Why Manu Ginobili Should've Been The 2005 Finals MVP

[daledondale]

Interesting video, i didn't see posted before.
The guy gives many reasons for Manu to MVP in 2005.
Not disrespect to the greatest player of the franchise (Duncan), but i think that Manu was a force in 2005.
Discuss.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Y9ucKnfE8&t=1s

[DAF86]

I think this has already been posted. Imho, Manu and Timmy should have been co-MVP's.

[spurraider21]

i remember feeling certain that he would win mvp. timmy choking down the stretch in game 5 probably shoulda cost him imho

07 was such a blowout series that the F-MVP award didn't feel as impactful

Duncan would have been mvp in 2013 if they were able to close that one out. woulda been an amazing accomplishment at that age

[gambit1990]

manu had great advanced stats that series. WAY better than kobe’s the year before when he faced pretty much the same roster.

[apalisoc_9]

Argentinian fans :smdh

[daslicer]

Argentinian fans :smdh

This

[cd98]

Both have arguments. People forget when Duncan came up big against Detroit in the 3/4 quarters of game 7. Manu was a stud too. That was back when Pop cared about basketball and not politics.

[MaNu4Tres]

He almost did. 1 vote shy of a tie.

Manu in 05 was on the same level as Kobe. Maybe better, THAT year. He was incredible.

[cd98]

He almost did. 1 vote shy of a tie.

Manu in 05 was on the same level as Kobe. Maybe better, THAT year. He was incredible.


That’s a little overboard. But Manu was great.

[MaNu4Tres]

That’s a little overboard. But Manu was great.

Nah it's not, in a playoff run where Tim was hobbled & Tony was inconsistent at best...Manu was that great. Go watch all the Game 5s that playoff run and Game 7 vs Det.

[cd98]

Nah it's not, in a playoff run where Tim was hobbled & Tony was inconsistent at best...Manu was that great. Go watch all the Game 5s that playoff run and Game 7 vs Det.

Manu was great, but he never reached Kobe great. But that’s not a knock on Manu. In his own way, he is a legend.

[DAF86]

Manu was great, but he never reached Kobe great. But that’s not a knock on Manu. In his own way, he is a legend.

Here are Manu's '05 advanced stats vs Kobe's best playoffs run ('09):

Manu - TS%: .652 - WS/48: .260 - OBPM: 7.2 - DBPM: 1.5 - BPM: 8.7 - VORP: 2.1

Kobe - TS%: .564 - WS/48: .238 - OBPM: 6.8 - DBPM: 0.6 - BPM: 7.5 - VORP: 2.2

Manu's are actually better.

[cd98]

Here are Manu's '05 advanced stats vs Kobe's best playoffs run ('09):

Manu - TS%: .652 - WS/48: .260 - OBPM: 7.2 - DBPM: 1.5 - BPM: 8.7 - VORP: 2.1

Kobe - TS%: .564 - WS/48: .238 - OBPM: 6.8 - DBPM: 0.6 - BPM: 7.5 - VORP: 2.2

Manu's are actually better.

Kobe was a much better player. Only Argentina fans will disagree. But the fact that Kobe was better doesn’t mean Manu wasn’t great. He was just a level below Kobe. That’s no shame. Kobe is underrated as an all time great.

[DAF86]

Kobe was a much better player. Only Argentina fans will disagree. But the fact that Kobe was better doesn’t mean Manu wasn’t great. He was just a level below Kobe. That’s no shame. Kobe is underrated as an all time great.

Nobody is saying Kobe wasn't a better player than Manu. I'm just providing stats that support MaNu4Tres's comment about that '05 Manu run being on par with any Kobe run.

I don't know why are you even implying that anybody dared to say Manu > or = Kobe.

[TheGreatYacht]

Argentinian fans :smdh

[Spurtacular]

I know I've argued for this on other threads, tbh. What I recall being my main reason for the case is Manu #'s vs. TD #'s in Spurs wins. There was a definite chasm IIRC.

I think one poster (whom I don't recall) nailed it: Stern wasn't going to let Manu win after he embarrassed USA basketball in 2004.

[Spurtacular]

Kobe was a much better player. Only Argentina fans will disagree. But the fact that Kobe was better doesn’t mean Manu wasn’t great. He was just a level below Kobe. That’s no shame. Kobe is underrated as an all time great.

Bro, you said some BS, and you got called out. Don't double down on stupid.

[Spurtacular]

:lol From the Video: Kobe Jordan and Michael Bryant second to last and last (48 and 49) in FMVP FG% (96 - .415 10 - .405).
:lol Pippen and Pau were the real FMVP's on those teams.

[Pocho La Pantera]

:lol From the Video: Kobe Jordan and Michael Bryant second to last and last (48 and 49) in FMVP FG% (96 - .415 10 - .405).
:lol Pippen and Pau were the real FMVP's on those teams. argentinian fans:wow

[boutons_deux]

I'll never forget Tim missing a putback at the buzzer '05 Game5, resulting in OT, and Horry bailing out Tim and the Spurs.

Very similar to the putback Tim missed in '13 Game7. (then slapping the floor), and costing Spurs the title.

[r0drig0lac]

Kobe was a much better player. Only Argentina fans will disagree. But the fact that Kobe was better doesn’t mean Manu wasn’t great. He was just a level below Kobe. That’s no shame. Kobe is underrated as an all time great.

you're right ..i love manu but Kobe >>>

[cutewizard]

He almost did. 1 vote shy of a tie.

Manu in 05 was on the same level as Kobe. Maybe better, THAT year. He was incredible.

Agree

[cd98]

Bro, you said some BS, and you got called out. Don't double down on stupid.

????

People that don’t acknowledge Kobe’s greatness don’t know anything about basketball. Sure he was selfish and obsessed with being 23, but I have been a Spurs fan since the late 80s as a kid, and no player in the NBA was I more afraid of with the Spurs up by 20 than Kobe. He was the real deal and if he hadn’t been a Laker, he’d have gotten more respect on this site.

[Phenomanul]

????

People that don’t acknowledge Kobe’s greatness don’t know anything about basketball. Sure he was selfish and obsessed with being 23, but I have been a Spurs fan since the late 80s as a kid, and no player in the NBA was I more afraid of with the Spurs up by 20 than Kobe. He was the real deal and if he hadn’t been a Laker, he’d have gotten more respect on this site.


You're missing the point.

THE POINT was that Manu's 2005 post-season run was as great or better than any of Kobe's. The numbers prove that. Anyone who saw those games, with Manu going bananas against the Nuggets, the Sonics, Nash's Suns, and Detroit could come to the same understanding. Kobe really struggled with those Pistons - Manu tore them up.

So yes, no one is arguing against the opinion that Kobe's career is "grander" than Manu's. But that one run by Manu is rather legendary.

[MaNu4Tres]

You're missing the point.

THE POINT was that Manu's 2005 post-season run was as great or better than any of Kobe's. The numbers prove that. Anyone who saw those games, with Manu going bananas against the Nuggets, the Sonics, Nash's Suns, and Detroit could come to the same understanding. Kobe really struggled with those Pistons - Manu tore them up.

So yes, no one is arguing against the opinion that Kobe's career is "grander" than Manu's. But that one run by Manu is rather legendary.

Ahh.. good comprehension is refreshing to see in 2018.

[DAF86]

you're right ..i love manu but Kobe >>>

And nobody here is saying otherwise. I don't know why cd98 started bringing that up. :lol

[Budkin]

There was nothing like that version of Manu with the long flowing hair going every which way. Obi-wan Ginobili!

[r0drig0lac]

And nobody here is saying otherwise. I don't know why cd98 started bringing that up. :lol

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif my bad

[cd98]

You're missing the point.

THE POINT was that Manu's 2005 post-season run was as great or better than any of Kobe's. The numbers prove that. Anyone who saw those games, with Manu going bananas against the Nuggets, the Sonics, Nash's Suns, and Detroit could come to the same understanding. Kobe really struggled with those Pistons - Manu tore them up.

So yes, no one is arguing against the opinion that Kobe's career is "grander" than Manu's. But that one run by Manu is rather legendary.

i didn’t confuse that issue. I wasn’t willing to go so far as to say Manu’s 2005 playoff run was on Kobe’s level. Advanced stats don’t tell the whole story. But the thread has been hijacked. It was a great run by Manu and I thought he’d get the MVP after how he played against Detroit. Part of me wanted Tim to get it to add to his accolades and argument that he was the best ever, but he was never going to get that title playing for San Antonio. But that is a different story. Best part of Manu’s run that year was collecting flagrant fouls from all the fools that thought fouling him hard would deter him from taking it to the basket. Loved how he responded to Thuggets and then Sonics. Detroit had respect for Manu.

[DAF86]

i didn’t confuse that issue. I wasn’t willing to go so far as to say Manu’s 2005 playoff run was on Kobe’s level. Advanced stats don’t tell the whole story. But the thread has been hijacked. It was a great run by Manu and I thought he’d get the MVP after how he played against Detroit. Part of me wanted Tim to get it to add to his accolades and argument that he was the best ever, but he was never going to get that title playing for San Antonio. But that is a different story. Best part of Manu’s run that year was collecting flagrant fouls from all the fools that thought fouling him hard would deter him from taking it to the basket. Loved how he responded to Thuggets and then Sonics. Detroit had respect for Manu.

Well then, you shouldn't have started saying this:


Kobe was a much better player. Only Argentina fans will disagree. But the fact that Kobe was better doesn’t mean Manu wasn’t great. He was just a level below Kobe. That’s no shame. Kobe is underrated as an all time great.

When nobody was arguing otherwise.

[Phenomanul]

i didn’t confuse that issue. I wasn’t willing to go so far as to say Manu’s 2005 playoff run was on Kobe’s level. Advanced stats don’t tell the whole story. But the thread has been hijacked. It was a great run by Manu and I thought he’d get the MVP after how he played against Detroit. Part of me wanted Tim to get it to add to his accolades and argument that he was the best ever, but he was never going to get that title playing for San Antonio. But that is a different story. Best part of Manu’s run that year was collecting flagrant fouls from all the fools that thought fouling him hard would deter him from taking it to the basket. Loved how he responded to Thuggets and then Sonics. Detroit had respect for Manu.

But it's not just the advanced stats... Not only were his games dominant - he took the reigns in the clutch that post-season. He ran the team, called the plays and delivered. The only two games where he was "lackluster" were the first two home games at Detroit due to the knee he took by Prince early in Game 3.

I cannot recall a Finals series by Kobe, let alone an entire run that was stamped with a signature increase in the level of his game.

[wildbill2u]

Timmy went through a stretch where his FT shooting became a liability and other teams could use the hack-a-Duncan in the late going. Some folks thought he just choked, but I always attributed it to his shooting form.

[pad300]

IMO, the idea that Manu should have been 2005 Finals MVP is in fact wrong. Look at the boxscores for the games. IIRC, when we won, Tim outplayed or played even with 2 starters combined - Ben and Rasheed. When he didn't do that, we lost. He was our MVP.

[DAF86]

IMO, the idea that Manu should have been 2005 Finals MVP is in fact wrong. Look at the boxscores for the games. IIRC, when we won, Tim outplayed or played even with 2 starters combined - Ben and Rasheed. When he didn't do that, we lost. He was our MVP.

On the games we won:

Tim: 23. 2 ppg - 2 apg - 14.5 rpg - 43 FG%

Manu: 23 ppg - 5.5 apg - 6 rpg - 55 FG%

Raw numbers are pretty even with Manu having the edge on efficiency, I can't find the advanced numbers for these games but they will probably favour Manu by a considerable margin. Like I said, they should have been co-MVP's, but if only one should have got it, Manu was better.

[Chris Fall]

I would have given Ginobili the FMVP too. But to play devils advocate, part of the reason could have been Manu's scoring inconsistency game to game in those Finals. He balled out in games 1, 2, and 7. Was below average scoring in the middle 4 games.

Games 1, 2, 7: 25.3 PPG, 64.9% FG, 72.7% 3PT
Games 3-6: 13.8 PPG, 37.5% FG, 20% 3PT

Now Duncan's scoring efficiency was also inconsistent that series. But actual scoring plus his defense and rebounding was not. Still Ginobili certainly had a strong argument to win it.

[DAF86]

I would have given Ginobili the FMVP too. But to play devils advocate, part of the reason could have been Manu's scoring inconsistency game to game in those Finals. He balled out in games 1, 2, and 7. Was below average scoring in the middle 4 games.

Games 1, 2, 7: 25.3 PPG, 64.9% FG, 72.7% 3PT
Games 3-6: 13.8 PPG, 37.5% FG, 20% 3PT

Now Duncan's scoring efficiency was also inconsistent that series. But actual scoring plus his defense and rebounding was not. Still Ginobili certainly had a strong argument to win it.

Manu had 21 and 10 on game 6, tbh.

[Chris Fall]

I specifically talked about scoring efficiency though.

[spurraider21]

its easy to overanalyze this shit over a decade later, but in the moment i thought manu was pretty clearly the mvp imho

this is a post-truth america so i can use feelings instead of facts

[bklynspursfan]

I would have given Ginobili the FMVP too. But to play devils advocate, part of the reason could have been Manu's scoring inconsistency game to game in those Finals. He balled out in games 1, 2, and 7. Was below average scoring in the middle 4 games.

Games 1, 2, 7: 25.3 PPG, 64.9% FG, 72.7% 3PT
Games 3-6: 13.8 PPG, 37.5% FG, 20% 3PT

Now Duncan's scoring efficiency was also inconsistent that series. But actual scoring plus his defense and rebounding was not. Still Ginobili certainly had a strong argument to win it.

And in fairness, he was going up against an absolute beast of a defensive front court.

[DAF86]

I specifically talked about scoring efficiency though.


I would have given Ginobili the FMVP too. But to play devils advocate, part of the reason could have been Manu's scoring inconsistency game to game in those Finals. He balled out in games 1, 2, and 7. Was below average scoring in the middle 4 games.

Games 1, 2, 7: 25.3 PPG, 64.9% FG, 72.7% 3PT
Games 3-6: 13.8 PPG, 37.5% FG, 20% 3PT

Now Duncan's scoring efficiency was also inconsistent that series. But actual scoring plus his defense and rebounding was not. Still Ginobili certainly had a strong argument to win it.

[Arcadian]

Duncan led the team in points, rebounds, and blocks (actually led both teams in points and rebounds, with Ben Wallace leading in blocks)...that gets you the MVP every time.

[phxspurfan]

Robert Horry won that ‘ship.


He also won it for us in ‘07

[Chris Fall]

My pardon. But I was in fact specifically talking about scoring efficiency, as I alluded to it in the last paragraph with Duncan comparatively. I thought I had written it with Ginobili as well. I guess I didn't. Apologies. That is what I was specifically referring to though.

[Spurtacular]

????

People that don’t acknowledge Kobe’s greatness don’t know anything about basketball. Sure he was selfish and obsessed with being 23, but I have been a Spurs fan since the late 80s as a kid, and no player in the NBA was I more afraid of with the Spurs up by 20 than Kobe. He was the real deal and if he hadn’t been a Laker, he’d have gotten more respect on this site.

His "greatness" has already been over-acknowledged. Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, T-Mac could all have been multi-ring winners in similar circumstances. His efficiency numbers were never great. His defense was never anything. What's left? He had some big games and great athleticism, sure. He was a poor man's Michael Jordan at the end of the day. That's not nothing either; but it is what it is. And I'd say circa 04-08, come playoff time, there was no bigger playoff performer than Manu.

[TD 21]

He didn't deserve it, but he definitely had a case. Don't forget though, this was pre advanced stats and before the concept of anyone but the clear cut best player on the team winning it. Even if that's not the spirit of the award (which should be playoffs, as opposed to Finals MVP), I'm okay with that since that player is most responsible for being in that position to begin with.

What almost always gets overlooked with Duncan in that series, is 1) he played with sprained ankles, 2) he did so against an all time great defensive front line, 3) his ability to draw and pass out of double teams, defense and rebounding were crucial.

[Arcadian]

He didn't deserve it, but he definitely had a case. Don't forget though, this was pre advanced stats and before the concept of anyone but the clear cut best player on the team winning it. Even if that's not the spirit of the award (which should be playoffs, as opposed to Finals MVP), I'm okay with that since that player is most responsible for being in that position to begin with.

What almost always gets overlooked with Duncan in that series, is 1) he played with sprained ankles, 2) he did so against an all time great defensive front line, 3) his ability to draw and pass out of double teams, defense and rebounding were crucial.

Exactly. Much of Manu's success was due to defenses focusing on Duncan. And despite those ankles, he still outplayed Wallace & Wallace.

[Play Boban]

I’m so damn disgusted by how Manu was robbed in ‘05 tbh.

[DAF86]

Exactly. Much of Manu's success was due to defenses focusing on Duncan. And despite those ankles, he still outplayed Wallace & Wallace.

That's one of the biggest bullshit arguments that has ever been created and people just repeat it without thinking. And I'm not even talking about Manu in particular, I'm talking about any secondary option in the history of the sport.

How the fuck can Manu success come from the attention Duncan got when pretty much all of Manu's damage came from plays where he was the ball handler on pick and roll situations? C'mon sons, stop repeating outdated takes like mindless parrots and start thinking for yourselves.

And if you're thinking for yourselves, start thinking right. Bullshit XX century comments don't fly anymore on the year 2018.

[ducks]

Ducks was on record he wished he did

[Mikeanaro]

Stop this faggotry, Manu at 40 is a real man, Kobe at 35 was in a wheelchair.
Manu is a team player, not a ballhogger who is also the biggest choke artist in history.
Manu is better than Kobe, deal with it.

[Mikeanaro]

Exactly. Much of Manu's success was due to defenses focusing on Duncan. And despite those ankles, he still outplayed Wallace & Wallace.
And Duncan´s success at winning the FMVP was a hot Manu covering his bricks and making possible a championship, and a FMVP.
Much of Kobe´s success was everybody shitting their pants because Shaq was there playing Godzilla, nice logic.

[Arcadian]

That's one of the biggest bullshit arguments that has ever been created and people just repeat it without thinking. And I'm not even talking about Manu in particular, I'm talking about any secondary option in the history of the sport.

How the fuck can Manu success come from the attention Duncan got when pretty much all of Manu's damage came from plays where he was the ball handler on pick and roll situations? C'mon sons, stop repeating outdated takes like mindless parrots and start thinking for yourselves.

And if you're thinking for yourselves, start thinking right. Bullshit XX century comments don't fly anymore on the year 2018.

:lol Jesus...relax. I'm not saying that Manu was incapable of playing that way without Duncan, or that he was merely made to look good by Duncan. Manu was still a legitimate All-star and top 10 player in the league. But he definitely benefitted from playing with Duncan, the most selfless superstar ever, who anchored the team on both offense and defense. They both made each other better, no doubt. It goes both ways. My argument is simply that Duncan was the centerpiece of the team system, he made everything run as smoothly as it did, and he led the Finals in more statistical categories...so that's why he was MVP.

[DAF86]

:lol Jesus...relax. I'm not saying that Manu was incapable of playing that way without Duncan, or that he was merely made to look good by Duncan. Manu was still a legitimate All-star and top 10 player in the league. But he definitely benefitted from playing with Duncan, the most selfless superstar ever, who anchored the team on both offense and defense. They both made each other better, no doubt. It goes both ways. My argument is simply that Duncan was the centerpiece of the team system, he made everything run as smoothly as it did, and he led the Finals in more statistical categories...so that's why he was MVP.

No son, you said:

"Much of Manu's success was due to defenses focusing on Duncan"

And that's utter bullshit. I can assure that when the game was on the line and Manu had the ball on the top of they key, the main focus of the Pistons' defense was Manu, not Duncan. That's why Timmy got the chance to finish the game on regulation on a tip-in on game 5 after Ben Wallace left him all alone to try and stop a Manu drive.

What's with posters quickly changing their tune after I call them out on their original comments? It happened like 5 times today.

[Arcadian]

No son, you said:

"Much of Manu's success was due to defenses focusing on Duncan"

And that's utter bullshit. I can assure that when the game was on the line and Manu had the ball on the top of they key, the main focus of the Pistons' defense was Manu, not Duncan. That's why Timmy got the chance to finish the game on regulation on a tip-in on game 5 after Ben Wallace left him all alone to try and stop a Manu drive.

What's with posters quickly changing their tune after I call them out on their original comments? It happened like 5 times today.

That statement can be interpreted in different ways. You interpreted it in the most negative possible way. It needn't have the entailments you seem to think.

If it makes you feel better, I'd probably use different words to make my point. :)

[daslicer]

Only Manutards would be upset about Duncan winning Finals MVP.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Going 4down for Duncan in crunch time game 7 kinda sealed it for Timmy, tbh

[DAF86]

Going 4down for Duncan in crunch time game 7 kinda sealed it for Timmy, tbh

Manu had 11 pts on the 4th, Timmy 5. The game was tied after 3.

[weeks]

Duncan led the team in points, rebounds, and blocks (actually led both teams in points and rebounds, with Ben Wallace leading in blocks)...that gets you the MVP every time.

[DAF86]

One things is for sure: In today's NBA where Iggy wins FMVP over Curry, Manu would have won it.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Manu had 11 pts on the 4th, Timmy 5. The game was tied after 3.

Yeah I watched it live. We went 4 down in that 4th quarter in the clutch.

[DAF86]

Yeah I watched it live. We went 4 down in that 4th quarter in the clutch.

I watched live and then I watched like a thousands more times on the Spurs championship DVD. On the clutch it was Manu with the ball on his hands at the top of the key.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I watched live and then I watched like a thousands more times on the Spurs championship DVD. On the clutch it was Manu with the ball on his hands at the top of the key.

Okay we didn't go 4 down and the offense didn't revolve around Duncan. It's literally ST 2006 again.

[DAF86]

Okay we didn't go 4 down and the offense didn't revolve around Duncan. It's literally ST 2006 again.

I just re-watched the las 4 and a half minutes of the game which is when Manu came back to finish the game. From that point onwards untill the end of the game, the Spurs possessions went:

-Duncan 4 down: brick.
-Manu pick and roll: Wallace switches into Manu, Manu attacks, draws the double team and finds Duncan alone for a long two.
-Duncan 4 down: Manu 3.
-Manu pick and roll: draws foul.
-On the inbounds another Manu pick and roll: again draws double team and finds Duncan all alone. Brick.
-Duncan 4 down: miss.
-Duncan 4 down: foul. Makes 1 of 2.
-Manu at the top of the key: dagger.

Plays count: 4 for Tim, 4 for Manu. But yeah, it was all Duncan on the block. :rolleyes

[daledondale]

I know I've argued for this on other threads, tbh. What I recall being my main reason for the case is Manu #'s vs. TD #'s in Spurs wins. There was a definite chasm IIRC.

I think one poster (whom I don't recall) nailed it: Stern wasn't going to let Manu win after he embarrassed USA basketball in 2004.
Truth. I thought the same when tim was elected MVP.

And in fairness, he was going up against an absolute beast of a defensive front court. Well, Prince guarded Manu, and he was a tough defender. Manu put big dunks and layups over Wallace brothers too.

[diego]

I don't particularly care about the Fmvp, Duncan is an all time great and he was injured. Over the entire playoffs, he was 1a and Manu was 1b

It just sucks that Manu never got more recognition, he started and kicked ass that year then pop turned him into a bench player and a lot of people dismiss him for that.


And it became especially annoying after that when Parker and then kawhi did win fmvp for one good series, when manu's 05 run was superior to eithers fmvp playoff

Playoff runs with 24+ per, 4+ ws,. 250+ ws/48, 8.5+ bpm, 2.0+ vorp:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&type=advanced&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=Y&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=per&c1comp=gt&c1val=24&c2stat=ws&c2comp=gt&c2val=4&c3stat=ws_per_48&c3comp=gt&c3val=.25&c4stat=bpm&c4comp=gt&c4val=8.5&c5stat=vorp&c5comp=gt&c5val=2&order_by=ws

[DAF86]

Damn. Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Timmy and Manu. Exclusive list if I ever saw one. :wow

[Phenomanul]

Damn. Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Timmy and Manu. Exclusive list if I ever saw one. :wow

and no Kobe.

[DAF86]

and no Kobe.

How can you say that? Kobe is so much greater than Manu. You must be a homer argentinian fan. :madrun

[spurraider21]

How can you say that? Kobe is so much greater than Manu. You must be a homer argentinian fan. :madrun
lol defensive

[Phenomanul]

lol defensive

nope... it was pretty much stated verbatim earlier in the thread.

[diego]

Damn. Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Timmy and Manu. Exclusive list if I ever saw one. :wow

I probably put too many qualifiers, but if you compare manu's 05 run to Wade in 06, kobe in 09, dirk 11 it's a favorable comparison in terms of the above advance stats, but Manu never gets the recognition those guys do

[cd98]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-kobe-nba-finals-20160415-snap-htmlstory.html

Kobe Finals Runs.

[DAF86]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-kobe-nba-finals-20160415-snap-htmlstory.html

Kobe Finals Runs.

So? :lol

[diego]

The real problem is that finals mvp doesn't include the other 3 rounds. For many of the last 18 years or so the toughest matchups were before the finals

[cd98]

So? :lol

Mil just trying to find a run where Manu was on Kobe’s level.:lol

[DAF86]

Mil just trying to find a run where Manu was on Kobe’s level.:lol

We already show you that Manu's 05 run is on par with any Kobe run. In fact, even a bit better.