got first hand experience with what our local tolling agency puts away in groceries for their offices each week. Its sickening. But hey, they're raising the toll rates again. Got to pay for that organic spinach ya know. Cant run an office on less than $300/week for snacks.
Fuck.

[SpursforSix]

The tollways have to be approved by the state meaning that their is inherently governmental authority. This makes sense as you are creating a monopoly over these roadways. We live in a democratic republic where we elect representatives to run the government in our stead. The whole for the people, by the people thing. As such the government is supposed to govern at our pleasure.

Instead they are ignoring our interests and lying to us about the nature of the tollway programs they are starting. That is not for the people by the people instead it is for of a small number of wealthy corporate entities.

With data usage caps that is done by a privately founded business where there is no inherent government authority. Given the capital, any investor or group of investors can compete in the market of ISPs. For example we have no data caps on our service through a competitor of whatever shitty ISP you use that caps your data. Compare and contrast with the tollways where one company is gifted the toll road and there is no competition.

Lots of shit has to be approved by a governmental authority. Prescription meds for one. And the dudes on the FDA board are largely made of ex-BigPharm CEOs.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

That is when using real events and phenomenon. When writing in a human construct like a paragraph there are certain conventions that you are disregarding.

You said they worked fine and in the same paragraph used several supporting sentences to back that initial claim. If you want to retract that as your basis for saying that they work fine then you are entitled to do so but then you have no basis for said claim. If that is the case I would recommend to learn to write using paragraphs.

http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/students/fwalters/para.html

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lots of shit has to be approved by a governmental authority. Prescription meds for one. And the dudes on the FDA board are largely made of ex-BigPharm CEOs.

Sure and our voices count in those instances. Data usage caps are not in that group. Nice red herring though.

[boutons_deux]

our voices count

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Just because other parties have a bigger voice given Citizen's United does not mean that our voices don't count.

I'm surprised you haven't offed yourself yet given your constant doomsaying and surrender tbh.

[sickdsm]

The articles says that the public had been led to believe that once the construction costs were covered the road would be free. Instead they kept the tolls and used them to try and make more toll roads. It's bullshit.


Did you just discover how the world works? Why do you think everyone else hates when a new fee or tax is imposed? I'm still paying fuel surcharges for some deliverys that were imposed when gas was really high.

[SpursforSix]

That is when using real events and phenomenon. When writing in a human construct like a paragraph there are certain conventions that you are disregarding.

You said they worked fine and in the same paragraph used several supporting sentences to back that initial claim. If you want to retract that as your basis for saying that they work fine then you are entitled to do so but then you have no basis for said claim. If that is the case I would recommend to learn to write using paragraphs.

http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/students/fwalters/para.html

No...I don't need to retract. I stand by my initial claim. Tollways work perfectly for me.

[SpursforSix]

Sure and our voices count in those instances. Data usage caps are not in that group. Nice red herring though.

What do you mean "our voices count"?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Did you just discover how the world works? Why do you think everyone else hates when a new fee or tax is imposed? I'm still paying fuel surcharges for some deliverys that were imposed when gas was really high.

So that is how you think that the world works? We are inherently a corptocracy or oligarchy? We should just surrender to our corporate overlords? You don't lean towards libertarian. You lean towards corporate shill.

Not everyone hates every tax. For example, Warren Buffett has repeatedly called for more taxes on his class. People particularly don't tend to care about taxes that don't apply to them.

[boutons_deux]

does not mean that our voices don't count.


our voices don't count, citizens have been effectively disenfranchised by the oligarchy, and it's getting muc worse.

Show where "things" are getting better and citizens voices count. Both are fucking myths.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What do you mean "our voices count"?

What do you think Lincoln meant when he said "Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."

[FuzzyLumpkins]

our voices don't count, citizens have been effectively disenfranchised by the oligarchy, and it's getting muc worse.

Show where "things" are getting better and citizens voices count. Both are fucking myths.

Maybe for you. I have attended city council meetings and written to my reps and that has not been my experience. I get that they care about their big donors more but that does not mean my voice doesn't count.

And who said things are getting better?

[boutons_deux]

What do you think Lincoln meant when he said "Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."

white male slave holding FFs excluded the voices of "women" and "slaves" from being part of the country's "For The People".

women people couldn't vote until 120 years later, getting the vote many decades AFTER blacks did.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

white male slave holding FFs excluded the voices of "women" and "slaves" from being part of the country's "For The People".

women people couldn't vote until 120 years later, getting the vote many decades AFTER blacks did.

Lincoln said that in 1863. The 19th amendment passed in 1920. Your rant does not apply to what I wrote. That speech specifically calls for the end of slavery which came to pass a few years later. Try and keep up.

[boutons_deux]

Lincoln said that in 1863. The 19th amendment passed in 1920. Your rant does not apply to what I wrote. That speech specifically calls for the end of slavery which came to pass a few years later. Try and keep up.

Blacks got the vote in 1870

women got the vote in 1920

you're WAY behind.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Blacks got the vote in 1870

women got the vote in 1920

you're WAY behind.

That contradicts nothing of what I wrote but it does contradict your talk of women getting the right to vote 120 years later. Nice fail though. You should just take the loss and move on, Boutox

[boutons_deux]

That contradicts nothing of what I wrote but it does contradict your talk of women getting the right to vote 120 years later

1789 to 1920 is how many years "later" ?

[SpursforSix]

1789 to 1920 is how many years "later" ?

It's 131 dumbass.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

1789 to 1920 is how many years "later" ?

Lincoln is not a founding father, boutox. Your posts have been irrelevant to what I wrote. Still not keeping up.

[Chucho]

It's 131 dumbass.

:lol

[boutons_deux]

Lincoln is not a founding father, boutox. Your posts have been irrelevant to what I wrote. Still not keeping up.

Lincoln did nothing about blacks or women's voting rights, so they were still not full "(by the) people" in his speech.

‘government of the white men, by the white men, for the white men’

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lincoln did nothing about blacks or women's voting rights, so they were still not full "(by the) people" in his speech.

How is that his fault? The war was still being fought. He was working on the 13th at that time which was ratified 2 years later then on the eve of his death he openly supporting black suffrage. Sorry he died before he could finish his goals but to say he did nothing is wrong.

[sickdsm]

So that is how you think that the world works? We are inherently a corptocracy or oligarchy? We should just surrender to our corporate overlords? You don't lean towards libertarian. You lean towards corporate shill.

Not everyone hates every tax. For example, Warren Buffett has repeatedly called for more taxes on his class. People particularly don't tend to care about taxes that don't apply to them.

I didn't say surrender or deal with it. Should have been addressed right away. Was there just a "good ole' boy" understanding when project was completed tolls would go away? If its not down on paper it didn't happen. Now you understand why the rest of the population HATES fee's, tax's, etc. because they almost never go away.


THAT'S how the world works.

[dabom]

I didn't say surrender or deal with it. Should have been addressed right away. Was there just a "good ole' boy" understanding when project was completed tolls would go away? If its not down on paper it didn't happen. Now you understand why the rest of the population HATES fee's, tax's, etc. because they almost never go away.


THAT'S how the world works.

Can you explain how the US runs if we eliminate income tax?

[sickdsm]

Can you explain how the US runs if we eliminate income tax?


Pick a tax and roll with it. I prefer nationwide sales tax, fair for everyone, less complicated. Everything taxed same rate, could almost eliminate IRS.

Temporary opt outs become permanent all the time. Don't you agree?

[dabom]

Pick a tax and roll with it. I prefer nationwide sales tax, fair for everyone, less complicated. Everything taxed same rate, could almost eliminate IRS.

Temporary opt outs become permanent all the time. Don't you agree?

That makes mainly the poor and middle class paying for most of these sales taxes. The rich would love these. :lol

[sickdsm]

That makes mainly the poor and middle class paying for most of these sales taxes. The rich would love these. :lol

Makes consumers pay for it.


We don't gotta pick a class to assfuck. Just fuck em all the same.

[dabom]

Makes consumers pay for it.


We don't gotta pick a class to assfuck. Just fuck em all the same.

But you are not "ass-fucking" them the same. :lol

[Chucho]

But you are not "ass-fucking" them the same. :lol

So...poor people spend more than rich people is what you're saying?

[dabom]

So...poor people spend more than rich people is what you're saying?

Percentage wise, the poor are affected more by sales taxes.

[sickdsm]

But you are not "ass-fucking" them the same. :lol

That's not the context of "assfuck" i was thinking. You can't tell me what i was intending.

:lol

[dabom]

That's not the context of "assfuck" i was thinking. You can't tell me what i was intending.

:lol
Why does talking to repubs always end up coming to the lowest common denominator. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I didn't say surrender or deal with it. Should have been addressed right away. Was there just a "good ole' boy" understanding when project was completed tolls would go away? If its not down on paper it didn't happen. Now you understand why the rest of the population HATES fee's, tax's, etc. because they almost never go away.


THAT'S how the world works.

We were told by state leaders that after the construction was paid for the tolls would go away. We voted that extra funding to the DoT would not go to tollways. Neither was honored.

And seriously you need to speak for yourself. You don't get to speak for the world or what people's opinions are.

According to Gallup, 42% of the population say they are fine with the taxes they are paying.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1714/taxes.aspx

Your ideology is wrong.

[dabom]

This is from around 2006 but the goal is still the same.

The rich would benefit from this.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/who-bears-burden-national-retail-sales-tax

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is from around 2006 but the goal is still the same.

The rich would benefit from this.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/who-bears-burden-national-retail-sales-tax

It's widely known that sales tax is regressive.

[dabom]

It's widely known that sales tax is regressive.

Pretty common if you ain't an idiot.