Djpounte Murray flaws need a lot of work

[wildbill2u]

Watching Murray play a lot of minutes against OKC gave him an opportunity to display his game, flaws and all. He reminds me of a quote I heard Sir Charles Barkley say about young athletes with no particular skill sets, " http://www.great-quotes.com/static/images/authors/190485-small.jpg (http://www.great-quotes.com/quotes/author/Charles/Barkley)
0



"They run like deer, jump like deer and think like deer. But if you notice, not many deer play in the NBA for long" (http://www.great-quotes.com/quote/117564) — Charles Barkley.

(http://www.great-quotes.com/quotes/author/Charles/Barkley)Once when Murray was bringing the ball up the court, he looked like an impala, bounding way up in the air several feet off the ground and carrying his dribble up as high as his head. I remembered Barkley's quote and thought, "What the Fuck is he doing way up there and what will he do with the ball." What was he thinking? But it was illustrative of something I've been commenting on since the first day we got a look at him. He dribbles the ball really really high, liking to take off on a drive with the ball up near his shoulder. The problem with that in the NBA is that guys are simply stripping him or stealing the ball a lot. Or he loses control once he gets into the paint with bodies all around trying to get that ball from him. You never saw Parker with that trouble. It was amazing how Tony could slither in among all those bigs and still get a shot off.

Most of his points come off those drives and he hasn't really developed his outside shooting. He sometimes still shoots from outside with that funny motion that gives a sideways rotation to the ball. Can't stick in this league with that form. One airball three from the end of the game was horribly off target with no excuse of anyone being near him to affect his shot. Calling Chip!

PGs really need to pass to the open man in the short corner 3 spot at the end of close games. Tried to hero ball it with a drive a time or two into crowds without noticing his team mates. Granted it takes a while, but he still thinks of himself as the prime shooter when he is in the game. He hasn't earned that yet IMO>

SO THE QUESTION IS THIS : MURRAY SHOWS FLASHES OF ATHLETICISM LIKE A DEER, BUT IS MURRAY THE PG FOR THE FUTURE?

[dabom]

Yeah, dumb question. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Seems obvious to me that he focused on putting on muscle, improving his defense, and rebounding. He needs work on his shot and understanding of the offense but PG is the most complicated position to learn in the NBA. He has made noticeable improvements.

[dabom]

DM has a TON of upside. Just him rebounding from the PG position is a CRAZY plus. I'm not even talking about everything else. Rebounding wins playoff games.

[spursistan]

Great diagnosis :tu

Right now he isn't even at jack off all trades; master of none stage..All you see is the flashes but nothing methodical and fundamentally sound..

[dabom]

The big noticeable difference when Kawhi was young, was his athleticism and rebounding.

[BD24]

Yes. He needs to develop an outside shot at some point though. Doesn’t need to be a knockdown shooter, just competent enough that defenses can’t leave him open or sag off a bunch

[SpursforSix]

Great diagnosis :tu

Right now he isn't even at jack off all trades; master of none stage..All you see is the flashes but nothing methodical and fundamentally sound..

Yeah. I think he's had enough time to be able to call it what it is. He's not going to be any kind of superstar and probably not even someone who ever sniffs an All Star game. He's a decent athlete that give good effort and can play at an NBA level.
But he's nothing special.

[TheGreatYacht]

Second best guard on the team after HOTS, imho.

[SAGirl]

It’s a process. Spurs are relatively patient with young players they like and it takes a lot of work and a real struggle to continue to improve poor areas. Pop said he’s coachable and works really hard so all we can do is wait.

He’s a deer with an active motor and aggressive mentality, that’s already very disruptive defensively. It’s going to be between the ears for him at this point. Playing more intelligently, making good decisions, outsmarting your opponent too. How disruptive he can be on defense is a great starting spot. But obviously that can’t be it. We want him to be better than that so it’s going to take time.

There are indeed many deer who never quite put it together so giving them some time is the only way to see if they make a leap of don’t.

[rjv]

i wouldn't use the analogy of a deer caught in the headlights for murray because that suggests fear and that is a quality that murray does not have. i would, instead, suggest that he is more like a yearling in that he just seems clumsy sometimes and lacking in "corporate knowledge", all fixable traits.

[Keepin' it real]

DJM flaws need a lot of work

My flaws are perfect.

[dabom]

i wouldn't use the analogy of a deer caught in the headlights for murray because that suggests fear and that is a quality that murray does not have. i would, instead, suggest that he is more like a yearling in that he just seems clumsy sometimes and lacking in "corporate knowledge", all fixable traits.

Very true. :tu

[dabom]

I could also go on and on all the plus sides to his game. But ya not smart enough for that.

[hater]

If Delonte Murray is a deer what does that make Patty?

[dabom]

If Delonte Murray is a deer what does that make Patty?

Triple Crown Winner.

[hater]

A deerburger?

[TheDoctor]

If Delonte Murray is a deer what does that make Patty?

Some kind of fat marsupial.

[TheGreatYacht]

If Delonte Murray is a deer what does that make Patty?
A blobfish.

[tonight...you]

Some kind of fat marsupial.
Drop Bear

[rastaspur]

A manatee?

[tholdren]

Watching Murray play a lot of minutes against OKC gave him an opportunity to display his game, flaws and all. He reminds me of a quote I heard Sir Charles Barkley say about young athletes with no particular skill sets, " http://www.great-quotes.com/static/images/authors/190485-small.jpg (http://www.great-quotes.com/quotes/author/Charles/Barkley)
0



"They run like deer, jump like deer and think like deer. But if you notice, not many deer play in the NBA for long" (http://www.great-quotes.com/quote/117564) — Charles Barkley.

(http://www.great-quotes.com/quotes/author/Charles/Barkley)Once when Murray was bringing the ball up the court, he looked like an impala, bounding way up in the air several feet off the ground and carrying his dribble up as high as his head. I remembered Barkley's quote and thought, "What the Fuck is he doing way up there and what will he do with the ball." What was he thinking? But it was illustrative of something I've been commenting on since the first day we got a look at him. He dribbles the ball really really high, liking to take off on a drive with the ball up near his shoulder. The problem with that in the NBA is that guys are simply stripping him or stealing the ball a lot. Or he loses control once he gets into the paint with bodies all around trying to get that ball from him. You never saw Parker with that trouble. It was amazing how Tony could slither in among all those bigs and still get a shot off.

Most of his points come off those drives and he hasn't really developed his outside shooting. He sometimes still shoots from outside with that funny motion that gives a sideways rotation to the ball. Can't stick in this league with that form. One airball three from the end of the game was horribly off target with no excuse of anyone being near him to affect his shot. Calling Chip!

PGs really need to pass to the open man in the short corner 3 spot at the end of close games. Tried to hero ball it with a drive a time or two into crowds without noticing his team mates. Granted it takes a while, but he still thinks of himself as the prime shooter when he is in the game. He hasn't earned that yet IMO>

SO THE QUESTION IS THIS : MURRAY SHOWS FLASHES OF ATHLETICISM LIKE A DEER, BUT IS MURRAY THE PG FOR THE FUTURE?

Considering the nba, sadly, he will be good in this league. If you think he will be a good basketball player no. He cant dribble, pass, or shoot yet he got a d1 ride.... dumbest player i have ever watched for sa. Been watching regularly circa 1980

[SAGirl]

A manatee?
Too big. Patty is tiny.

[cd021]

DM has a TON of upside. Just him rebounding from the PG position is a CRAZY plus. I'm not even talking about everything else. Rebounding wins playoff games.

6 :depressed

[cd021]

I only got to see the first half before I had to go to work and was surprised he wound up with that stat line and a solid plus-minus.

His lack of shooting is an issue but one that obviously isn't going to get better over night. I think, in time, he could be a solid catch and shoot player which opens up his drive game. Defensively he's largely been pretty good and his rebounding is obviously a plus.

For a 29th pick, I really like his upside and don't think its far fetched that he could end up being a starting caliber PG by year 4.

[wildbill2u]

i wouldn't use the analogy of a deer caught in the headlights for murray because that suggests fear and that is a quality that murray does not have. i would, instead, suggest that he is more like a yearling in that he just seems clumsy sometimes and lacking in "corporate knowledge", all fixable traits.

Neither the Barkley quote nor my comments had anything to do with Murray acting like a "deer in the headlights'" as I understand the term. Murray doesn't freeze on the floor. Quite the opposite. He is active and athletic, moreso than anyone on the roster. But that really isn't the question I raised.

I see a young man with very limited BB IQ so he will be learning the ropes of a PG that he should have learned by staying in college. He can defend and rebound. His ball handling is terrible for a PG who will have to handle the ball, direct the offense and make crucial passes. HIs passing stinks, especially when he gets himself in trouble by trying to do the one thing that probably made him a star in high school--driving into the lane.


while I also question whether his outside shooting is up to NBA standards, Kwahi has showed us that shooting can be unbelievably improved by hard work, repetion to the point where muscle memory takes over. Gervin used to shoot 500 balls a day in practice and I bet Kwahi has taken that lesson to heart. Folks used to really criticize Parker for a weak outside shot and he worked to develop a better shot late in his career and became a decent short and 3 range shooter. So I'm willing to give him a lot of slack if he is putting in the work to develop his outside shooting.

Got to thinking while writing the above and right now, I'd like to put Simmons on the floor before Murray because Simmons is a more developed player.

[TD 21]

If a player is to become one of significance, no matter how raw they are, I'm a big believer in seeing early glimpses and we've seen some of those in his case. But between the extremely loose handle and the non existent jump shot, I can't remember a PG like this being successful and the fact that he's shown no improvement in either area 16 months after being drafted doesn't inspire confidence.

Smart, Carter-Williams, Dunn, Mudiay, Payton, Exum, are all recent examples of hyped PG's who struggled in at least one of these areas (all were at least willing jump shooters though) and right now Payton is the only starter and he's a low end one at that.

His play making is better than advertised, but he doesn't have the vision of Wall, Rubio or Rondo. He's athletic, but not to the extent of Westbrook, Wall or pre injuries Rose, so what is he? And does it make sense to spend a good portion of Leonard's prime and the remainder of Aldridge's, finding out? Worse yet, does the lack of so much as a competent starting PG become the impetus for Leonard not re-signing?

[wildbill2u]

[COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]


some excellent points, especially the effect of the team dependence on his development during the prime Kwahi years. And the prospect that the lack of a competent PG (if he doesn't develop as hoped) might lead Kwahi to leave is really scary.

[dabom]

Kawhi leaving. :lmao

[SAGirl]

All good points TD 21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781). Sharp comments.

I will say this, though I know the diehard fans like duncan2k5 and manybe some others will not grasp it. If he was really awesome, he would have taken that starting spot when he got the opportunity and ran away with it. He only had to beat a guy who was injured coming back at 35 who said he would do anything Pop wanted him to, and Patty, who is a shooter and not a playmaker in the traditional sense or PnR ballhandler who can finish in the paint... just not his game. Bryn Forbes is not that guy either. It was really weak competition for him to take that spot and hold on to it.

Once upon a time, Tony arrived in what I hear from reference, was a weak guard rotation. He took the spot and ran away with it. Once upon a time, Kawhi did the same with a forward rotation.

This season he really had the opportunity. It wasn't denied to him. He started games and as you said the inability to shoot is the most problematic, and on top of that the Spurs are a post oriented slow paced team, so that gets exposed all the time.

Right now, he's very well suited to the bench crew which plays faster and more to his strengths. One can only hope he continues to improve and add things. Certainly if he stays as he is, it's just not enough.

[duncan2k5]

Watching Murray play a lot of minutes against OKC gave him an opportunity to display his game, flaws and all. He reminds me of a quote I heard Sir Charles Barkley say about young athletes with no particular skill sets, " http://www.great-quotes.com/static/images/authors/190485-small.jpg (http://www.great-quotes.com/quotes/author/Charles/Barkley)
0



"They run like deer, jump like deer and think like deer. But if you notice, not many deer play in the NBA for long" (http://www.great-quotes.com/quote/117564) — Charles Barkley.

(http://www.great-quotes.com/quotes/author/Charles/Barkley)Once when Murray was bringing the ball up the court, he looked like an impala, bounding way up in the air several feet off the ground and carrying his dribble up as high as his head. I remembered Barkley's quote and thought, "What the Fuck is he doing way up there and what will he do with the ball." What was he thinking? But it was illustrative of something I've been commenting on since the first day we got a look at him. He dribbles the ball really really high, liking to take off on a drive with the ball up near his shoulder. The problem with that in the NBA is that guys are simply stripping him or stealing the ball a lot. Or he loses control once he gets into the paint with bodies all around trying to get that ball from him. You never saw Parker with that trouble. It was amazing how Tony could slither in among all those bigs and still get a shot off.

Most of his points come off those drives and he hasn't really developed his outside shooting. He sometimes still shoots from outside with that funny motion that gives a sideways rotation to the ball. Can't stick in this league with that form. One airball three from the end of the game was horribly off target with no excuse of anyone being near him to affect his shot. Calling Chip!

PGs really need to pass to the open man in the short corner 3 spot at the end of close games. Tried to hero ball it with a drive a time or two into crowds without noticing his team mates. Granted it takes a while, but he still thinks of himself as the prime shooter when he is in the game. He hasn't earned that yet IMO>

SO THE QUESTION IS THIS : MURRAY SHOWS FLASHES OF ATHLETICISM LIKE A DEER, BUT IS MURRAY THE PG FOR THE FUTURE?

completely disagree with him thinking he is the prime shooter...HE BARELY TAKES SHOTS! dude is really passive...parker is an example of a shoot first pg...thats who murray needs to be more like...he needs to watch film of how aggressive young parker was going to the rim...murray kinda just brings up the ball and passes it around the perimeter...tony knows the system so he looks better running the offense...murray doesnt have that experience yet...give it time...

on another note, we are bashing murray because he isnt as good as a HOF level PG...come on now...what rookie/2nd year PG is better than young parker?

thirdly parker had his own issues...no player is perfect (except kawhi)

[skulls138]

Being physically gifted like that can make a person rely on it too much and a seasoned player can exploit that. Hes got to keep on believing, be patient and learn.

[duncan2k5]

All good points TD 21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781). Sharp comments.

I will say this, though I know the diehard fans like duncan2k5 and manybe some others will not grasp it. If he was really awesome, he would have taken that starting spot when he got the opportunity and ran away with it. He only had to beat a guy who was injured coming back at 35 who said he would do anything Pop wanted him to, and Patty, who is a shooter and not a playmaker in the traditional sense or PnR ballhandler who can finish in the paint... just not his game. Bryn Forbes is not that guy either. It was really weak competition for him to take that spot and hold on to it.

Once upon a time, Tony arrived in what I hear from reference, was a weak guard rotation. He took the spot and ran away with it. Once upon a time, Kawhi did the same with a forward rotation.

This season he really had the opportunity. It wasn't denied to him. He started games and as you said the inability to shoot is the most problematic, and on top of that the Spurs are a post oriented slow paced team, so that gets exposed all the time.

Right now, he's very well suited to the bench crew which plays faster and more to his strengths. One can only hope he continues to improve and add things. Certainly if he stays as he is, it's just not enough.

he was playing well until Pop decided Patty would be better vs golden state...murray never recovered...combine that with murray still having a very short leash, he stopped being aggressive like he was at the start of the season...hold murray to the same standard as kyle...kyle himself said him starting and not being yanked for every mistake this season is what helped him to improve...murray is younger...why do ppl think he doesnt get affected by these things?

[wildbill2u]

Kawhi leaving. :lmao

If Tim Duncan could think of leaving the Spurs after winning Championships and a great relationship with team mates and coach, then any player such as Kwahi might look for greener pastures if no championship is in sight for the rest of his career in SA.

[dabom]

If Tim Duncan could think of leaving the Spurs after winning Championships and a great relationship with team mates and coach, then any player such as Kwahi might look for greener pastures if no championship is in sight for the rest of his career in SA.

Every player is not the same faggot. :lmao

[Ocotillo]

All good points TD 21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781).
Right now, he's very well suited to the bench crew which plays faster and more to his strengths. One can only hope he continues to improve and add things. Certainly if he stays as he is, it's just not enough.

If he can get a semi-decent shot and better handles, I had thought he was more of a Manu replacement as 6th man rather than the next point guard. With pre-injury Tony sticking around, I thought that was where they were headed with him although I had high hopes because of his length that he could be the next starting point guard.

[John B]

Seems obvious to me that he focused on putting on muscle, improving his defense, and rebounding. He needs work on his shot and understanding of the offense but PG is the most complicated position to learn in the NBA. He has made noticeable improvements.

But with Kawhi able to play point forward, I think lock-on defense is the first thing Murray needs to develop that could be most valuable to the team against Curry, Westbrook and CP3 who TP could have difficulty guarding. Murray/Green/Kawhi/Gay/LMA. There should be enough scoring there without expecting too much offense from Murray but maybe to knock those open 3’s. And with Gay, and the development of Green’s ball handling should help. I think continue to develop great defense, lock-on defender helps the Spurs the most. :flag:

[BackHome]

He is not a PG just make him a SG and be done with it. This summer just work on side three and fake pump and take it to the rim and play good defense. Done

[skulls138]

SG an S? Not good.

[Ice009]

All Murray needs is confidence in his jump shot. It's that simple. If he can start shooting with confidence and hitting shots, that'll unlock his game to higher levels.

[SpursforSix]

All Murray needs is confidence in his jump shot. It's that simple. If he can start shooting with confidence and hitting shots, that'll unlock his game to higher levels.

I wish that was true. I'm as guilty as anyone in throwing false hopes on Spurs draft picks. Thinking that PATFO pulled a fast one and found a diamond in the rough. And that they're all on the verge of being relevant. But imo, that's not Murray. Should have recognized it sooner. There aren't very many players than all of a sudden become great ball handlers after a couple of years in the NBA. The comparisons to Parker are ridiculous. He had elite skills when he was picked up. Just needed to work on incorporating them into the NBA game. That's not Murray.

So in my mind, he'll never be a good point guard option. And at this point, to the eye, he looks like a pretty average SG.

He has some flashes here and there but so do most NBA 1st round picks.

To sum it up, I think he can have a decent career in the NBA but he's nothing special.

[wildbill2u]

All Murray needs is confidence in his jump shot. It's that simple. If he can start shooting with confidence and hitting shots, that'll unlock his game to higher levels.

If all it took was confidence, I would have been an NBA player. :downspin:

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Watching Murray play a lot of minutes against OKC gave him an opportunity to display his game, flaws and all. He reminds me of a quote I heard Sir Charles Barkley say about young athletes with no particular skill sets, " http://www.great-quotes.com/static/images/authors/190485-small.jpg (http://www.great-quotes.com/quotes/author/Charles/Barkley)
0



"They run like deer, jump like deer and think like deer. But if you notice, not many deer play in the NBA for long" (http://www.great-quotes.com/quote/117564) — Charles Barkley.

(http://www.great-quotes.com/quotes/author/Charles/Barkley)Once when Murray was bringing the ball up the court, he looked like an impala, bounding way up in the air several feet off the ground and carrying his dribble up as high as his head. I remembered Barkley's quote and thought, "What the Fuck is he doing way up there and what will he do with the ball." What was he thinking? But it was illustrative of something I've been commenting on since the first day we got a look at him. He dribbles the ball really really high, liking to take off on a drive with the ball up near his shoulder. The problem with that in the NBA is that guys are simply stripping him or stealing the ball a lot. Or he loses control once he gets into the paint with bodies all around trying to get that ball from him. You never saw Parker with that trouble. It was amazing how Tony could slither in among all those bigs and still get a shot off.

Most of his points come off those drives and he hasn't really developed his outside shooting. He sometimes still shoots from outside with that funny motion that gives a sideways rotation to the ball. Can't stick in this league with that form. One airball three from the end of the game was horribly off target with no excuse of anyone being near him to affect his shot. Calling Chip!

PGs really need to pass to the open man in the short corner 3 spot at the end of close games. Tried to hero ball it with a drive a time or two into crowds without noticing his team mates. Granted it takes a while, but he still thinks of himself as the prime shooter when he is in the game. He hasn't earned that yet IMO>

SO THE QUESTION IS THIS : MURRAY SHOWS FLASHES OF ATHLETICISM LIKE A DEER, BUT IS MURRAY THE PG FOR THE FUTURE?


Murray definitely needs to develop his game. He has the natural skillset to be great, but right now his shot is terrible and he can't run the offense to save his life. I had similar takeaways from the OKC game...I love the kid's natural ability, but he needs to really hone his game if he's going to be great.

But his ceiling is limitless...if he can adopt the Kawhi work ethic he can be great. I'm concerned he's not capable of matching that sort of discipline level in order to get better...but time will tell. I'd love to see him in the ASG in 3 years due to him working his arse off and reaching his potential.

[tonight...you]

If all it took was confidence, I would have been an NBA player. :downspin:
Believe dat.

[tonight...you]

Murray definitely needs to develop his game. He has the natural skillset to be great, but right now his shot is terrible and he can't run the offense to save his life. I had similar takeaways from the OKC game...I love the kid's natural ability, but he needs to really hone his game if he's going to be great.

But his ceiling is limitless...if he can adopt the Kawhi work ethic he can be great. I'm concerned he's not capable of matching that sort of discipline level in order to get better...but time will tell. I'd love to see him in the ASG in 3 years due to him working his arse off and reaching his potential.
He appears to have Kawhi's work ethic.
What he needs is a Chad Forcier, getting on him about the relevant things like he did with Kawhi.

That man needs to live in Chip's house through the whole off-season along with a host of other things, but that shot has to improve first and foremost.

[tholdren]

He appears to have Kawhi's work ethic.
What he needs is a Chad Forcier, getting on him about the relevant things like he did with Kawhi.

That man needs to live in Chip's house through the whole off-season along with a host of other things, but that shot has to improve first and foremost.

It wont fix stupid

[tonight...you]

It wont fix stupid
Stupid is hard to fix, this is true, but discipline and repeated experience of one's limitations can drive even a stupid person onto a successful path.
Let's just say I have hope, but I'm not placing any money on such things coming to fruition, but this is what we have and there are traits in him that bring things such as hope.

Who thought Kawhi was going to be a Top 5 player in the NBA until after watching him progress beyond what most thought he could reach?

That's work ethic and discipline along with God gifted... stuff.

[dabom]

Stupid is hard to fix, this is true, but discipline and repeated experience of one's limitations can drive even a stupid person onto a successful path.
Let's just day I have hope, but I'm not placing any money on such things coming to fruition, but this is what we have and there are traits in him that bring things such as hope.

Who thought Kawhi was going to be a Top 5 player in the NBA until after watching him progress beyond what most thought he could reach?

That's work ethic and discipline along with God gifted... stuff.

DM ain't stupid. Don't argue that lame.

[tonight...you]

DM ain't stupid. Don't argue that lame.
I only argued the point, not the person and I believe my argument was cogent and correct, although not without exceptions.

[tholdren]

DM ain't stupid. Don't argue that lame.

Lol dumb as a rock. Takes terrible shots, cant dribble, cant initiate offense. Poor mans version of roberson

[dabom]

I only argued the point, not the person and I believe my argument was cogent and correct, although not without exceptions.

You not refuting him makes it look like he's correct.

[dabom]

Lol dumb as a rock. Takes terrible shots, cant dribble, cant initiate offense. Poor mans version of roberson

Now the kid feels empowered. :lol

[tonight...you]

Lol dumb as a rock. Takes terrible shots, cant dribble, cant initiate offense. Poor mans version of roberson
Mmmm... more like a kid relying upon pure instincts and no real knowledge of the Game.
That can be translated as Game Dumb, but he has a lot of seasoning left to go and you can see he wants to get it.

If he can't, he's dumb. If he can... we restart this conversation.

[tonight...you]

You not refuting him makes it look like he's correct.
Only to the ignorant and easily led.
And who really cares about them?

[tholdren]

Mmmm... more like a kid relying upon pure instincts and no real knowledge of the Game.
That can be translated as Game Dumb, but he has a lot of seasoning left to go and you can see he wants to get it.

If he can't, he's dumb. If he can... we restart this conversation.

So then couldnt anyone be in the nba if its just about experience and reps?

[dabom]

Only to to the ignorant and easily led.
And who really cares about them?

You're the one debating him.

[tholdren]

Now the kid feels empowered. :lol

Man you are really mad.... and wrong.... too bad you keep posting

[tonight...you]

You're the one debating him.
And you're debating me. See how it goes?

[tholdren]

You're the one debating him.

Lol reading comprehension of daboom is worse than murrays game

[dabom]

And you're debating me. See how it goes?

But I don't care about him. :lol

[tonight...you]

So then couldnt anyone be in the nba if its just about experience and reps?
Is it just about that? Did I say that? The kid has a special skill-set and a frame and the right athleticism that one in a million, if not more, have.
I mean, shit, why aren't you somewhere in the system of the NBA, if you're so smart? What went wrong for you?

Surely you tried to get in, right?

[tonight...you]

But I don't care about him. :lol
But you care about me so much that you care about me debating him?



Thank you.

[tholdren]

Is it just about that? Did I say that? The kid has a special skill-set and a frame and the right athleticism that one in a million, if not more, have.
I mean, shit, why aren't you somewhere in the system of the NBA, if you're so smart? What went wrong for you?

Surely you tried to get in, right?

What is his skillset?

[dabom]

But you care about me so much that you care about me debating him?



Thank you.

More not caring about him and more about people not talking shiz about DM but think go ahead with that one too. :tu

[tholdren]

More not caring about him and more about people not talking shiz about DM but think go ahead with that one too. :tu

Booo hoooooo

[tonight...you]

More not caring about him and more about people not talking shiz about DM but think go ahead with that one too. :tu
Ah.. so you're like the Leave Britney Alone guy:
https://media.giphy.com/media/f7MoTodygKd56/giphy.gif
https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnrhzrBtw61qc9z2jo1_400.gif

[dabom]

Nope.

[tonight...you]

What is his skillset?
That is a good question.
I would say his D and rebounding is where he hangs his hat.
Even then, he's not great. I would further expand upon that and growth in (most hopefully) shooting. And then bringing the TO/Assist ratio to a much better level.
Old boy has some work to do.

[tonight...you]

Nope.
Then stop portraying yourself as such and argue merits and bring some shit to the program instead of: "I have smart shit to say, but I wont."

[dabom]

Ah.. so you're like the Leave Britney Alone guy:
https://media.giphy.com/media/f7MoTodygKd56/giphy.gif
https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnrhzrBtw61qc9z2jo1_400.gif


Nope.


Then stop portraying yourself as such and argue merits and bring some shit to the program instead of: "I have smart shit to say, but I wont."

I didn't know I needed to argue that.

[tonight...you]

I didn't know I needed to argue that.
You entered an argument, and you represented yourself as such. WTF did you think you needed to happen?
You show up and everyone is happy?

[dabom]

You entered an argument, WTF did you think you needed to happen?
You show up and everyone is happy?

Pretty much.

[tonight...you]

Pretty much.
While over 3 quarters of the board think you're a jinx along the the line of an @AmusedDaysomething Game thread.

I challenge you to drum up any kind of support.

You're a resident Joke. Act like it, clown.

[dabom]

While over 3 quarters of the board think you're a jinx along the the line of an @AmusedDaysomething Game thread.

I challenge you to drum up any kind of support.

You're a resident Joke. Act like it, clown.

Stop PMs'ing all over the boards. :lmao

[dabom]

Faggot. :lmao

[tonight...you]

Stop PMs'ing all over the boards. :lmao
I have not 1 PM in my entire business here.
Not 1, CLOWN.

[tonight...you]

Faggot. :lmao
No need to project.

[dabom]

I have not 1 PM in my entire business here.
Not 1, CLOWN.

I wasn't even attacking you, but that's over, faggot. :lol

You're not me. Everyone can't be the cool kid. :tu

[tonight...you]

I wasn't even attacking you, but that's over, faggot. :lol

You're not me. Everyone can't be the cool kid. :tu
Is that what you're trying to attain? Cool Kid? Wow...
Wow.

[dabom]

No need to project.

Real life homo. Sorry for outing ya bro. :lol

[tonight...you]

Real life homo. Sorry for outing ya bro. :lol
Love it.

[dabom]

Is that what you're trying to attain? Cool Kid? Wow...
Wow.

I'm not trying to. Learn the difference. :lmao

[tonight...you]

I'm not trying to. Learn the difference. :lmao
Learn what?
How most here think you're a scrub?

Who here likes you?

I CALL A ROLL CALL:
WHO HERE EVEN RESPECTS A WORD DABOM HAS WRITTEN IN THE LAST YEAR?
WHO HERE LIKES DABOM?

Is there any single person that can give a vote?

I'm asking for a non-burner account.

Just one.


Just one...






Let's see.

[dabom]

Learn what?
How most here think you're a scrub?

Who here likes you?

I CALL A ROLL CALL:
WHO HERE EVEN RESPECTS A WORD DABOM HAS WRITTEN IN THE LAST YEAR?
WHO HERE LIKES DABOM?

Is there any single person that can give a vote?

I'm asking for a non-burner account.

Just one.


Just one...






Let's see.

Would actually work but you actually need to be someone first.

[dabom]

It's like Obama vs a burner twitter account. You ain't got the magnitude.

[tonight...you]

Would actually work but you actually need to be someone first.
I am someone.

And nobody will come to bat for you.

[tonight...you]

It's like Obama vs a burner twitter account. You ain't got the magnitude.
Nobody will come to bat for you.

[dabom]

I am someone.

And nobody will come to bat for you.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9c/9c71a6f9bd4a34044b5b935503f8837e9253c4ec4e059f9513 6eed23fdb6b8cf.jpg

[tonight...you]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9c/9c71a6f9bd4a34044b5b935503f8837e9253c4ec4e059f9513 6eed23fdb6b8cf.jpg
Let's sit back and watch the festivities.

[dabom]

I'm outy. Nothing to gain picking on posters.

[tonight...you]

I'm outy. Nothing to gain picking on posters.
COWARD

[tonight...you]

This is hilarious. I'm a nobody and I just drove dabom off the interwebs out of fear.

Sweet.

[tonight...you]

This is hilarious. I'm a nobody and I just drove dabom (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=47543) off the interwebs out of fear.

Sweet.
Shut tholdren up too.

Easy Peasy.

[SAGirl]

tonight...you doing the lord's work :tu

[Cry Havoc]

The last 2.5 pages of this "basketball" discussion have contained absolutely no references to basketball.

What an amazing slapfight.

[SAGirl]

The last 2.5 pages of this "basketball" discussion have contained absolutely no references to basketball.

What an amazing slapfight.
What have you been up to Cry Havoc?
I miss your game grades a lot.:toast

[Cry Havoc]

What have you been up to Cry Havoc?
I miss your game grades a lot.:toast

Haha busy with work and life. :tu

[tholdren]

Shut tholdren up too.

Easy Peasy.

Actually you just got salty w daboom and didnt answer... go back and read

[tonight...you]

Actually you just got salty w daboom and didnt answer... go back and read
:lol Sure... That's it.

[tonight...you]

The last 2.5 pages of this "basketball" discussion have contained absolutely no references to basketball.

What an amazing slapfight.
I blame society... and myself.

[tholdren]

:lol Sure... That's it.

Wow great

[tonight...you]

Wow great
That didn't even make sense. Not that I was expecting much from you anyways...

[tholdren]

That didn't even make sense. Not that I was expecting much from you anyways...

Yet you continue to respond? That doesnt make sense

[tonight...you]

Yet you continue to respond? That doesnt make sense
Yet you do also? That makes no sense, but I can put together a sentence without fucking it up.
Amazing.

[tholdren]

Yet you do also? That makes no sense, but I can put together a sentence without fucking it up.
Amazing.

Not

[tonight...you]

Not
You present your arguments well.
How dare I debate, or argue with someone so astute and eloquent?

"Not"

[SAGirl]

Murray not sighted until garbage time. Humbling.

[spursistan]

Murray not sighted until garbage time. Humbling.
Didn't grab his opportunity when Parker was out and Mills was sucking up storm by being virtually unplayable in some games..Patty is positively regressing back the mean shooting-wise and Tony returned and is looking decent while Forbes and BP3 are perfect in their niche..

Murray needed to blow our that easy competition early in the season, and he failed..It is hard to see him climb back in the guard rotation hierarchy. Will probably only see him in extended time in DNP-rest games of Parker or if the latter gets injured again.

[cd98]

Murray needs more time in the G League. I’m sure he’ll be headed there soon. He needs a jump shot to get minutes on this Spur team.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He'll get his chance against Phoenix on Sat.

[Stabula]

Dejounte is going to be trash for another year or two. He'll be good eventually.

[duncan2k5]

Murray not sighted until garbage time. Humbling.

Told u... He won't ever get better... Pop doesn't see the bug picture... He isn't perfect... Tony and Patty have their issues guarding opposing point guards in the playoffs, and patty can't get open shots VS top teams... We NEED DJ to accelerate his growth for when we inevitably need him when Parker is on his last legs playoff time...

We will never know if DJ can be good or not because he doesn't even know when he is gonna play... Then when he is in he is scared to get aggressive and make mistakes...

NBA players go off rhythm... U want a 21 year old who barely played to take the starter role 5 games I to the season? It won't happen... He was unfairly benched for patty VS the warriors (unfairly because Patty was playing worse than him).

[cd98]

Told u... He won't ever get better... Pop doesn't see the bug picture... He isn't perfect... Tony and Patty have their issues guarding opposing point guards in the playoffs, and patty can't get open shots VS top teams... We NEED DJ to accelerate his growth for when we inevitably need him when Parker is on his last legs playoff time...

We will never know if DJ can be good or not because he doesn't even know when he is gonna play... Then when he is in he is scared to get aggressive and make mistakes...

NBA players go off rhythm... U want a 21 year old who barely played to take the starter role 5 games I to the season? It won't happen... He was unfairly benched for patty VS the warriors (unfairly because Patty was playing worse than him).

Murray isn't a reliable shooter, so teams can rest poor defenders on him. Murray has poor judgment and poor passing and ball handling skills. Pop gave him a shot to deserve more minutes, but he was benched for Mills. In the NBA, and on the Spurs, you must earn your minutes. Both Parker and Mills, flawed as they are, will be much more reliable than Murray in the playoffs.

[Gagnrath]

So now that the personal insults and bickering are over, what I see with Murray is a guy who has some amazing physical gifts, that seriously needs to work on a few things. First I want to outline the things that he can work on without a team around him and playing time. A low, controlled dribble. Honestly just having him spend all day everyday for a week with a basketball, tell him no traveling keep it under your waist and that will help immensely. Also as often as she can Becky Hammon should just steal the ball from him and clown him about how can he keep his dribble in games if an old lady can steal it from him. A couple of days to weeks at worst and his ball control will improve a lot. His shooting form he can also improve on his own. Passing and knowing where to be take watching film and playing/practice time.

[sasaint]

I advocated starting Dijon LAST season, but I have repented. He has been on the team long enough to show some improvement in his handles, but he hasn't. I doubt he will. I can't imagine the coaching staff's not stressing the importance of that, yet there is no evidence that they have or that he has accepted the coaching. It is a real head-scratcher to me.

I am beginning to believe Dijon is one of Sir Charles' "deer" and the Spurs would be better off trading him before his play screams "BUST."

[SpursforSix]

I advocated starting Dijon LAST season, but I have repented. He has been on the team long enough to show some improvement in his handles, but he hasn't. I doubt he will. I can't imagine the coaching staff's not stressing the importance of that, yet there is no evidence that they have or that he has accepted the coaching. It is a real head-scratcher to me.

I am beginning to believe Dijon is one of Sir Charles' "deer" and the Spurs would be better off trading him before his play screams "BUST."

It's not a head scratcher to me. He just doesn't have the handles. Being an elite ball handler requires more than just working on it. Sure...anyone can get better if the practice. But no matter how much work one puts in, if you don't have it, you don't have it. And surely if you don't have it at his age, no amount of work will make him elite.

It's not different than Parker not being a great assist guy or three point shooter. Either you have something that makes you elite or you don't. And if you do have that something, you have to work your ass off to put yourself above the others.

In any event...as much hope as I had for Murray...he's just an average NBA player.

[sasaint]

It's not a head scratcher to me. He just doesn't have the handles. Being an elite ball handler requires more than just working on it. Sure...anyone can get better if the practice. But no matter how much work one puts in, if you don't have it, you don't have it. And surely if you don't have it at his age, no amount of work will make him elite.

It's not different than Parker not being a great assist guy or three point shooter. Either you have something that makes you elite or you don't. And if you do have that something, you have to work your ass off to put yourself above the others.

In any event...as much hope as I had for Murray...he's just an average NBA player.

Not sure he is even average at this point. He has good athleticism that enables him to make some plays others can't, but his basketball skills are shaky at best. An NBA guard - especially a PG - that can't shoot or dribble is hardly average.

[tholdren]

Not sure he is even average at this point. He has good athleticism that enables him to make some plays others can't, but his basketball skills are shaky at best. An NBA guard - especially a PG - that can't shoot or dribble is hardly average.

His basketball skills are terrible. Dumber than a rock

[duncan2k5]

Murray isn't a reliable shooter, so teams can rest poor defenders on him. Murray has poor judgment and poor passing and ball handling skills. Pop gave him a shot to deserve more minutes, but he was benched for Mills. In the NBA, and on the Spurs, you must earn your minutes. Both Parker and Mills, flawed as they are, will be much more reliable than Murray in the playoffs.

That's a bad take... Mills didn't earn his playing time... He was given his playing time... He was considerably worse than Murray at the start of the season...

And the point is that if we judge players by their play when they're rookies or 2nd year players, that's a disservice... Kawaii wouldn't be an MVP level player, LeBron wouldn't be good enough to take his team to the playoffs, etc... U have to play them and allow them to grow... Tony couldn't shoot consistently for damn near ten years... The objective is to let Murray grow so by time playoff time comes and we need him (which we will... TRUST ME), he will have game experience and will have the confidence he needs... Players don't magically get better by sitting on the bench or playing in practice... You have to play the high intensity of real NBA games

And patty having bad defense is much more of a hurt to the team than Murray not having a reliable jumper... Because he still plays consistent defense, can still drive to the rim, and he IS shooting 33% from three... I'd take that over mills any day... Mills has been horrible in the postseason for us... WTF does he deserve? Murray has a much higher ceiling than mills, and we definitely won't win shit this year leaning on mills and Parker

[duncan2k5]

Hurray has good dribbling skills... Really good... He just needs better control of it... So there is room to improve... But yall make it sound like he is Danny Green out there dribbling.... The dude had a nice crossover since high school... They used to compare him to Crawford... But like I said he may have the moves, but not the control... But he IS 21...ita not as if we are trying to teach a 30 year old to dribble...

[cd98]

That's a bad take... Mills didn't earn his playing time... He was given his playing time... He was considerably worse than Murray at the start of the season...

And the point is that if we judge players by their play when they're rookies or 2nd year players, that's a disservice... Kawaii wouldn't be an MVP level player, LeBron wouldn't be good enough to take his team to the playoffs, etc... U have to play them and allow them to grow... Tony couldn't shoot consistently for damn near ten years... The objective is to let Murray grow so by time playoff time comes and we need him (which we will... TRUST ME), he will have game experience and will have the confidence he needs... Players don't magically get better by sitting on the bench or playing in practice... You have to play the high intensity of real NBA games

And patty having bad defense is much more of a hurt to the team than Murray not having a reliable jumper... Because he still plays consistent defense, can still drive to the rim, and he IS shooting 33% from three... I'd take that over mills any day... Mills has been horrible in the postseason for us... WTF does he deserve? Murray has a much higher ceiling than mills, and we definitely won't win shit this year leaning on mills and Parker

You need to take the homer glasses off. Patty earned his minutes. He was glued to the bench for more than a year when he first joined the Spurs. And your reversionary history is laughable. Mills was solid in the playoffs in 2014. Yes he’s had ups and downs since, but not Murray downs. He never got his pocket picked like Murray in the playoffs. And your logic on 2nd year player Kawhi, WTF, Kawhi was one of the best players on the roster as a rookie. Murray is barely good enough to be on the roster. He is horrible at shooting, dribbling, and playmaking and finishing at the rim. He gets a few rebounds, but that’s about it. We all hope he improves but you are dillusional if you think Murray is better than Mills or a regressing Parker, he’s not.

[bklynspursfan]

Hurray has good dribbling skills... Really good... He just needs better control of it... So there is room to improve... But yall make it sound like he is Danny Green out there dribbling.... The dude had a nice crossover since high school... They used to compare him to Crawford... But like I said he may have the moves, but not the control... But he IS 21...ita not as if we are trying to teach a 30 year old to dribble...

He dribbles way too hard/high at times. Should keep the ball lower, it'll make it tougher to get stripped. Also, he's not Danny Green (who also can crossover the ball, it's very common these days), but also Green isn't a PG with the ball in his hands a lot out there, so dribbling for him isn't as important, tho he's gotten much better at it.

Never heard the comparison to Crawford, and maybe it was a legit one at a High School level, but this is the NBA now. He's nowhere near the ball handler Crawford is.

[SpursforSix]

Anyone...name a player or two who came into the NBA and then practiced so hard that they became a top shelf ball handler?

[Raven]

if he'll be healthy, he'll be great soon enough.

[Gagnrath]

Hurray has good dribbling skills... Really good... He just needs better control of it... So there is room to improve... But yall make it sound like he is Danny Green out there dribbling.... The dude had a nice crossover since high school... They used to compare him to Crawford... But like I said he may have the moves, but not the control... But he IS 21...ita not as if we are trying to teach a 30 year old to dribble...

He has some decent moves but also has some bad habits. His crossover is mainly due to first step quickness. That's the biggest part of why I really want him to just work on having good ball control become habitual. When you get used to having your dribble at all times your jogging pace doesn't change between having the ball and not having it. Changing pace and direction doesn't typically involve a higher bounce on that dribble. An accurate one handed push pass either in air or as a bounce pass doesn't really mean much of a gather at all so its very fast. All of the ball work will also notably increase hand and wrist strength incrementally which helps with shooting range and touch as hand and wrist strength mean that your arms are doing less of the work and increasing fine control. (Won't fix bad form but makes form better/easier once you are working on it). It also helps keep you from getting stripped and would help his already good for position rebounding. Essentially as long as someone is there to remind him keep it low and don't carry there is no downside to having a professional ball player constantly dribbling throughout the day.

[wildbill2u]

He dribbles way too hard/high at times. Should keep the ball lower, it'll make it tougher to get stripped. Also, he's not Danny Green (who also can crossover the ball, it's very common these days), but also Green isn't a PG with the ball in his hands a lot out there, so dribbling for him isn't as important, tho he's gotten much better at it.

Never heard the comparison to Crawford, and maybe it was a legit one at a High School level, but this is the NBA now. He's nowhere near the ball handler Crawford is.

That's been my take and what I opened this thread with. I predicted he would have a problem with strips and steals once the real NBA players took a look at his handle and started taking advantage. Put a guy like Kwathi on him and he'll be in real trouble. I suspect they are seeing this in practice.

The thing is, all of us started bouncing the ball around our house as children. I have no idea why he dribbles so high, maybe his body grew tall fast and his dribble extended, but it is obviously an ingrained habit since childhood. I don't know if you can change that.

[tholdren]

Anyone...name a player or two who came into the NBA and then practiced so hard that they became a top shelf ball handler?

Anyone.... name a pg drafted in the first rd, or at all, that couldnt dribble

[duncan2k5]

He dribbles way too hard/high at times. Should keep the ball lower, it'll make it tougher to get stripped. Also, he's not Danny Green (who also can crossover the ball, it's very common these days), but also Green isn't a PG with the ball in his hands a lot out there, so dribbling for him isn't as important, tho he's gotten much better at it.

Never heard the comparison to Crawford, and maybe it was a legit one at a High School level, but this is the NBA now. He's nowhere near the ball handler Crawford is.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/dejounte-murray

Look at his draft profile... They compare him to Crawford and talk about his dribbling ability... He has skills... Trust me... There is tape on him... So he isn't incapable... He just needs to learn to protect the ball more... That comes with learning and experience... Player tendencies, etc... But to say he is incapable of dribbling is a mischaracterization of the issues he has... I see some ppl say he is incapable of dribbling up the court... Based on him being stripped in the first half of an NBA playoff game as a rookie that didn't expect to play, and barely got playing time during the season, going up against the best pg defender in the league... But what happened after that? Pat Beverly NEVER stripped him again between that series and this year when they played... Players learn and adapt... Give it time... Give him actual playing time

[BackHome]

We gave Cory Joseph three years to learn how to dribble I’ll give Murray another year before I pass judgment

[tholdren]

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/dejounte-murray

Look at his draft profile... They compare him to Crawford and talk about his dribbling ability... He has skills... Trust me... There is tape on him... So he isn't incapable... He just needs to learn to protect the ball more... That comes with learning and experience... Player tendencies, etc... But to say he is incapable of dribbling is a mischaracterization of the issues he has... I see some ppl say he is incapable of dribbling up the court... Based on him being stripped in the first half of an NBA playoff game as a rookie that didn't expect to play, and barely got playing time during the season, going up against the best pg defender in the league... But what happened after that? Pat Beverly NEVER stripped him again between that series and this year when they played... Players learn and adapt... Give it time... Give him actual playing time

You can make a tape on anyone. Hes dumb. Kyrie would be awesome if he wasnt dumb.

[Russ]

Murray is simply bending down when he's challenged on the dribble now. Simple and obvious.

Problem solved.

[spursistan]

Right now, when given extended playing time, he simply what you call a junkballer who will stuff his line in the most unorthodox ways: awful floaters, fluke offensive rebounds..etc..

Not really impressed at all with his numbers..

[wildbill2u]

Lets hope for the best since we had such high hopes for him. Hmmm. I just used the word "hope" about Murry twice in one sentence. Oh well.

[duncan2k5]

You can make a tape on anyone. Hes dumb. Kyrie would be awesome if he wasnt dumb.

So Kyrie isn't awesome? Lmfao!

[duncan2k5]

Right now, when given extended playing time, he simply what you call a junkballer who will stuff his line in the most unorthodox ways: awful floaters, fluke offensive rebounds..etc..

Not really impressed at all with his numbers..

This makes no sense... Lolol... He has always been a good rebounder, but now they're flukes... As if he gets then by a weird bounce, and not him actually going to get them...

[DAF86]

Right now, when given extended playing time, he simply what you call a junkballer who will stuff his line in the most unorthodox ways: awful floaters, fluke offensive rebounds..etc..

Not really impressed at all with his numbers..

His offensive rebounds aren't flukes, tbh. He knows he has a size advantage over other NBA point guards so he's always sneakely staying near the rim looking to utilize this adavantage. It's not the best weapon to have as a PG on a team that favors transition D over offensive rebounds, but it is an established weapon of his, tbh.

[LakerHater]

His offensive rebounds aren't flukes, tbh. He knows he has a size advantage over other NBA point guards so he's always sneakely staying near the rim looking to utilize this adavantage. It's not the best weapon to have as a PG on a team that favors transition D over offensive rebounds, but it is an established weapon of his, tbh.
Dude, thats the ONE thing i love about his game!!

[tholdren]

So Kyrie isn't awesome? Lmfao!

Heres your nba caliber players LaMelo has the potential to play in the NBA someday, especially if he were on a more traditional development path. Even so, his shot selection is questionable and he has struggled to impact winning. LaMelo is a career 30 percent 3-point shooter, according to Krossover data (42 games and 605 attempts....

30 percent from 3? Not even college potential

[duncan2k5]

Heres your nba caliber players LaMelo has the potential to play in the NBA someday, especially if he were on a more traditional development path. Even so, his shot selection is questionable and he has struggled to impact winning. LaMelo is a career 30 percent 3-point shooter, according to Krossover data (42 games and 605 attempts....

30 percent from 3? Not even college potential

Brothers... What are u talking about? Who gives a sh*to about lamelo?

[cd98]

Murray's job just got easier. Just pass the ball to Kawhi and get out of the way.

[jermaine]

When this lil nigga was posting # videos about grinding all summer, what was he working on!?! Rebounding an 1 hand floaters(which he still sucks at)!! I really can't see what tbis dude has improved on that much. I mean I like his defense, but that's about it. He blow more layups than my 12yr old son!

[BD24]

As a fan of the kid it is a bit disappointing that he didn’t seem to work on his jumper too much this summer. That is his most needed area of improvement.to be a decent guard in today’s league u need at least a decent jumper

[hater]

Anyone...name a player or two who came into the NBA and then practiced so hard that they became a top shelf ball handler?

J j barea

[SpursforSix]

J j barea

I had to go back and look at old videos. But he was already a good ball handler in college.

Is he considered "top shelf" today? I don't know.

[hater]

I had to go back and look at old videos. But he was already a good ball handler in college.

Is he considered "top shelf" today? I don't know.

Imo he is

If barea was 4 inches talker hed be a perenial allstar

[tholdren]

Shittiest pg i have ever seen.

[DenialTwist]

A team least Murray has an upside. Parker, Ginobili and Mills are all on the downside, slowly welcoming Father Time to take over.

[duncan2k5]

A team least Murray has an upside. Parker, Ginobili and Mills are all on the downside, slowly welcoming Father Time to take over.

[wildbill2u]

He's getting almost double the minutes this year already in far fewer games. Of course, last year he played a lot in Austin. His shooting percentages have gone DOWN this year, but I'm going to attribute that to the makeover on his shot that Chip has to be doing. His jumper was simply atrocious when he came into the league, giving a sideways spin to the ball instead of a front to back rotation. His rebounding is up some but with so many more minutes you have to expect that stat to increase.

So he is what he is at this point--a very young player drafted #29 with good athleticism and speed for an upside--but with some critical skills in ball handling, passing and shooting that really aren't up to NBA standards. Less than 20% of players drafted that low make it in this league. As Sir Charles said, "Deer can run fast and jump high, but you'll notice that very few deer play in the NBA."

We have a lot riding on this guy, if nothing but the unrealistic hopes of some fans because of our PG situation. So let's believe....er....hope... a little longer that he is the answer for the future.

[Oscar DeLa]

I don't know what it is but he's one of the worst players in the nba. Offensively he could be one of the worst guards in the history of pro basketball, he has nothing.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don't know what it is but he's one of the worst players in the nba. Offensively he could be one of the worst guards in the history of pro basketball, he has nothing.

There are quite a few examples of very young PGs entering the NBA without any developed skills and working hard to become solid by the end of their rookie contract - CoJo, Rozier, etc. Murray has length, speed and a quick first step, so he's got things to build on.

[tholdren]

Brothers... What are u talking about? Who gives a sh*to about lamelo?

Just a comment on todsys no talent no athleticism coming into the nba. When lebum goes this trash will sink

[SAGirl]

There are quite a few examples of very young PGs entering the NBA without any developed skills and working hard to become solid by the end of their rookie contract - CoJo, Rozier, etc. Murray has length, speed and a quick first step, so he's got things to build on.
Yep this is pretty much my view.

I still believe in him. He's still young with good physical tools and a disruptive motor. He's going to get better. It's really his shooting which is a concern but it doesn't have to be great, just good enough so that he can make shots if they sag off him or go under picks. He made some jumpshots last night. He's still working on improving its obvious.

[tonight...you]

A team least Murray has an upside. Parker, Ginobili and Mills are all on the downside, slowly welcoming Father Time to take over.
If he could just develop his jumper to darn good and lower his dribble... He could be something.
I'm patient. I'm willing to keep him getting minutes and learning the game and then live with Chip in the offseason- which should have started last offseason, tbh.

[boutons_deux]

it must be easier to dribble waist max, than shoulder high :)

his high dribble is a very bad habit.

[tonight...you]

it must be easier to dribble waist max, than shoulder high :)

his high dribble is a very bad habit.
Almost as bad as Lonzo's shot.
I get his bending down to force his dribble lower, but that's a compensating maneuver and if he's not there now, it's going to be a bitch for him to progress beyond.
I really want him to work on his shooting form more. His dribble, while problematic, is not as big an issue as his shooting. Even the ones he makes look so awful coming out of his hands.

I just don't understand Chip not getting into him last offseason.

[wildbill2u]

I am absolutly sure that Chip has to be working with Murray on his shot. It was so bad when he came in that his shooting form now looks much better in comparison. His shot selection is another matter, especially his penchant for dribbling into the lane without looking at how many defenders are waiting there. He has to look for his teammates rather than just bull ahead. No doubt that always worked for him before in high school and his freshman year in college, but he has to develop better recognition and BB IQ.

He's improving. He's getting lots more minutes. It''s just a matter of his learning curve. Parker came in younger and showed he was ready to take over very quickly the first year. Murray is now in his second year and not ready to take over.

[tonight...you]

I am absolutly sure that Chip has to be working with Murray on his shot. It was so bad when he came in that his shooting form now looks much better in comparison. His shot selection is another matter, especially his penchant for dribbling into the lane without looking at how many defenders are waiting there. He has to look for his teammates rather than just bull ahead. No doubt that always worked for him before in high school and his freshman year in college, but he has to develop better recognition and BB IQ.

He's improving. He's getting lots more minutes. It''s just a matter of his learning curve. Parker came in younger and showed he was ready to take over very quickly the first year. Murray is now in his second year and not ready to take over.
I savvy. I do disagree about improvement on his shooting form- it looks horrid and unsure, but sure- if that makes sense. Like his hubris wills it in, which is more than reminiscent of a young Manu...

All in all, I like the kid and I think, if he properly directs his enthusiastic work ethic in the right directions- he could be special.

[cd98]

Chip can help players, but some just don’t have the gift of a shooting touch. Not every player to come into the organization has turned into a great shooter. Parker, though a poor shooter the first few years, had decent form, and had to work hours upon hours to get an effective midrange jumper. He never got a great three point shot. Kawhi worked like crazy and his improvement in short time is unbelievable.

Nothing guarantees that Murray will develop like Tony or Kawhi and not like countless others that couldn’t develop enough under the Spurs regime.

[BD24]

He looked good last night. Once he develops a semi decent jumper teams are gonna be pissing their pants

[daslicer]

Chip can help players, but some just don’t have the gift of a shooting touch. Not every player to come into the organization has turned into a great shooter. Parker, though a poor shooter the first few years, had decent form, and had to work hours upon hours to get an effective midrange jumper. He never got a great three point shot. Kawhi worked like crazy and his improvement in short time is unbelievable.

Nothing guarantees that Murray will develop like Tony or Kawhi and not like countless others that couldn’t develop enough under the Spurs regime.

Pretty much this. Chip isn't a miracle worker than can make any random guy into a great jump shooter. Kawhi was able to fix his shot quickly because he is a special player and from what I heard Chip say that originally his previous shooting form wasn't too off from being fixed. It just needed to be slightly tweaked. Some guys can fix their shot overnight by intensely working on it during the summer and other guys it takes years to fix like you said with Tony. I heard in an interview with Kidd about a few weeks ago in which he stated that he worked hard throughout his whole entire career to be a better jumpshooter but he couldn't figure it out until he got to Dallas.

[cd021]

He's getting almost double the minutes this year already in far fewer games. Of course, last year he played a lot in Austin. His shooting percentages have gone DOWN this year, but I'm going to attribute that to the makeover on his shot that Chip has to be doing. His jumper was simply atrocious when he came into the league, giving a sideways spin to the ball instead of a front to back rotation. His rebounding is up some but with so many more minutes you have to expect that stat to increase.

So he is what he is at this point--a very young player drafted #29 with good athleticism and speed for an upside--but with some critical skills in ball handling, passing and shooting that really aren't up to NBA standards. Less than 20% of players drafted that low make it in this league. As Sir Charles said, "Deer can run fast and jump high, but you'll notice that very few deer play in the NBA."

We have a lot riding on this guy, if nothing but the unrealistic hopes of some fans because of our PG situation. So let's believe....er....hope... a little longer that he is the answer for the future.

His rebounding has jumped by 4 boards per minute per 36 which is pretty impressive.

I am a lot more bullish on his future, his biggest issues are his lack of a jumper and some loose ball handling but his rebounding and potential to be an above average defender along with an under rated passing ability are all strengths.

Shooting breakdown
(doesn't include the last two games, in the Dallas game he hit 3 layups and 3 jumpers which would raise his percentages some)

0-3- .555 (Below average)

3-10-.395 (Below average)

11-16-.235 (Below average)

17-22-.263 (Below average)

3pt- .333 (Below average)

His finishing is his best attribute but it's not league average at this point. Offensively he has a lot of work to do but I can see a path to him becoming an good offense player down the road. Continuing to work on his mid range particularly his pull up jumper, and finishing at the rim, along with those floaters- basically Tony Parker.

[tonight...you]

He looked good last night. Once he develops a semi decent jumper teams are gonna be pissing their pants
Although I made the same point earlier: He made 'em last night, but you cannot tell me his jumpers looked even remotely good.
That is what teams will be looking at and will be exploited these upcoming playoffs.

I'm hoping and wishing he finds a reliably good form this next off season.

[daslicer]

His rebounding has jumped by 4 boards per minute per 36 which is pretty impressive.

I am a lot more bullish on his future, his biggest issues are his lack of a jumper and some loose ball handling but his rebounding and potential to be an above average defender along with an under rated passing ability are all strengths.

Shooting breakdown
(doesn't include the last two games, in the Dallas game he hit 3 layups and 3 jumpers which would raise his percentages some)

0-3- .555 (Below average)

3-10-.395 (Below average)

11-16-.235 (Below average)

17-22-.263 (Below average)

3pt- .333 (Below average)

His finishing is his best attribute but it's not league average at this point. Offensively he has a lot of work to do but I can see a path to him becoming an good offense player down the road. Continuing to work on his mid range particularly his pull up jumper, and finishing at the rim, along with those floaters- basically Tony Parker.

He can never be like Parker. Parker's first step was lightening quick and he was the fastest player in the league for at least the first 10-12 years of his career.

[dabom]

He can never be like Parker. Parker's first step was lightening quick and he was the fastest player in the league for at least the first 10-12 years of his career.

Well that's just impossible.

[wildbill2u]

What is weird about Parker's career is that he made a living slithering in and around the bigs for layups--but didn't get a foul called for him very often while shooting. For him to get into the lane that often, over and over, without getting hit seems impossible, but he really must be extremely elusive in there.

[cd98]

What is weird about Parker's career is that he made a living slithering in and around the bigs for layups--but didn't get a foul called for him very often while shooting. For him to get into the lane that often, over and over, without getting hit seems impossible, but he really must be extremely elusive in there.
Pure speed. Once he could make a midrange and teams couldn’t clog the lane, he became unguardable with his combo of speed and elite level finishing.

[daslicer]

Well that's just impossible.

Name me a player that was quicker than Parker from '01-'12?

[daslicer]

What is weird about Parker's career is that he made a living slithering in and around the bigs for layups--but didn't get a foul called for him very often while shooting. For him to get into the lane that often, over and over, without getting hit seems impossible, but he really must be extremely elusive in there.

Parker had quick speed combined with great footwork and ball handling. That's why when he drove to the hole he was great at finishing. To see the difference look at a guy like Westbrook who has quick speed but looks uncoordinated when he attacks the basket.

[daslicer]

The guy Murray should model his game after is Gary Payton. His height-length and his body build is very similar to Payton. He has the physical tools to be a great defender like Payton and already is strong rebounder just like Payton was.


PqcyWWGRT10

[SAGirl]

Although I made the same point earlier: He made 'em last night, but you cannot tell me his jumpers looked even remotely good.
That is what teams will be looking at and will be exploited these upcoming playoffs.

I'm hoping and wishing he finds a reliably good form this next off season.
I look forward to his summer league next summer. That's not the end all be all as we all know, but what was revealing from his last summer league was that he didn't take a single jumpshot, not one as far as I recall. That wasn't a good sign to see this past summer. His high dribble and erratic decision making was still very present back then too. in that sense, he looks a lot better right now in comparison to his summer league self. So I'd hope that with work all season and next summer he looks more polished next. I have noticed improvement in his decision-making. Pop remarked that he's playing smarter game by game, getting better and I agree with Pop. I do see improvement. Still has ways to go though, specially to be what he wants to be.

[SAGirl]

What is weird about Parker's career is that he made a living slithering in and around the bigs for layups--but didn't get a foul called for him very often while shooting. For him to get into the lane that often, over and over, without getting hit seems impossible, but he really must be extremely elusive in there.
His footwork was superb too. Murray doesn't have that craftiness and trickiness with his pivot foot. He's definitely not as skilled. Hopefully they have him learning stuff. I have seen him dust off a spin move here or there, but nothing dangerously effective. I don't think he needed craftiness in lower leagues. He's was a transition scorer.

[daslicer]

Here's a clip of Rookie Parker against the Lakers in game 3 of '02 playoffs. Go to the 26 second mark of the clip to see how great Tony Parker's footwork was as a rookie. Also go to 1:54 and watch Tony Parker score on 1 on 3 fast break against Kobe,Fox,Fisher. It's pretty impressive because they are all in front of him and he still manages to go by all 3 and score the layup. Murray currently can't do those type of moves.

LQplBlIsZ3o

[SAGirl]

Here's a clip of Rookie Parker against the Lakers in game 3 of '02 playoffs. Go to the 26 second mark of the clip to see how great Tony Parker's footwork was as a rookie. Also go to 1:54 and watch Tony Parker score on 1 on 3 fast break against Kobe,Fox,Fisher. It's pretty impressive because they are all in front of him and he still manages to go by all 3 and score the layup. Murray currently can't do those type of moves.

LQplBlIsZ3o
Tony's jumpshot even looks better than Dijon's there ImO.

[Ice009]

Tony was never a terrible jump shooter. He was average to slightly above average to begin with. I liked that he took threes early on his career. It pissed me off when they made him stop shooting them as I think it retarded his game. If he kept shooting that 3-pointer and learned to make a higher percentage of them, it would have opened up his game so much more - it could have been ridiculous to couple a decent 3-point shot with his speed. I still don't get why Pop told him to not shoot threes for a long stretch of years. IMO it was stupid.

[Gagnrath]

Tony was never a terrible jump shooter. He was average to slightly above average to begin with. I liked that he took threes early on his career. It pissed me off when they made him stop shooting them as I think it retarded his game. If he kept shooting that 3-pointer and learned to make a higher percentage of them, it would have opened up his game so much more - it could have been ridiculous to couple a decent 3-point shot with his speed. I still don't get why Pop told him to not shoot threes for a long stretch of years. IMO it was stupid.

Because with Parker for a lot of years the long 2 or a 3 ball was a poor shot. It also tended to lead towards long rebounds and run outs. The whole plan of the Spurs was to methodically score 90 points per game and have the wings funnel you into the towers. First team to 90 wins and it worked... At least in part because giving the ball to Duncan in the paint meant either 2 points, a foul or a open look off of a double team.

[picnroll]

Parker also had an awesome floater, much, much more consistent than Murray’s inconsistent go to floater. Parker’s floater has fallen off late in his career just as Duncan’s bankshot did.

[duncan2k5]

Interesting that a PG in his second year that never played pro is being bashed because he isn't as good as a HOF level pg that had several pro years under his belt... Very interesting...

[Play Boban]

Not many point guards of the future come out of late in the first round tbh. And spare me Tiny Parker. There are exceptions.

[skulls138]

Parkers floater was as good as a wide open dunk in his prime.

[spurraider21]

TP was an absolute wizard in the paint tbh

[skulls138]

Mini Hakeem

[wildbill2u]

Parker also had an awesome floater, much, much more consistent than Murray’s inconsistent go to floater. Parker’s floater has fallen off late in his career just as Duncan’s bankshot did.

In my opinion Parker literally invented the modern floater which is close to a finger role in being an underhanded soft flip, but the floater is from farther out of course. That is one very tough shot to master, especially when delivering it at speed in the paint. Other players have adopted it but none do it any better than Parker in his prime. Murray's inconsistent floater, even though he has better height and reach, demonstrates just how tough that shot is.

[daslicer]

Murray's strength is his rebounding and defense. Murray should model his game after Gary Payton since his build is very similar to Payton's build.

[tholdren]

Murray's strength is his rebounding and defense. Murray should model his game after Gary Payton since his build is very similar to Payton's build.

Payton was a pg, murray is a sg

[Dave_ET]

why does it seem like we're expecting Dijon to be Russell Westbrook 1.5 seasons in?

does anyone remember what Kawhi looked like in the beginning?

2019 champion Spurs will be because Kawhi and DM are wrecking shop

[rjv]

murray is a big reason the spurs pulled out the last two wins as he provided an attack that the mavs and clippers were not able to handle. he shot the ball nicely in those games as well and his rebounding and energy were there as always. it's been nice to see the kid show something as of late.

[jermaine]

I almost got a bit to happy over this dude after he fought for that rebound an ended in a jump ball.

[jermaine]

You could tell Pop is a proud daddy

[DAF86]

why does it seem like we're expecting Dijon to be Russell Westbrook 1.5 seasons in?

does anyone remember what Kawhi looked like in the beginning?

2019 champion Spurs will be because Kawhi and DM are wrecking shop

Yeah, he looked pretty damn awesome since the beggining.

[rjv]

Yeah, he looked pretty damn awesome since the beggining. i wouldn't say he looked awesome. he looked like a solid pick because he proved to be athletic and tough on the defensive side of the ball. but his shooting was erratic, he had no three point range and his ball handling was suspect. the improvement on kawhi since his rookie year has been exponential.

[daslicer]

i wouldn't say he looked awesome. he looked like a solid pick because he proved to be athletic and tough on the defensive side of the ball. but his shooting was erratic, he had no three point range and his ball handling was suspect. the improvement on kawhi since his rookie year has been exponential.

Not true at all. Kawhi worked on his jump shot from the moment he was drafted. Chip met with him prior to the lockout and told him what he needed to do to fix his shot. Kawhi followed his directions and by the time he arrived to training camp his shot was fixed. It shocked the whole entire coaching staff that he had fixed it overnight. Kawhi shot 37 percent from 3 during his rookie year and 49 percent overall from the field. That's not someone with erratic shooting. Your right about Kawhi's ball handling not being good and his offensive game has evolved tremendously from being just a 3-D player which he was during his rookie year.

[cd021]

I think Murray's flashes got people thinking he is the next big thing in S.A. I think he is on a four year path like Cojo and Anderson to be above average players; that being said, I still expect him to be starting year four if everything goes right.

[SAGirl]

Dejounte has improved a lot. It's been gradual. It's not like he woke up one day and was an all star but one can see that he's starting to be more consistently good than erratic and that a faster style of play suits him.

He really should be playing some minutes every game.

[cd021]

He can never be like Parker. Parker's first step was lightening quick and he was the fastest player in the league for at least the first 10-12 years of his career.

Parker may be one of the three quickest players in league history but I don't think Murray needs to be nearly as quick to have similar game.

[DAF86]

i wouldn't say he looked awesome. he looked like a solid pick because he proved to be athletic and tough on the defensive side of the ball. but his shooting was erratic, he had no three point range and his ball handling was suspect. the improvement on kawhi since his rookie year has been exponential.

The fuck? Kawhi shot .376 % from 3 on his rookie season. He has been a good NBA shooter since the beggining.

[SpursforSix]

Parker may be one of the three quickest players in league history but I don't think Murray needs to be nearly as quick to have similar game.

this doesn't make any sense to me.

[skulls138]

Different body type and playing style. Parkers first step and layup capability allowed him to either beat the big men guarding the basket or go between their arms. Murray's too lanky to be that coordinated, he wants to go over the trees.

[rjv]

I think Murray's flashes got people thinking he is the next big thing in S.A. I think he is on a four year path like Cojo and Anderson to be above average players; that being said, I still expect him to be starting year four if everything goes right.
except he has great length for a guard and is very athletic which would separate him from the cojo and kyle in that regard.

[SAGirl]

except he has great length for a guard and is very athletic which would separate him from the cojo and kyle in that regard.
Yes. I don't like that comparison frankly. Just got to keep him hungry and aspire to reach for the stars with him.

[cd021]

this doesn't make any sense to me.

Attacking the basket off the dribble, and in transition, hitting floaters and pull up jumpers are all things Murray has shown, he doesn't have Parker's elite quickness, he is capable of doing all of that but not consistently yet. I think its not out of left field to compare the Murray to Parker.

[cd021]

except he has great length for a guard and is very athletic which would separate him from the cojo and kyle in that regard.

I think you're missing the point, I am not comparing Murray to Cojo and KA's physical tools, but instead the trajectory. Both took 4 years to become above average players, I think it will take Murray four years to become a starter despite the flashes he has shown.

[cd021]

Yes. I don't like that comparison frankly. Just got to keep him hungry and aspire to reach for the stars with him.
Not comparing Murray to Anderson and Cojo game or physical tools, save for how long it took for them to become above average NBA players.

[Drom John]

Deleted.
Combining, pun intend, with other combines

[Drom John]

Deleted.

[Drom John]

Draft Combine, 3/4 sprint

2017: Donovan Mitchel 3.01, 2nd Derrick White 3.08
2016: Michael Gbinje 3.13
2015: Marcus Thornto 3.02, Olivier Hanlan 3.25
2014: K.J. McDaniels 3.10
2013: Shane Larkin 3.08, Brandon Paul 3.37
2012: Harrison Barnes 3.16, Marcus Dedmon 3.19
2011: Jereme Richardson 3.02, Kawhi Leonard 3.15
2010: Trevor Booker 3.10, James Anderson 3.19
2009: Toney Douglas 3.03, Patty Mills 3.10, Danny Green 3.30, DeJuan Blair 3.45
2008: Sonny Weems 2.96, George Hill 3.07, Reggie Williams 3.07, James Gist 3.14
2007: Mike Conley 3.09
2006: Rodney Carney 3.06, Rudy Gay 3.32
2005: Will Bynum 3.00
2004: Nate Robinson 2.96, Tiago Splitter 3.38
2003: Kirk Penney 3.04
2002: Damon Hancock 3.03, John Salmons 3.25
2001: Cookie Belcher 2.91
2000: Shea Cotton 3.00

[Ice009]

How have you sorted that list? Spurs players and other players that are still in the league?