Ever since Bud left, the spurs system has been antiquated.

[apalisoc_9]

So many isos.

Rated very poorly offensively.

Pop will get 100% of the credit for all success, but its funny how the spurs have been complete ape shit offensively since bud left.

[tbdog]

We don't exactly have the personal to play the way we are custom to seeing. Our best drivers are way to old. This has been an issue for a while now and head office dud not address. As much as we want a big, we desperately need a PG or SG that can drive.

[TheGreatYacht]

We're running postups like it's 1986. To top it off Fathead and Fatty Melt have to be the worst entry passers in NBA history

[Dex]

Spurs best offense was from 2012-2014 which was post Bud.

Not sure why we went away from the Beautiful Game tbh. I know LMA and Kawhi like their ISOs, but I feel like they could be even better in a real offense.

[spurraider21]

Spurs best offense was from 2012-2014 which was post Bud.

Not sure why we went away from the Beautiful Game tbh. I know LMA and Kawhi like their ISOs, but I feel like they could be even better in a real offense.
yeah, it's less to do with bud and more about the way our 2 best offensive players operate.

the decline of parker (basically killing our pick and roll game), diaw, duncan and emergence of kawhi have led to this more mechanical version of offense

[HarlemHeat37]

Spurs best offense was from 2012-2014 which was post Bud.

Not sure why we went away from the Beautiful Game tbh. I know LMA and Kawhi like their ISOs, but I feel like they could be even better in a real offense.

Aldridge would never play well in an offense like that IMO..

[spurraider21]

Aldridge would never play well in an offense like that IMO..
offense running through tony/duncan always had a lot of movement... that's natural in a pick and roll heavy system. right now our offense initiates by giving kawhi/LMA an entry pass and giving them room. it's why LMA was never a championship level #1 in portland. it's also why our offense goes to shit when they become so kawhi dependent and he suddenly gets hurt.

[TD 21]

Aldridge would never play well in an offense like that IMO..

I'd have said the same about DeRozan before this season. Reality is, if Aldridge or anyone is interested in even pretending to contend for a championship in this era, they have to be willing to. Nobody is riding ISO ball to a championship and before anyone says James and Irving, they caught a ton of breaks in the '16 Finals and Warriors didn't have Durant yet.

[YGWHI]

offense running through tony/duncan always had a lot of movement... that's natural in a pick and roll heavy system. right now our offense initiates by giving kawhi/LMA an entry pass and giving them room. it's why LMA was never a championship level #1 in portland. it's also why our offense goes to shit when they become so kawhi dependent and he suddenly gets hurt.

Agree about the lack of movement right now. But Kawhi and LMA don't operate in the same way. Kawhi didn't abuse of post-ups last season he was leading the league as ball handler in P&Rs situations a good part of the season

Having a guy that can drive strong and get calls isn't the same thing that having a guy expecting an entry pass

[spurraider21]

Agree about the lack of movement right now. But Kawhi and LMA don't operate in the same way. Kawhi didn't abuse of post-ups last season he was leading the league as ball handler in P&Rs situations a good part of the season

Having a guy that can drive strong and get calls isn't the same thing that having a guy expecting an entry pass
true, but even as the lead ball handler in P&R situations he was only averaging like 3.5 assists per game.

[tholdren]

Spurs best offense was from 2012-2014 which was post Bud.

Not sure why we went away from the Beautiful Game tbh. I know LMA and Kawhi like their ISOs, but I feel like they could be even better in a real offense.

One can dream. They cant move without the ball, and dont screen. They arent playmakers. They are scorers only.

[dabom]

Spurs best offense was from 2012-2014 which was post Bud.

Not sure why we went away from the Beautiful Game tbh. I know LMA and Kawhi like their ISOs, but I feel like they could be even better in a real offense.

Bud was here for 2013.

[dabom]

I'd take Bud over Pop right now.

[Dex]

Bud was here for 2013.

Good call...feels like he's been with Atlanta forever, but he left the summer of 2013.

Maybe OP has a point...perhaps Pop has been watering down his system after that.

[dabom]

2014 was an abnormality. The players wanted just as bad as the coaching staff. That catastrophic defeat galvanized us. Buds ideas could have stayed for one more year. But I don't think Pop has slacked off either. 2014 can't be repeated. Only beating GSWs could that happen. He was doing that last year before injuries happened. So no, Pop brought the magic last year. A lot of people are small picture type people.

[YGWHI]

true, but even as the lead ball handler in P&R situations he was only averaging like 3.5 assists per game.
Kawhi 4.6 apg in last playoffs

KD 4.3 apg in last playoffs

KD 3.9 apg in his career.

A player can facilitate the offense because of his own gravity on that end than for his assts numbers...

Until Kawhi got injured he had even better numbers than Harden and KD in last playoffs.

Of course averaging 10 apg is fantastic but it wasn't never the case of Spurs players in last 20 years.

I'm just saying that people think that Kawhi and LMA games are similar but they aren't. Both players get their points in a different way.

[spurraider21]

Kawhi 4.6 apg in last playoffs

KD 4.3 apg in last playoffs

KD 3.9 apg in his career.

A player can facilitate the offense because of his own gravity on that end than for his assts numbers...

Until Kawhi got injured he had even better numbers than Harden and KD in last playoffs.

Of course averaging 10 apg is fantastic but it wasn't never the case of Spurs scorers in last 20 years.

I'm just saying that people think that Kawhi and LMA games are similar but they aren't. Both players get their points in a different way.
KD on a team where Curry and Green do a lot of the facilitating and ball handling... vs Kawhi on a team that fed almost exclusively through him

[DPG21920]

KD on a team where Curry and Green do a lot of the facilitating and ball handling... vs Kawhi on a team that fed almost exclusively through him

Kawhi and KD have virtually identical usage rates the past 3 years.

[YGWHI]

KD on a team where Curry and Green do a lot of the facilitating and ball handling... vs Kawhi on a team that fed almost exclusively through him
Tons of guards on the team.. But a 40 years old guy is still the best of them.

It's stupid to expect that the team could surround Kawhi with GSW talent but playing him alongside 40 y o guys and inexperienced role players isn't ideal either. At least they should have gotten an upgrade at PG/SG positions...But it will never happen after Mills contract and next Parker deal.

[MaNu4Tres]

Aldridge would never play well in an offense like that IMO..

Tbh.. Aldridge is scoring more efficiently in PnR rolls to the basket (49%) than he is posting up (43%).

And Gasol has become an elite roller too ( shooting 74% in rolls vs 41% in post ups).

The problem is Pop has them posting up more than they roll in PnRs lol.

Which makes no sense to me because they could manufacture better looks off the roll for others than they can from the post.

[BackHome]

I totally agree I have no earthly idea what Poop is thinking?? Our offense just plain sucks and when your best ball handler SG is 49+ plus years old well the Poop amd RC screwed up.

[Spurtacular]

So many isos.

Rated very poorly offensively.

Pop will get 100% of the credit for all success, but its funny how the spurs have been complete ape shit offensively since bud left.

:lol Misusing a colloquial term in an OP.
:lol Today's rube.
:lol Soccer board is safe space.

[BillMc]

As if Bud has done such a bang up job with the Hawks. I'm surprised he's still employed. He'll be back here when he's fired, no worries OP.

[NASpurs]

As if Bud has done such a bang up job with the Hawks. I'm surprised he's still employed. He'll be back here when he's fired, no worries OP.

??? It's not like he's had a prime Duncan all of his career. He just took the Hawks to the Eastern Conference finals when they actually had a good team and got them out of the second round for the first time in 48 years. It's not his fault the Hawks are a shit organization with shit fans. But yeah, tear down Bud to prop up Poop.

[boutons_deux]

We're running postups like it's 1986. To top it off Fathead and Fatty Melt have to be the worst entry passers in NBA history

Pau has thrown away several hi-lo passes to LMA

[r0drig0lac]

We don't exactly have the personal to play the way we are custom to seeing. Our best drivers are way to old. This has been an issue for a while now and head office dud not address. As much as we want a big, we desperately need a PG or SG that can drive.
PATFO fault
while our main offensive weapon is a 6'11"SG, we have no chance

[Brazil]

No peak Parker = No Honey

[nyspurguy]

So basically if Kawhi plays the Spurs are contenders n if he doesn't we're milk toast

[nyspurguy]

This team has 3 players averaging double digits in scoring. But wait it gets more pathetic..1 of those players is currently injured. Another has played in less than ten games. And the final 1 is....well he's playing.

[LittleCriminal]

Relax, the offense will get better when and if the team returns to full health.

[BillMc]

??? It's not like he's had a prime Duncan all of his career. He just took the Hawks to the Eastern Conference finals when they actually had a good team and got them out of the second round for the first time in 48 years. It's not his fault the Hawks are a shit organization with shit fans. But yeah, tear down Bud to prop up Poop.

I made no mention of Pop. I stated that Bud hasn't done a bang up job. There is a reason he lost the GM position. And I stand by what I said. If Bud is fired, there's very good chance he comes back to the Spurs in some capacity.

[Chinook]

I made no mention of Pop. I stated that Bud hasn't done a bang up job. There is a reason he lost the GM position. And I stand by what I said. If Bud is fired, there's very good chance he comes back to the Spurs in some capacity.

I wouldn't be a big fan, honestly. I'd rather the team stayed moved on. I actually think Bud would find another job in the same off-season. Dude is a good coach who made Millsap into a max player. There are plenty of team I think he'd improve.

[TD 21]

Tbh.. Aldridge is scoring more efficiently in PnR rolls to the basket (49%) than he is posting up (43%).

And Gasol has become an elite roller too ( shooting 74% in rolls vs 41% in post ups).

The problem is Pop has them posting up more than they roll in PnRs lol.

Which makes no sense to me because they could manufacture better looks off the roll for others than they can from the post.

Would makes sense if they had a perimeter player who could effectively run it on a consistent basis. Instead, Gay, Ginobili, Mills and Murray, are among the highest turnover players out of it.

I know it's off topic and redundant, but you not only get this with a guy like Walker, but you probably get an Aldridge that's more amendable to it too.

[Arcadian]

:lol Bud switched teams right after the 2013 blunder and right before the 2014 title run. Bad timing.

[MaNu4Tres]

Would makes sense if they had a perimeter player who could effectively run it on a consistent basis. Instead, Gay, Ginobili, Mills and Murray, are among the highest turnover players out of it.

I know it's off topic and redundant, but you not only get this with a guy like Walker, but you probably get an Aldridge that's more amendable to it too.

Tyreke Evans would be an easier grab than Walker. He'd be the best PnR creator Spurs would have. I'd start him at point too.

[TD 21]

Tyreke Evans would be an easier grab than Walker. He'd be the best PnR creator Spurs would have. I'd start him at point too.

:tu

Have thought this too, but wouldn't have his Bird rights, which would mean having to utilize cap space to re-sign him and that would be difficult. Despite his strong season to date, given his injury history and the lack of cap space league wide, he probably goes for the MLE.

[MaNu4Tres]

:tu

Have thought this too, but wouldn't have his Bird rights, which would mean having to utilize cap space to re-sign him and that would be difficult. Despite his strong season to date, given his injury history and the lack of cap space league wide, he probably goes for the MLE.

I'd gamble and offer White, BP3 and rights to Milutinov to bring him in w hopes to re sign him on a MLE 1+1 deal like Gay.

[TD 21]

I'd gamble and offer White, BP3 and rights to Milutinov to bring him in w hopes to re sign him on a MLE 1+1 deal like Gay.

Value wise, that's a no brainer; but it wouldn't solve the no Bird rights issue. Spurs would still have to create cap space to sign Evans to MLE 1+1 type deal.

[Ditty]

Bud was overrated. We won the championship the following season without him. Carlesimo was Pop's best right hand man.

[Ditty]

I would take Bud over Pop right now though

[TheDoctor]

Ever since I left the City you...
https://img.fireden.net/v/image/1451/70/1451703022842.gif

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

He's a good coach. The Bucks winning the title doesn't change my opinion of him. Better than Pop?? No way. At least not the enthusiastic and engaged version of Pop. You can debate Pop's enthusiasm the last 2 1/2 years or so.

[Texas_Ranger]

bud is an average coach.

[Spurtacular]

He's a good coach. The Bucks winning the title doesn't change my opinion of him. Better than Pop?? No way. At least not the enthusiastic and engaged version of Pop. You can debate Pop's enthusiasm the last 2 1/2 years or so.

Gregg threw away a ring (2013) by refusing to play Timmy and close out the championship series. I don't honestly know if there's anything comparable.

[koriwhat]

I'd way rather have Bud rn and have wanted Bud as HC since like 2016 but he left for greener pastures not having to be 2nd fiddle to a dude who gives no fucks any longer and hasn't for some years now.

[K...]

Why is it always "pop dont care" and not "players too dumb". Are people waiting for a coach that speaks eubonics and memes?

[Rummpd]

Bud >>> Pop and it is not even close. Pop would have screwed up Giannis. Pop is the idiot that sat Duncan at end of finals game. Most over-rated coach ever.

[Sugus]

:lmao Spurstalk's hate boner on Pop never fails to make me laugh. Everyone circle-jerking around Pop sitting Timmy to shit on him, completely glossing over the fact that Pop had to have the Spurs in the Finals to even be able to make that mistake in the first place. Close to 10 years later, a ring later, and folks still haven't lived it down. Thinking Bud (a coach repeatedly and famously criticized for under-playing their stars!!) wouldn't have made a mistake in that situation, or in the multiple previous instances, that would've prevented the Spurs from ringing too, is laughable.

Fucking Bud :lmao the guy consistently underperformed in the POs until he got carried by a superstar on a mission in Giannis. For all the talk around here of Duncan carrying Pop, y'all sure aren't using that same stick to evaluate Bud right now, even with Giannis dropping ¡50! to close out the series. The myopic strength of ST is impressive.

For the record, Bud right now is still preferable over current Pop IMO, just because Pop's done as a coach mentally, but it's a low, low bar to cross (sadly); and building up Bud as some genius that would've won us '13 is plain stupid.

[R. DeMurre]

:lmao Spurstalk's hate boner on Pop never fails to make me laugh. Everyone circle-jerking around Pop sitting Timmy to shit on him, completely glossing over the fact that Pop had to have the Spurs in the Finals to even be able to make that mistake in the first place. Close to 10 years later, a ring later, and folks still haven't lived it down. Thinking Bud (a coach repeatedly and famously criticized for under-playing their stars!!) wouldn't have made a mistake in that situation, or in the multiple previous instances, that would've prevented the Spurs from ringing too, is laughable.

Fucking Bud :lmao the guy consistently underperformed in the POs until he got carried by a superstar on a mission in Giannis. For all the talk around here of Duncan carrying Pop, y'all sure aren't using that same stick to evaluate Bud right now, even with Giannis dropping ¡50! to close out the series. The myopic strength of ST is impressive.

For the record, Bud right now is still preferable over current Pop IMO, just because Pop's done as a coach mentally, but it's a low, low bar to cross (sadly); and building up Bud as some genius that would've won us '13 is plain stupid.

It's the same with Giannis! I've been calling him a superstar all year and saying he was being overlooked. I was astonished when the odds on mybookie.com for the Bucks were 10-1 before the playoffs started... I bet $150 and won $1500, so I'm obviously very happy. But now suddenly all these people who said Giannis would never win a title because he couldn't shoot are saying he's the best player in the league and a great symbol of class and humility! Love it.

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

I like that Giannis threw some major shade at the whole super team strategy...the memes of KD were hilarious!!!

[Seventyniner]

:lmao Spurstalk's hate boner on Pop never fails to make me laugh. Everyone circle-jerking around Pop sitting Timmy to shit on him, completely glossing over the fact that Pop had to have the Spurs in the Finals to even be able to make that mistake in the first place. Close to 10 years later, a ring later, and folks still haven't lived it down. Thinking Bud (a coach repeatedly and famously criticized for under-playing their stars!!) wouldn't have made a mistake in that situation, or in the multiple previous instances, that would've prevented the Spurs from ringing too, is laughable.

Fucking Bud :lmao the guy consistently underperformed in the POs until he got carried by a superstar on a mission in Giannis. For all the talk around here of Duncan carrying Pop, y'all sure aren't using that same stick to evaluate Bud right now, even with Giannis dropping ¡50! to close out the series. The myopic strength of ST is impressive.

For the record, Bud right now is still preferable over current Pop IMO, just because Pop's done as a coach mentally, but it's a low, low bar to cross (sadly); and building up Bud as some genius that would've won us '13 is plain stupid.

Well said. :bobo

And I'm in the unpopular crew that thinks benching Duncan there wasn't a mistake at all. It was playing the odds by putting five players on the floor that could guard the three-point line. A bad result does not automatically imply a bad decision.

[Sugus]

It's the same with Giannis! I've been calling him a superstar all year and saying he was being overlooked. I was astonished when the odds on mybookie.com for the Bucks were 10-1 before the playoffs started... I bet $150 and won $1500, so I'm obviously very happy. But now suddenly all these people who said Giannis would never win a title because he couldn't shoot are saying he's the best player in the league and a great symbol of class and humility! Love it.

Totally agreed. Not only on Giannis (nice job on that bet! Total respect to you for putting your money where your mouth was, enjoy the payout my guy) but the whole narrative shift. Suddenly Giannis is some perfect player, a literal god, and Bud's struggles and bad coaching habits get swooped under the carpet because he won a ring. I still remember everyone and their mother saying the Bucks had to get rid of him when this past season was starting...

And yeah, Giannis has been a superstar for some time now, since his first MVP probably. American fans are too myopic in assessing players' popularity since they only care for the local market. Same people will say Doncic or Jokic aren't superstars right now... Basketball is more global than ever before, and US folks are too quick at assuming that since they don't care for a foreign star, that the world won't either, when it's the exact opposite. Very skewed optics.