Rank the Spurs FA's Offseason Priorities...

[raybies]

As of today, Who are you prioritizing and why? Bonus points if you can give some salary ranges. Who can we realistically afford or who should we keep and who should we let walk? Who's skillset is most valuable overall or to our team?





Restricted

Team Option

Player Option

ETO





Player
Pos
Team
Season
Age
YOS
Veteran FA Status
GP
PTS
REB
AST
PER
Agent


Kyle Anderson (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Kyle-Anderson/Summary/24265)
PF
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
24
4
Bird
23
8.87
5.96
3.04
16.58
Thaddeus Foucher (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Thaddeus-Foucher/7)


Davis Bertans (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Davis-Bertans/Summary/24343)
SF/PF
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
25
2
Early Bird
21
3.76
1.14
0.48
15.68
Chris Patrick (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Chris-Patrick/358)


Bryn Forbes (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Bryn-Forbes/Summary/42884)
G
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
24
2
Early Bird
25
6.56
1.32
0.80
10.75
Michael Lindeman (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Michael-Lindeman/131)


Rudy Gay (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Rudy-Gay/Summary/71)
SF
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
31
12
Non-Bird
23
12.17
5.35
1.74
18.74
Roger Montgomery (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Roger-Montgomery/6)


Danny Green (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Danny-Green/Summary/1642)
SG
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
31
9
Bird
24
9.67
4.00
2.08
12.28
Bill Duffy (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Bill-Duffy/16)


Joffrey Lauvergne (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Joffrey-Lauvergne/Summary/24383)
PF
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
26
4
Non-Bird
12
3.50
3.58
0.75
11.05
Jeff Schwartz (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Jeff-Schwartz/23)
Pedja Materic (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Pedja-Materic/632)


Tony Parker (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Tony-Parker/Summary/268)
PG
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
36
17
Bird
5
8.20
2.00
5.00
20.00
Steven Heumann (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Steven-Heumann/45)

[Mr. Body]

Is the season over already? That was fast.

[raybies]

Is the season over already? That was fast.
speculation is one of my favorite parts about watching sports.... Was hoping to build a catalog of information as the season went a long I guess to remember how Forbes and Bertans ranked early as opposed to later. Bertans play may affect whether we sign KA back or not imo. Bryn on the other hand affects White's playing time and could slide in next to Mills next season if Manu retires, yet we still have Paul... pardon my reach here

[dabom]

Danny Green, Rudy Gay, Tony Parker.

[dabom]

It's a given we keep DG and TP.

[raybies]

It's a given we keep DG and TP.
I just don't know how Murray fits into this. With Patty and TP back does he play rest games etc. But yeah you are right. Green, Gay, and Parker. What do you think about the RFA's?

[dabom]

I just don't know how Murray fits into this. With Patty and TP back does he play rest games etc. But yeah you are right. Green, Gay, and Parker. What do you think about the RFA's?

KA wins games in the RS but not playoffs. Forbes looks good but doesn't have any good playoff showings. KA 5mil per for 3 years. Anything more and he can be replaced. Forbes is probably gonna leave though. Unless he gets something like 3mil per for 3 years. Anything more and he gets dropped.

[BillMc]

I am going to seem completely ignorant here (nothing new, I guess) but I didn't think Davis and Bryn were going to be restricted FAs. I thought that only applied to first round draft picks. Davis was a second and Bryn undrafted (I think). Please correct me if I am wrong.

[dabom]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio_spurs/

[raybies]

KA wins games in the RS but not playoffs. Forbes looks good but doesn't have any good playoff showings. KA 5mil per for 3 years. Anything more and he can be replaced. Forbes is probably gonna leave though. Unless he gets something like 3mil per for 3 years. Anything more and he gets dropped.
As of now, Forbes is next in line for the Ginobili spot next to Mills. KA's playmaking makes him a good fit for the bench next to Mills and Forbes. Gay should be there too. I don't think he's raised his value that much and most contenders won't have the money. If he's wise he stays. So I guess that leaves out Bertans. I guess Gay could playmake for the second unit. He's been starting to play the pnr so I guess that could give Bertans a chance.

It'll be interesting to see if Bertans can shake things up and make it tough on Pop. KA will have his spot but Bertans can have his say. Bertans when on is a complete game changer. The guy is like a rich man's Bonner when on, but he has potential to be what we always wanted the Red Rocket to be in the playoffs. I doubt Gay loses his minutes.

[dabom]

DG has a player option next year. Why the fuck are people bitching so much. :lol

[cjw]

I am going to seem completely ignorant here (nothing new, I guess) but I didn't think Davis and Bryn were going to be restricted FAs. I thought that only applied to first round draft picks. Davis was a second and Bryn undrafted (I think). Please correct me if I am wrong.

Only been in league for two years, so they’re RFAs. First round picks are a different case - because their deals are 2 + 2 team options, year 5 becomes restricted FA. For second rounders, they can actually hit UFA earlier ... see when the Rockets passed on Parsons’ fourth year option to keep him restricted vs. having him go unrestricted after four.

Anderson is an RFA this offseason. Assuming options are picked up, Murray is under control before RFA for two years after this.

[raybies]

I am going to seem completely ignorant here (nothing new, I guess) but I didn't think Davis and Bryn were going to be restricted FAs. I thought that only applied to first round draft picks. Davis was a second and Bryn undrafted (I think). Please correct me if I am wrong. Chinook would know best, but all rookies regardless of age are RFA's after first deal if I'm not mistaken. But this table was pulled from RealGM

[BillMc]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio_spurs/

Thanks. :toast

[raybies]

Only been in league for two years, so they’re RFAs. First round picks are a different case - because their deals are 2 + 2 team options, year 5 becomes restricted FA. For second rounders, they can actually hit UFA earlier ... see when the Rockets passed on Parsons’ fourth year option to keep him restricted vs. having him go unrestricted after four.

Anderson is an RFA this offseason. Assuming options are picked up, Murray is under control before RFA for two years after this.
thanks

[dabom]

As of now, Forbes is next in line for the Ginobili spot next to Mills. KA's playmaking makes him a good fit for the bench next to Mills and Forbes. Gay should be there too. I don't think he's raised his value that much and most contenders won't have the money. If he's wise he stays. So I guess that leaves out Bertans. I guess Gay could playmake for the second unit. He's been starting to play the pnr so I guess that could give Bertans a chance.

It'll be interesting to see if Bertans can shake things up and make it tough on Pop. KA will have his spot but Bertans can have his say. Bertans when on is a complete game changer. The guy is like a rich man's Bonner when on, but he has potential to be what we always wanted the Red Rocket to be in the playoffs. I doubt Gay loses his minutes.

I don't think Forbes is our Manu replacement. Or even position next to Mills. Manu brings running the offense. Something forbes lacks considerably. We technical have the money to keep all the players except 2. Fathead and forbes aren't playoff game changers. I would keep fathead over forbes though.

[raybies]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio_spurs/
So how much does that give us to resign our players? like 15-18 mill right? not counting Danny's, Gay's and Joff's cash I think Danny and Gay exercise their option but I think Joff opts out

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I am going to seem completely ignorant here (nothing new, I guess) but I didn't think Davis and Bryn were going to be restricted FAs. I thought that only applied to first round draft picks. Davis was a second and Bryn undrafted (I think). Please correct me if I am wrong.

They're going to be Arenas free agents and yes - restricted - absolutely the same case as Simmons.

[BillMc]

Only been in league for two years, so they’re RFAs. First round picks are a different case - because their deals are 2 + 2 team options, year 5 becomes restricted FA. For second rounders, they can actually hit UFA earlier ... see when the Rockets passed on Parsons’ fourth year option to keep him restricted vs. having him go unrestricted after four.

Anderson is an RFA this offseason. Assuming options are picked up, Murray is under control before RFA for two years after this.


Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) would know best, but all rookies regardless of age are RFA's after first deal if I'm not mistaken. But this table was pulled from RealGM

Many thanks guys.

Truthfully, I'm not too worried about Green and Tony as the FO always finds ways to keep "their" guys. Tony is definitely one and I think Danny is as well at this point.

I'd hate to see Rudy go but if Spurs have a big postseason run he'll almost certainly have to have really contributed, and then he'll have a higher market ceiling. Wouldn't want to lose any of Anderson, Bertans, or Forbes, but I'm sure at least 1 will be gone. Joff is a journeyman. His type are easily found. He'd be the lowest priority even with the team's lack of big depth.

[raybies]

I don't think Forbes is our Manu replacement. Or even position next to Mills. Manu brings running the offense. Something forbes lacks considerably. We technical have the money to keep all the players except 2. Fathead and forbes aren't playoff game changers. I would keep fathead over forbes though.
Well before this season Forbes only played well in garbage time. This year he took the leap by performing in meaningful rotation minutes. I think it's reasonable that he performs well in the post season next year if he doesn't do well this year. If bombs out in the playoffs he should be cheaper. But compared the guy to Curry lol so who knows how much Pop wants him.

[dabom]

So how much does that give us to resign our players? like 15-18 mill right? not counting Danny's, Gay's and Joff's cash I think Danny and Gay exercise their option but I think Joff opts out

It all depends who does well in the playoffs. Expect Gay to get a raise though.

[BillMc]

They're going to be Arenas free agents and yes - restricted - absolutely the same case as Simmons.

Thanks. :toast

[dabom]

Well before this season Forbes only played well in garbage time. This year he took the leap by performing in meaningful rotation minutes. I think it's reasonable that he performs well in the post season next year if he doesn't do well this year. If bombs out in the playoffs he should be cheaper. But compared the guy to Curry lol so who knows how much Pop wants him.

But your not saying who we keep or who we don't. How about you elaborate.

[SAGirl]

I value all 3 of Davis Kyle and Bryn bc this team just cannot keep getting the heck older around Kawhi each season, signing up all the guys who are 30 and older to multiple year contracts while ditching the best crop of young players they have developed since Kawhi, Danny, and Mills were in their initial contracts a few years ago. So, they need to retain some guys from this generation. They also don’t have capspace to go shopping in FA so signing back their best young players is the only way to keep continuity and youth around Kawhi. It’s still early in the season but all 3 have contributed to wins.

I do think one of either Davis or Kyle may be gone if Rudy stays. There’s just not sufficient available playing time for all 3 in a healthy roster when the team has Kawhi and Lamarcus as their best players occupying the forwards spots and Pop still starts Gasol and likes to play 2 big combos and 2 microguard combos at times (though this may be a result of injuries). I think all 3 are okay with being bench players in a good team, but Kyle expressed he doesn’t want to go back to playing limited minutes at this point in his career and I bet Bertans doesn’t feel any different. I keep thinking one of these 3 won’t be back.

Tony and Danny are going to be back but Tony’s contract should be smaller.

Danny is an enigma to me in $ terms. An argument can be made that he’s more valuable than Mills and should get comparable compensation. I find it difficult to even suggest he give a discount. Considering the trade rumors, should he be leaving money to sign someone younger who is due for a payday? Maybe not. The trade rumors situation just places Danny in a new perspective. Maybe he wants to ensure that if he were to get traded at least he’s well compensated. It’s also probably his last big deal.

Joff is a replacement level player in a minimum deal. It doesn’t matter what he does (picking his option or not).

[raybies]

Many thanks guys.

Truthfully, I'm not too worried about Green and Tony as the FO always finds ways to keep "their" guys. Tony is definitely one and I think Danny is as well at this point.

I'd hate to see Rudy go but if Spurs have a big postseason run he'll almost certainly have to have really contributed, and then he'll have a higher market ceiling. Wouldn't want to lose any of Anderson, Bertans, or Forbes, but I'm sure at least 1 will be gone. Joff is a journeyman. His type are easily found. He'd be the lowest priority even with the team's lack of big depth.
Yup spot on. Tony and Green would get taken care of. Danny is the prototypical 3 and D in the league and he's a Spur. He already sacrificed once, so I have no doubt he would do it again. He should look to secure a longer bag at about the same price 3 years. Tony is the question mark. How much will he get?

As for Rudy, you are right, but not many teams have the money that would be worth the move for him. He wants to win and he's been a pretty solid fit he while it was hard to believe at first. He's been efficient. I think he gives the star power that this team needs, even on a diminished role. If he waits one more year, I think we can take care of him.

I agree about Anderson, Davis and Forbes though. Hate to lose one but they could all be in line for a raise. The Detroits of the world will make sure of that.

[raybies]

But your not saying who we keep or who we don't. How about you elaborate.
I'd rather play the field lol

but I think Forbes and Bertans make the offense more explosive, Kyle can playmake. It's just tough. I guess I want to talk about it more before I release my first ballot.

Danny/Gay/Parker tier 1 no order

dang dude I like all three of our restricted free agents. They have all put in some serious work. I hate to choose...................

[raybies]

I value all 3 of Davis Kyle and Bryn bc this team just cannot keep getting the heck older around Kawhi each season, signing up all the guys who are 30 and older to multiple year contracts while ditching the best crop of young players they have developed since Kawhi, Danny, and Mills were in their initial contracts a few years ago. So, they need to retain some guys from this generation. They also don’t have capspace to go shopping in FA so signing back their best young players is the only way to keep continuity and youth around Kawhi. It’s still early in the season but all 3 have contributed to wins.

I do think one of either Davis or Kyle may be gone if Rudy stays. There’s just not sufficient available playing time for all 3 in a healthy roster when the team has Kawhi and Lamarcus as their best players occupying the forwards spots and Pop still starts Gasol and likes to play 2 big combos and 2 microguard combos at times (though this may be a result of injuries). I think all 3 are okay with being bench players in a good team, but Kyle expressed he doesn’t want to go back to playing limited minutes at this point in his career and I bet Bertans doesn’t feel any different. I keep thinking one of these 3 won’t be back.

Tony and Danny are going to be back but Tony’s contract should be smaller.

Danny is an enigma to me in $ terms. An argument can be made that he’s more valuable than Mills and should get comparable compensation. I find it difficult to even suggest he give a discount. Considering the trade rumors, should he be leaving money to sign someone younger who is due for a payday? Maybe not. The trade rumors situation just places Danny in a new perspective. Maybe he wants to ensure that if he were to get traded at least he’s well compensated. It’s also probably his last big deal.

Joff is a replacement level player in a minimum deal. It doesn’t matter what he does (picking his option or not).
Solid post.

That's what I'm afraid of. Gonna be interesting to see how they play with pressure of performing. Should make for a better squad though.

But I'm getting attached to this team. It's one of the more funner rosters we've had imo

[dabom]

I'd rather play the field lol

but I think Forbes and Bertans make the offense more explosive, Kyle can playmake. It's just tough. I guess I want to talk about it more before I release my first ballot.

Danny/Gay/Parker tier 1 no order

dang dude I like all three of our restricted free agents. They have all put in some serious work. I hate to choose...................

If we keep any of those players, it's in this order.

1. KA
2. Forbes
3. Bertans

[raybies]

If we keep any of those players, it's in this order.

1. KA
2. Forbes
3. Bertans
:pop: i love me some stretch four

As of now, I think you may be right though

[BillMc]

I value all 3 of Davis Kyle and Bryn bc this team just cannot keep getting the heck older around Kawhi each season, signing up all the guys who are 30 and older to multiple year contracts while ditching the best crop of young players they have developed since Kawhi, Danny, and Mills were in their initial contracts a few years ago. So, they need to retain some guys from this generation. They also don’t have capspace to go shopping in FA so signing back their best young players is the only way to keep continuity and youth around Kawhi. It’s still early in the season but all 3 have contributed to wins.

I do think one of either Davis or Kyle may be gone if Rudy stays. There’s just not sufficient available playing time for all 3 in a healthy roster when the team has Kawhi and Lamarcus as their best players occupying the forwards spots and Pop still starts Gasol and likes to play 2 big combos and 2 microguard combos at times (though this may be a result of injuries). I think all 3 are okay with being bench players in a good team, but Kyle expressed he doesn’t want to go back to playing limited minutes at this point in his career and I bet Bertans doesn’t feel any different. I keep thinking one of these 3 won’t be back.

Tony and Danny are going to be back but Tony’s contract should be smaller.

Danny is an enigma to me in $ terms. An argument can be made that he’s more valuable than Mills and should get comparable compensation. I find it difficult to even suggest he give a discount. Considering the trade rumors, should he be leaving money to sign someone younger who is due for a payday? Maybe not. The trade rumors situation just places Danny in a new perspective. Maybe he wants to ensure that if he were to get traded at least he’s well compensated. It’s also probably his last big deal.

Joff is a replacement level player in a minimum deal. It doesn’t matter what he does (picking his option or not).

This is a really excellent post that breaks it down well.

I think someone is the odd man out in the "tweener" forward group, and the only way both Davis and Kyle stay is if Rudy leaves. Davis is the most likely to go as Pop has played him least, and the team seems less invested in him then Anderson. Davis's early play didn't help, but he was coming off a finger injury. And poor Davis is already finger-challenged... Even so, he's still shooting almost 400 from 3. Tough to let that go. But Kyle has the defense and has looked more and more comfortable running the offense.

I think Bryn being an actual NBA player kind of surprised them as things were looking dire last season. He and Patty are in someways redundant. But as long as ancient Manu is taking up a guard spot, his second unit playing time will be reduced. I suppose if Bryn really blossomed it is theoretically possible you could trade Patty, but I don[t see that happening for many reasons. Or if Manu at last retires he might stay. But as it is they are already struggling to find minutes for Dejounte now that Tony is back. How many young guards can you develop while keeping your old core? In essence the longevity of Tony and Manu means these young guards may have to sit or go elsewhere. A ridiculous offer on Bryn, would probably not be matched. Like with Boban, Pop would wish him well and tell him to get the cash. But Bryn has such a sweet stroke. He's like Gery Neal with a much better attitude.


I am guessing Kyle is the most likely to stay. I think the team has really groomed him, and he's just blossoming. I also think his abilities aren't as immediately understandable to competing teams as Davis and Bryn. Look how long its taken Pop to figure out how to use Kyle? I doubt other teams really know what to make of him - YET. Shooters will always get offers somewhere.. I could see a win-win for the FO. The player they want the most may also be the one that attracts the least attention. Could certainly be wrong, Kyle should earn a nice payday.

So, if I were to say most likely to be back it would be: 1) Kyle 2)Bryn 3)Davis. Joff isn't worth ranking. Doesn't matter either way. If he opts out, I trust RC to find roughly the equivalent elsewhere.

[venitian navigator]

of the seven above:
1)Green is the priority (imho 11 to 13 mill using bird)
2) KA is second (imho 7 to 10 using rfa)
3) Gay is third but i would let him go if he opts out; imho also if he has a good seson is market is low (wing over 30, coming from bad injury)
4) Bertans is fourth 'cause of his shooting skill (5 mill a year using early bird)
5) Parker is fifth and imho not worth a big contract (ols, bad defense...has no market value except for us 'cause knows our offense)
6) Forbes is 6th and probably gone in favor of Paul and our next first round choice
7)Jolo is eventh and probably gone if not opt in in favor of signing Milutinov

[r0drig0lac]

too early to set priorities when not even half the season was played.

ps: Danny is a spurs for life

[vander]

Spotrac > hoopshype

[vander]

As of today, Who are you prioritizing and why? Bonus points if you can give some salary ranges. Who can we realistically afford or who should we keep and who should we let walk? Who's skillset is most valuable overall or to our team?





Restricted

Team Option

Player Option

ETO





Player
Pos
Team
Season
Age
YOS
Veteran FA Status
GP
PTS
REB
AST
PER
Agent


Kyle Anderson (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Kyle-Anderson/Summary/24265)
PF
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
24
4
Bird
23
8.87
5.96
3.04
16.58
Thaddeus Foucher (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Thaddeus-Foucher/7)


Davis Bertans (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Davis-Bertans/Summary/24343)
SF/PF
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
25
2
Early Bird
21
3.76
1.14
0.48
15.68
Chris Patrick (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Chris-Patrick/358)


Bryn Forbes (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Bryn-Forbes/Summary/42884)
G
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
24
2
Early Bird
25
6.56
1.32
0.80
10.75
Michael Lindeman (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Michael-Lindeman/131)


Rudy Gay (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Rudy-Gay/Summary/71)
SF
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
31
12
Non-Bird
23
12.17
5.35
1.74
18.74
Roger Montgomery (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Roger-Montgomery/6)


Danny Green (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Danny-Green/Summary/1642)
SG
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
31
9
Bird
24
9.67
4.00
2.08
12.28
Bill Duffy (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Bill-Duffy/16)


Joffrey Lauvergne (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Joffrey-Lauvergne/Summary/24383)
PF
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
26
4
Non-Bird
12
3.50
3.58
0.75
11.05
Jeff Schwartz (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Jeff-Schwartz/23)
Pedja Materic (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Pedja-Materic/632)


Tony Parker (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Tony-Parker/Summary/268)
PG
SAN (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/San-Antonio-Spurs/26/Rosters)
2018-2019
36
17
Bird
5
8.20
2.00
5.00
20.00
Steven Heumann (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Steven-Heumann/45)


you pretty much have them in order right there, gotta keep those cheaper young guys.
if Gay opts out for more money he can go
if Green wants more than 12/yr he can go
if TP wants more than 8/year he can go

[SAGirl]

I just don't know how Murray fits into this. With Patty and TP back does he play rest games etc. But yeah you are right. Green, Gay, and Parker. What do you think about the RFA's?
I wouldn't worry about Murray, he's unter team control for 2 more seasons after this one and has a lot to work on. If he doesn't improve other guards may even displace him eventually. If he wants to keep rotation minutes he has to take them from somebody. He will still get opportunities with Tony rest games, injuries and next season, Manu is possibly retiring. There will be minutes to be had at the guards spots. Stay hungry, work hard, show up when your number is called, show that you are better than any other option. Right now, he's not.

[John B]

The best move was working with LMA instead of giving up on him. Pops’ willingness to admit when he was wrong for over-coaching LMA. Now doing better job in trying to acclimate LMA’s game better, and LMA putting in the work and playing like the all-star Spurs signed. Instead of just trading him which was most of the basketball world thought would happen. I know it’s still a long way to go. But so far it looks good that they stuck on him. His new contract may be the best deal for what he’s putting up every night. Losing Simmons was bad but we couldn’t afford him likewise Dedmon. Giving Gasol 3 years extension seems dumb but he’s playing his best game. The FO doesn’t stop to amaze me when at first you’re like what?? Spurs is not a big market at any standard. And we’re just so lucky FO is that good making great calls, or Spurs could’ve easily been a losing organization, but instead it’s the best and a model organization in all professional sports despite being in a small market. Others simply have the money. Fu*king crazy.

[MaNu4Tres]

Re-signing Tony will be done.

So will Green imo.

Spurs need to look at dumping Mills to open up $$ to retain most of the FAs. It also would give the PG position some breathing room so DeJounte can actually have a consistent role moving forward next year.

[Chinook]

People are also overlooking that Gay is the only guy on whom the team can be outbid. They can only give him like $10 Million next year if he opts out due to no Bird rights.

How many guys the team keeps depends on how much PATFO believes in the roster. They likely have somewhere in the neighborhood of $32 Million to spend on Tony, Danny, Rudy, Kyle, Bryn and Davys. If they want to pay tax, they likely have a couple more million, but this is assuming they cut Paul and that Joff walks. And if they due want to bring over Milutinov, then it just gets even harder.

[raybies]

People are also overlooking that Gay is the only guy on whom the team can be outbid. They can only give him like $10 Million next year if he opts out due to no Bird rights.

How many guys the team keeps depends on how much PATFO believes in the roster. They likely have somewhere in the neighborhood of $32 Million to spend on Tony, Danny, Rudy, Kyle, Bryn and Davys. If they want to pay tax, they likely have a couple more million, but this is assuming they cut Paul and that Joff walks. And if they due want to bring over Milutinov, then it just gets even harder.
I remembered something about this but wasn't sure. If he wants to stay it makes since for him to opt in and then PATFO take care of him the following season like Pau.

But yeah it's gonna be tough to keep the RFA's...

[SAGirl]

I think Bryn being an actual NBA player kind of surprised them as things were looking dire last season. He and Patty are in someways redundant. But as long as ancient Manu is taking up a guard spot, his second unit playing time will be reduced. I suppose if Bryn really blossomed it is theoretically possible you could trade Patty, but I don[t see that happening for many reasons. Or if Manu at last retires he might stay. But as it is they are already struggling to find minutes for Dejounte now that Tony is back. How many young guards can you develop while keeping your old core? In essence the longevity of Tony and Manu means these young guards may have to sit or go elsewhere. A ridiculous offer on Bryn, would probably not be matched. Like with Boban, Pop would wish him well and tell him to get the cash. But Bryn has such a sweet stroke. He's like Gery Neal with a much better attitude.

I don't think Pop is surprised by Bryn. They sat down Dijon in summer league and decided to feature Bryn Forbes probably based on what they had seen him do in practices. If he surprised the coach, it was back then. But then Bryn upped the ante by coming in to training camp and doing it again. He was the only player that Pop mentioned in preseason before any of the games were played as having been impressive and remarking the summer that he had. Pop compares him to Steph right now. I think they really, really like him.

We can speculate about this all day. I think Davis and Bryn have similar roles as floor spacers and bench sparks, but Davis with that finger splint not shooting well early in the season was a factor in him not playing and I also think the Spurs are stronger in the forwards spots, and can afford to lose him and be just fine, noted by how he barely played until injuries decimated their forward rotation. Thus the team doesn't need Davis as much as they needed scoring from any of their guards.

Patty started the season notoriously awful... Manu is showing his age. Dijon got a lot of opportunities early in the season, plus the honor of starting games, but he is just not a good offensive player right now... Turns over the ball too much, is unpredictable with his dribble, and just can't shoot. So, I think Pop needed someone to score the ball from any of the guards spots and Bryn was their best scoring option at the time based on what they had seen him do in preseason. The Spurs needs are currently greater in their guards spots than they are in the forwards spots and that may actually be the reason behind the amount of guards they have picked up. They are looking for answers.

So, if Bryn is their best guard prospect right now, I think they want him back. I don't think he will be uber expensive unless he has some Gary Nealesque, Danny Greenesque a la 2013 finals showing in the postseason. As special as he looks as a shooter, he's still 6'1 or 6'2 and is playing primarily as a diminutive SG. He's not the team's PG, or primary ballhandler and I think Pop eventually projects him to be able to play that spot, but he's not there right now.

All in all, I think we agree, that based on what we have seen so far, Davis is likely to be the one guy they don't retain... unless of course Rudy Gay doesn't come back.

It's just interesting to exchange opinions and points of view about it all.

[DAF86]

All of them (except Lauvergne), but a reasonable price.

Kyle - 7 mills per (could go down depending how he finishes the season).
Bertans - 2/3 mills
Forbes - 2/3 mills
Gay - for what he's getting, no more than that.
Danny - 12 mills

And Tony hopefully accepts a big pay-cut, something along the lines of 3 or 4 millions per year. We need to make up somewhere for the millions given away this offseason.

[BackHome]

The one person we can not loose is Rudy the guy is a legit starter and makes us have a chance at another ring.
I love Mills but Forbes does exactly what he does but a lot cheaper also have to think about White in the mix. Kyle is turning into a decent player who can get rebounds and blocks some shots his opposite Bertans has such a sweet stroke on that three ball that is tough.

The big big question will be is Manu going to play one more year. We have no one close to him as far as skill set and experience. If he leaves we’re going to have to make trades to bring in a goood player cause Forbes/Mills/White are not a option.

My hope would be to bring everyone back including Manu except Lav and the new Sg and bring over Nik and draft SG Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk

[r0drig0lac]

All of them (except Lauvergne), but a reasonable price.

Kyle - 7 mills per (could go down depending how he finishes the season).
Bertans - 2/3 mills
Forbes - 2/3 mills
Gay - for what he's getting, no more than that.
Danny - 12 mills

And Tony hopefully accepts a big pay-cut, something along the lines of 3 or 4 millions per year. We need to make up somewhere for the millions given away this offseason.


this is definitely not happening.

[Oscar DeLa]

I don't know what it is but 2 million for Forbes? ROFLROFLFOR NO

[DAF86]

this is definitely not happening.

Why not? That would double their current salaries, for folks that aren't even assured rotation guys.

[r0drig0lac]

Why not? That would double their current salaries, for folks that aren't even assured rotation guys.

too early for that claim but I bet many teams will be willing to give more than 3m to two of the 20/30 best 3pt shooters in the world. Warriors, Rox and Nets will be salivating by Bertans if the offered value is so low.

[Chinook]

All of them (except Lauvergne), but a reasonable price.

Kyle - 7 mills per (could go down depending how he finishes the season).
Bertans - 2/3 mills
Forbes - 2/3 mills
Gay - for what he's getting, no more than that.
Danny - 12 mills

And Tony hopefully accepts a big pay-cut, something along the lines of 3 or 4 millions per year. We need to make up somewhere for the millions given away this offseason.

Kyle 10
Bertans 6
Forbes 5
Gay 10
Danny 12

Even that is conservative. I doubt the team balks at any of those numbers individually, but they will likely only keep on of Gay/Anderson and Bertans/Forbes. I went back and checked the long post I cut out. The Spurs will have something like $38 Million rather than $32 Million. That latter number was because at that point in the write-up, I had taken out a few million for Parker's next deal. Tony taking the minimum like Manu would help, and I do think it's possible given the size of his recent deal and the fact that Manu took a similar pay cut in 2015. If that happens, then the team will likely have enough to three of the listed players while also saving money for a cheap three-year deal for Milutinov or another big (because getting someone in the pipeline is really important with Gasol in his last guaranteed year).

[Chinook]

Why not? That would double their current salaries, for folks that aren't even assured rotation guys.

Because it's only slightly above the min for guys who can earn well more than that on other teams. Back in the day when $3 Million was double the LLE, you could make an argument. Now, it's 2/3 the LLE and is in insult territory.

[r0drig0lac]

Bertans and Forbes create gravity for their teams just by being on the court, they will be looked for by several teams with certainty

[DAF86]

too early for that claim but I bet many teams will be willing to give more than 3m to two of the 20/30 best 3pt shooters in the world. Warriors, Rox and Nets will be salivating by Bertans if the offered value is so low.


Kyle 10
Bertans 6
Forbes 5
Gay 10
Danny 12

Even that is conservative. I doubt the team balks at any of those numbers individually, but they will likely only keep on of Gay/Anderson and Bertans/Forbes. I went back and checked the long post I cut out. The Spurs will have something like $38 Million rather than $32 Million. That latter number was because at that point in the write-up, I had taken out a few million for Parker's next deal. Tony taking the minimum like Manu would help, and I do think it's possible given the size of his recent deal and the fact that Manu took a similar pay cut in 2015. If that happens, then the team will likely have enough to three of the listed players while also saving money for a cheap three-year deal for Milutinov or another big (because getting someone in the pipeline is really important with Gasol in his last guaranteed year).


Because it's only slightly above the min for guys who can earn well more than that on other teams. Back in the day when $3 Million was double the LLE, you could make an argument. Now, it's 2/3 the LLE and is in insult territory.

So it is pretty reasonable to say that at least one of Forbes or Bertans (if not both) is gone.

[TimDunkem]

of the seven above:
1)Green is the priority (imho 11 to 13 mill using bird)
2) KA is second (imho 7 to 10 using rfa)
3) Gay is third but i would let him go if he opts out; imho also if he has a good seson is market is low (wing over 30, coming from bad injury)
4) Bertans is fourth 'cause of his shooting skill (5 mill a year using early bird)
5) Parker is fifth and imho not worth a big contract (ols, bad defense...has no market value except for us 'cause knows our offense)
6) Forbes is 6th and probably gone in favor of Paul and our next first round choice
7)Jolo is eventh and probably gone if not opt in in favor of signing Milutinov
In the Spurs eyes, Parker is priority #1.

[BackHome]

Forbes is a 6”1 SG I don’t think any team is going to throw money at him. He is a system player who will do well as a Spur player but would suck on most other teams. But he knows he got his chance because of Pop I think they will do a wink deal get paid less know and we got u next contract.

But let’s not forget White who I think is a more complete player and can do backup as PG and SG.

[Mr. Body]

Forbes and Bertans won't draw a huge amount of interest. Maybe Bertans, but you just let him go then.

I'd really like to keep Gay. We've only begun to see what free can do for us and I think he may be relatively cheap, valuing a winning franchise over money on a shitty team.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Forbes is a 6”1 SG I don’t think any team is going to throw money at him. He is a system player who will do well as a Spur player but would suck on most other teams. But he knows he got his chance because of Pop I think they will do a wink deal get paid less know and we got u next contract.

But let’s not forget White who I think is a more complete player and can do backup as PG and SG.

Forbes can have a JJ Redick-like career with his shooting. His form is absolutely perfect.

[DAF86]

Re-signing Tony will be done.

So will Green imo.

Spurs need to look at dumping Mills to open up $$ to retain most of the FAs. It also would give the PG position some breathing room so DeJounte can actually have a consistent role moving forward next year.

Patty Mills for Channing Frye + fillers?

[SAGirl]

So it is pretty reasonable to say that at least one of Forbes or Bertans (if not both) is gone.
BAsed on just a quarter of a season gone by, I think Bertans is more likely.

Again bc the Spurs forwards are a point of strength and they may not maximize him when the team is at full health. Meanwhile the guards are in a bad state. Tony is getting older, minutes restricted, games rested, brittle, etc. Manu may retire. Dijon can't shoot, etc. Spurs sometimes really struggle getting scoring production from their guards even right now. So, if you can only pay one shooter, I do think Forbes has priority based on team needs.

[Chinook]

Forbes is a 6”1 SG I don’t think any team is going to throw money at him. He is a system player who will do well as a Spur player but would suck on most other teams. But he knows he got his chance because of Pop I think they will do a wink deal get paid less know and we got u next contract.

But let’s not forget White who I think is a more complete player and can do backup as PG and SG.

Forbes is 6-3. To put this into perspective, he's already done more than Seth Curry did before he got his deal with Dallas. Curry had name recognition and all, but Bryn's also growing at a faster rate and the boost the Spurs brand gives.

I don't think it's remotely fair to call Forbes a system player, especially not a product of the Spurs system. The skills he has a transferable to almost any system. A guy like Troy Daniels got this much and is more limited than Forbes. Bryn's not a starting-caliber guy, but no one is talking that kind of pay anyway.

I don't think Bryn would want anything to do with a wink-wink deal. Not only is it against the CBA, but he couldn't trust that he'd get injured and lose that money. Plus, the team will likely not be in a good cap position until LMA's guaranteed years are done, so there's no clear path to more money coming up.

[Drom John]

I expect Lauvergne to opt in.

Cut Jean-Charles.

Parker $8M/2 years, player option
Gasol opting out for $12M/2 years, player option, that high to save the $4M, and y'all know that Pau's a top 40 player currently in VA/RPM.

Then non-Bird Gay $10/2, player option.

Then get Green, Anderson, Forbes, Bertans to split the remainder, maybe a bit more, signing Green and Anderson last with Bird rights.

If that is not enough for any of the four, let him/them walk.

Try to sign Milutinov at the low end.

Better yet, sign Duncan for his third year stretched salary.

[Chinook]

Drom, I think you'll be happy to hear they've already cut LJC.

However, most of the rest of your post doesn't make sense. Pau can't opt out. Gay wouldn't opt out. Bird rights wouldn't be affected by signing order, as the team is over the cap.

[SAGirl]

This may be a thread we will revisit and comment on in the future. The season is early and we don't know Pop's full vision of the team.

Guys like Anderson, Forbes and Bertans did what they needed to do in contract years. They took advantage of injuries to show their games. They have place themselves in good positions to get paid. If that is elsewhere one has to be glad for them and really sad for the team.

Again, I detest multiyear contracts for everyone 31 and over and letting guys 24 and 25 years old go. But it can't be helped. They deserve to get paid. We will just have to see rest of the season and playoffs and see who really looks like a keeper then.

[cd021]

I expect Anderson(4 year, $36-40 million) Gay (2 years, $21 million), Green (4 years, $50 million) Parker (one year deal, the final year with the team), and Bertans to be back but I don't know about Forbes, this team could get super expensive next year.

[SpursforSix]

:pop:

1) hang out at the house for a couple of weeks and catch up on Friends
2) then take annual tour of wine tasting regions of the world
3) see if Matt is free to play cards
4) fuck...did they cancel Friends
5) watch YouTube for potential players

[Chinook]

I expect Anderson(4 year, $36-40 million) Gay (2 years, $21 million), Green (4 years, $50 million) Parker (one year deal, the final year with the team), and Bertans to be back but I don't know about Forbes, this team could get super expensive next year.

I just don't see a point of paying three combo-forwards legit money. It's one of the easiest positions to find in the league. I think those first three contracts are pretty spot on, and Tony at the min could slot in with those numbers at that point its...

Parker, Mills, Murray
Green, Manu, White
Leonard, Anderson,
Aldridge, Gay
Gasol

Four spots and like $5-7 Million to fill them. The pick will be one and take up like $2 Million. Then it's finding another center and a wing. Paul being back would take a spot and like a million and a half. Same with Joff. That would leave them with less than $2 Million under the tax to sign a final player. Don't really see either Forbes or Bertans back for that, and they don't seem worth going into the tax to retain.

[raybies]

This may be a thread we will revisit and comment on in the future. The season is early and we don't know Pop's full vision of the team.

.
I was hoping to start it now to kind of catalog the ups and downs of the stock for these guys, mostly the RFA's. I know it's early but, maybe we can get a better sense on who's played consistently and deservedly of being back.

[TheGreatYacht]

One this is for sure. Fathead is at the bottom of their priorities. Gay, Green, Parker, and Forbes are all more important to this team.

[TD 21]

If in fact they have about $38M to spend, here's how I think it plays out . . .

- Green: 4/$50M
- Parker: 2/$16M
- Anderson: 4/$38M
- Bertans: 3/$15M
- Gay: opts out and signs elsewhere
- Forbes: receives qualifying offer and either has it rescinded or signs offer sheet for 2/$8M that goes unmatched
- Lauvergne: opts in

Leaves about $2M for the 1st and a minimum signing, while leaving a roster spot open.

[SAGirl]

If in fact they have about $38M to spend, here's how I think it plays out . . .

- Green: 4/$50M
- Parker: 2/$16M
- Anderson: 4/$38M
- Bertans: 3/$15M
- Gay: opts out and signs elsewhere
- Forbes: receives qualifying offer and either has it rescinded or signs offer sheet for 2/$8M that goes unmatched
- Lauvergne: opts in

Leaves about $2M for the 1st and a minimum signing, while leaving a roster spot open.
Thanks for your prediction.
I have some questions about it.

Rudy? Are you certain he's going to be gone? I am assuming you think they underachieve, he sours and is gone.

I know you have said Forbes is blocked from playing time and it doesn't make sense for him to come back. I'd like him back, but it would require Tony leaving money to sign him.. :lol right?

[TD 21]

Thanks for your prediction.
I have some questions about it.

Rudy? Are you certain he's going to be gone? I am assuming you think they underachieve, he sours and is gone.

I know you have said Forbes is blocked from playing time and it doesn't make sense for him to come back. I'd like him back, but it would require Tony leaving money to sign him.. :lol right?

No, I'm not certain Gay is going to be gone. Think both sides preference would be to re-sign, but if that roughly $38M to spend is correct, I don't see how they could afford him.

Parker's contract has nothing to do with Forbes. It's simply a numbers game, with 6 guards projected to be back, Mills entrenched and playing the same role and leaving Murray a potential path to the rotation.

[SAGirl]

No, I'm not certain Gay is going to be gone. Think both sides preference would be to re-sign, but if that roughly $38M to spend is correct, I don't see how they could afford him.

Parker's contract has nothing to do with Forbes. It's simply a numbers game, with 6 guards projected to be back, Mills entrenched and playing the same role and leaving Murray a potential path to the rotation.
I think most expect he will come back for less.

you think Manu comes back?

[cd021]

I just don't see a point of paying three combo-forwards legit money. It's one of the easiest positions to find in the league. I think those first three contracts are pretty spot on, and Tony at the min could slot in with those numbers at that point its...

Parker, Mills, Murray
Green, Manu, White
Leonard, Anderson,
Aldridge, Gay
Gasol

Four spots and like $5-7 Million to fill them. The pick will be one and take up like $2 Million. Then it's finding another center and a wing. Paul being back would take a spot and like a million and a half. Same with Joff. That would leave them with less than $2 Million under the tax to sign a final player. Don't really see either Forbes or Bertans back for that, and they don't seem worth going into the tax to retain.

I have the Spurs salary being at $115,000,000, to 14 players for next season with the luxury tax being at almost $121,000,000. Manu retiring would add some breathing room and push that up to around $8.5.

I think Joff opts in and the Spurs pick up Paul.
PATFO seems to really like Forbes, and Bertans, but they are likely to only retain one and that would seem to be Bertans because Forbes, while good, isn't irreplaceable. Bertans isn't either but he has more of a unique skill set.

Parker, Mills, Murray
Green, Manu, Paul, White
Kawhi, Anderson
Aldridge, Gay, Bertans
Gasol, Lauvergne, 1st rounder (hopefully a big)

Thats fifteen spots, 14 if Manu retires.

[TD 21]

I think most expect he will come back for less.

you think Manu comes back?

Parker? Of course he will, but it's going to be more than most presume.

No, think he retires.

[Chinook]

I have the Spurs salary being at $115,000,000, to 14 players for next season with the luxury tax being at almost $121,000,000. Manu retiring would add some breathing room and push that up to around $8.5.

I think Joff opts in and the Spurs pick up Paul.
PATFO seems to really like Forbes, and Bertans, but they are likely to only retain one and that would seem to be Bertans because Forbes, while good, isn't irreplaceable. Bertans isn't either but he has more of a unique skill set.

Parker, Mills, Murray
Green, Manu, Paul, White
Kawhi, Anderson
Aldridge, Gay, Bertans
Gasol, Lauvergne, 1st rounder (hopefully a big)

Thats fifteen spots, 14 if Manu retires.

Not counting Bertans, you're probably close on your estimate. Dunno how you counted the pick and whatnot, but I've yet to do a real breakdown of the salaries. Anyway, Manu retiring won't free up space, because his contract was clearly two seasons so he could retire and keep the money. As far as I know, it's not an option, either, so he can't even opt out and re-sign another deal if he wants to stay. While the team could stretch him, I hope they don't. Tim's $1.6 Million next year is one of the things making the math tight. I also don't know what value you assigned for Parker, but I don't think he's going to sign for one more year. He's the best PG on the roster now, and that could still be the case next year. That's even more true if Manu retires.

As far as Forbes vs Bertans, I do think Bertans makes more sense if he can be a legit big. But I do think Forbes is better than Davis right now, and if Manu retires, I could see Bryn having a better shot at the rotation than Bertans does.

[spurraider21]

1. Keep Danny Green
2. Find a trade partner for 50 Mills
3. Keep Kyle Anderson

[tonight...you]

1. Find a trade partner for 50 Mills
Thank You.

[SAGirl]

Not going to do priorities yet bc season is early but it's nice to keep track of good performances.

Bryn deserves to get re-upped.

I don't care about the glut of guards or whatever ... sign that man.

Davis missed a bunch of shots tonight but it was one of his best defensive games that I have ever seen. He was really active.

Rudy scored efficiently but also had 4 TO, some unforced and some questionable or bad defense. He's a mixed bag right now.

[MaNu4Tres]

I just don't see a point of paying three combo-forwards legit money. It's one of the easiest positions to find in the league. I think those first three contracts are pretty spot on, and Tony at the min could slot in with those numbers at that point its...

Parker, Mills, Murray
Green, Manu, White
Leonard, Anderson,
Aldridge, Gay
Gasol

Four spots and like $5-7 Million to fill them. The pick will be one and take up like $2 Million. Then it's finding another center and a wing. Paul being back would take a spot and like a million and a half. Same with Joff. That would leave them with less than $2 Million under the tax to sign a final player. Don't really see either Forbes or Bertans back for that, and they don't seem worth going into the tax to retain.

Forbes is a better option than Patty moving forward. Trade Patty and free up $ and roles.

[tholdren]

Spurs will ring, manu possibly pau will retire

[TimDunkem]

Not going to do priorities yet bc season is early but it's nice to keep track of good performances.

Bryn deserves to get re-upped.

I don't care about the glut of guards or whatever ... sign that man.

Davis missed a bunch of shots tonight but it was one of his best defensive games that I have ever seen. He was really active.

Rudy scored efficiently but also had 4 TO, some unforced and some questionable or bad defense. He's a mixed bag right now.
Rudy had an off game. It happens. As for the defense, this is his first year with a defense-first team while coming off of an achilles injury, so I don't worry about his defense all that much. I say keep him if possible because he makes the bench stronger and brings much needed versatility.

Regardless, Patty has to go. That's all I care about above all else...I won't hold my breath though. :depressed

[Chinook]

Forbes is a better option than Patty moving forward. Trade Patty and free up $ and roles.

In the same way that the Spurs wouldn't let Mills walk just to give Murray more minutes, they aren't likely to move Patty to give Forbes money. Patty very clearly seems to be a top leader in the locker room, and that will probably only be more so as Manu and Tony get ready to retire. No Spurs fan in their right mind should argue that chemistry isn't important.

[TimDunkem]

The chemistry isn't going to magically go down the drain with Patty gone. Yeah - it probably won't happen - but, if it did, the sky wouldn't fall.

[tholdren]

In the same way that the Spurs wouldn't let Mills walk just to give Murray more minutes, they aren't likely to move Patty to give Forbes money. Patty very clearly seems to be a top leader in the locker room, and that will probably only be more so as Manu and Tony get ready to retire. No Spurs fan in their right mind should argue that chemistry isn't important.

They shouldnt, but the ones that do have no understanding of the game

[tholdren]

The chemistry isn't going to magically go down the drain with Patty gone. Yeah - it probably won't happen - but, if it did, the sky wouldn't fall.

Lol youve never played sports for a consistent and winning team at a competitive level

[TimDunkem]

Lol youve never played sports for a consistent and winning team at a competitive level
Neither have you.

And, again, the sky will not fall if Mills leaves the team.

[Chinook]

Spurs will ring, manu possibly pau will retire

I doubt Pau will retire. Those 16 big ones aren't likely guaranteed in that case. If he were to retire the summer after next (coming off a back-to-back), then that would be a different story. If he were to, though, and the team let him keep all of his guaranteed money, they'd likely stretch him so he'd get $4.4 Million a year for five years (again, this just won't happen if he doesn't get a career-ending injury). That would free up about $12 Million in salary. However, it would also possibly trigger under-the-cap scenarios, and if those cases, the Spurs would likely not be as generous with keeping the team together. Kyle (and Bryn and Davis to smaller extents) would be more likely to stay due to his small cap hold, and the timing of signings like Tony's would be bigger.

Plus, that is one of the few scenarios where a Mills trade would be possible.

(In case it needed to be said, if Pau did leave $22 Million on the table to retire, then it would only make the team more likely to go the cap-space route, not less. Though obviously, if it happened after they just won a title, then the team would be more conservative -- to the point that PATFO would probably guarantee more of Pau's final year to make him stay).

[tholdren]

Neither have you.

And, again, the sky will not fall if Mills leaves the team.

Yes, i have. The difference between us is that i have done what you speculate

[MaNu4Tres]

In the same way that the Spurs wouldn't let Mills walk just to give Murray more minutes, they aren't likely to move Patty to give Forbes money. Patty very clearly seems to be a top leader in the locker room, and that will probably only be more so as Manu and Tony get ready to retire. No Spurs fan in their right mind should argue that chemistry isn't important.

Chemistry isn't created by one player. Especially a bench player. Spurs foundation is too strong to break without Mills. Hell, it didn't even shift when Tim retired.

[TimDunkem]

Yes, i have. The difference between us is that i have done what you speculate
The only thing you've consistently contributed to are awful posts on this forum, and the list of missing persons around town.

[Chinook]

Chemistry isn't created by one player. Especially a bench player. Spurs foundation is too strong to break without Mills. Hell, it didn't even shift when Tim retired.

The year Tim retired, Pop paid Ginobili $14 Million almost exclusively because of his "corporate knowledge". Yes, culture is held among the group. However, Patty is the leader, and that isn't likely going to be replaced (which is why he got the role in the first place).

[Mr. Body]

Lol youve never played sports for a consistent and winning team at a competitive level

Right. A lot of basketball doesn't happen on the court.

[tholdren]

I doubt Pau will retire. Those 16 big ones aren't likely guaranteed in that case. If he were to retire the summer after next (coming off a back-to-back), then that would be a different story. If he were to, though, and the team let him keep all of his guaranteed money, they'd likely stretch him so he'd get $4.4 Million a year for five years (again, this just won't happen if he doesn't get a career-ending injury). That would free up about $12 Million in salary. However, it would also possibly trigger under-the-cap scenarios, and if those cases, the Spurs would likely not be as generous with keeping the team together. Kyle (and Bryn and Davis to smaller extents) would be more likely to stay due to his small cap hold, and the timing of signings like Tony's would be bigger.

Plus, that is one of the few scenarios where a Mills trade would be possible.

Money wise i think youre right. Personality wise i see pau as more a ride off into the sunset guy. Sometimes i watch him and i dont see any compete, but other times i do.

So if they do ring, why do you think spurs wouldnt stay pat?

[tholdren]

The only thing you've consistently contributed to are awful posts on this forum, and the list of missing persons around town.

Again, youve never played. Maybe thats why you dont get the takes

[Hoops Czar]

So how much does that give us to resign our players? like 15-18 mill right? not counting Danny's, Gay's and Joff's cash I think Danny and Gay exercise their option but I think Joff opts out


Whatever it is, anything more than $0.00 would be too steep a price to re-sign Bertans. Forbes is redundant with Paddy on the roster and everybody knows Kyle is gonna see the majority of that $15-18M whether he deserves it or not.

[TimDunkem]

Again, youve never played. Maybe thats why you dont get the takes
The only takes you have are just the same "no talent in the NBA blah blah blah".

You never post anything else other than the same dribble when you follow me and others around the forum. Tell me how you should be the Celtics' starting PG again though. :lol

[MaNu4Tres]

The year Tim retired, Pop paid Ginobili $14 Million almost exclusively because of his "corporate knowledge". Yes, culture is held among the group. However, Patty is the leader, and that isn't likely going to be replaced (which is why he got the role in the first place).

A bench player is never the leader. Parker is more of a leader than Patty and he'll be here for another 2-3 years.

[Chinook]

The chemistry isn't going to magically go down the drain with Patty gone. Yeah - it probably won't happen - but, if it did, the sky wouldn't fall.

I do think chemistry would go down if Patty were traded and Manu were to retire. Obviously the guys wouldn't forget how to play basketball (even the Spurs brand) without him. But as far as keeping the locker room steady, I'd be wary. Pop clearly values that highly given the money he's dolled out the past two off-seasons. He could be off his rocker, but he knows his roster better than we do, and if he thought Patty was a "keep at all costs" guy despite him having a down year, it's likely that he's more valuable off the court than guys want to give him credit for.

[Chinook]

A bench player is never the leader.

That seems like a really random rule.

[Hoops Czar]

Right. A lot of basketball doesn't happen on the court.
Exactly!! Paddy didn't get paid for his on court performance like most athletes, he was paid for his cheerful demeanor and towel waving.

[Hoops Czar]

A bench player is never the leader. Parker is more of a leader than Patty and he'll be here for another 2-3 years.

[tholdren]

A bench player is never the leader. Parker is more of a leader than Patty and he'll be here for another 2-3 years.

Manu is more of a leader than parker...... irony

[TimDunkem]

I do think chemistry would go down if Patty were traded and Manu were to retire. Obviously the guys wouldn't forget how to play basketball (even the Spurs brand) without him. But as far as keeping the locker room steady, I'd be wary. Pop clearly values that highly given the money he's dolled out the past two off-seasons. He could be off his rocker, but he knows his roster better than we do, and if he thought Patty was a "keep at all costs" guy despite him having a down year, it's likely that he's more valuable off the court than guys want to give him credit for.
But how much? Enough to significantly affect play on the court? I'm skeptical of that notion.

[dabom]

Chinook the realist right now. :cry

[tholdren]

The only takes you have are just the same "no talent in the NBA blah blah blah".

You never post anything else other than the same dribble when you follow me and others around the forum. Tell me how you should be the Celtics' starting PG again though. :lol

Same dribble? Lol read a book

[Chinook]

Money wise i think youre right. Personality wise i see pau as more a ride off into the sunset guy. Sometimes i watch him and i dont see any compete, but other times i do.

So if they do ring, why do you think spurs wouldnt stay pat?

Because they'd have huge holes with no one on the roster to fill them. In the same way that Pop immediately decided to break the bank for Pau once Tim retired, he would likely try to find a replacement center to start next to Aldridge at all costs. I have zero idea who such a center would be, and what cost it would take, but you can't lose Pau and just stay the course. If they pick up a guy like Greg Monroe or Brook Lopez as a buy-out guy and he plays well in the stretch-run and playoffs, then that would at least give them an internal option. Right now, the only option is Joff ... and well, it wouldn't be Joff.

[TimDunkem]

Same dribble? Lol read a book
It's called a typo. And, lol, the irony. :lmao

[tholdren]

But how much? Enough to significantly affect play on the court? I'm skeptical of that notion.

Patty is the only old spur with character. Hes the bridge.

[MaNu4Tres]

Manu is more of a leader than parker...... irony

I'd say LaMarcus is more of a leader than anyone this year. Manu and Parker are right behind him with Kawhi. LOL at Patty being THE leader.

[tholdren]

The irony. :lmao

You must not know what that means....

[tholdren]

I'd say LaMarcus is more of a leader than anyone this year. Manu and Parker are right behind him with Kawhi. LOL at Patty being THE leader.

Unknown. Best scorer, most consistent doesnt equate to leader.

[TimDunkem]

You must not know what that means....
I know what drivel is. Auto-correct can be a bitch sometimes when you're mobile. Keep on with weak spelling and grammar smack if that's all you have though - I'm here to talk ball. :lol

[tholdren]

I know what drivel is. Auto-correct can be a bitch sometimes when you're mobile. Keep on with weak spelling and grammar smack if that's all you have though - I'm here to talk ball. :lol

Oh ok auto correct. And your past posts really indicate youre hear to quote talk ball...

[dabom]

Patty is the only old spur with character. Hes the bridge.

[MaNu4Tres]

Unknown. Best scorer, most consistent doesnt equate to leader.

That's why all of his teammates have raved about his leadership this year?

How he's adopted Timmys way to lead by effort and work ethic night in and night out?

[SAGirl]

Rudy had an off game. It happens. As for the defense, this is his first year with a defense-first team while coming off of an achilles injury, so I don't worry about his defense all that much. I say keep him if possible because he makes the bench stronger and brings much needed versatility.

Regardless, Patty has to go. That's all I care about above all else...I won't hold my breath though. :depressed
You have good points. :tu

Rudy really is in the driver’s seat of his own situation.

[TimDunkem]

Oh ok auto correct. And your past posts really indicate youre hear to quote talk ball...
*here

That was easy.

[Chinook]

But how much? Enough to significantly affect play on the court? I'm skeptical of that notion.

I don't know. But their culture is like their third superstar right now. It may not be worth jeopardizing it for Bryn Forbes. Trading away RJ really seemed to lift up the team back in 2012. So we know that one person can affect chemistry a lot. The Spurs are loses sources of culture now with Tim and Bonner retired and with Manu and Tony near the door. Mills by himself may not be enough, but I'm struggling to figure out who would replace him. Not Kawhi or LMA -- they would have done it already. Not Gay, because he's him. What does Murray know? And they tried with Danny for a bit last year, and it didn't really work out outside of interviews.

[TimDunkem]

You have good points. :tu

Rudy really is in the driver’s seat of his own situation.
He has really surprised me. I didn't think he'd look even this good. Those achilles injuries are killer...It's only up from here for Rudy, imo.

[Hoops Czar]

Patty is the only old spur with character. Hes the bridge.
I don't know. Bertans was waving a nasty towel on the bench tonight. Looks like Mills has some competition.

[MaNu4Tres]

Unknown. Best scorer, most consistent doesnt equate to leader.

https://clutchpoints.com/spurs-news-lamarcus-aldridge-doesnt-see-current-workload-burden/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[MaNu4Tres]

Gasol on Aldridge's put back with 24.2 second left: " “LaMarcus is showing great competitiveness and great heart and great leadership. I just love what I am seeing from him. He’s not just settling for jumpers. He’s going after balls, going after rebounds, making key plays."

[MaNu4Tres]

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/amp/Spurs-coaches-take-notice-of-Aldridge-s-12268372.php?t=12d644bc46c6ed8151&cmpid=twitter-premium&__twitter_impression=true

[sasaint]

Gasol on Aldridge's put back with 24.2 second left: " “LaMarcus is showing great competitiveness and great heart and great leadership. I just love what I am seeing from him. He’s not just settling for jumpers. He’s going after balls, going after rebounds, making key plays."

A super-big play that kind of got lost in the wake of Manu's dagger trey.

[Chinook]

A super-big play that kind of got lost in the wake of Manu's dagger trey.

Pretty sure that "grasping at straws" quote is from the first Thunder game.

[SAGirl]

I do think chemistry would go down if Patty were traded and Manu were to retire. Obviously the guys wouldn't forget how to play basketball (even the Spurs brand) without him. But as far as keeping the locker room steady, I'd be wary. Pop clearly values that highly given the money he's dolled out the past two off-seasons. He could be off his rocker, but he knows his roster better than we do, and if he thought Patty was a "keep at all costs" guy despite him having a down year, it's likely that he's more valuable off the court than guys want to give him credit for.

This I believe too. Pop might be off his rocker or whatever with the chemistry thing, but I have seen players in this team describe Patty as basically the leader. Kyle of all ppl said it. Manu said Patty is like a bridge right now between himself and the new generation. Manu might not be as influential or close to the younger guys as Patty is. There’s probably a big disconnect between the Spurs younglings and the old dudes otherwise. Just not much in common, generations too far apart. Patty is definitely the “missing link” between the two generations to put it in some metaphorical way.

Kyle I believe the Spurs do want him back. I do have my doubts on what happens with him. It depends very much on addressing Rudy first. I do believe Spurs want him back so he has a good chance. We shall see what happens rest of the season and playoffs. I’d like Bryn back. And Although I like Davis a bunch I think he still remains the guy likeliest to not come back if Rudy does (TD 21 might have that one pegged).

[SAGirl]

I don't know. But their culture is like their third superstar right now. It may not be worth jeopardizing it for Bryn Forbes. Trading away RJ really seemed to lift up the team back in 2012. So we know that one person can affect chemistry a lot. The Spurs are loses sources of culture now with Tim and Bonner retired and with Manu and Tony near the door. Mills by himself may not be enough, but I'm struggling to figure out who would replace him. Not Kawhi or LMA -- they would have done it already. Not Gay, because he's him. What does Murray know? And they tried with Danny for a bit last year, and it didn't really work out outside of interviews.
In terms of chemistry, its might be Kyle if he’s re-signed.
Has nothing to do with him leading but just being a people person and a guy that Pop said, everyone enjoys playing with and who has a high bbiq. That’s if he comes back of course. There might be others. It’s difficult to know how influential guys like Pau are still. The youngsters have a lot to work on. Usually the leaders are at least veterans.

[cd021]

Not counting Bertans, you're probably close on your estimate. Dunno how you counted the pick and whatnot, but I've yet to do a real breakdown of the salaries. Anyway, Manu retiring won't free up space, because his contract was clearly two seasons so he could retire and keep the money. As far as I know, it's not an option, either, so he can't even opt out and re-sign another deal if he wants to stay. While the team could stretch him, I hope they don't. Tim's $1.6 Million next year is one of the things making the math tight. I also don't know what value you assigned for Parker, but I don't think he's going to sign for one more year. He's the best PG on the roster now, and that could still be the case next year. That's even more true if Manu retires.

As far as Forbes vs Bertans, I do think Bertans makes more sense if he can be a legit big. But I do think Forbes is better than Davis right now, and if Manu retires, I could see Bryn having a better shot at the rotation than Bertans does.

-I went with the vet minimum for Parker, though I had a $5-10 million dollar, 1 year deal for him in mind initially.

- I didn't assign any money to Bertans but I used the aforementioned numbers for Gay and Anderson.


- I keep getting weird numbers when I look up the salary of the 27th pick in the 2018 draft so I used White's starting salary as a place holder.


-Also included Duncan's last year after the stretch and waive as well. If Manu were to retire I do think it is likely that they stretch and waive him, it would only cost about $833,333 for the next three seasons.

That would put the Spurs around $113 million if my math is close.

[Hoops Czar]

-I went with the vet minimum for Parker, though I had a $5-10 million dollar, 1 year deal for him in mind initially.


It would be asinine and outright egregious to give Parker a veteran's minimum contract while giving Paddy an absurd 12.5M over the next 4 years. This can't be justified by human logic.

[r0drig0lac]

The only thing you've consistently contributed to are awful posts on this forum, and the list of missing persons around town.

lmao

[Em-City]

I think we can't overlook the impact of kawhi's return will have on this discussion. How well is rudy/kyle/davis going to work together with our franchise player in terms of chemistry?
What does pop do in terms of further limiting pau's minutes in playoffs, and who plays the 4 better between Rudy and Kyle when we need to roll out the best 5 possible?

[tbdog]

Forbes and Bertans should be able to be retained cheaply as they are one dimensional players. Kyle Anderson will cost us about 10mil per year. Are we getting a meeting with Lebron?

[Dave_ET]

Gay left SAC and $14M to play for a winning team at $17M/2yr. I don't see him leaving, seems like he really likes it here. I am also betting by the end of the playoffs we will all be begging him to stay.

[MaNu4Tres]

This I believe too. Pop might be off his rocker or whatever with the chemistry thing, but I have seen players in this team describe Patty as basically the leader. Kyle of all ppl said it. Manu said Patty is like a bridge right now between himself and the new generation. Manu might not be as influential or close to the younger guys as Patty is. There’s probably a big disconnect between the Spurs younglings and the old dudes otherwise. Just not much in common, generations too far apart. Patty is definitely the “missing link” between the two generations to put it in some metaphorical way.

Kyle I believe the Spurs do want him back. I do have my doubts on what happens with him. It depends very much on addressing Rudy first. I do believe Spurs want him back so he has a good chance. We shall see what happens rest of the season and playoffs. I’d like Bryn back. And Although I like Davis a bunch I think he still remains the guy likeliest to not come back if Rudy does (TD 21 might have that one pegged).

Kyle said this.

https://twitter.com/OrtizSportsTV/status/935919692191027200

[SAGirl]

Kyle said this.

https://twitter.com/OrtizSportsTV/status/935919692191027200
Yes and he’s very right that’s Lamarcus this season. His comment about Patty was made in the summer . Its a good development that Lamarcus has taken that responsibility on this year. Not wanting to step on Kawhis toes and Kawhi being a recluse the leader last season was Patty. That’s what I take from it. The team will be much better off with Lamarcus taking ownership for the groups success. I don’t think Kawhi cares one bit since he’s really not a people person.

[cd021]

Gay left SAC and $14M to play for a winning team at $17M/2yr. I don't see him leaving, seems like he really likes it here. I am also betting by the end of the playoffs we will all be begging him to stay.

As Chinook schooled me on, the Spurs can offer him 120% of his current salary which would be $10.2 million. A two year deal at $21 million is a should a pretty competitive offer, especially without any state taxes.

[SAGirl]

Forbes and Bertans should be able to be retained cheaply as they are one dimensional players. Kyle Anderson will cost us about 10mil per year. Are we getting a meeting with Lebron?
I am not counting on LeBron. I am not even counting on any big additions. Keeping Danny, Rudy and Tony is probably about as good as they can hope to do and one has to be in kind of wishful thinking mode hoping their RFA come back.

[ElNono]

Spurs need Manu back, IMO

[8FOR!3]

Historically Pop wouldn't pay a guy like Kyle Anderson (average wing defender, below average shooter) but I really like him on this team.

[TheGreatYacht]

Undefeated since Fathead was crying on the floor. Even in the OKC game, the team looked better after his injury. Not surprising tbh.... he should be at the bottom of our priorities

[CGD]

I’d like to find a way to keep each of Bryn, Bert, and Kyle, but I hope that if they realize they can’t, that they can cash in for future assets via a small trade. It’d be a shame to have them walk for nothing like some other guys that have come through in recent years (e.g., Boban).

[MaNu4Tres]

I'd rather keep Bryn and his all around game on both ends than stick with Patty for another 3 years for 40 million. I'd rather give Bryn Mills' minutes in the playoffs as well.

Mills has shot well the past 2-3 weeks, but there's so much more to the game than shooting and Forbes has been providing that.

Pau/LA ( they stagger after first 5-6 minutes in 1st/3rd) - Bertans - Gay - Manu - Bryn bench come playoff time.

[Chinook]

Patty's a much more complete player than Forbes or Murray right now. Bryn is not a dynamic shooter at this point, and he's not a play-maker. He competes on D, but he's not noticeably better than Mills on that end either. He wouldn't be the back-up PG, which is why Murray still factors into this. We already saw how exploitable Murray is right now. Until he fixes those issues, he's going to be a worse option than Mills, especially if Patty remains aggressive and effective in his shooting.

In a scenario where the Spurs were looking at cap space, money-balling Mills into Bryn might make sense. But it doesn't in most likely scenarios.

[MaNu4Tres]

Patty's a much more complete player than Forbes or Murray right now. Bryn is not a dynamic shooter at this point, and he's not a play-maker. He competes on D, but he's not noticeably better than Mills on that end either. He wouldn't be the back-up PG, which is why Murray still factors into this. We already saw how exploitable Murray is right now. Until he fixes those issues, he's going to be a worse option than Mills, especially if Patty remains aggressive and effective in his shooting.

In a scenario where the Spurs were looking at cap space, money-balling Mills into Bryn might make sense. But it doesn't in most likely scenarios.


I couldn't disagree more with your assessment or your opinion.

Not the first time, and won't be the last.

[TheGreatYacht]

Jesus Christ

[SAGirl]

Bottom line for me, all 3 of the RFA could easily not come back, provided Rudy and Manu come back making them dispensable.

So it depends on what else is going on with the rest of the roster, and also how well they play the rest of the regular season and the playoffs. It's ironic but the better they play, the likelier it is they will secure their futures elsewhere.

It kind of makes me depressed to think about it, but I can see CoJo, Baynes, JSimms, Marco, Dedmon, Boban type scenarios for all of them.

[sasaint]

A bench player is never the leader. Parker is more of a leader than Patty and he'll be here for another 2-3 years.


I'd say LaMarcus is more of a leader than anyone this year. Manu and Parker are right behind him with Kawhi. LOL at Patty being THE leader.


That's why all of his teammates have raved about his leadership this year?

How he's adopted Timmys way to lead by effort and work ethic night in and night out?


Kyle said this.

https://twitter.com/OrtizSportsTV/status/935919692191027200

Quit trying to confuse us with a well constructed argument...

I think you will concede that Patty is AMONG the Spurs' leaders. But your point about Parker is very interesting. It remains to be seen at season's end whether Tony seems to have enough left in the tank to endure another 1-3 seasons. We just have to wait and see. Despite their record, watching the Spurs' offense with 50Mills and Dijon at the helm has increased my appreciation for Tony... If he CAN return for another couple of seasons, I tend to agree that makes Patty seem more expendable - as far as locker room chemistry is concerned. By season's end, if Bryn's play continues at its current trajectory, that would make Patty expendable on the court. Whether BOTH of those events would be conditions precedent to moving Patty is the big question. And in both instances, I don't think we fans or PATFO will be in a position to know until season's end. For that reason, I expect Patty to last this season, at least, giving him a chance to reclaim his niche on the floor.

Some times I think fans don't differentiate clearly between locker room harmony/cohesion/camaraderie and on-court chemistry. (I recognize there is often a correlation between the two.)

For grins I put together this list of the Spurs' older guys. You can kind of cross off any number of names to get an idea how you think their absence would affect the Spurs' locker room and/or their play.

Player Age NBA Experince Spurs' Tenure
Manu 40 16 16
Tony 35 17 17
Danny 30 9 8
Patty 29 9 7
Kawhi 25 6 6
Kyle 24 4 4
LMA 32 12 3
Pau 37 17 2
Rudy 31 12 1

Personally I think you can cross Manu and Patty off the list and the Spurs would be just fine both on-court and in the locker room - assuming Tony and Bryn still look good at season's end.

[dabom]

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment or your opinion.

Not the first time, and won't be the last.

Uve been wrong a lot of times bud. :lol

[SAGirl]

Quit trying to confuse us with a well constructed argument...

I think you will concede that Patty is AMONG the Spurs' leaders. But your point about Parker is very interesting. It remains to be seen at season's end whether Tony seems to have enough left in the tank to endure another 1-3 seasons. We just have to wait and see. Despite their record, watching the Spurs' offense with 50Mills and Dijon at the helm has increased my appreciation for Tony... If he CAN return for another couple of seasons, I tend to agree that makes Patty seem more expendable - as far as locker room chemistry is concerned. By season's end, if Bryn's play continues at its current trajectory, that would make Patty expendable on the court. Whether BOTH of those events would be conditions precedent to moving Patty is the big question. And in both instances, I don't think we fans or PATFO will be in a position to know until season's end. For that reason, I expect Patty to last this season, at least, giving him a chance to reclaim his niche on the floor.

Some times I think fans don't differentiate clearly between locker room harmony/cohesion/camaraderie and on-court chemistry. (I recognize there is often a correlation between the two.)

For grins I put together this list of the Spurs' older guys. You can kind of cross off any number of names to get an idea how you think their absence would affect the Spurs' locker room and/or their play.

Player Age NBA Experince Spurs' Tenure
Manu 40 16 16
Tony 35 17 17
Danny 30 9 8
Patty 29 9 7
Kawhi 25 6 6
Kyle 24 4 4
LMA 32 12 3
Pau 37 17 2
Rudy 31 12 1

Personally I think you can cross Manu and Patty off the list and the Spurs would be just fine both on-court and in the locker room - assuming Tony and Bryn still look good at season's end.
good post.
I don't expect any trades midseason for several reasons:
1. Spurs have overachieved considering their injury situation.
2. The RFA who have trade value are needed right now.
3. There is also a possibility that the team actually needs to re-sign them, provided they suffer personnel losses via retirement (Manu) or FA (Rudy).
4. It's unforeseen who can step up in the playoffs. These guys are young and have played very little in the postseason. A past sample of someone not shooting well (neither Bryn nor Davis did much last postseason), doesn't mean the same thing would happen this year. They have gained confidence and may step up in ways we can't predict right now.

I just don't expect 50 Mills to be traded though, unless they were to get a big time FA acquisition, like a star FA "name", which I don't expect anymore. But if they were to get some name, then they have to shed some contracts.

Spurs will basically retain everyone that they can retain and the RFA are at the mercy of what happens with the rest of the roster, and what interest they can raise from other teams. I could see all of them gone if they haven't secured a rotation spot by the end of the season and playoffs. I see a lot of CoJo and JSimms in some of them, maybe some Boban (someone who may not play regularly and still elicit a bigger offer from some other team than what they are worth to the Spurs)... etc. It's kind of sad bc I really like this group of RFA. I am really happy for them though that they will get paid by someone and secure their future.

[sasaint]

good post.
I don't expect any trades midseason for several reasons:
1. Spurs have overachieved considering their injury situation.
2. The RFA who have trade value are needed right now.
3. There is also a possibility that the team actually needs to re-sign them, provided they suffer personnel losses via retirement (Manu) or FA (Rudy).
4. It's unforeseen who can step up in the playoffs. These guys are young and have played very little in the postseason. A past sample of someone not shooting well (neither Bryn nor Davis did much last postseason), doesn't mean the same thing would happen this year. They have gained confidence and may step up in ways we can't predict right now.

I just don't expect 50 Mills to be traded though, unless they were to get a big time FA acquisition, like a star FA "name", which I don't expect anymore. But if they were to get some name, then they have to shed some contracts.

Spurs will basically retain everyone that they can retain and the RFA are at the mercy of what happens with the rest of the roster, and what interest they can raise from other teams. I could see all of them gone if they haven't secured a rotation spot by the end of this year. I see a lot of CoJo and JSimms in some of them, maybe some Boban (someone who may not play regularly and still elicit a bigger offer from some other team than what they are worth to the Spurs)... etc. It's kind of sad bc I really like this group of RFA. I am really happy for them though that they will get paid by someone and secure their future.

At this moment, Pop's comments clearly indicate the team will work hard to find a way to keep both Kyle and Bryn. Both Danny and Rudy - each in his own way - have exceeded expectations. So I cannot see the team parting with either of them in order to retain Kyle and Bryn. There is an odd man out somewhere. In my calculations it is a very expensive Patty Mills - if my assumptions about Tony and Bryn hold true at season's end.

[SAGirl]

At this moment, Pop's comments clearly indicate the team will work hard to find a way to keep both Kyle and Bryn. Both Danny and Rudy - each in his own way - have exceeded expectations. So I cannot see the team parting with either of them in order to retain Kyle and Bryn. There is an odd man out somewhere. In my calculations it is a very expensive Patty Mills - if my assumptions about Tony and Bryn hold true at season's end.
I agree with you. We definitely agree.

[r0drig0lac]

Jesus Christ

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[sasaint]

It's called a typo. And, lol, the irony. :lmao

When I plagiarize you in the future, it will be a play on words - as I thought yours was. :toast

[DAF86]

I'd rather keep Bryn and his all around game on both ends than stick with Patty for another 3 years for 40 million. I'd rather give Bryn Mills' minutes in the playoffs as well.

Mills has shot well the past 2-3 weeks, but there's so much more to the game than shooting and Forbes has been providing that.

Pau/LA ( they stagger after first 5-6 minutes in 1st/3rd) - Bertans - Gay - Manu - Bryn bench come playoff time.

No Kyle?

[sasaint]

A super-big play that kind of got lost in the wake of Manu's dagger trey.

Haha! Oops. But he also got a big put-back before Manu's dagger, too - didn't he?

[BatManu20]

1. Trade Patty
2. Re-sign Bryn
3. Convince Rudy to opt in
4. Re-sign Kyle
5. Trade Pau/Sign Lebron*




* = Highly doubtful but possible if he Lebron knows what's good for him.

[raybies]

No Kyle?
I've been starting to think, if Rudy is resigned it kinda makes Kyle redundant, cause they both kinda do the same thing. Kyle more of a playmaker though, and Rudy more of a scorer. I think if you keep Bertans and Forbes it better surrounds the bench with Rudy. Then I think about how RC or Pop was it that Kyle is putting himself in position to earn some money and in retrospect it didn't seem to commital like when Pop said they have to pay Patty a lot to keep him. I guess they put it out there they wanted Patty and I just didn't get that sense about Kyle. We'll see though.

I'm ready to make my first priority list.

Green/ Tony/ Rudy Top Priority

Forbes/ Bertans

Kyle if Bertans is lost

Joff

My inclination is that Kyle is being set up as a Simmons situation where he won't be able to stretch his wings here so to speak. We have a lot of usage players and that puts him pretty low on the totem pole. His at his best as point forward with Patty or small ball 4 and if Rudy is retained I don't see the fit. Forbes taking Manu's spot and Bertans playing the four would help the Spurs bench be pretty explosive offensively. While having Kyle would be more of a luxury.

Still tough to see, but want to see the full lineup and the bench battle between Anderson and Bertans.

[SAGirl]

No Kyle?


Patty and Manu started the season relatively off shooting and Rudy had several games he wasn't playing well. This is what Pop said about Kyle. He's going to play.

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That doesn't necessarily mean he will be back, it's just going to be a matter of if they can afford him after they take care of others. He's obviously not their main priority, but I don't expect him to play poorly at all, and might have a great postseason too. However, it definitely doesn't mean he will be back.

[SAGirl]

I've been starting to think, if Rudy is resigned it kinda makes Kyle redundant, cause they both kinda do the same thing. Kyle more of a playmaker though, and Rudy more of a scorer. I think if you keep Bertans and Forbes it better surrounds the bench with Rudy. Then I think about how RC or Pop was it that Kyle is putting himself in position to earn some money and in retrospect it didn't seem to commital like when Pop said they have to pay Patty a lot to keep him. I guess they put it out there they wanted Patty and I just didn't get that sense about Kyle. We'll see though.

I'm ready to make my first priority list.

Green/ Tony/ Rudy Top Priority

Forbes/ Bertans

Kyle if Bertans is lost

Joff

My inclination is that Kyle is being set up as a Simmons situation where he won't be able to stretch his wings here so to speak. We have a lot of usage players and that puts him pretty low on the totem pole. His at his best as point forward with Patty or small ball 4 and if Rudy is retained I don't see the fit. Forbes taking Manu's spot and Bertans playing the four would help the Spurs bench be pretty explosive offensively. While having Kyle would be more of a luxury.

Still tough to see, but want to see the full lineup and the bench battle between Anderson and Bertans.
A whole lot of recency bias here, but it's to be expected.

If fans question at this point if the team is better without Kawhi, it's absolutely normal to expect they don't value Anderson.

[raybies]

A whole lot of recency bias here, but it's to be expected.

If fans question at this point if the team is better without Kawhi, it's absolutely normal to expect they don't value Anderson.
I don't think I was being biased to recency. I'm just thinking about fit at this point. But I did forget the versatility to having Kyle in case one Rudy gets injured or a four. He can play both positions. I'm really torn at this point. But I think Kyle playing like he has will get him the minutes over Bertans, thus making him more valuable and making Bertans less valuable which means we probably lose him and keep Bertans. But Still long season. It just depends on which direction we are gonna go. I just think Forbes and Bertans would be more explosive and better fit for the bench with Rudy. Pop seems to love Forbes already imo and he typically loves a stretch four.

[SAGirl]

I don't think I was being biased to recency. I'm just thinking about fit at this point. But I did forget the versatility to having Kyle in case one Rudy gets injured or a four. He can play both positions. I'm really torn at this point. But I think Kyle playing like he has will get him the minutes over Bertans, thus making him more valuable and making Bertans less valuable which means we probably lose him and keep Bertans. But Still long season. It just depends on which direction we are gonna go. I just think Forbes and Bertans would be more explosive and better fit for the bench with Rudy. Pop seems to love Forbes already imo and he typically loves a stretch four.
Yet Kyle had started games (unlike Bertans and Forbes himself only very recently) and played more minutes than both.

I do think he's a luxury to have and he can be gone just by virtue of Spurs having other priorities and him being too good at this point to be in this predicament...

[$pursDynasty]

First priority is talking LBJ into joining the (excuse the nickname) KingSlayer, LMAlpha, MVParker and CIA Pop to win, not one, not two...maybe just 3 :lobt2:

[SAGirl]

I don't think I was being biased to recency. I'm just thinking about fit at this point. But I did forget the versatility to having Kyle in case one Rudy gets injured or a four. He can play both positions. I'm really torn at this point. But I think Kyle playing like he has will get him the minutes over Bertans, thus making him more valuable and making Bertans less valuable which means we probably lose him and keep Bertans. But Still long season. It just depends on which direction we are gonna go. I just think Forbes and Bertans would be more explosive and better fit for the bench with Rudy. Pop seems to love Forbes already imo and he typically loves a stretch four.
I've just thought about this more, and I don't think time played will affect any of them, specially Davis and Kyle, with a big/forward rotation that includes Lamarcus/Rudy/Kawhi, it's expected their minutes will be short. They made the best of their play when they got time.

If anything, I think Davis has a skill that is really easy to market.

[raybies]

I've just thought about this more, and I don't think time played will affect any of them, specially Davis and Kyle, with a big/forward rotation that includes Lamarcus/Rudy/Kawhi, it's expected their minutes will be short. They made the best of their play when they got time.

If anything, I think Davis has a skill that is really easy to market.
That's a good point about skill set. Kyle def has a more unique skill set.

[TD 21]

If in fact they have about $38M to spend, here's how I think it plays out . . .

- Green: 4/$50M
- Parker: 2/$16M
- Anderson: 4/$38M
- Bertans: 3/$15M
- Gay: opts out and signs elsewhere
- Forbes: receives qualifying offer and either has it rescinded or signs offer sheet for 2/$8M that goes unmatched
- Lauvergne: opts in

Leaves about $2M for the 1st and a minimum signing, while leaving a roster spot open.


On second thought, presuming relative health, Parker is probably getting $10M annually, so to account for this, Anderson is probably getting more like $8M annually. Of course, it's difficult to pinpoint exact amounts and should be viewed more as a range.

Think Bertans is the most difficult to predict. Wouldn't be shocked to see a team like Mavericks, with cap space to burn, unable to attract stars and a need at forward, come with something like a 3/$21M offer sheet.

[SAGirl]

On second thought, presuming relative health, Parker is probably getting $10M annually, so to account for this, Anderson is probably getting more like $8M annually. Of course, it's difficult to pinpoint exact amounts and should be viewed more as a range.

Think Bertans is the most difficult to predict. Wouldn't be shocked to see a team like Mavericks, with cap space to burn, unable to attract stars and a need at forward, come with something like a 3/$21M offer sheet.



I totally can see a scenario like the one you describe

[Ice009]

Do you guys think the Spurs will try and make a run at LeBron? Do you think they'll even get a sit down with him?

[SAGirl]

Do you guys think the Spurs will try and make a run at LeBron? Do you think they'll even get a sit down with him?
No.
I expect stand pat personally, with some RFA bolting.

[DAF86]

On second thought, presuming relative health, Parker is probably getting $10M annually, so to account for this, Anderson is probably getting more like $8M annually. Of course, it's difficult to pinpoint exact amounts and should be viewed more as a range.

Think Bertans is the most difficult to predict. Wouldn't be shocked to see a team like Mavericks, with cap space to burn, unable to attract stars and a need at forward, come with something like a 3/$21M offer sheet.



Man, Tony getting 10 millions per would suck more than Patty getting that. If the Spurs give that kind of money to Tony they would be seriously fucking themselves over in the ass in terms of future cap flexibility.

[$pursDynasty]

Do you guys think the Spurs will try and make a run at LeBron? Do you think they'll even get a sit down with him?
Depends on how the season ends. If Spurs win it all, no. But if Spurs push the Dubs to 7 games in WCF, but then they destroy the Cavs, then probably. If he sees us as the best chance of ringing and beating the Dubs then I like our chances better than some young team with "potential "

[SAGirl]

Man, Tony getting 10 millions per would suck more than Patty getting that. If the Spurs give that kind of money to Tony they would be seriously fucking themselves over in the ass in terms of future cap flexibility.
and I can totally see it. He's still the team's starting PG and should he remain healthy, he's going to want adequate compensation.

and I can see the RFA bolting too frankly. Pop is going to lowball them (already has for Anderson, who gave that statement saying the NBA is absolutely ruthless and he has to go out there looking out for himself). Well, the issue is that sometimes you send RFA out there to look for offers and they don't come back, specially if they are seldom played when the roster is fully healthy. It's going to be JSimms, Dedmon and Lee all over again with statements thanking the Spurs for the opportunity to learn and be in the league but how it's about time to move on to the next stage in their careers.

Maybe it's no big loss, but Spurs certainly continue to get older.

[SAGirl]

Depends on how the season ends. If Spurs win it all, no. But if Spurs push the Dubs to 7 games in WCF, but then they destroy the Cavs, then probably. If he sees us as the best chance of ringing and beating the Dubs then I like our chances better than some young team with "potential "
not going to happen...

[Chinook]

On second thought, presuming relative health, Parker is probably getting $10M annually, so to account for this, Anderson is probably getting more like $8M annually. Of course, it's difficult to pinpoint exact amounts and should be viewed more as a range.

Think Bertans is the most difficult to predict. Wouldn't be shocked to see a team like Mavericks, with cap space to burn, unable to attract stars and a need at forward, come with something like a 3/$21M offer sheet.




I don't see any way to argue that Anderson will get less so Parker will get more. If he can command that contract, he will -- from someone. Tony already got his above-market deal. He'd be getting an extension right now (he's eligible) if it was up to him to set his contract.

[MaNu4Tres]

No Kyle?

I'd personally start Kyle at the 4 when the roster is whole.

[dabom]

I'd personally start Kyle at the 4 when the roster is whole.

:lol

[dabom]

I'd personally start Kyle at the 4 when the roster is whole.

You wanna bet a 100 on if fathead stays a Spur?

[MaNu4Tres]

You wanna bet a 100 on if fathead stays a Spur?

No because I don't have inside info on Kyle. I did on LaMarcus.

[dabom]

No because I don't have inside info on Kyle. I did on LaMarcus.

Fair enough.

[TD 21]

Man, Tony getting 10 millions per would suck more than Patty getting that. If the Spurs give that kind of money to Tony they would be seriously fucking themselves over in the ass in terms of future cap flexibility.

Nah. Whether they end up paying the tax or not, they're not going to have flexibility in the short term anyway.



I don't see any way to argue that Anderson will get less so Parker will get more. If he can command that contract, he will -- from someone. Tony already got his above-market deal. He'd be getting an extension right now (he's eligible) if it was up to him to set his contract.

I don't think Anderson will get less so Parker will get more; I just think Parker will get more than I initially stated and Anderson will get less. If Anderson gets an offer sheet, it's likely to be more along the lines of what I initially stated though.

They just gave Gasol and possibly Mills (Nets offer wasn't leaked) above market deals. Different circumstances, but people who think they're paying Parker a relative pittance are only setting themselves up for disappointment.

[raybies]

Ever since I started thinkin about skill sets, makes me think that Bryn is easily replaceable. His skill set is by far the most common and his position is one we have the most depth with White, Murray, and Paul on deals next year. I think Spurs let him walk unless he's super cheap. By I think they are gonna try and get there money's worth with him. He's like an Ian Clark type, Neal type, Troy Daniels type, etc and while with a better ceiling than those three, easy to find. So I think looking at skill sets that put my list as follows:

Green/Parker/Gay

Kyle
Bertans
Forbes

Joff

I'm sure I'll waffle back and forth through the year, but here's where I'm at now.

[SAGirl]

All of these "priorities" will change if premier FA wants to meet with Pop next summer.

I doubt they land anyone and expect mostly the same team back, but one never knows. July is a different time and anything can happen.

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[spurraider21]

The year Tim retired, Pop paid Ginobili $14 Million almost exclusively because of his "corporate knowledge". Yes, culture is held among the group. However, Patty is the leader, and that isn't likely going to be replaced (which is why he got the role in the first place).
manu was getting lowballed until philly offered him a big contract

[spurraider21]

Patty's a much more complete player than Forbes or Murray right now. Bryn is not a dynamic shooter at this point, and he's not a play-maker. He competes on D, but he's not noticeably better than Mills on that end either. He wouldn't be the back-up PG, which is why Murray still factors into this. We already saw how exploitable Murray is right now. Until he fixes those issues, he's going to be a worse option than Mills, especially if Patty remains aggressive and effective in his shooting.

In a scenario where the Spurs were looking at cap space, money-balling Mills into Bryn might make sense. But it doesn't in most likely scenarios.
wat

their per minute attempts are nearly identical when it comes to both FGA and 3PA.

[SAGirl]

manu was getting lowballed until philly offered him a big contract
definitely.
I saw the rumors were that he was getting $3 million from the Spurs until the Philly offer.

Spurs could see a similar situation with Tony, though unlikely bc the market is a lot tighter. Two seasons ago it was a bonanza and a lot of teams gave out crazy contracts... that has quieted down and is probably going to be very slow next summer.

I think the one who could see a crazy offer this summer is Rudy Gay.

We will just have to see.

[SAGirl]

contract year FA, who is helping or hurting their stock?
http://hoopshype.com/2017/12/15/contract-year-which-free-agents-to-be-are-helping-hurting-their-stock/

[MaNu4Tres]

The year Tim retired, Pop paid Ginobili $14 Million almost exclusively because of his "corporate knowledge". Yes, culture is held among the group. However, Patty is the leader, and that isn't likely going to be replaced (which is why he got the role in the first place).

As I was saying, Patty isn't the leader, a bench player is never THE leader.

From Manu recently ( he doesn't even mention Patty):

“I just try to be as helpful as I can (passing on knowledge) from my 16 years in the league,” Ginobili said. “I don’t buy this ‘be a leader’ thing. You don’t force a leader. It just happens. And we have a lot of them. Tony has (17 seasons). Pau has played for a million years too, and LaMarcus with his game has been a great leader and has been more vocal this year. We don’t have one leader. We have a great team of players and a coaching staff that has been here for a while.”

Ahem.

[dabom]

He didn't say kawhi. Guess he didn't try to name everyone. Debunked already. :lol

[spurraider21]

CIA pop instructing medical staff to keep kawhi hurt so we can sign him cheap tbh