Most frustrating team I've ever seen

[TD 21]

First off, Pop is awful . . .

- Every time it gets past 6-7 minutes without Gasol coming out, he resorts to Lauvergne
- Playing the entire bench together, when 1-2 aren't NBA players
- Putting in Murray for the final defensive possession, yet inexplicably having Anderson defend McCollum
- The final play is not the type you run for a traditional big and even if it were, you don't do it after you called timeout on the inbound because they obviously knew what was coming at that point

On the one hand, the rotation is in a constant state of flux, they're oftentimes playing unproven or fringe players and going down the stretch either playing through a traditional big, with a subpar handle and play making ability or a 40 year old guard, so you could argue the record, no matter the competition, is impressive. On the other hand, they can't score or create separation, particularly on the road and a rare time they do, they predictably find a way to lose anyway. Every single game is difficult. You'd think at some point, law of averages would kick in and they'd have a game where they shoot lights out and win comfortably.

[Robz4000]

Agreed, other than the 2013-14 Niners.

[Spurtacular]

Bert, Laverne, Bryn, Fatty (along with Manu) were out there for like the last four minutes of the third, giving up every bit of the lead we worked for and then some. :bang

[TheGreatYacht]

He'd be a homeless drunk without Duncan and Parker

[Chinook]

As long is Pau and LMA start together, it will be damned near impossible to stagger their minutes. This is just another case of that applying.

[Chinook]

Agreed, other than the 2013-14 Niners.

Bruh, that team's collapse was one of the easiest call's I've ever made.

[Stabula]

He'd be a homeless drunk without Duncan and Parker

[SAGirl]

As long is Pau and LMA start together, it will be damned near impossible to stagger their minutes. This is just another case of that applying.
You have a point.
I am not sure if PATFO realizes they have a Joff problem or if they never meant to play this way and have been forced into it by Kawhi and Rudy Gay injuries with Danny lately getting injured depleting them even more from the ability to play a more perimeter style some minutes.

Manu just had a terrific scoring game... and he couldn't carry that terrible bench bc they couldn't defend the rim, which is really the worst complaint about Joff.

[Spurtacular]

- Putting in Murray for the final defensive possession, yet inexplicably having Anderson defend McCollum


And I know it didn't exactly hurt us on that play; but why the fuck is Patty one of the five in on defense? Brandon Paul would've been a superior option, tbh.

[Robz4000]

Bruh, that team's collapse was one of the easiest call's I've ever made.

They collapsed, but they were also one dumb Kraep decision away from another SB (and prolly a win).

[Spurtacular]

I am not sure if PATFO realizes they have a Joff problem or if they never meant to play this way and have been forced into it by Kawhi and Rudy Gay injuries with Danny lately getting injured depleting them even more from the ability to play a more perimeter style some minutes.

Manu just had a terrific scoring game... and he couldn't carry that terrible bench bc they couldn't defend the rim, which is really the worst complaint about Joff.

Spurs scouting department just sucks. At Westchester, Jimmer played with a 7'2" center Jordan Bachynski. I felt he was a borderline NBA player. But he's way better than Joff. He had a nice post-up game, great passing, great finishing around the rim, good finesse, could make a mid range jumper to keep the defense honest; a bit like a mini Boban. I dunno what he's doing these days, but when I watch Joff out there I'm thinking to myself I know there was way better sh** out there. WTF

[sananspursfan21]

This is definitely the least talented team I’ve seen in my lifetime. Aldridge scoring 30 should have translated into an automatic win. The spurs should be undefeated when he scores 25 plus

[TD 21]

As long is Pau and LMA start together, it will be damned near impossible to stagger their minutes. This is just another case of that applying.

Bullshit. Every time he's able to sub Gasol out around mid quarter, they're able to successfully do it. They could do it even if they can't, but that would require thinking. He could have played a strict 3 big rotation tonight, with Bertans.



And I know it didn't exactly hurt us on that play; but why the fuck is Patty one of the five in on defense? Brandon Paul would've been a superior option, tbh.

Good point. Mills is often in for key defensive possessions. It's one thing when you don't intend to call a timeout after and want him in for offense, but that clearly wasn't the case in this instance. Without Leonard and Green and with McCollum the type he was presumably signed to guard, if Paul isn't guarding him on that possession, why sign him at all? Especially considering the lack of a viable third center option.

[Arcadian]

Lauvergne is the only other center on the roster, unfortunately.

[cd021]

Spurs scouting department just sucks. At Westchester, Jimmer played with a 7'2" center Jordan Bachynski. I felt he was a borderline NBA player. But he's way better than Joff. He had a nice post-up game, great passing, great finishing around the rim, good finesse, could make a mid range jumper to keep the defense honest; a bit like a mini Boban. I dunno what he's doing these days, but when I watch Joff out there I'm thinking to myself I know there was way better sh** out there. WTF
Spurs usually get very good value with free agent bigs ; West, Lee, Boban, Diaw, and Baynes all exceeded their minimum contracts values by being above average players at their positions.

Lavergne is easily the worst of the minimum contract big man signings, the fact that some people think that he is better than Ayers is staggering to me. Since that Utah game, Pop has been trying his best to not play him but its hard when he is the only other traditionally sized center on the roster.

[Spurtacular]

Good point. Mills is often in for key defensive possessions. It's one thing when you don't intend to call a timeout after and want him in for offense, but that clearly wasn't the case in this instance. Without Leonard and Green and with McCollum the type he was presumably signed to guard, if Paul isn't guarding him on that possession, why sign him at all? Especially considering the lack of a viable third center option.

The only thing I can think of is having in for FT's after a miss/foul; but that's still stupid, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

Lavergne is easily the worst of the minimum contract big man signings

It was another nod to Parker signing was it not? Most of his sh** has been pretty bad. Diaw is the exception, but he wasn't exactly a diamond in the rough.

[Spurtacular]

Lavergne...the fact that some people think that he is better than Ayers is staggering to me. .

Pendergraph actually had some useful applications, finishing around the rim, decent defense, good screen settings, some pic n' roll skills. Joff is just terrible at everything 'cept average screen setter.

[MaNu4Tres]

Lauvergne has no business getting PT or being in the NBA. Sub Pau out early and go to a three big rotation with Bertans subbing in early in 1st/ 3rd.

Pop should have shelved Patty after the 1st half ( he blew).

DeJounte needs to learn how to absorb contact to create easy angles in the paint. He has the quickness, he just refuses to absorb contact and makes it very easy for the weakside defender to close in and get a strong contest. He knows the strong contest is coming so he let's up and throws up a floater. It's an easy fix. If young 180 lb TP can do it, so should Murray.

White should have received some burn.

[cd021]

Lauvergne is the only other center on the roster, unfortunately.
Almost tempted to say fuck it, have Anderson play spot center if need be. Pop should've tried it in that at Utah game after LMA fouled out and with Gasol out and Joff looking exactly like a player on his fourth team in 14 months.

[cd021]

Pendergraph actually had some useful applications, finishing around the rim, decent defense, good screen settings, some pic n' roll skills. Joff is just terrible at everything 'cept average screen setter.

Love T.K.O was actually a good passer too and when he could catch the ball, ended up finishing at the rim well. He shot 58% overall one year with us iirc. Thought he had decent verticality but a little weak and tended to get pushed back in mid air but, in all a better player that never worked out because he had the worst hands I've ever seen on a big.

[LittleCriminal]

Almost tempted to say fuck it, have Anderson play spot center if need be

https://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif

[cd021]

It was another nod to Parker signing was it not? Most of his sh** has been pretty bad. Diaw is the exception, but he wasn't exactly a diamond in the rough.

Diaw during the 12-13 and 13-14 was a perfect fit, after those two years he had issues even fitting in to his jersey. PATFO did move him (though it cost a pick) but got Gasol as a result who has been the second best player on this team, in my opinion, this season -to their credit.

David Lee would be an significant upgrade over Joff but that ship has sailed. :depressed

[TheGreatYacht]

https://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif
:lmao

Rock boulder head can anything he puts his mind into according to ST

[TD 21]

The only thing I can think of is having in for FT's after a miss/foul; but that's still stupid, tbh.

Yeah.



Almost tempted to say fuck it, have Anderson play spot center if need be. Pop should've tried it in that at Utah game after LMA fouled out and with Gasol out and Joff looking exactly like a player on his fourth team in 14 months.

Said this awhile ago. Gay and Anderson should be the third and fourth centers. They have 7'3'' and 7'2.75 wingspans to Lauvergne's 6'9.5'', are about equal on the defensive glass, better rim protectors and significantly better overall players.

Obviously, you don't leave them on an island to defend post up brutes like Nurkic (not like Lauvergne is capable of this either), but a guy like Davis, they should be fine. Blocking him out would be somewhat of a concern, but a worthwhile trade off for not playing Lauvergne.

[LittleCriminal]

:lmao

Rock boulder head can anything he puts his mind into according to ST

I know right. but dont make fun of the ST MVP.. did you see all those stats he had in 36 min?
Fuk Lebomb James.
Slomo gets the League MVP/All Star votes here.

[LittleCriminal]

Yeah.




Said this awhile ago. Gay and Anderson should be the third and fourth centers. They have 7'3'' and 7'2.75 wingspans to Lauvergne's 6'9.5'', are about equal on the defensive glass, better rim protectors and significantly better overall players.

Obviously, you don't leave them on an island to defend post up brutes like Nurkic (not like Lauvergne is capable of this either), but a guy like Davis, they should be fine. Blocking him out would be somewhat of a concern, but a worthwhile trade off for not playing Lauvergne.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/KpAPQVW9lWnWU/giphy.gif

[jbspurs]

Spurs scouting department just sucks. At Westchester, Jimmer played with a 7'2" center Jordan Bachynski. I felt he was a borderline NBA player. But he's way better than Joff. He had a nice post-up game, great passing, great finishing around the rim, good finesse, could make a mid range jumper to keep the defense honest; a bit like a mini Boban. I dunno what he's doing these days, but when I watch Joff out there I'm thinking to myself I know there was way better sh** out there. WTF

He was highly recommended by TP..:(

[Amuseddaysleeper]

It's certainly the most depressing team to watch since the year before Duncan was drafted.

Their b-ball IQ is one of the worst in the NBA (never thought I'd say that about a Pop coached team) and there isn't anything on the roster that is worth cheering for or looking forward to this season. Last year's team wasn't great to watch as a whole but Kawhi was. Hopefully he can regain that form sooner than later. Next year may be our last year seeing him in a Spurs jersey.

[Robz4000]

It's certainly the most depressing team to watch since the year before Duncan was drafted.

Their b-ball IQ is one of the worst in the NBA (never thought I'd say that about a Pop coached team) and there isn't anything on the roster that is worth cheering for or looking forward to this season. Last year's team wasn't great to watch as a whole but Kawhi was. Hopefully he can regain that form sooner than later. Next year may be our last year seeing him in a Spurs jersey.

If he doesn't sign an extension this offseason or shows an inclination that he might not I think the Spurs trade him. They don't wanna risk losing him for nothing.

[phxspurfan]

It's certainly the most depressing team to watch since the year before Duncan was drafted.

Their b-ball IQ is one of the worst in the NBA (never thought I'd say that about a Pop coached team) and there isn't anything on the roster that is worth cheering for or looking forward to this season. Last year's team wasn't great to watch as a whole but Kawhi was. Hopefully he can regain that form sooner than later. Next year may be our last year seeing him in a Spurs jersey.

I think the 02 season was worse. TD with no shooters, an aging DRob and Terry Porter/AD running point. I think we got swept by the Lakers that year too. All with prime MVP TD


Also pretty much every team with Dick Jefferson.

[Ice009]

Obviously, you don't leave them on an island to defend post up brutes like Nurkic (not like Lauvergne is capable of this either), but a guy like Davis, they should be fine. Blocking him out would be somewhat of a concern, but a worthwhile trade off for not playing Lauvergne.

Speaking of Nurkic, when he was available last season, why the fuck didn't the Spurs inquire about? When I heard Denver were looking to trade him, I wanted the Spurs to try and get him. Didn't Portland only give up a second round pick for him? He would have been 10X better than Joffery. Some nights he also might have been better than Gasol.

Spurs need to learn to cut scrubs and take the upgrade whenever possible. I don't give a fuck if a player was on the team in training camp or the start of the season. If he's stinking it up during the season, and he's a minimum guy or a cheap contract, cut him and get someone else.

[Ice009]

I think the 02 season was worse. TD with no shooters, an aging DRob and Terry Porter/AD running point. I think we got swept by the Lakers that year too. All with prime MVP TD

Nah, that was 2001 where the Spurs got swept. The 2002 team played tough, tough defense, but didn't have enough offense to get it done. I think the Spurs had a 4th quarter lead in every game of that series against the Lakers, but lost the series 4-2.

[tbdog]

First off, Pop is awful . . .

- Every time it gets past 6-7 minutes without Gasol coming out, he resorts to Lauvergne
- Playing the entire bench together, when 1-2 aren't NBA players
- Putting in Murray for the final defensive possession, yet inexplicably having Anderson defend McCollum
- The final play is not the type you run for a traditional big and even if it were, you don't do it after you called timeout on the inbound because they obviously knew what was coming at that point

On the one hand, the rotation is in a constant state of flux, they're oftentimes playing unproven or fringe players and going down the stretch either playing through a traditional big, with a subpar handle and play making ability or a 40 year old guard, so you could argue the record, no matter the competition, is impressive. On the other hand, they can't score or create separation, particularly on the road and a rare time they do, they predictably find a way to lose anyway. Every single game is difficult. You'd think at some point, law of averages would kick in and they'd have a game where they shoot lights out and win comfortably.

We still haven't seen this team play healthy and a full game together. Our clutch player and best player has not played clutch time. Our fringe players are playing because of all these injuries and injury management programs. No green, Parker, Leonard, and gay tonight. Of course their replacements are fringe players.

We desperately need a dependable 20min big though. Hoping for a Tyson buyout tbh.

[DeRozan m8]

I hated Manu coming back, but with this team, thank fuck we have him this season.

It's a sad state of affairs.

[cd021]

:lmao

Rock boulder head can anything he puts his mind into according to ST

You trust Joff more than KA at center? The only logic to playing Joff is that he is the closest thing to a traditional center but he is only an inch or two taller than Anderson but Anderson has an armspan that is five inches longer than Joffs, on top of being a much better player.

[Reck]

At the pace they're going, the 50+ win streak is in serious doubt.

I picked a good year to not watch or be interested in the NBA as a whole.

[cd021]

If he doesn't sign an extension this offseason or shows an inclination that he might not I think the Spurs trade him. They don't wanna risk losing him for nothing.
Forgot the rules of the super max, does he have to make an all NBA team back to back years or something to get the biggest pay day possible?



Edit:

Double checked. He already has the criteria met with 2 all NBA appearances in the past three seasons and 2DVOPs
The Spurs have the upper advantage in resigning him to a super max contact.

[Ice009]

Forgot the rules of the super max, does he have to make an all NBA team back to back years or something to get the biggest pay day possible?

I didn't know there was rules like that. I thought the main one was that you have to be on the same team for a certain amount of time? What's the criteria?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I didn't know there was rules like that. I thought the main one was that you have to be on the same team for a certain amount of time? What's the criteria?

One of the following:

1.He makes one of the three all-NBA teams or is named either defensive player of the year or most valuable player the previous season.
2.He has made one of the three all-NBA teams or has been named defensive player of the year in two of the prior three seasons or the league’s most valuable player in one of the three prior seasons.

Kawhi will be eligible and will sign his supermax this summer, which will kick in after next season.

[Chinook]

If he doesn't sign an extension this offseason or shows an inclination that he might not I think the Spurs trade him. They don't wanna risk losing him for nothing.

At this point, I think they hesitate to give it to him. That's a imperial fuck-ton of money to hand out to a guy who can't stay healthy, especially if the cap contracts.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Do the Spurs want Kawhi to just walk when his contract is up? Because we have nothing in terms of the future. Arguably one of our best players this season is 40, Tony Parker is done, so is Pau. Patty isn’t going to get any better than he his now he’s only going to decline from here. LA is great but turns 33 this summer. Kawhi is 26 years old!! Who does this guy have before he goes and waste his prime years not competing in the playoffs. This organization has been a complete embarrassment after 5.

[Robz4000]

At this point, I think they hesitate to give it to him. That's a imperial fuck-ton of money to hand out to a guy who can't stay healthy, especially if the cap contracts.

Agreed, and I don't think they should. Said it before, if he's worried about money all he needs to do is look at the contracts Gasol/Manu/Parker have gotten at the end of their careers.

[LittleCriminal]

The Frustration comes from the injuries being riddled on this roster
however being that the team is 27-14 and currently 3rd in the west is unbelievable.

POP, the coaching staff, and most players are doing a hell of a job.
just need to tweak a few things imo... I think most of you know what needs tweaking already.

[keithington1]

All Pop has to do was get manu coming off a pick towards the basket for the win last night. Pop was trying to please LMA against his old team.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Nah, that was 2001 where the Spurs got swept. The 2002 team played tough, tough defense, but didn't have enough offense to get it done. I think the Spurs had a 4th quarter lead in every game of that series against the Lakers, but lost the series 4-2.

Lost series 4-1 and had a lead going into the fourth of every game except for Game 5.

God 2003 felt so good ending that stupid Laker team.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The Frustration comes from the injuries being riddled on this roster
however being that the team is 27-14 and currently 3rd in the west is unbelievable.

POP, the coaching staff, and most players are doing a hell of a job.
just need to tweak a few things imo... I think most of you know what needs tweaking already.

To me it has more to do with how poor the rest of the league as oppose to how good the Spurs are. OKC was hot garbage and healthy up until very recently and the Timberwolves might be the biggest letdown in the league considering the expectations heading into the season. This is the worst Western conference (or at least bottom 2) of the past 10 years.

[daslicer]

I think the 02 season was worse. TD with no shooters, an aging DRob and Terry Porter/AD running point. I think we got swept by the Lakers that year too. All with prime MVP TD


Also pretty much every team with Dick Jefferson.

That season was actually exciting. It was statistically Tim's best season and it was fun to watch him go into god mode every game and not hold back. Back then Pop did not rest his stars and Tim played 40 minutes a game. It was Tony Parker's rookie year and throughout the year he showed flashes of potential what was yet to come. Bruce Bowen added great perimeter defense that the team lacked the previous year when Kobe went off in the '01 WCF. They also had Steve Smith who was still a great shooter. Ultimately they lost to the Lakers in 5 games but every game was close with the Spurs leading in the 4th quarter but they just didn't have enough depth and talent to maintain the leads. That team actually gave me hope that the Spurs were on the verge of toppling the Lakers and winning multiple titles.

[daslicer]

Do the Spurs want Kawhi to just walk when his contract is up? Because we have nothing in terms of the future. Arguably one of our best players this season is 40, Tony Parker is done, so is Pau. Patty isn’t going to get any better than he his now he’s only going to decline from here. LA is great but turns 33 this summer. Kawhi is 26 years old!! Who does this guy have before he goes and waste his prime years not competing in the playoffs. This organization has been a complete embarrassment after 5.

Can't predict the future it's hard to do. I remember after the Spurs got swept by the Lakers in '01 everybody believed that the Spurs had no future because the team consisted of Duncan and a bunch of old veterans passed their prime. Will have to see what future trades the FO makes and what type of FA's they sign. I would not say the organization has been an embarrassment after 5. In the summer of '15 they went all in to get LMA, West, and had a solid pickup of Simmons. That team won 67 games and I believe would have beaten the Thunder if Duncan's knees didn't completely shatter. Last year they added David Lee, Dedmon, Gasol who were good pickups for the bigman rotation. If Zaza doesn't take out Kawhi I felt that team could have beaten the Warriors. Now this summer giving Mills a big deal was a mistake along with replacing Lee/Dedmon with Joff. I had no problems with extending LMA considering without him the Spurs would be a lottery team right now. Also he's a jump shooting big which means his game is not going to drop off for the next few years and by the time it will drop off his contract will be up.

[LittleCriminal]

To me it has more to do with how poor the rest of the league as oppose to how good the Spurs are. OKC was hot garbage and healthy up until very recently and the Timberwolves might be the biggest letdown in the league considering the expectations heading into the season. This is the worst Western conference (or at least bottom 2) of the past 10 years.

That's a logical assessment. I agree with you entirely.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

That's a logical assessment. I agree with you entirely.

However, I do agree with you that if you were to tell me heading into the season that Kawhi would have only played 8 games by January and that Ginobili would be forced to become our second best player because of so many injuries, I would have figured that the Spurs would be a 6th seed in the West at best.

So being a third seed we could be doing a lot worse.

[phxspurfan]

However, I do agree with you that if you were to tell me heading into the season that Kawhi would have only played 8 games by January and that Ginobili would be forced to become our second best player because of so many injuries, I would have figured that the Spurs would be a 6th seed in the West at best.

So being a third seed we could be doing a lot worse.

That's bc the west is shit now that all the talent went to two teams

[LittleCriminal]

However, I do agree with you that if you were to tell me heading into the season that Kawhi would have only played 8 games by January and that Ginobili would be forced to become our second best player because of so many injuries, I would have figured that the Spurs would be a 6th seed in the West at best.

So being a third seed we could be doing a lot worse.

https://i.imgur.com/r384v6y.jpg

[Robz4000]

To me it has more to do with how poor the rest of the league as oppose to how good the Spurs are. OKC was hot garbage and healthy up until very recently and the Timberwolves might be the biggest letdown in the league considering the expectations heading into the season. This is the worst Western conference (or at least bottom 2) of the past 10 years.

Western playoff teams are actually better than they've been the past two seasons and better than every season sans 2015 since the mid-2000s. Spurs have just had an easy schedule thus far. The T'Pups are in the same situation as the Thunder having to integrate several important new parts and, similarly, are beginning to play better. Unless Kawhi is back to last year's Kawhi soon I expect the Spurs to drop down to the fifth seed.

[spursistan]

At this point, I think they hesitate to give it to him. That's a imperial fuck-ton of money to hand out to a guy who can't stay healthy, especially if the cap contracts.
They should..

A year ago, I probably would have said ‘give the guy his money’ but we’ve crossed a line to the point where his unavailability for large chunks of the season is a fact of life—a trend that has more than entrenched itself in the total player package of Kawhi..

You just can’t pay 35-40 million going forward for a guy who is a lock to miss 15+ games each season for every fuckin ailment and malady in the book (a virus, an inflammation, a tendinitis in the wrist, shoulder, knee, ear, eye, stomach..) despite being monitored and put on workload restriction from day one.

On the other hand, and out of pure self-interest for him and his client, his agent is going to push for the Supermax because he knows there is no guarantee his career doesn’t go the way of Derrick Rose or Grant Hill at any moment.

I think PATFO should test the waters this summer on his extension and see what’s the overall thinking of his camp. We can’t afford to get KD-ed here..

[spurraider21]

i dont think you can afford not to pay him. if he walks, the spurs have about a zero chance at contending for several years. they're a good enough roster where they won't be picking top 5 anytime soon, and aren't going to be acquiring mvp caliber players in free agency

it may be a risk committing to kawhi, but there is no other option if the team hopes to compete at all in the near future. you play the cards you're dealt.

[Chinook]

i dont think you can afford not to pay him. if he walks, the spurs have about a zero chance at contending for several years. they're a good enough roster where they won't be picking top 5 anytime soon, and aren't going to be acquiring mvp caliber players in free agency

it may be a risk committing to kawhi, but there is no other option if the team hopes to compete at all in the near future. you play the cards you're dealt.

The Spurs are losing money despite being a fringe contender and hanging out under the tax line. If Kawhi gets a supermax deal and then the cap contracts, you could have Leonard taking up almost half the cap space in four years. That's disturbing, even before getting into the injuries.

The Spurs might not be able to afford to not pay him if they want to be a contender, but handing him a blank check might not be something they can afford, both in terms of their bottom line and their pursuit of being a contender.

[TD 21]

Whether worth it or not due to durability issues, Leonard will absolutely expect the super max out of principle. He also has the leverage since he can easily command that damn near anywhere, while they have no way of replacing a player of his caliber. If they didn't immediately offer it, he'd either request a trade or at minimum they'd risk doing irreparable damage to the relationship.


Speaking of Nurkic, when he was available last season, why the fuck didn't the Spurs inquire about? When I heard Denver were looking to trade him, I wanted the Spurs to try and get him. Didn't Portland only give up a second round pick for him? He would have been 10X better than Joffery. Some nights he also might have been better than Gasol.


Spurs need to learn to cut scrubs and take the upgrade whenever possible. I don't give a fuck if a player was on the team in training camp or the start of the season. If he's stinking it up during the season, and he's a minimum guy or a cheap contract, cut him and get someone else.

The trade was Nurkic and '17 1st for Plumlee and '18 2nd, plus cash. Spurs could have inquired, but it's unlikely Nuggets choose Dedmon over Plumlee. Even though they're comparable, the latter has more cache.

Yeah, this is a rare case where they need to swallow hard, eat Lauvergne's contract and sign a credible third center option.



We still haven't seen this team play healthy and a full game together. Our clutch player and best player has not played clutch time. Our fringe players are playing because of all these injuries and injury management programs. No green, Parker, Leonard, and gay tonight. Of course their replacements are fringe players.

We desperately need a dependable 20min big though. Hoping for a Tyson buyout tbh.

Please. The same issues they've had post '14 have only been exacerbated as the game has continued to evolve while they've mostly thumbed their nose up at it. At this point, it's probably best they get healthy and either lose to Thunder or get steamrolled by Rockets, so they can no longer pretend with this roster and are forced to address the PG situation and archaic style in the off season.

Forget about Chandler being bought out; he has another season left on his contract.

[MaNu4Tres]

Please. The same issues they've had post '14 have only been exacerbated as the game has continued to evolve while they've mostly thumbed their nose up at it. At this point, it's probably best they get healthy and either lose to Thunder or get steamrolled by Rockets, so they can no longer pretend with this roster and are forced to address the PG situation and archaic style in the off season..

Spot. On.

[spurraider21]

The Spurs are losing money despite being a fringe contender and hanging out under the tax line. If Kawhi gets a supermax deal and then the cap contracts, you could have Leonard taking up almost half the cap space in four years. That's disturbing, even before getting into the injuries.

The Spurs might not be able to afford to not pay him if they want to be a contender, but handing him a blank check might not be something they can afford, both in terms of their bottom line and their pursuit of being a contender.
they have zero chance of contending for anything for a long time if kawhi walks. so if contending is a requirement, there is no other option than to hand him a blank check

[Dex]

they have zero chance of contending for anything for a long time if kawhi walks. so if contending is a requirement, there is no other option than to hand him a blank check

Yep, people who want to go all-in on rebuilding seriously underestimate how hard it is to rebuild a title contender, and how long it could take in a small market. When it happens, it is going to suck a lot, and probably for a while.

The grass isn't always greener, and Tim Duncans and Kawhi Leonards don't just grow on trees.

[Chinook]

they have zero chance of contending for anything for a long time if kawhi walks. so if contending is a requirement, there is no other option than to hand him a blank check

But that only matters so much. The team can't literally hemorrhage money just to have a chance to win a title. Beyond Kawhi walking, he has to be available to play.

[spurraider21]

But that only matters so much. The team can't literally hemorrhage money just to have a chance to win a title. Beyond Kawhi walking, he has to be available to play.
well, none of us here are rooting for Holt's bank statements. we want the team to win, and right now for better or worse, kawhi is the only avenue there

[cd021]

The Frustration comes from the injuries being riddled on this roster
however being that the team is 27-14 and currently 3rd in the west is unbelievable.

POP, the coaching staff, and most players are doing a hell of a job.
just need to tweak a few things imo... I think most of you know what needs tweaking already.

With or Kawhi, the rest of January is a soft schedule with @ Toronto and home against Cleveland being the only two games that seem like likely losses. Not to look to far a head, but I could see us going 10-2 and starting February with a 38-16 (.703) record.

[Chinook]

well, none of us here are rooting for Holt's bank statements. we want the team to win, and right now for better or worse, kawhi is the only avenue there

Yes, but you aren't paying for anything, as aren't most fans given the empty seats. We don't have the financial stake for anyone to care what we want. Even disregarding that if you hand Kawhi a blank check, and you probably kiss contending goodbye anyway. Kawhi and extras would have been a lottery team this year. The team needs money to build a contender, whether that is through signing a big name or keeping home-grown guys long-term.

This new supermax is by far the scariest thing to come out of CBAs in a long time. Timing could not be worse. It will sink a lot of teams and may cause a huge labor fight next time around.

[cd021]

But that only matters so much. The team can't literally hemorrhage money just to have a chance to win a title. Beyond Kawhi walking, he has to be available to play.

If the spurs don't extend the super max to him, there wouldn't be any financial advantage for him to stay?

[Chinook]

If the spurs don't extend the super max to him, there wouldn't be any financial advantage for him to stay?

A regular max from the Spurs is already more than other teams can pay. The supermax was just to stop it from being close.

[daslicer]

Yep, people who want to go all-in on rebuilding seriously underestimate how hard it is to rebuild a title contender, and how long it could take in a small market. When it happens, it is going to suck a lot, and probably for a while.

The grass isn't always greener, and Tim Duncans and Kawhi Leonards don't just grow on trees.

The Spurs are my favorite team but outside of Spurs I follow the Hornets since they are my home team. For many years the Hornets have tried to rebuild through the lottery but still haven't been able to land a superstar. The Hornets haven't gotten out of the first round in 16 years but have gotten bounced a few times in round 1 since then. Spur fans should follow small market teams such as the Magic and Hornets to get an idea of how hard it is to build a contender.

[Seventyniner]

Please. The same issues they've had post '14 have only been exacerbated as the game has continued to evolve while they've mostly thumbed their nose up at it. At this point, it's probably best they get healthy and either lose to Thunder or get steamrolled by Rockets, so they can no longer pretend with this roster and are forced to address the PG situation and archaic style in the off season.

Complete bullshit. The Spurs were a top 2 team last year when healthy and are top 5 at worst right now.

[BillMc]

A regular max from the Spurs is already more than other teams can pay. The supermax was just to stop it from being close.

So, if you were a betting man, do you think the Spurs extend Kawhi the super max? And, if not, what are the ramifications? Sure, they can still offer more than anyone else at the regular max but wouldn't Kawhi take it as an insult and likely want to leave or force a trade?

I hear what you say about haemorrhaging money. Fans should enjoy these good teams while they can. I think the glory days won't go on too much longer. (Hope I'm wrong)

[SAGirl]

So, if you were a betting man, do you think the Spurs extend Kawhi the super max? And, if not, what are the ramifications? Sure, they can still offer more than anyone else at the regular max but wouldn't Kawhi take it as an insult and likely want to leave or force a trade?

I hear what you say about haemorrhaging money. Fans should enjoy these good teams while they can. I think the glory days won't go on too much longer. (Hope I'm wrong)

I agree very much with you Bill. Even fans of the late era like myself have been spoiled from watching what I consider a good/sometimes great team... meltdowns and all... I am appreciative of them.

Some old school fans are just appreciative of having watched Tim's entire career (my loss... also not having watched the big 3 in their primes).

Very interested to hear Chinook's take.

I don't know. I think so long as Kawhi can return from this injuries like nothing happened, playing at an MVP level like he was last season he is worth it.. but I do see Chinook's point that a small market team will be squeezed trying to put talent around him.

It's an interesting topic for sure.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Despite of losing cash I don't see how the Spurs could afford not to hand Kawhi the supermax. He's a top 5 player. Top 5 players get paid, despite of missing games. He's only missed 4 out of close to 100 playoff games as a Spur and that's what's important. It'd be even worse going into full rebuilding when it comes to butts on seats. If anything, Kawhi guarantees some cash flow and they'll need to pay someone anyway. So what if Kawhi's making $40mil in a couple of years? This is better than having Gasols and Pattys combining to make the same amount.

Even if the cap stops rising all teams will have to face the challenge of building a contender around a supermax player. GS and Cleveland are already deep into tax and it's not a given LeBron even stays there. Houston will have to pay Paul, Capela and Ariza if they want to keep the team, let alone improve it. Toronto are over the tax and will look to salary dump players, not to add. Only Boston have done quite well in aligning contracts for the future, thanks to Brooklyn's picks, but they'll also need to give Kyrie the (regular) max after next season. If the cap stops rising the teams will adjust.

[SAGirl]

Despite of losing cash I don't see how the Spurs could afford not to hand Kawhi the supermax. He's a top 5 player. Top 5 players get paid, despite of missing games. He's only missed 4 out of close to 100 playoff games as a Spur and that's what's important. It'd be even worse going into full rebuilding when it comes to butts on seats. If anything, Kawhi guarantees some cash flow and they'll need to pay someone anyway. So what if Kawhi's making $40mil in a couple of years? This is better than having Gasols and Pattys combining to make the same amount.

Even if the cap stops rising all teams will have to face the challenge of building a contender around a supermax player. GS and Cleveland are already deep into tax and it's not a given LeBron even stays there. Houston will have to pay Paul, Capela and Ariza if they want to keep the team, let alone improve it. Toronto are over the tax and will look to salary dump players, not to add. Only Boston have done quite well in aligning contracts for the future, thanks to Brooklyn's picks, but they'll also need to give Kyrie the (regular) max after next season. If the cap stops rising the teams will adjust.
The bolded part is a great point. I am sure his agent will bring that up.

[Chinook]

So, if you were a betting man, do you think the Spurs extend Kawhi the super max? And, if not, what are the ramifications? Sure, they can still offer more than anyone else at the regular max but wouldn't Kawhi take it as an insult and likely want to leave or force a trade?

I hear what you say about haemorrhaging money. Fans should enjoy these good teams while they can. I think the glory days won't go on too much longer. (Hope I'm wrong)

I don't think the team is going to play hardball with Kawhi. They'll likely tell him honestly why they are offering the deal they are, and he'll either take it or ask for me. I do think when push comes to shove, the team will give Leonard what he wants. I doubt there's going to be anyone arguing about Leonard's status due to his contract one way or the other.

Of course, it really depends on how this year goes. He comes back on Thursday and then tears it up en route to an MVP-caliber second half to the season and playoffs, then he gets the Durant-max and the rest is dealt with on the back end. But if he remains hobbled the whole year, I could see SA in the very least wanting to wait until later in the next season to give him the deal. I don't think there's a limit on when he can sign such an extension.

[Chinook]

Despite of losing cash I don't see how the Spurs could afford not to hand Kawhi the supermax. He's a top 5 player. Top 5 players get paid, despite of missing games. He's only missed 4 out of close to 100 playoff games as a Spur and that's what's important. It'd be even worse going into full rebuilding when it comes to butts on seats. If anything, Kawhi guarantees some cash flow and they'll need to pay someone anyway. So what if Kawhi's making $40mil in a couple of years? This is better than having Gasols and Pattys combining to make the same amount.

Even if the cap stops rising all teams will have to face the challenge of building a contender around a supermax player. GS and Cleveland are already deep into tax and it's not a given LeBron even stays there. Houston will have to pay Paul, Capela and Ariza if they want to keep the team, let alone improve it. Toronto are over the tax and will look to salary dump players, not to add. Only Boston have done quite well in aligning contracts for the future, thanks to Brooklyn's picks, but they'll also need to give Kyrie the (regular) max after next season. If the cap stops rising the teams will adjust.

Golden State is literally willing itself to keep going despite the tax. If the cap crunches, I expect even them to fall back. Obviously Cleveland is losing money hand over fist, which is why they probably won't be too upset if James walks again. I don't think people really understand how bad the cap crunch can be. We're talking about situations where teams can end up with guys taking up half the cap and 40 percent of the tax threshold. And they can't "adjust" because those deals will already have been signed. Kawhi has one of the worst timings on his third contract possible. Maybe Davis only has a worst one but at least when that one comes, NOP will likely have a better idea what the next TV deal will look like.

The bubble we're looking at right now is actually kind of amazing. You have a generous deal combined with a league with very little intrigue, with resting "scandals" rearing their ugly heads. Combine that with the general cord-cutting trend, and it's no wonder the league is desperately trying to find other avenues to use to sell their content. I don't think the NBA has been a worse buy since Bird and Magic started playing. There's a very real possibility of the cap dropping into the low 90s or even high 80s. If that happens, I fully don't expect there to be basketball in 2021-2022 without the NBPA agreeing to revise extant contracts.

[Chinook]

The bolded part is a great point. I am sure his agent will bring that up.

Pau and Mills combine for $27 Million. I don't think it will be a great point. If anything, PATFO have a much better point in saying that had they let those guys walk, the team would be barely in the playoff race. People act as if Kawhi missing half the season doesn't affect his value. It absolutely does. A top-10 player playing a half-season does not have a top-10 impact. Kawhi still has work to do to make his current salary worth it this year. He has quite the task ahead of him to give the team $40 Million in value, or even $80 Million in the next seaon-and-a-half.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Golden State is literally willing itself to keep going despite the tax. If the cap crunches, I expect even them to fall back. Obviously Cleveland is losing money hand over fist, which is why they probably won't be too upset if James walks again. I don't think people really understand how bad the cap crunch can be. We're talking about situations where teams can end up with guys taking up half the cap and 40 percent of the tax threshold. And they can't "adjust" because those deals will already have been signed. Kawhi has one of the worst timings on his third contract possible. Maybe Davis only has a worst one but at least when that one comes, NOP will likely have a better idea what the next TV deal will look like.


GS will have tough decisions to make in the next three summers, having to pay Durant, Thompson and Green, with each deal pushing them further in the tax as a repeater. Paying $3.25(or $4.25?) for each $1 above the tax won't be fun even if they're making tons of money. They hit the jackpot getting Durant when the cap jumped so they're ahead of everyone when it comes to roster construction right now, but they'll have to make financially difficult decisions too, starting this summer.



The bubble we're looking at right now is actually kind of amazing. You have a generous deal combined with a league with very little intrigue, with resting "scandals" rearing their ugly heads. Combine that with the general cord-cutting trend, and it's no wonder the league is desperately trying to find other avenues to use to sell their content. I don't think the NBA has been a worse buy since Bird and Magic started playing. There's a very real possibility of the cap dropping into the low 90s or even high 80s. If that happens, I fully don't expect there to be basketball in 2021-2022 without the NBPA agreeing to revise extant contracts.

This is a very bleak outlook, there's nothing suggesting the NBA won't be making at least as much money as they do now for the foreseeable future. Sponsorship revenue keeps a trend of healthy rises by close to 10% each season, as well as the total NBA revenue. Team values keep increasing as well, everyone's making money. Even if the trend flattens a bit it'll still be a good business for everyone involved. Besides, people don't really care about parity or intrigue, it's only the NBA nerds on forums who don't want to watch GS vs LeBron in the finals every year. The new TV deal will be a great base for future revenue, and there are also teams that have long term local TV deals expiring soon, so they'll sign more lucrative ones. I don't see it as a league desperate to make ends at all.

[NameLess Scrub]

I like these kinds of threads.

[Seventyniner]

Any chance of a near-future CBA negotiation changing contracts to be percentages of the cap as opposed to fixed dollar amounts?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Any chance of a near-future CBA negotiation changing contracts to be percentages of the cap as opposed to fixed dollar amounts?

Not until after the 2022/23 season when either party can opt out of the current CBA.

[cutewizard]

Guys, this is a foolish question, but Im just curious......

If we traded Lamarcus for Marc Gasol, then got Clarkson......could we compete with GS?

Dont be mad at me,, just ruminating good Sirs.....

[Phenomanul]

GS will have tough decisions to make in the next three summers, having to pay Durant, Thompson and Green, with each deal pushing them further in the tax as a repeater. Paying $3.25(or $4.25?) for each $1 above the tax won't be fun even if they're making tons of money. They hit the jackpot getting Durant when the cap jumped so they're ahead of everyone when it comes to roster construction right now, but they'll have to make financially difficult decisions too, starting this summer.



This is a very bleak outlook, there's nothing suggesting the NBA won't be making at least as much money as they do now for the foreseeable future. Sponsorship revenue keeps a trend of healthy rises by close to 10% each season, as well as the total NBA revenue. Team values keep increasing as well, everyone's making money. Even if the trend flattens a bit it'll still be a good business for everyone involved. Besides, people don't really care about parity or intrigue, it's only the NBA nerds on forums who don't want to watch GS vs LeBron in the finals every year. The new TV deal will be a great base for future revenue, and there are also teams that have long term local TV deals expiring soon, so they'll sign more lucrative ones. I don't see it as a league desperate to make ends at all.

I wonder how much the corporate tax reduction will help NBA franchises in this number crunch?

[MaNu4Tres]

I can't believe there's people here that are questioning whether or not to give Kawhi the max.

Unbelievable.

[TD 21]

Complete bullshit. The Spurs were a top 2 team last year when healthy and are top 5 at worst right now.

I missed the part where I said anything to the contrary. They're a significant piece and stylistic shift away from championship contention.




I can't believe there's people here that are questioning whether or not to give Kawhi the max.


Unbelievable.


:lmao I know. Sure, he's proven to be somewhat injury prone, but less than the likes of Irving, Davis and Beal, who all got max deals. I get that this is a super max, but still; people act like he's Rose.

[dabom]

Every team in the league gives Kawhi the Super Max anytime without blinking. Players like him don't grow on trees.

[Chinook]

It's hard to say the Spurs need to shift paradigms when they are only not "championship contenders" because they might not be able to beat the Warriors. That's only a temporary obstacle. They would beat Houston and OKC in the playoffs, so it's not particularly clear that those teams have the right paradigm either.

The Spurs' weakness in their back court has nothing to do with Pop's philosophy for roster management. It has everything to do with the individual players declining. These guys in their 2014 forms would form an elite perimeter unit. The reason why that seems like a style other teams don't follow is that other teams don't have four backcourt guys who have been good enough and selfless enough financially to stay together that long. If the Warriors stay good for three or four more years, we'll stay to see them go the same way. Utah let their guys play forever. Nash and Hill were there until they were jerky. Memphis only let Carter and ZBo walk because they switched coaches, and they are clinging to Marc and Conley even still. Dallas with Dirk and Barea. We can keep going.

Mills isn't old, used to be dynamic and was important for chemistry. I wouldn't have kept him, but I don't think it was a bad move, especially independent from salary. Manu was iffy, but he's playing so well that isn't the problem. Parker played well to end his season last year and may still do so again. I've wanted them to upgrade the backcourt for years now, but I also think they are playing about as badly as they are going to play this year. The team drafted two guards in a row along with having a promising one in Forbes locked into an Arenas RFA situation. It's not like they don't have a semblance of a future there. The plan going forward is to get the most of out Parker/Murray, keep Manu on ice, get Green healthy and hope Patty can become more consistent. That's dicey, but it's not that much worse than hoping Gay and Kawhi are healthy, that Pau stays effective in May and that Anderson or Bertans can be a rotation player going forward.

[r0drig0lac]

I can't believe there's people here that are questioning whether or not to give Kawhi the max.

Unbelievable.

parallel universe of spurstalk

[spurraider21]

The Spurs' weakness in their back court has nothing to do with Pop's philosophy for roster management. It has everything to do with the individual players declining. These guys in their 2014 forms would form an elite perimeter unit.
that's horribly shallow analysis, imo. if you sit on the same roster for 8 years and let guys age, that has everything to do with your management. it's not as though the spurs are in the unique position of having players get a year older every year

[Chinook]

that's horribly shallow analysis, imo. if you sit on the same roster for 8 years and let guys age, that has everything to do with your management. it's not as though the spurs are in the unique position of having players get a year older every year

The whole point is that most teams aren't good enough for long enough to deal with an aging roster. It's not that Pop's doing something other teams wouldn't do -- he's just able to do something other teams can't do. Everybody who's around long enough keeps the players who help them get there for years and years. That's what the rest of my post that you cut off demonstrated.

[spurraider21]

The whole point is that most teams aren't good enough for long enough to deal with an aging roster. It's not that Pop's doing something other teams wouldn't do -- he's just able to do something other teams can't do. Everybody who's around long enough keeps the players who help them get there for years and years. That's what the rest of my post that you cut off demonstrated.
that reluctance to move along is still tied to their theory of roster management. it is something seen across the league? sure. but that doesn't mean it isn't a flaw in their roster management model

[Chinook]

that reluctance to move along is still tied to their theory of roster management. it is something seen across the league? sure. but that doesn't mean it isn't a flaw in their roster management model

Call it a flaw is one thing -- calling it archaic is another. Keeping the core together isn't some outdated strategy that doesn't work in the new age; it's just the inevitable result of sustained success. All of these teams would do the same in a heartbeat if they could get the chance. But of course they can't and won't, because they'll change coaches and GMs way sooner than eight years.

[spurraider21]

Call it a flaw is one thing -- calling it archaic is another. Keeping the core together isn't some outdated strategy that doesn't work in the new age; it's just the inevitable result of sustained success. All of these teams would do the same in a heartbeat if they could get the chance. But of course they can't and won't, because they'll change coaches and GMs way sooner than eight years.
i dont know that i called it archaic. im saying it's silly to pretend it's not a product of roster management

[TD 21]

It's hard to say the Spurs need to shift paradigms when they are only not "championship contenders" because they might not be able to beat the Warriors. That's only a temporary obstacle. They would beat Houston and OKC in the playoffs, so it's not particularly clear that those teams have the right paradigm either.

The Spurs' weakness in their back court has nothing to do with Pop's philosophy for roster management. It has everything to do with the individual players declining. These guys in their 2014 forms would form an elite perimeter unit. The reason why that seems like a style other teams don't follow is that other teams don't have four backcourt guys who have been good enough and selfless enough financially to stay together that long. If the Warriors stay good for three or four more years, we'll stay to see them go the same way. Utah let their guys play forever. Nash and Hill were there until they were jerky. Memphis only let Carter and ZBo walk because they switched coaches, and they are clinging to Marc and Conley even still. Dallas with Dirk and Barea. We can keep going.

Mills isn't old, used to be dynamic and was important for chemistry. I wouldn't have kept him, but I don't think it was a bad move, especially independent from salary. Manu was iffy, but he's playing so well that isn't the problem. Parker played well to end his season last year and may still do so again. I've wanted them to upgrade the backcourt for years now, but I also think they are playing about as badly as they are going to play this year. The team drafted two guards in a row along with having a promising one in Forbes locked into an Arenas RFA situation. It's not like they don't have a semblance of a future there. The plan going forward is to get the most of out Parker/Murray, keep Manu on ice, get Green healthy and hope Patty can become more consistent. That's dicey, but it's not that much worse than hoping Gay and Kawhi are healthy, that Pau stays effective in May and that Anderson or Bertans can be a rotation player going forward.

They would likely not beat Rockets and wouldn't be assured of beating Thunder in a series either. You act as if they're in another class than them and as if Warriors are old, when in reality their core is younger than Spurs'.

I know the back court has nothing to do with philosophy, but the style of play is archaic. No matter the efficiency, slow, ISO, 3 phobic offense won't generate enough offense to give even a league best defense a chance in a series vs Warriors and to a lesser extent Rockets and Cavaliers.

No such thing as independent from salary though. The future back court is highly questionable, particularly for a team with championship aspirations. Only Murray has starting potential, but that's almost entirely based on his physical tools. His offensive skillset isn't even close right now and he doesn't time well with Aldridge and to a lesser extent Leonard.

[Chinook]

i dont know that i called it archaic. im saying it's silly to pretend it's not a product of roster management

The post I replied to specifically referred to it as such.

[Chinook]

They would likely not beat Rockets and wouldn't be assured of beating Thunder in a series either. You act as if they're in another class than them and as if Warriors are old, when in reality their core is younger than Spurs'.

I know the back court has nothing to do with philosophy, but the style of play is archaic. No matter the efficiency, slow, ISO, 3 phobic offense won't generate enough offense to give even a league best defense a chance in a series vs Warriors and to a lesser extent Rockets and Cavaliers.

No such thing as independent from salary though. The future back court is highly questionable, particularly for a team with championship aspirations. Only Murray has starting potential, but that's almost entirely based on his physical tools. His offensive skillset isn't even close right now and he doesn't time well with Aldridge and to a lesser extent Leonard.

I think they would beat Houston and OKC without a ton of trouble. That first game means nothing when evaluating the teams.

The Spurs ended up with Leonard as their alpha and LMA as their second. I agree that Pop should work harder to fit their styles into the offense, but it's not like he got Curry and Durant. I can't imagine how awful the offense would be if he got like Russ and Giannis.

I am not worried about Murray's timing. He fits better with LMA than Kawhi did with Tim. And he's like five years younger than Leonard, which is less than Tim and Tony. I think he and LMA have good chemistry already, but he can't play with Kawhi unless he learns to shoot consistently and until Kawhi moves off the ball more.

Anyways, Patty's salary is an issue, but the reason why I ignored it was that him being signed for any real amount was giving him a rotation spot. Him for like $7 Million APY wouldn't have made that less true.

[spurraider21]

The post I replied to specifically referred to it as such.
and you specifically said it "has nothing to do with roster management"

[Chinook]

and you specifically said it "has nothing to do with roster management"

Yes. Don't be Chump Jr on this. TD himself understood what I meant in his reply.

[TD 21]

I think they would beat Houston and OKC without a ton of trouble. That first game means nothing when evaluating the teams.

The Spurs ended up with Leonard as their alpha and LMA as their second. I agree that Pop should work harder to fit their styles into the offense, but it's not like he got Curry and Durant. I can't imagine how awful the offense would be if he got like Russ and Giannis.

I'm not basing it on one regular season game. I just trust that their style, with a 2nd superstar and better defensive personnel than last season, will win out. Picking Spurs is fine, but saying "without a ton of trouble" is crazy.

We've seen plenty of superstars and stars change their game to suit a necessary role and/or style elsewhere. No one is asking Leonard to become James in terms of play making or Aldridge to become Love in terms of volume 3-point shooting or the ball movement to resemble the '12-'14 Spurs or '15-present Warriors, but essentially letting them do whatever they want isn't the answer either.

Aldridge, barring a career altering injury, should age similarly to Duncan and Gasol, but he'll still turn 33 this summer. Even if he holds up as a star through his mid 30s, Murray is the definition of a boom or bust prospect and even if he ends up the former, it's probably not happening until Aldridge is past his prime. If they're lucky, maybe they get 1 season of overlap.

[spurraider21]

Yes. Don't be Chump Jr on this. TD himself understood what I meant in his reply.
i think you're just being obtuse, but w/e

[Chinook]

i think you're just being obtuse, but w/e

No. I explained what I meant to you even though I wasn't talking to you, and you're trying to be a stickler. I said both why it not being archaic was the point I was making and why this isn't a style unique to Pop. So even if you weren't willing to grant that I was mostly talking about the style not being archaic, I answered your question. Staying the course isn't an issue with Pop's style. It's a feature of being good for years. I didn't agree with not upgrading, but I doubt most coaches would have done anything different had they been on the team the past eight years instead.

[SAGirl]

It's just been a frustrating season bc the team has been riddled with injuries starting with their best player, who before the season was already getting hyped as a possible MVP. Injuries completely derailed his season.

Meantime we have seen some guys develop, among other more injuries. The one Rudy suffered is a big setback bc he's new to the team and due to Kawhi's own injuries the team hadn't really integrated him in the style they wanted him for besides Kawhi...

Anyways, it is frustrating... at the same time it's an interesting puzzle to watch how they will eventually emerge from this... if they will at some point be all healthy and also what happens to the guys who have developed and kept the team afloat in this stretch.

[Dex]

It's just been a frustrating season bc the team has been riddled with injuries starting with their best player, who before the season was already getting hyped as a possible MVP. Injuries completely derailed his season.

Meantime we have seen some guys develop, among other more injuries. The one Rudy suffered is a big setback bc he's new to the team and due to Kawhi's own injuries the team hadn't really integrated him in the style they wanted him for besides Kawhi...

Anyways, it is frustrating... at the same time it's an interesting puzzle to watch how they will eventually emerge from this... if they will at some point be all healthy and also what happens to the guys who have developed and kept the team afloat in this stretch.

Spot on. It's been good to see some guys step up. LMA has been a workhorse all season and, frankly, the Spurs would be lost without him right now.

Pau looks much more comfortable and is leading the team in assists, which is as much of a testament to his passing ability as it is to the fact that Mills and Murray really aren't playmakers.

(Ironically, aren't those the two guys that SpursTalkers were bemoaning all offseason?)

Manu, Forbes, Anderson, and now Bertans have all had their moments, while others (Paul, Joff, White) have left much to be desired.

Gay started strong, but seems to have trailed off in the past month or so...we can only hope it's the sore heel.

Would be really nice to see a healthy lineup and let the guys start to build some actual chemistry, but all we can do is wait right now. Fortunately, still a lot of games to be played.

[SAGirl]

Pau and Mills combine for $27 Million. I don't think it will be a great point. If anything, PATFO have a much better point in saying that had they let those guys walk, the team would be barely in the playoff race. People act as if Kawhi missing half the season doesn't affect his value. It absolutely does. A top-10 player playing a half-season does not have a top-10 impact. Kawhi still has work to do to make his current salary worth it this year. He has quite the task ahead of him to give the team $40 Million in value, or even $80 Million in the next seaon-and-a-half.
He does have that. Tony hasn't been giving value for a couple of years already, maybe more... but he was already locked into his contract. I bet his "brittleness", age and rest/injury management will come up in future negotiations.

Not sure if applies to Kawhi bc he's young and provided he can return to his previous level of play, there is no question he will be in the discussion for the supermax. That will affect the team for sure. You just can't have Paus and Pattys around (using them as an example BG quoted, not wanting to make it a Pau/Patty critical thread... just let's say their contracts).

It's a good point that with a supermax Kiwi, the roster will be more bare... eventually I think it may normalize, the NBA player/middle class may get squeezed out completely maybe. The phenomenon that will hit the Spurs will hit others. It will hit current and future FA as well. AS you said it may have NBA player ramifications. For now it is what it is. It's an interesting topic for me to chat about but I do think Kiwi will get the supermax, barring something that will affect future performance...

[Seventyniner]

Manu, Forbes, Anderson, and now Bertans have all had their moments, while others (Paul, Joff, White) have left much to be desired.

Good points overall. A minor nit to pick: White doesn't yet deserve to be lumped in with Paul and Joff. Those two have had plenty of chances while White has only played 64 minutes all season. He may not be all that good but he has seen so little time against NBA competition we just can't know yet.