**Official 2018 Oakland Raiders Thread sponsored by Child's Play: Return of Chucky**

[spurraider21]

Just getting this one warmed up

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/423/426/jon-gruden_display_image.jpg?1285994093

[IronMexican]

Probably the most exciting coach hire for the Raiders in a very long time


I was maybe more excited when they hired Kiffin :lol

[spurraider21]

Probably the most exciting coach hire for the Raiders in a very long time


I was maybe more excited when they hired Kiffin :lol
most exciting hire since jon gruden tbh :lol

[Raven]

not sure what the big deal is tbh

[Bill_Brasky]

I'm gonna go ahead and go into wait and see mode on this one. It's been awhile for old chuckster.

[Avante]

Give Gruden two drafts/free agent signings periods, yep, two seasons. I don't see a quick fix but I do see the Raiders a serious AFC Champ contender 2020ish. He needs a defense and will build one.

Love the move.

The NFL is better when my Niners and the Raiders are in the mix.

[spurraider21]

I'm gonna go ahead and go into wait and see mode on this one. It's been awhile for old chuckster.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2636358-inside-jon-grudens-maniacal-obsession-with-football

[Green Man]

History says a coach who makes a comeback like this is probably going to fail. But Gruden is still relatively young. He’s got a solid QB to build on, and maybe he can get Amari Cooper to care about playing football again.

[IronMexican]

I don't know if Cooper has ever cared about football. When I saw him at Alabama, I figured he just wasn't a diva.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I don't know if Cooper has ever cared about football. When I saw him at Alabama, I figured he just wasn't a diva.

& they already cut Crabtree? So they don't really have an offense or defense. Lynch is too old. The rest are scatbacks. RT is lousy. Penn is probably gone, too. Carr is just decent.

[spurraider21]

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[spurraider21]

Damn. La Canfora is ALL over this

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[spurraider21]

:lol WTF is going on :lol

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[spurraider21]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/7eeb58519c249baa11066ad4b304d551/tenor.gif

[SuperCam]

losing record after the dungy earned superbowl tbh

[spurraider21]

losing record after the dungy earned superbowl tbh
where the opponent was the gruden built superbowl raider team

[Avante]

Gruden has stayed on top of todays NFL, and he's seen all the teams play unlike any other coach. His knowledge of the players/competition on a whole other level.

2020 I expect to see the Raiders in serious contention to win it all, ah....barring injuries of course.

Niners vs Raiders in a SB, how cool is that?

[Raven]

it smells like one of the biggest busts ever.. it smells like raiders raiding tbh. Although (https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=ubuntu&hs=I7H&channel=fs&dcr=0&q=Although&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwib2by76cHYAhWBNBQKHdtfDmEQvwUIJSgA) don't have anything against Gruden and obviously like Carr and Cooper a lot.. but still.

[DeadlyDynasty]

This is a winning move--whether you agree with the terms or not. This is an exciting hire for a team that needed a fire lit under its ass. FA's will flock there, the offense will reach new heights, and Gruden will demand accountability. It's also the perfect move for when the team relocates to Vegas

[spurraider21]

people shit on gruden for tampa's decline after the superbowl, but neglect the fact that the Gruden arrived to a team that just traded 2 first round picks AND 2 second rounds picks while not having a franchise qb in place. nobody is surviving that. he ended up dragging them back into the playoffs with the corpse of jeff garcia and got fired after a 9-7 season

[Chinook]

people shit on gruden for tampa's decline after the superbowl, but neglect the fact that the Gruden arrived to a team that just traded 2 first round picks AND 2 second rounds picks while not having a franchise qb in place. nobody is surviving that. he ended up dragging them back into the playoffs with the corpse of jeff garcia and got fired after a 9-7 season

He was mediocre in Tampa. You're making it sound like he was fired after like two years. He was there eight seasons, which is plenty long to recover from the trades to begin the decade. The truth is that most of the picks he got weren't really good players. Some of that was front-office related, like the owners apparently wanting Cadillac over Rodgers in 2005. But Tampa under him was a treadmill team that would collapse in big moments. The only reason why they were close was because of the defensive stalwarts they got under Dungy. Maybe Jon didn't really want to be there, and that's why the Bucs seemed like a soulless team for much of his tenure. But he absolutely deserves flack for how the tenure ended, even if firing him to bring in Raheem Moore wasn't the smartest idea.

[spurraider21]

He was mediocre in Tampa. You're making it sound like he was fired after like two years. He was there eight seasons, which is plenty long to recover from the trades to begin the decade. The truth is that most of the picks he got weren't really good players. Some of that was front-office related, like the owners apparently wanting Cadillac over Rodgers in 2005. But Tampa under him was a treadmill team that would collapse in big moments. The only reason why they were close was because of the defensive stalwarts they got under Dungy. Maybe Jon didn't really want to be there, and that's why the Bucs seemed like a soulless team for much of his tenure. But he absolutely deserves flack for how the tenure ended, even if firing him to bring in Raheem Moore wasn't the smartest idea.
Their lack of draft picks and salary cap position definitely were factors in their post SB decline.

A lot of teams missed on rodgers, and Cadillac always being in the shop hampered them quite a bit too since they kept whiffing at qb with mccown Simms and gradkowski. They became a fringe playoff team with the corpse of Jeff Garcia and he got canned after back to back 9-7 seasons. That’s a mark they’ve only bested once since he left.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Gruden has stayed on top of todays NFL, and he's seen all the teams play unlike any other coach. His knowledge of the players/competition on a whole other level.

2020 I expect to see the Raiders in serious contention to win it all, ah....barring injuries of course.

Niners vs Raiders in a SB, how cool is that?

Only because New England and Pittsburgh will likely be out of the picture by 2020.

Ben is gone in the next couple years, and who knows if Brady/Belichick survive this offseason together if they don't win the SB this year.


2020, I could see... Houston, Oakland, Jets, Cleveland being the real contenders in the AFC.

[Chinook]

Their lack of draft picks and salary cap position definitely were factors in their post SB decline.

A lot of teams missed on rodgers, and Cadillac always being in the shop hampered them quite a bit too since they kept whiffing at qb with mccown Simms and gradkowski. They became a fringe playoff team with the corpse of Jeff Garcia and he got canned after back to back 9-7 seasons. That’s a mark they’ve only bested once since he left.

Griese was mostly a bust, as was Johnson after his SB run. Simms might have been something had his spleen not exploded on him. McCown and Grad weren't supposed to be answers. Gruden got into the same funk Parcels did to end his tenure. He kept running old-ass Garcia because he didn't take the time to develop anyone else. Supposedly had he not been fired, his plan was to give the keys to Josh Johnson, a guy the next coach would call a "career-long backup" (which was supposed to be a compliment). For the team Tampa was under Dungy, getting a base-hit QB was fine. But if you're an offensive guru, you can't go eight years with nothing to show for it besides Earnest Graham and the breaking-down Davin Joseph. He left a team that had no talent and no direction. Maybe he should get credit for getting them to 9-7 with such a terrible roster, but he was around long enough to where the roster was his fault too.

I know you're trying to get excited about the hire, and hell, Jon had a great run in Oakland. But he was closer to John Harbaugh in terms of coaches: solid or even above average but not franchise-changing by any means. But hell, what was Pete Carroll before his 'Hawks tenure?

[spurraider21]

He’s more jim harbaugh than Jon, for better or worse

[spurraider21]

:lol they introduced him with a hype video and he walked in to the tune of Hells Bells... and ESPN held a 1 hour slot to air his press conference. most attention the raiders have gotten since they made the superbowl

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[spurraider21]

also, more generally, mark davis has been a pleasant surprise as an owner. like his father, has limited pockets (in the context of an NFL owner), but unlike his father, knows little to nothing about football.

- able to work out the raiders relocation as he didn't have the ability to fund a stadium
- despite that, has not been afraid to spend a lot of money on coaches. he's fully committed to seeing the team do well
- has been patient with Reggie McKenzie instead of being over-meddling. he acknowledges that he's not a football mind and acts accordingly
- he has gotten his guys. he wanted reggie mckenzie to run the team... he wanted jack del rio when gruden wasn't an option a few years ago (and JDR did turn the team around from a bottom-dweller)... he wanted Gruden to take them to the next level. he said at the press conference today that ever since his dad died, he had dreamed of uniting McKenzie with Gruden to run the Raiders. took six years, but got it done

[spurraider21]

:lmao

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[IronMexican]

:lol they introduced him with a hype video and he walked in to the tune of Hells Bells... and ESPN held a 1 hour slot to air his press conference. most attention the raiders have gotten since they made the superbowl

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You're forgetting the day Kiffin got fired

[spurraider21]

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https://media1.tenor.com/images/a48dadbb6f27d3c63eddf5f7820cbfb4/tenor.gif

[AlexJones]

Only the Raiders could pay 100 mil for trash. Shoulda just went after my nigga Matt Patricia

[spurraider21]

Good news: raiders now expected to bring crabtree back, and sounds like gruden wants to keep lynch, who played well last year

Bad news: hearing Gruden say he wants to add some 1998 elements to the offense while basically calling analytics useless (to be fair, was specifically referring to the electronic gps trackers and stuff)... yikes

[Raven]

Good news: raiders now expected to bring crabtree back, and sounds like gruden wants to keep lynch, who played well last year

Bad news: hearing Gruden say he wants to add some 1998 elements to the offense while basically calling analytics useless (to be fair, was specifically referring to the electronic gps trackers and stuff)... yikes

if you like crabtree or not, I'd say 7M is a lot of coin to pay for him.

[spurraider21]

if you like crabtree or not, I'd say 7M is a lot of coin to pay for him.
jarvis landry just got tagged for 16 mil lol

and this is the current FA pool... raiders are already pretty paper thin. after cooper/crabtree they dont really have a good WR. patterson is a good special teams/gadget player but he's not really running routes

Wide Receivers

Jaron Brown (http://www.nfl.com/player/jaronbrown/2541966/profile)
John Brown (http://www.nfl.com/player/johnbrown/2543847/profile)
Brice Butler (http://www.nfl.com/player/bricebutler/2541388/profile)
Eric Decker (http://www.nfl.com/player/ericdecker/497284/profile)
Bruce Ellington (http://www.nfl.com/player/bruceellington/2543646/profile)
Michael Floyd (http://www.nfl.com/player/michaelfloyd/2532841/profile)
Taylor Gabriel (http://www.nfl.com/player/taylorgabriel/2550617/profile)
Jarvis Landry (http://www.nfl.com/player/jarvislandry/2543488/profile)
Cody Latimer (http://www.nfl.com/player/codylatimer/2543590/profile)
Marqise Lee (http://www.nfl.com/player/marqiselee/2543475/profile)
Jordan Matthews (http://www.nfl.com/player/jordanmatthews/2543500/profile)
Donte Moncrief (http://www.nfl.com/player/dontemoncrief/2543614/profile)
Terrelle Pryor (http://www.nfl.com/player/terrellepryor/2531332/profile)
Brian Quick (http://www.nfl.com/player/brianquick/2532933/profile)
Paul Richardson (http://www.nfl.com/player/paulrichardson/2543491/profile)
Allen Robinson (http://www.nfl.com/player/allenrobinson/2543509/profile)
Mike Wallace (http://www.nfl.com/player/mikewallace/2507763/profile)
Sammy Watkins (http://www.nfl.com/player/sammywatkins/2543457/profile)
Albert Wilson (http://www.nfl.com/player/albertwilson/2550272/profile)
Kendall Wright (http://www.nfl.com/player/kendallwright/2532977/profile)

not a lot of options there. jags will retain allen robinson. hope pryor bounces back and is a reliable starter? hope decker can be a viable starter to replace crabtree has the chain mover?

[Raven]

jarvis landry just got tagged for 16 mil lol

and this is the current FA pool... raiders are already pretty paper thin. after cooper/crabtree they dont really have a good WR. patterson is a good special teams/gadget player but he's not really running routes

Wide Receivers

Jaron Brown (http://www.nfl.com/player/jaronbrown/2541966/profile)
John Brown (http://www.nfl.com/player/johnbrown/2543847/profile)
Brice Butler (http://www.nfl.com/player/bricebutler/2541388/profile)
Eric Decker (http://www.nfl.com/player/ericdecker/497284/profile)
Bruce Ellington (http://www.nfl.com/player/bruceellington/2543646/profile)
Michael Floyd (http://www.nfl.com/player/michaelfloyd/2532841/profile)
Taylor Gabriel (http://www.nfl.com/player/taylorgabriel/2550617/profile)
Jarvis Landry (http://www.nfl.com/player/jarvislandry/2543488/profile)
Cody Latimer (http://www.nfl.com/player/codylatimer/2543590/profile)
Marqise Lee (http://www.nfl.com/player/marqiselee/2543475/profile)
Jordan Matthews (http://www.nfl.com/player/jordanmatthews/2543500/profile)
Donte Moncrief (http://www.nfl.com/player/dontemoncrief/2543614/profile)
Terrelle Pryor (http://www.nfl.com/player/terrellepryor/2531332/profile)
Brian Quick (http://www.nfl.com/player/brianquick/2532933/profile)
Paul Richardson (http://www.nfl.com/player/paulrichardson/2543491/profile)
Allen Robinson (http://www.nfl.com/player/allenrobinson/2543509/profile)
Mike Wallace (http://www.nfl.com/player/mikewallace/2507763/profile)
Sammy Watkins (http://www.nfl.com/player/sammywatkins/2543457/profile)
Albert Wilson (http://www.nfl.com/player/albertwilson/2550272/profile)
Kendall Wright (http://www.nfl.com/player/kendallwright/2532977/profile)

not a lot of options there. jags will retain allen robinson. hope pryor bounces back and is a reliable starter? hope decker can be a viable starter to replace crabtree has the chain mover?

Decker is a lot better imo, but my point is just that there's no way he'd get this money on the open market and the least that should happen, is him taking a pay cut.

[spurraider21]

Decker is a lot better imo, but my point is just that there's no way he'd get this money on the open market and the least that should happen, is him taking a pay cut.
maybe 3 years ago. decker has fallen off a cliff with injuries. to be fair, crabtree is coming off a bad year, too.

[spurraider21]

I think we might be needing to draft a corner high yet again.

Signing Rashaan Melvin was a big one, but we let go of Sean Smith, David Amerson (both disappointed after getting paid), and TJ Carrie. Only other corner we brought in was Shareece Wright and he's just a body, not a starting caliber player. Gareon Conley and Melvin should be a good enough starting duo, but we have no depth to speak of.

Otherwise, replaced Crabtree with Jordy Nelson, so not a lot of movement there. Nelson has lost his speed but is as good a possession receiver as Crabtree has been, but without the drama. Downside is guaranteeing his deal, whereas Crabtree had nothing guaranteed left.

Marcus Gilchrist and Tahir Whitehead are quality signings.

Nothing else of note, signing a backup tight end, a fullback, and Doug Martin to spell Lynch (though what they're showing in camp/preseason could shake things up).

Still waiting on Mack's extension. He's worth whatever they pay him.

[spurraider21]

Replaced 29 year old Bowman with 35 year old Derrick Johnson and are now bringing in Brian Cushing in for a visit.

They really couldn't come to terms with Bowman? smh

This defense is really banking on a bunch of rookie/second year players to be very very good... and soon. Gareon Conley, Obi Melifonwu need to be strong in the secondary, and they really need Mo Hurst and PJ Hall to be difference making D-Tackles. Otherwise it's going to be ugly.

Poor drafting outside of 2014 has really hampered this team. Not enough rookie-contract guys being impact starters. McKenzie has always stressed signing cheap veterans and building through the draft, but they've only really been doing one of those lately.

[spurraider21]

correction:

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[Blake]

I think we might be needing to draft a corner high yet again.

Signing Rashaan Melvin was a big one, but we let go of Sean Smith, David Amerson (both disappointed after getting paid), and TJ Carrie. Only other corner we brought in was Shareece Wright and he's just a body, not a starting caliber player. Gareon Conley and Melvin should be a good enough starting duo, but we have no depth to speak of.

Otherwise, replaced Crabtree with Jordy Nelson, so not a lot of movement there. Nelson has lost his speed but is as good a possession receiver as Crabtree has been, but without the drama. Downside is guaranteeing his deal, whereas Crabtree had nothing guaranteed left.

Marcus Gilchrist and Tahir Whitehead are quality signings.

Nothing else of note, signing a backup tight end, a fullback, and Doug Martin to spell Lynch (though what they're showing in camp/preseason could shake things up).

Still waiting on Mack's extension. He's worth whatever they pay him.

Overpaid for Jordy.

Too bad Crab is such a diva. I thought he was a great fit otherwise for the Raiders with Cooper on the other side.

[spurraider21]

Overpaid for Jordy.

Too bad Crab is such a diva. I thought he was a great fit otherwise for the Raiders with Cooper on the other side.
they gave jordy whatever they were paying crabtree. and only his first year is guaranteed. 2nd year has some guarantees but only for injury. so its probably a one year pact. crabtree had 1 year left on his deal. so really no difference there.

and yeah, bittersweet with crabtree. guy resurrected his career here and gave us 2 great years before bottoming out last season

the real problem has been McKenzie's drafting. he's still living off the 2014 draft where he got Mack, Carr, Gabe Jackson, Justin Ellis, and TJ Carrie. an A+ draft there, but he's been pretty awful every other year. this year's draft has a ton of boom/bust potential, but i have no issue with Gruden having some say in drafting. McKenzie doesn't really inspire confidence with his draft history.

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[spurraider21]

McKenzie took over in 2012.

- nobody from the 2012 class is on our roster
- nobody from the 2013 class in on our roster
- 2014 class was a home run. 4 starters on our roster, and TJ Carrie signed a big FA deal to go to Cleveland
- only 3 guys from 2015 class on our roster. two of them starting (cooper and mario edwards), the other is a reserve G/C
- only 1 starter from 2016 class (joseph). would not be entirely shocking if the rest get cut this summer (connor cook, deandre washington, vadal alexander)

book is out on 2017, obviously, but our first 2 picks missed basically the whole year to injury. we also drafted 2 tackles, but then new regime drafted 2 tackles this draft, so those guys are probably on notice. only one surefire starter (conley), and one who has to earn his way on the field (melifonwu). the rest are rotational/reserve guys

[spurraider21]

only having 8-9 starters from 6 draft classes is pretty abysmal. and you can only afford so many starting caliber free agents in their 20's. thats how you end up with a team relying on cheap veterans to hold it down.

[Blake]

they gave jordy whatever they were paying crabtree. and only his first year is guaranteed. 2nd year has some guarantees but only for injury. so its probably a one year pact. crabtree had 1 year left on his deal. so really no difference there.

and yeah, bittersweet with crabtree. guy resurrected his career here and gave us 2 great years before bottoming out last season

If there was no difference why release him? Did they really come out that much ahead on salary cap?

[spurraider21]

If there was no difference why release him? Did they really come out that much ahead on salary cap?
nah, cap wise they're in roughly an identical position. they wanted to part ways because of his diva tendencies, as you alluded to. he did basically quit on the team last few weeks of the season. and he had quite a bit of drops for the guy who is our possession receiver.

ultimately, i dont think they were going to cut him, however, because they weren't going to find anybody at a comparable talent level who would sign on for 7-8 mil per year. the top FA's all got paid way more. they only moved to let him go after nelson was cut and they agreed to terms with him for 7.5.

the release of crabtree and signing of nelson happened like 5 minutes apart. they ultimately figured Nelson will produce about as well as they wanted Crabtree to, but with less of a headache

personally, i liked crabtree, but he was coming off an ugly year. i dont think the nelson-crabtree swap really moves the needle for the team. martavis bryant could, though. the offensive personnel isn't really the problem. it's up to gruden to oil the machine and get it going again. the season is really going to come down to how the young guys on defense perform. it cant just be 10 guys making no impact + khalil mack doing something amazing once a game

[Blake]

nah, cap wise they're in roughly an identical position. they wanted to part ways because of his diva tendencies, as you alluded to.

Yeah I'd concur with them that's enough to cut him especially if he's not producing/getting suspended

[spurraider21]

Yeah I'd concur with them that's enough to cut him especially if he's not producing/getting suspended
the main downside is that nelson is a couple years older than crabtree. though neither guy is really separating that easily anymore. crabtree was never fast to begin with. they both run good routes and have good hands/body control. if martavis bryant pans out, they can let nelson go and give that money to bryant as the younger option going forward.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Martavis Bryant
Gareon Conley
Aldon Smith
Arden Key

lol... feel like I'm missing someone

[spurraider21]

Martavis Bryant
Gareon Conley
Aldon Smith
Arden Key

lol... feel like I'm missing someone
randy Gregory and greg hardy?

[UNT Eagles 2016]

randy Gregory and greg hardy?

Hardy was a bad experiment and a knee jerk reaction to having no pass rush the year before. They wanted nothing to do with him by midseason that year.

Gregory, by all accounts, is a good guy who just happens to be a big time pot stoner. No DV, DUIs, hard drugs, effort issues, locker room issues, felonies etc. All he does is like to smoke pot. Which Goodell has a major problem with.

[spurraider21]

also raiders already let aldon smith walk a while ago

[spurraider21]

raiders cut Obi Melifonwu... 2nd round pick just a year ago. super exciting prospect at the time given his size/speed at the position, but never able to stay on the field. missed training camp/preseason both years and thus was never able to get coached/developed, so he's still pretty raw.

hope he recovers and becomes a player, but raiders patience wore thin. can't blame them, but its another knock of McKenzie's drafting. not that you can predict injury, but using high draft pick for raw "upside" players who become useless unless they get a ton of teaching reps.

mckenzie certainly on the hot seat, still riding the lottery of the 2014 draft class.

[Avante]

The Raiders have five other safeties in camp right now, they can't be expected to hang onto a guy who can't contribute. Smart move.

[spurraider21]

The Raiders have five other safeties in camp right now, they can't be expected to hang onto a guy who can't contribute. Smart move.
i'm amazed that you stayed on topic and didnt give some stupid list about "greatest raiders safeties of the 1940's.

but i agree with your point. draft pedigree only carries you so far. its a shame obi didnt pan out... but between Joseph/Nelson/Gilchrist they have viable starters, Gruden has been talking up Erik Harris all offseason, and Luani is a core special teamer. they just didnt have enough room to give Obi another year.

[spurraider21]

on another note, its kinda sad to hear from just about every beat writer that Doug Martin is considered a lock to make the roster. It's conceivable that he has some gas in the tank and could bounce back (we saw that with Lynch), but if Marshawn is going to be the main guy, and Jalen Richard is going to be the likely 3rd down/receiving back, then Martin isn't really moving the needle. Chris Warren has been the talk of camp and has been incredible so far in the preseason. Warren is the between the tackle bruiser, so he's not really competing with Richard, but rather with Lynch/Martin.

I get that Marshawn is "the guy" for now, but I really think they should consider cutting Martin and keeping the younger, higher upside player in Warren. Having a veteran backup RB (who will likely not see too many touches) to a veteran starter is just sorta wasting a roster spot at the expense of keeping a young talent. Warren could be a viable starter for a few years after Lynch hangs em up. Martin? not so much.

[Avante]

i'm amazed that you stayed on topic and didnt give some stupid list about "greatest raiders safeties of the 1940's.

but i agree with your point. draft pedigree only carries you so far. its a shame obi didnt pan out... but between Joseph/Nelson/Gilchrist they have viable starters, Gruden has been talking up Erik Harris all offseason, and Luani is a core special teamer. they just didnt have enough room to give Obi another year.

Stupid is ignoring your teams history. Dude, the 40's? The AFL kicked off in 1960.

Obi was out of U of Connecticut, but.....highly thought of coming out of the NCAA, he was ranked in top 4-6 (depend on who was doing the rating) safeties entering the draft. As you mentioned he had that size/speed combo working for him. But, not sure "raw" applies.

Gruden will let it be known he expects you to be there if not.....see ya. So this does send a message to all those who milk an injury.

[Avante]

on another note, its kinda sad to hear from just about every beat writer that Doug Martin is considered a lock to make the roster. It's conceivable that he has some gas in the tank and could bounce back (we saw that with Lynch), but if Marshawn is going to be the main guy, and Jalen Richard is going to be the likely 3rd down/receiving back, then Martin isn't really moving the needle. Chris Warren has been the talk of camp and has been incredible so far in the preseason. Warren is the between the tackle bruiser, so he's not really competing with Richard, but rather with Lynch/Martin.

I get that Marshawn is "the guy" for now, but I really think they should consider cutting Martin and keeping the younger, higher upside player in Warren. Having a veteran backup RB (who will likely not see too many touches) to a veteran starter is just sorta wasting a roster spot at the expense of keeping a young talent. Warren could be a viable starter for a few years after Lynch hangs em up. Martin? not so much.

I totally agree. Warren is 6-3 250 and left Texas with a gaudy 5.7 average. This could be the real "BEAST"for the Raiders in 2018. One of his Texas seasons he averaged over 6 yards a carry, and he's no ....out in space...type.

Martin was let go for a reason, and while he's had a couple solid seasons he has never been consistant.

[spurraider21]

I totally agree. Warren is 6-3 250 and left Texas with a gaudy 5.7 average. This could be the real "BEAST"for the Raiders in 2018. One of his Texas seasons he averaged over 6 yards a carry, and he's no ....out in space...type.

Martin was let go for a reason, and while he's had a couple solid seasons he has never been consistant.
yeah. it's not even that i necessarily think Martin is going to play poorly this year, but even if he plays well, it would be in a very limited backup role, and the value in that is not good enough to let a potential future starter get signed elsewhere. i have read elsewhere that they may consider keeping 4 running backs (lynch, martin, richard, warren)... but that's a lot of running backs, and i think they should just let martin go if warren continues his strong preseason play. but from everything i've read, that seems unlikely

[Avante]

yeah. it's not even that i necessarily think Martin is going to play poorly this year, but even if he plays well, it would be in a very limited backup role, and the value in that is not good enough to let a potential future starter get signed elsewhere. i have read elsewhere that they may consider keeping 4 running backs (lynch, martin, richard, warren)... but that's a lot of running backs, and i think they should just let martin go if warren continues his strong preseason play. but from everything i've read, that seems unlikely

You need at least 4 RB's and that is usually the norm. That actually is the way to go there.


Running backs (4)
With the NFL becoming a passing league, most teams still keep four backs on the 53-man roster due to injury history at the position. Most NFL teams employ a backfield by committee approach and most teams include a fullback in this number.
Special teams play a huge role in this number as well. Most running backs have speed and can be a force on special teams.
One of the best in the NFL is Jacksonville Jaguars running back Montell Owens (http://bangordailynews.com/2012/01/29/sports/football/former-umaine-standout-added-to-afc-pro-bowl-roster/). Though he is listed as a fullback now that Greg Jones has departed, Owens was seen as a special teams demon and Pro Bowl player. This increases his value and keeps him active on game day.
If a team like Jacksonville dresses a fullback for the game, it will probably dress three other running backs as well. The starter, the primary backup and a special teams player should all dress on game day.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Flacco seems to really like his new weapons, particularly. They developed a fast rapport. Still need more from the stud TE but he's slinging it with confidence again

[spurraider21]

You need at least 4 RB's and that is usually the norm. That actually is the way to go there.


Running backs (4)
With the NFL becoming a passing league, most teams still keep four backs on the 53-man roster due to injury history at the position. Most NFL teams employ a backfield by committee approach and most teams include a fullback in this number.
Special teams play a huge role in this number as well. Most running backs have speed and can be a force on special teams.
One of the best in the NFL is Jacksonville Jaguars running back Montell Owens (http://bangordailynews.com/2012/01/29/sports/football/former-umaine-standout-added-to-afc-pro-bowl-roster/). Though he is listed as a fullback now that Greg Jones has departed, Owens was seen as a special teams demon and Pro Bowl player. This increases his value and keeps him active on game day.
If a team like Jacksonville dresses a fullback for the game, it will probably dress three other running backs as well. The starter, the primary backup and a special teams player should all dress on game day.
thats the key, though. the raiders already have a fullback (keith smith) who is a roster lock. usually teams will keep 3 traditional "running backs" and one fullback.

[Avante]

thats the key, though. the raiders already have a fullback (keith smith) who is a roster lock. usually teams will keep 3 traditional "running backs" and one fullback.

The old Jim Brown the greatest RB ever, when he was actually a FB. I always clump RB/FB together as that guy did.

[spurraider21]

The old Jim Brown the greatest RB ever, when he was actually a FB. I always clump RB/FB together as that guy did.
the meaning has changed. you know that.

[Avante]

the meaning has changed. you know that.

We will hear RB/FB totally ignored all of this season at every level of football. And it's always been that way.

No team has two "FB" and teams like the Colts, Bengals, Dolphins, Niners, Rams, Falcons, Redskins,Eagles, list no FB at all and all will keep 4 RB's.

Teams need players who can run for special teams, that means WR, DB's and RB's.

It's does go like this.....

Running backs (4)

[spurraider21]

We will hear RB/FB totally ignored all of this season at every level of football. And it's always been that way.

No team has two "FB" and teams like the Colts, Bengals, Dolphins, Niners, Rams, Falcons, Redskins,Eagles, list no FB at all and all will keep 4 RB's.

Teams need players who can run for special teams, that means WR, DB's and RB's.

It's does go like this.....

Running backs (4)
i know that some teams carry no true "fullbacks" and keep 4 running backs

i'm telling you that the raiders have one true "fullback" and that is keith smith. his roster spot is assured. and so if the raiders were going to go with the traditional "4 running backs (including fullbacks)" model, then they would only have room for 3 other running backs (lynch, richard, and one of martin/warren)

[Avante]

[QUOTE=spurraider21;9518251]i know that some teams carry no true "fullbacks" and keep 4 running backs

i'm telling you that the raiders have one true "fullback" and that is keith smith. his roster spot is assured. and so if the raiders were going to go with the traditional "4 running backs (including fullbacks)" model, then they would only have room for 3 other running backs (lynch, richard, and one of martin/warren)[/QUOTE

Watch them keep a FB and four RB's. Hell, the Eagles will be keeping five RB's unless they change things.

Usually one of your RB's can bang the line and block. Why have a slower player which a FB is?

[spurraider21]

Watch them keep a FB and four RB's. Hell, the Eagles will be keeping five RB's unless they change things.
maybe they will, at the expense of another roster spot.


Usually one of your RB's can bang the line and block. Why have a slower player which a FB is?
because keith smith does it much much better than doug martin or chris warren.

remember what tony richardson did for priest holmes, or lorenzo neal for tomlinson

[Avante]

Got it.

Lorenzo Neal belongs in the HOF, what a monster. I worked with his uncle Willie Neal who ran on the same 4x1 team with Tommie Smith at Lemoore HS, the school Lorenzo attended. Lorenzo's dad a preacher.

I'd want more TE's, use them as lead blockers with that threat of will they block or go out for a pass. And let them run the ball just to plant that seed.....also.

[spurraider21]

Got it.

Lorenzo Neal belongs in the HOF, what a monster. I worked with his uncle Willie Neal who ran on the same 4x1 team with Tommie Smith at Lemoore HS, the school Lorenzo attended. Lorenzo's dad a preacher.

I'd want more TE's, use them as lead blockers with that threat of will they block or go out for a pass. And let them run the ball just to plant that seed.....also.
yep. this is basically what Marcel Reece was for the Raiders for a few years. although they listed him as fullback, he was as much a passcatcher as he was a lead blocker

[Avante]

yep. this is basically what Marcel Reece was for the Raiders for a few years. although they listed him as fullback, he was as much a passcatcher as he was a lead blocker

Actually Reece was a WR coming out of Washington. FB...???

[spurraider21]

Actually Reece was a WR coming out of Washington. FB...???
and yet he was the raiders fullback for several years

[Avante]

and yet he was the raiders fullback for several years

I know, that was....why the move to FB? When to we see college WR's becoming pro FB's?

[spurraider21]

Breno Giacomini released
Raven

:danceclub

[spurraider21]

are the raiders really going to fuck this up with Khalil Mack? fuck

[Robz4000]

Heard the Raiders are on the verge of sending Mack to the Seacucks.

[Avante]

If this has anything to do with Gruden trying to send some message, HUGE mistake. You do what it takes to keep a stud like Mack, this is totally stupid.

[spurraider21]

Heard the Raiders are on the verge of sending Mack to the Seacucks.
Raiders beat writers keep insisting there’s really nothing new. Just no progress.

[leemajors]

Ward probably isn't making the roster in Dallas after impressing early in camp, and Switzer already got traded from the Raiders.

[spurraider21]

1035332209979346945
1035407893548347393

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2014/01/dr-evil-crying1.gif

[spurraider21]

https://twitter.com/BobCarrNFL/status/1035615807760297984

this guy is fairly legit. i used to post on his forum as multiple users there were actually pretty well connected with the Raiders staff and they have all kinds of insider stuff. but at some point they added a paywall where all the scoops were on the "premium forum" and the regular forum was just trash. but for some reason he decided to share this publicly today

from the website


I haven’t had the chance to rebuild PREMIUM yet, so I’m putting this here.

Sources close to Raiderfans.net are reporting that they expect the Raiders and Mack to have deal in place by Week 1. Don’t believe all the trade rumors, this deal will get done. We expect an extension to include around $90 million in guarantees and the contract to be 5 or 6 years.

More news as we hear it!

http://www.raiderfans.net/forum/showthread.php?2232-Mack-to-be-signed-by-week-1

[Architects08]

Raiders would be crazy not to lock this guy up long term.

[Pelicans78]

Looks like Mack is going to the Bears.

[chunticakes]

Looks like Mack is going to the Raiders.

You mean Bears?

Sorry spurraider21 :depressed

[Pelicans78]

You mean Bears?

Sorry spurraider21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=31905) :depressed

Yup lol

[spurraider21]

What a dumpster fire. And lol at me for buying the post above.

I dont believe this move.

[Bill_Brasky]

Gruden is shit.

[Mugen]

What a clown fucking franchise and fuck Jon Gruden. This has been the worst sports offseason of my life tbh :lol

[Trill Clinton]

Talk about hustling backwards

[djohn2oo8]

Lol paying Gruden 100 mil but not Mack

[Holden_Caulfield]

Lol the fuck. Carr about to throw 50+ per game playing catch up

[chunticakes]

Lol the fuck. Carr about to throw 50+ per game playing catch up

His value just shot through the roof. What's the bidding starting at?

[Will Hunting]

Two firsts, a third and a sixth. Nice trade for Oakland imo.

[Pelicans78]

Two firsts, a third and a sixth. Nice trade for Oakland imo.

I think they also give up a 2nd and a potential 5th.

[Holden_Caulfield]

Oh shit aj McCarron. Raiders yall funny today

[Raven]

Breno Giacomini released
Raven (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=35860)

:danceclub


What a dumpster fire. And lol at me for buying the post above.

I dont believe this move.

You have been punished for your lack of faith.

[Isitjustme?]

:lmao Gruden

[spurraider21]

I learned the Mack shit in the airport terminal on my way to Hawaii. Ruined my mood for a full day. Don’t understand what Gruden is doing. Signs vets to win now and trades the best player signaling rebuild ahead.

Martavis bryant just a cherry on top. And IF you’re going to trade mack, do it early in the off-season so you can at least spend the 14 mil he was slated to earn. Not blow it on a backup qb

[lefty20]

Don't think it's a rebuild. Just didn't wanna pony up the $$$.

I'm not sure what Pace is doing. This was a win now move in a division with 2 clearly superior teams. And the Bears FO is acting like Trubisky is a polished product already.

[Avante]

If I'm Gruden I make it known (to just the owner) I'm cool with my "ALL" $$$$ to work out deal with Mack.

[spurraider21]

the offensive gameplan was understandable... and it worked well in the first half. avoid dealing with Suh/Donald and Talib/Peters by having your offense centered around the run and quick throws to tight ends/running backs. makes sense, and its the only way the raiders have had success against denver in recent years (except they have great edge rushers instead of interior rushers). but once they ran out of scripted playcalls, the offense went completely dull... which is exactly what happened to the bears against the packers too

it looks like gruden wants to run the old offense that rich gannon ran so well... but that's predicated on a qb who can play virtually mistake free and with extreme precision for long stretches. this doesn't bode well for Carr. alex smith would be a better fit for the offense we tried to run yesterday. i want to say that Carr thrives on the intermediate passing game, but tbh i haven't seen him let it rip down the field since 2016, so i dont know if its gruden holding carr back or if carr's ability is limiting gruden's playbook. rams D make some good adjustments in the 2nd half (placed talib on jared cook), but oakland failed to re-calibrate and instead went to shit

i dont care how scared you are of the other teams corners. you have to get the ball to cooper since he's proven do be a dangerous YAC guy that can turn short screens/slants into long touchdowns.

the defense predictably lacked playmaking, but imo they were holding their own until mid-late third quarter after successive 3-and-outs by the offense left them gassed.

[Avante]

the offensive gameplan was understandable... and it worked well in the first half. avoid dealing with Suh/Donald and Talib/Peters by having your offense centered around the run and quick throws to tight ends/running backs. makes sense, and its the only way the raiders have had success against denver in recent years (except they have great edge rushers instead of interior rushers). but once they ran out of scripted playcalls, the offense went completely dull... which is exactly what happened to the bears against the packers too

it looks like gruden wants to run the old offense that rich gannon ran so well... but that's predicated on a qb who can play virtually mistake free and with extreme precision for long stretches. this doesn't bode well for Carr. alex smith would be a better fit for the offense we tried to run yesterday. i want to say that Carr thrives on the intermediate passing game, but tbh i haven't seen him let it rip down the field since 2016, so i dont know if its gruden holding carr back or if carr's ability is limiting gruden's playbook. rams D make some good adjustments in the 2nd half (placed talib on jared cook), but oakland failed to re-calibrate and instead went to shit

i dont care how scared you are of the other teams corners. you have to get the ball to cooper since he's proven do be a dangerous YAC guy that can turn short screens/slants into long touchdowns.

the defense predictably lacked playmaking, but imo they were holding their own until mid-late third quarter after successive 3-and-outs by the offense left them gassed.


Oakland isn't going to beat a quality team without a pass rush. They were 6-10 WITH Mack.

Reality....6-10 again, more 5-11 than 7-9.

[HarlemHeat37]

I knew the Raiders would be terrible and figured Gruden was way out of touch, but he's surprisingly doing a great job gathering assets..

Trading the overrated Mack before paying him made a lot of sense, since the Raiders aren't going to win right now with one the worst QBs in the NFL..getting a #1 for an average WR is one of the best moves in years:lol

[Holden_Caulfield]

A top 5 pick plus all these assets and if somehow they can unload Carr for anything it's looking like Herbert will be the new franchise QB of the Las Vegas Raiders

[SuperCam]

great move by chucky tbh, getting a mid first will speed up the rebuild from the post carr wreck era and all you had to give up was a mediocre receiving talent :tu


silver lining for cowshit fans is that Cooper is used to playing with a bad qb already

[leemajors]

Lynch to IR.

[Chris]

Couch mode

[Millennial_Messiah]

A top 5 pick plus all these assets and if somehow they can unload Carr for anything it's looking like Herbert will be the new franchise QB of the Las Vegas Raiders

Herbert staying in schoo for senior year.


Probably the Hawaiian lefty Alabama dude in 2020.

[AlexJones]

I knew the Raiders would be terrible and figured Gruden was way out of touch, but he's surprisingly doing a great job gathering assets..

Trading the overrated Mack before paying him made a lot of sense, since the Raiders aren't going to win right now with one the worst QBs in the NFL..getting a #1 for an average WR is one of the best moves in years:lol

His next step is to replace Carr. The man knows what he's doing.. he's just faking being out of touch imo

[Millennial_Messiah]

His next step is to replace Carr. The man knows what he's doing.. he's just faking being out of touch imo

Don't know why he isn't at least trading a 2nd or 3rd for him. Don't hold out for a 1st. They already have enough 1sts.

[spurraider21]

Don't know why he isn't at least trading a 2nd or 3rd for him. Don't hold out for a 1st. They already have enough 1sts.
the giants will give more than a first in the offseason. the eagles were offered a first + fourth for Foles

[Millennial_Messiah]

the giants will give more than a first in the offseason. the eagles were offered a first + fourth for Foles

Foles is gone in free agency after this year, and the Eagles aren't winning a damn thing this year. If this is true, Doug Pederson is stupider than I thought.


Giants trade away a top 5 pick for an average at best QB (with any other picks or not), they deserve to be fucked forever.


Carr is one of those OL dependent QB's. He was Pro Bowl caliber in 2016 because he had the top ranked OL in the NFL that year. This year, it's fallen apart. It wouldn't be better for him in that department if he went to the Giants.

[Millennial_Messiah]

On a side note, spurraider21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=31905) , I'm beginning to love what Jon Gruden is going from a Raiders perspective. He's basically using the last of the Oakland years as tanking proxy like the OKC Thunder's last couple in Seattle (when they drafted Durant/Westbrook, etc). He's going to build a helluva team that will compete with Mahomes and Co. for not only divisional supremacy, but AFC supremacy in 4-5 years.

Sure, if they kept guys like Mack and Cooper around, they'd be an 8-8 or so team, but who the hell wants to be that? That was their ceiling, especially with the old and declining OL, and Gruden knew it. He wants to start from scratch and build a young championship contender. Tough to tank and accumulate oodles of cap space when you have a HOF caliber $22 million a year edge defender on your roster who is older than the rest of your core. Instead they save $110+ Million over five years that can be spread around at any point in the future to their new young core (since cap space carries over).

[spurraider21]

mack should have been kept regardless. if they're planning on dumping Carr anyway, then the whole "you cant afford to pay 2 guys that kind of money" excuse no longer flies.

the mack trade was a disaster imo. in every way. the decision, the compensation, and the timing.

[Millennial_Messiah]

mack should have been kept regardless. if they're planning on dumping Carr anyway, then the whole "you cant afford to pay 2 guys that kind of money" excuse no longer flies.

the mack trade was a disaster imo. in every way. the decision, the compensation, and the timing.
Right, Mack was a superstar, but even with the money, would Mack really want to spend his prime years playing for a completely rebuilding from scratch team? Trubisky is bad right now, but there's hope he gets better soon enough. Not the same with Carr; he peaked before his broken leg injury and before the offensive line got old and injured. He's probably top-tier backup NFL QB quality at this point, which is fair considering where he was drafted.

Let's say Mack is good enough to decide and win 3-4 games per regular season on his own. Doesn't that also hurt the tank job? Also, that $141 million dollars over 6 years would add to the giant pile of money needed to re-sign the new generation of stars in 4-5 years. It's not that they can't afford Mack now; it's that not having a star who will be close to 30 when the next generation is up for new contracts will open up their window to re-sign all of their own and add a few mercenaries to have a long championship window by then. It's a very long-winded variation for Gruden, but I think it's going to work out. They just have to get QB right for starters, and if Herbert isn't coming out this year, they should wait until 2020 to draft the right QB.

[Pelicans78]

Reggie McKenzie fired.

[spurraider21]

he was definitely a big upgrade to 2000's/2010's Al Davis. he's been good about keeping us in a comfortable cap spot. his free agent signings have been very hit and miss, but he generally structures contracts so that we can move on in 1 or 2 years if things dont go well (Sean Smith) without any cap penalties, but he also delivered with some big signings that panned out well (Rodney Hudson, Michael Crabtree)

his tenure started off quite poorly by hiring Dennis Allen, who simply wasn't ready and was pretty incompetent. but he did well to bring in Jack Del Rio, who assembled a pretty solid staff and turned the team around. but his undoing was poor drafting. outside of maybe a handful of picks, our draft classes have been disasters. the FO also made the poor decision of letting Bill Musgrave go (who had turned the Raiders into a top tier offense) in favor of the young "up and comer" Todd Downing. our offense went to shit last year and that ultimately led to Del Rio's dismissal in favor of Gruden.

it's also fairly clear that McKenzie had no part in the firing of Del Rio and hiring of Gruden.

ultimately McKenzie was a decent GM who took a team from ground zero and gave a promising product for a few years which fizzled out due to poor drafting and over-reliance on FA's to fill those voids. He should get work elsewhere. This also cements Gruden as the Czar of the Raiders.

[spurraider21]

for reference, McKenzie's first draft as GM with the Raiders was in 2012.

0 players from the 2012 draft class are on the roster
0 players from the 2013 draft class are on the roster
3 players from the 2014 draft class are on the roster (Carr, Gabe Jackson, Justin Ellis)... this was his home run drafted. Also Khalil Mack
1 player from the 2015 draft class is on the roster (backup C, Jon Feliciano)... Amari Cooper also here
3 players from the 2016 draft class are on the roster (1 starter)
4 players from the 2017 class are on the roster (1 starter)

to only have 11 draft picks on your roster after 6 years is pretty crap. only 5 of our 22 starters are guys we drafted.

[Chucho]

He did a good job of getting out of cap hell, tho, tbh.

[Chucho]

Above all tho, I really feel bad for the Oakland area fans. I dont know if there is a more loyal, fierce fanbase in all of sports and I thought it was the Cowboy fanbase living in Texas for so long, but being here the last ten years I think Raider fans are a more loyal fanbase instead of the typical retarded, bud light drinking tool always saying, "but..but five rings" when they get shat all over for being irrelevant and unsuccessful for a quarter century.

I feel an NFL team has a good shot at bombing in Vegas and I hope they do because Oakland really loves their team and there are at least three NFL teams that should move before the Raiders.

[Chucho]

Sweet, the city of Oakland is suing the Raiders and the NFL.

Good. Hope they win. The exploitation and extortion of cities by sports teams is a real problem and needs a landmark judgement to stop that shit ASAP.

[spurraider21]

Sweet, the city of Oakland is suing the Raiders and the NFL.

Good. Hope they win. The exploitation and extortion of cities by sports teams is a real problem and needs a landmark judgement to stop that shit ASAP.
they aint winning shit tbh

[Chucho]

they aint winning shit tbh

Sad truth, but can always hope and wish. Sad indictment on our country how often it happens.

[leemajors]

Peterman now a raider.

[spurraider21]

butwhy.gif

[Millennial_Messiah]

butwhy.gif

Because Gruden wants to tank faster.

[spurraider21]

mike mayock hired as GM

wtf :lol... whats next, Mel Kiper as lead college scouting director?

[spurraider21]

on the bright side they kept reggie mckenzie's cap/contracts guy on board