Alcoholics Anonymous is a scam

[RandomGuy]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/?utm_source=atlfb

It's self-reported success rate of 100% is an obvious lie, and what data we do have says that no treatment at all works as good, if not better.

[Will Hunting]

The 12 step program has a success rate of roughly 10% iirc, it’s a total scam drug treatment centers are allowed to charge way too much money for.

[spurraider21]

AA and NA worked for my cousin. Anecdotal evidence ftw

[RandomGuy]

AA and NA worked for my cousin. Anecdotal evidence ftw

Well-played. I stand corrected. ;)

[spurraider21]

Well-played. I stand corrected. ;)
he's about 8 years older than me, and for most of my life he was kinda the family fuck up. did nothing school wise, work wise... spent most of his time drumming for what were garage bands, then went deep into alcohol/oxy. around 24/25 he went into rehab (did it at home), and has been an AA/NA regular since. totally turned his life around, got a degree in music theory, plays percussion for TV/movie sets, went full vegan/hipster, etc :lol... he's become something of a role model and he personally swears by AA. i know stats trump anecdotes (or as shapiro would say, facts dont care about feelings), but its hard for me to pile on given that. its also true that having a really strong family/support system probably contributed as much if not more, helping him find work, have a place to live, etc

[baseline bum]

The 12 step program has a success rate of roughly 10% iirc, it’s a total scam drug treatment centers are allowed to charge way too much money for.

I have heard AA's success rate was more like 5%, right in line with no treatment at all. AA is such a piece of shit since they train you to believe alcoholism is a disease and not a fucking choice. And the members are supposed to make AA their entire social life. I think I'd swallow my Mossberg if I had to go listen to sob stories from alcoholic losers two hours a night, 5 nights a week.

[boutons_deux]

AA is also very close to being a religious group, so naturally is qualifies as a scam.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hi, my name is CC and I'm not an alcoholic but I fucking really like drinking.

[Blake]

Hi, my name is CC and I'm not as rich as my butler would have you think

[Spurtacular]

RandomGuy triggered by a program that requires one to accept "a higher power." :lmao

[Blake]

RandomGuy triggered by a program that requires one to accept "a higher power." :lmao

Which is wrong when it's court mandated for dwi offenders

[Spurtacular]

Which is wrong when it's court mandated for dwi offenders

:lmao "Wrong"
:lmao You do realize that "higher power" could mean anything that basically helps the person?
:lmao 'Believing in a greater force for good is evil!'

[RandomGuy]

he's about 8 years older than me, and for most of my life he was kinda the family fuck up. did nothing school wise, work wise... spent most of his time drumming for what were garage bands, then went deep into alcohol/oxy. around 24/25 he went into rehab (did it at home), and has been an AA/NA regular since. totally turned his life around, got a degree in music theory, plays percussion for TV/movie sets, went full vegan/hipster, etc :lol... he's become something of a role model and he personally swears by AA. i know stats trump anecdotes (or as shapiro would say, facts dont care about feelings), but its hard for me to pile on given that. its also true that having a really strong family/support system probably contributed as much if not more, helping him find work, have a place to live, etc

My understanding is that the available actual data says AA is indistinguishable from no treatment, in terms of success rates, if not actually a bit worse than other treatments.

What they are good at, is taking credit for successes and brainwashing people into thinking it was the program. That is part of the problem, IMO.

If it is effective, and/or more effective than alternatives, then there should be data to support that. There really isn't.

[RandomGuy]

RandomGuy [derision][smiley]

You work way too hard to get my attention, but so rarely deserve it. I am not going to bother putting you on ignore, but will stop responding to most of your posts, unless you put some thought into them. Well-meant and freely given.

[RandomGuy]

Which is wrong when it's court mandated for dwi offenders

That is a good point, thanks.

[spurraider21]

My understanding is that the available actual data says AA is indistinguishable from no treatment, in terms of success rates, if not actually a bit worse than other treatments.

What they are good at, is taking credit for successes and brainwashing people into thinking it was the program. That is part of the problem, IMO.

If it is effective, and/or more effective than alternatives, then there should be data to support that. There really isn't.
dont really disagree... already acknowledged it was purely anecdotal

the weird thing is he's always been an atheist as far as i can remember (or at the very least agnostic. definitely not religious or spiritual) and i never heard him mention that aspect of AA, though as the atlantic article says, the different groups are run with relative autonomy

[Blake]

:lmao "Wrong"
:lmao You do realize that "higher power" could mean anything that basically helps the person?
:lmao 'Believing in a greater force for good is evil!'

:lmao "1st amendment"
:lmao you do realize that "higher power" could mean Satan?
:lmao believing in the Force

[koriwhat]

our justice system is a scam too

[Blake]

our justice system is a scam too

It'd be so hilarious if you were really upbeat, positive and happy in real life.

[koriwhat]

It'd be so hilarious if you were really upbeat, positive and happy in real life.

i actually am. of course like most, i have my moments of being down but generally i am pretty upbeat.

[koriwhat]

btw, i have nothing against AA... if it works for some that's better than not working at all. i have 1 or 2 friends i know that it's worked for and i hope it keeps working for them.

[Blake]

i actually am. of course like most, i have my moments of being down but generally i am pretty upbeat.

Sure

[koriwhat]

Sure

so pissy... cheer up buttercup.

[Isitjustme?]

I have heard AA's success rate was more like 5%, right in line with no treatment at all. AA is such a piece of shit since they train you to believe alcoholism is a disease and not a fucking choice. And the members are supposed to make AA their entire social life. I think I'd swallow my Mossberg if I had to go listen to sob stories from alcoholic losers two hours a night, 5 nights a week.

Lmao that is a depressing scenario

[Blake]

so pissy... cheer up buttercup.

Lol trying to flip the script

[koriwhat]

Lol trying to flip the script

what script are you reading from?

yall perceive what yall want to perceive and perception is 99% truth so that's the rock yall hold on to. you have no idea who i really am or how i am in real life and yet you claim to know. that to me is just plain stupidity.

[Blake]

what script are you reading from?

yall perceive what yall want to perceive and perception is 99% truth so that's the rock yall hold on to. you have no idea who i really am or how i am in real life and yet you claim to know. that to me is just plain stupidity.

So pissy.

[koriwhat]

So pissy.

so sissy.

[CosmicCowboy]

Blake, get back to us when you arent triggered by people with credit cards.

[spurraider21]

Get back to us when you arent triggered by people with credit cards.
:lol

[baseline bum]

Lmao that is a depressing scenario

It is. I had a roommate in college who was in it and all he ever wanted to do was go to meetings. Damn was I happy to move at the end of the quarter. :lol

[Blake]

Get back to us when you arent triggered by people with credit cards.

Sorry but I'll always get triggered by look at me threads in the political forum. Just too hilarious.

[SpursforSix]

Blake, get back to us when you arent triggered by people with credit cards.

It's not the credit cards...it's the gall of installing a locking mailbox. Fucking elitist.

[SpursforSix]

Sorry but I'll always get triggered by look at me threads in the political forum. Just too hilarious.

And this is a good point also.

[CosmicCowboy]

Sorry but I'll always get triggered by look at me threads in the political forum. Just too hilarious.

Its a pretty hilarious hair trigger when envy of a credit card sets you off.

[Blake]

Its a pretty hilarious hair trigger when envy of a credit card sets you off.

Yes, tell yourself that's why I'm making fun of you.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes, tell yourself that's why I'm making fun of you.

Sheeeeut! Your wife gave Sancho your Lone Star card, didn't she? That explains the insecure jealousy.

[Blake]

Sheeeeut! Your wife gave Sancho your Lone Star card, didn't she? That explains the insecure jealousy.

Your extreme butthurt would explain why you're in this thread still sour about my clowning you in your other thread.

[CosmicCowboy]

Your extreme butthurt would explain why you're in this thread still sour about my clowning you in your other thread.

Keep telling yourself that. Did you ever get you Lone Star card back after you got cucked?

[Blake]

Keep telling yourself that.

Will do

[CosmicCowboy]

Did Sancho have a VISA card? Is that why you have the plastic penis envy?

[Blake]

Did Sancho have a VISA card? Is that why you have the plastic penis envy?

Cool imaginings.

Here's mine: I'm picturing you sitting at your old office with the with wood panel walls, typing away on a nice but somewhat older desk top computer.

You smile as you finished that reply and you tell yourself, "that'll teach him"
.

[Blake]

And now you see that I've made a post in this thread and the wheels will start turning trying to think something up again about credit card or sancho smack.

And you're thinking you better hurry because it's almost time to get back home before wife calls you wondering why you're at the office later than usual.

[Blake]

Just guessing

[Spurtacular]

:lmao "1st amendment"
:lmao you do realize that "higher power" could mean Satan?
:lmao believing in the Force

Unhinged. Today's cuck.

[Spurtacular]

Sorry but I'll always get triggered by look at me threads in the political forum. Just too hilarious.

So RandomGuy triggered you, bruh?

[pgardn]

AA and NA worked for my cousin. Anecdotal evidence ftw

Same here.
He said he realized there was much further to drop.
Kept him scared from ever picking up a drink as well. I think he's been sober for ~ 8 years. He was a pain in the ass before he got to those meetings.

[pgardn]

I have heard AA's success rate was more like 5%, right in line with no treatment at all. AA is such a piece of shit since they train you to believe alcoholism is a disease and not a fucking choice. And the members are supposed to make AA their entire social life. I think I'd swallow my Mossberg if I had to go listen to sob stories from alcoholic losers two hours a night, 5 nights a week.


No doubt in my mind there is a genetic component that plays a role in the propensity to become addicted. That being said, it is also involves choice and will power. Like most behavioral disorders that have a genetic component. Btw, strict Christians believe sexual preference is all choice.

[rogcl1]

I have heard AA's success rate was more like 5%, right in line with no treatment at all. AA is such a piece of shit since they train you to believe alcoholism is a disease and not a fucking choice. And the members are supposed to make AA their entire social life. I think I'd swallow my Mossberg if I had to go listen to sob stories from alcoholic losers two hours a night, 5 nights a week.

Amen Brother.

[rogcl1]

No doubt in my mind there is a genetic component that plays a role in the propensity to become addicted. That being said, it is also involves choice and will power. Like most behavioral disorders that have a genetic component. Btw, strict Christians believe sexual preference is all choice.

I do believe there are personalities more subject to addiction than others but ultimately we are in control of our choices . Friends and family support are irreplaceable, but for me the thought of always listening to others problems at meetings would drive me crazy. Sort of like that person you know that when you see them they are always negative and always complaining about everything.

[pgardn]

I do believe there are personalities more subject to addiction than others but ultimately we are in control of our choices . Friends and family support are irreplaceable, but for me the thought of always listening to others problems at meetings would drive me crazy. Sort of like that person you know that when you see them they are always negative and always complaining about everything.

Hearing about other's problems and how bad they are seems to ground my cuz.
Different strokes...

I seriously can't drink more than 2 beers and get bloated. If my cuz started, he would have a huge struggle to stop.
Im lucky. I like a little alcohol and then it just sucks. So the will to stop is a tough thing, for some of us. But you are right it can be controlled. I can't turn my eyes brown through sheer will.

And my brother can drink a ton and then just turn it off for as long as he wants... months. Strange world.

[CosmicCowboy]

Cool imaginings.

Here's mine: I'm picturing you sitting at your old office with the with wood panel walls, typing away on a nice but somewhat older desk top computer.

You smile as you finished that reply and you tell yourself, "that'll teach him"
.
Seriously? I imagined you dictating this post to your Astin Martin as you threw the gate guard a cnote going into your house on the hill at the Dominion as boutons gave you a blow job. Guess we are both psychic.

[DMC]

he's about 8 years older than me, and for most of my life he was kinda the family fuck up. did nothing school wise, work wise... spent most of his time drumming for what were garage bands, then went deep into alcohol/oxy. around 24/25 he went into rehab (did it at home), and has been an AA/NA regular since. totally turned his life around, got a degree in music theory, plays percussion for TV/movie sets, went full vegan/hipster, etc :lol... he's become something of a role model and he personally swears by AA. i know stats trump anecdotes (or as shapiro would say, facts dont care about feelings), but its hard for me to pile on given that. its also true that having a really strong family/support system probably contributed as much if not more, helping him find work, have a place to live, etc
*Ding!*

[Blake]

Seriously? I imagined you dictating this post to your Astin Martin as you threw the gate guard a cnote going into your house on the hill at the Dominion as boutons gave you a blow job. Guess we are both psychic.

We both know whose imaginings are closer to reality

[spurraider21]

*Ding!*
:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

We both know whose imaginings are closer to reality

Yeah.

Tell your momny hi for me.

[tlongII]

I agree that AA is a scam. But if some people feel it is helping them, good for them.

[Spurminator]

Anyone who has been helped by AA would likely also be helped by a better program.

[rogcl1]

Hearing about other's problems and how bad they are seems to ground my cuz.
Different strokes...

I seriously can't drink more than 2 beers and get bloated. If my cuz started, he would have a huge struggle to stop.
Im lucky. I like a little alcohol and then it just sucks. So the will to stop is a tough thing, for some of us. But you are right it can be controlled. I can't turn my eyes brown through sheer will.
.
And my brother can drink a ton and then just turn it off for as long as he wants... months. Strange world.

Yes, sometimes a little bit of hearing of other's problems can be beneficial but too much sucks. I agree. Different strokes. That is something that seems to be getting lost in our country today.

[DMC]

Anyone who has been helped by AA would likely also be helped by a better program.

That's profound

[DisAsTerBot]

Seriously? I imagined you dictating this post to your Astin Martin as you threw the gate guard a cnote going into your house on the hill at the Dominion as boutons gave you a blow job. Guess we are both psychic.

You don’t interact with the guards at the dominion to get through the gate. Tbh